Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Sat, Jul 01, 2006 at 10:04:51AM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote: That's because contributor has different connotations to originator, and many people did not like the associations between themselves and Ubuntu that contributor conjured up. Exactly my point; there are differences of opinion within the Debian community on this point and others. Why didn't Ubuntu also make loud noises about how Linus or RMS are contributors to Ubuntu? There's a lot more of their work in there than a lot of Debian developers. I'm sure RMS would love to be associated with Ubuntu as a contributor. Debian has a much more direct and special relationship to Ubuntu than Linus or RMS; I'm sure you can recognize that. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Maintainers
On 6/30/06, Mohammed Adnène Trojette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a summary of the AM reports for the first semester of 2006. 36 applicants became maintainers. [snip] It's truly astounding to have such great expertise in Debian. Congratulations to all and great thanks to the mighty Debian Project...
Re: Debian Powered Logo
#include hallo.h * Julien BLACHE [Fri, Jun 30 2006, 09:10:06PM]: Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, What about creating a logo for a strategy similar to the Intel Inside campain? I imagine a simple circle of letters Debian Powered (in Debian-red) around the Swirl. Something like this ? http://people.debian.org/~jblache/debian-powered-1.png Something, yes. Maybe you could try to use the text only three times. Eduard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, http://people.debian.org/~jblache/debian-powered-1.png Something, yes. Maybe you could try to use the text only three times. Yes, this was a quick hack, I need to fiddle a bit more with Inkscape to get what I want :) JB. -- Julien BLACHE [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Debian, because code matters more Debian GNU/Linux Developer| http://www.debian.org Public key available on http://www.jblache.org - KeyID: F5D6 5169 GPG Fingerprint : 935A 79F1 C8B3 3521 FD62 7CC7 CD61 4FD7 F5D6 5169 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 10:04:51 +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote: I'm sure RMS would love to be associated with Ubuntu as a contributor. No, he would not. Ubuntu, as well as Debian, unfortunately, contain non-free software, and RMS has dedicated his life fighting against it. -- JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 02:20:12PM +0300, Yavor Doganov wrote: On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 10:04:51 +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote: I'm sure RMS would love to be associated with Ubuntu as a contributor. No, he would not. Ubuntu, as well as Debian, unfortunately, contain non-free software, and RMS has dedicated his life fighting against it. debian does not contains non-free software. non-free is not part of debian, it's only supported using the same tools. -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006, Pierre HABOUZIT wrote: debian does not contains non-free software. non-free is not part of debian, it's only supported using the same tools. The differences between main, contrib, and non-free are only in the conditions required for the software sources to be therein. Please don't put Debian on the slippery slope where non-free is not part of debian, we already repeated our support for non-free in a GR. http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 There is no line to draw here, let each Debian user decide what he needs and what he wants. -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Sun, Jul 02, 2006 at 11:03:19PM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote: Why didn't Ubuntu also make loud noises about how Linus or RMS are contributors to Ubuntu? There's a lot more of their work in there than a lot of Debian developers. I'm sure RMS would love to be associated with Ubuntu as a contributor. Debian has a much more direct and special relationship to Ubuntu than Linus or RMS; I'm sure you can recognize that. Though I note the Ubuntu home page is titled Welcome - Ubuntu Linux, rather than Ubuntu GNU or Ubuntu Debian... ;) (Of course, Linus, and Linux, have been much friendlier, cooperative and lenient with derivatives than either Debian or the FSF have been too) Cheers, aj signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Powered Logo
Yavor Doganov [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, he would not. Ubuntu, as well as Debian, unfortunately, contain non-free software, and RMS has dedicated his life fighting against it. Debian does not contain non-free software. Myself and others explained this to you and like-minded people *at great length* last month on https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion Please do not knowingly troll debian-project. Thanks in advance, -- MJR/slef Laux nur mia opinio: vidu http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Bv sekvu http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc?= Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't put Debian on the slippery slope where non-free is not part of debian, we already repeated our support for non-free in a GR. http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 Although it uses the infrastructure, I remind you: We have created contrib and non-free areas in our archive for these works. The packages in these areas are not part of the Debian system, although ^ they have been configured for use with Debian. -- http://www.debian.org/social_contract This is not a slippery slope attempt, but the current situation. Best wishes, -- MJR/slef Laux nur mia opinio: vidu http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Bv sekvu http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 14:21:53 +0100, MJ Ray wrote: Debian does not contain non-free software. Myself and others explained this to you and like-minded people *at great length* last month on https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion Please do not knowingly troll debian-project. I have no intention to troll at all. No matter how repeatedly this is explained, it is a fact. One can download non-free software from Debian FTP servers, the official mirrors, it is being built by the buildds, it is using the PTS/BTS, it's part of the release process, actually using all official Debian resources. Announcements for proprietary software also go on debian-devel-announce. And, as pointed by Loïc Minier, the Debian Project reaffirmed its support by that GR. If it was on non-free.debian.net and was not using Debian resources/infrastructure, I would agree with you. -- JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 03:06:26PM +0200, Loïc Minier wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006, Pierre HABOUZIT wrote: debian does not contains non-free software. non-free is not part of debian, it's only supported using the same tools. The differences between main, contrib, and non-free are only in the conditions required for the software sources to be therein. Please don't put Debian on the slippery slope where non-free is not part of debian, we already repeated our support for non-free in a GR. http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 There is no line to draw here, let each Debian user decide what he needs and what he wants. well, reread the GR more carefully. It does not says non-free is part of debian, but: debian will not drop non-free support. but non-free is NOT part of the Debian OS. this is what I've learned when I was in NM, also what is stated in many Fouding Documents. So basically Debian /OS/ does not contains non-free software at-all. The Debian /community/ provides some kind of support (BTS, mirrors/archive, packaging) to some non free softwares which are released at the same time as the Stable suite of Debian /OS/ but not /in/ Debian OS. I think you misread my mail that was only reminding that fact. I don't want to drop non-free support at all ! -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Powered Logo
