Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
Holger Levsen writes (Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13): The anonymous donations we got offered were rejected (by us) Why do you use scare quotes ? On Samstag, 1. Dezember 2012, Holger Levsen wrote: http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20121102.150947.08f4206c.en.html it's a dead horse. old, long dead. can we please stop beating it? I'm sorry to keep making trouble, but strings-attached offers of substantial amounts of money from anonymous donors are a serious matter. Even if the decision for Debconf13 is already finalised, we need to have transparency. Your statement that these offers were rejected by the Debconf team doesn't seem consistent with the story I heard which is (as far as I can make out) that the donors got cold feet and downgraded their offer from a donation to a loan, which latter obviously wasn't useful to Debconf. See for example Philipp Hug's email: http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20121102.150947.08f4206c.en.html Philipp says it's now clear that they only wanted to provide DebConf with liquidity, which suggests that at some earlier point this wasn't clear and the suggestion appeared to be a donation. Please would you also answer the rest of my questions. Particularly critical are: 6. Were the proposed donors in positions of authority or governance in relation to Debconf ? Examples of people in positions of authority or governance in relation to Debconf include the DPL, the DPL helpers tasked with Debconf-related tasks, people involved with Debconf accounting on behalf of SPI or FFIS, and of course members of the Debconf global or local teams. I have heard allegations that the answer to this question is yes. Please would you either deny this, or confirm it and explain. And: 3. Were any conditions attached ? If so what were the conditions ? It has been alleged that the conditions attached were that we hold DC13 at Le Camp. Again, would you please confirm or deny. I think the whole project is entitled to full and frank answers to all of my questions. Thanks, Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20668.39337.37.805...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
libros copyleft (debian-project@lists.debian.org)
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Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
Le dimanche 02 décembre 2012 à 18:31 +0100, Philipp Hug a écrit : AFAIK there was an offer of a huge anonymous donation, which at the end seemed more a loan, and IIRC to speed up the process and not let discuss about lack of money. I don't know the source and I don't know if there was string attached. Anyway that offer endured only few days because debconf-team and localteam declined such offer. This is correct. After this was mentioned on IRC I asked about the details of this 'donation' and figured out it's just a loan, accepting some risks though, but with strings attached: The venue would need to be LeCamp. Is this anonymous-donation-which-is-not-a-donation story related to the rumors of sponsorship from a large tobacco company? It would worry me that it was even considered to accept money from a murderer company. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354561294.24058.7.camel@tomoyo
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
Le dimanche 02 décembre 2012 à 20:22 +0100, Holger Levsen a écrit : DebConf13 will be held in Le Camp, Vaumarcus, Switzerland. The DebConf chairs atm are preparing a message explaining why we (still ;) think this is a good idea. If you think DebConf is a total desaster and should be done so and so, please apply for DebConf14. Or 15. Thanks. I couldn’t care less whether a gathering of geeks who feel like they’re still 16, in the woods is a total disaster or not. But if it is, I hope you do not count on the Debian project’s money to fill in the budget gaps. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354561486.24058.10.camel@tomoyo
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
On 03/12/12 20:01, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le dimanche 02 décembre 2012 à 18:31 +0100, Philipp Hug a écrit : AFAIK there was an offer of a huge anonymous donation, which at the end seemed more a loan, and IIRC to speed up the process and not let discuss about lack of money. I don't know the source and I don't know if there was string attached. Anyway that offer endured only few days because debconf-team and localteam declined such offer. This is correct. After this was mentioned on IRC I asked about the details of this 'donation' and figured out it's just a loan, accepting some risks though, but with strings attached: The venue would need to be LeCamp. Is this anonymous-donation-which-is-not-a-donation story related to the rumors of sponsorship from a large tobacco company? In fact, it has nothing to do with the tobacco company. That is completely independent. This thread is about probity (personal involvement of team members in financial arrangements) It would worry me that it was even considered to accept money from a It was discussed on this thread: http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20121115.112828.29ea0d12.en.html It is really important to remember that there are many companies that some people will have issues with (e.g. logging the Amazon, testing drugs on animals, hacking voicemail to get news stories, even one of the existing sponsors has been mentioned in various controversies concerning privacy) and I would propose that people with views on this send their comments to the sponsors team private list: debconf-sponsors-t...@lists.debconf.org Given the sensitive nature of individual sponsorship arrangements, if people do express concerns to us privately, the sponsors team probably needs to think of a way to consult the wider community on this without wrongly focusing on just one company/industry because they happen to be located near a proposed DebConf venue. Then some generic principals can be developed to guide decisions about which sponsors are accepted. But as pointed out above, the reason for this particular thread is not directly related to the tobacco company. In fact, that is one reason why this whole thing needs to be cleared up, so that such ambiguities won't arise if there is some anonymous sponsor later on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50bcfe29.9060...@pocock.com.au
Re: Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
On 2012-11-30 18:44, Ian Jackson wrote: apparently some anonymous donors proposed to give or loan Debconf 13 CHF40K (~Eur33K). Can the Debconf global team, and/or the DC13 local team, please answer the following questions ? Since your questions remain unanswered, I just want to say as one of the DebConf Chairs that I think the questions are valid, but I personally don't know any details about this that would help clear them up. I'm uncomfortable about the idea of such a sum of anonymous money flowing towards Debconf. One natural worry would be that it would come with strings attached. Certainly at the time many people within the DebConf team were uncomfortable that this anonymous donation was used to argue that we didn't need to worry about the high prices at Le Camp, and to argue that we should definitely choose Le Camp since this money was only available if we went there. As has been stated already in this thread, after some questioning it subsequently turned out that it wasn't really a donation anyway, but a loan with the intention of providing liquidity at an early stage, and the DebConf budget team decided it was not useful to accept the offer since alternative and less mysterious liquidity sources were available. -- Moray -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d9962e808cded2dbd775eef084c2...@www.morayallan.com
Accomodation for DC13 [was “anonymous donation”]
Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 20:04 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit : I couldn’t care less whether a gathering of geeks who feel like they’re still 16, in the woods is a total disaster or not. Since I was privately asked to clarify; I feel extremely unwelcome at a place where basically the only way I could sleep correctly would be bringing my own inflatable mattress – and from the photographs, I would still be worrying about coming back with little friends in my hair and asthma for weeks. This is apparently the most comfortable place to sleep there: a room for two. http://www.groups.ch/images/haeuser/zusatz/K-0806-5487-7_20091202030934.jpg Notice how nice you’ll feel if you are more than 1m80. This is the “basic” place to sleep in Le Camp: http://www.groups.ch/images/haeuser/zusatz/K-0806-5487-6_20091202024753.jpg Yes, what you can see in the back is another layer of mattresses near the ceiling. Don’t forget these are photographs, probably made to look *nicer* than reality. But don’t worry, if you want to sleep very close in Château Vaumarcus, it will only cost you 320 f***ing CHF, which after all, at current rates, only means 256 EUR. Per night. More than twice the price of a decent room in Paris, which is already an expensive city. Or you could sleep 20 minutes away and come by car every morning (and still pay very high hotel rates). I could feel welcome in a place lost in the woods, near a lake, if I wanted to go walk in the woods or have fun on the lake. But DebConf is meant to be a conference with several hundred people, not a gathering of youngsters who want to spend a week lost in the woods in close promiscuity. I feel sorry for those who are still trying to make DC13 great, but who instead have to cope with such absurd proposals from the local team, and with the debconf team’s petty requirements — for example, using a dedicated infrastructure and FSM-knows-how-many servers for a wiki and a pair of misconfigured mailing lists with unusable archive software. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354604232.8075.22.camel@tomoe
