Re: Security guidelines for Debian people
* Thijs Kinkhorst (th...@debian.org) [05 08:57]: On Thu, November 3, 2011 18:44, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2011, Jakub Wilk wrote: * Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi, 2011-10-30, 17:33: Personally, I think some guidelines for DD's about securing their personal machines where their private keys are located would be a good idea. It would be a lot better than just having a vague and ineffable thing called trust. I agree. I offer the following as a first approximation, targeted specifically for key management. * These are meant to provide an idea of the minimal acceptable standard. * Store your master PGP keys on at least two USB thumb drives. This seems to suggest that having multiple copies of the PGP key Multiple *offline* copies, in an encrypted container. This thread reminds me of a Dutch management book entitled Managing Professionals? Don't do it![1]. We shouldn't prescribe how many copies of a key one should keep where in which crypto containers, or whether you should use an USB thumb drive, smart card or a floppy to do it. i agree, rules like that become silly, quickly. but if someone explains good best practice to me and motivates why it is better then the alternatives, and how to integrate it into your workflow and life, i certainly would be interested. DD's are technically competent people and are perfectly able to decide what adequate protection for their private key material should look like. They don't need the guidelines for that, in fact, they can do without the associated signal that there's a need that they be micromanaged about this. Indeed, I oppose the assertion that such guidelines are 'a lot better than just having a vague and ineffable thing called trust'. Trusting DD's to do the right thing is an important value for Debian. i agree 112%. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2005105133.gb6...@jesaja.schuldei.org
Re: Debian Logo Use
* Gunnar Wolf ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [080415 19:45]: Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try Ubuntu?/joke i dont think that is a reasonable approach. if testing quality is good enough and useful to people why would you hide away that it is debian under the hood by rebranding it? Why deny debian a good marketing opportunity where debian or debi can be found in other places then the debian/control file? I am in favour of using debian prominently for products derived from debian. the knoppix, xandros and ubunut effect should not become the rule but rather the exception. I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for being anal about stability. I dont agree here. there is a distribution testing, we make it available, it is from debian. So if people want to use it, let them and make it easy for them. it is their risk and they are grown up. It provides a lot of value, too: You get the most up to date software at an unparallelt stability, all the time, at no monatary cost. In my oppinion we should stop telling people NOT to use it but do the opposite. whoever needs a cutting edge distribution and loves upgrading real frequently is destined for testing in my oppinion. here upgrading works, even! There is a psychological problem in recommending a distro called testing as it implies lower quality, though. I would suggest to call it something fun and inspiring like perpetual-upgrade or so. /andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: test mail from ajt@ via [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Anthony Towns ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [071117 16:06]: If this were a real mail, there would be some useful content here. shouldnt it say if this WAS a real mail...? otherwise i like what you are doing currently. :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070529 13:57]: So, what is the solution, i ask you, do you see some way out of this ? I am all ears, ... i proposed a solution to you that would let you work on what you like and took care of the social complications. but that approach did not fit your own idea of solution, so you never even considered it seriously. you destroy the basis for further cooperation and alternative solutions in the meantime. I am sorry to see it happen. /andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Debian 4.1 will arrive... will anyone care?
