Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 11:03:42PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote:
ask.debian.net is not taking anything away from you. You can ignore it
the way you ignore Debian web forums, for example. ask.debian.net is not
there to replace mailing lists, it is there to add to them, for those
who want to use it.
AOL.
It makes us look bad if there are bad answers or no answers there.
ask.debian.net seems unconnected to the lists - it adds nothing to them
and that's disappointing.
I wonder if you forget a at least for me in the last sentence or not.
It's a triviality that, for the mail only user, ask.d.n adds
nothing. But it adds a lot for the web user. Luckily, it also gets
nothing away from the mail only users—as Lars commented above—since I'm
confident not a single mail only user will move from a mailing list to a
web-based system like ask.d.n.
[ Interestingly enough, I find that it adds something for people like
me. I've never been into user-support for Debian up to now, simply
because subscribing to a mailing list like debian-user is a commitment
I find too high in terms of traffic, even if I divert it away to a
separate mailbox. On the other hand, I can't stand web forums. ask.d.n
offers me a nice way in-between as I can subscribe to RSS feeds and
easily ignore what I don't care about, without committing too much to
the medium. Net result: I've answered a couple of questions on
ask.d.n, questions who I would have never answered on debian-user or
forums.d.n. ]
But all in all, it's just about choice. Here we just have a couple of
people (who, by the way, are from the broader Debian community: I'm the
only DD among the current admins and I've hardly done anything more than
setting up the d.n DNS entry) who wanted to experiment with a new way of
providing user support.
Do-ocracy is still the main thrust in the Debian community: if there are
volunteers to set-up and maintain something like ask.d.n, it's only
*their* choice to do that. I'm sure many others are not interested into
it and that's fair enough. They can simply ignore that ask.d.n exists in
the first place as, say, I've ignored that forums.d.n has existed thus
far.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Caposella ...| ..: |.. -- C. Adams
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Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
Hi Tshepang: On Thursday 07 October 2010 19:02:39 Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 18:13, Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: [...] You ask a question, and someone answers. If you find the answer useful, you vote it as correct, and the answerer gets points for that. You also get email notifications if you so wish if you got a new answer. Go have a look and see (ask.debian.net). It's quite a good idea. That's knowledge by consensus. How it deals with nonsenses? I.e.: Q: I downloaded a script from the Internet and I can't execute it. A: cd ~ chmod -R a+x Hey, it works! I think I should mod up this guy. It's not a theoretical scenario: I visit Ubuntu forums from time to time and there's an ashtounding number of answers in the line of my previous example. Cheers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201010081318.47399.jesus.nava...@undominio.net
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
Hi, Stefano: On Friday 08 October 2010 10:22:24 Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 11:03:42PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: ask.debian.net is not taking anything away from you. You can ignore it the way you ignore Debian web forums, for example. ask.debian.net is not there to replace mailing lists, it is there to add to them, for those who want to use it. AOL. It makes us look bad if there are bad answers or no answers there. ask.debian.net seems unconnected to the lists - it adds nothing to them and that's disappointing. I wonder if you forget a at least for me in the last sentence or not. It's a triviality that, for the mail only user, ask.d.n adds nothing. But it adds a lot for the web user. Does it? With regards to any assymetric relationship, benefit is in finding common grounds. What I mean is, think of an extreme scenario, one where only newbies asking for help visit, say, a web forum with no expert over there. This extreme case would be worse than no help at all, since it would be bound to rise both cargo cult (I saw once a so called expert and he did something like this, though I don't know why, I know it worked) and bad practices (think of ten year old children explaining one another how babies are made). I for one would want an expert coming to my workplace instead of me, do for free my stuff and allow me to stay at home, but I know that won't work: if I want the expert advice I should go where the expert is, not the other way around. And for a utilitary/communitary point of view is better to cattle all the experts on a single place, even if it's not the best one, than split them away (I already explained my point of view about that in a previous message). Luckily, it also