Re: Authorizing minor expenses by DSA without prior DPL approval
Josh Berkus wrote: On 09/12/2013 10:17 AM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 12/09/13 at 09:58 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: On 09/12/2013 04:46 AM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: DSA does not need to wait for DPL approval to make such expenses. The DPL will always approve such expenses, provided that the total outstanding amount spent in advance of DPL approval never exceeds US$400. $400 over what period of time? Over no specified period of time, other than until the DPL approves the expense. So the brake against possible craziness is the DPL approval, not a time-limit. That will be very hard for the SPI treasurer to track, so you'll need to be aware that SPI can't realistically enforce the policy. Leaving aside that the DSA can request reimbursement from the other NPOs. Why should they? Lucas was so clever to write in his approval: | 4. DPL approves. To my understanding SPI still requires a DPL approval, just as it is now. For SPI there shouldn't be a real difference to the current process. For the DPL the difference is that he only needs to be concated in stage 4 and not in stages 1-3 and 4. Regards, Joey -- ( ) go ahead, you can blog everything in this mail ( ) please don't blog the personal stuff in this mail ( ) this conversation never happened Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130912211911.gk6...@finlandia.home.infodrom.org
Re: [Debconf-team] Budget status - travel sponsorship)
Holger Levsen wrote: as I've said several times already, the hardest part is finding people doing whatever the best procedure for this is. The problem with that is that DebConf is quite a lot of work for the team for 2-3 months before the conf, then the conference itself and then cleaning it all up, which usually also takes weeks (*). For myself this probably equates to working 1.5 month full time on DebConf (just during that time). Then there is a time of DebConf break, until we get into the bid-phase, which ends (in January/February) with the actual decission where the next DebConf will be in 1.5 years. So thats another 2 months of quite intense DebConf time. And around that time (January/February) the improved travel sponsorship team would need to start working... So adding another period with lots of work 6-7 month before the actual conference is certainly possible (because we can certainly distribute the load more, eg by more people doing the debconf team work), but you should not expect this to happen just because you propose a saner traveling sponsoring scheme. As the saying goes, talk is cheap. Are _you_ willing to make this happen? Haven't there been lots of volunteers for the next DC in this thread? :) Regards, Joey -- GNU does not eliminate all the world's problems, only some of them. -- The GNU Manifesto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120706095543.go2...@finlandia.home.infodrom.org
Re: debian
Jimmi Nielsen wrote: Hello. i have a small problems with my debian server. alle files are permission 644, so i cant change anything on it. how can i change it back with root login. i have try but it say Permission denied Please ask your question on the user oriented mailing list debian-u...@lists.debian.org Regards, Joey -- A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems. Paul Erdös -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100725192933.go31...@finlandia.home.infodrom.org
Debian Booths (was: Debian money)
Jan Hauke Rahm wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 05:04:42PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote: * Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt h...@ftwca.de [2009-09-10 16:01]: Steve McIntyre lea...@debian.org writes: 4 Marketing stuff: a box(es) of equipment to take to stands at various shows and expos. Might be useful, but could be expensive. Where do we store it/them? Who organises shipping? I think this is something which we should pursue. I generally have the impression that the Debian booth is relatively boring, while other projects seem to be better in properly decorating, displaying their products and attracting interest. We should definitely work on that - currently, the Debian project booth is usually just like prejudices against Debian: Highly technical, unattractive and of no interest to new users. Full ack, on the conferences I visited I always found the booths of other distros way more attractive. I don't think we need to discuss the perfect Debian booth here but maybe it makes sense to collect some improvement ideas in order to get a better feeling about how much money would be needed. ATM I can't think of anything that's too expensive to buy. What are we missing for a more attractive Debian booth? Improving Debian booths should most probably discussed on the events lists such as debian-events-na and debian-events-eu I would say. If these discussions result in a need for booth material to be produced please talk to the DPL about sponsorship. When the proposals are good, he will most probably agree to spend some money on them. Regards, Joey -- There are lies, statistics and benchmarks. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Introducing http://news.debian.net
Ana Guerrero wrote: Hi, I have setup http://news.debian.net/ where I intend to publish and link information related to what is going on in the Debian project. If you want to submit news you think it is interesting for developers and users, you have several ways listed at: http://news.debian.net/submit-news/ If you are interesting in knowing my motivations for this site, please read: http://ekaia.org/blog/2009/08/03/introducing-http-news-debian-net/ Out of curiousity, why not feed times.debian.net with these articles? Regards, Joey -- MIME - broken solution for a broken design. -- Ralf Baechle -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Creating a public list for wanna-build team? Input needed.
