Re: Debian and Non-Free Services
Hi Michael On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 04:41:41PM +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: > > - GitHub takes efforts to provide root cause analysis & lessons learned We are all volunteers, which is not the case for GitHub employees. So thank you for volunteering to help the Salsa admins with communication in the future. Regards, Bastian -- I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell the truth. -- Kirk, "Errand of Mercy", stardate 3198.9
Re: Debian and Non-Free Services
Hi Michael On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 02:49:32AM -0500, Michael Lustfield wrote: > - It's significantly more stable > + I've seen "GitLab is not responding" more times than I can keep track of > + I've also seen a large number of 500 and 504 errors (at least 1x/wk) We have around 0,1% failure rate. > + This reliably fails: https://salsa.debian.org/api/v4/groups/debian - Known, bug in the API, can be worked aroung with "?with_projects=false". - WTH do you even try this? - I doubt that GitHub got similar large groups. > - GitHub often addresses problems quickly; this is rare with salsa https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/support/issues?scope=all=%E2%9C%93=all_username=mtecknology is empty. So which problems are you talking about. > - GitHub takes efforts to provide root cause analysis & lessons learned https://bits.debian.org/2019/08/salsa-postmortem-docker-registry.html > - Decisions are discussed, instead of drunken thoughts over chips and salsa -v? Okay, no need to go further. Bastian -- Knowledge, sir, should be free to all! -- Harry Mudd, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3
Re: Debian and Non-Free Services
On 10/8/19 9:49 AM, Michael Lustfield wrote: > On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 23:42:50 +0200 > Thomas Goirand wrote: > >> So, if someone is not using Github's "advanced" features, like pull >> requests and so on, why that person would care about using Github more >> than using Salsa? >> >>> You may guess that people using github accept pull requests, but you >>> even can't see whether they actually like them -- there are many reasons >>> why people use github, and PRs may not necessarily the specific reason >>> for the repository. >> >> I'm just trying to understand here... >> Apart from the "close to upstream" bit, what would be the reasons? > > I prefer GitHub over Debian's GitLab instance because: > > - It's significantly more stable > + I've seen "GitLab is not responding" more times than I can keep track of > + I've also seen a large number of 500 and 504 errors (at least 1x/wk) > + This reliably fails: https://salsa.debian.org/api/v4/groups/debian > - GitHub often addresses problems quickly; this is rare with salsa > - GitHub takes efforts to provide root cause analysis & lessons learned > - Decisions are discussed, instead of drunken thoughts over chips and salsa > - I've witnessed more changes accepted by GitHub > + Salsa concerns have been met with, "fix it in upstream or go away" > + GitHub concerns have been met with, "this is now an internal incident" > & often fixed within a month or two > - It's a well-known standard solution where many people already have accounts > - GitHub admins are *much* more responsive (for obvious reasons) > > I prefer GitHub over GitLab, in general, because: > > - GitHub doesn't require javascript just to browse repos > - GitHub is often *much* faster to respond to feature requests > - GitHub stages upgrades; improving general stability > - GitLab has a *lot* of weird ACL bugs > + I can create projects in groups that I have no access to maintain > + I can create branches that won't let me force push (git push -f) > + I can create projects that let me push to anything except master > + I can be given maintainer access to a team owning those projects, but > still > run into all the same problems > > I can provide a much longer list, but it shouldn't be necessary. There are > plenty of reasons why someone would prefer GitHub over other alternatives. > Attempting to force one option only going to further divide our community. You (and FWIW everyone else) didn't provide any *feature* that's missing in Salsa. I do hear the above, but I was expecting to read about features missing in Gitlab. It's nice that it doesn't seem to be the case. BTW, I do not agree that Salsa is often down, badly maintained, or buggy in general. Compared to Alioth, that's a big plus. I am also very thankful for the work done so far. Cheers, Thomas Goirand (zigo)
debian-project@lists.debian.org//Erbitte Hilfe//majord...@lists.debian.org
debian-user-ger...@lists.debian.org hallo warum funktioniert email gruppe nicht? gruss whyskyh...@yahoo.de
Re: Debian and Non-Free Services