gets nothing away from the mail only users—as Lars commented above—since I'm confident not a single mail only user will move from a mailing list to a web-based system like ask.d.n. Not my experience. I did great use of NNTP and I still find it lightyears beyond anything else, including mail lists. But communities are basically expressions of the network effect, so here I am using a mail list. More on that: due to the popularity of web forums you end up with a lot of projects that rely *only* on them, even for things like announcing new versions or, even worse, having a mail list which is of no use but misleading people (since it's not used by the developers themselves). Do-ocracy is still the main thrust in the Debian community Do-ocracy is a great thing, probably the best way to drive achievements, but it's not free of problems, the most obvious one being that there's nothing within do-ocracy that ables the system to avoid self-destructive practices. As an extreme and crazy example, taking a gun and start firing people down is a meritable action from the sole do-ocracy point of view, while telling do not do that is not. Cheers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201010081339.20724.jesus.nava...@undominio.net
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Fri, Oct 08, 2010 at 01:39:20PM +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote:
Do-ocracy is a great thing, probably the best way to drive achievements, but
it's not free of problems,
That's correct. And that's why Debian is not a pure do-ocracy. Rather,
it's a society (which we call Project) in which do-ocracy can be
corrected via democracy. Please check the Debian Constitution for the
actual mechanisms you can use to trigger Debian democracy. A way in
between the two is trying to convince who is doing something to stop
doing that, but the default while you try, is that the thing they are
doing stays there.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Caposella ...| ..: |.. -- C. Adams
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Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
2010/10/8 Jesús M. Navarro jesus.nava...@undominio.net: Hi Tshepang: On Thursday 07 October 2010 19:02:39 Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 18:13, Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: [...] You ask a question, and someone answers. If you find the answer useful, you vote it as correct, and the answerer gets points for that. You also get email notifications if you so wish if you got a new answer. Go have a look and see (ask.debian.net). It's quite a good idea. That's knowledge by consensus. How it deals with nonsenses? I.e.: Q: I downloaded a script from the Internet and I can't execute it. A: cd ~ chmod -R a+x Hey, it works! I think I should mod up this guy. It's not a theoretical scenario: I visit Ubuntu forums from time to time and there's an ashtounding number of answers in the line of my previous example. And how does a mailing list get rid of that problem? Is it because there's more experts there? By the way, moderators exist to reduce such problems, and DPL is one of them. -- blog: http://tshepang.tumblr.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlkti=aryabfn+vqfiiqhxe+yxxd_hzuedyjikfa...@mail.gmail.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
I am going to be quite blunt. Please be forewarned. On pe, 2010-10-08 at 13:39 +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: Does it? With regards to any assymetric relationship, benefit is in finding common grounds. What I mean is, think of an extreme scenario, one where only newbies asking for help visit, say, a web forum with no expert over there. This extreme case would be worse than no help at all, since it would be bound to rise both cargo cult (I saw once a so called expert and he did something like this, though I don't know why, I know it worked) and bad practices (think of ten year old children explaining one another how babies are made). It is, indeed, entirely possible that an experiment in making the Debian community function better is not going to be successful. I don't know if the ask.debian.net site will be successful or not. It might fail, it might not. If it doesn't fail outright, it might still not be a good addition to the Debian ecosystem. Nobody knows that either. Yet. It is, however, a really bad idea to suggest experimentation should not be attempted because it might fail. The failure mode here is not catastrophic; there is no need to be excessively cautious. Painting doomsday images is uncalled for. This is stop energy, pure and simple. http://www.userland.com/whatIsStopEnergy This behavior pattern is one of the reasons why Debian moves less slowly than it could. We need to have room to experiment, and it needs to be OK to fail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1286542005.2755.147.ca...@havelock
