Re: Sponsoring a Tails hackfest?
Jonas Smedegaard writes (Re: Sponsoring a Tails hackfest?): Quoting Holger Levsen (2014-05-05 12:24:41) Debian Edu sid is 100% Debian. ... Does that mean bug#311188 is fixed? Or have things changed since your decision to lower that bugreport? I don't think it is right to criticise the Debian Edu developers for the approach they have taken. The whole point of Debian being Free Software is that people have the right to modify the software we ship. That applies even (I would say especially!) if they want to modify it in ways we don't like, for example because we don't think they are technically correct. And it is not just a legal right; it's a moral right too. So, absent other reasons for concern, we should not criticise Debian derivatives for their decision to diverge from Debian. Building a Debian derivative needs to be made easier (including politically), and more common, not harder and rarer. I fully understand why Debian's policy rules exist (indeed, the rule about not editing conffiles, referred to in #311188, was first promulgated by me). But I also understand why people want to write configuration helper packages. That our system doesn't properly support configuration helper packages is a deficiency in Debian. It is a difficult technical problem, whose solution will probably involve a good deal of both technical effort and consensus-building and negotiation. It is quite understandable that a group such as Debian Edu, who are trying to solve a particular problem, choose not to shave that particular yak and instead live with the consequences. If this situation displeases you, the right approach is to try to help improve Debian's (meta)configuration architecture. Posting brickbats (or sarcastic messages) about the Debian Edu team is not appropriate. For the record, I am very pleased that Debian is considering financially supporting Tails and I urge the DPL to go ahead with the proposed sponsorship. I am also pleased to hear (which I apparently overlooked at the time) that Debian helped sponsor the Debian Edu sprint referred to previously in this thread. There is IMO nothing wrong with Debian supporting its derivatives with money (as well as with software, which of course we already do). Our starting point with a derivative should be to see them as an ally. In the case of Tails, their values and goals are well-aligned with ours. Thanks, Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21352.56866.681808.72...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Re: Sponsoring a Tails hackfest?
Hi Ian, Quoting Ian Jackson (2014-05-06 15:05:38) Jonas Smedegaard writes (Re: Sponsoring a Tails hackfest?): Quoting Holger Levsen (2014-05-05 12:24:41) Debian Edu sid is 100% Debian. ... Does that mean bug#311188 is fixed? Or have things changed since your decision to lower that bugreport? I don't think it is right to criticise the Debian Edu developers for the approach they have taken. Neither do I. I criticise the claim that Debian Edu is a pure subset of Debian, as defined at https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends#Terminology. I fully understand why Debian's policy rules exist (indeed, the rule about not editing conffiles, referred to in #311188, was first promulgated by me). But I also understand why people want to write configuration helper packages. I fully agree. That our system doesn't properly support configuration helper packages is a deficiency in Debian. It is a difficult technical problem, whose solution will probably involve a good deal of both technical effort and consensus-building and negotiation. It is quite understandable that a group such as Debian Edu, who are trying to solve a particular problem, choose not to shave that particular yak and instead live with the consequences. If this situation displeases you, the right approach is to try to help improve Debian's (meta)configuration architecture. Posting brickbats (or sarcastic messages) about the Debian Edu team is not appropriate. What displeases me is Debian Edu claiming to be fully inside Debian when in fact their configuration handling is not. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: A question about patches for upstream
Marc Haber writes (Re: A question about patches for upstream): I understand. Unfortunately, Debian has a number of developers that are quite impolite while doing their work. In a real company, such people would be confined to their development work and kept away from paying customers. A win-win situation for all parties, but Debian cannot afford that, unfortunately. We can certainly afford to lose those people. I think they are driving away valuable but thinner-skinned contributors. Acknowledging this is part of what the social contract is about IMO. Ian. (on -project, not -devel) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21353.4922.804882.502...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Re: A question about patches for upstream
Hi, Ian Jackson: We can certainly afford to lose those people. I think they are driving away valuable but thinner-skinned contributors. Long-term, I agree with you. Shorter-term, we might have an uphill battle convincing potential new contributors that Debian isn't as harsh an environment as it used/is generally perceived to be. -- -- Matthias Urlichs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140506172059.ga12...@smurf.noris.de
Re: A question about patches for upstream
