Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Hallo as the unintential starter of this thread some remarks - didn't want to start another flame war or even worser to advertise the mentioned game. I used simply the possibilty to ask the debian mantainer and got traped by an automagicaly added cc to this list. - thanks to Charles i got in contact with miriam ruiz (http:// www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=69) who runs a project on rating http://wiki.debian.org/OpenRating other projects are: TIGRS(tm), The Independent Game Rating System (Wikipedia) PEGI, Pan European Game Information (Wikipedia) ESRB, Entertainment Software Rating Board (Wikipedia) DebTags, Debian Package Tags (Categories for Debian packages) I think miriam can need some help I don't want to raise another flame war, but I think we should improve our awearness on those topics. A good game lives from player - machine interaction, graphics and tactical options. People who write those games often put most of their mind/wisdom in those fields. Much less time is spend on the story behind the game, Often it got just copied from an old one or an well known blockbuster. This way we get the 1001st Race game and 101st Ego shooter. I think only cooperation between writers of stories and software can help. How to boost it ? That's the question, i have to admit, i have no answer. I don't mind if the thread ends here. Let us write better storybooks for games Christof -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 01:53:27AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 06:14:04PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:59:00AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:00:27AM -0500, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.02.27, Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is useful to remember that many people have different thresholds for what they find offensive or funny. Similar to non-free, perhaps Debian needs to have its packages moved to drug-free, leaving packages like dopewars behind? :-). :-). :-) (Apply extra smileys liberally as needed.) There was a recent incident with Wikipedia about it containing a page with the image of mohammad. Muslims wanted this to be removed. Wikipedia stood up for free speech and did not remove this image. The idea is that free speech should be allowed and the choice should be left up to the It is always funny, albeit in a sad kind of ways, when i see DDs speaking of free speech, while at the same time supporting censorship at the list level. I am not a DD. I do not speak for Debian or its personel. Although I would assume that they consider free speech important, considering that in the US (and other places) 'code=speech'. Note: As i am being censored, please consider forwarding this email to the list. Sadly, Sven Luther You are not limited in your freedom to speak. It is others that may or may not choose to listen or take action to recieve or block what you say. It has been your actions that lead to this and it will be your future actions that change the situation. I hope you are able to change your actions to be able to continue your desired Debian work. Cheers, Kev -- To all, I seem to have made a mistake regarding sending the previous message. My fingers were quicker then my eyes and did not notice that this was a private email which also had a header sending it to -project. I should have noticed this and not sent it. My appologies to all involved for disclosure of private email and for a possible breach of the list or project rules. -K ps. Thanks to Mr. Plessy for bringing it to my attention. -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! | |___ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___| -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
* Julien Cristau: log/2005-05:20050528100016|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.0-1_powerpc.changes I can't find the reason, so you'd have to ask Jörg about that. IIRC, the images are non-free, and might even be used without consent from the copyright holder.
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 06:14:04PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:59:00AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:00:27AM -0500, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.02.27, Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is useful to remember that many people have different thresholds for what they find offensive or funny. Similar to non-free, perhaps Debian needs to have its packages moved to drug-free, leaving packages like dopewars behind? :-). :-). :-) (Apply extra smileys liberally as needed.) There was a recent incident with Wikipedia about it containing a page with the image of mohammad. Muslims wanted this to be removed. Wikipedia stood up for free speech and did not remove this image. The idea is that free speech should be allowed and the choice should be left up to the It is always funny, albeit in a sad kind of ways, when i see DDs speaking of free speech, while at the same time supporting censorship at the list level. I am not a DD. I do not speak for Debian or its personel. Although I would assume that they consider free speech important, considering that in the US (and other places) 'code=speech'. Note: As i am being censored, please consider forwarding this email to the list. Sadly, Sven Luther You are not limited in your freedom to speak. It is others that may or may not choose to listen or take action to recieve or block what you say. It has been your actions that lead to this and it will be your future actions that change the situation. I hope you are able to change your actions to be able to continue your desired Debian work. Cheers, Kev -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! | |___ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___| -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On 28/02/2008, Andreas Tille wrote: /me agrees with the original poster that DDs _could_ have spent their time otherwise better than maintaining questionable games, but because they are free to spend their time in whatever they want I would hate if people (including myself when just writing this mail) now spent even more time in discussing issues how people should better spend their time. So could we just stop here? ad And join pkg-games to help maintain (other) games. /ad Cheers, -- Cyril Brulebois pgpX1zhdogVle.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