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: I am going to be quite blunt. Please be forewarned. Likewise. It is, however, a really bad idea to suggest experimentation should not be attempted because it might fail. The failure mode here is not catastrophic; there is no need to be excessively cautious. Painting doomsday images is uncalled for. I agree with that. Enterprise is good and nice to see. However, equally, we should not lie and all say the emperor's new clothes are fabulous if they aren't. Some people seem concerned that ask.d.n doesn't connect to current support channels and I feel that's a legitimate concern, don't you? Looking more, it would also be very good to let disabled users know that they can use email lists instead, or log in to get rid of those evil eyesight and hearing tests (Google's reCaptcha). How do we do that? This is stop energy, pure and simple. http://www.userland.com/whatIsStopEnergy [...] Invoking Dave Winer as a support reference is the second biggest sign that an argument has been lost. Personally, the only thing I wanted ask.d.n's supporters to stop is making misleading statements like ask.debian.net is not there to replace mailing lists, it is there to add to them. As zack wrote, it is a triviality that it does not. Rather than suggesting people should shut up or making misleading statements about their concerns, I'd acknowledge the concerns, then maybe move on regardless, or consider how to address the concern if it's easy. Maybe a clear FAQ answer that ask.d.n is user-generated and any answers should be taken with care is as good as that could be, or maybe it can be hooked into existing support mailing lists somehow. I can't do it because I don't see an obvious way to subscribe to all answers. But ask.debian.net is an interesting experiment, after all. Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101008143836.debce50...@nail.towers.org.uk
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 07:49, Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@debian.org wrote: On Thursday 07 Oct 2010 01:12:37 Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: Ultimately, all this information gets publically archived/mined and serves as useful information. == One solution: all package maintainers subscribe to debian-user, and set filters on their respective packages. Would this be sub-optimal? That does not solve the problem. A year later, when a user wants to see all queries regarding a specific package, he needs to run through search engines and mailing list archives. Data that is not organized is useless. PS: Now that we have shapado running I hope we can soon do something to implement a QTS. Shapado is a form of QTS, in a sense that if someone asks the some Q, you can just provide a link to some answer from the mailing list, Also, in my case, I asked some question and the maintainer actually have me an answer (http://ask.debian.net/questions/default-python-for-debian-7-0). I know it's a trade-off, but your QTS sounds like overkill; it's yet another system. Rather, promote Shapado to package maintainers, and maybe they can subsribe to a tag or something. In fact, I like the format so much that Shapado should be THE place to ask Debian-related questions, just like StackOverflow is THE place to ask programming questions. note: THE doesn't imply ONLY -- blog: http://tshepang.tumblr.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktim3md=i4-pxnqebhnkcfbrawzq_amvtybqho...@mail.gmail.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
Hi, El jue, 07-10-2010 a las 09:32 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe escribió: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 07:49, Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@debian.org wrote: PS: Now that we have shapado running I hope we can soon do something to implement a QTS. Shapado is a form of QTS, in a sense that if someone asks the some Q, you can just provide a link to some answer from the mailing list, Also, in my case, I asked some question and the maintainer actually have me an answer (http://ask.debian.net/questions/default-python-for-debian-7-0). I know it's a trade-off, but your QTS sounds like overkill; it's yet another system. Rather, promote Shapado to package maintainers, and maybe they can subsribe to a tag or something. In fact, I like the format so much that Shapado should be THE place to ask Debian-related questions, just like StackOverflow is THE place to ask programming questions. You're right, it is possible to subscribe to certain tags using feeds :-) If a question related to the package foo have a foo tag, and if the foo's package maintainer subscribe to the foo tag feed, and if he/she answer questions about the foo package, Shapado will work as a QTS. If for example a package maintainer is responsible for foo and bar, maybe build a feed like: http://ask.debian.net/questions/tags/foo+bar Bad News: Not all the users use tags or use the proper tags. Good News: Moderators are able to retag questions. Bad News: If the system keeps growing (as we hope) the current moderators are not enough. Good News: Maybe we'll find more volunteers to help us as moderators. Regards, -- Fernando C. Estrada -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1286439164.2506.112.ca...@erinn.soapros.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