Adeodato Simó wrote: Hello, I'm sorry to use this list for this purpose, but I'm not sure where else I could go for interested parties to comment, since the set of people potentially interested in this is not concentrated in some other, less generic list. In #512780 (http://bugs.debian.org/512780), we've requested the creation of a debian-wbadm list to serve as a role address and discussion umbrella I'd prefer debian-wb-admin@ as name in order to make it less cryptic. I appreciate a public list and would prefer it to be hosted on lists.debian.org over teams.debian.net. Regards, Joey -- Debian automatically detects USB sticks. This is so non-Debian. -- Joey Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: FINAL call for votes for the Lenny release GR
Adeodato Simó wrote:
(Bcc secretary@ in case he doesn't follow -project and cares about this.)
Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote:
When sending email from role addresses, I think it's better if the real
name of the person is used, together with the role address itself,
rather than using the role name (which is alread embedded in the
address). This gives you immediately information that otherwise you have
to obtain from the {gpg,} signature.
... which doesn't match against $r...@debian.org in most cases...
but matches against the real name of the person acting on behalf of
the role.
Regards,
Joey
--
Of course, I didn't mean that, which is why I didn't say it.
What I meant to say, I said. -- Thomas Bushnell
--
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Re: Where are the mails to my debian.org address?
Oohara Yuuma wrote: [please Cc: to me because I am not subscribed to this list] Can anyone tell me what is happening on my debian.org e-mail address (ooh...@debian.org)? About a month ago most of the mails from that address disappeared. Now the only mails I receive from it are those from the debian-private mailing list, which is strange considering all the spams on the internet. I can't even receive the mail I send to ooh...@debian.org. I don't think this is a wrong configuration of mail forwarding. The mail from cha...@db.debian.org says emailForward: ooh...@libra.interq.or.jp, which is a working address. The reason is that your receipient server is counting spam not filtered out on your Debian account since you haven't configured any spam filtering in LDAP. You can try for yourself: master!joey(pts/4):/var/log/exim4 telnet mx.members.interq.or.jp smtp Trying 210.157.1.30... Connected to mx.members.interq.or.jp. Escape character is '^]'. 220 mx14.mem.interq.net ESMTP ready at Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:25:42 +0900 (JST) HELO master.debian.org 250 mx14.mem.interq.net Hello master.debian.org [70.103.162.29], pleased to meet you mail from: j...@debian.org 450 5.7.1 70.103.162.29: 450 You have been blocked for sending SPAM or similar. Connection closed by foreign host. Regards, Joey -- Reading is a lost art nowadays. -- Michael Weber Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Developer Status
Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote: Do you think a Debian voter would not be interested on other areas? Not to be an expert, but a very simple tests could be useful, and not the test for usual packers. If somebody is *interested* in something they will teach themselves. The Debian project does not need to assume somebody could be interested in something and force them to learn it. Regards, Joey -- Life is too short to run proprietary software. -- Bdale Garbee -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Developer Status
Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote: Joerg Jaspert wrote: Developer Status I start loving more this proposal. Debian is about developing a free operating system, but there's more in an operating system than just software and packages. If we want translators, documentation writers, artists, free software advocates, et al. to get endorsed by the project and feel proud for it, we need some way to acknowledge that. This is where our proposal comes in. Debian is mainly software and package, so a full (voting) member should have some knowledge to our package system. Documentation, Translation, User support, Events and stuff have nothing to do with packaging. Debian community members mainly being active in these areas should be granted voting privileges as well. They wouldn't need package upload privileges, though. To cite an extreme example, Ingo Juergensman doesn't do packaging nor anything of the above. Nevertheless, he's an active member of the Debian community for many years (even despite severe problems) by supporting the m68k port with hosts and maintenance. He should be able to vote on general Debian issues such as the project leader. Regards, Joey -- If nothing changes, everything will remain the same. -- Barne's Law -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Developer Status
Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote: To cite an extreme example, Ingo Juergensman doesn't do packaging nor anything of the above. Nevertheless, he's an active member of the Debian community for many years (even despite severe problems) by supporting the m68k port with hosts and maintenance. He should be able to vote on general Debian issues such as the project leader. This is an interesting point. Do you thing Ingo Juergensman could not pass a simple test on packaging or on BTS? He could anyway ask ftp-master to have upload right removed. Why should he do a packaging test? Why should translators of the website? They do not intend to do packaging. Regards, Joey -- If nothing changes, everything will remain the same. -- Barne's Law -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and non-free
David Paleino wrote: I was frightened by your message until I realized that it was not your message but one of Sven??? please don't forward messages that you don't endorse (in particular when it contains wrong claims). Ok, sorry for that :) However, I still believe that censorship is a BadThing©, and everyone should be given the chance to speak. But, well, I don't know what happened with Sven and I don't even want to touch the topic. It's not censorship (that's only Sven Luthers view that he seems to state in nearly every mail he sends to others), its a ban for well published reasons. If you are interested in this topic, please read the relevant mails in the mailing list archives, mails mostly by Sven Luther so you are able to evaluate his current mails, and most importantly the statements by the listmaster and dam teams. Solely believing Sven Luthers rationale is like walking on very very thin ice. Unless you do know the background, please don't emit statements like the one above. Regards, Joey -- No question is too silly to ask, but, of course, some are too silly to answer. -- Perl book -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FSF not considering Debian as Free (Re: Debian and non-free)
Filipus Klutiero wrote: domain name hosting non-free. Richard Stallman wrote: Thus, the debian.org site and the software in it should not refer to the existence of non-free.org in such a way as to suggest getting non-free software from there. I tried for years to convince Debian to do this, but I did not succeed. Translated to the current way things are done, this means that according to Richard, the Debian website or Debian refer to the existence of the non-free component in a way that suggests getting non-free software from there. I'm very curious what part of the website or Debian would be doing this for years, but I guess someone could ask Richard. non-free is mentioned on packages.debian.org non-free is mentioned in release documentation non-free is mentioned during the installer for users to add (I think) Regards, Joey -- Of course, I didn't mean that, which is why I didn't say it. What I meant to say, I said. -- Thomas Bushnell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mentions of non-free (Re: FSF not considering Debian as Free)
Filipus Klutiero wrote: Translated to the current way things are done, this means that according to Richard, the Debian website or Debian refer to the existence of the non-free component in a way that suggests getting non-free software from there. I'm very curious what part of the website or Debian would be doing this for years, but I guess someone could ask Richard. non-free is mentioned on packages.debian.org Does the mentions suggest getting software from there? There are download links, aren't they? Don't they suggest getting the software from there? non-free is mentioned in release documentation Does the mentions suggest getting software from there? Don't the release documentatino contain notices on how to tweak apt or the installer to install non-free software? non-free is mentioned during the installer for users to add (I think) It's not mentioned normally at least. Is it mentioned in expert installs? The installer provides a menu option to import non-free firmware from arbitrary media (good work btw.!). Regards, Joey -- Of course, I didn't mean that, which is why I didn't say it. What I meant to say, I said. -- Thomas Bushnell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and non-free
Sven Luther wrote: Well, it would have helped if : 1) we didn't vote a GR worded in such a way as to fully discourage the existing kernel team to work on the non-free firmware problems. [..] But this not being the way which was chosen, what do you expect ? In france we say qui seme le vent recolte la tempete. And let me say that this i a highly controversial point in debian, and because a few guys say it should happen doesn't mean debian will follow this opinion in a GR, as the previous non-free and non-free firmware GRs have shown. [..] Sadly, Sven Luther -- ( ) go ahead, you can blog everything in this mail ( ) please don't blog the personal stuff in this mail ( ) this conversation never happened -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian/copyright for files not part of the binary packages?
