Re: Explications needed...
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:42:01PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:29:41PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:03:35PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Aurelien mailed debian-arm, went to #debian-arm, had no response. He then warn about his intention [1] to run qemu-based autobuilders to fill the gap due to broken arm buildds. He did that on the open, and got ... zero answers. He wrote in his blog about setting up an emulated arm buildd, but didn't explicitely say he'd upload .debs with it (though one could maybe read that between the lines). that does still not explains why he has not been contacted, why the arm buildd admins have been so quick to ban Aureliens uploads and not fixing the buildds (as Aurélien did that __because__ he got 0 answers), etc... I'm sorry, but I don't buy the If you have 0 answer, then you can't say that your coordination failed argument, that's pure (sorry) crap. That would mean that any delegate that becomes silent can block the whole release cycle by just becoming /dev/null,... Hi, if there is a blockage of an arch because of buildd failures and the buildd maintainer, etc. are non-responsive, what is the hierarchy of who to contact? buildd admin, then tech commtte, then ftpmaster, then RM, then DPL? cheers, Kev ps. it seems Aurelien was 'routing around a problem' with no malicious intension which runs contrary to the word 'rogue' which was used to describe his actions. -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com | | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: pgp.mit.edu | my NPO: cfsg.org | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Explications needed...
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 06:17:20PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: [this discussion is off-topic on -devel, please follow-up on -project] On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:51:55PM +0100, Luk Claes wrote: How did Aurelien get wanna-build access for his buildd He didn't, it's a rogue autobuilder. Which is the reason it got blacklisted. or did he not ask for it... He did apparently, but did not get a response and decided to act anyway. Did somebody from the release team say that the arm autobuilder is causing trouble to the release, and that buildd maintenance needs to get addressed? No. ARM was in no danger of being dropped from the release due to this, and the only buildd problem I've seen identified in this was a broken libtasn1-3 package in netwinder's chroot -- if this was causing any problems for the release team, I at least wasn't aware of it. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explications needed...
Steve Langasek a écrit : On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 06:17:20PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: [this discussion is off-topic on -devel, please follow-up on -project] On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:51:55PM +0100, Luk Claes wrote: How did Aurelien get wanna-build access for his buildd He didn't, it's a rogue autobuilder. Which is the reason it got blacklisted. or did he not ask for it... He did apparently, but did not get a response and decided to act anyway. Did somebody from the release team say that the arm autobuilder is causing trouble to the release, and that buildd maintenance needs to get addressed? No. ARM was in no danger of being dropped from the release due to this, and the only buildd problem I've seen identified in this was a broken libtasn1-3 package in netwinder's chroot -- if this was causing any problems for the release team, I at least wasn't aware of it. All started with this email: http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2006/08/msg00151.html ARM was *in danger*, a lot of stuff (java, xulrunner, mono, ...) were not working correctly. People worked hard to fix that, but it was very difficult to get packages depending on fixed stuff to get requeued. Also a lot of arch-specific compile errors were actually due to build daemon problems. I have decided to help the ARM port at that time, and I am building around 20 packages per week on my NSLU2 since this moment (the glibc being frozen, I don't have test build to do). It takes me a lot of time, so I decided to automate the process with build daemons. We will see the evolution of the ARM port without those uploads. I know at least two packages with RC bugs which won't move to testing because one of the ARM build daemon have (recurrent) problems (and it's not netwinder nor elara). And this time I won't be able to build them by hand. -- .''`. Aurelien Jarno | GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73 : :' : Debian developer | Electrical Engineer `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `-people.debian.org/~aurel32 | www.aurel32.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please appoint one new person to the DSA Team
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 04:06:56PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: I would greatly appreciate it if people would help the process by supporting the efforts of the DSA team consistently rather than heaping praise on them when they fix compromises and scorn on them the rest of the time. It would also be helpful if there were people who are able to commit time to do significant but boring tasks to help DSA, expecting neither praise, acknowledgement or, most importantly, any additional rights/priveleges in return. If that's you please mail me privately, probably at [EMAIL PROTECTED] As I suggested in my DPL platform, having someone reading debian-admin who has no DSA priviledge but handle communication issues could help (by providing status and ETA, answering already asked questions, etc.) without interfering with the current DSA work. Cheers, -- Bill. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Imagine a large red swirl here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please appoint one new person to the DSA Team