Hi, (fixed) El jue, 07-10-2010 a las 09:32 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe escribió: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 07:49, Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@debian.org wrote: PS: Now that we have shapado running I hope we can soon do something to implement a QTS. Shapado is a form of QTS, in a sense that if someone asks the some Q, you can just provide a link to some answer from the mailing list, Also, in my case, I asked some question and the maintainer actually have me an answer (http://ask.debian.net/questions/default-python-for-debian-7-0). I know it's a trade-off, but your QTS sounds like overkill; it's yet another system. Rather, promote Shapado to package maintainers, and maybe they can subsribe to a tag or something. In fact, I like the format so much that Shapado should be THE place to ask Debian-related questions, just like StackOverflow is THE place to ask programming questions. You're right, it is possible to subscribe to certain tags using feeds :-) If a question related to the package foo have a foo tag, and if the foo's package maintainer subscribe to the foo tag feed, and if he/she answer questions about the foo package, Shapado will work as a QTS. If for example a package maintainer is responsible for foo and bar, maybe he can follow questions with: http://ask.debian.net/questions/tags/foo+bar ...or with a feed like: http://ask.debian.net/questions/tags/foo+bar?format=atom Bad News: Not all the users use tags or use the proper tags. Good News: Moderators are able to retag questions. Bad News: If the system keeps growing (as we hope) the current moderators are not enough. Good News: Maybe we'll find more volunteers to help us as moderators. Regards, -- Fernando C. Estrada -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1286439604.2506.117.ca...@erinn.soapros.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
El jue, 07-10-2010 a las 03:20 -0500, Fernando C. Estrada escribió: Hi, (fixed) El jue, 07-10-2010 a las 09:32 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe escribió: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 07:49, Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@debian.org wrote: PS: Now that we have shapado running I hope we can soon do something to implement a QTS. Shapado is a form of QTS, in a sense that if someone asks the some Q, you can just provide a link to some answer from the mailing list, Also, in my case, I asked some question and the maintainer actually have me an answer (http://ask.debian.net/questions/default-python-for-debian-7-0). I know it's a trade-off, but your QTS sounds like overkill; it's yet another system. Rather, promote Shapado to package maintainers, and maybe they can subsribe to a tag or something. In fact, I like the format so much that Shapado should be THE place to ask Debian-related questions, just like StackOverflow is THE place to ask programming questions. You're right, it is possible to subscribe to certain tags using feeds :-) If a question related to the package foo have a foo tag, and if the foo's package maintainer subscribe to the foo tag feed, and if he/she answer questions about the foo package, Shapado will work as a QTS. If for example a package maintainer is responsible for foo and bar, maybe he can follow questions with: http://ask.debian.net/questions/tags/foo+bar ...or with a feed like: http://ask.debian.net/questions/tags/foo+bar?format=atom A user are able to ask in many languages, so the same example feed but just for Spanish questions wil be: http://ask.debian.net/questions/tags/foo +bar?format=atomlang=es-419mylangs=es Bad News: Not all the users use tags or use the proper tags. Good News: Moderators are able to retag questions. Bad News: If the system keeps growing (as we hope) the current moderators are not enough. Good News: Maybe we'll find more volunteers to help us as moderators. But maybe you're interested in the following [1]: track experts by tag: shapado automatically detects people that are experts in some fields. That is to say, if you answer a question about “kde” or “ruby” and get some upvotes, shapado will notice it. Then, if a question gets asked about “kde” or “ruby”, shapado will notify you so you can help people faster (the notification is opt-in). The goal is to turn shapado into a big IA machine that will know who knows about what so that when you ask a question, it will redirect the question to people who know about it. This is just the first step, we will bring this to the next level with our next version to be dubbed “skynet” ;) Regards, [1] http://blog.ricodigo.com/2010/1/13/new-shapado-update-badges-reputation-the/shapado -- Fernando C. Estrada -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1286440388.2506.123.ca...@erinn.soapros.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
