Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
Joe Wreschnig writes: On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 12:12 +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: I don't know what's actually in (or more importantly not in) python2.4-minimal though. I'm eyeballing right now. Things that jump out at me: * No character encoding, translation, or locale handling. * A little oddly, loss of shutil. * No sockets. The first one seems like it would be a show-stopper to me, unless we expect programs in the base system to only deal with ASCII. This is a fairly large addition to package, too. The second can easily be fixed; possibly just oversight. It's a small module and gives Python equivalents of cp -r, rm -r, and mv. The third seems like something software in base may want to do; I mention it specifically because perl-base include socket support. Colin already mentioned that the socket modules are in -minimal. shutil looks reasonable. encodings and locale handling come with a prize: a size of about 3MB, which would more than double the size of -minimal (2.4 ships with the cjk codecs). Matthias -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
Joey Hess writes: Colin Watson wrote: FWIW the relevant design docs from when this was done in Ubuntu are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EssentialPython (requirements) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonInEssential (details) The rationale for the set of included modules is in the latter, and was basically done by taking each module in perl-base and mapping it to its Python equivalent. FWIW, that's a fairly strange way to do it, since modules are added/removed from perl-base as needed by the perl-using programs in the base system. No, if you do look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonInEssential, you will notice: Do not include: * _ssl, pickle, cPickle, pickle ends up as a dependency of subprocess. For example, perl-base includes Data::Dumper because debconf (used to) use it, not because there's any other particular reason to include that module in base, and I've just asked that Data::Dumper be removed, so including its equivilant (pickle) in python-base on that rationalle is decidely strange. Ubuntu did use perl-base just as a starting point. If we followed the same method for python-base, then we would a) instroduce python-base iff we had some package(s) written in python that we wanted in the base system (apt-listchanges comes to mind) b) include only the modules needed by the package(s). We once had a python-base package and got complaints about the name being misleading. Besides that, I got questions from Debian only developers and Debian users to have the minimal package in Debian as well. That does not look misleading, as long as the name implies that you cannot expect a complete python installation. Matthias -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 05:58:20PM -0500, David Nusinow wrote: For what it's worth, we've caught hell from the ruby community for breaking the standard library in to its component parts and not installing it all by default. This problem has been largely abrogated as of late, but I'd rather not see us piss off the python community for making a similar mistake. I believe the problem with the ruby situation wasn't that the monolithic ruby distribution was split up; but that there was no clear way to install the lot in one go, without prior knowledge of what the whole distribution was: a simple meta-package with the correct dependencies was all that was missing. -- Jon Dowland http://alcopop.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
python-sqlobject v0.7 package?
Hi all, I was wondering on the status of a version 0.7 package for python-sqlobject. It's current package is still at version 0.6, while version 0.7 has been released in October 2005. It seems the package maintainer has been notified of the new version in November 2005 through the bug report system, though there is still no new package available or reply from the maintainer for that matter. I would like to use some functionality from the new version and would love an update or status on it. Kind regards, - Ramon. -- There are really only three types of people: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who say, What happened? --- ing. R. Bastiaans HPC - Systems Programmer SARA - Computing and Networking Services Kruislaan 415 PO Box 194613 1098 SJ Amsterdam 1090 GP Amsterdam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 10:38:08PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ok, but now I'm confused: why is python-minimal needed in Essential? Why not simply depend on it straightforwardly? Because there are parts of the packaging system where there is no way to express such a dependency relationship, and so only Essential packages can be relied upon to be available. One example is .config maintainer scripts, some of which are quite complex and worth writing in a higher-level language than shell. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 09:22:53AM -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 10:38:08PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ok, but now I'm confused: why is python-minimal needed in Essential? Why not simply depend on it straightforwardly? Because there are parts of the packaging system where there is no way to express such a dependency relationship, and so only Essential packages can be relied upon to be available. One example is .config maintainer scripts, some of which are quite complex and worth writing in a higher-level language than shell. I asked this question earlier, and no one answered. Are there .config scripts being written in python today in Ubuntu? (Hmm, where are the python bindings for debconf, and what ensures that they're installed?) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: python-sqlobject v0.7 package?
