Re: authoritative list of DFSG-free licenses
On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 08:51:54PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote: Joerg, it would be nice to rebuild it adding the repolist plugin http://ikiwiki.info/plugins/repolist/ , which would add the rel-vcs metadata, making the following work nicely out of the box with mr: $ webcheckout http://ftp-master.debian.org/ I don't see why I need a plugin (and whatever settings) for a one-line change, so I just went and added link rel=vcs-git href=http://ftp-master.debian.org/git/licenses.git; title=licenses.git / to the page.tmpl. It isn't supposed to change location every other day. :) But feel free to get me patches to change it, if you think it should. I'm not set on it. Thanks. webcheckout http://ftp-master.debian.org/; works indeed as a charm now. I haven't found the ikiwiki configuration in Git, so I'm unable to provide a patch for that. You are blind. :) It's all in git, but we don't use a setup file. The ikiwiki foo is in ikiwiki/ and the way we call it from our git hook is documented in README. Oops, sorry :) So yes, there are no excuses to try it out and propose patches, all is needed to test it locally is indeed there (hint hint). Any taker for writing a script that gather the corresponding statistics? [ snip useful tips ] OK, thanks for the pointers. I'll spread a bit the news about this, in case there are volunteers interested in some dak-related hacking to get this done. Technically I would think it ends up somewhere along - volunteers clone from the central place and do their work. - every now and then they ping one of ftp*, to have us review it, merge it (or reject the change) and push it to the central place. That would allow anyone to contribute, while keeping the FTPTeam, with us masters being delegates, the ones who publish it. Similar like policy editing works, IIRC. And discussion around it, happen on IRC and (for a start) debian-...@lists.debian.org. Sound suitable to me. It just lacks one bit, IMHO, where to store pending patches to avoid forgetting about them. Can we overload http://bugs.debian.org/ftp.debian.org (possibly with some specific usertagging) for this? If so, please name the desired usertags / categories, I'll then be happy to submit a first patch ... documenting where to report bugs against :-) Much more interesting is to get it all started, soo - Do we have volunteers? Who wants to? Keep in mind it will start with a heavy load. Which will go down when we got most of the stuff documented, but it will never end. Damn Humans, always get up with new licenses... According to this thread, we got at least two (Ian, MJ, not sure about Charles). After DPL-retiring :-), I'll be happy to help too. I guess the natural next step is subscribing to debian-dak@lists.d.o. Please do, everyone, if you're interested in helping with this. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Debian Project Leader . . . . . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club » signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: authoritative list of DFSG-free licenses
Le Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 05:15:54PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : According to this thread, we got at least two (Ian, MJ, not sure about Charles). After DPL-retiring :-), I'll be happy to help too. I guess the natural next step is subscribing to debian-dak@lists.d.o. Please do, everyone, if you're interested in helping with this. Hi all, I am already subscribed on debian-dak@lists.d.o, where I can behold Ansgar Burchardt's impressive work on dak :) For IRC, I would prefer to avoid it, because I am not in the same time zone as the members of the FTP team, and because I have difficulties to follow instant messaging and do something else at the same time. I would be interested to start by documenting the Creative Commons licenses. When I encounter a work under CC BY 2.0, I have a hard time explaining Upstream why it is strictly necessary to upgrade it to 2.5 or more for their work to be distributed in Debian. What are the crucial changes that made CC BY 2.5 Free while CC BY 2.0 is non-Free ? Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130119234147.ga1...@falafel.plessy.net
authoritative list of DFSG-free licenses
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 11:55:57PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote: One thing first: The question if we change DFSG and documenting what we think is free (or not) are two entirely different things, and shouldn't be mixed together. I'm replying only to the documenting thing using my ftpmaster hat, the DFSG§10 one is entirely seperate and doesn't really touch ftp* opinions. Fair enough, let's fix the subject then. The whole of ftp* agrees that it would be nice to have a place documenting this. So much so that we started something for it in 2009, see http://ftp-master.debian.org/licenses/ for it. Oo, that's awesome! I had no idea something like that existed, and I can't find it listed anywhere: can you people please link it from http://ftp-master.debian.org/ ? And here is an ikiwiki instance in a git, check it out, ftp*. got it around 31 commits far, and then it slept in. It *is* entirely dull and non-fun and just boring work, with no direct payoff (in NEW/rm you at least have that direct payback :) ). For those willing to play with it, the associated Git repository seems to be at http://ftp-master.debian.org/git/licenses.git/ Joerg, it would be nice to rebuild it adding the repolist plugin http://ikiwiki.info/plugins/repolist/ , which would add the rel-vcs metadata, making the following work nicely out of the box with mr: $ webcheckout http://ftp-master.debian.org/ I haven't found the ikiwiki configuration in Git, so I'm unable to provide a patch for that. That said, we would be happy to get it back to live and end up with it (either where it is now or wherever fits) being a useful place. Seeing how it directly touches us (decide if $foo can go into the archive and be distributed or not), it certainly makes sense to have it within FTP* overview. Ideally, what I'd love is then to see that page replacing what we currently have at http://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/ . MJ, has you seem to have participated in the maintenance of the latter page, what do you think of that? Of course, we'll first need to bring the ftp-master page up to date. Also, I think Charles' idea of also publishing stats about which licenses are currently found in main/non-free would be useful. It can be toned down wrt the claim that these licenses are DFSG-free and presented as mere factual