Processed: Re: Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > retitle 483179 PTS: please link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page Bug#483179: PTS: please *do not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page Changed Bug title to `PTS: please link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page' from `PTS: please *do not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page'. > thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 03:40:27PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > Hi Ana, > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Ana Guerrero wrote: > > 09:40 ana: please stop ranting > > 09:41 ana: and accept my decision as PTS maintainer > > You might not like it, but it's how we work in such cases. For X people > against, I can find X people who agree, and in such situations, unless > you're ready to launch a GR, you have to accept the decison of the person > in charge or be ready to do the supplementary work required to satisfy > everybody (such as an option that lets you hide this box). > We all know launch a GR about this would be overreacting... :) Main problem with this answer is not the content, is the way you expressed it and my way of reading it (I read there "PTS is mine, shut up!"). I try to be open when I read it about what you mean, but you have to be more careful in the way you communicate, specially since I know you are aware of our communication problems in Debian. > > But not, aparently Ubuntu is the only derivative that matters. > > It's the only derivative which has the infrastructure required to share > such information with us and it's the only one that's big enough so > that the information possibly hidden in their bug tracker could be of > interest to us in some cases. > I asked somebody when bloging about this issue, invite another derivated distros to submit the info about how we can tracking them. This is done now. So fine on my side. > > So please, remove the link to the ubuntu launchpad bugs and since some > > people > > think tracking derivated distros is interesting, make a new page, that can > > be > > visited optionally (or just forget about for who is not interested), where > > we > > can track whatever derivated distro people care about. > > Just forget the box in the corner... it's the same as forgetting about a page > (which would be linked from the PTS anyway). > > > Call it Debian Ecosystem Packaging Tracking System or something like that. > > You can start with Ubuntu there and if people is interested in another > > distros > > they will submit their patches, and if another distros are interested in > > being > > tracked, they will make it to be easy tracked. > > The day where we have more than one interesting distro to track, I'll > gladly do that. > > > Heck! it could even track another distros, not only derivatives and being a > > first step for sharing patches across distributions, idea that is around > > without > > any implementation. > > Of course, this would be great and I'm interested in this, but it's not > directly connected to the problem at hand. > Please, rename the bug title back to the original one and close it again (I could do it but I did not fix it :) ). I will open a new bug with this. Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:33:55PM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote: > So please, remove the link to the ubuntu launchpad bugs and since some > people think tracking derivated distros is interesting, make a new > page, that can be visited optionally (or just forget about for who is > not interested), where we can track whatever derivated distro people > care about. FWIW, I do agree with Raphael on this and many thanks to Lucas for his patch implementing the request. As a package maintainer I welcome having handy access from the PTS to the patches other Debian derivative*s* are applying to packages of mine. In this respect the added link to Ubuntu patches and other info are useful to me [1] and I do not see the benefit of removing it from the PTS. Someone implemented it, it is useful, it should stay there, simple and easy. If you care about the "discrimination" we are doing wrt other distributions the solution is easy as well: go find their data sources and go provide patches for the PTS adding support for them. A potential problem there can be that we don't want to have tens of links to external distros, but this (once and if will become a problem) can be solved using drop down menus to choose the distribution first, and the other available info then. Cheers. [1] yes, the infamous "ubuntu big patch" can be more useful if split/commented, but that's another story. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ I'm still an SGML person,this newfangled /\ All one has to do is hit the XML stuff is so ... simplistic -- Manoj \/ right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On 13/06/08 at 22:10 +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote: > OoO En ce début de soirée du vendredi 13 juin 2008, vers 21:48, Roberto > C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> disait: > > >> I fully agree with you and I am quite happy that you implemented this > >> box.Doyou plantoproposeasimilar patchfor > >> qa.debian.org/developer.php? An additional column with the bug count for > >> Ubuntu would allow to have an overview of all packages. > > > The link in the PTS is only one link, unobtrusive and does not really > > change the page dimensions. The qa.debian.org/developer.php page is > > already quite wide for "busy" packages or developers. If an additional > > column were added, it should default to off and only be switched on for > > those specifically opting in. > > I just discovered that the column is already present but hidden by > default. This is really great. Yup, it was added a few hours ago by Christoph Berg. -- | Lucas Nussbaum | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
