Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
Hi, Thank you Kay for Nuitka. I have not tried it, but I will since it looks interesting. On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:29:09AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Currently I am just trying to be a good upstream. On that topic, we have a bunch of good links and some Debian-specific information about how to be a good upstream here: http://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamGuide I would personally add don't use SCons that If and only if you were to consider replacing SCons, take a look at waf that has many qualities. http://code.google.com/p/waf/ -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique scientifique et gestion de connaissances -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20111013071822.gb5...@volans.logilab.fr
Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
Am 13.10.2011 09:24, schrieb Paul Wise: On Thu, 2011-10-13 at 09:18 +0200, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: If and only if you were to consider replacing SCons, take a look at waf that has many qualities. http://code.google.com/p/waf/ Please do not look at waf, it is worse than scons, which is why it was removed from Debian. At PyCON DE, some people also recommended a look at waf. I don't know it at all. I understand it can be frustrating to work with these upstreams. I don't know much about these tools. Nuitka uses Scons and that is all of my use of both tools. I years ago failed once to integrated DEC Ada compiler into Scons. I found thought that Scons for Nuitka gets the work done pretty well. It has a strange dependency on non-ctypes for Windows, which is why I have a patched inline copy that I on that platform to make it use ctypes instead. I expect a Debian package to simply remove that copy. I will add it to a for packagers documentation section that this ought to be done. My need in Nuitka is to not me manage building, compilers, flags, etc. myself, and while at it, to be standard enough, to make it easy for guys, to change things. But generally, the Scons file needs no changes from the user. I do not make people use Scons notice. I call it with a build file that has parameters and it finds things on its own. I expect that if I get the correct hints, that because of the small amount of dependencies (scons, lxml enables XML dumps of internal tree), it ought be easy to package. Have a look at my finding my files problem. I don't understand pkg-resources documentation well enough, to detect where it has the solution I am seeking. I want the same source to run from extracted .tar.gz and to run from installed system. Yours, Kay -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e969a6c.1000...@gmx.de
Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
Hello Jakub, http://www.nuitka.net/blog/nuitka-a-python-compiler/what-is-nuitka/ How is it different/better than pure-Python[0] mode of Cython? It's more compatible to CPython than anything that exists. Nuitka passes practically 100% of the test suite. Currently I don't have support for threading, and that's it. Frame stack works perfect in branch already. Nuitka is a project not about a hybrid language, and not about C types, and it's intended for whole programs acceleration. That's probably differences that currently matter. It's design is cleaner, it uses the CPython parser to parse Python, it uses Scons to build the generated code, etc. Cython is trying to be more Python compatibility recently, but Nuitka already had full language coverage, before Cython started with generators. Now they have it. But there is still unimportant things, not supported. I believe Cython is currently the best choice available for something productive, but Nuitka has a cleaner plan (only Python semantics matter) and I believe a quicker road to success, and has already uses. Ultimately, I agree with Dr. Stefan Behnel, one of the lead developers of Cython, that the projects are coming from different ends, but reach out to similar goals. I gave my reasons on recent PyCON DE. But it boils down to willingness to move and different goals. Stefan agrees with me that Nuitka has different enough goals, or so I understood. To give an example, parameter errors. The error messages of Nuitka are identical to CPython and that's the test. The error message of Cython are not identical and arguably not better. The generated code may be or or less faster. To me, the only correct solution is the one that 100% imitates CPython and even avoids improvements to CPython. To Stefan the faster solution is an acceptable compromise. With this approach, a 100% compatibility cannot be achieved, which also means that you have to have your own tests. Cython needs to have a lot of efforts, because it has data driven testing that describes the non-CPython behaviour of Cython. I can just compare CPython and Nuitka and every difference is a bug. Yours, Kay -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e9615bd.4060...@gmx.de
Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
Hello Yaroslav, Since everyone seems to be busy and since you are an experienced Debian user -- would you consider trying to package it yourself? it is really not a rocket science I must admit, I am a bit scared at that perspective. Creating the compiler itself is a huge task. Adding to that worries me. If nobody wants to package it now, I will just wait until somebody wants to. The easier road for me might be to make Nuitka attractive enough then. Currently I am just trying to be a good upstream. I have that stable branch in master, with no less than 5 hotfixes. Every bug I encounter gets fixes on a hotfix branch that is automatically pushed to as well as to development branch. http://www.nuitka.net/gitweb/?p=Nuitka.git;a=summary That's quicker and better than many other projects, who make bug fix releases only as an afterthought, of continued development. I will sustain that. And I didn't consider packaging practical without that. You see, new Nuitka releases are not supposed to add major new features now, only increased acceleration. Support for Python3 probably being the exception there should be. But normally there won't be features people want, except for even more speed. But correctness is something I take absolutely serious. If Nuitka is not correct or not compatible, that will make it remain unused. That's why I went 100% there, before I start to make Nuitka seriously fast. and file an ITP (or at least RFP if not planing to work on packaging) for it. Will file an RFP