Raphael Hertzog wrote: They could have filed a bug if they think that the copyright file should be updated but rejecting the update is just wrong. There's nothing broken in the package. It's always good to tell other people what is right and wrong. I'm sure telling ftpmasters that what they do is just wrong improves the recognition of ftpmaster work, the relationship maintained with them and the trust people usually put in this team. Regards, Joey -- Still can't talk about what I can't talk about. Sorry. -- Bruce Schneier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fakeroot_1.4.3.tar.gz
Samir Patel wrote: Is there any was to get hold off this particular version of the fakeroot? Please use http://snapshot.debian.net/fakeroot Regards, Joey -- This is GNU/Linux Country. On a quiet night, you can hear Windows reboot. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Updated Debian Developers Keyring
Anthony Towns wrote: Not really an automated mail, but we can pretend. The following changes to the Debian keyring have been made: andete Added key: 062A20ADA62FF34A0DBE6FCD2A75E4D1B59BD712 [..] brlink Added key: 36471231FCDCB7A7DBBA935D5B3229580F1D92DA [..] micah Added key: 1130178AD4E90683B09B1EFF74905C458A5F4DA1 [..] toots Added key: 0872F2B38DEF6C06187342BD00B969AA1CA95D19 vanicat Added key: 9EBC79C5CECE61149C26FBD84669AAFCD09E8C0B vdanjean Added key: E71009150981FCD28A0BCA657EC8E2E36CC838D5 Do we now allow people who don't provide their realname to upload packages? Regards, Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reg Blind
Kevin Mark wrote: Hi Suzy, I am forwarding your request to the Debian-user mailing list, as that would be a better place to ask. The Debian-project list is for questions about the Debian project and not for help with using Debian. A link to [EMAIL PROTECTED] could also be a good idea, since there are the guys with more competence wrt. accessibility features and problems. Regards, Joey -- It's time to close the windows. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unidentified subject!
This is so rediculous. -- Of course, I didn't mean that, which is why I didn't say it. What I meant to say, I said. -- Thomas Bushnell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Maintainers
Hi! Anthony Towns wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 12:45:54AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 10:44:29PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote: Please follow your own rules. Thanks. Besides, and with a sharp different tone, if Debian Maintainers are a reality now ... It's not yet; remaining holdups are: - only one non-DD beta-tester to shake out bugs; I'd prefer two before announcing or having any uploads I'm not willing to personally take responsibility for If this is a holdup, why has the offer of Bart Martens to help testing the service with a separate key been rejected? Regards, Joey -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Maintainers
Joey Hess wrote: Joey Schulze wrote: If this is a holdup, why has the offer of Bart Martens to help testing the service with a separate key been rejected? Bart suggested that *I* drop the current DMs from the keyring, and put his key in it. Since as AJ noted only the ftp-master can modify the keyring currently, I told him I can't do that. I don't think Bart's offer to help with a separate key for testing was bound to the others being removed (although that may be a good idea on its own). Regards, Joey -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: message from Sven Luther
Robert Millan wrote: Sven also told me that if nobody will forward it, he will make it by the slashdot way. Whatever that means, I don't personaly think being publicly discredited by our mistakes is something we want as a community. It's also something we as a community cannot change anymore, and it's also documented quite verbosely on our mailing lists. Regards, Joey -- Life is a lot easier when you have someone to share it with. -- Sean Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Social Contract ten years on July 5 -- celebration?
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Tuesday 26 June 2007 22:54, Lars Wirzenius wrote: The Debian Social Contract 1.0 was ratified on July 5, 1997. That's ten years ago, about ten days from now. Anybody else interested in celebrating this a bit? What would be an appropriate way? I know it's a bit boring answer, but how about a press release? (About 10 years SC and Debian local groups celebrating this with beers in pubs worldwide...) ;-) If you add more content then it won't be that boring and may actually become interesting. Regards, Joey -- Given enough thrust pigs will fly, but it's not necessarily a good idea. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Paddy, *what* do you want? I'm missing any essense in your mails. Your responses to other people, however, clearly contain a certain troll level and more accusations that don't lead anywhere. (the accusations of the oters as well, fwiw). Regards, Joey PS: Could you stop sending HTML mail please? -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Patrick Frank wrote: On 6/8/07, Joey Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you want me to cry now like some of your friends, because you reply to my private email on this list? :) I have no idea what you're smoking, but you should stop it. My mail contained only text written by myself. It is a reply to a mail you sent to the list. Even if it would have been a private mail I had replied to, it still wouldn't have contained anything