Re: Code of Conduct: picking up
Op 08-11-13 23:30, Wouter Verhelst schreef: > Op 05-11-13 16:25, Wouter Verhelst schreef: > [...draft CoC...] > > To avoid spamming this list with one draft after another, I've put my > current draft in a git repository which people can now find at > > http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=users/wouter/coc.git;a=blob;f=coc.markdown > > This will be updated as the discussion moves along. Patches in "git am" > format are welcome, as are regular comments on this list ;-) With the last mail to this thread now two weeks old, I've not received any further comments on my draft. Can I interpret that as "people think it's ready", or is something else going on? -- This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today. -- http://xkcd.com/1133/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Possibly moving Debian services to a CDN
]] anarcat > I would also point out that none of the CDNs *publish* the software they > develop as free software. They may *use* free software, but they built > their business on proprietary software on top of our hard work. Maybe not all of their software, but a blanket statement like that is simply wrong, take a look at https://github.com/fastly for some of what fastly's done at least. I'm not sure if Amazon has done something similar, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're pushing fixes for components upstream. Why wouldn't they? -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87zjoxbg0p@xoog.err.no
Re: Possibly moving Debian services to a CDN
]] anarcat > On 2013-11-20 16:43:35, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > ]] anarcat > > > >> On 2013-11-14 10:37:21, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > > >> > Yes. If you're just anycasting an IP, you'll get pretty poor > >> > performance. > >> > >> Can you expand on that? > > > > BGP anycast will just get you the closest one in term of metrics. This > > is probably the fewest number of cheapest hops. There's no guarantee > > those hops are going to be the shortest or fastest. > > It doesn't mean you will necessarily get "poor performance", you may, > but then it's part of the idea of running BGP: you choose the paths.. Not really. You choose some. There are other players that will manipulate paths to save themselves money or bandwidth too, so it's all a bit like a real-time strategy game. > I guess I am worried about forcing CDNs down the users' throats. I'd > like us to keep a decentralised infrastructure that doesn't depend on > those CDNs and allow people to run their own mirrors. > > Hopefully that will still be possible. Nobody has talked about taking away rsync which you can use to run your own mirror. debmirror and others also support mirroring over HTTP so you'll always be able to able to mirror if you want to. Whether that's possible has little or no bearing on if ftp.$cc.d.o is the default apt download location or if it's some other CDN-ed name. (Which isn't what we're talking about initially, but a point we might eventually get to, some years down the line.) -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87y54hbg0l@xoog.err.no
Re: Possibly moving Debian services to a CDN
On 2013-11-20 14:49:34, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: > On Wed, November 20, 2013 19:03, anarcat wrote >> I see your point, although I think there is a few orders of magnitudes >> between adding improvements to the current mirror infrastructures versus >> soldering PCBs... > > Debian's core activity is building the best OS in the world. Distributing > the actual result of that is, at least in my opinion, a thing very > peripheral to that activity. The fact that Debian has always shied away > from making CD's and distrbuting those to users but rather left that to > commercial and non-commercial parties, indicates that this is not a novel > development. > > We allow (and promoted) commercial CD services. I see delivery over the > network not as a fundamentally different thing than delivery on CD. It's > not the thing Debian is necessarily good at. Let us concentrate on the OS > building. Hosting mirrors wasn't our core activity either 20 years ago, yet we had to distribute this thing somehow. I would argue that distributing Debian, regardless of the mechanism (CDNs, mirror infrastructure, CDs) is as much part of making the software real as pushing packages to ftp-master... >> which are based on a spirit of free access and open knowledge, something >> commercial CDNs seem to be alien to... > > I have not seen any indication that commercial CDN's would necessarily be > "alien" to "free access and open knowledge", in fact, it would seem rather > contrary to their nature to hinder access to content. To take an example of one of the proposed CDNs, Amazon has been actively destroying data on people's e-readers, 1984 of all books. This would qualify as simply hostile. I would also point out that none of the CDNs *publish* the software they develop as free software. They may *use* free software, but they built their business on proprietary software on top of our hard work. That is what I meant. A. -- Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster. - Wirth's law pgpoLr0jVm6u1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Possibly moving Debian services to a CDN
