Re: Paths into Debian
On Mon, September 23, 2013 14:46, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Did you tag them 'gift'? https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/GiftTag This may just be me, as it's very personal, and no offense intended at you, but I really detest the name 'gift' of that tag and that prevents me from using it. Tagging something 'gift' gives me a really condescending association, where the Big Maintainer has been so kind to hand out a 'gift' of doing work to the little newbie who should be grateful to receive it. Because these are the connotations of the word gift to me: that people should feel happy to receive it, while actually we should be happy if people do work for the project. I realize this is absolutely not your intention in naming this tag and also that it's highly subjective matter. I'm raising it only because it prevents me from using it. If it's just me, than that's that. Cheers, Thijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/491fcd683b50d2f0d8aa866bd90d4655.squir...@aphrodite.kinkhorst.nl
Re: Paths into Debian
On Sep 24, 2013 2:37 AM, Thijs Kinkhorst th...@debian.org wrote: On Mon, September 23, 2013 14:46, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Did you tag them 'gift'? https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/GiftTag This may just be me, as it's very personal, and no offense intended at you, but I really detest the name 'gift' of that tag and that prevents me from using it. Tagging something 'gift' gives me a really condescending association, where the Big Maintainer has been so kind to hand out a 'gift' of doing work to the little newbie who should be grateful to receive it. Because these are the connotations of the word gift to me: that people should feel happy to receive it, while actually we should be happy if people do work for the project. I realize this is absolutely not your intention in naming this tag and also that it's highly subjective matter. I'm raising it only because it prevents me from using it. If it's just me, than that's that. Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. T Cheers, Thijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/491fcd683b50d2f0d8aa866bd90d4655.squir...@aphrodite.kinkhorst.nl
Re: Paths into Debian
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Former Debian Project Leader . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club » signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Paths into Debian
On 24/09/13 at 08:37 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: On Mon, September 23, 2013 14:46, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Did you tag them 'gift'? https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/GiftTag This may just be me, as it's very personal, and no offense intended at you, but I really detest the name 'gift' of that tag and that prevents me from using it. Tagging something 'gift' gives me a really condescending association, where the Big Maintainer has been so kind to hand out a 'gift' of doing work to the little newbie who should be grateful to receive it. Because these are the connotations of the word gift to me: that people should feel happy to receive it, while actually we should be happy if people do work for the project. Yeah, the 'gift' name was intended the other way around: make a gift to Debian. But I see how it can be misunderstood. I realize this is absolutely not your intention in naming this tag and also that it's highly subjective matter. I'm raising it only because it prevents me from using it. If it's just me, than that's that. We could try to tune documentation into either clarifying the 'gift' name, or diminishing its importance (by hiding the name where it's not strictly needed). Lucas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130924115758.ga8...@xanadu.blop.info
Re: Paths into Debian
On Sep 24, 2013 8:03 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). I don't want to give the wrong impression - I'll still use the chosen tag, but if I'm to play the Umarell, I'd be most likely to use bitesize Seriously, I don't want to get between work getting done, though. T Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Former Debian Project Leader . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »
Re: Paths into Debian
debian-love? :P On 24/09/13 14:02, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). Cheers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52417ff5.70...@qindel.com
Re: Paths into Debian
On 24/09/13 14:09, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Sep 24, 2013 8:03 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org mailto:z...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). I don't want to give the wrong impression - I'll still use the chosen tag, but if I'm to play the Umarell, I'd be most likely to use bitesize Seriously, I don't want to get between work getting done, though. However people feel about gift, there is also the jargon factor. For newcomers, jargon is a barrier and potential time waster Can we use a word that is neutral and obvious? Maybe trivial-to-fix or something like that?