* Bill Allombert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061221 15:12]: As I suggested in my DPL platform, having someone reading debian-admin who has no DSA priviledge but handle communication issues could help (by providing status and ETA, answering already asked questions, etc.) without interfering with the current DSA work. ironyoh, that is a new thought!/irony bill, this idea was investigated in detail and disregarded, as that person would basicly have the job to nag the people doing the job without being able to do any productive work. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please appoint one new person to the DSA Team
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 04:01:47PM +0100, Andreas Schuldei wrote: * Bill Allombert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061221 15:12]: As I suggested in my DPL platform, having someone reading debian-admin who has no DSA priviledge but handle communication issues could help (by providing status and ETA, answering already asked questions, etc.) without interfering with the current DSA work. ironyoh, that is a new thought!/irony I did claim the opposite. bill, this idea was investigated in detail and disregarded, as I was not aware of that. Maybe the forum were that discussion occured also need someone to handle communication issues ? that person would basicly have the job to nag the people doing the job without being able to do any productive work. Only if you do not regard communicating as productive work. If three people ask the same thing and one DSA answer the first time, this person will be able to answer the two next time. Maybe this person will reach a higher level of clue than the average developer and be able to answer some other times without nagging the DSA. Anyway it would be better than doing nothing. Cheers, Bill. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please appoint one new person to the DSA Team
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 04:06:56PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 08:38:33PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: Would you, as DPL, please try to address the original issue? Martin, Branden and myself have all been trying to address the original issue as DPL; messages like the one beginning this thread don't help, and setting up unofficial autobuilders when you can't work out how to get an official one accepted are seriously counterproductive. There's not much to work out, really. The procedure is set the host up, send mail with SSH key, IP address, and similar information to the right person, cross fingers, and hopefully it'll be accepted sometime, otherwise don't expect a reply. While this works, I cannot say that it's never been frustrating to me either, and at times I myself have also been _very_ tempted to just bypass the official procedure and install some hack so that the box would at least build packages. Especially at times when we're backlogged---and, surprise, I don't often set up a box when we're _not_ backlogged. Occasionally, this type of frustration was also at the root of Ingo's Serious problems with mr Troup mail[1]. There has been an offer for an arm buildd host that outspeeds all four current arm buildd machines together since a few _months_. This has been told to a number of people involved with the arm autobuilders, including James; yet nothing has been done with them so far, and there are outstanding problems with arm as a result. I don't think such delays, with no explanation whatsoever, are acceptable behaviour (they _would_ be acceptable behaviour if there was an explanation; but so far I've seen none). I can honestly understand that Aurelien gets frustrated when nothing happens. I would greatly appreciate it if people would help the process by supporting the efforts of the DSA team consistently rather than heaping praise on them when they fix compromises and scorn on them the rest of the time. I would greatly appreciate it if people in the DSA team would understand that communication is 75% of their job. I think they would buy themselves a whole lot of goodwill if they would just let people know why there are delays sometimes. It would also be helpful if there were people who are able to commit time to do significant but boring tasks to help DSA, expecting neither praise, acknowledgement or, most importantly, any additional rights/priveleges in return. It would also be helpful if people would get the ability to do more stuff themselves. I'm not saying you should give everyone root everywhere, but, e.g., if most of the work I do for Debian involves m68k buildd maintenance (check), it's strange that I don't get to have access to P-a-s or wanna-build.debian.org[2]. If that's you please mail me privately, probably at [EMAIL PROTECTED] It might be me, but before I say so I'd appreciate a bit more details on what, exactly, these 'significant but boring' tasks are. [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2004/02/msg8.html [2] I've been literally told by Ryan that that won't happen (when I asked for the latter, not the former) -- Lo-lan-do Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Rogue autobuilders (was: Re: New ARM autobuilders)
On Wednesday 20 December 2006 09:19, Michael Banck wrote: On December 17th, 2006, Aurelien Jarno wrote on his blog: As [EMAIL PROTECTED] is everything but responsive (well if you can assign a level of responsiveness to /dev/null), I have decided to act. I have installed QEMU on an 8-way Opteron machine, and created 8 emulated ARM machines, which 256MB of RAM and 10GB of disk for each, all running buildd + sbuild. Altogether those 8 emulated ARM machines should be faster than all the Debian ARM build daemons. I have setup a wanna-build database on my server. During the day it has built around 100 packages. I don't think this is the proper way; [...] Right, the proper way is for the appropriate people (DPL, DSAs, buildd infrastructure people, whoever can actually DO something about it) to say, awesome, Aurelien! Thanks for taking some initiative, setting this up, and providing both your time and hardware to *vastly* expand the power of the ARM buildds! Now, let's integrate that into the regular buildd system by [doing some productive action ...] So, Mr. DPL -- if this is *not* happening because no one is communicating, or whatever, can you please take some responsibility here? Help communication, assign more delegates, or work this yourself? -- Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094 0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2 pgp1LD3QK6cHg.pgp Description: PGP signature