[Fernando C. Estrada, 2010-10-07] You're right, it is possible to subscribe to certain tags using feeds :-) We can add ask.debian.net or shapado keyword to Package Tracking System and forward all pkg-foo tagged questions there (but only if shapado will start sending text/plain mails instead of HTML ones) -- Piotr Ożarowski Debian GNU/Linux Developer www.ozarowski.pl www.griffith.cc www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: 1D2F A898 58DA AF62 1786 2DF7 AEF6 F1A2 A745 7645 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101007093524.gp3...@piotro.eu
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:12, Fernando C. Estrada fcestr...@fcestrada.com wrote: Bad News: If the system keeps growing (as we hope) the current moderators are not enough. Good News: Maybe we'll find more volunteers to help us as moderators. Why let people elect to be moderators? Why not let them earn that honour by gaining reputation points? -- blog: http://tshepang.tumblr.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktik=j9dq9jh60u6j8j233eenwcdu7pk-+difv...@mail.gmail.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Jo, 07 oct 10, 03:33:08, Fernando C. Estrada wrote: track experts by tag: shapado automatically detects people that are experts in some fields. That is to say, if you answer a question about “kde” or “ruby” and get some upvotes, shapado will notice it. Then, if a question gets asked about “kde” or “ruby”, shapado will notify you so you can help people faster (the notification is opt-in). Can a regular user interact with Shapado just like with a mailing-list? At least the question and answer part, though voting up and down would also be great. Yes, I spend a lot of time on mailing lists mainly because I don't particularly like web interfaces. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 18:13, Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Jo, 07 oct 10, 03:33:08, Fernando C. Estrada wrote: track experts by tag: shapado automatically detects people that are experts in some fields. That is to say, if you answer a question about “kde” or “ruby” and get some upvotes, shapado will notice it. Then, if a question gets asked about “kde” or “ruby”, shapado will notify you so you can help people faster (the notification is opt-in). Can a regular user interact with Shapado just like with a mailing-list? At least the question and answer part, though voting up and down would also be great. Yes, I spend a lot of time on mailing lists mainly because I don't particularly like web interfaces. You ask a question, and someone answers. If you find the answer useful, you vote it as correct, and the answerer gets points for that. You also get email notifications if you so wish if you got a new answer. Go have a look and see (ask.debian.net). It's quite a good idea. Given all that, I'm still not sure if this addresses your question? -- blog: http://tshepang.tumblr.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlkti=dqkuk-t4bg-rh6wlpji+n0wlv-9wwknfkh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Jo, 07 oct 10, 19:02:39, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: You ask a question, and someone answers. If you find the answer useful, you vote it as correct, and the answerer gets points for that. How can I do that by mail only? You also get email notifications if you so wish if you got a new answer. Go have a look and see (ask.debian.net). It's quite a good idea. I already have and have seen similar webapps before, but I'm looking for a way to not use the web interface at all, like with the BTS (which doesn't even have a web interface). Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Thursday 07 Oct 2010 22:50:02 Andrei Popescu wrote: You also get email notifications if you so wish if you got a new answer. Go have a look and see (ask.debian.net). It's quite a good idea. I already have and have seen similar webapps before, but I'm looking for a way to not use the web interface at all, like with the BTS (which doesn't even have a web interface). Exctly my point. What all places can we expect people to track ? We already have: * Regular Mails * Mailing Lists * RSS Feeds Out BTS is so efficient because of the email interface. I can and will respond to emails in my mailbox. But browsing through pages daily might not be something I'll be interested for long. I like the way the LKML folks have organized their communication channel. First, of, CCing relevant and involved parties irrespective of their subscription status. Also the b.k.o comments are updated with regular email updates. Ritesh -- Ritesh Raj Sarraf RESEARCHUT - http://www.researchut.com Necessity is the mother of invention. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On pe, 2010-10-08 at 00:19 +0530, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Exctly my point. What all places can we expect people to track ? debian-announce for users, and debian-devel-announce for developers. Everything else is up to you. ask.debian.net is not taking anything away from you. You can ignore it the way you ignore Debian web forums, for example. ask.debian.net is not there to replace mailing lists, it is there to add to them, for those who want to use it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1286482982.2755.107.ca...@havelock
