(Further draft Social Committee text.) So what?
ef: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.debian.devel.project:12727 Archived-At: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.project/12727 See below. This is not yet ready for promulgation by Sam but I think it more or less reflects what was discussed in Edinburgh. Sadly it has come out _far too long_. If anyone can produce a much shorter way of saying these same things I'll be very pleased. Failing that I might have a go with a scythe myself. And when _something_ good will be done WRT problems[0] and not bureaucracy? [0] BR #431145 (with some perfect [EMAIL PROTECTED]) In case somebody wonder: just it from reading BTS ML. ohshit(really); -- -o--=O`C #oo'L O ___=E M -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ban on svenl established.
On 2007-05-29, Cord Beermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I'm sad to make this announcement, but i see no other way to stop the flood of mails on debian-project. I'm very sad to see this has happened. This list on 2+ months has ~800 (823 atm) messages, while for example LKML ~28000. Sven is a strong, man. I would be proud to have a friend like he, unlike most of those, who *just* replied. While i don't count names, it's very upset situation. I didn't see hundred DDs on replies, not talking about a thousand somebody proudly noted. Yet this small group of bureaucrats can't handle ~220 messages in all threads, Sven was involved. I feel very sad after what i've read here. I wonder if this will be published in not-so-weekly Debian Newsletter for all subscribed DDs *and* users to see this crap. They certainly don't follow much of the traffic in many lists, thus they are in pink glasses about issues like this one. As someone wrote, and i agree, better to prove something by just having fun coding, doing something useful. Even after kick in face or waist-low punch from a friend. Isn't easy thing to do, yet better, that to waste time with thin-bloods. Sven, we must went back to fun -- not to work as new DPL just pointed out. In this case better with pink glasses back and lessons learned. I wish you happiness and good feelings for the best mood ever. Eh, you, ``developers''... -- -o--=O`C #oo'L O ___=E M -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian, Iceweasle, Firefox!
26-01-2007, Piotr Dziubinski пишет: [] Hi, Pete. I'm very irritated and disappointed with your policy! Why? I've used various Linux distributions for 8 years. I've been using Debian for the last 6 months, but today I changed my mind! Poor man ;) Seriously, i've had enough from mozilla/firefox long ago: screen, lynx, slrn, mutt are my friends. See? No hands... ups X Window, it's magic! Ex-Debian user... ... back to the Gentoo Farewell. --=_Part_37477_14195182.116985293 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I#39;m very irritated and disappointed with your policy! Why?brbrI#39;ve used various Linux distributions for 8 years. I#39;ve been using Debian for the last 6 months, but today I changed my mind!brbrAfter updating Firefox in Debian I realized that Firefox is no longer present in my operating system! brInstead of it, I have this trashy and shity Iceweasle.brF.u...k, #%amp;[EMAIL PROTECTED] 5^%^*(@ %$amp;$%amp;^$brbrOki, I can install my favorite Firefox from other packages, but do you realize, that I would like to be asked if I want to use this f..u...k...ng %^*( *amp;##$$ ^amp;^%amp; Iceweasle instead of Firefox? brbrGood luck with using losers... ups I mean: losing users! :PbrbrEx-Debian user...br... back to the Gentoobr --=_Part_37477_14195182.116985293-- Thanks for nice copy of sh1t. Good bye. -- -o--=O`C info emacs : not found /. .\ ( is there any reason to live? ) #oo'L O info make : not found o (yes --- R.I.P. FSF+RMS) ___=E M man gcc: not found`-- ( viva Debian Operating System ) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: possible solution for open source-closed source-problem?
On 2006-11-22, Johann Horwath wrote: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johann Horwath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.devel.project Subject: possible solution for open source-closed source-problem? Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:17:17 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.1 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_95,MDO_DATING2 autolearn=no version=3.0.3 hello, couldn't this be a solution for the big problem open/closed-source: the system should be basically only be open-source. I didn't read further. if there is a hardware, that can only be run with closed-source-drivers, the user should be informed. afterwards there should be a possibility to choose what should be done (ignore hardware/install open-source-software/install closed-source-software), and if the user chooses closed-source-software then he/she should accept an accordingly(license-)info (after the information the user should know, what's going on and that there could be some future problems like licensing-fees or similar). if the user accepts the license there should be an easy install/download-possibility of those closed-source-software, so that the user feels, he/she has a fine system. :-) so the system (debian) is out of problems generally (imo), the user knows what could be problematic, the choice of closed-source-software is his/her responsibility, debian cannot be blamed, but the user can have a system that runs even flash, ati...-specialities... if he/she likes. the worst way, imo, is, to mix up open and closed-source. the best way is, imo, to clearly seperate everything and to let the end-user choose, what he/she would like to have on his/her own responsibility. * now as i'm here, i have - for a long time now - another debian-wish (it's generally linux, but i feel debian is the leading distro): linux tries to find everything by itself (hardware-recognition, driver install...). the user is not noticed until the install is ready. and then this poor one (and here i think of those not so experinced - like me :-( ) is often left alone with finding a (mostly difficult) way, to get special things to run (i remember the days, when my cd-recorder was only recognized as cd-player and i didn't find a way to alter this...). i would love an installation-process (and a hardware-recognition after installing) where i - the user - was informed about many (every?) thing. maybe there could be a list of all hardware that was detected, what categories this hardware is belonging to and what software is and could be installed to get it running. in this list, i - the user - should have the possibility to change things: maybe i have a dvd-ram-recorder and the system found only a dvd-recorder or similar. then i should be able to tell the system the better/the right categorie, so that the right software could be installed. this should be done in a similar way with adding users (what are the groups for,...) and with installing firewalls. and for each category there should be a list of possible software-packages, and i - the user - could take the ones, which fits best. maybe the installatin process would last a little bit longer, but the system would then be clear and transparent for everybody! everyone would know, what's running and why on his/her computer. this would be (will be??) a relieve in my life and i think for debian (linux) too. is this only a (my) dream? greetings hans horwath salzburg p.s.: i don't know, if i'm here right with my lines, but it seemed the best way to me. if not, please tell me where i should mail to go instead. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: possible solution for open source-closed source-problem?