private since the mail I wrote and sent to the list, is written entirely by me. The situation is that a few developers are trolling _me_ as reaction to my public opinion, and based on that given hostile climate I reply. I now have severe reason to believe that you're really only trolling. Instead of answering my question (maybe it was too general?!?) you started accusing me. Maybe it's the GMail frontend that got you confused again over which email was public and which was private. I don't know. I don't use GMail. However, even if, after the first incident with Raphael's mail, you should have taken extra care. Whatever, I guess the discussion is over. P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better. Oh, how nice. Now I know, that you're a real troll. *plonk* Regards, Joey -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Discussing off-topic topics
Discussing off-topic topics Hi, I've noticed that from time to time some Debian affiliated people try to discuss topics on (partially) Debian resources that are generally off-topic and lack a proper forum for discussions. Would a mailing list with a strong off-topic focus help here? I believe it could, if discussion members would like to discuss there. If you have an opinion about this (either pro or contra), it would be helpful for our listmasters to decide the value of such a list to read it as comment to Bug#427218. Regards, Joey -- GNU does not eliminate all the world's problems, only some of them. -- The GNU Manifesto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: I am now making this request to you as DPL, that you investigate who was behind this action, and find out why it was done, and that it be publicly addressed. Sven, first of all, please restrict your postings to debian-project, Whyever should i do that ? Because Sam asked you? So, if you keep threatening me, like you just did, this only enourages me to continue, and escalate the issue. Oh my! It is not yet escalated? So, i ask you again as DPL, do something so that the agression and iniquity debian has shown me since a year is stopped, and we can all stop this. The aggression has been stopped. Nobody showed aggression and removed your account on the kernel team. It was an accident and it has been corrected since them. No aggression except yours. This is as easy as a public pronounsement on debian's part that it has erred in the way it has handled this matter, that i am not the sole responsible of it, and a lifting of the unjust sanctions against me. Sven, this will not happen. Learn to live with that. (not the d-i related ones, since we all know the d-i leadership are arrogant bastards who are not emotionally equipped to recognize they maybe share the fault and do the right thing). People who are emotionally stable won't say this about others... Regards, Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: Partially restored, i used to be kernel team admin, but that is not the point. If it's not the point, don't mention it so often. Thanks. Ok, but this was only the 'goute qui a fait deborder le vase', the bigger problem remains as a raw wound, for me, and for debian as a The - what you call - bigger problem has been discussed enough. More mails won't change anything positively with regards to it and you. You should accept this. Regards, Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 01:40:55PM +0200, Joey Schulze wrote: Sven Luther wrote: Ok, but this was only the 'goute qui a fait deborder le vase', the bigger problem remains as a raw wound, for me, and for debian as a The - what you call - bigger problem has been discussed enough. More mails won't change anything positively with regards to it and you. You should accept this. Then what will change it ? Nothing. what do you propose ? That you accept it. And no, accept your fate meekly and be silent, is not an acceptable resolution of this problem. Then you are doomed. And Debian is doomed as long as you're bringing this up again and again. I even proposed that this situtation be used as an experiment by debian, in order to setup an infrastructure to be able to solve future problems before they go out of hand. Maybe we should declare this as an experiment and be done with it? Worked for another issue as well. Regards, Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: May i ask you why there is no other solution ? What is it that makes it a total heresy to even propose we try to solve it fairly and honourably ? Because what you would accept is not acceptable for Frans and what Frans accepts is very obviously not acceptable to you. Thus, live with it and enjoy life without trying the impossible. Regards, Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: Is this so much to ask ? I ask this not of you, but of Debian, of you Joey, of all other readers. Yes. Thus, live with it and enjoy life without trying the impossible. Why is it impossible ? This is what i don't understand. Debian has Because what you would accept is not acceptable for Frans and what Frans accepts is very obviously not acceptable to you. Regards, Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 07:21:08PM +0200, Joey Schulze wrote: Sven Luther wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 09:36:47AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote: Sven, You may or may not have been mistreated but the volume of your arguments is disproportionate. There are millions of people who are being treated far worse and on an ongoing basis and I'd like to use what few spare cycles my brain has to worry about them rather than skipping over