Re: Fresh "academic paper" with "Debian affiliation"
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> Note that recently the -www team has started uniforming things on that
> front, at least for what concerns our web presence. Given that "Debian
> GNU/Linux" is not necessarily correct anymore (we have several kernels…,
> the choice, AFAIU, is to use solely "Debian" when details don't matter,
> and to list flavors (Debian GNU/Linux, GNU/kFreeBSD, GNU/Hurd) when they
> do. Which totally makes sense.
thanks -- full ACK on my side. Next paper should reflect that (this
time we primarily referred Debian as "Debian OS" in the paper).
> I think that to refer to Debian as an institution, we should
> consistently use "Debian Project". We do that in legal-ish contexts
> ("signed/represented by foo, on behalf of the Debian Project"). I think
> we --- actually, you :-) --- should do the same for scientific
> publications.
we --- me and Michael --- already have done that correctly then
(even the capitalization was correct in the affiliation line ;-) ).
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Yaroslav O. Halchenko
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Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755
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Re: Fresh "academic paper" with "Debian affiliation"
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 09:22:36PM -0400, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
> The discussion on what Debian is (Debian Linux, Debian GNU/Linux,
> Debian OS, etc) comes back from time to time, but imho it is
> irrelevant here
Note that recently the -www team has started uniforming things on that
front, at least for what concerns our web presence. Given that "Debian
GNU/Linux" is not necessarily correct anymore (we have several kernels…,
the choice, AFAIU, is to use solely "Debian" when details don't matter,
and to list flavors (Debian GNU/Linux, GNU/kFreeBSD, GNU/Hurd) when they
do. Which totally makes sense.
> since those all refer to the product not the "institution" we should
> associate ourselves with. www.debian.org refers to the "Debian
> project" while talking about Debian as an institution, and seems to be
> more appropriate. Or ... ?
I think that to refer to Debian as an institution, we should
consistently use "Debian Project". We do that in legal-ish contexts
("signed/represented by foo, on behalf of the Debian Project"). I think
we --- actually, you :-) --- should do the same for scientific
publications.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} . o .
Maître de conférences .. http://upsilon.cc/zack .. . . o
Debian Project Leader... @zack on identi.ca ...o o o
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »
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Re: Hijacking packages for fun and profit
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 05:52:54PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: > Based on some of the *heated* discussions that have happened on the > lists recently, I've organised a DebConf BoF session so we can > (hopefully) have a productive session on the topic of package > maintenance and how to hand over / take over packages. Thank you. Even though there are some actions which are definitely legitimate as per policy and recommendations in the devref, having a senior developer spell out ideas and discuss it with several developers lends it a further air of legitimacy, and significantly reduces inhibition and fear of being reprimanded. I shall be following this video closely. Thank you for conducting this. Kumar -- On a normal ascii line, the only safe condition to detect is a 'BREAK' - everything else having been assigned functions by Gnu EMACS. -- Tarl Neustaedter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120703014629.ga5...@bluemoon.alumni.iitm.ac.in
Re: Fresh "academic paper" with "Debian affiliation"
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, Charles Plessy wrote: > > This might be the first academic paper where any DD had listed Debian > > project among affiliations. > Actually not :) > http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2105/11/S12/S5 > Community-driven computational biology with Debian Linux > >...< > 2 Debian Linux ah -- we still remain then the first listing "Debian PROJECT" ;) but now this begs the question -- what should be the canonical affiliation we should use? The discussion on what Debian is (Debian Linux, Debian GNU/Linux, Debian OS, etc) comes back from time to time, but imho it is irrelevant here since those all refer to the product not the "institution" we should associate ourselves with. www.debian.org refers to the "Debian project" while talking about Debian as an institution, and seems to be more appropriate. Or ... ? -- Yaroslav O. Halchenko Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755 Phone: +1 (603) 646-9834 Fax: +1 (603) 646-1419 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120703012236.ge5...@onerussian.com
Re: Hijacking packages for fun and profit
Hi, On Montag, 2. Juli 2012, Gergely Nagy wrote: > Will there be a video feed of this? I'd love to hear it at least (and > perhaps participate via IRC or something, if someone's willing to > proxy). everything scheduled (more than 24h in advance) during DebConf in the two main talkrooms shall be video'ed...! :-) cheers, Holger -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201207021335.33270.hol...@layer-acht.org
Re: Debian 7