* Wouter Verhelst ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070415 21:01]: I think testing already supports that to some extent, and that the bits where it does not can be worked on. Creating another branch does not seem like something useful to me. but it is requested a LOT by people who have to run stable (huge) installations with some new apps on top. php is a popular candidate to have from backports on a lot of big german hosters, for example. If they could help somehow they would, as debian is dominating the market completly and this is a very common problem. /andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: notable Debian contributions in 2006
* Martin Zobel-Helas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070324 17:45]: Read what i wrote you, and then speak again! or rather not. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Social Committee proposal text (diff)
* Wouter Verhelst ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070213 17:18]: I don't like this person, but I have to work with him in this project, so I would like to hide that fact from him/her. I don't want to rank him/her above NOTA, but I also don't want to have to explain that joke that problem can easily be avoided by running for office yourself. everyone will understand that you rank yourself highest! /joke -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Criteria for a successful DPL board
* Raphael Hertzog ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070212 11:03]: Hello, I've been talking about having a DPL board and I might want to go further and try the principles out by proposing a DPL board in the upcoming elections. So I'm explaining here how I expect such a board to work. Feel free to comment, ask questions and give suggestions on how to enhance it. Two criteria i find important (especially after last year's attempt to put together a strong DPL team) is a sense of unity and awareness for public appearence. For the record: You, Raphael, failed [1] in my book on both accounts and I see you unfit for a public position and especially cooperating with others in a team like a DPL board. I would ask you on behalf of debian to not run for office for those reasons. /andreas [1] when asked about who you would vote for you stated publicly that you would not think that I was a good candidate and you would rather vote for someone else, eventhough you were in my DPL team. It is perfectly all right to think that I was not the best candidate. It is also (less so) ok to say that you would vote for someone else, eventhough you could have avoided to say that without being dishonest. It is bad and demonstrates a lack of awareness for public appearence to say that someone you are supposed to work together with and support was a bad choice to vote for. Here i assume you were not trying to be malicious but only ignorant. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Criteria for a successful DPL board
* Sam Hocevar ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070212 18:27]: I beg to differ. I have a lot of disagreements with Raphael, to say the least. He will definitely not be at the top of my ballot (although I shouldn't say that until every candidate has shown up) for many reasons. However, if he gets elected and what he is proposing is set up and he asks me to take part in it, depending on what it looks like, I'd probably prefer to be inside rather than watch it from the outside, because he'll choose people I am perfectly happy to work with, including Raphael himself. And I don't give a damn about awareness for public appearance, if I suck I'd like to hear it even from people who work with me. It hurts but this is not kindergarten anymore, are we here to say pretty things to each other or to get work done? just to clarify my point: I am all for critical feedback, preferably in a friendly and constructive manner. To read it on a public mailinglist constitutes both a waste of bandwidth (as hundred of people who are not involved in your personal improvement also read it and it most likely also destroys trust which one needs to work together further down the road.Resolving personal conflicts and trying to help someone to improve as a person/leader/whatnot should happen privately rather then publicly on mailinglists. Awareness of public appearance IS important for the DPL or a DPL board, as what ever they say will and can be picked up by the press and will fall back on debian as a whole. To have a public infighting committee acting as Debian's board is a reciept for desaster and not going to help to inspire trust in users. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please appoint one new person to the DSA Team
* Bill Allombert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061221 15:12]: As I suggested in my DPL platform, having someone reading debian-admin who has no DSA priviledge but handle communication issues could help (by providing status and ETA, answering already asked questions, etc.) without interfering with the current DSA work. ironyoh, that is a new thought!/irony bill, this idea was investigated in detail and disregarded, as that person would basicly have the job to nag the people doing the job without being able to do any productive work. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: snapshot.d.n (was: Complaint about #debian operator)