OoO En ce début de soirée du vendredi 13 juin 2008, vers 21:48, Roberto C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> disait: >> I fully agree with you and I am quite happy that you implemented this >> box.Doyou plantoproposeasimilar patchfor >> qa.debian.org/developer.php? An additional column with the bug count for >> Ubuntu would allow to have an overview of all packages. > The link in the PTS is only one link, unobtrusive and does not really > change the page dimensions. The qa.debian.org/developer.php page is > already quite wide for "busy" packages or developers. If an additional > column were added, it should default to off and only be switched on for > those specifically opting in. I just discovered that the column is already present but hidden by default. This is really great. -- Use debugging compilers. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plauger) pgpfsdYnOnozh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 09:19:42PM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote: > OoO En ce début d'après-midi nuageux du vendredi 13 juin 2008, vers > 14:21, Lucas Nussbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> disait: > > >> I do care about what happens in whatever part of Debian on my packages, but > >> not at what happens in derivated distros. > > > Personally, I do care about Debian derivatives, and possible problems > > that users from derivatives encounter with my packages. On a few > > occasions already, a bug in Ubuntu also affected my package in Debian, > > but wasn't reported in the BTS, so I didn't know about it. So seeing > > this bug on launchpad allowed me to improve my package in Debian. > > Hi Lucas! > > I fully agree with you and I am quite happy that you implemented this > box.Doyou plantoproposeasimilar patchfor > qa.debian.org/developer.php? An additional column with the bug count for > Ubuntu would allow to have an overview of all packages. The link in the PTS is only one link, unobtrusive and does not really change the page dimensions. The qa.debian.org/developer.php page is already quite wide for "busy" packages or developers. If an additional column were added, it should default to off and only be switched on for those specifically opting in. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
OoO En ce début d'après-midi nuageux du vendredi 13 juin 2008, vers 14:21, Lucas Nussbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> disait: >> I do care about what happens in whatever part of Debian on my packages, but >> not at what happens in derivated distros. > Personally, I do care about Debian derivatives, and possible problems > that users from derivatives encounter with my packages. On a few > occasions already, a bug in Ubuntu also affected my package in Debian, > but wasn't reported in the BTS, so I didn't know about it. So seeing > this bug on launchpad allowed me to improve my package in Debian. Hi Lucas! I fully agree with you and I am quite happy that you implemented this box.Doyou plantoproposeasimilar patchfor qa.debian.org/developer.php? An additional column with the bug count for Ubuntu would allow to have an overview of all packages. -- I WILL NOT SHOW OFF I WILL NOT SHOW OFF I WILL NOT SHOW OFF -+- Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 7F21 pgpjq1bT942ju.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
Hi Ana, On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Ana Guerrero wrote: > 09:40 ana: please stop ranting > 09:41 ana: and accept my decision as PTS maintainer You might not like it, but it's how we work in such cases. For X people against, I can find X people who agree, and in such situations, unless you're ready to launch a GR, you have to accept the decison of the person in charge or be ready to do the supplementary work required to satisfy everybody (such as an option that lets you hide this box). > Accept my disagreement (and other's disgreement) as Debian Developers. I accept that you disagree, but I don't accept that you should have the last word on this topic because you are not maintaining the PTS. > But not, aparently Ubuntu is the only derivative that matters. It's the only derivative which has the infrastructure required to share such information with us and it's the only one that's big enough so that the information possibly hidden in their bug tracker could be of interest to us in some cases. > So please, remove the link to the ubuntu launchpad bugs and since some people > think tracking derivated distros is interesting, make a new page, that can be > visited optionally (or just forget about for who is not interested), where we > can track whatever derivated distro people care about. Just forget the box in the corner... it's the same as forgetting about a page (which would be linked from the PTS anyway). > Call it Debian Ecosystem Packaging Tracking System or something like that. > You can start with Ubuntu there and if people is interested in another distros > they will submit their patches, and if another distros are interested in being > tracked, they will make it to be easy tracked. The day where we have more than one interesting distro to track, I'll gladly do that. > Heck! it could even track another distros, not only derivatives and being a > first step for sharing patches across distributions, idea that is around > without > any implementation. Of course, this would be great and I'm interested in this, but it's not directly connected to the problem at hand. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:33:55PM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote: > But not, aparently Ubuntu is the only derivative that matters. I think Ubuntu only one were people have asked a link to be added. If you know a derivate distro with a open bugtracker that is easy to link to, please file a request. Most derivates seem to have a forum at best... > Heck! it could even track another distros, not only derivatives and being a > first step for sharing patches across distributions, idea that is around > without > any implementation. That would be a interesting project yes. Also to show all the different patches distros add to sources. -- "rm -rf" only sounds scary if you don't have backups -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On 13/06/08 at 13:33 +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote:
> I do care about what happens in whatever part of Debian on my packages, but
> not at what happens in derivated distros.