arguments about Sven. Possibly, but for two points : - i am not forcing you to read this thread, just as i am not forced to read each of the random flamewar which debian has had without me being involved. You are not forced to work on Debian and pollute its mailing lists either, yet still you seem to be doing exactly that. Why? Why can't i post on debian mailing lists, if it costs nothing but email archive space and some bandwidth, which is cheap nowaday ? Just because Technically you can. Maybe that's the problem. I assume that it's being worked on. You should not because you annoy people and demonstrate all the time that you're unable to accept other people's opinion if they don't exactly match your own. That's doing yourself a big disfavour. You don't believe this, I know. It's hopeless. you don't like what i have to say i should i have less right to the use of the mailing lists than you or others do ? Thanks for putting differnt words in my mouth. If you are unable to contribute anything useful couldn't you just STFU like everybody else? Or do you deny that this is a ways more important topic than the choice of code names, or seeing the d-i folk fight over usplash, or any other random thread on our lists ? You are writing bullshit. Everybody else notices this. Except you. Why should i have less right to post on the lists than others do ? The time will come when you will have less rights to post to the Debian lists. Just continue. Please tell me when i have been spreading FUD. I have always told the You are repeating that the request for suspension has anything to do with your DPL candidacy, yet there's no such proof. This is FUD. truth to the best of my knowledge, which has not been the case of Maybe your knowledge is not the best because it's based on the assumption that you know what others think? Yet you fail to realise that others are annoyed and offended by you and your actions. everyone here. As for dead horses, i am not dead yet. You're not beating yourself. Not sure if you should... true, but a pretty pointless one. As said numerous times, you would do yourself and others a favour stopping that. It is not my fault it is a pointless one. Why can't we take this Yes it is your fault. oportunity to finally handle this issue like it should have been from the start, and give debian a tool to really handle such social problems so it won't happen again in the future ? Because nobody has invented such a tool yet. And even if that will be the case in the future, I don't anticipate you to accept its handling of the issue. Hence, its existence doesn't matter at all. LET IT GO SVEN! I would therefore ask you to reduce the volume of your posts on this subject by at least two orders of magnitude. Sure, but what will it bring ? Contrary to the flood of mails it has the potential to calm down the situation, at least for people not named 'Sven Luther'. To what end ? So we can have this same mess in two weeks ? The so called mess is your flood of aggression, FUD and $whatever. Would be a solution, but the problem is that there is absolutely no will on the other side to even look at the problem, so i have no solution but to make a fuss to say that the current situation is unacceptable to me. The solution is you not having d-i commit permission. You don't accept this. Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My responsability : - I admit that the d-i team don't want to deal with me, too bad for debian and them. Great! Now stop this rediculous thread and start living again. Due to your behaviour you have also be suspended for a while. Not due to my behaviour, due to unaceptable full play, and irregularities in the expulsion procedure. This is not the same, and this is the truth nobody wants me to claim loudly. Yes, because of your own behaviour. Live with this. You are responsible for how you are treated, not only and always other people. Well, i think you are wrong. I know. You believe everybody is wrong and is after you. We all know that. You have expressed this numerous times. No need to repeat that. The irregularities around the expulsion procedure are hurting deban, and many are outraged by it, even though they remain silent. YOU are hurting Debian AND YOURSELF much more than the expulsion procedure could ever do. But debian can grow up, and learn how to deal
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: Care to give me a chance ? You've had your chances, Sven. You're restarting with the old pattern, always. you don't like what i have to say i should i have less right to the use of the mailing lists than you or others do ? Thanks for putting differnt words in my mouth. If you are unable to contribute anything useful couldn't you just STFU like everybody else? Like you are just doing ? Ok. I will shut up now. Live well. It was fun to work together with you a couple of years ago. Joey -- Never trust an operating system you don't have source for! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another level of agression ?
Bastian Blank wrote: On Mon, May 28, 2007 at 08:38:24AM +0200, Joey Schulze wrote: I can understand the latter. However, maybe it was just a mistake and waldi didn't want to remove Sven but accidently removed one line too much or something? He'll probably speak up and explain things. I already said that I can't remember. I know there was something about dilinger and wli but not more. So apparently it was an accident. Thus, mind adding svenl back to correct the mistake? Regards, Joey -- It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another level of agression ?
