Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
Good evening Cord, Guten Abend Cord, Am 2008-12-29 14:20:10, schrieb Cord Beermann: Hallo! Du (Michelle Konzack) hast geschrieben: Tried to educate spamassassin for this kind of languages? yes. we do that already. see http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-listmaster/ which represents our running Amavis/SA-setup. For three seconds I was on the link above, but there is nothing visibel. I was looking in the CVS... Checked the Mailinglists... :-/ However, I had to disabel the language checks in spamassassin since it gaved me to many false-positive. I tried to describe the kick-policy at http://cord.de/blog/index.php?entry=entry080126-001137 OK... (Wo bekommet man das Script oben rechts für die VORRATSDATENSPEICHERUNG?) I also understood that people want to have information about how many bounces we counted for them. I'm just thinking about how to implement that and will include that in the bounce-warning-message. Thanks for your efforts Michelle Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # http://www.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
Hallo! Du (Michelle Konzack) hast geschrieben: yes. we do that already. see http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-listmaster/ which represents our running Amavis/SA-setup. For three seconds I was on the link above, but there is nothing visibel. I was looking in the CVS... Checked the Mailinglists... :-/ svn://svn.alioth.debian.org/svn/pkg-listmaster (Wo bekommet man das Script oben rechts für die VORRATSDATENSPEICHERUNG?) http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/Online-Demo I also understood that people want to have information about how many bounces we counted for them. I'm just thinking about how to implement that and will include that in the bounce-warning-message. this is now implemented. I hope this helps. Cord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
Guten Abend Cord, Am 2008-12-30 19:00:41, schrieb Cord Beermann: svn://svn.alioth.debian.org/svn/pkg-listmaster Hmmm, I can not connect... It seems, Telefonica/O2 and Bougues Telecom are blocking something (Wo bekommet man das Script oben rechts für die VORRATSDATENSPEICHERUNG?) http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/Online-Demo Danke... installiert. http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/ I also understood that people want to have information about how many bounces we counted for them. I'm just thinking about how to implement that and will include that in the bounce-warning-message. this is now implemented. I hope this helps. WOW!!! You are realy fast... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # http://www.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
Am 2008-12-27 16:55:58, schrieb Jeroen Massar: I already pointed this out the previous time I was complaining about getting unsubscribed. liszt.debian.org seems to run the same setup: postfix+spamassasin (though I dunno if you are using spamass-milter there, but you should otherwise); it seems also that my setup does know how to figure out that it is spam but yours doesn't. In how many languages do you receive messages? I get german, english, french, spanish, portugues, arabic, turkish and persian messages Some times I get korean and chinese to because I have business contacts there. Tried to educate spamassassin for this kind of languages? You have to tune this pig as the hell. They are not set high enough apparently, otherwise I would not get unsubscribed. See your archives, then you can easily count the number of spams and the amount. I think the threshold is at 5 bounces and then you have to confirm a message that the message was rejected in accident... The biggest annoyance with the unsubscribes is that you don't even notice it because you don't get a notification of it (though on the side of the list, you are supposed to be dead then). False, you get a message from the list system I have a bunch of them... But if you suppress the messages from the mailer-daemon... Oops! (I have already written, that I had to whitlist the E-Mail) Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # http://www.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
Hallo! Du (Michelle Konzack) hast geschrieben: In how many languages do you receive messages? I get german, english, french, spanish, portugues, arabic, turkish and persian messages Some times I get korean and chinese to because I have business contacts there. Tried to educate spamassassin for this kind of languages? yes. we do that already. see http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-listmaster/ which represents our running Amavis/SA-setup. They are not set high enough apparently, otherwise I would not get unsubscribed. See your archives, then you can easily count the number of spams and the amount. I think the threshold is at 5 bounces and then you have to confirm a message that the message was rejected in accident... No. please don't speculate about things. This only confuses people. I tried to describe the kick-policy at http://cord.de/blog/index.php?entry=entry080126-001137 I also understood that people want to have information about how many bounces we counted for them. I'm just thinking about how to implement that and will include that in the bounce-warning-message. Cord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