Personally, I do care about Debian derivatives, and possible problems
that users from derivatives encounter with my packages. On a few
occasions already, a bug in Ubuntu also affected my package in Debian,
but wasn't reported in the BTS, so I didn't know about it. So seeing
this bug on launchpad allowed me to improve my package in Debian.
> If somebody for $ANY derivative
> distro find a bug that affects to Debian, this person should report in the
> BTS or notify to Debian maintainers, whatever that works fine for both parts.
We both know that this doesn't scale well. Many Debian patches or bugs
are never pushed upstream, so we can't expect Ubuntu, who has a lot
less developers than we do, to be successful at that.
> Then you are only considering one Debian derivative when Debian has
> thousands, and we can not track all of them and not all of them have a easy
> tracking system, but there are some big ones besides Ubuntu that could be
> considered as well. For the KDE people a big derivative distro that uses KDE
> would be more interesting to track, for science people a derivative distro
> that is focused to science tools, and so on.
Do you have any derivative in mind?
> But not, aparently Ubuntu is the only derivative that matters.
Apparently, Ubuntu is the Debian derivative with the larger user base,
and also the larger number of poential bugs for Debian in its bug
tracking system. But if another derivative is interested in exporting
such data to Debian, I'll considering adapting the PTS code (I wrote the
patch for Ubuntu) so that it can be displayed as well.
> So please, remove the link to the ubuntu launchpad bugs and since some people
> think tracking derivated distros is interesting, make a new page, that can be
> visited optionally (or just forget about for who is not interested), where we
> can track whatever derivated distro people care about.
> Call it Debian Ecosystem Packaging Tracking System or something like that.
> You can start with Ubuntu there and if people is interested in another distros
> they will submit their patches, and if another distros are interested in being
> tracked, they will make it to be easy tracked.
Since so far, it seems that only Ubuntu is interest{ing,ed}, I don't
think that it's necessary to create a separate page. It's not using much
space on the PTS (and if you have suggestions for a layout that uses
even less space, please tell me).
Alternatively, someone who is motivated by that could provide a patch
that adds a javascript show/hide button, so the Ubuntu box could be
hidden by default.
> Heck! it could even track another distros, not only derivatives and being a
> first step for sharing patches across distributions, idea that is around
> without
> any implementation.
Are you willing to work on that?
