Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
also sprach Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004.11.04.0315 +0100]: Binary-only firmware must go into non-free Until you are ready to define what firmware is, I'd be careful with such statements. Are undocumented magic numbers firmware? Why should firmware go to non-free, it's not evaluated on the CPU that runs Debian. It's not as easy as black and white. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer, admin, user, and author `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system Invalid/expired PGP subkeys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Thu, Nov 04, 2004: Why should firmware go to non-free, it's not evaluated on the CPU that runs Debian. That was discussed intensively until last week in debian-legal@, I don't think it's useful to start the debate again with no new elements. Regards, -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
* Loïc Minier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041104 09:55]: martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Thu, Nov 04, 2004: Why should firmware go to non-free, it's not evaluated on the CPU that runs Debian. That was discussed intensively until last week in debian-legal@, I don't think it's useful to start the debate again with no new elements. Agreed. And the result of that discussion was that we don't agree. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
Andrew Pollock wrote: On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 10:30:10PM +, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader wrote: http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/4118 Kudos to Theo for OpenBSD getting out and poking the vendors. My concern is that for all their effort, and potential flow on benefits to Linux, it won't be considered good enough for Debian because of the current stance on firmware, and source code to it... Where did we get up to with that anyway, binary blobs are out, end of story? Currently the license of the acx100 firmware doesn't even allow to redistribute the firmware. I hope with this action Texas Instrument would at least give the right to redistribute it, so it could be included in non-free. For user having non-free in their /etc/apt/source.list, that would let them install the driver (which is licensed under GPL and already in Debian, section contrib) in one operation using apt-get. Currently they have to find the firmware on the CD given with the card, which is not very easy. Sometimes it is located in a .cab file, or in a .exe installer. A free firmware is better than a non-free firmware. But a non-free firmware is better than nothing. -- .''`. Aurelien Jarno GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux developer | Electrical Engineer `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `-people.debian.org/~aurel32 | www.aurel32.net
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/4118 The latest two GRs made this is not really relevant, because what OpenBSD is for is permission to redistribute the files which Debian now considers non-free anyway. -- ciao, Marco
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why should firmware go to non-free, it's not evaluated on the CPU that runs Debian. Because the policy revisionists changed the DFSG to make it apply to data as well. I hope that post-sarge somebody will prove this point by hunting fonts without source and similar evil threats to software freedom. -- ciao, Marco
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
also sprach Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004.11.04.1155 +0100]: I hope that post-sarge somebody will prove this point by hunting fonts without source and similar evil threats to software freedom. And images, and sound files, and ... -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer, admin, user, and author `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system Invalid/expired PGP subkeys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
On 2004-11-04 10:55:03 + Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because the policy revisionists changed the DFSG to make it apply to data as well. Marco d'Itri appears to prefer either breaking the social contract or not including any non-program software in the distribution. -- MJR/slefMy Opinion Only and not of any group I know
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041104 13:40]: On 2004-11-04 10:55:03 + Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because the policy revisionists changed the DFSG to make it apply to data as well. Marco d'Itri appears to prefer either breaking the social contract or not including any non-program software in the distribution. I would prefere if we could keep the heat level down. (Not particulary meant to you, but to all who are participating here.) Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
Re: Theo de Raadt On Firmware Activism
On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 01:52:10PM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote: * MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041104 13:40]: On 2004-11-04 10:55:03 + Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because the policy revisionists changed the DFSG to make it apply to data as well. Marco d'Itri appears to prefer either breaking the social contract or not including any non-program software in the distribution. I would prefere if we could keep the heat level down. (Not particulary meant to you, but to all who are participating here.) You can't reduce the heat level by asking. It just doesn't work that way. -- Glenn Maynard