On 2006-11-22, Hans-Georg Bork wrote: --=-Tkrv90Fo0ik9yoV0lB/f Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-11-22 at 19:51 +, Oleg Verych wrote: On 2006-11-22, Johann Horwath wrote: Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johann Horwath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: gmane.linux.debian.devel.project Subject: possible solution for open source-closed source-problem? Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:17:17 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Status: No, score=3D3.1 required=3D4.0 tests=3DBAYES_95,MDO_DATI= NG2 autolearn=3Dno version=3D3.0.3 =20 hello, couldn't this be a solution for the big problem open/closed-source: the system should be basically only be open-source. =20 I didn't read further. but you expect that your email about DFSG is read? If so, get the original mail and read further; if not, keep using Micro$oft. Thank you very much. BTW, my DFSG e-mail here (with added ref. e-mail) asks for ideas. If you have only this one. Thank you very much. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[user's view] about DFSG docs
Hallo. I'm new here; please, let me in. I've just saw on emacsen list message, that questions DFSG vs GFDL is more on topic here. Our developers alone fail against them and started non-free packaging. As ordinary Debian user, i decided to to write my own letter to FSF and GNU. Their sites were down for quite a long time (from my part of web), thus i've sent message to FSFEurope, and today bounced to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FSFe employee told me, that everyone here is aware of the problem, contact GNU project, we can't help you here, message was rejected. What a silly situation? If somebody here wish to show way how users can contact and bug FSF with GNU project, please give me idea. TIA. Message to them is added. From olecom Sat Nov 18 18:34:55 2006 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:34:55 + To: Freedom Task Force [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED], discussion@fsfeurope.org, debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Licensing (GFDL) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hallo. I'm _ordinary_ user of *Free* operating system, full name of which is `x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-debian'. I hope you know, what Debian is. Just in case: http://www.debian.org/intro/about What's DFSG? It's a way to apply real-life rules. It's much more that just to have a license in src directory and copyright note in every source file. Meet users of your software, it's Stallman's write down your modified version of recipe and share it with your friends. http://www.debian.org/social_contract What's result? Result is the most widely supported hardware architectures ever, the biggest repository of *maintained* packages. It just works: on servers and desktops (Debian), live (Knoppix and clones), it's host of new generation of distributions (Ubuntu and clones). Fair enough! Thus, you see, how Debian Free Software Guidelines led GNU+Linux to its users. Commercial distribution creators are far behind. Yes, some of them are playing significant role in software development, but i'm saying about quality of distribution here. That is next step, they realized. New brands: fedora, open*, free*, appeared. Non of which may be compared to the Free GNU+Linux Operating System Debian. Even Gentoo distribution turned to be just in one debian's packet called apt-build. Close your windows and you will see real Debian ! Debian+HURD, Debian+kfreebsd. Yes, and it works. Hell, what i'm talking about?!!! ,--*- shell -*- |[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ nc fsfe.org 22 |SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_3.8.1p1 Debian-8.sarge.4 | |[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ `-- (gnu.org, fsf.org currently down to check them) So, why i'm here? I'm asking for help, Force to meet Freedom. Developers of my OS fail to meet freedoms. They were proposing changes to GFDL v1.2, that could led documentation of some programs to be Free, DFSG Free. See my footer of nonsense FSF brought to proved Free Software Project. Less that one screen page of whole section 4 here http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001 will give you an idea what small changes are bringing down all FSF and GNU Project on this stage. o Forcing one GNU+Linux Operating System to be unable to develope, will led to unusable GNU Project. o Forcing people not to have DFSG Free documentation will bring more problems to RMS and his propaganda and brainwashing. This cost of Freedom is too high. Freedom to be free even from yourself is very big deal. Without new users, who can freely (debian/main) get and read manuals (currently!) of most comprehensive development tools, Debian will R.I.P. I can't find more words for that, what will happen. I'm pretty sure my note currently must give you a *big fat warning*. o main longterm glibc maintainer was forced to change license; o copyrights assigments in GCC lead some people not to contribute really new and useful stuff; o absence of license flexibility lead Linus Torvalds to write C front-end from scratch; and this guy really shows, us how to live with GNU GPLv2 in small scale of huge project of The Linux Kernel. I bet he can write C compiler from ground, just for fun. And there will be people on his size, note git source management system. Pray he will use Fedora Core further, not Debian. + I'm personally using jed editor now, and i can see, how it can become GNU Emacs killer (among others, of course). + GNU make. `apt-cache search make build | grep -i make` in debian/main. Please don't dig *your* grave. [ initially i've put only FTF e-mail, but it archives are restricted,] [ so, i'm adding discussion e-mail to Cc list. ] -- -o--=O`C info emacs : not found /. .\ ( is there any reason to live? ) #oo'L O info make : not found o (R.I.P. Debian Operating System) ___=E M man gcc: not found.-- ( TNX, RMS. ) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
