Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Barry Warsaw]

Hi Florent,

On Oct 17, 2014, at 04:17 PM, Florent Rougon wrote:

>As the upstream maintainer of pythondialog, I feel a bit concerned about
>its status in Debian, in particular about what is going to go into
>jessie. In short, I'd rather see the package removed from Debian than
>stay in the current status.

Please note that this is not a team-maintained package.  We could do a
non-maintainer upload of it, but I'd rather see either 1) Adam, the current
maintainer CC'd here, update the package, or 2) have Adam move the package to
the Debian Python team, where we could collectively maintain it going
forward.

>The package that is currently in unstable is terribly outdated (the
>version dates from 2004), has a few bugs, supports neither Unicode
>correctly nor Python 3, contrary to current upstream versions, not to
>mention a bunch of features including help and extra button support,
>easy pythondialog and backend version checking, autowidgetsize and the
>new Sphinx-generated manual[1].
>
>In case someone is interested, I've prepared a package of the latest
>version for Python 3, using dh, dh_python3 and pybuild, following the
>suggestions given on the Debian Python wiki (which is nice to have,
>thank you!).

That's excellent, thanks, and should help us (either the team or Adam) update
the package.  Would you be able to file a bug on the package in Debian, and
attach a diff (debdiff) of your packaging changes?

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=python-dialog

Cheers,
-Barry


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Matthias Klose]

Am 17.10.2014 um 17:03 schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> Hi Florent,
> 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 04:17 PM, Florent Rougon wrote:
> 
>> As the upstream maintainer of pythondialog, I feel a bit concerned about
>> its status in Debian, in particular about what is going to go into
>> jessie. In short, I'd rather see the package removed from Debian than
>> stay in the current status.
> 
> Please note that this is not a team-maintained package.  We could do a
> non-maintainer upload of it, but I'd rather see either 1) Adam, the current
> maintainer CC'd here, update the package, or 2) have Adam move the package to
> the Debian Python team, where we could collectively maintain it going
> forward.

see #673962. while it is ITA, there is no action, and it should be orphaned
again. Or adopt it.


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Florent Rougon]

Hi,

Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> Please note that this is not a team-maintained package.  We could do a
> non-maintainer upload of it, but I'd rather see either 1) Adam, the current
> maintainer CC'd here, update the package, or 2) have Adam move the package to
> the Debian Python team, where we could collectively maintain it going
> forward.

As Mathias pointed out, the package in Debian has been abandoned for a
long time...

> That's excellent, thanks, and should help us (either the team or Adam) update
> the package.  Would you be able to file a bug on the package in Debian, and
> attach a diff (debdiff) of your packaging changes?
>
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=python-dialog

I'm not sure it is the way to go: current pythondialog versions only
support Python 3, although I made a backport of version 3.0.1 to
Python 2 (). The
implication is that python-dialog (currently in Debian) and
python3-dialog (as mentioned in my previous message) are different
source packages, built from different upstream tarballs. My packaging
isn't based on python-dialog either, but loosely on enum34 and the
suggestions from the Debian wiki. Even though many people are still
using Python 2, making substantial efforts to support it as well as
Python 3 is not a good use of resources IMHO...

Thanks

-- 
Florent


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Tristan Seligmann]

On 17 October 2014 17:59, Florent Rougon  wrote:
> Barry Warsaw  wrote:
>
>> Please note that this is not a team-maintained package.  We could do a
>> non-maintainer upload of it, but I'd rather see either 1) Adam, the current
>> maintainer CC'd here, update the package, or 2) have Adam move the package to
>> the Debian Python team, where we could collectively maintain it going
>> forward.
>
> As Mathias pointed out, the package in Debian has been abandoned for a
> long time...

Indeed. #673962 was switched from O to ITA due to a pending package in
mentors, but the package was removed from mentors after some
inactivity and there was no further progress.

