Re: Developer Status

2008-10-22 Thread Aurelien Jarno
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:33:28PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
 Developer Status
 
 
 Summary of this post
 
   Discussions in the past have made it clear that the current
   definition of Debian Developer (AKA someone who is a member of the
   Debian project) should be modified and made more flexible.  There
   have been attempts in the past to do something similar, notably
   Debian Maintainers (DM) [GR-DM], and to some extent
   debian-community.org [D-C], but these have only addressed parts of
   the whole issue.
 
   We plan to integrate DM more closely into the NM process/system

Could you please define We.

   while keeping the spirit of easing entry into Debian for newcomers.
   At the same time we add a separate track for less-technical
   contributors.

Is it a start of a discussion? A new policy?

-- 
  .''`.  Aurelien Jarno | GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73
 : :' :  Debian developer   | Electrical Engineer
 `. `'   [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   `-people.debian.org/~aurel32 | www.aurel32.net


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Re: Developer Status

2008-10-22 Thread Joerg Jaspert

 Developer Status
 

And I should probably have written this inside the mail itself, but the
most obvious things are those you forget.

This was initially written by me, then discussed within DAM (so take
us two for we)  and then discussed with DSA, FTPMaster,
Keyring-Maint, Secretary, FrontDesk and the DPL.

-- 
bye, Joerg
 Thats all.
 Just a few questions about your package and then we got it and you will
 be in DAMINATION :).
I have no idea what DAMINATION is but it sounds cool. Let's get going.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Developer Status

2008-10-22 Thread Clint Adams
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:10:29AM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
 This was initially written by me, then discussed within DAM (so take
 us two for we)  and then discussed with DSA, FTPMaster,
 Keyring-Maint, Secretary, FrontDesk and the DPL.

I am disappointed in all of these people.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Developer Status

2008-10-22 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:33:28PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert a écrit :
 
   We plan to integrate DM more closely into the NM process/system
   while keeping the spirit of easing entry into Debian for newcomers.
   At the same time we add a separate track for less-technical
   contributors.

Hi Joerg,

can't we defer this discussion to After The Release?

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Developer Status

2008-10-22 Thread Felipe Sateler
Joerg Jaspert wrote:

 Now let us describe the way the account status is meant to be handled
 in future.

This mail has mixed future and present tense. Have these changes already been
implemented, or are planned?

 
 A new user can start out in two ways depending on their personal
 preference. The first is the non-technical way:
 
 Debian Contributor
 --
 A DC is someone that has a strong relation with Debian through the work
 they are doing for/around Debian. Possible examples are translators and
 documentation writers.
 
 DC have to pass the ID check, agree to the Social Contract/DFSG and have
 successfully answered a set of questions[DCDMQ] similar to the ones used
 in the current first PP step.[TEMPL]

Basically, they need to pass the ID check, agree to the Social Contract/DFSG and
have successfully answered a set of questions similar to the ones used
in the current first PP step, to keep doing the same thing they have been doing
all this time.


 The second way is the technical one:
 
 Debian Maintainer
 -
 A DM has the same strong relation with Debian a DC has, but additionally
 wants to maintain a limited set of packages without the help of a sponsor.
 
 A DM has to pass the same checks a DC has and very few questions from the
 TS part[DCDMQ].
 
 A (very) small TS basically, the most important TS questions for them.
 
 They are allowed to upload their own (source) package. The allowed list
 of (source) packages to upload can be edited by any member of the NM
 committee[NMC], who will do a package check before they add new packages
 to the DM's list.
 In contrast to current DM this is based on source packages and allows
 uploads of new binary components, which have to pass NEW, too.
 
 While, strictly speaking, this increases the barrier to get DM compared
 to the current implementation of DM, we do not think it is an
 unreasonable or too high level. Anyone who is able to get a package put
 together in a lintian clean way will be able to get DM without much
 effort or time used.

So this basically requires DMs to do the (somewhat reduced) PP and TS
questions, and I don't see the real reason for this. The idea behind DMs is to
maintain a package one knows how to maintain. The only reason I can see here is
that DDs are not being trusted in their advocations, which is a far worse
problem that won't get solved by this.


 Those two classes are the initial set in which every NM will end
 up. After six months as DC or DM one might chose to become a
 Debian Member or Debian Developer. This
  - ensures that the interest in Debian isn't short-term.

Why do people keep thinking this is a good thing?

  - enables them to learn more about the workings in Debian and generally
helps them for the next step.

They should be doing this on their own, and not force an arbitrary limit on
them. What if they did this _before_ applying for DD/DME/DM/DC status?

  - leaves everyone the option to stay DC or DM, if they do not want/need
more rights.
 
 
 After the 6 months time in Debian Contributor/Maintainer are passed,
 applicants can apply to get Debian Developer status. There are now 2
 different classes of DD status available, one with and one without
 upload rights. To not add confusion we selected to name them Debian
 member (no upload rights) and Debian Developer (upload rights).
 Both are project members, i.e. with voting and all other constitutional
 rights, the term classes does not indicate any kind of first or
 second level membership.

While you might not intend that, it still does. DDs would be DMEs + general
upload rights, which is clearly a DME  DD relationship.

 
 
 Changes to existing Debian Developers
 -
 No changes are done to existing Debian Developers, until they ask for
 it. If you want to drop down to DME, no matter if you want to keep a few
 packages maintained like a DM does, drop the NM-Committee a mail.

You say there is no firs or second class, but DDs would drop _down_ to DMEs.


This all smells like a whole lot of bureocracy for no gain to me.


-- 

  Felipe Sateler


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]