what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Hi team python, I am quite curious to hear what is keeping python2.6 from entering debian sid? It's a rock solid release, which has seen many bugfixes, and is the fastest python version ever. The package in experimental has had only 2 bugreports, both are fixed. Please, instead of putting so much effort in turbogears2 and zope and whatever, wouldn't it be better to finally upgrade to the latest python which was released in OCTOBER 2008? Also, a more personal note to that notorious person called Josselin: why don't you answer any emails regarding your debian packages? Why don't you even respond when I ask for a simple upgrade of the python-pymssql package, even after filing a critical bug report about the grave bugs that make the package unusable? Pymssql 1.0.2 was released over 2 months ago. Upgrading the debian package takes about 5 minutes of your time. Even if you don't have time to do that, a small reply to an email or to a bug report would be more than welcome. Best regards, Jan Geboers
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Hello Jan, I would like to reply politely: sorry if I will not be able to (or the resulting words don't look like), the intention is this :) On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 11:00, Jan Geboers wrote: > Hi team python, > > I am quite curious to hear what is keeping python2.6 from entering debian > sid? I think several people wonder this. >From a technical point of view, there is some work to do on the modules to make them compatible with 2.6 new features (for example: dist-package instead of site-package, /usr/local instead of /usr etc). This transition is currently running, but it's not yet completed; but I also think that an upload without adding to support version would work. > It's a rock solid release, which has seen many bugfixes, and is the fastest > python version ever. > The package in experimental has had only 2 bugreports, both are fixed. I'm not sure if this ml is the right place to ask: the description on [1] reports "Discussion of issues related to Python on Debian systems with a stress on packaging standards. Therefore relevant for maintainers of Python related packages." so it may or may not be on topic :) [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/ But in any case, you should ask the package maintainer that, as you can see on [2], is maintained outside a team (that we can ideally suppose be represented by people actively working on python "stuff") so its his decision you're looking for and we (honestly) don't know. [2] http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/python2.6.html > Please, instead of putting so much effort in turbogears2 and zope and > whatever, wouldn't it be better to finally upgrade to the latest python > which > was released in OCTOBER 2008? Never write something like this: we are all volunteers, and we are free to work on whatever we like in our spare time. If you want something done, then work on it: did you contributed to py2.6 packaging, for example? Please also note that debian is also used in companies, and they might need zope package working for money to come to their bank accounts, so don't speculate. > Also, a more personal note to that notorious person called Josselin: why > don't you answer any emails regarding your debian packages? > Why don't you even respond when I ask for a simple upgrade of the > python-pymssql package, even after filing a critical bug report about the > grave bugs that > make the package unusable? Pymssql 1.0.2 was released over 2 months ago. > Upgrading the debian package takes about 5 minutes of your time. > Even if you don't have time to do that, a small reply to an email or to a > bug report would be more than welcome. This is a personal attack (against a guy I believe to be very active, technically skilled, even if something a little bit "rough" ;) ) and I don't like it at all. If you have complains against him not fixing a RC bug on that package, reply to the bug itself, so that a public statement of your "pressure" on the bug is made. Additionally, you can also help the maintainer, preparing a NMU or a series of patches to fix what you believe to be wrong, so that you can alleviate him from some work. That said, I really hope you now provide an updated package to Joss for him to check and possibly upload. Regards, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Hi Sandro, thanks for replying. I dont have much time right now to prepare a large piece on this, but I wanted to say that I have tried to contact Josselin, both by email and debian bug report, but no success so far. I also tried to get in touch with Matthias Klose with regard to the state of the python 2.6 package, but no reply came to that either. Even a short statement about the progress would be more than welcome, or maybe a call for assistance on the specific parts of work that can be done? But if both the python maintainer and the maintainer of the individual package can't be bothered to reply to e-mails or read their bug report that is marked critical, what more can be done? It's hard to help if you have no clue about where the problem or high workload is situated. Taking into account Josselin's charming personality I'm quite sure that he wouldn't even accept an updated version of said package that I would provide to him. Personal attacks are not my intention, I hope my