data of what we currently have in the archive. Doing it on the basis of machine parseable debian/copyright sounds reasonable and might further encourage adopting the new format. Any taker for writing a script that gather the corresponding statistics? That said, it is clear it can't be the FTP Team who is doing the work - the oh-so-recentness of it shows that it is a task that won't get done. There is too much else for us and we are few people only. But we would be happy to work with / lead / whatever-one-names it with a group of volunteers together. Exact details of how that works out are to be found, but im sure we can. If there are volunteers for it... Fair enough. Of course good part of the work will be reviewing the licenses that are already found in the archive and marking them as DFSG-free in your table. Which review status would you (as in ftp-masters assistants) want for those licenses? More generally, is there a specific work-flow, or state chart, you want to follow? That would help in proposing patches to the ikiwiki repo... The other big part of it is keeping up to date with future DFSG-free-ness ruling by ftp-masters. As pointed out in this thread, you usually send motivated REJECTs to maintainer only. How would you like to proceed to keep track of motivation for new licenses? Is Cc:-ing -project, as you did for the Ubuntu Font License and then indexing a link to the list archives something that would work for you? If not, what would? Thanks for this enlightening pointer to related work, Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Debian Project Leader . . . . . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club » signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: authoritative list of DFSG-free licenses
On 13085 March 1977, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The whole of ftp* agrees that it would be nice to have a place documenting this. So much so that we started something for it in 2009, see http://ftp-master.debian.org/licenses/ for it. Oo, that's awesome! I had no idea something like that existed, and I can't find it listed anywhere: can you people please link it from http://ftp-master.debian.org/ ? Well, it is not, as it is currently not useful. It is (still) a proof-of-concept, thats why it isn't linked anywhere. Sure that will change when we get a bit more. And here is an ikiwiki instance in a git, check it out, ftp*. got it around 31 commits far, and then it slept in. It *is* entirely dull and non-fun and just boring work, with no direct payoff (in NEW/rm you at least have that direct payback :) ). For those willing to play with it, the associated Git repository seems to be at http://ftp-master.debian.org/git/licenses.git/ Yep. Joerg, it would be nice to rebuild it adding the repolist plugin http://ikiwiki.info/plugins/repolist/ , which would add the rel-vcs metadata, making the following work nicely out of the box with mr: $ webcheckout http://ftp-master.debian.org/ I don't see why I need a plugin (and whatever settings) for a one-line change, so I just went and added link rel=vcs-git href=http://ftp-master.debian.org/git/licenses.git; title=licenses.git / to the page.tmpl. It isn't supposed to change location every other day. :) But feel free to get me patches to change it, if you think it should. I'm not set on it. I haven't found the ikiwiki configuration in Git, so I'm unable to provide a patch for that. You are blind. :) It's all in git, but we don't use a setup file. The ikiwiki foo is in ikiwiki/ and the way we call it from our git hook is documented in README. I just did the few changes that it works with ikiwiki 3.x, so people can look at it at home too. That said, we would be happy to get it back to live and end up with it (either where it is now or wherever fits) being a useful place. Seeing how it directly touches us (decide if $foo can go into the archive and be distributed or not), it certainly makes sense to have it within FTP* overview. Ideally, what I'd love is then to see that page replacing what we currently have at http://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/ . Agreed, we don't need multiple. MJ, has you seem to have participated in the maintenance of the latter page, what do you think of that? Of course, we'll first need to bring the ftp-master page up to date. And actually cover a number of licenses, not just the initial ones I put there. Also, I think Charles' idea of also publishing stats about which licenses are currently found in main/non-free would be useful. It can be toned down wrt the claim that these licenses are DFSG-free and presented as mere factual data of what we currently have in the archive. Doing it on the basis of machine parseable debian/copyright sounds reasonable and might further encourage adopting the new format. Well. Any taker for writing a script that gather the corresponding statistics? Two good places to run/integrate that: - Using the tree we export for packages.d.o, with all changelogs, copyright files and README.Debians, one can go over that and grep around, counting it. Pro: Easy to get started Contra: Low performance. - Patch it into dak. We do extract the files anyways, at that point one can extract information from them and put them somewhere easy to access (hello projectb). Contra: Slightly harder to get started. Hello dak python Pro: Performance is good. Queries later can be anything you can imagine in sql. And I bet UDD would leech the data too. That said, it is clear it can't be the FTP Team who is doing the work - the oh-so-recentness of it shows that it is a task that won't get done. There is too much else for us and we are few people only. But we would be happy to work with / lead / whatever-one-names it with a group of volunteers together. Exact details of how that works out are to be found, but im sure we can. If there are volunteers for it... Fair enough. Of course good part of the work will be reviewing the licenses that are already found in the archive and marking them as DFSG-free in your table. Or opening bugs, when one finds a license that slipped through but shouldn't be in main, yeah. Which review status would you (as in ftp-masters assistants) want for those licenses? More generally, is there a specific work-flow, or state chart, you want to follow? That would help in proposing patches to the ikiwiki repo... There is, not yet, a defined workflow. So the details have to be worked out with whoever volunteers. I'm pretty open here for suggestions. Technically I would think it ends up somewhere along - volunteers clone from the central place and do their work. - every now and then they ping one of ftp*, to have us review it,
