Re: disabling boot time automatic rootfs resize
On Wed, 2022-12-14 at 10:17 +0200, Johnny de Villiers wrote: > Thank you for the response... have attempted the dummy partition > method previously and the system would reach the listing of connected > devices and basically hang there forever. Found a work around however > it involves shuffling around the partition order... not ideal! If you are using the images provided by the Debian RPi team, please file a bug report with them about this issue. https://raspi.debian.net/contact For other images you will need to consult the folks who created them. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?
Le Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 07:33:53AM +, Andrew M.A. Cater a écrit : > > Dropping fortunes-offensive completely (and the associated > translations/extra files in Italian It does not seem to be translations and at least contains original creations. Or maybe one can point me to the equivalent of fanculo in the English package ? I wondered about the absence of a French version. If I would make one, would it have to offend me or to offend others ? Actually, I am not sure to want the answer... Or maybe the answer is the following: if I write a pet package containing pieces of opinion texts that I think are important and upload it to NEW because I believe it is cheap for Debian to distributes it, I bet the answer will be something "please distribute it yourself until it demonstrates relevance beyond your own circles". Have a nice day, Charles -- Charles Plessy Nagahama, Yomitan, Okinawa, Japan Tooting from work, https://mastodon.technology/@charles_plessy Tooting from home, https://framapiaf.org/@charles_plessy
Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 at 18:40, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > Andrew M.A. Cater dijo [Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 07:33:53AM +]: > > (...) > > The utility of a separate package depends on how much work it is to > > produce it. That was the renaming bug that jmtd fixed, I think. > > I think removing Hitler/Goebbels quotes from an obscure game is worthwhile: > > it stops any association / any *Debian encourages Nazism* and means that we > > don't have to worry about hosting it anywhere at all. > > Although during this discussion it was shown via several examples (and > not one counterexample TTBOMK) that, while fortunes-off does have > nazi-leaders snippets, it's not something that can be read as > endorsing those views, but just the opposite -- either ridiculing > them, pointing out how flawed the ideas were, or somesuch. > Correct, it is not the data to be evil but how we perceive it. Forgetting the past is not the right way to deal with it but the easiest to repeat the errors. Best, R-
Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?
Andrew M.A. Cater dijo [Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 07:33:53AM +]: > (...) > The utility of a separate package depends on how much work it is to > produce it. That was the renaming bug that jmtd fixed, I think. > I think removing Hitler/Goebbels quotes from an obscure game is worthwhile: > it stops any association / any *Debian encourages Nazism* and means that we > don't have to worry about hosting it anywhere at all. Although during this discussion it was shown via several examples (and not one counterexample TTBOMK) that, while fortunes-off does have nazi-leaders snippets, it's not something that can be read as endorsing those views, but just the opposite -- either ridiculing them, pointing out how flawed the ideas were, or somesuch.
Re: disabling boot time automatic rootfs resize
On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 10:03:19 CET Thomas Goirand wrote: > I don't think the Debian image for RPi has cloud-init Correct signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: disabling boot time automatic rootfs resize
Hi Paul Thank you for the response... have attempted the dummy partition method previously and the system would reach the listing of connected devices and basically hang there forever. Found a work around however it involves shuffling around the partition order... not ideal! What I am attempting to do is create three partitions, the first would be the "boot", the second would be the "root" and the third would be an "EPD" ( External Persistent Device ) to store data on that I would like to share between different distributions allowing me to swap out without the fear of data loss. On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 7:04 AM Paul Wise wrote: > On Tue, 2022-12-13 at 12:06 +0200, Johnny de Villiers wrote: > > > Have been trying to disable the root boot time automatic rootfs > > resize for devices running arm such as the RPi, Odroid, RockPi etc... > > with little to no success. > > Normal Debian installs do not alter the rootfs size after installation, > so you must be using a custom image with extra packages installed. > > If you are using the Debian images for RPi, the site for that gives a > procedure for disabling/limiting the first-boot filesystem resize step: > > https://raspi.debian.net/defaults-and-settings/ > > For other images you will need to consult the folks who created them. > > > Is there any way to do this? The systems running the 'cloud-init' > > packages like ubuntu have given us a means to disable it, however am > > unable to find any documentation on the debian system doing this? > > cloud-init is available in Debian too, but I assume like something that > would only be used on cloud images, not on ARM images. > > -- > bye, > pabs > > https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise > -- Thank you Kind Regards Johnny de Villiers
Re: disabling boot time automatic rootfs resize
On 12/14/22 06:03, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, 2022-12-13 at 12:06 +0200, Johnny de Villiers wrote: Have been trying to disable the root boot time automatic rootfs resize for devices running arm such as the RPi, Odroid, RockPi etc... with little to no success. Normal Debian installs do not alter the rootfs size after installation, so you must be using a custom image with extra packages installed. If you are using the Debian images for RPi, the site for that gives a procedure for disabling/limiting the first-boot filesystem resize step: https://raspi.debian.net/defaults-and-settings/ For other images you will need to consult the folks who created them. Is there any way to do this? The systems running the 'cloud-init' packages like ubuntu have given us a means to disable it, however am unable to find any documentation on the debian system doing this? cloud-init is available in Debian too, but I assume like something that would only be used on cloud images, not on ARM images. Not sure if that's the Debian image (I don't think the Debian image for RPi has cloud-init), though with cloud-init, you may simply disable some modules in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg. I hope that helps, Cheers, Thomas Goirand (zigo)
Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 at 23:56, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:18:48AM +0100, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > > "Roberto A. Foglietta" wrote on 20/11/2022 at > > 22:14:35+0100: > > > > > On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 21:42, G. Branden Robinson > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Thank you for, perhaps inadvertently, compelling me to review some of > > >> the content of the package. I can now say that I am certain there is > > >> material of worth in the fortunes-off package and support its retention > > >> in the Debian distribution. A review process for individual entries > > >> that are incompatible with the project's values is manifest in the BTS. > > >> > > > > > > rational approach vs cancel culture: 1 vs 0 > > > <3 > > > > Cancel culture would be shaming those having done the content/package, > > trying to hide it so that no one could see it (it's on GitHub and no one > > here plans on having it removed from there) and burn on a bench anyone > > asking for it to be back. > > > > The mere thing I did is to state that it's garbage to me and it should > > be thrown out from the archive because we have better stuff to do with > > our free time. > > > > Your answer: "cancel culture". > > > > I guess it's supposed to be a "rational approach"? This is rich. > > I think the bit of "rational approach" is to see *why* the package was > called "offensive" (because $DPL-of-a-long-time-ago decided that certain > subjects are offensive and they shouldn't be in the "regular" package), > and whether it actually results in a net positive (answer: probably not, > depending on your point of view). > > If the "offensive" package were, in fact, mostly nazi and other such > similar content then you would have a point; but I in fact used to have > "fortune -o" in my .bashrc file, and, no, it really isn't. You might get > personally insulted occasionally, but that's about it (and if you can't > stand that, then, well, don't install the "offensive" package and/or > don't use the "-o" parameter to fortune -- I mean, there are *two* > barriers!). > > Perhaps if there is something in the "offensive" package that we can > point to and declare really problematic, we can file bugs about that? > But just removing the whole package because "oh no" feels like the > baby/bathwater story and, yes, cancel culture. > Considering that "offensive" is a definition that greatly changes along history time and geography space, there is no reason to abandon a package that after all is an example of what - today and in our culture - we consider offensive. As stated above there are two barriers that prevent the common user from getting exposed to that material: the installation of the package and the use of the -o option. Take in consideration that many people consider offensive statements pro-LGBT+ for example. So, those statements should also be moved into the "offensive" package? (I don't even know if there are such statements, just for example). At its extreme consequences the cancel culture brings to the consequences profetized by Dostoievski: "Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles′′ - opss - SORRY - I cited a Russian authors! LOL Think about it, even twice... :-) Best, R-
Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?
On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 12:34:02AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:18:48AM +0100, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> > "Roberto A. Foglietta" wrote on 20/11/2022 at
> > 22:14:35+0100:
> >
>
> I think the bit of "rational approach" is to see *why* the package was
> called "offensive" (because $DPL-of-a-long-time-ago decided that certain
> subjects are offensive and they shouldn't be in the "regular" package),
> and whether it actually results in a net positive (answer: probably not,
> depending on your point of view).
>
> If the "offensive" package were, in fact, mostly nazi and other such
> similar content then you would have a point; but I in fact used to have
> "fortune -o" in my .bashrc file, and, no, it really isn't. You might get
> personally insulted occasionally, but that's about it (and if you can't
> stand that, then, well, don't install the "offensive" package and/or
> don't use the "-o" parameter to fortune -- I mean, there are *two*
> barriers!).
>
> Perhaps if there is something in the "offensive" package that we can
> point to and declare really problematic, we can file bugs about that?
> But just removing the whole package because "oh no" feels like the
> baby/bathwater story and, yes, cancel culture.
>
It's tagged that way in the BSDs and in the GitHub repository which seems
to be *most* of the upstream. It's an open queston as to whether it's humorous
it's an open question as to who wants to actually maintain it, fix bugs,
add quotes - and, essentially, become upstream (you'd need to get knightbrd
quotes included somewhere, for example).
Dropping fortunes-offensive completely (and the associated
translations/extra files in Italian and
Spanish) is one straightforward way to solve a problem. There's no firm
consensus for that. That's OK.
Not packaging the single .dat file and telling people how to download it (and
other fortunes files / how to write their own) would be another way.
(And yes, we could be missing out on great fortune cookies from lots
of other places).
The utility of a separate package depends on how much work it is to
produce it. That was the renaming bug that jmtd fixed, I think.
I think removing Hitler/Goebbels quotes from an obscure game is worthwhile:
it stops any association / any *Debian encourages Nazism* and means that we
don't have to worry about hosting it anywhere at all.
It is always worthwhile to remember that Debian is worldwide, is used by
people of all ages and sensibilities and has a set of values.
Whether we need to apply those to every game / piece of content?
The discussion didn't seem to find full consensus but it wasn't intended as
censorship
Andy Cater
> --
> w@uter.{be,co.za}
> wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}
>
> I will have a Tin-Actinium-Potassium mixture, thanks.
>