* Andrew Saunders ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061220 16:20]: On 12/14/05, Andreas Schuldei [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually, NetApp (the storage company) and Intel (the chip manufacture) are solving this problem for us. we get a 7 or 10Tbyte storage from NetApp and two beefy servers to use as a front end for both CD/DVD generation and serving of CDs/DVDs as well as the debian meetings archive and other free software. Snapshot.d.o would end up on this storage server (cluster?), too. it will be located in Umeå, Sweden, where we will try to saturate the 2Gbits uplink with it. That site is run by the academic computer club of the local university, with Michael Wadenstein as the local admin. Well, it's been over a year now, and still no snapshot.debian.org... Any chance of a status update? yes, certainly. I am nagging the netapp person routinely (last 4 days ago?), and they are willing and friendly, but so far nothing regarding the upgrade has come out of it. The current status is that the department that has the loan/evaluation/give-away equipment needs to be convinced and then come back with an OK to let go of ~7TByte of storage to upgrade the machinewe have already. I would have prefered to report more eventfull and happy news. Thanks for your time even though no one can see it, there is quite a bit involved, on both ends. (c: /andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Extremadura work meetings evaluation
Now this year's developer gatherings in Extremadura are over. I would like to hear what people thought about these meetings. === What meeting(s) did you participate in? How effective were they? (0 = totally ineffective, 1 = very ineffective, 2 = fairly ineffective, 3 = neither, 4 = fairly effective, 5 = very, 6 = totally) In what way were they efficient? How could they be more efficent? Had you set yourself specific goals when coming? How well did you manage to achive your goals? (0 = failed completely, 1 = failed mostly , 2 = failed partly , 3 = neither, 4 = managed fairly well, 5 = managed very well, 6 = totally) How much did you enjoy them? (0 = not at all, 1 = quite unpleasent, 2 = fairly unpleasant, 3 = neither, 4 = fairly enjoyable, 5 = very, 6 = totally) How was the trip there (and back)? How long did it take (hours)? Did you pay your trip yourself? How much did you yourself spend on the gathering alltogether? Would you come again? Would you have liked to attend work meetings but could not? Why could you not attend the meeting(s)? === I will evaluate the answers (and try to get an evaluation of the extemadura folks, too) and will publish my findings on -project. thanks for helping! /andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Extremadura developer meetings: what was good, what can get better?
* Andreas Schuldei ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061217 19:45]: Hi! could you please help me to refine this mail to make the answers more relevant? the goal is of course to learn how happy people were with the meetings and how they can be improved. But also what was good, so we can keep it that way. du, this was a mail-screw-up. iintented to send this mail to a single individual but failed to edit the mail headers once i had copied his email address from an other mail. sorry. I try not to clutter lists with half-cooked stuff normally. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hardware for Debian people
* Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061209 14:46]: aparently this can be worked around if the machine is owned outside brazil and is only hosted there. so somehow e.g. fiis could own the machine and have it hosted in .br. Stratus, could you please try to find out further details or find out who would know? joey, could that work? Assuming that you refer to ffis e.V. I guess so, but you should uh, sorry, yes. contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] when you definitifely plan to go that way. will do. Thinking about this, it should be no problem to own and export a machine on the german side. I will try to find out more about that, though. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How could we give away Debian CDs/DVDs for free?
* Andreas Schuldei ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061016 18:19]: * Jason Spiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061016 03:15]: What if we found some way to give away Debian CDs/DVDs to whoever wanted them for free through the mail, like Ubuntu does? i have tried to find out how much this would cost. aparently the posting of CDs/DVDs is the really expensive part. things like cutting corners by producing CDs on every continent and distributing them regionally seem to be inpractical due to poor quality of some CD/DVD producing locations. Furthermore CDs/DVDs were not as shit-cheep as i had expected; i think a CD was ~20cent (not sure, have my notes not here), DVDs were more. that was not correct: a CD is 14cent or down to 8cent if you buy numbers (like 100k), while a DVD would be 29cent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How could we give away Debian CDs/DVDs for free?
* Jason Spiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061016 03:15]: What if we found some way to give away Debian CDs/DVDs to whoever wanted them for free through the mail, like Ubuntu does? i have tried to find out how much this would cost. aparently the posting of CDs/DVDs is the really expensive part. things like cutting corners by producing CDs on every continent and distributing them regionally seem to be inpractical due to poor quality of some CD/DVD producing locations. Furthermore CDs/DVDs were not as shit-cheep as i had expected; i think a CD was ~20cent (not sure, have my notes not here), DVDs were more. for the amount of CDs and DVDs we would expect to hand out (100k?) we would need some kind of professional distribution company. I approached one such company and asked for help, which is pending. anyone have lots of money for this? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Call for a new DPL mediation ... This will be the only thread i will reply to in the next time about this issue.
* cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060620 11:02]: judging from that Sven was definately in the wrong, of course that log doesn't give any explanation at all of Sven's side of the story, so it doesn't give enough information to get a complete picture. if you start only now to form your picture you seem to have hidden under a rock for some time. the goal in this is not to find ѕomeone to blame or find out who is in the wrong, but to decide on a way to get debian to waste less time and get relevant stuff done. not following useless discussions is good, if you keep to that rule and not come in at the end of some (like this) discussion and make it start over again. To me it looks like you came out from under your stone just recently and share your thoughts for a change. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: irc.debian.org
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 04:47:22AM -0500, Peter Samuelson wrote: [Wouter Verhelst] Only if they're lucky enough to try to ask someone who has NOIDPRIVMSG disabled. And as for Debian development, I receive even fewer private messages related to that. Do the rest of you? What aspects of Debian development warrant private conversations? I would think most things would be appropriate to discuss either in public or in small, focused channels. I get and send a lot of /msg in my debian releated work. for me this is a reason to favour a move to oftc. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: irc.debian.org
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 02:24:52PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get and send a lot of /msg in my debian releated work. for me this is To users who have not been long enough on the network to register? no, not to those and not to those others that feel that they are made to jump through hoops and neither to those who left already. only to the rest. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: irc.debian.org
On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 01:50:41AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about well after the OFTC formation. If there are that many people dissatisfied with freenode, it seems likely that there are How many? Let's add some data to the thread: i would be interested in the number of netsplits. do you have a diagram for that, too? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
* Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-02-27 14:52:16]: * Andreas Schuldei [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-08 21:08]: Intel is so generous to provide Debian with ten notebooks (besides some server hardware), which we would like to give to developers in developing countries who It would be nice to see a list of people who received those laptops and what they intend to do with them with regards to Debian. i forwarded the list of people who were nominated (and nominated themselfs) to the intel person, along with the mails that were exchanged in this context, and background/recommendations supplied by third parties. currently i honestly dont know who ended up with the notebooks and one candiate was not fond of the idea of his name being made public. The number of 10 notebooks was cut back to 3 because debian had received quite a number of heavy server boxes this term, so there were several candiates per notebook. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
wanted: intelligent barcode scanners for debconf
the company with these cool programmable wifi barcode scanners http://amltd.com can not lend us any for debconf6 (eventhough they would like to, normally). Is anyone aware of something similar linux and wifi based, so that I can approach them and ask them to lend us some? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Linux Forums
* Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-01-24 06:47:02]: On Tuesday 24 January 2006 00:33, Andreas Schuldei wrote: But nobody else would use them , so how would this help them? How is this different from the debian-newbie list idea that comes up from time to time, other than being an even less desirable interface for use? To me you come across a bit arrogant and with a dont-care attitude towards unexperienced users. Go read the social contract again and pay special attention to the bit about our priorities. Note that we dont dictate our users how they should advance to be more knowledgeable. If they prefere webforums give them webforums. If you dont care to participate, dont. They still can help each other and share their knowledge and advance that way. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Linux Forums
* Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-01-22 09:11:56]: Mark Daher wrote: Hi, My name is Mark Daher, owner of LinuxForums.org , I would like to make my site the official forums of the Debian since there aren't any, helping people with Debian, etc. Did debianHELP, Planet Debian and debianforum.de recently close? why ask this question? couldnt you check for yourself? do you try to turn away recources and help? if yes, why? do you think debian does not need any more help and is good as it is? why do you think there is no need for improvement? debian is rather weak in these forum based support structures, which attract a lot of new linux users. other distros are doing much better in that regard. i would think more debian focused ones, with a lifely community and competent people would further debian. more such forums would help more. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Linux Forums
