Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy

[Stephan Foley]

Hi Wouter and thanks for the reply.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Wouter Verhelst  wrote:
> It is fair to say that Debian supports:
> - Non-technical desktop users who want to use one of:
>   - Gnome
>   - KDE
>   - Mate
>   - Cinnamon
>   - XFCE
>   - LXDE
> - non-technical users who want to run a web, print, or SSH server;
> - Technical users who want to use anything else
>
> since these are the "tasks" that are included in the installer, and
> which produce a full selection of packages.
>
> FluxBox is not one of those. If you want to use a user interface that
> isn't one of the standard environments, it's certainly possible to do so
> within Debian, but it *will* indeed require a lot more effort.
>
> However, going from there to saying that "Debian is only for the tech
> savvy sys admin type and the server market" is taking a bit of a leap
> that I'm not sure is a fair one. We do support less tech savvy people,
> just not with such highly customized environments.

Very true, I agree with all of your points. Going back to my original
purpose of posting this question, I wanted to do a sort of "sales
pitch" to encourage Debian to offer Fluxbox as a task in the
installer. I actually wrote up a spec which you can find here:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/FluxboxSpec

I had just watched a video about Debian development and the speaker
said the official motto might be the universal operating system, but
the unofficial motto is the sys admin distro for sys admins.

So, I thought this might be a good angle for my pitch...hey, Debian is
for the technically savvy, so why not offer a technically savvy
windows manager in addition to the others. As for the others (Gnome,
KDE, etc), I might add that they are mostly just aping the Windows
paradigm, but that might be my chauvinist Fluxbox attitude :-)

As for what I think, having used Debian for many years, I think Debian
is for the server market and also a major "feeder" for all the
downstream distros. I think that's where Debian derives power and
fills its niche very well.

Thanks again for the reply. Also...let's get Fluxbox in the
installer's tasks list! All those server admins deserve an easy
install :-)

Steve

Re: FOSSASIA Debian speakers and potential mini-DebConf

[Kartik Mistry]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:12 AM, Daniel Pocock  wrote:
> The FOSSASIA conference[1] is coming up again soon, it is in Singapore
> this year, 18 - 20 March
>
> It has also been suggested there could be a mini-DebConf associated with
> the event in some way.
>
> Is anybody interested in participating in any way?  The call for
> speakers[2] is still open.
>
> They also indicated they are unable to fund speaker travel, is anybody
> aware of opportunities for funding for Debian Developers who are invited
> to speak at FOSSASIA or an associated mini-DebConf?
>
> Singapore is one of the most successful and prominent economic centres
> in the region and this appears to be a good opportunity for Debian to
> have some exposure there.

I visited Singapore last year for FOSSASIA and my feeling was mixed (I
gave talk on different subject than Debian!). Before that, I met DD
(and other Debian contributor) and it was fun for sure.

So, if everything goes OK, I can attend (Conference doesn't provide
travel+stay to speakers).

-- 
Kartik Mistry/કાર્તિક મિસ્ત્રી | IRC: kart_
{kartikm, 0x1f1f}.wordpress.com

Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 09:07:10PM -0500, Stephan Foley wrote:
> [Yaroslav Halchenko]
> >> And, I am tech-savvy :-)
> >
> > Why wasn't it enough to run these two commands?
> > apt-get install xorg
> > apt-get install fluxbox
> >
> > The instructions on the wiki metion only this:
> > https://wiki.debian.org/FluxBox#Installation
> 
> grrr
> 
> 
> Well, first off, I had to figure out the best display manager. Then, install
> Fluxbox and you got some ugly styling! Then, I had to figure out how to
> config all the gtk stuff and fonts, etc. Then, of course, no sound. And how
> about auto mounting external drives, etc, etc! Or even just artwork for grub
> and lightdm.

It is fair to say that Debian supports:
- Non-technical desktop users who want to use one of:
  - Gnome
  - KDE
  - Mate
  - Cinnamon
  - XFCE
  - LXDE
- non-technical users who want to run a web, print, or SSH server;
- Technical users who want to use anything else

since these are the "tasks" that are included in the installer, and
which produce a full selection of packages.

FluxBox is not one of those. If you want to use a user interface that
isn't one of the standard environments, it's certainly possible to do so
within Debian, but it *will* indeed require a lot more effort.

However, going from there to saying that "Debian is only for the tech
savvy sys admin type and the server market" is taking a bit of a leap
that I'm not sure is a fair one. We do support less tech savvy people,
just not with such highly customized environments.

-- 
It is easy to love a country that is famous for chocolate and beer

  -- Barack Obama, speaking in Brussels, Belgium, 2014-03-26