Re: Debian GNU/Linux license violation
It has been a month (admittedly not a long time for this kind of issue). I wrote to the company (PhotoVu) about this and received no reply. I also wrote to gpl-violations.org and got no reply. Did anyone here end up hearing about any action? -- gomi On 9/5/07, Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 08:35:26AM -0700, Gomi No Sensei wrote: -- Forwarded message -- The following email is self-explanatory. The device sold at www.photovu.com is based on a modified Debian, but the company will not disclose the source. snip While (to the best of my knowledge) Software in the Public Interest, Inc., is not a copyright holder in any portion of Debian GNU/Linux, this is still a matter worth bringing to SPI's attention. SPI owns certain U.S. trademarks, and it is conceivable that retaining trademarked Debian logos in a derived product while not honoring the copyright licenses on the software comprising Debian GNU/Linux gives rise to a civil cause of action against PhotoVu. Accordingly, I am CCing the SPI Board of Directors. A courteous letter from SPI's counsel setting out these issues may be all that is required to achieve PhotoVu's compliance. Bradley Kuhn and Eben Moglen have frequently counseled tact and patience when pursuing apparent GPL violations. Assume ignorance or misunderstanding until and unless that assumption is unsustainable.
Re: Debian GNU/Linux license violation
Dear Mr. Robinson - Thank you for your reply. Per a previous email from Mr. Wolf, I am copying my reply to this list. First, thank you. Also, I am aware that no vendor needs to release proprietary software that runs on Debian or any GPL'd code, nor do they have to provide copies of unmodified releases. As you note, this does not seem to be the case here. As regards the other points/questions: 1) I do own a PhotoVu PV1965, so I can speak as a customer; 2) I have a copy of their documentation, etc, and have looked at the most recent copies on their website -- they do not include in any documentation, on their website, or anywhere else a copy of the GPL, or any notice that it is included. While my understanding that passing along the text of the GPL was required, I certainly will bow to more complete or correct knowledge. However, they do not provide any software distribution at all with their product -- no CD, DVD, etc, and none is available on their website. Further, their software update process is done via SSL, so there is no way to even capture a copy of that; 3) I have asked them for a copy of the software, for the root password to gain access to the device (the one I own) to see what was on it, or for any information whatsoever about their software load, and they have provided none, other than one sales droid saying it's customized Debian, and not available; 4) While their most recent release was in July, I suspect you are correct that they do not use GPL V3 licensed code, though this may change; 5) I have alerted gpl-violations.org, but have not received a reply; 6) I am happy to provide real-world contact details to anyone who needs them. I don't have an axe to grind here, and PhotoVu's extreme measures to physically protect their box (it is welded closed!) are likely to prevent any useful work on this system, but I thought someone ought to know. Thank you in advance for anything you choose to do. Gomi On 9/5/07, Branden Robinson wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 08:35:26AM -0700, Gomi No Sensei wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Gomi No Sensei [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sep 4, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: Fwd: PhotoVu Inquiry: 48889582 - 17 Frame, Open-source To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following email is self-explanatory. The device sold at [3]www.photovu.com is based on a modified Debian, but the company will not disclose the source. The quote is: We will never have an open platform as we do not have the resources to support such an open product in the field. It's not that we wouldn't like to, as we believe in open source and in fact use a customized base debian distribution with the addition of all our custom software on top. The last reason is why we weld our units shut and the aluminum metal must be cut and drilled to open it up! PhotoVu does *not* have to release source code of works they release in binary form to any third party *unless* they fail to accompany their digital photo frames with the corresponding code on a medium customarily used for software interchange. I am quoting the requirements of section 2b) of version 2 of the GPL[1]. (I am also assuming that the code PhotoVu is using is not so fresh that it has any portions licensed GPL version 3.) The GPL also does not require the vendor to *tell* you if their product ships with corresponding source code, though if they deceive you and you are a U.S. resident, you may recourse to the consumer protection laws of your state, or the state of Colorado, where PhotoVu claims to be incorporated[2]. Given the tone of the email, I suspect they don't provide complete corresponding source code as required by section 2b of the GPL2, and since they have refused you in your capacity as any third party that source code at any price (section 