On 2013-11-20 16:43:35, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] anarcat > >> On 2013-11-14 10:37:21, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > >> > Yes. If you're just anycasting an IP, you'll get pretty poor >> > performance. >> >> Can you expand on that? > > BGP anycast will just get you the closest one in term of metrics. This > is probably the fewest number of cheapest hops. There's no guarantee > those hops are going to be the shortest or fastest. It doesn't mean you will necessarily get "poor performance", you may, but then it's part of the idea of running BGP: you choose the paths.. But I see your point: it's not simply plugging in an AS number and announcing the netblock if you're not already running that AS. :) >> I guess what I am saying is that doing incremental improvements over the >> mirror infrastructure should be considered. I am worried that migrating >> to a commercial CDN will be detrimental to the current infrastructure, >> which are based on a spirit of free access and open knowledge, something >> commercial CDNs seem to be alien to... > > We've waited for somebody to step up and actually do that. Nobody is > doing it. Lots of proof-of-concept services out there, but nothing > that's solid, tested and production ready. How long would you like us > to keep the current state before we actually do something about it? Right, I hear you. I guess I am worried about forcing CDNs down the users' throats. I'd like us to keep a decentralised infrastructure that doesn't depend on those CDNs and allow people to run their own mirrors. Hopefully that will still be possible. A. -- Ils versent un pauvre miel sur leurs mots pourris et te parlent de pénurie Et sur ta faim, sur tes amis, ils aiguisent leur appétit - Richard Desjardins, La maison est ouverte pgpFSf4CzCO7v.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Choqok 1.4 on Debian Wheezy repos?
I just found a Choqok 1.3 patch here: http://wp.geeklab.com.ar/gl-en/2013/08/05/create-choqok-debian-package-from-the-git-repository-for-wheezy-and-jessie/ It has support for the API 1.1 and looks like the problem is solved for me. I just downloaded and installed the Wheezy .deb package at the bottom of the page. 2013/11/21 Paul Wise > Control: severity 712188 serious > Control: tags 712188 + patch fixed-upstream > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:13 PM, gregor herrmann wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:43:32 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Eliseu Cendron Carvalho wrote: > >> > So, is there any chance to make Choqok 1.4 available on Debian > >> > Wheezy repos? > >> Please file a release-critical bug (severity serious) about this issue. > > > > I guess that's #712188. > > I see that was filed at an incorrect severity, correcting it and CCing > the maintainer. > > Noah, users of choqok in Debian stable (and oldstable I guess) would > an appreciate an update to choqok to so that it works with the new > twitter API. I'm not sure if you have done a stable update before so > here are the documentation needed for that: > > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/developer-duties.html#maintain-stable > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#upload-stable > > -- > bye, > pabs > > http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise >
Re: Choqok 1.4 on Debian Wheezy repos?
Control: severity 712188 serious Control: tags 712188 + patch fixed-upstream On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:13 PM, gregor herrmann wrote: > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:43:32 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > >> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Eliseu Cendron Carvalho wrote: >> > So, is there any chance to make Choqok 1.4 available on Debian >> > Wheezy repos? >> Please file a release-critical bug (severity serious) about this issue. > > I guess that's #712188. I see that was filed at an incorrect severity, correcting it and CCing the maintainer. Noah, users of choqok in Debian stable (and oldstable I guess) would an appreciate an update to choqok to so that it works with the new twitter API. I'm not sure if you have done a stable update before so here are the documentation needed for that: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/developer-duties.html#maintain-stable http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#upload-stable -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6Eh8GaBp4eupcMRxxjJ4xo60ych7=wpx26zo1gjch_...@mail.gmail.com