point of view isn't interpreted as such, I just care about Debian as a whole, and the state of python in Debian in particular. Best regards, Jan Geboers On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 14:50, Sandro Tosi wrote: > Hello Jan, > I would like to reply politely: sorry if I will not be able to (or the > resulting words don't look like), the intention is this :) > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 11:00, Jan Geboers wrote: > > Hi team python, > > > > I am quite curious to hear what is keeping python2.6 from entering debian > > sid? > > I think several people wonder this. > > From a technical point of view, there is some work to do on the > modules to make them compatible with 2.6 new features (for example: > dist-package instead of site-package, /usr/local instead of /usr etc). > > This transition is currently running, but it's not yet completed; but > I also think that an upload without adding to support version would > work. > > > It's a rock solid release, which has seen many bugfixes, and is the > fastest > > python version ever. > > The package in experimental has had only 2 bugreports, both are fixed. > > I'm not sure if this ml is the right place to ask: the description on > [1] reports "Discussion of issues related to Python on Debian systems > with a stress on packaging standards. Therefore relevant for > maintainers of Python related packages." so it may or may not be on > topic :) > > [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/ > > But in any case, you should ask the package maintainer that, as you > can see on [2], is maintained outside a team (that we can ideally > suppose be represented by people actively working on python "stuff") > so its his decision you're looking for and we (honestly) don't know. > > [2] http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/python2.6.html > > > Please, instead of putting so much effort in turbogears2 and zope and > > whatever, wouldn't it be better to finally upgrade to the latest python > > which > > was released in OCTOBER 2008? > > Never write something like this: we are all volunteers, and we are > free to work on whatever we like in our spare time. If you want > something done, then work on it: did you contributed to py2.6 > packaging, for example? > > Please also note that debian is also used in companies, and they might > need zope package working for money to come to their bank accounts, so > don't speculate. > > > Also, a more personal note to that notorious person called Josselin: why > > don't you answer any emails regarding your debian packages? > > Why don't you even respond when I ask for a simple upgrade of the > > python-pymssql package, even after filing a critical bug report about the > > grave bugs that > > make the package unusable? Pymssql 1.0.2 was released over 2 months ago. > > Upgrading the debian package takes about 5 minutes of your time. > > Even if you don't have time to do that, a small reply to an email or to a > > bug report would be more than welcome. > > This is a personal attack (against a guy I believe to be very active, > technically skilled, even if something a little bit "rough" ;) ) and I > don't like it at all. If you have complains against him not fixing a > RC bug on that package, reply to the bug itself, so that a public > statement of your "pressure" on the bug is made. > > Additionally, you can also help the maintainer, preparing a NMU or a > series of patches to fix what you believe to be wrong, so that you can > alleviate him from some work. > > That said, I really hope you now provide an updated package to Joss > for him to check and possibly upload. > > Regards, > -- > Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) > My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ > Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi >
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Jan Geboers writes: > Personal attacks are not my intention, I hope my point of view isn't > interpreted as such, If that is truly what you want, then you must realise that paragraphs like this: > Taking into account Josselin's charming personality I'm quite sure > that he wouldn't even accept an updated version of said package that I > would provide to him. work directly against that. A personal attack is *exactly* what that paragraph is; please omit such sentiments from future messages if they are not your intention. -- \“None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love | `\ not freedom, but license.” —John Milton | _o__) | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Hi, On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 07:34:21PM +0200, Jan Geboers wrote: > But if both the python maintainer and the maintainer of the individual > package can't be bothered to reply to e-mails or read their bug report that > is marked critical, Every day, each and every one of us receives *tons* of e-mails. I just got 200 this morning (after spam filtering). 200*5 minutes is more minutes than are available in a day. What makes you think your e-mail was worth replying to? Out of the thousands of Debian+Python users, it could very well be that tens or hundreds are asking this same question at the same time, why would someone bother to reply to everyone? > what more can be done? It's hard to help if you have no clue about where the > problem or high workload is situated. Sandro answered that question, please read his e-mail again. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique scientifique et gestion de connaissances -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