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote: Marc Haber writes (Re: A question about patches for upstream): I understand. Unfortunately, Debian has a number of developers that are quite impolite while doing their work. In a real company, such people would be confined to their development work and kept away from paying customers. A win-win situation for all parties, but Debian cannot afford that, unfortunately. We can certainly afford to lose those people. I think they are driving away valuable but thinner-skinned contributors. Acknowledging this is part of what the social contract is about IMO. That should be Code of Conduct [1], not social contract [2]!! Get it right!! All kidding aside, is there a plan to post the CoC, and make it easy to find from www.d.o? (Perhaps either in the About section, or on the about Debian page?) Perhaps I should just file a bug and let web team figure out best placement? Cheers, -Brian [1] - https://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002 [2] - https://www.debian.org/social_contract Ian. (on -project, not -devel) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21353.4922.804882.502...@chiark.greenend.org.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacfairzq3rhxrbwaayckej5qnk_zgv4+jcw1gmhemele4pv...@mail.gmail.com
Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy
I'm considering coordinating a group buy of two color, 54mm x 70mm white vinyl stickers with the Debian Open Logo[logo], and distributing them to other group purchasers at Debconf14. Minimum quantities of 2000 (US$250) are required from the printer which I've found,[printer] which comes to $0.125 per sticker. I'm personally willing to take 500 of them, but I'd like to have enough other parties to take the additional stickers. Please either reply or indicate on the wiki page[wiki] if you are interested with the quantity that you are interested in. I'm also willing to consider larger sizes, shapes, or different printers, too. [If you are not going to be at Debconf14, but are in the US and want enough stickers to justify my time (and your money) sending them to you, I'm willing to consider that too.] [logo]: https://www.debian.org/logos/openlogo-100.png [printer]: https://stickerguy.com/images/stickerguy_bulk-pricing.pdf [wiki]: https://wiki.debian.org/Merchandise/Stickers -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com Three little words. (In order of importance.) █ █ ▌ ▞▀▖▌ ▌▛▀▘ █ ▌ ▌ ▌▝▞ ▛▀ you █ ▀▀▘▝▀ ▘ ▀▀▘ █ -- hugh macleod Three Words -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140506194017.ga18...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy
On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 12:40:24PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: I'm considering coordinating a group buy of two color, 54mm x 70mm white vinyl stickers with the Debian Open Logo[logo], and distributing them to other group purchasers at Debconf14. Minimum quantities of 2000 (US$250) are required from the printer which I've found,[printer] which comes to $0.125 per sticker. I'm personally willing to take 500 of them, but I'd like to have enough other parties to take the additional stickers. Please either reply or indicate on the wiki page[wiki] if you are interested with the quantity that you are interested in. I'm also willing to consider larger sizes, shapes, or different printers, too. [If you are not going to be at Debconf14, but are in the US and want enough stickers to justify my time (and your money) sending them to you, I'm willing to consider that too.] What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than just the square white ones? Thanks, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy
On Tue, 06 May 2014, Steve Langasek wrote: What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than just the square white ones? You mean these ones, right? http://debian.ch/merchandise/ I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but I'm interested in getting a few of them myself. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -- Frederick Douglass -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140506211840.gd18...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy
Hi, On Dienstag, 6. Mai 2014, Steve Langasek wrote: What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than just the square white ones? if you mean those foil stickers, I have quite plenty of regular Debian, Debian women and Debian bsd ones, in three different sizes... I guess I'll bring or ship them to the DebConf14... cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Possible Two Color Debian Logo White Vinyl Sticker Group Buy
On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 02:18:40PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 06 May 2014, Steve Langasek wrote: What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than just the square white ones? You mean these ones, right? http://debian.ch/merchandise/ I think these are going to be closer to US$5-10 per for larger ones, but I'm interested in getting a few of them myself. On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 11:20:32PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: On Dienstag, 6. Mai 2014, Steve Langasek wrote: What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale back in ~2006, and I've gone through enough hardware since then that my current laptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than just the square white ones? if you mean those foil stickers, I have quite plenty of regular Debian, Debian women and Debian bsd ones, in three different sizes... I guess I'll bring or ship them to the DebConf14... Ah, those are the ones! Didn't know they were still around - I'll definitely by some if they show up at DebConf :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