This one time, at band camp, Christof Adams said: Hallo Francois, I am a long time user of debian. In the updating process i found the programm dopewars you maintain. As a user i much apreciate the work of volunteers like you in the packing and handling of the debian software packages. But do we really need a game like this in the debian distribution, given the casualties and problems which drugs, there use and the dealing cause. Please think over it and remove this package and others with comparable content. You might find other packages which deserve your time better. I think it is useful to remember that many people have different thresholds for what they find offensive or funny. So far, it has been Debian's policy to allow software into the distribution provided there is someone to maintain it (caveats about varying levels of maintainership aside). We are too broad a project to have a single set of values, and I think it wouldn't be all that useful to try to impose one. Just my thoughts, and thanks for your interest. -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On 2008.02.27, Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is useful to remember that many people have different thresholds for what they find offensive or funny. Similar to non-free, perhaps Debian needs to have its packages moved to drug-free, leaving packages like dopewars behind? :-). :-). :-) (Apply extra smileys liberally as needed.) -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Hi Stephen, * Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-02-27 16:40]: This one time, at band camp, Christof Adams said: I am a long time user of debian. In the updating process i found the programm dopewars you maintain. As a user i much apreciate the work of volunteers like you in the packing and handling of the debian software packages. But do we really need a game like this in the debian distribution, given the casualties and problems which drugs, there use and the dealing cause. Please think over it and remove this package and others with comparable content. You might find other packages which deserve your time better. I think it is useful to remember that many people have different thresholds for what they find offensive or funny. So far, it has been Debian's policy to allow software into the distribution provided there is someone to maintain it (caveats about varying levels of maintainership aside). We are too broad a project to have a single set of values, and I think it wouldn't be all that useful to try to impose one. At least w3bfukk0r was not allowed to get into the archive because of its offensive name and hot-babe also never made its way into the archive. Kind regards Nico -- Nico Golde - http://www.ngolde.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted. pgpVMgHc9lKT0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:00:27AM -0500, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.02.27, Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is useful to remember that many people have different thresholds for what they find offensive or funny. Similar to non-free, perhaps Debian needs to have its packages moved to drug-free, leaving packages like dopewars behind? :-). :-). :-) (Apply extra smileys liberally as needed.) There was a recent incident with Wikipedia about it containing a page with the image of mohammad. Muslims wanted this to be removed. Wikipedia stood up for free speech and did not remove this image. The idea is that free speech should be allowed and the choice should be left up to the individual. So if you don't want to install/use a piece of software, don't install/use it. Debian has various packages that contain potentially offensive matter like the fortune packages. Debian also has a subproject for children, so maybe you can use that installer to ensure a 'cleaner' selections of software. Or, in true hacker spirit, you can choose to create a Debian subproject to suit your choices and give it an appropiate name. hope that explains, K -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! | |___ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___| -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On mer, 2008-02-27 at 15:00 +0100, Christof Adams wrote: Hallo Francois, I am a long time user of debian. In the updating process i found the programm dopewars you maintain. As a user i much apreciate the work of volunteers like you in the packing and handling of the debian software packages. But do we really need a game like this in the debian distribution, given the casualties and problems which drugs, there use and the dealing cause. Oh, yes, of course, and I think we shouldn't also allow to be the criminal Mr. X in our londonlaw package! ;-P ...one player controls the movements of the criminal Mr. X as he tries to evade Scotland Yard... bye Christian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
This one time, at band camp, Nico Golde said: At least w3bfukk0r was not allowed to get into the archive because of its offensive name and hot-babe also never made its way into the archive. You mean they were actually rejected by the ftp-master's, or you mean the discussion convinced the maintainers not to upload? I honestly don't know for the first, and my impression for the second was that all the shouting convinced the prospective maintainer not to bother. I don't see giving up and being told no as the same things. -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 18:13:12 +, Stephen Gran wrote: This one time, at band camp, Nico Golde said: At least w3bfukk0r was not allowed to get into the archive because of its offensive name and hot-babe also never made its way into the archive. You mean they were actually rejected by the ftp-master's, or you mean the discussion convinced the maintainers not to upload? I honestly don't know for the first, and my impression for the second was that all the shouting convinced the prospective maintainer not to bother. I don't see giving up and being told no as the same things. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/org/ftp.debian.org$ grep hot-babe log/* log/2004-11:20041130164722|jennifer|Moving to new|hot-babe_0.2.0-1_powerpc.changes log/2004-12:20041204200222|jennifer|Moving to new|hot-babe_0.2.1-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-01:20050127093213|jennifer|Moving to new|hot-babe_0.2.2-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-05:2005052812|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.2-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-05:20050528100014|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.1-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-05:20050528100016|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.0-1_powerpc.changes I can't find the reason, so you'd have to ask Jörg about that. There's also been an upload of w3bfukk0r to NEW in September 2006. Cheers, Julien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Le mercredi 27 février 2008 à 15:00 +0100, Christof Adams a écrit : Please think over it and remove this package and others with comparable content. You might find other packages which deserve your time better. I agree. We should for example remove bible-kjv, which contains shocking texts recommending to lapidate people. Given the casualties still caused by lapidation and the seriousness of this human rights violation, we should remove this package from the archive. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Hi Julien, * Julien Cristau [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-02-27 19:30]: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 18:13:12 +, Stephen Gran wrote: This one time, at band camp, Nico Golde said: At least w3bfukk0r was not allowed to get into the archive because of its offensive name and hot-babe also never made its way into the archive. You mean they were actually rejected by the ftp-master's, or you mean the discussion convinced the maintainers not to upload? I honestly don't know for the first, and my impression for the second was that all the shouting convinced the prospective maintainer not to bother. I don't see giving up and being told no as the same things. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/org/ftp.debian.org$ grep hot-babe log/* log/2004-11:20041130164722|jennifer|Moving to new|hot-babe_0.2.0-1_powerpc.changes log/2004-12:20041204200222|jennifer|Moving to new|hot-babe_0.2.1-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-01:20050127093213|jennifer|Moving to new|hot-babe_0.2.2-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-05:2005052812|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.2-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-05:20050528100014|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.1-1_powerpc.changes log/2005-05:20050528100016|lisa|rejected|hot-babe_0.2.0-1_powerpc.changes I can't find the reason, so you'd have to ask Jörg about that. There's also been an upload of w3bfukk0r to NEW in September 2006. The thread about it is on: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/11/msg00566.html Cheers Nico -- Nico Golde - http://www.ngolde.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted. pgpAePsjB2lay.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Hi Christof, You have a good point: dopewars, despite being fun to a lot of people, is not exactly a family-friendly game. I suggest you look at this Debian sub-project if you are looking for a child-safe distribution: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-jr/ Francois -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On Wednesday 27 February 2008, Francois Marier wrote: You have a good point: dopewars, despite being fun to a lot of people, is not exactly a family-friendly game. I suggest you look at this Debian sub-project if you are looking for a child-safe distribution: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-jr/ /me always semi-enjoys the fact that suggestions like the one that started the thread always end up making people aware of a game they did not before knew existed. Would be interesting to compare the popcon scores for the game for this month and next month. All we need at this point is for some people to start blogging about the discussion. :-P signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Le Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:59:00AM -0500, Kevin Mark a écrit : Debian has various packages that contain potentially offensive matter like the fortune packages. Debian also has a subproject for children Actually, custom debian distributions (subprojects) have exactly the same content as Debian, but display it differently, so it does not solve Chistof's answer. There is a game rating project, but dopewars does not seem to be documented there. Maybe you (Christof) can ask propose to Miriam Ruiz to add it? http://www.miriamruiz.es/tags/ Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy Debian-Med packaging team Wakō, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Frans Pop wrote: /me always semi-enjoys the fact that suggestions like the one that started the thread always end up making people aware of a game they did not before knew existed. Would be interesting to compare the popcon scores for the game for this month and next month. All we need at this point is for some people to start blogging about the discussion. :) /me agrees with the original poster that DDs _could_ have spent their time otherwise better than maintaining questionable games, but because they are free to spend their time in whatever they want I would hate if people (including myself when just writing this mail) now spent even more time in discussing issues how people should better spend their time. So could we just stop here? At least you are right that the game could not have had a better advertising than this. I'm happy that I feel quite resistant against any advertising. :) Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
