Re: Entrepreneurial freedom for the Debian Partners Programme
On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 07:38:44AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Luca Filipozzi lfili...@debian.org [2015-04-03 04:52 +0200]: Consequently, I am in favour of a recognition mechanism that values both cash donations and service donations against the same scale, yielding a platinum/gold/silver/bronze type ranking that is reassessed annually. Something like: https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml Note that this pages splits financial and hardware donations, which I understand that you don't want, right? My primary concern is recognizing organizations that provide in-kind contribution to Debian (not labour, necessarily, but services). As I said in a previous post, evaluating in-kind donations against a financial scale is possible, albeit not always easy, and the evaluation depends on many factors, including our need and a suitable market price to use. I'm prepared to accept pro-forma invoices from commercial organizations, based on their published pricing. Although it could be argued that 1RU/1Gbps of hosting is the same no matter the location of the data centre, the reality is that pricing varies widely and attempting to normalize across markets is untenable. In other words, my measuring stick is what would it have cost Debian to put a server in that data centre, based on the published pricing. For academic institutions, we can find a corresponding commercial provider in their jurisdiction / country, perhaps. With regards to fundraising, I'm in favour of using a service such as crowdrise.com -- and only one such service -- even if that means paying 3-5% (plus credit card fees, if applicable). By leveraging such a platform, we can brand our donations portal, avoid managing multiple payment processor accounts, conduct campaigns (no, not spam ... more like earmark your donation for X or Y), etc. Yes, having a micro-payment service available for payments too would be beneficial. .oO( snowdrift.coop ) .oO( BitCoin ) Finding a single service capable of providing crowdrise-like features AND a very wide variety of payment mechanisms may prove difficult. That said, we can begin our search with this as a requirement. -- Luca Filipozzi http://www.crowdrise.com/SupportDebian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150403065725.ga3...@emyr.net
Re: Entrepreneurial freedom for the Debian Partners Programme
On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 10:10:11PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Luca Filipozzi lfili...@debian.org [2015-04-03 08:57 +0200]: I'm prepared to accept pro-forma invoices from commercial organizations, based on their published pricing. Although it could be argued that 1RU/1Gbps of hosting is the same no matter the location of the data centre, the reality is that pricing varies widely and attempting to normalize across markets is untenable. In other words, my measuring stick is what would it have cost Debian to put a server in that data centre, based on the published pricing. For academic institutions, we can find a corresponding commercial provider in their jurisdiction / country, perhaps. Absolutely, iff we need the hosting, then we can rank it according to market price. All of Debian's equipment is hosted gratis by one organization or other. However — I am not aware of prices for the type and volume of hosting required — but I'd be surprised if it'd slot in to the levels I'm imagining. I mean, look at https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml and think about the market price of some of the hosting offers we get. At most, they'd probably reach Bronze, if at all. And yet, it might just be that the admins there give us special access or support because they also use Debian etc. and suddenly you cannot weigh it up against purely financial support anymore. So I don't think the solution is quite that simple and I think we shouldn't rule out the possibility to just name in-kind donations as such, rather than to slot them in with financial scales. I'm not opposed to separate in-kind and cash donation rankings. Finding a single service capable of providing crowdrise-like features AND a very wide variety of payment mechanisms may prove difficult. That said, we can begin our search with this as a requirement. I'm new to crowdrise. What's the story? It's not that I'm a proponent of crowdrise in particular. Rather, it's the feature set that's appealing. There are several operators of similar tools. And couldn't crowdrise itself be (convinced to be) interested in supporting Debian by waiving commissions on incoming donations? I doubt it: their business model is to offer non-profits a service. -- Luca Filipozzi http://www.crowdrise.com/SupportDebian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150403210249.ga27...@emyr.net
Re: Entrepreneurial freedom for the Debian Partners Programme
also sprach Luca Filipozzi lfili...@debian.org [2015-04-03 08:57 +0200]: I'm prepared to accept pro-forma invoices from commercial organizations, based on their published pricing. Although it could be argued that 1RU/1Gbps of hosting is the same no matter the location of the data centre, the reality is that pricing varies widely and attempting to normalize across markets is untenable. In other words, my measuring stick is what would it have cost Debian to put a server in that data centre, based on the published pricing. For academic institutions, we can find a corresponding commercial provider in their jurisdiction / country, perhaps. Absolutely, iff we need the hosting, then we can rank it according to market price. However — I am not aware of prices for the type and volume of hosting required — but I'd be surprised if it'd slot in to the levels I'm imagining. I mean, look at https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml and think about the market price of some of the hosting offers we get. At most, they'd probably reach Bronze, if at all. And yet, it might just be that the admins there give us special access or support because they also use Debian etc. and suddenly you cannot weigh it up against purely financial support anymore. So I don't think the solution is quite that simple and I think we shouldn't rule out the possibility to just name in-kind donations as such, rather than to slot them in with financial scales. Finding a single service capable of providing crowdrise-like features AND a very wide variety of payment mechanisms may prove difficult. That said, we can begin our search with this as a requirement. I'm new to crowdrise. What's the story? And couldn't crowdrise itself be (convinced to be) interested in supporting Debian by waiving commissions on incoming donations? -- .''`. martin f. krafft madduck@d.o @martinkrafft : :' : proud Debian developer `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current)