Sven Luther wrote: After some more pressure on IRC, your commit access has been restored. It is not enough, i want the suspension revoked, since it was a stupid decision, which has achieved nothing except worsen the situation, and was taken contrary to the DAMs procedure, and in a shady and mysterious way. Oh come on Sven! This thread was about the accidential removal of your kernel team commit access. It has been restored since them. The problem is fixed. Tell you what, if you continue trolling and ranting here, sooner or later your commit access will be removed *on purpose* with no way for you to get it back. This is not a threat but a warning. We know that you're not happy with the situation, but continueing to bring it up will not solve it either. Please don't reply and work on important things instead. Regards, Joey -- It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another level of agression ?
Sven, stop it already! We've seen this several times already. You're not bringing up anything new. You're not helping yourself if you continue. Regards, Joey -- It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another level of agression ?
Sven Luther wrote: Hi all, Well, in the ever continuing witch hunt against me, i just noticed, while i was working on a patch fix for the debian kernel, that i have been removed from the alioth kernel team. Have you asked on debian-kernel what's going on? Regards, Joey -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another level of agression ?
Sven Luther wrote: If it would be done to anyone but me, you would cry in outrage, then why not do so now ? Because there are too many hidden powers involved ? Thanks for knowing how I would react. Maybe I should ask you whenever I'm in a situation where I don't know how to act. But you did not stop in telling me how i should behave, made your diagnostic of madness, and asked me to see a psychiatrist, right ? Did you notice that there is a differenence between should and would and that it may be more than just a few bits? I belive you're wrong, fwiw. Then i would be happy to be shown wrong, but the facts have shown me that Debian has always gone out of its way to hurt me, so what do you expect ? Nothing anymore. Regards, Joey -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some thoughts on the ARM build daemons
Lennert Buytenhek wrote: (I also don't think that finding ARM silicon vendors willing to donate some man-power to the Debian ARM port would be very hard, either.) That's always good and helpful for kernel and toolchain work. Having some of these people around and jump in should the need arise, would be a good thing. Also, improving the arm port and installer to make it even fitter for embedded use and embedded hardware that may not be too familiar may be an appropriate goal as well. Regards, Joey -- A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems. Paul Erdös Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: stable / backports (Re: When Debian 4.1 will arrive... will anyone care?)
Bart Martens wrote: the only 'advantage' to using 'stable+backports' over 'stable+some packages from unstable or testing' is that you don't have that nasty label 'unstable'.(...) IMO, if you need a 'stable' system with some newer packages, you're better off learning how apt's pinning stuff works than bothering with backports. it's not hard. Backports are recompiled packages from testing, so they will run without new libraries on a stable Debian distribution. It is not always possible to install a package from testing without pulling in lots more packages from testing. Fwiw, backports also pull in newer version of certain libraries if they are needed by the backport. Regards, Joey -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Optical disk cover
Philippe Cloutier wrote: Does anyone know of any graphic/web work available on the debian project? Definitely. Others already proposed several things, I think we also don't have any optical disk cover for Debian 4... http://debian.semistable.com/cdcover.pl See http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2006/11/msg00045.html Regards, Joey -- Everybody talks about it, but nobody does anything about it! -- Mark Twain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#419642: New List: debian-infrastructure
Package: lists.debian.org I would like to establish a mailing list for infrastructure and service announcements. Name: debian-infrastructure / debian-infrastructure-announce debian-services / debian-services-announce Rationale: There is currently no way to inform developers and users about the downtime of internal and public services, important configuration changes of Debian hosts etc. Short description: Announcements about the Debian Infrastructure Long description: This list covers announcements about changes in the Debian infrastructure including services the Debian project directly or indirectly provides. Category: Users / Developers Subscription: open Post policy: moderated in the same way as debian-devel-announce (i.e. every developer is allowed to send GPG signed mail) Web archive: yes I would like to see information such as the following be distributed via this list: . alpha buildd is moving, downtime expected . IPv6 available for security servers . ftp-master moved to new bandwidth donator . New sparc porting machine added to the network . volatile archive moving, down for one day . backports now supports packages for etch and sarge ... The name of the list is discusseable, of course. Regards, Joey -- Long noun chains don't automatically imply security. -- Bruce Schneier Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Expulsion process: Sven Luther - Decision
Sven Luther wrote: So, after Andrew Suffield, after Jonathan/Ted Walter, it is my turn, because i Before everybody starts to believe this, Andrew Suffield has not been expulsed either. Regards, Joey -- Life is a lot easier when you have someone to share it with. -- Sean Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Expulsion process: Sven Luther - Decision
Sven Luther wrote: Joey, if i came back in a year, at the minor difference between me and others, it would be he is backsliding again, and another round of this mess. This entirely depends you your own behaviour. I hope you're doing well in the meantime and can come back relaxed. Regards, Joey -- Life is a lot easier when you have someone to share it with. -- Sean Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Letter to Anthony Towns about the d-i mediation ...