2c), I find reason to pursue a potential license violation here. The best way to find out is to find a PhotoVu customer ask learn from them if they received either the complete corresponding source code on a DVD-ROM or other medium (2b) or a written offer, valid for three years for the same (2c). To follow-up on something Gunnar Wolf said: While (to the best of my knowledge) Software in the Public Interest, Inc., is not a copyright holder in any portion of Debian GNU/Linux, this is still a matter worth bringing to SPI's attention. SPI owns certain U.S. trademarks, and it is conceivable that retaining trademarked Debian logos in a derived product while not honoring the copyright licenses on the software comprising Debian GNU/Linux gives rise to a civil cause of action against PhotoVu. Accordingly, I am CCing the SPI Board of Directors. A courteous letter from SPI's counsel setting out these issues may be all that is required to achieve PhotoVu's compliance. Bradley Kuhn and Eben Moglen have frequently counseled tact and patience when pursuing apparent GPL
Debian GNU/Linux license violation
-- Forwarded message -- From: Gomi No Sensei [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sep 4, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: Fwd: PhotoVu Inquiry: 48889582 - 17 Frame, Open-source To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following email is self-explanatory. The device sold at www.photovu.comis based on a modified Debian, but the company will not disclose the source. The quote is: We will never have an open platform as we do not have the resources to support such an open product in the field. It's not that we wouldn't like to, as we believe in open source and in fact use a customized base debian distribution with the addition of all our custom software on top. The last reason is why we weld our units shut and the aluminum metal must be cut and drilled to open it up! -- Forwarded message -- From: PhotoVu Sales [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sep 4, 2007 7:04 AM Subject: Re: PhotoVu Inquiry: 48889582 - 17 Frame, Open-source To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Sean: Please see answers below. Thanks for your interest in PhotoVu. *PhotoVu Sales *[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (303) 444-5566 Boulder, CO www.photovu.com *out of the shoebox onto the wall* Sales @ PhotoVu wrote: Below is your PhotoVu Inquiry Confirmation email. Please ensure that your SPAM filter ALLOWS emails from PhotoVu.com. Inquiry Number: 48889582 Contact Information --- Sean McManus -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 360-665-2502 WA US Subject --- Sales - 17 Frame, Open-source Question I am a consultant, and have a client who has asked me to evaluate and acquire a solution for an internal signage application. The opportunity is initially for 20-25 frames. I have seen your frames in use before, but had a few questions. off-topic section removed 2) I am aware that your platform is Linux on a VIA embedded system. The client's application would likely require some minor customization to the frame -- possibly filtering of an RSS feed or special scanning treatment of a network folder (the application is not yet implemented). Despite searching your site, I have not found any detailed information about the Linux implementation or about accessibility to the internals. Please advise on this. We will never have an open platform as we do not have the resources to support such an open product in the field. It's not that we wouldn't like to, as we believe in open source and in fact use a customized base debian distribution with the addition of all our custom software on top. It's just that we can barely keep our head above water supporting our current base of users (which our non-technical consumers) (that's why we finally have started to generate a knowledge base). Opening our product up to hackers would present a support nightmare, not to mention the product liability of somebody electrocuting themselves. The last reason is why we weld our units shut and the aluminum metal must be cut and drilled to open it up! Supporting RSS feeds from several different service providers with ever changing feed specs has not been trivial nor do we expect it to be in the future. We are working on a MAJOR software upgrade to be released this Fall, which will support digital signage, as it's a market that is growing for us and finally seems to be heating up. For q 20-25, we would be willing to make the necessary modifications for you if it's something we thought we could leverage, while we are working on this software piece. We have a lot of customers using our frames in digital signage. I hope you will still consider being one of them. We are a small company and think you find us easy to work with and most likely be able to make your modifications quickly for you. Regards, PhotoVu Sales PhotoVu Response Policies - We take each request very seriously and try to respond within one business day. Many times, you will get a response within hours. Thank you for your interest in PhotoVu! If you have any questions about this inquiry or would like to talk with a PhotoVu representative, please contact us using the following: Web: http://www.photovu.com Phone: +1.303.444.5566 Fax: +1.303.374.2737