Re: Entrepreneurial freedom for the Debian Partners Programme
Hi Martin, I recognize that you sent this to the soon-to-be DPL but I'll take the opportunity (on debian-project to leave debian-vote for possible replies from the DPL candidates) to share my thoughts. In my experience in recruiting organizations to provide services (hardware, hosting, DNS, CDN, etc.) to Debian, being able to offer ongoing acknowledgement (ie, prominent webpage such as /partners) is the single most effective tool in my toolbox (others being coordinated press releases, blog postings, and member benefits). Consequently, I am in favour of a recognition mechanism that values both cash donations and service donations against the same scale, yielding a platinum/gold/silver/bronze type ranking that is reassessed annually. Something like: https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml I do not find it antithetical to FLOSS principles to acknowledge, publically, the contributions that organizations provide to Debian, be they academic institutions such as MIT or corporations such as Bytemark. With regards to fundraising, I'm in favour of using a service such as crowdrise.com -- and only one such service -- even if that means paying 3-5% (plus credit card fees, if applicable). By leveraging such a platform, we can brand our donations portal, avoid managing multiple payment processor accounts, conduct campaigns (no, not spam ... more like earmark your donation for X or Y), etc. In support, Luca On Thu, Apr 02, 2015 at 07:37:23PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: Dear about-to-be-DPL, I know discussion period is over but Lucas encouraged me to post this now, so blame him. We've had a discussion over on -project about the revival of the Debian Partners Programme, which I hijacked into meta-level. tl;dr would be: while I am interested and want to work on this, I would only do so with enough rope, which I call entrepreneurial freedom. The thread is here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2015/03/threads.html#00025 and I am particularly interested in how you would respond as DPL to my last two messages (Lucas reply included in the middle for completeness): https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2015/03/msg00031.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2015/03/msg00032.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2015/03/msg00035.html PS: In this context, let me quickly also highlight my response to Paul Wise, who doesn't want Debian to turn into an advertising agency: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2015/03/msg00036.html I am fully aware that this is a contentious topic and the only way the project would succeed is if people can identify with it. There must not be any sell-out and we must not acquire more money than we can reasonably use towards the improvement of Debian. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madduck@d.o @martinkrafft : :' : proud Debian developer `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems when a gentoo admin tells me that the KISS principle is good for 'busy sysadmins', and that it's not an evolutionary step backwards, i wonder whether their tape is already running backwards. -- Luca Filipozzi http://www.crowdrise.com/SupportDebian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150403025251.ga28...@emyr.net
Re: Entrepreneurial freedom for the Debian Partners Programme
On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Luca Filipozzi wrote: I do not find it antithetical to FLOSS principles to acknowledge, publically, the contributions that organizations provide to Debian, be they academic institutions such as MIT or corporations such as Bytemark. Random thought, it might be interesting to also acknowledge donors (organizations and individuals) via contributors.debian.org. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6FJ6=m+D4FdczF_C4kZuyGUUuuC36gRyXS7AR=cgp0...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Entrepreneurial freedom for the Debian Partners Programme
also sprach Luca Filipozzi lfili...@debian.org [2015-04-03 04:52 +0200]: Consequently, I am in favour of a recognition mechanism that values both cash donations and service donations against the same scale, yielding a platinum/gold/silver/bronze type ranking that is reassessed annually. Something like: https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml Note that this pages splits financial and hardware donations, which I understand that you don't want, right? As I said in a previous post, evaluating in-kind donations against a financial scale is possible, albeit not always easy, and the evaluation depends on many factors, including our need and a suitable market price to use. With regards to fundraising, I'm in favour of using a service such as crowdrise.com -- and only one such service -- even if that means paying 3-5% (plus credit card fees, if applicable). By leveraging such a platform, we can brand our donations portal, avoid managing multiple payment processor accounts, conduct campaigns (no, not spam ... more like earmark your donation for X or Y), etc. Yes, having a micro-payment service available for payments too would be beneficial. .oO( snowdrift.coop ) .oO( BitCoin ) -- .''`. martin f. krafft madduck@d.o @martinkrafft : :' : proud Debian developer `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems it has been said that there are only two businesses that refer to customers as users: illegal drug trade and the computer industry. digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current)