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 11:33:45AM -0600, Paul Wise wrote: > On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Nik K wrote: > > I'm fed up with Ubuntu and it can go and fuck itself. > > I think this way of thinking is not helpful to anyone, neither you, > me, Debian or Ubuntu. Ubuntu, like Debian or any other project, makes > decisions according to the priorities and goals of the people involved > and doing work. That's not actually entirely true. Ubuntu does consider the needs of the community, yes, but in the end there's only the SABDFL who makes final decisions. This has resulted in (amongst other things) the decision to move away from Gnome as the default user interface. Having said that, I certainly agree with you that constructive comments, and helping test things, are a much more useful way of improving the future than swear words. -- The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by the following formula: pi zz a -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120702185621.ge23...@grep.be
Re: RFC - Changing current policy of debian.net entries
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:25:54AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 06:18:15PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > I don't think that's the best way forward. > > > I see three common uses of the debian.net namespace: > > - As a testing playground for services which intend to eventually be > > integrated into debian.org. > > - People who use it as some sort of personal playground or personal mail > > domain or similar things. I'm not sure this should be allowed at all > > (and most people would seem to agree), but it is happening. > > - As a name for a default setting in a webbrowser (default home page), > > collaboration tool (e.g., gobby could default to gobby.debian.net), > > default server for a Debian-packaged game (tetrinet.debian.net), > > download URL for installer packages in non-free (I believe > > flashplugin-nonfree uses a debian.net URL to download the flash > > plugin, but could be mistaken), or similar things. > > > Calling stuff in the first category in "incubation" stage would seem to > > be reasonable, as would banning the second category. > > I don't think there's anything at all reasonable about banning the second > category. This is historically a large part of what the debian.net domain > was *for*. It's a perk of being a member of the Debian project, which hurts > no one. We should be happy that developers are proud enough of being > members of Debian to advertise it in their domain usage, instead of trying > to suppress the usage for fear that it will tarnish Debian's reputation. Right. Let me clarify: I'm not advocating banning that use of the debian.net domain, but I'm not strictly opposed to it either if it's decided that that's what needs to be done. In other words, banning that is something that, IMO, is open to discussion. The third category isn't, though. > If there are uses of the .debian.net domain that reflect poorly on Debian, > let those be taken up with the individuals responsible. I think it's silly > to try to impose a policy on this domain because end users can't keep the > domains straight. As long as developers are taking appropriate care not to > confuse our users about the status, I don't see the problem; and if > developers aren't taking appropriate care, that should be dealt with on a > case-by-case basis - escalating to the DAM if necessary. That's probably a more reasonable approach than just banning outright, indeed. > > But I don't think running a game server as a service to Debian users is > > something DSA should do (so it's not strictly in "incubation"), nor that > > it should be considered "bad" usage of the debian.net domain; and changing > > those to include a DD name in the URL would require an update of a package > > in stable if the person who used to maintain it is now no longer > > interested in running that service, the avoidance of which probably being > > the main reason why you'd want to be using a debian.net URL. > > Yes. Moving either pioneers.debian.net or pdx.debian.net to a > login-specific subdomain would defeat the purpose of having them at all. Exactly. -- The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by the following formula: pi zz a -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120702185318.gd23...@grep.be
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf travel sponsorship (was: Re: Budget status - travel sponsorship)
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 05:04:18PM -0400, Richard Darst wrote: > On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 05:45:53PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 03:35:20AM -0400, Richard Darst wrote: > > > [debconf-surplus] For readers of -project, here's what this means: > > > Sponsors slowly pledge money over the spring, and we usually are in a > > > panic about "oh no, we have no money to afford anything". But as time > > > goes on, things get together. We get a few more sponsors. We find > > > local supporters who will sponsor things locally, or negotiate better > > > discounts, or find cheaper venues. A major source of extra money is > > > when many people don't reconfirm, or don't show up, saving us a lot on > > > accommodation costs. > > > > It's probably not unreasonable to wonder why many people do not > > reconfirm. Is it because they don't know yet whether they'll be > > sponsored? If that's the case, then you're now basically saying "most of > > the money we'll be using to