Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
On Tue, Apr 26, 2005 at 06:45:12PM -0500, Branden Robinson / Debian Project Leader wrote: I welcome your thoughts. (Belatedly getting back to this.) Nearly everyone who registered an opinion on this subject appears to prefer a little *less* visibility when it comes to this issue. Henceforth, I will: * summarize expenditure/reimbursement approvals in my DPL reports[1]; and * CC the debian-private mailing list on particularly noteworthy expenditure/reimbursement approvals (where noteworthy may mean large, long-awaited, strategically important, and so forth). Martin, I apologize for excessively exposing the details of your reimbursement. I appreciate everyone's feedback and assistance in forging a strategy for dealing with this issue that balances the competing interests I perceive (openness and accountability vs. privacy and information overload). [1] http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/reports/ -- G. Branden Robinson Debian Project Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://people.debian.org/~branden/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 01:46:25PM -0500, Branden Robinson / Debian Project Leader wrote: * CC the debian-private mailing list on particularly noteworthy expenditure/reimbursement approvals (where noteworthy may mean large, long-awaited, strategically important, and so forth). Do you mean * Elaborate on -private on [...]? Otherwise, I don't think CCing private will add anything or help. cheers, Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
Hi! * Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [050427 07:28]: I don't think that the amount of reimbursed money needs to be put in public and that -private would have been a better place instead. I humbly object. I confess, that I just searched for a couple of minutes for some kind of finance report of SPI or FFIS, but I coulnd't find one. I think, our donators deserve to know, how we use their money. Doesn't need to be a detailed list, but a monthly / regular report like income: foo, spend for traveling cost: bar, spend for hardware replacements: baz would be fine. So, no, don't send it to -private, yes, you don't need to be very detailed about that. Yours sincerely, Alexander -- http://learn.to/quote/ http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
* Alexander Schmehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] [050427 16:11]: I confess, that I just searched for a couple of minutes for some kind of finance report of SPI or FFIS, but I coulnd't find one. Should have searched a couple of minutes longer, just found it for SPI ;) Yours sincerely, Alexander signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
Alexander Schmehl wrote: Hi! * Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [050427 07:28]: I don't think that the amount of reimbursed money needs to be put in public and that -private would have been a better place instead. I humbly object. I confess, that I just searched for a couple of minutes for some kind of finance report of SPI or FFIS, but I coulnd't find one. For ffis e.V., become a member and attend the bi-yearly members meeting, then you'll see the finance report, just as with every other German e.V. So, no, don't send it to -private, yes, you don't need to be very detailed about that. Not very detailed, especially private information, such as who received the money, and who donated it, fine with me. (except these people requested their listing). Regards, Joey -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 01:10 +0100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
* Branden Robinson / Debian Project Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-04-26
18:45]:
Details are attached.
Martin has complained, with some justification, that I may have
disclosed sensitive information by posting this message to -project
instead of -private. (More specifically, he feels I may have
breached his trust by redistributing a private mail he sent me.)
I agree with Martin that you breached his trust. I do, however, think
-project is an appropriate list, just perhaps as a monthly summary.
I don't care about the information that were posted because I have
nothing to hide. I undertook all of that travel (and much more) and
have receipts for all items. The point I was trying to make is that I
sent a private message (i.e not to a public mailing list) and it was
forwarded without my permission. I think that permission should be
sought before doing so [*].
That is probably the best policy. Personally, I feel that it is useful
to say the following:
I have approved the expenditure of GBP 230.37 from the coffers of the
Debian UK Society to Martin Michlmayr for the purposes of reimbursement
for expenses accrued during his time as Debian Project Leader.
I would not even object to saying that they are mostly for
travel-related expenses, but I think that forwarding a private email is
a bad idea. Besides, we don't really need the details; I don't care
whether Mr. Michlmayr spent AUD 20 or AUD 30 on a phone card, as long as
the money was used appropriately, which you have implied by your consent
as Project Leader.
I think a monthly report of expenses and stating something
like DPL related expenses for Martin would be enough, and if people
want to know details, they can always ask. I'm all for transparency
and making information available, but I'm worried about wasting
developers' time by posting useless drivel (or stuff which people
misinterpret, see slashdot).
I agree that a summary of the month's expenditures would be better than
reporting every time that someone has received money.
--
($_,$a)=split/\t/,join'',map{unpack'u',$_}DATA;eval$a;print;__DATA__
M961H[EMAIL PROTECTED];!UF%OG-U(#QUF%OG-U0=D:75MUC8VUL=G)U;6LN
MFUL+F=Y/@H)2QA8F-D969G:EJ:VQM;F]P7)S='5V=WAYBQN=V]R8FMC
5:75Q96AT9V1YF%L=G-P;6IX9BP)
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
* Branden Robinson / Debian Project Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-04-26 18:45]: Details are attached. Martin has complained, with some justification, that I may have disclosed sensitive information by posting this message to -project instead of -private. (More specifically, he feels I may have breached his trust by redistributing a private mail he sent me.) I don't care about the information that were posted because I have nothing to hide. I undertook all of that travel (and much more) and have receipts for all items. The point I was trying to make is that I sent a private message (i.e not to a public mailing list) and it was forwarded without my permission. I think that permission should be sought before doing so [*]. More generally (and probably more importantly), my complaint was also that I think posting too much information wastes other people's time. Do you CC your manager at work on every message you send? Do accounts at a company send a detailed summary for every single expense to every employee? I think a monthly report of expenses and stating something like DPL related expenses for Martin would be enough, and if people want to know details, they can always ask. I'm all for transparency and making information available, but I'm worried about wasting developers' time by posting useless drivel (or stuff which people misinterpret, see slashdot). [*] Also, my complaint was done in private and I didn't give consent that it may be mentioned on a public list. I'm not trying to give Branden a hard time here, by the way; however, having received mail sent to leader@ for two years, I know that there is a lot sent there to which the senders would not blindly consent it being forwarded to a public list. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: disbursement approvals and email privacy
Martin Michlmayr wrote: * Branden Robinson / Debian Project Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-04-26 18:45]: Details are attached. Martin has complained, with some justification, that I may have disclosed sensitive information by posting this message to -project instead of -private. (More specifically, he feels I may have breached his trust by redistributing a private mail he sent me.) I don't care about the information that were posted because I have nothing to hide. I undertook all of that travel (and much more) and Having nothing to hide is a very bad excuse for leaking private stuff to the public or third parties whose interest differs. I don't think that the amount of reimbursed money needs to be put in public and that -private would have been a better place instead. More generally (and probably more importantly), my complaint was also that I think posting too much information wastes other people's time. Do you CC your manager at work on every message you send? Do accounts at a company send a detailed summary for every single expense to every employee? I think a monthly report of expenses and stating something like DPL related expenses for Martin would be enough, and if people want to know details, they can always ask. I'm all for transparency and making information available, but I'm worried about wasting developers' time by posting useless drivel (or stuff which people misinterpret, see slashdot). Ack. Regards, Joey -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
