Re: Appropriate escalation (or non-escalation) re rude emails

[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, Sam Hartman wrote:
> 3) Similar to 2. I don't think you can take off any hats you do have
> when sending such mails. If you have a role in our account,
> antiharassment, conduct, listmaster, moderation, or other related
> processes, you can't really ever give that up when talking to people
> about conduct. People will hear, and to some large extent should hear
> your message with the hat, even if you intend it without the hat.
>
> And so, I think you need to take the same level of responsibility and
> care for anything unofficial that you would for something more
> official, because it's subject to the same potential for abuse.

Taking care and responsibility is appropriate (and I believe everyone in
these difficult roles does so.)

However, taking the same level of care and responsibility would
necessitate running any message I send by all of the other team members
before sending it.[1] That would mean I'll never point out sub-optimal
behavior until it reaches a level which is bad enough that it's worth
wasting everyone else's time to craft such a warning. [Usually after
multiple complaints.]

Instead, I just Cc: everyone else who is on the role so they know what
I've said, and can act if there's abuse.

1: At least, when I want to speak with my listmaster@ or owner@ hat on,
that's what I do.
-- 
Don Armstrong  https://www.donarmstrong.com

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you really want to test his
character, give him power.
 -- Abraham Lincoln

Re: Appropriate escalation (or non-escalation) re rude emails

[G. Branden Robinson]

At 2017-10-30T17:01:43-0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> I don't think you can take off any hats you do have when sending such
> mails.  If you have a role in our account, antiharassment, conduct,
> listmaster, moderation, or other related processes, you can't really
> ever give that up when talking to people about conduct.  People will
> hear, and to some large extent should hear your message with the hat,
> even if you intend it without the hat.  And so, I think you need to
> take the same level of responsibility and care for anything unofficial
> that you would for something more official, because it's subject to
> the same potential for abuse.

Here's what it looks like when one argues that that's not the case:

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/judge-will-not-limit-bergdahl-s-sentence-over-trump-comments-1.495257

-- 
Regards,
Branden


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Re: Appropriate escalation (or non-escalation) re rude emails

[Sam Hartman]

> "Chris" == Chris Lamb  writes:


Chris> However, I do not believe one needs standing to do so and
Chris> would highly encourage people to call out behaviour they feel
Chris> is unacceptable, whoever they are or whatever flags they have
Chris> in the Debian LDAP server.

Chris> Indeed, this is probably more effective at changing the
Chris> culture as it does not involve a paternalistic/authoritarian
Chris> "telling off". Thoughts?

In general, I think this is great.
I have a few fbits of advice I'd offer:

1) I'd recommend being extra careful that such mails are clear,
respectful and compassionate.  Clearly explain what behavior you hope
will change, why that would be valuable.  Talk about the behavior on
content not about the person.

2) Especially when there's area for disagreement make it clear what
position you have in the project.  Hi, I'm the DAM, and THIS MUST STOP
NOW requires a different approach if you think the request to change is
unreasonable than hi I'm a user and I hope everyone in the project
THINKS THIS MUST STOP NOW.

3) Similar to 2.  I don't think you can take off any hats you do have
when sending such mails.  If you have a role in our account,
antiharassment, conduct, listmaster, moderation, or other related
processes, you can't really ever give that up when talking to people
about conduct.  People will hear, and to some large extent should hear
your message with the hat, even if you intend it without the hat.  And
so, I think you need to take the same level of responsibility and care
for anything unofficial that you would for something more official,
because it's subject to the same potential for abuse.

--Sam