Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 02:14:39PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 09:13:34AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: > > Branden Robinson wrote: > > > Please do not run personal cronjobs on auric between 14:30 and 17:30 > > > > > > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add > > > the timezone identifier. > > I don't care what it says as long as clear and unambiguous, which it > currently isn't (or wasn't when I last logged in). Come on, man, throw > us a bone. Say "between 14:30 and 17:30 UTC-0400" or whatever. All it needs to say is "local time", and we need know no more, for the crontabs are understood as being in local time, right? ;-) And for anyone who's interested, running "date" will give us the timezone information. Julian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, Queen Mary, Univ. of London website: http://www.maths.qmul.ac.uk/~jdg/ Debian GNU/Linux Developer, see: http://people.debian.org/~jdg/ Visit http://www.thehungersite.com/ to help feed the hungry
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > > the local time and our own time. The cronjobs are in local time anyway, > > Which is annoying as well, but we have to cope with that :-) We could set the system timezone to GMT. hint, hint. yours, peter -- PGP signed and encrypted | .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** messages preferred.| : :' : The universal | `. `' Operating System http://www.palfrader.org/ | `-http://www.debian.org/
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 05:49:07PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > It is far harder to remember all the timezone names, probably. Do you know > from the top of your head what is BST (or BRST as we often use it here?) Surely everyone knows that that's British Summer Time? -- "You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Martin Schulze wrote: > This won't change if the motd would say it's UTC-0500, nor if it would say > PDT, so why all this? If such a warning does affect us, we need to check It is far harder to remember all the timezone names, probably. Do you know from the top of your head what is BST (or BRST as we often use it here?) > the local time and our own time. The cronjobs are in local time anyway, Which is annoying as well, but we have to cope with that :-) > That's why when-webwml and when-dinstall exist partially, but that's > another story, of course. Indeed... -- "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Martin Schulze wrote: > > Branden Robinson wrote: > > > You expect me to know where all of our machines are hosted? I'm the SPI > > > Treasurer and I don't know that. Maybe Mako Hill knows. > > > > No, I only expect you to be able to type date on both the remote and > > the local machine and do some maths, but apparently that seems to > > escape your facilities... > > > > Puzzled, > > Don't be. It is annoying as all hell to have to find out where I am in an > international network of machines for an international project all the time, > because people never remember to write UTC -foo. This won't change if the motd would say it's UTC-0500, nor if it would say PDT, so why all this? If such a warning does affect us, we need to check the local time and our own time. The cronjobs are in local time anyway, so "knowing" the difference between machine local time and dd local time won't help anyway, even worse, I'd assume it would confuse even more. > And if you have to ask why it is annoying, well, the answer has something to > do with "local mindset", and the problems it creates for a worldwide project. That's why when-webwml and when-dinstall exist partially, but that's another story, of course. Regards, Joey -- The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Martin Schulze wrote: > Branden Robinson wrote: > > You expect me to know where all of our machines are hosted? I'm the SPI > > Treasurer and I don't know that. Maybe Mako Hill knows. > > No, I only expect you to be able to type date on both the remote and > the local machine and do some maths, but apparently that seems to > escape your facilities... > > Puzzled, Don't be. It is annoying as all hell to have to find out where I am in an international network of machines for an international project all the time, because people never remember to write UTC -foo. And if you have to ask why it is annoying, well, the answer has something to do with "local mindset", and the problems it creates for a worldwide project. -- "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
Branden Robinson wrote: > > Oh come on! If you ask somebody on the street for the current time, > > do you expect him to answer with a note that it's Hong Kong time instead > > of local time? What other time than local would make sense when not > > stated differently? > > You expect me to know where all of our machines are hosted? I'm the SPI > Treasurer and I don't know that. Maybe Mako Hill knows. No, I only expect you to be able to type date on both the remote and the local machine and do some maths, but apparently that seems to escape your facilities... Puzzled, Joey -- The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 09:13:34AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Please do not run personal cronjobs on auric between 14:30 and 17:30
> >
> > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add
> > the timezone identifier.