--
| Lucas Nussbaum
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |
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Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Ana Guerrero wrote: reopen 483179 retitle 483179 PTS: please *do not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page thanks ... 09:41 ana: and accept my decision as PTS maintainer ... About buxy's second sentence, it is not at all a way to "finish" a discussion. Accept my disagreement (and other's disgreement) as Debian Developers. Well, independently of this quite hot topic I think you finally have to accept the decision of the author of a piece of software (except you are a customer and are paying to insert or remove a special feature). So I'm afraid buxy is de facto right here. I do care about what happens in whatever part of Debian on my packages, but not at what happens in derivated distros. If somebody for $ANY derivative distro find a bug that affects to Debian, this person should report in the BTS or notify to Debian maintainers, whatever that works fine for both parts. If reality shows that people refuse to do this - and BTW, Ububtu does not seem to actually encourage its users to report bugs also to Debian - and thus I think that a hint for the maintainer in the BTS is not really harmfull. So accepting this decision seems not to be very hard. Then you are only considering one Debian derivative when Debian has thousands, and we can not track all of them and not all of them have a easy tracking system, but there are some big ones besides Ubuntu that could be considered as well. So you rather want to retitle the bug to Please link to BTS and perhaps fork the bug report to mention every single derivative that maintains a BTS which gives us a reasonable means to link to it. Call it Debian Ecosystem Packaging Tracking System or something like that. Sonds like an alternative if we find at least three reasonable link targets. Heck! it could even track another distros, not only derivatives and being a first step for sharing patches across distributions, idea that is around without any implementation. Very good idea. But for the concrete topic I think we should not stop the pragmatic *existing* part of the solution until we might have a better one. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
On Fri, June 13, 2008 13:33, Ana Guerrero wrote: > I do care about what happens in whatever part of Debian on my packages, > but not at what happens in derivated distros. No-one forces you to use it. If you don't find that box useful, disregard it. I hardly find the debcheck info useful, so I ignore that box the vast majority of the time. How hard is that? > So please, remove the link to the ubuntu launchpad bugs and since some What's the gain in removing the link? Adding even more derivatives? Sure! Once there actually are too many to fit, they can of course be moved away to a different page but that point hasn't been reached. The point in the PTS is to improve Debian. I regularly look at Ubuntu patches and bugs not because I have an interest to make Ubuntu better, but only to make my own package better. Reading your mail, your argument is "I don't care about Ubuntu". I do not find that strong enough to make it block things that other people do care about. Maybe it would help you if every box on the page would have a small [x] button that you can click and it disappears, like some of the commercial portal apps have. This is then stored in a cookie for your convenience. Would that satisfy you? Thijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#483179: reopen 483179, PTS: please do *not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page
reopen 483179 retitle 483179 PTS: please *do not* link to Ubuntu Launchpad bugs page thanks Hi, After Sandro Tosi filed this bug in a well-meaning way, several people disagreed in this same bug report about the usefulness of this. Even after this, the feature was implemented in the BTS, I do not like it either, and raised this point in IRC, after some discussion I got an answer I did not like at all: 09:40 ana: please stop ranting 09:41 ana: and accept my decision as PTS maintainer Partially my fault because I did raise this in IRC instead of the bug report, there the "ranting" part. Now, here I'm showing my disagreement in the BTS. About buxy's second sentence, it is not at all a way to "finish" a discussion. Accept my disagreement (and other's disgreement) as Debian Developers. I do care about what happens in whatever part of Debian on my packages, but not at what happens in derivated distros. If somebody for $ANY derivative distro find a bug that affects to Debian, this person should report in the BTS or notify to Debian maintainers, whatever that works fine for both parts. IMHO, the PTS is the Packaging Tracking System *in Debian*. Then you are only considering one Debian derivative when Debian has thousands, and we can not track all of them and not all of them have a easy tracking system, but there are some big ones besides Ubuntu that could be considered as well. For the KDE people a big derivative distro that uses KDE would be more interesting to track, for science people a derivative distro that is focused to science tools, and so on. But not, aparently Ubuntu is the only derivative that matters. So please, remove the link to the ubuntu launchpad bugs and since some people think tracking derivated distros is interesting, make a new page, that can be visited optionally (or just forget about for who is not interested), where we can track whatever derivated distro people care about. Call it Debian Ecosystem Packaging Tracking System or something like that. You can start with Ubuntu there and if people is interested in another distros they will submit their patches, and if another distros are interested in being tracked, they will make it to be easy tracked. Heck! it could even track another distros, not only derivatives and being a first step for sharing patches across distributions, idea that is around without any implementation. Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