>> That's excellent, thanks, and should help us (either the team or Adam) update
>> the package.  Would you be able to file a bug on the package in Debian, and
>> attach a diff (debdiff) of your packaging changes?
>>
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=python-dialog
>
> I'm not sure it is the way to go: current pythondialog versions only
> support Python 3, although I made a backport of version 3.0.1 to
> Python 2 (). The
> implication is that python-dialog (currently in Debian) and
> python3-dialog (as mentioned in my previous message) are different
> source packages, built from different upstream tarballs.

There are no reverse dependencies of python-dialog in Debian, and the
popcon count is quite low (127). Combined with the fact that you do
not intend to support the package upstream on Python 2, I think it
would just make sense to remove the Python 2 package from Debian.
However, I don't think it is misleading to upload the Python 3 package
as the same source package since this is really a later version of the
same pythondialog from the same upstream author; and this would
require less administrative overhead than uploading a new source
package (which would need to go through full NEW processing) and
asking for the old one to be removed just to accomplish what is
effectively a change in the name of the source package.

Thus I intend to take over the existing ITA and inject Florent's
source package into DPMT now, under the old source package name
(pythondialog), and review it for upload. Florent, would you like to
be listed as one of the package co-maintainers? If you don't intend to
work on the packaging in future, then there's no point in doing this,
but you would be welcome to join DPMT and participate in the work on
this package in future if you're interested in doing this.
-- 
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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Florent Rougon]

Hi,

Tristan Seligmann  wrote:

> Thus I intend to take over the existing ITA and inject Florent's
> source package into DPMT now, under the old source package name
> (pythondialog), and review it for upload. Florent, would you like to
> be listed as one of the package co-maintainers? If you don't intend to
> work on the packaging in future, then there's no point in doing this,
> but you would be welcome to join DPMT and participate in the work on
> this package in future if you're interested in doing this.

Your analysis of the situation sounds good to me, and the solution you
propose would allow to have something up-to-date in jessie, which would
be difficult otherwise because of the short time before the freeze. I
would be glad to be co-maintainer of the package. (I am a former DD, so
maybe there is some account (frn) to reuse instead of creating a new
one...)

Thank you

-- 
Florent


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Tristan Seligmann]

On 19 October 2014 14:40, Florent Rougon  wrote:
> would be glad to be co-maintainer of the package. (I am a former DD, so
> maybe there is some account (frn) to reuse instead of creating a new
> one...)

Looks like your Debian account is marked emeritus; if you wish to
re-activate it you could follow the process described here:

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/developer-duties.html#returning

If you don't wish to do this, I think you would need to create a guest
account on Alioth (just sign up via the site) to use. Either way, you
can then apply to join DPMT here:

https://alioth.debian.org/projects/python-modules

I've added you to Uploaders in the meanwhile; I still want to do some
final checks on the package, but everything looks good so far, so I
will most likely be uploading the new version later today (although it
will still need to go through binary-NEW processing because of the new
python3-dialog package).
-- 
mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Florent Rougon]

'evening!

Tristan Seligmann  wrote:

> Looks like your Debian account is marked emeritus; if you wish to
> re-activate it you could follow the process described here:
>
> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/developer-duties.html#returning

Thanks for the info, maybe later...

> If you don't wish to do this, I think you would need to create a guest
> account on Alioth (just sign up via the site) to use. Either way, you
> can then apply to join DPMT here:
>
> https://alioth.debian.org/projects/python-modules

OK, I've done that with my frn account, it is still usable.

> I've added you to Uploaders in the meanwhile; I still want to do some
> final checks on the package, but everything looks good so far, so I
> will most likely be uploading the new version later today (although it
> will still need to go through binary-NEW processing because of the new
> python3-dialog package).

Thank you very much, that was quick! I have subscribed using:

  
http://packages.qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/pts.cgi?what=advanced&package=source_package_name&email=y...@email.com

The package is already uploaded, right?

-- 
Florent


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Tristan Seligmann]

On 19 October 2014 23:21, Florent Rougon  wrote:
> Thank you very much, that was quick! I have subscribed using:
>
>   
> http://packages.qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/pts.cgi?what=advanced&package=source_package_name&email=y...@email.com
>
> The package is already uploaded, right?