* Alexander Wirt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-01-22 11:04:57]: Andreas Schuldei schrieb am Sonntag, den 22. Januar 2006: * Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-01-22 09:11:56]: Mark Daher wrote: Hi, My name is Mark Daher, owner of LinuxForums.org , I would like to make my site the official forums of the Debian since there aren't any, helping people with Debian, etc. Did debianHELP, Planet Debian and debianforum.de recently close? why ask this question? couldnt you check for yourself? Mark asked for being the official forum and told there were no other. Its not okay for $forumhoster to be the official debian forum while there are several other. ah, ok. i missed that meaning entirely. I read no, please not yet another forum, we have 3 and those are enough! into it. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Linux Forums
* Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-01-22 09:11:56]: Mark Daher wrote: Hi, My name is Mark Daher, owner of LinuxForums.org , I would like to make my site the official forums of the Debian since there aren't any, helping people with Debian, etc. Did debianHELP, Planet Debian and debianforum.de recently close? what about maintaining a list of debian forums on the debian website, saying something like this: ...and if you like to use webforums you can go here, there or over here. While not being being maintained by the debian project or frequented by DebianDevelopers they might still be usefull for getting help. the differnet languages could point to debianforum.de, debianhjälp.se, debianasdfaa.cx etc and the international ones even. the work of maintaining the list could be done by ... the people who translate? ok, not sure who would be interested in doing this. But this could be a constructive way to deal with the problem. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: snapshot.d.n (was: Complaint about #debian operator)
* martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-14 12:10:30]: also sprach Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005.12.14.1142 +0100]: I believe this is due to snapshot.d.n having lost a considerable amount of its archive. As those patches were generated from the packages ... this makes me wonder why Canonical has not stepped in to support snapshot.d.n. Fumitoshi is doing a great job, but s.d.n is beocming more and more difficult to handle, and apparently more and more mission critical. I have tried several times in the past to do something to help Fumitoshi, most recently speaking to switch.ch about mirroring/hosting. However, the endeavour failed due to lack of funds. If s.d.n is used by Canonical to meet up to their promise to give back to Debian, maybe they should consider providing these funds? actually, NetApp (the storage company) and Intel (the chip manufacture) are solving this problem for us. we get a 7 or 10Tbyte storage from NetApp and two beefy servers to use as a front end for both CD/DVD generation and serving of CDs/DVDs as well as the debian meetings archive and other free software. Snapshot.d.o would end up on this storage server (cluster?), too. it will be located in Umeå, Sweden, where we will try to saturate the 2Gbits uplink with it. That site is run by the academic computer club of the local university, with Michael Wadenstein as the local admin. Thanks again to the sponsors. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Please help: tasks descriptions
On http://wiki.debian.org/JobDescription Christop Berg was kind enough to start a list of tasks descriptions for some delegate positions in the project. (the misnomen job vs task is entirely my fault.) The goal of these descriptions is to seperate names and persons from tasks, to that is is no longer the Joe Random task/issue but e.g. the Release Team task description. That will hopefully lead to more objective discussion in the future. The Delegations (which we still work towards) will be better defined and hopefully more transparent and clearer this way, too. It helps if the task descriptions are detailed and specific. The additional times required for a given task will perhaps help to identify current bottelnecks and allow for better resource planning. Especially people who right now work on a given task are welcome to contribute the descriptions of what they do. It is them who know the job best after all. Others are invited to contribute, too, of course. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DPL-team issue page
* Florian Weimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-09-26 13:17:19]: * Andreas Schuldei: http://wiki.debian.org/DPLTeamCurrentIssues Is this list really exhaustive? Or do you consider it done once it's been delegated to someone? No, the list is not exhaustive. I just added the security team to the issue list (but should have done so some time ago already, once the meeting was sure to happen). there are other issues which are not on the list, since we believe that it would not do much good to talk about them yet. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
DPL-team issue page
since we (the DPL team) did not have formal meetings and minutes for a longer time and still want to maintain transparency we started a page in the wiki where we want to list the things we work on, as long as it helps to make them public. i know that *i* have been quite busy with dpl-team things in the past (once debconf was over) but i have a really hard time to remember bigger things that i did. there has been a lot of communication going on which takes up time... anyway, i am pretty sure i forgot several things on the list. http://wiki.debian.org/DPLTeamCurrentIssues signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DPL-Team meeting minutes 2005-04-24