ensure no sponsored attendee will cancel is > > coming from the sponsored attendees who cancel"; that logic is somewhat > > flawed. > > Well... > > Food+accom sponsorship is decided early, I think around the > beginning of June this year. It is generally pretty easy to get - > unless you are not related to free software, you'll get it. There is > really no significant uncertainty about this. > > Travel sponsorship is harder to get, and that is what was very > last-minute this year. But the team is aware of that, and keeps track > of who hasn't reconfirmed and is waiting for it, who might be able to > reconfirm if they got it. > > However, the thing about getting lots of extra money from people who > don't reconfirm is from accom-sponsored-people. Right, that explains it. In that case, please just forget what I said :-) -- The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by the following formula: pi zz a -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120702184919.gc23...@grep.be
Re: Hijacking packages for fun and profit
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 07:37:21PM +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote: >Steve McIntyre writes: > >> Hi folks, >> >> Based on some of the *heated* discussions that have happened on the >> lists recently, I've organised a DebConf BoF session so we can >> (hopefully) have a productive session on the topic of package >> maintenance and how to hand over / take over packages. >> >> https://penta.debconf.org/penta/schedule/dc12/event/926.en.html > >Will there be a video feed of this? I'd love to hear it at least (and >perhaps participate via IRC or something, if someone's willing to >proxy). I expect so, yes. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "When C++ is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb." -- Steven M. Haflich -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120702181539.gj4...@einval.com
Re: Hijacking packages for fun and profit
Steve McIntyre writes: > Hi folks, > > Based on some of the *heated* discussions that have happened on the > lists recently, I've organised a DebConf BoF session so we can > (hopefully) have a productive session on the topic of package > maintenance and how to hand over / take over packages. > > https://penta.debconf.org/penta/schedule/dc12/event/926.en.html Will there be a video feed of this? I'd love to hear it at least (and perhaps participate via IRC or something, if someone's willing to proxy). -- |8] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87lij2awtq@luthien.mhp
Re: Debian 7
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Nik K wrote: > Debian 5 was awesome. It could be used out of the box. Debian 6 seems like > an alpha. You can't do anything out of the box. I couldn't even install > anything because there was no where obvious to do so, and I'm not going to > hunt around for something over a stupid reason. I suggest that you file constructive bug reports so that the specific issues you have found can be fixed in Debian 7 (wheezy) if they haven't already been fixed. Some links: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting > Please make Debian 7 like Debian 5. I would suggest you install Debian 7 on a spare machine or in a virtual machine to try it out and see if it meets your needs. An alpha of the install media has been released: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2012/20120513 http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ > I'm fed up with Ubuntu and it can go and fuck itself. I think this way of thinking is not helpful to anyone, neither you, me, Debian or Ubuntu. Ubuntu, like Debian or any other project, makes decisions according to the priorities and goals of the people involved and doing work. Like Debian or any open project you are free to join Ubuntu and do work towards achieving your own goals within the project. In addition, please don't post profanity or non-constructive mails: http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6ETqe_wuB-=KyDpyNyT8zukd=mvkzgxtjz9t1hyv4u...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#679956: please document the debian.net namespace and its entries
Package: www.debian.org
Severity: wishlist
[ full quote of the -project post at
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2012/06/msg00159.html for the
bug report records ]
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 02:22:00AM +0100, Stuart Prescott wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> > - I've already discussed in a related thread of a few months ago how I
> > think the current distinction between debian.net and debian.org should
> > be documented, incidentally resolving other visibility problems of
> > those services. Not that the dnsZoneEntry LDAP entry is publicly
> > available, we should have an automated generated index of debian.net
> > services, with pointers to the responsible DD. I think it'd be a good
> > idea to have such index live at http://www.debian.net together with an
> > explanation of the debian.net/.org distinction. I don't think *this
> > part* of the confusion is enough to justify changes of the current
> > scheme (but see below for another possible reason).
> >
> > Stuart Prescott (Cc:-ed) has already drafted an implementation of the
> > index generation and I've encouraged him to submit it as a wishlist
> > bug report + patch to the -www team a few weeks ago. Stuart: any news
> > on that front? (I can't check if the bug report is on right now due to
> > shaky mobile phone connection.)