>
> Oh come on! If you ask somebody on the street for the current time,
> do you expect him to answer with a note that it's Hong Kong time instead
> of local time? What other time than local would make sense when not
> stated differently?
You expect me to know where all of our machines are hosted? I'm the SPI
Treasurer and I don't know that. Maybe Mako Hill knows.
Plus, not all developers will recognize all of the timezone
abbreviations, or be able to map them to offsets from their own local
time. I know about CEST and AEST, but off the top of my head I don't
know what they mean in terms of offsets from UTC.
Also see Mark Brown's response. Our developers ssh in from all over the
world, and often know Debian hosts only by their names, not by the
address of their colocation facility.
I don't care what it says as long as clear and unambiguous, which it
currently isn't (or wasn't when I last logged in). Come on, man, throw
us a bone. Say "between 14:30 and 17:30 UTC-0400" or whatever.
If I'd had rights to write to /etc/motd I'd have fixed it myself and not
pestered anyone.
Yeesh, bite my head off for making an extremely gentle ("it might be
nice") little suggestion, and you wonder why people grumble about a
"cabal" (TINC)?
--
G. Branden Robinson| Good judgement comes from
Debian GNU/Linux | experience; experience comes from
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | bad judgement.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Fred Brooks
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Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 09:13:34AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: > Branden Robinson wrote: > > Please do not run personal cronjobs on auric between 14:30 and 17:30 > > > > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add > > the timezone identifier. > > Oh come on! If you ask somebody on the street for the current time, > do you expect him to answer with a note that it's Hong Kong time instead > of local time? What other time than local would make sense when not > stated differently? UTC. For one think, I have no idea whatsoever what timezone is auric in (and have no desire to try to find out) -- --- | Radovan Garabík http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Mark Brown wrote: > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 09:13:34AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: > > Branden Robinson wrote: > > > > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add > > > the timezone identifier. > > > Oh come on! If you ask somebody on the street for the current time, > > do you expect him to answer with a note that it's Hong Kong time instead > > of local time? What other time than local would make sense when not > > stated differently? > > On a system like auric that's used by people from many different > timezones as part of a wordwide project it could just as well be UTC. > In any case, it would be more helpful to specify which timezone is being > talked about - off hand I've no idea what timezone auric is in. Which reminds me that it would be a good idea to have all debian.org systems have their TZ as GMT. Is there any reason why this isn't done? yours, peter -- PGP signed and encrypted | .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** messages preferred.| : :' : The universal | `. `' Operating System http://www.palfrader.org/ | `-http://www.debian.org/ pgpQvHLV9k7VL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 09:13:34AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: > Branden Robinson wrote: > > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add > > the timezone identifier. > Oh come on! If you ask somebody on the street for the current time, > do you expect him to answer with a note that it's Hong Kong time instead > of local time? What other time than local would make sense when not > stated differently? On a system like auric that's used by people from many different timezones as part of a wordwide project it could just as well be UTC. In any case, it would be more helpful to specify which timezone is being talked about - off hand I've no idea what timezone auric is in. -- "You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
Branden Robinson wrote: > Please do not run personal cronjobs on auric between 14:30 and 17:30 > > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add > the timezone identifier. Oh come on! If you ask somebody on the street for the current time, do you expect him to answer with a note that it's Hong Kong time instead of local time? What other time than local would make sense when not stated differently? Regards, Joey -- The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
Re: admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 02:18:52PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > Please do not run personal cronjobs on auric between 14:30 and 17:30 > > I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add > the timezone identifier. I'm pretty sure it's local. That's probably aimed at those who couldn't grasp that dinstall's daily runs are not to be disturbed :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
admins: please clarify /etc/motd on auric
Please do not run personal cronjobs on auric between 14:30 and 17:30 I assume this means local time for auric, but it might be nice to add the timezone identifier. -- G. Branden Robinson| Organized religion is a sham and a Debian GNU/Linux | crutch for weak-minded people who [EMAIL PROTECTED] | need strength in numbers. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Jesse Ventura pgpe7CQbpDRDb.pgp Description: PGP signature