Il giorno ven, 20/01/2006 alle 18.10 +0100, Ramon Bastiaans ha scritto: Hi all, I was wondering on the status of a version 0.7 package for python-sqlobject. It's current package is still at version 0.6, while version 0.7 has been released in October 2005. It seems the package maintainer has been notified of the new version in November 2005 through the bug report system, though there is still no new package available or reply from the maintainer for that matter. I would like to use some functionality from the new version and would love an update or status on it. Kind regards, - Ramon. I'm working on this, and I'll adopt the package. Expect an upload of 0.7-1 in a few days. -- Fabio Tranchitella [EMAIL PROTECTED].''`. Proud Debian GNU/Linux developer, admin and user.: :' : `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~kobold/ `- _ 1024D/7F961564, fpr 5465 6E69 E559 6466 BF3D 9F01 2BF8 EE2B 7F96 1564 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 09:52:09AM -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 09:40:55AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: I asked this question earlier, and no one answered. Are there .config scripts being written in python today in Ubuntu? (Hmm, where are the python bindings for debconf, and what ensures that they're installed?) No, not yet. The promotion to Essential needed to happen prior to writing any such scripts. Well, technically a .config script that fails because /usr/bin/python doesn't exist would get a second chance when the postinst runs, just like any other config script failure... so you could get away with this just using a Depends:, you just lose pre-configuration support ;) The python bindings for debconf are, of all places, in the 'debconf' package. Hurray! :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 09:40:55AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: I asked this question earlier, and no one answered. Are there .config scripts being written in python today in Ubuntu? (Hmm, where are the python bindings for debconf, and what ensures that they're installed?) No, not yet. The promotion to Essential needed to happen prior to writing any such scripts. The python bindings for debconf are, of all places, in the 'debconf' package. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 03:34:58PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: If we followed the same method for python-base, then we would a) instroduce python-base iff we had some package(s) written in python that we wanted in the base system (apt-listchanges comes to mind) b) include only the modules needed by the package(s). Please don't do this; it implies that python-minimal would be part of base, but not full python, and this is something that python upstream explicitly objects to. It implies no such thing. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
Kevin Mark wrote: Giving away code (GPL or otherwise) to the world is done for many reasons. Aparently some folks are more concerned about how their work is used. As with the attribution in .debs, folks want the users to not associate possible (as judged by them) 'bad'/'unofficial'/'off project'/'different' work with their projects. But the perl folks don't seem to have that objection! x-) (at least none have spoken yet!) perl is priority standard and so it is part of default Debian installs unless the user explcitly asks aptitude not to install it. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: python-sqlobject v0.7 package?
Cool, great. Thanks for the reply and I'll await it's release. ;) Fabio Tranchitella wrote: Il giorno ven, 20/01/2006 alle 18.10 +0100, Ramon Bastiaans ha scritto: Hi all, I was wondering on the status of a version 0.7 package for python-sqlobject. It's current package is still at version 0.6, while version 0.7 has been released in October 2005. It seems the package maintainer has been notified of the new version in November 2005 through the bug report system, though there is still no new package available or reply from the maintainer for that matter. I would like to use some functionality from the new version and would love an update or status on it. Kind regards, - Ramon. I'm working on this, and I'll adopt the package. Expect an upload of 0.7-1 in a few days. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 02:05:40PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 03:34:58PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: If we followed the same method for python-base, then we would a) instroduce python-base iff we had some package(s) written in python that we wanted in the base system (apt-listchanges comes to mind) b) include only the modules needed by the package(s). Please don't do this; it implies that python-minimal would be part of base, but not full python, and this is something that python upstream explicitly objects to. It implies no such thing. If you won't acknowledge that, then know that upstream also object to the name python-base for something which has a stripped-down standard library. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