>
> I discussed my draft implementation in #debian-www a week or so ago. For
> those who are curious, the debian.net list and page I put together can be
> viewed at:
>
> http://ircbots.debian.net/misc/debiandotnet
>
> (that URL just being a tmpdir on a machine with the right CSS and image
> files in the right places for the debian theme)
>
> The reaction from #debian-www was underwhelming.
>
> * there was a suggestion to move this somewhere under /devel instead. That's
> easy to do, but these are resources for both users and developers, so that
> doesn't necessarily improve things.
>
> * there was a suggestion that DSA should generate this directly and include
> it on db.debian.org. I've not talked to DSA about this idea but would
> happily help them do that if they wanted.
>
> * the demo page includes the "description" from the existing wiki page [1]
> and a description of the domain seems like a sensible thing to have. Any TXT
> records that have been defined in LDAP for a domain are also used for the
> descriptions. Since TXT records can't be defined for CNAME entries, I can't
> see a good way of allowing the domain owner of a CNAME to provide or update
> a description, unless LDAP were to carry TXT records for CNAMEs for
> documentation purposes but ignore them when generating the zone file. [2]
>
> And that's where everything ground to a halt. Suggestions welcome.
>
> [1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains
>
> [2] Previous suggestions in this thread to use TXT records to find out
> who owns the domain (dig +short -ttxt love.debian.net) also fail for
> records that are CNAME records rather than A records for example, "dig
> +short -ttxt x.debian.net". 50% of all the debian.net records are
> CNAME not A so this method works half the time... Maybe we should
> publish a list of domain owners on the web?
I wouldn't worry too much about "underwhelming" feedback, maybe people
were just busy, not around or, legitimately, have different views on how
to implement this. But this is also why it is important to document the
state of this in a more stable place, and why I'm now submitting a bug.
I think we should have an official place that both documents what the
*.debian.net namespace is for (from the user POV) and provides an
automatically generated list of entries, together with the respective
contact points. AFAICT your implementation does exactly that: many
thanks for that! Stuart, can you please followup to the buglog attaching
your code as a patch?
About where to host the index, I think it belongs to some www.d.o page
and the -www team is best suited to suggest where. I'm not sure how they
handle pages that should be periodically re-generated as this one, but I
suspect they have a way to do so. Any hint?
Then, I've suggested in the past to have http://www.debian.net host such
a page, instead of the current redirection to www.d.o. I'm not sure
about what are DSA/-www preferences on this matter, hence my Cc. Either
way, having the page somewhere under www.d.o would be a first step. If
we also want to host it at www.d.n as I suggest, we can simply make that
a redirect to the specific www.d.o page.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} . o .
Maître de conférences .. http://upsilon.cc/zack .. . . o
Debian Project Leader... @zack on identi.ca ...o o o
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »
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Hijacking packages for fun and profit
Hi folks, Based on some of the *heated* discussions that have happened on the lists recently, I've organised a DebConf BoF session so we can (hopefully) have a productive session on the topic of package maintenance and how to hand over / take over packages. https://penta.debconf.org/penta/schedule/dc12/event/926.en.html Thursday 12th July, 11:00 local time (17:00 UTC) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "We're the technical experts. We were hired so that management could ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs." -- Mike Andrews -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120702165254.gd12...@einval.com
Re: More feedback
Nik K > Also, please make Debian 7 like Debian 5 in the way where there is a > network-manager applet. Well, there's at least two: network-manager and wicd. Documentation for those two is in the usual places (Help Viewer, man at the command line, and so on). Documentation for how to configure networking is currently in the manual "Chapter 5, Network setup" at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html or if you're not online (because networking needs configuring...), I think there's an equivalent page in the debian-reference package. I suspect something went a bit wrong with your upgrade (or was it a fresh installation?). Debian 6 works fine for me, most of the time. Finally, you probably should explain the problem to debian-user@, rather than debian-project@, if you'd like help. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html might give some tips on what to put in the email to get the best replies. Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/e1sleiv-0007zy...@petrol.towers.org.uk