If "tens or hundreds" of people are asking the same question maybe it would be a good idea to state a public answer to said question on the python mailing list? If a maintainer is having difficulties with something, it is his responsibility to file a request for help if I remember correctly. On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:21, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > Hi, > > On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 07:34:21PM +0200, Jan Geboers wrote: > > But if both the python maintainer and the maintainer of the individual > > package can't be bothered to reply to e-mails or read their bug report > that > > is marked critical, > > Every day, each and every one of us receives *tons* of e-mails. I just > got 200 this morning (after spam filtering). 200*5 minutes is more > minutes than are available in a day. What makes you think your e-mail > was worth replying to? Out of the thousands of Debian+Python users, it > could very well be that tens or hundreds are asking this same question > at the same time, why would someone bother to reply to everyone? > > > what more can be done? It's hard to help if you have no clue about where > the > > problem or high workload is situated. > > Sandro answered that question, please read his e-mail again. > > -- > Nicolas Chauvat > > logilab.fr - services en informatique scientifique et gestion de > connaissances >
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
[Jan Geboers, 2009-07-06] > If "tens or hundreds" of people are asking the same question > maybe it would be a good idea to state a public answer to said question on > the python mailing list? > If a maintainer is having difficulties with something, it is his > responsibility to file a request for help if I remember correctly. just fix the bug and contact me, I will help you upload your changes to the repository -- -=[ Piotr Ożarowski ]=- -=[ http://www.ozarowski.pl ]=- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 12:06:15PM +0200, Jan Geboers wrote: > If "tens or hundreds" of people are asking the same question > maybe it would be a good idea to state a public answer to said question on > the python mailing list? Yes, it would be. Asking such a question on this list, you have a much higher probability to get the answer you want than by coming forward saying that X is not doing the job you expect him to do on his spare time. Of course, asking Google first is always the right thing to do. Here is what you find by googling for two minutes: http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2009/03/msg00091.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-May/028266.html If that does not answer the question, try the following for more links http://www.google.com/search?q=python+2.6+debian+package+site:lists.debian.org Since I do not know the actual answer to the "what's keeping python2.6 out of testing/unstable?" question, I cannot provide it, but I am sure someone else will be able to give more details than Sandro just did. As for any free software project, the question that the developers expect is "I see python2.6 is not in testing/unstable yet. I read the following discussion in the archives. I looked at the package. If I understand correctly this and that need to be done in order to get the thing to work. Is it ok if I proceed? Who wants to review my work?". I bet that this question will get you an immediate answer 99.9% of the times you ask it. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique scientifique et gestion de connaissances -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Hi Jan,
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 19:34, Jan Geboers wrote:
> thanks for replying.
you're welcome.
> I dont have much time right now to prepare a large piece on this,
> but I wanted to say that I have tried to contact Josselin, both by email and
> debian bug report, but no success so far.
Probably because he has other (more important?) stuff to look at, at
this stage of the release cycle.
But you lacking time can show you that also other people may be in a
period of low free time, so they dedicate their time to what they feel
more important for the release and/or for our users. (and as personal
note, a module to connect to M$ sql server doesn't look like too much
"interesting").
Also note that an RC bug can be fixed with a NMU: if you complain
against something, you should be prepared to pay the price of it :)
Now the package has been injected in the Debian Python Modules Team:
you are encouraged to join us and fix this bug, and prepare and
accordingly upload.
> I also tried to get in touch with Matthias Klose with regard to the state of
> the python 2.6 package, but no reply came to that either.
That's another story, sorry.
> Even a short statement about the progress would be more than welcome,
> or maybe a call for assistance on the specific parts of work that can be
> done?
We are also waiting for this statement to come.
> But if both the python maintainer and the maintainer of the individual
> package can't be bothered to reply to e-mails or read their bug report that
> is marked critical,
> what more can be done? It's hard to help if you have no clue about where the
> problem or high workload is situated.