* Noèl Köthe [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-09-09 09:29:26]: Am Freitag, den 29.04.2005, 11:23 +0200 schrieb Andreas Schuldei: Meeting of 2005-04-24 This was the last report of the DPL-Team AFAIK. Weren't there any meetings since April? No, there was none. It proved hard to coordinate everyone's schedules. we switched over to an asyncronous meeting/discussion scheme which works very well but is not minutes friendly. someone had the idea to use a wiki to list outstanding/current topics and produce result wiki pages once we managed to resolve issues or came to conclusions. We should just start that. /andreas signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DCC usage of Debian trademark
* Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-08-21 20:19:53]: On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 12:35:39AM -0400, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 11:15:11AM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote: OK, I'm convinced. I will call Ian on Monday and urge him to take the name Debian out of the group's title. There are many other possibilities, including altering other components of the name or making them an official Debian project. I'd encourage you to coordinate your communications to Ian with Branden's delegate for representing Debian's trademark interest in this issue. (Check -board for the name of this delegate; I don't want to breach privacy by repeating it here.) The name of the Debian leader's delegate on a Debian-related matter is an SPI secret? no, but the DPL left it to the delegate to reveal his identity himself. the fact that he did not do it here yet is most likely a sign that he did not get around to it in the last 12h. (i think the delegation is not much older then that.) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Pledge To Killfile Andrew Suffield
Debian is a technical project and a social group/community. We have the nm process to help people to become well versed for the technical challanges. We dont yet have a social nm process and dont need it mostly. In my oppinion that is because most people try to fit in, cooperate and get along on their own or at least listen to their peers when they are asked to do so. Andrew, please take this as an incentive to change for the better and conduct yourself less hostile on IRC and mailinglists. Others before you have managed. I for my part have not put you into a box you wont get out of again. Instead I hope to see you develope some intuition for the feelings of others, and respect them. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: snapshot.debian.net
On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 10:37:48PM +0200, Adrian von Bidder wrote: I wonder if snapshot shouldn't be promoted to an official debian.*org* service in recognition of its value to the project. Summarizing the discussion so far: [...] an interesting data point would be how much the service is used. could access statistics be made available, please? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Surveys in debian
after reading your feedback regarding my campaining effords I would be interested in what kind of things you heared about me. I would not really care about names, more about incidents or whatever. an other thing that i would like to ask you about is a more in-detail analysis of debian as a social group. I have a church background and i came accross a church growth tool which tried to benchmark 8 characteristics of any given church (look at my mail to -project about this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2002/11/msg00213.html at debconf3 the following year i gave a talk about this, arguing also why this research could be applied to debian. the church-research group was done with a strong statistical background and they try to identify the bottleneck(s) of the group and work to remove the greates bottleneck to enable it to develop further. my platform basicly contained my own, personal assessment of what debian's bottlenecks are. this research group tries to identify bottlenecks in groups by doing a survey of 30 involved people, asking them about those 8 key characteristics. they do need to calibrate these surveys for each country and then compare the results of a given church with their availale reverence data. here is a whitepaper explaining this process better: http://www.schuldei.org/report.pdf do you think this could be applied to debian, as a more scientific way to help us to develop our social side? Would you even want to work on this? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Surveys in debian
sorry, this was meant to be a private mail to MJ Ray. i am not really interested in public discussion of this topic at this point. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: http://forums.debian.net in beta
* Martin Michlmayr ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [040909 12:56]: * Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-09-09 12:47]: multiple webforums out there for Debian, of varying popularity. AFAICS, the debianHELP one[1] is the most popular, being started about two years ... forums.debian.net is currently nearly-empty, it is yet to gain momentum. Well, we could just point forums.debian.net to debianHELP... Starting forums.debian.net didn't take much more time than an 'apt-get install phpbb2' takes, I see I failed to properly search for other It's not about installing the software but getting a community established around the forum. If debianHELP has done that already, maybe you should just work with them. (Just giving random good advice; I don't use forums and don't know how good debianHELP or others are.) i see a problem in the branding. debianhelp.org is not the intuitive domain i would look for. i would expect a .debian.org address to be the real place. cant we point forum.debian.org at debianhelp? it would not need to be in any way trusted as far as security is concerned. irc.debian.org is not, either.