Sven Luther wrote: On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 12:01:14PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote: On 10830 March 1977, Sven Luther wrote: And thats the point you get wrong. No, you dont have a right to have svn access. You have the right to fork d-i and run your own, but no right to demand you get access to anything anywhere. Why don't have i a right to get access ? I am a DD as much as anyone, i do Whatever you are or have done (or anyone else), that makes no right to get access. It makes it possible to get it, but never ever a right. Well, i disagree with that. Fine. Could this discussion then *please* take an end? It won't help. Well, i disagree with that. Or rather, let's take it the other way around, i believe that the d-i folk have no right to withdraw the svn commit access. You could say, that by maintaining the repository they have the privilege to grant commit access and to deny commit access to whoever they consider, but that wouldn't make a difference, would it? That doesnt even attach only to you. Thats for everyone out there, as long as its not within a business and you are the boss... Yeah, it is a more profund question, of who the debian infrastructure belongs to. Does it belong to a small elite, or do it belong to the debian community as a whole. The d-i repository is not the infrastructure, it is a project upon the infrastructure. You are free to use the infrastructure in the same way and start svenl-d-i as several people have pointed out already. To start this project is a *right* you have. To have commit access to the existing d-i project or the potentially existing svenl-d-i project is a *privilege*. Please accept this *fact*. But rejecting someone or someone's work based on social conflit, to the Didn't you say that your last 20 or so patches to d-i were accepted? How is this rejecting someone's work? For what it's worth, every maintainer of a Free Software project has the right to review and accept or reject any contribution. If you don't like this, start a fork in which you accept all contributions. This is a right granted by the Free Software license. Regards, Joey -- There are lies, statistics and benchmarks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Letter to Anthony Towns about the d-i mediation ...
Sven Luther wrote: On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 12:53:40PM +0100, Joey Schulze wrote: You are free to use the infrastructure in the same way and start svenl-d-i as several people have pointed out already. To start this project is a *right* you have. To have commit access to the existing d-i project or the potentially existing svenl-d-i project is a *privilege*. Please accept this *fact*. And tell me please, how will maintaining a fork in any way help solve the social issue ? It will only make it worse, especially once i will ask that it is my version of the powerpc installer which will be included in the released material. I haven't said that a fork will help the social problem you and Frans have. All I have said is that it's your right to create a fork and that it's a privilege when the d-i maintainers grant you direct commit access. This is a mess, and issues are not as black and white as many want to make it. Fully agreed. And sorry, but this has been going on since over 6 months, why all those screaming on me to stop, don't invest even a part of that energy and tell the frans and co that they should maybe rethink their position ? Because this sucks and you *are* annoying everybody else because you don't want to accept that a privilege that was once granted to you is not granted to you anymore. It's sad that the main or one of the most important powerpc porters in Debian and the installer is not able to commit to the d-i repository directly, but if the maintainers of d-i believe it should be that way, then so be it. Just wanting to shut me up is not going to help there. Apparently. However, sadly, if you just would do it, it would help a lot. Friendly, Joey -- There are lies, statistics and benchmarks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Utnubu-discuss] Re: Ubuntu/Debian cooperation [was: Complaint about #debian operator]
Joachim Breitner wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 15.12.2005, 15:39 +0100 schrieb Sven Luther: The process was to be manually though, the idea is to scan incoming mails to the BTS, which would notice an URL to an ubuntu patch, and auto-attach it (and complain loudly to the submitter if the URL is bogus :). Sounds like a nice idea in need of someone implementing it. I don't think there is much gain - an attached patch is not much better than a link, and might annoy people with limited bandwidth. I have to disagree. A patch in the Debian BTS is a fix state. It will be there even when the remote site goes down, drops off the net, is reorganised, the file renamed or moved, or whatever. You'd have the benefit of everything at one place and only need to download the BTS mbox in order to work on this particular bug. Regards, Joey -- We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. -- Linus Torvalds Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