DPL helpers meeting on wednesday (2013-09-25)
Hi, We will have a DPL helpers meeting on wednesday: 2013-09-25 17:00 UTC (date -d @1380128400) on #debian-dpl Titanpad with agenda: http://titanpad.com/debiandpl-20130925 (Please update the status of your action items before the meeting if possible) Lucas -- copy of the agenda below -8 #+TITLE: DPL helpers - working agenda #+DATE: [2013-09-25 Wed 17:00] * next meeting $ date -ud @1381338000 Wed Oct 9 17:00:00 UTC 2013 * Current DPL TO-DO list (Copy/pasted from http://people.debian.org/~lucas/todo.txt , which is updated more frequently) *** projects/ideas to help move forward / make sure it happens: new contributors related - Debian Welcome team (C: http://deb.li/ctX2 + BOF during DebConf - http://deb.li/w3bM . recent email: http://deb.li/3tCUj ) - recruit some example packages to point prospective contributors to. (N: send mail to -devel@, ping major teams) - adjust documentation around 'gift' tag. See http://deb.li/GWs4 other - Debian Code of Conduct (C: http://deb.li/3wRWh N: iterate with a new version?) - binary-throw-away uploads -- related to reproducible builds (N: check what was the consensus, check status) - debian-installer team (key team for swift releases) (C: http://deb.li/b0tF N: write and send call for help?) - package for dvd playing library. was reviewed by ftpmasters (N: Dmitry Smirnov to include feedback and provide a description of the packaging that can be reviewed by SFLC) - Debian PPA (would make transitions much easier to manage) (C: implementation not started yet AFAIK N: ?) - [rafw] check status / aliveness of Debian events team (N: ping) - debbugs (C: team with low manpower N: check status, write call for help?) - mariadb in Debian. See status in http://deb.li/ixEKc N: review+sponsor ... *** delegations - [richih] press team (C: someone stepped down. N: update delegation) - release team (C: some notes from DebConf meeting N: draft delegation + see dpl-helpers.git:release-delegation.txt, iterate with team) *** various other things - dig mail archives to check status of Debian wrt OIN (Q from Simon Phipps at DebConf) - [bgupta] look at donations using cryptocurrencies - write DPL part of DebConf13 final report. (C: http://deb.li/hHwh) - check that anti-harrassement is mentioned on Debian website *** Someday/maybe (reservoir of ideas) continue to improve how-can-i-help (look at bugs) continue to improve packaging-tutorial (look at bugs) improve donations infrastructure (inc. donations via paypal, maybe) finalize inbound trademark policy - https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2012/02/msg00073.html maintain authoritative list of DFSG-free licenses - RFH in http://deb.li/3zqEv patch UDD to mention odbl - http://deb.li/iOaes debian user survey debian local groups summarize salvaging packages thread as a dev-ref patch also see https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DPL/Ideas * New topics * Action items from last meeting (please update status and mention if discussion is needed. if not, we will just skip it during the meeting) ** TODO RichiH to review email about debian.* and send it to SFLC ** TODO RichiH to look into the status of the press team, and advise lucas on how to update the current delegation ** TODO rafw to look into the status of the Debian events team, and advise lucas on possible course of action ** TODO bgupta to followup with auditor@ on 9/13 regarding proposed requirements for Debian TO ** TODO RichiH to add Debian logins to http://www.debian.org/intro/organization.en.html ** TODO bgupta to explore legal issues around accepting cryptocurrency donations -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130924131103.ga16...@xanadu.blop.info
Re: Paths into Debian
Btw, i didnt exaclty came up with debian-love myself https://wiki.gnome.org/GnomeLove On 24/09/13 14:05, Alberto Fuentes wrote: debian-love? :P On 24/09/13 14:02, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). Cheers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52419641.4050...@qindel.com
Re: Paths into Debian
On 24/09/13 at 14:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote: On 24/09/13 14:09, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Sep 24, 2013 8:03 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org mailto:z...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). I don't want to give the wrong impression - I'll still use the chosen tag, but if I'm to play the Umarell, I'd be most likely to use bitesize Seriously, I don't want to get between work getting done, though. However people feel about gift, there is also the jargon factor. For newcomers, jargon is a barrier and potential time waster Can we use a word that is neutral and obvious? Maybe trivial-to-fix or something like that? Wouldn't new contributors feel bad if they can't fix a trivial-to-fix bug? I think that if we change the name because 'gift' sends a wrong message, it would be better to change to something that doesn't try to convey a message, like suitable-for-new-contributors, or new-contributors. Lucas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130924144118.gb19...@xanadu.blop.info
Re: Paths into Debian