Re: Debian Question Regarding Postgresql Replication
* cbeasley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031127 08:13]: Before I proceed with attempting to compile and test feasibility of the various projects available I wanted to know if there has been any solution successfully implemented within the Debian OS to your knowledge. are you looking for replication done on top of debian? i cant serve with that, replication is rather new and was not available when the project we worked on was implemented. i can say some nice things about postgresql in general, though. the person implementing the database schemas had not worked with open source much, just with bigger solutions like oracle etc. he liked postgresql`s standard complience (to modern standards, even!) and was very impressed in general. the solution implemented is running for 1.5 years now, is rock solid and performs very well.
Re: Debian Question Regarding Postgresql Replication
* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031127 10:58]: On 2003-11-27 09:48:27 + Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin, if you can say nothing polite, say nothing. while saying things politely is generally better then coming accross bluntly, it is not a leaders job to be everyones buddy and tell them all the nice things they want to hear. it could be necessary and even more helpful in the longterm to point out personal shortcomings to people. i guess you two have a common history, so you know what martin aims at?
Re: integrity of elections
* Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030324 18:09]: Am I the only one, apart from the gentoo/sorcerer crowd, who feel that innovation in Debian has slowed down? Not at all. I for one (and i personally know of many more) agree with you. I have a few ideas how that came to be and what we can do about it. That is why i would like to speak on Debian as a social group at debconf. I believe we have the potential to become the kick-ass Linux/Hurd/BSD distribution we wish for and some others are afraid that it might come into beeing. How to get there is an interesting and chellanging endevour, which requires motivation and involvement of as many as possible. I agree with you that voting is an indication of these requirements.
Re: A Debian Who is Who
* Joachim Breitner ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030216 16:11]: And what is so wrong with transparency that Damog had to call me shitty? Or was there some irony I did not get? i found that also strange. #debian-project is there for exactly these kind of questions and there is enough about debian that can not be work related.
Re: Debian as a social group and how to develop it better
* Andreas Schuldei ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [021127 00:58]: empowering leadership gift-oriented cooperation and work enthusiasm for the group's goal functional structures holistic small groups need-oriented advocacy loving relationships inspiring meetings groups that rate high in all of these areas have been found to be growing and thriving. They are much fitter then groups where one or more of these areas are underdeveloped. This approach can also be used to identify and remove the bottleneck for further growth. the most effective way to grow (both in quality and quantity) is usally to remove this bottleneck by finding ways/strategies to develop this minimum factor. i forgot to mention that what i wrote here comes from my limited perspectiv. I am aware that i percive things differently then others, and differently then they are. i would like to invite people to * think about this * find more examples in their surrounding within debian * check if this presented perception is realistic * ponder where it (the concept of the eight characteristics, the examples) is wrong, what is wrong and how it can be corrected * try to find distinct ways to transform debian as a project along these lines in a global sense * try to find what YOU can do to increase debians fitness in these eight areas in your surrounding (microscopic perspective) * consider if it would be a good thing if more debian developers read this and thought about this. If yes, ask three people you know and who did not read this allready to do so. * finally let others know the results of your considerations
Debian as a social group and how to develop it better