Yavor Doganov [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have no intention to troll at all. [...] Then please stop. There is no non-free software in the debian OS (modulo serious bugs), regardless of what's held on some systems. Being told to stop trolling in [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not mean it's a good idea to start trolling on debian-project. If it was on non-free.debian.net and was not using Debian resources/infrastructure, I would agree with you. Using the infrastructure does not put it in Debian. Regards, -- MJR/slef Laux nur mia opinio: vidu http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Bv sekvu http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006, Yavor Doganov wrote: I have no intention to troll at all. No matter how repeatedly this is explained, it is a fact. One can download non-free software from Debian FTP servers, the official mirrors, it is being built by the buildds, it is using the PTS/BTS, it's part of the release process, actually using all official Debian resources. You proved non-free software is supported by the Debian infrastructure, and is supported in general for our users, along free software. Announcements for proprietary software also go on debian-devel-announce. As well as trolls on lesbians and Ubuntu. Beside, it seems the freeness of Debian is discussed on FSF lists too. :) And, as pointed by Loïc Minier, the Debian Project reaffirmed its support by that GR. Yes, the support of non-free was reaffirmed, but it was not included. It is correct to say that non-free is not part of Debian, as the social contract affirms. If it was on non-free.debian.net and was not using Debian resources/infrastructure, I would agree with you. Why do you have to put the Debian infrastructure and the Debian OS in the same bag? Can't one build free software under a system which holds non-free files? This really looks like a troll. -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 16:20:27 +0200, Loïc Minier wrote: I'm obviously wrong, mea maxima culpa. I always considered I would offer as good a support as I could for non-free software in Debian, and with time I thought the distinction was here for the end-users, but after re-reading the social contract as pointed out by MJ Ray, it's clear that non-free is excluded from Debian. Putting a note on the shop We don't sell poison, it's not part of our articles' list does not actually mean that you don't when poison is clearly available among other goods. Anyway, we'll never reach any agreement and it's pointless to discuss, so I'll stop. -- JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
Yavor Doganov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Putting a note on the shop We don't sell poison, it's not part of our articles' list does not actually mean that you don't when poison is clearly available among other goods. That's not at all similar to debian. More like MacD's having rat poison in their buildings does not mean that BigMacs contain rat poison (modulo serious bugs). I look forward to you arguing otherwise and the subsequent MacLibel2.0. Anyway, we'll never reach any agreement and it's pointless to discuss, so I'll stop. Thank you. -- MJR/slef Laux nur mia opinio: vidu http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Bv sekvu http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 10:17:25PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Sun, Jul 02, 2006 at 11:03:19PM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote: Debian has a much more direct and special relationship to Ubuntu than Linus or RMS; I'm sure you can recognize that. Though I note the Ubuntu home page is titled Welcome - Ubuntu Linux, rather than Ubuntu GNU or Ubuntu Debian... ;) That's true, though you'll notice that the rest of the site does not use that terminology. As for the use of Linux in the tagline, that is the most widely recognized way to refer to an operating system which uses the Linux kernel, and indeed, free software systems in general are best known by that name. I'm not going to argue the technical or political correctess of that terminology, but it's a word that people know. (and with that, I think this has gotten completely off-topic for a Debian list and the thread should end here) -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 02:25:52PM +0200, Pierre HABOUZIT wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 02:20:12PM +0300, Yavor Doganov wrote: No, he would not. Ubuntu, as well as Debian, unfortunately, contain non-free software, and RMS has dedicated his life fighting against it. debian does not contains non-free software. non-free is not part of debian, it's only supported using the same tools. This is the wrong argument--although it's true, it also leads to endless flamewars. The correct argument is that the GNU project actually supports non-free software as well! The only difference is that the FSF (mostly) limits themselves to supporting running Free software on top of non-free software, while we (mostly) limit ourselves to supporting running non-free software on top of Free software. The GNU Project goes to great pains to ensure that their software runs well on top of non-free software, such as Windows, AIX and HPUX. For them to try to claim the moral high ground over Debian is rank hypocrisy. Neither project encourages the use of non-free software, though. Both, in fact, encourage their users to use Free software. For me, that's pretty much the bottom line, so I support both projects. -- Chris Waters | Pneumonoultra-osis is too long [EMAIL PROTECTED] | microscopicsilico-to fit into a single or [EMAIL PROTECTED] | volcaniconi- standalone haiku -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Powered Logo
This one time, at band camp, Yavor Doganov said: On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 10:04:51 +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote: I'm sure RMS would love to be associated with Ubuntu as a contributor. No, he would not. Ubuntu, as well as Debian, unfortunately, contain non-free software, and RMS has dedicated his life fighting against it. Hence the GFDL. /me ducks and runs for cover ... -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