On 24/09/13 16:41, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 24/09/13 at 14:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote: On 24/09/13 14:09, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Sep 24, 2013 8:03 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org mailto:z...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). I don't want to give the wrong impression - I'll still use the chosen tag, but if I'm to play the Umarell, I'd be most likely to use bitesize Seriously, I don't want to get between work getting done, though. However people feel about gift, there is also the jargon factor. For newcomers, jargon is a barrier and potential time waster Can we use a word that is neutral and obvious? Maybe trivial-to-fix or something like that? Wouldn't new contributors feel bad if they can't fix a trivial-to-fix bug? I think that if we change the name because 'gift' sends a wrong message, it would be better to change to something that doesn't try to convey a message, like suitable-for-new-contributors, or new-contributors. It is contextual as well What is trivial for an experienced Java programmer is not trivial to a Java beginner or somebody who only knows Python and C. My feeling is that a Java task marked trivial or whatever should be trivial for a Java beginner but it would not need to imply that it is trivial for somebody who knows Python. Maybe there could be tags such as java-bitesize or python-quickfix or c-trivial and in each case, it assumes the person attacking it has beginner level knowledge of the technology in question -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5241a857.1030...@pocock.com.au
Re: Paths into Debian
On 09/24/2013 05:41 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 24/09/13 at 14:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote: On 24/09/13 14:09, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Sep 24, 2013 8:03 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org mailto:z...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:51:53AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Its not just you - while I appreciate using a word other than bitesized or low-hanging-fruit, I tend to get the same slightly off putting feeling about gift Not to bikeshead. So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). I don't want to give the wrong impression - I'll still use the chosen tag, but if I'm to play the Umarell, I'd be most likely to use bitesize Seriously, I don't want to get between work getting done, though. However people feel about gift, there is also the jargon factor. For newcomers, jargon is a barrier and potential time waster Can we use a word that is neutral and obvious? Maybe trivial-to-fix or something like that? Wouldn't new contributors feel bad if they can't fix a trivial-to-fix bug? I think that if we change the name because 'gift' sends a wrong message, it would be better to change to something that doesn't try to convey a message, like suitable-for-new-contributors, or new-contributors. Hi everyone! I've been following the topic for some time; IMHO the word should be something real, something that is, *literally*, what it claims to be. It would be far less confusing this way. I'd like to propose entry-level or any variation of it, or at least hear a reasonable argument favoring jargon terms. FWIW, I agree with Daniel on this one. But hey, any longer discussion on this particular terminology problem bears a high risk of bikeshedding! Let's be all aware of that. Cheers, -- . o . Victor Nițu . . o debian.org.ro o o o nightsh @OFTC 772B 3AD9 007D A980 330F BDCE 03EF 1B1B F206 F2FC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5241a6c8.6040...@debian.org.ro
Re: Paths into Debian
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 04:41:18PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 24/09/13 at 14:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote: Can we use a word that is neutral and obvious? Maybe trivial-to-fix or something like that? Wouldn't new contributors feel bad if they can't fix a trivial-to-fix bug? We could also assume that we are technoids and call it entry-point as a reference to way dynamic linking works. It seems to me that these bugs may be easy or may be hard, it depends a lot, but they are like the best way to get involved... Bye, Mt. -- If you can't do it in ANSI C, it isn't worth doing. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130924153134.gs3...@alphonse.loria.fr
Re: Paths into Debian
I think the original intent of gift was that fixing the bug would be a welcome and happy gift to the maintainer, rather than that the bug was a gift to the person fixing it from the maintainer. But I agree that doesn't come across all that clearly. Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org writes: So, folks, what do you propose instead? :) If the chosen terminology send the wrong message, and hence it's potentially a blocker, let's change it (but better do it only *once*, hence the need of getting it right this time). We already have an existing help tag for bugs that the maintainer would like someone else to fix. As I understand it, the problem with using help for this purpose was that the help tag could be put on anything up to and including major rewrites, and the goal of this tag was to identify things that could be addressed by people new to the package. Given that, how about something based on the existing help tag, like help-small? -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87y56mkwrx@windlord.stanford.edu