then. 1 tiny comment: Nuitka.py script better looses its suffix (.py) if you are planing to have it installed under /usr/bin (and I would even suggest to make it all lower-cased -- nuitka -- although not strictly enforced but advised: imagine if all the tools g++, Python, cython, LDD, Make had inconsistent casing) That's the kind of things I am looking for. And another thing that worries me. In the Scons file, I have things like this to find the C++ sources to compile: nuitka_src = os.environ.get( NUITKA_CPP, ./src/) ... nuitka_include = os.environ[ NUITKA_INCLUDE ] or to start Scons from Nuitka with the general scons file: scons_file : os.environ[ NUITKA_SCONS ] + /SingleExe.scons, The main reason I want to see it packaged now, is to learn about things that make Nuitka potentially a bad upstream. There is probably more, and I would appreciate it. Anyone who would give it a critical review would do me and the project already a huge favor that will only reward later on. Yours, Kay -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e96191a.40...@gmx.de
Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Kay Hayen wrote: Currently I am just trying to be a good upstream. On that topic, we have a bunch of good links and some Debian-specific information about how to be a good upstream here: http://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamGuide I would personally add don't use SCons that, simply because of my experience with an upstream who started using it; I had to re-implement a bunch of autotools features, starting with $DESTDIR. Not sure if it has improved since then. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caktje6hrsmf8-0c3dukcn4ofmap9odhbsksq0gdw9pdc0w_...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
Hi Kay, Not sure if may be there were replies in private... nuitka looks like an interesting project -- thanks! and thanks for using Debian ;-) Since everyone seems to be busy and since you are an experienced Debian user -- would you consider trying to package it yourself? it is really not a rocket science and since you are on a Debian system start right away with reportbug wnpp and file an ITP (or at least RFP if not planing to work on packaging) for it. Then start off with dh_make and snaking at tutorials (apt-get install packaging-tutorial) and other packages. Whenever packages becomes ready (lintian-free, builds in clean environment with pbuilder or cowbuilder) -- you could seek for sponsorship here and that would be easier to get than complete packaging (usually DDs package what they use themselves first ;) ) 1 tiny comment: Nuitka.py script better looses its suffix (.py) if you are planing to have it installed under /usr/bin (and I would even suggest to make it all lower-cased -- nuitka -- although not strictly enforced but advised: imagine if all the tools g++, Python, cython, LDD, Make had inconsistent casing) Cheers On Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Kay Hayen wrote: Hello, I am the upstream developer of Nuitka and am seeking somebody to package Nuitka for Debian. It's a Python compiler with near complete and unprecedented compatibility: http://www.nuitka.net/blog/nuitka-a-python-compiler/what-is-nuitka/ I have recently adopted a git flow model, where I now support a stable release, plus generally the project is nearing the point of being useful. Check it out from here: git clone http://git.nuitka.net/Nuitka.git The develop branch is further ahead with documentation, otherwise it is supposed to be useful. I am willing to make changes as you indicate necessary. I had the chance to talk with Jan Dittberner during recent PyCON DE and he encouraged me to post here. Please have a look, let me know what problems you see, and feel free to point me to solutions. I currently only expect troubles from my use of environment variables over __file__ relativeness. I have no idea how Nuitka or any code should access files nearly, so I am using environment variables to find their directory. Let me say, that I am now a developer using Debian for more than 10 years and thrilled at the perspective to myself as an upstream. I do my development work on Debian Testing and I will be more than willing to apply changes to make the packaging easy. That is also why I would ask you to use the develop branch, because that's where I can make these changes. Thanks in advance, Kay -- =--= Keep in touch www.onerussian.com Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20111011131355.gz31...@onerussian.com
Re: Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
* Kay Hayen kayha...@gmx.de, 2011-10-10, 00:55: I am the upstream developer of Nuitka and am seeking somebody to package Nuitka for Debian. It's a Python compiler with near complete and unprecedented compatibility: http://www.nuitka.net/blog/nuitka-a-python-compiler/what-is-nuitka/ How is it different/better than pure-Python[0] mode of Cython? [0] http://docs.cython.org/src/tutorial/pure.html -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20111011195854.gb7...@jwilk.net
Request for packaging - Nuitka the Python Compiler
Hello, I am the upstream developer of Nuitka and am seeking somebody to package Nuitka for Debian. It's a Python compiler with near complete and unprecedented compatibility: http://www.nuitka.net/blog/nuitka-a-python-compiler/what-is-nuitka/ I have recently adopted a git flow model, where I now support a stable release, plus generally the project is nearing the point of being useful. Check it out from here: git clone http://git.nuitka.net/Nuitka.git The develop branch is further ahead with documentation, otherwise it is supposed to be useful. I am willing to make changes as you indicate necessary. I had the chance to talk with Jan Dittberner during recent PyCON DE and he encouraged me to post here. Please have a look, let me know what problems you see, and feel free to point me to solutions. I currently only expect troubles from my use of environment variables over __file__ relativeness. I have no idea how Nuitka or any code should access files nearly, so I am using environment variables to find their directory. Let me say, that I am now a developer using Debian for more than 10 years and thrilled at the perspective to myself as an upstream. I do my development work on Debian Testing and I will be more than willing to apply changes to make the packaging easy. That is also why I would ask you to use the develop branch, because that's where I can make these changes. Thanks in advance, Kay -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e922670.40...@gmx.de