It is, and processed through NEW. I uploaded -2 earlier today to fix
#766041 and I believe it is now in unstable; it looks like the PTS
isn't updated yet, though, possibly related to some problems with
Debian infrastructure at the moment[1].

[1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.infrastructure.announce/142
-- 
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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Florent Rougon]

Hi,

Tristan Seligmann  wrote:

>> The package is already uploaded, right?
>
> It is, and processed through NEW. I uploaded -2 earlier today to fix
> #766041 and I believe it is now in unstable; it looks like the PTS
> isn't updated yet, though, possibly related to some problems with
> Debian infrastructure at the moment[1].

It is in unstable, thank you! I wonder if the new package
(python3-dialog) should not have Conflicts and Replaces with
python-dialog. Although I suppose both packages can be installed at the
same time, the current situation may leave the old, unmaintained
python-dialog forever installed on users' systems (until manual removal
or removal of Python 2...).

What do you think?

-- 
Florent


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Tristan Seligmann]

On 22 October 2014 09:47, Florent Rougon  wrote:
> It is in unstable, thank you! I wonder if the new package
> (python3-dialog) should not have Conflicts and Replaces with
> python-dialog. Although I suppose both packages can be installed at the
> same time, the current situation may leave the old, unmaintained
> python-dialog forever installed on users' systems (until manual removal
> or removal of Python 2...).
>
> What do you think?

Replaces: would not be appropriate or necessary since none of the
files are overlapping; this is only necessary when two packages
install files to the same location, and the one package must be
installed over the other.

Conflicts: would not be appropriate either, because both packages will
work just fine when coinstalled, as you mention.

It is indeed possible for a removed package ("obsolete package", as
aptitude etc. call it) to stay on user systems forever, unless the
user takes some action, but I think the packaging tools and
documentation provide the necessary tools for users to address this.
For example, the release notes have a section on this topic:

https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#obsolete

aptitude will list the package under "Obsolete and Locally Created
Packages"), I believe the other package management frontends will do
something similar. If the old python-dialog package is working for
some user (there is no package in Debian using python-dialog, but
perhaps they have some locally installed software using it), then I
expect they can just continue to use it, whereas if it is not being
used then it doesn't really cause any harm by being installed on their
system.
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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Florent Rougon]

Tristan Seligmann  wrote:

> Replaces: would not be appropriate or necessary since none of the
> files are overlapping; this is only necessary when two packages
> install files to the same location, and the one package must be
> installed over the other.
>
> Conflicts: would not be appropriate either, because both packages will
> work just fine when coinstalled, as you mention.

Yes, I know the technical conditions that justify Conflicts and
Replaces, I only proposed them as a means to get users' package managers
to automatically propose the upgrade from python-dialog to
python3-dialog...

> It is indeed possible for a removed package ("obsolete package", as
> aptitude etc. call it) to stay on user systems forever, unless the
> user takes some action, but I think the packaging tools and
> documentation provide the necessary tools for users to address this.

[...]

> I
> expect they can just continue to use it, whereas if it is not being
> used then it doesn't really cause any harm by being installed on their
> system.

That is true, I also use aptitude and this feature works well. The main
downside to leaving obsolete packages is when they have security
problems, since they never get fixed in such a case. I am not aware of
any such problem for pythondialog, though, so I suppose we can live with
the current situation.

Thanks

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Florent


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Re: Status of pythondialog in Debian

[Florent Rougon]

Florent Rougon  wrote:

> Yes, I know the technical conditions that justify Conflicts and
> Replaces, I only proposed them as a means to get users' package managers
> to automatically propose the upgrade from python-dialog to
> python3-dialog...

Hmm... I believe I spoke a bit quickly and that this "automatic upgrade"
only works when some installed or to-be-installed package Depends
on the new package that Conflicts: and Replaces: the old package. Sorry!

-- 
Florent


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