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: ask.debian.net is not taking anything away from you. You can ignore it the way you ignore Debian web forums, for example. ask.debian.net is not there to replace mailing lists, it is there to add to them, for those who want to use it. It makes us look bad if there are bad answers or no answers there. ask.debian.net seems unconnected to the lists - it adds nothing to them and that's disappointing. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. Webmaster, Debian Developer, Past Koha RM, statistician, former lecturer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for various work http://www.software.coop/products/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101007220342.6468c50...@nail.towers.org.uk
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
I like the ASK.d.n I believe, It is not for developers and not for advanced users or it's not for bug reports, nor add to the discussions. It sits between the user who does not know how to use mailing lists and operating system. The ASK.d.n will reply that a bug is handled in such a way and that discussions are handled through the lists debian. Citando Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@researchut.com: Exctly my point. What all places can we expect people to track ? We already have: * Regular Mails * Mailing Lists * RSS Feeds Out BTS is so efficient because of the email interface. I can and will respond to emails in my mailbox. But browsing through pages daily might not be something I'll be interested for long. I like the way the LKML folks have organized their communication channel. First, of, CCing relevant and involved parties irrespective of their subscription status. Also the b.k.o comments are updated with regular email updates. Ritesh -- ://ValessioBrito.info Comunicação e Tecnologia mobile: +55 71 VALESSIO -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101007223002.85792sj9ee8y5...@ssl.eumx.net
QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 06:31, Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@debian.org wrote: I think we need something where in we can inter-relate all communication. Something like Semantic Communication. I have written about this earlier but perhaps right now is the correct time and forum. Here's a use case example: == I am the maintainer for open-iscsi. You have a question/suggestion regarding open-iscsi. Apart from the other folks, I, as the maintainer, am one of the most informed person for this package. What we should have is a question tracking system similar to our bug tracking system. This QTS should also be a bi-gateway to the mailing lists. You use reportbug to file a query on QTS. I, as the maintianer, automatically receive the query. Also, debian-user and other relevant mailing list, gets the message. Users on those lists can choose to answer/ignore. Same way, I can choose to answer. An answer coming from the Package Maintainer will usually be more reliable. At the same time, the Maintainer does not have to answer every message. There will mostly be people responding from the QTS = Mailing List gateway. The Maintainer can also help here as a validator of information being spread about relevant packages. Ultimately, all this information gets publically archived/mined and serves as useful information. == One solution: all package maintainers subscribe to debian-user, and set filters on their respective packages. Would this be sub-optimal? -- blog: http://tshepang.tumblr.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikxpoeggh2y_xxjkvsxhzbncnjgr-tu0z-jb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Mi, 06 oct 10, 21:42:37, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: One solution: all package maintainers subscribe to debian-user, and set filters on their respective packages. Would this be sub-optimal? Unfortunately yes. In too many cases it is impossible to tell from the subject (or even body) if a specific message is related to a specific package. Even if you could, for some packages (think Gnome or Iceweasel) you would hit the same problem as with bugs: too many to sort... Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: QTS ( was Re: user support - Shapado instance for Debian)
On Thursday 07 Oct 2010 01:12:37 Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote: Ultimately, all this information gets publically archived/mined and serves as useful information. == One solution: all package maintainers subscribe to debian-user, and set filters on their respective packages. Would this be sub-optimal? That does not solve the problem. A year later, when a user wants to see all queries regarding a specific package, he needs to run through search engines and mailing list archives. Data that is not organized is useless. PS: Now that we have shapado running I hope we can soon do something to implement a QTS. Ritesh -- Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs Debian - The Universal Operating System signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