I said above: for RC bugs (severity in ('grave', 'serious',
'critical')) provide a well-done NMU and you'll (almost :) ) find a
sponsor to upload it.
> Taking into account Josselin's charming personality I'm quite sure that he
> wouldn't even accept an updated version of said package that I would provide
> to him.
You're again speculating (with another personal attach coming from the
backdoor): you didn't even try to propose a package to him, so how
could you know? Please do something "real" and then complain about
that not being taken into account.
> Personal attacks are not my intention, I hope my point of view isn't
> interpreted as such, I just care about Debian as a whole, and the state of
> python in Debian in particular.
And the best way to achieve this is to actually *help* debian packages
doing packaging work, bug triaging, etc etc.
At this point, I really want to see you involved in what you are
highlight as 2 problems. Else, you are forced to wait for some spare
time to come to the relevant maintainers.
Regards,
--
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: what's keeping python2.6? why is Josselin acting like a deaf man when his packages contain critical bugs?
Sandro,
sorry again if my comments seemed harsh and a bit too personal, I was having
a rough day and was a bit annoyed by the lack of response to any of my
prodding.
I'll do my best to assist where I can, Piotr has been so kind to help me get
started on updating the python-pymssql package.
Also, trust me, I'm not fond of m$ sql in any way, but I need the module at
my job to interface with some "legacy" systems ;)
Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction, I hope to provide some
kind of value for the debian-python team.
Best regards,
Jan G.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 22:24, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> Hi Jan,
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 19:34, Jan Geboers wrote:
> > thanks for replying.
>
> you're welcome.
>
> > I dont have much time right now to prepare a large piece on this,
> > but I wanted to say that I have tried to contact Josselin, both by email
> and
> > debian bug report, but no success so far.
>
> Probably because he has other (more important?) stuff to look at, at
> this stage of the release cycle.
>
> But you lacking time can show you that also other people may be in a
> period of low free time, so they dedicate their time to what they feel
> more important for the release and/or for our users. (and as personal
> note, a module to connect to M$ sql server doesn't look like too much
> "interesting").
>
> Also note that an RC bug can be fixed with a NMU: if you complain
> against something, you should be prepared to pay the price of it :)
> Now the package has been injected in the Debian Python Modules Team:
> you are encouraged to join us and fix this bug, and prepare and
> accordingly upload.
>
> > I also tried to get in touch with Matthias Klose with regard to the state
> of
> > the python 2.6 package, but no reply came to that either.
>
>
> That's another story, sorry.
>
> > Even a short statement about the progress would be more than welcome,
> > or maybe a call for assistance on the specific parts of work that can be
> > done?
>
> We are also waiting for this statement to come.
>
> > But if both the python maintainer and the maintainer of the individual
> > package can't be bothered to reply to e-mails or read their bug report
> that
> > is marked critical,
> > what more can be done? It's hard to help if you have no clue about where
> the
> > problem or high workload is situated.
>
> I said above: for RC bugs (severity in ('grave', 'serious',
> 'critical')) provide a well-done NMU and you'll (almost :) ) find a
> sponsor to upload it.
>
> > Taking into account Josselin's charming personality I'm quite sure that
> he
> > wouldn't even accept an updated version of said package that I would
> provide
> > to him.
>
> You're again speculating (with another personal attach coming from the
> backdoor): you didn't even try to propose a package to him, so how
> could you know? Please do something "real" and then complain about
> that not being taken into account.
>
> > Personal attacks are not my intention, I hope my point of view isn't
> > interpreted as such, I just care about Debian as a whole, and the state
> of
> > python in Debian in particular.
>
> And the best way to achieve this is to actually *help* debian packages
> doing packaging work, bug triaging, etc etc.
>
> At this point, I really want to see you involved in what you are
> highlight as 2 problems. Else, you are forced to wait for some spare
> time to come to the relevant maintainers.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
> My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
> Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi
>