[ Nicely showing good will - Merry X-mas everyone! ] Don Armstrong wrote: On Sat, 27 Dec 2008, Jeroen Massar wrote: And yes, my SMTP server and those of a lot of other people will CORRECTLY refuse to accept mail classified as spam and correctly give a 500 SMTP error code as the server will refuse to deliver it. If you sign up for mail from mailing lists, just discard mail that you don't want to read that comes in from us with Priority: bulk or List-* headers instead of bouncing it. A mailing list is little more than a glorified mail forwarder: bouncing forwarded mail is wrong. As you are the package maintainer of spamass-milter, which is my weapon of choice for rejecting messages together with postfix (hey same setup as the list box! ;), please check the patch I just posted for spamass-milter which does exactly that: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=509901 Please apply so that a lot of people can thank you for resolving this issue. Now I only hope that people don't mind that the spam DOES end up in the archives, but heck, that is not my problem that you are linking to spamsites from there and advertising their products that way. Greets, Jeroen -- and now a couple of nasty comments on the reply: [maybe the Listmaster of the day is able to read when other people get involved in this] The listmasters are responsible for the lists. Sending mail to -project isn't particularly useful, as it's not on topic there. [For those on -project; this reply is going there just to see that someone has replied; I personally won't respond further, save via listmas...@.] In other words: public comments (debian-project is described as Discussions about non-technical issues in the project) are not welcome. Note that his is not a technical issue, it is a political one and clearly there are a lot of other issues at hand. I do hope they get resolved as Debian is such a great distribution to use. The politics though is really nasty. Further these comments are of course very helpful: [..] We aren't going to close the lists that are currently open in the forseeable future. If this is a problem for you, feel free to unsubscribe. Should I read this as we don't want your help, go away ? As you might have noticed, the unsubscribe already happens, fully automatically, by the list software, because it thinks one is bouncing because of the spams. (Above patch solves that bit). If you would change that little thing (making the lists post-by-subscribers only) then that spam would not get forwarded by the list because the spammers are not signed up in the first place Spammers have already signed up to our lists on multiple occasions. Then either your mechanisms for protecting against that are really bad or they did a custom job for it. Because we don't know that it's spam at the time we send them out, obviously. [And yes, this means that we're sending somewhere around 5% spam; we discard well over 99% of it, though, and we're constantly improving our setup to discard more and more of it.] I already pointed this out the previous time I was complaining about getting unsubscribed. liszt.debian.org seems to run the same setup: postfix+spamassasin (though I dunno if you are using spamass-milter there, but you should otherwise); it seems also that my setup does know how to figure out that it is spam but yours doesn't. Thus I'll recommend (again) the usage of: http://saupdates.openprotect.com/ That will really take care of your spam by adding a few more rules that are really helpful. And having to sign up every once in a while to a Debian list is really annoying because you get kicked off because you are forwarding spam. If you don't want to deal with the occasional spam that gets through, then feel free to unsubscribe. It seems this need for people to unsubscribe (and thus not being able to participate in Debian) is quite a hard tendency. Too many people already in the project and nothing to do or something? Or didn't get your new toys for xmas? I really hope that the Debian community at large is quite a bit more accepting to people trying to contribute to it. I still have a hope that it is the case, but sometimes (well a lot of times) I can only see the politics and not the technical merit anymore. Furthemore, the thresholds for automatic unsubscription are set fairly high anyway; the warning messages we send out are for your information only, as they often indicate mail misconfigurations at your end (or rarely, at ours.) They are not set high enough apparently, otherwise I would not get unsubscribed. See your archives, then you can easily count the number of spams and the amount. The biggest annoyance with the unsubscribes is that you don't even notice it because you don't get a notification of it (though on the side of the list, you are supposed to be dead then). Just turn on the subscribe-only bit already, that makes it easy for EVERYONE and solves all
Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
Jeroen Massar wrote: The politics though is really nasty. Yes, I agree completely. It seems this need for people to unsubscribe (and thus not being able to participate in Debian) is quite a hard tendency. Too many people already in the project and nothing to do or something? Or didn't get your new toys for xmas? Thank you for your contribution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PATCH for spamass-milter to solve Debian list spam-bounce issue (Was:- Spamming the World through Open Debian Mailinglists....)
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008, Jeroen Massar wrote: As you might have noticed, the unsubscribe already happens, fully automatically, by the list software, because it thinks one is bouncing because of the spams. (Above patch solves that bit). Unless you're also bouncing lots of legitimate list mail, or are subscribed to lists that send almost no legitimate mail, you won't be automatically unsubcribed. The thresholds are set relatively high to avoid this. it seems also that my setup does know how to figure out that it is spam but yours doesn't. If you're running SA later on mails than we are, you'll catch dynamic rules that have been added in between; the mail in question got 3.7 out of 4. That will really take care of your spam by adding a few more rules that are really helpful. We already run a huge corpus of custom rules. See http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/FAQ for more information. Don Armstrong -- Miracles had become relative common-places since the advent of entheogens; it now took very unusual circumstances to attract public attention to sightings of supernatural entities. The latest miracle had raised the ante on the supernatural: the Virgin Mary had manifested herself to two children, a dog, and a Public Telepresence Point. -- Bruce Sterling, _Holy Fire_ p228 http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
