Re: draft alternative proposal: fix problem at the root
Russ == Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes: Russ There's another alternative to using the CTTE, and my Russ understanding is that this was generally the method used prior Russ to the existence of the CTTE, but I'm not sure it's really any Russ better. Russ There are specific teams in Debian, generally delegates at Russ this point, that sit at choke points and can effectively make Russ decisions like this as part of the course of their duties. Russ For example, for the init system decision, I suspect a lot of Russ the pressure would have been on the d-i team to pick a Russ default. In the past, the usual victim for many of our Russ disputes has been ftp-master, since they can block archive Russ uploads or eject things from the archive. For others (and I Russ can recall some epic ones), it was the DAM. I remember back in my first years of Debian thinking that the TC wasn't very effective. Stuff would get brought to them and not really decided. Some folks (Ian's name springs to mind particularly but I don't recall without going back to mail from the 2004-2006 time frame) really made an effort to make sure that the TC responded to issues brought to it. The TC became effective in that it gave answers if you brought issues to them. Today, I think we have an opportunity to see if we can transform the TC into a body that's good at helping people make these sorts of decisions when there is conflict. I think it will be as much about mediation, about asking people to work together, about pointing out to people they are talking past each other, about asking people to reconsider their decisions with certain criteria in mind than about overriding people. I think that if we can do that well, it will be very valuable. I think it will also be very different than giving the power to the individual teams. I'd really like to see the TC be given an opportunity to try that sort of thing before we start doing major changes. --Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/014a10905a0c-8344753f-e2ee-4a09-9f34-81fd73767e35-000...@email.amazonses.com
Justice For Zemir (cello song to that regard)
#JusticeForZemir Zemir Begic was subject to a revenge killing by 2 coloured young men for the death of Michael Brown. The killers reportedly shouted Kill all the white people before beating Zemir to death with two hammers. It has been reported that previously the killers were involved in the Ferguson protests. This was a revenge killing. This is a plea for equality of outcomes: That justice, that is: an eye for an eye comes to the people who killed Zemir Begic. (C) Gnu GPL v2 (MikeeUSA) Instrument: Cello http://youtu.be/5eHmraL3wvE Mit einer kostenlosen E-Mail-Adresse @t-online.de werden Ihre Daten verschlüsselt übertragen und in Deutschland gespeichert. www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1xwdvp-33fd...@fwd19.aul.t-online.de
Re: draft alternative proposal: fix problem at the root
On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Sam Hartman wrote: Russ == Russ Allbery writes: Russ There's another alternative to using the CTTE, and my Russ understanding is that this was generally the method used prior Russ to the existence of the CTTE, but I'm not sure it's really any Russ better. Russ There are specific teams in Debian, generally delegates at Russ this point, that sit at choke points and can effectively make Russ decisions like this as part of the course of their duties. Russ For example, for the init system decision, I suspect a lot of Russ the pressure would have been on the d-i team to pick a Russ default. In the past, the usual victim for many of our Russ disputes has been ftp-master, since they can block archive Russ uploads or eject things from the archive. For others (and I Russ can recall some epic ones), it was the DAM. I remember back in my first years of Debian thinking that the TC wasn't very effective. Stuff would get brought to them and not really decided. Some folks (Ian's name springs to mind particularly but I don't recall without going back to mail from the 2004-2006 time frame) really made an effort to make sure that the TC responded to issues brought to it. The TC became effective in that it gave answers if you brought issues to them. Today, I think we have an opportunity to see if we can transform the TC into a body that's good at helping people make these sorts of decisions when there is conflict. I think it will be as much about mediation, about asking people to work together, about pointing out to people they are talking past each other, about asking people to reconsider their decisions with certain criteria in mind than about overriding people. Doesn't that require constitutional change? The current powers as written make the TC a decision-making body, not a mediation body. Best wishes, Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CANTw=mm2pblhvxhpeyzq6k9y2wqv47fjaomuvbcehob_bda...@mail.gmail.com
Re: draft alternative proposal: fix problem at the root
On Thu, 04 Dec 2014, Michael Gilbert wrote: Doesn't that require constitutional change? The current powers as written make the TC a decision-making body, not a mediation body. Not really, because it doesn't take any constitutional powers to try to mediate. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com [C]haos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized. -- Terry Pratchett _Interesting Times_ p4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141204060218.ga4...@teltox.donarmstrong.com