I have been reading books about group development and would like to share the thoughts about appling this to debian. The book identified several different, interconnected state variables for groups: empowering leadership gift-oriented cooperation and work enthusiasm for the group's goal functional structures holistic small groups need-oriented advocacy loving relationships inspiring meetings groups that rate high in all of these areas have been found to be growing and thriving. They are much fitter then groups where one or more of these areas are underdeveloped. This approach can also be used to identify and remove the bottleneck for further growth. the most effective way to grow (both in quality and quantity) is usally to remove this bottleneck by finding ways/strategies to develop this minimum factor. I would like to go through these state variables, explain them a little further, apply them to debian and give examples. Empowering leadership It is obviously more important that leaders are good planners, communicators and people persons then that they are excellent technicans. The most distinct difference between good and less good leaders is their ability to enable the others to do their job well and give them authority in their area of responsibility. They coach and councel the few who they are leading directly, not micro-managing each and every one. It is important to notice that there are several leaders in big groups on different levels, not just one, above all others. Debian seemed to have elected mostly technical persons as their DPL, with the result that their success to innovate and reach their goals was limited. In other areas delegates of the DPL try to let no one interfere with their area of competence, while they, as leaders themself, would be wise to find others interested in their center of competence and in turn educate, train and empower them. (here the keyring management comes to my mind) Other delegates do just that and they seem to have better success to recute new people and the result is some self-organizing and much more resiliant structure. In the case of people resigning from thier job, there are others taking up the tasks, being trained on the job since long. (the listmaster group seems to work along these lines.) talent/gifts-oriented cooperation and work Different people have differnt gifts and knowledge , needs/personal goals and ways to work. Obviously they will work more dedicated on tasks where these three come together can be combined and the results will be better. Not so surprisingly people working this way feel much greater gratification, too, and will be better motivated in the future, to do work in this way. It would be the task of the individual to find out about his own preferences, talents and goals and the task of the leadership to help finding the right job for him. In Debian this is the driving force for most things, i feel. People fix things that disturb them and package things they need and get something done for the greater good on the way. Often people put their emphasis in debian work in areas where they feel they are especially able and most try to expand their knowledge even further. THe new maintainer process tries to help along nicely. Enthusiasm for the group's goal if an individual burns for something and is excited about it, that helps to compensate for some shortcomings in other areas. it mobilizes additional engery and makes live more enjoyable. If a whole group does this together and has a common goal, and tries to fan the flames (no flamewares now!) or at least tries to keep the enthusiasm from subsiding, this can develop great long-time persistancy and motivation. This increases the attractivness of the group to the outside, too. During the NM process the understanding of the social contract and the GNU part of Debian is checked for. it is hard, but not impossible to check for the actual enthusiasm of people. What debian has not managed well in my point of view is keep enthusiasm alive or newly create it. You can see that in the large number of people who became Debain developers and dropped out over time. some Debian longtimers are beginning to show signs of burn-out. the technical commitee is one example. If someone quits and says: i have not enough time for debian anymore he actually is stating that the priority which he gives debian is no longer high enough and that he is not excited about it anymore. functional structures This point deals with the official and inoffical ways how work is done, how information flowes, how decisions are reached etc. The more scaleable and flexible these structures are and how well they fit the needs to cope with reality indicates how well a group is at this point. Do the existing structures make the work that needs to be done easier, or do they create friction? Groups that managed to create a good leadership with sub-leaders and sub-sub-leaders are normally better scaleable (self
finding a consensus (was: why Ian Jackson won't discuss the disputes document draft with me)
i think in the present situation (both sides getting really worked up on the topic, it became a personal issue, the discussion starts being about beeing right and no longer about finding a solution) it would make sense to let someone else take over the draft and integrate suggestions. I propose bdale, who as the DPL should be respected by all and has plenty of live experience, and given he is married and has children, also knowledgs about resolution of disputes.
Re: LWN subscription for the Debian Project
* Henrique de Moraes Holschuh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [021006 05:19]: On Sat, 05 Oct 2002, Branden Robinson wrote: Would you be interested in donating an LWN subscription to the Debian Project? Heck, I propose we acquire such a license, actually... (yes, I am currently subscribed to LWN). i second that.