Le Mardi, Octobre 08, 2019 09:49 CEST, Michael Lustfield a écrit: > On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 23:42:50 +0200 > Thomas Goirand wrote: > > > So, if someone is not using Github's "advanced" features, like pull > > requests and so on, why that person would care about using Github more > > than using Salsa? > > > > > You may guess that people using github accept pull requests, but you > > > even can't see whether they actually like them -- there are many reasons > > > why people use github, and PRs may not necessarily the specific reason > > > for the repository. > > > > I'm just trying to understand here... > > Apart from the "close to upstream" bit, what would be the reasons? > > I prefer GitHub over Debian's GitLab instance because: > > - It's significantly more stable > + I've seen "GitLab is not responding" more times than I can keep track of > + I've also seen a large number of 500 and 504 errors (at least 1x/wk) > + This reliably fails: https://salsa.debian.org/api/v4/groups/debian > - GitHub often addresses problems quickly; this is rare with salsa > - GitHub takes efforts to provide root cause analysis & lessons learned > - Decisions are discussed, instead of drunken thoughts over chips and salsa > - I've witnessed more changes accepted by GitHub > + Salsa concerns have been met with, "fix it in upstream or go away" > + GitHub concerns have been met with, "this is now an internal incident" > & often fixed within a month or two > - It's a well-known standard solution where many people already have accounts > - GitHub admins are *much* more responsive (for obvious reasons) > > I prefer GitHub over GitLab, in general, because: > > - GitHub doesn't require javascript just to browse repos > - GitHub is often *much* faster to respond to feature requests > - GitHub stages upgrades; improving general stability > - GitLab has a *lot* of weird ACL bugs > + I can create projects in groups that I have no access to maintain > + I can create branches that won't let me force push (git push -f) > + I can create projects that let me push to anything except master > + I can be given maintainer access to a team owning those projects, but > still > run into all the same problems > > I can provide a much longer list, but it shouldn't be necessary. There are > plenty of reasons why someone would prefer GitHub over other alternatives. > Attempting to force one option only going to further divide our community. I heard the same thing when we were migrating from Office to LibreOffice (x ~100.000 users). Freedom has a price. Thank you very much to the salsa teams for the great work they do Cheers, Xavier
Re: coccia.debian.org maintenance (moving the VM from BM to UBC)
On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 06:18:24PM -0500, Steve Robbins wrote: > There seems to be a lot of such migrations. Is there a wholesale move to > UBC? Or away from Bytemark? I believe it's primarily because of DebianRT#7967: vdisk msa2k-2.0-2tr10 @ bytemark in a critical state - https://rt.debian.org/7967 > On October 7, 2019 3:52:47 a.m. CDT, Julien Cristau > wrote: > >Hi folks, > > > >We will move the coccia.d.o VM (aka api.ftp-master.d.o, > >mirror.ftp-master.d.o) from Bytemark to UBC soon. Expect a few hours of > >downtime while the data is being copied. > > > >ftp.eu.upload.debian.org should keep working, although it won't be in > >Europe for some time (hopefully just a few short weeks). > > > >Cheers, > >Julien > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw 4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51
Re: Debian and Non-Free Services
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 23:42:50 +0200 Thomas Goirand wrote: > So, if someone is not using Github's "advanced" features, like pull > requests and so on, why that person would care about using Github more > than using Salsa? > > > You may guess that people using github accept pull requests, but you > > even can't see whether they actually like them -- there are many reasons > > why people use github, and PRs may not necessarily the specific reason > > for the repository. > > I'm just trying to understand here... > Apart from the "close to upstream" bit, what would be the reasons? I prefer GitHub over Debian's GitLab instance because: - It's significantly more stable + I've seen "GitLab is not responding" more times than I can keep track of + I've also seen a large number of 500 and 504 errors (at least 1x/wk) + This reliably fails: https://salsa.debian.org/api/v4/groups/debian - GitHub often addresses problems quickly; this is rare with salsa - GitHub takes efforts to provide root cause analysis & lessons learned - Decisions are discussed, instead of drunken thoughts over chips and salsa - I've witnessed more changes accepted by GitHub + Salsa concerns have been met with, "fix it in upstream or go away" + GitHub concerns have been met with, "this is now an internal incident" & often fixed within a month or two - It's a well-known standard solution where many people already have accounts - GitHub admins are *much* more responsive (for obvious reasons) I prefer GitHub over GitLab, in general, because: - GitHub doesn't require javascript just to browse repos - GitHub is often *much* faster to respond to feature requests - GitHub stages upgrades; improving general stability - GitLab has a *lot* of weird ACL bugs + I can create projects in groups that I have no access to maintain + I can create branches that won't let me force push (git push -f) + I can create projects that let me push to anything except master + I can be given maintainer access to a team owning those projects, but still run into all the same problems I can provide a much longer list, but it shouldn't be necessary. There are plenty of reasons why someone would prefer GitHub over other alternatives. Attempting to force one option only going to further divide our community. -- Michael Lustfield
