Re: Problems with startup menu.
On April 25, 2004 15:26, Chris Cheney wrote: > The part of kde that reads the menu is actually in kdelibs-bin > "/usr/bin/kde-menu" which is used by various apps that ask you what to > open something with. So at the very least kdelibs-bin would also have > to have the suggests along with possibly kicker... That was the reason > the menu's were first moved to kdelibs-bin before being split out into > their own separate package. Ah, I see. From the point of view of the packager or developer, menu-xdg enhances kdelibs-bin, because menu-xdg relates to /usr/bin/kde-menu, which is provided by kdelibs-bin. But from the point of view of the end user, kicker provides the K menu, and it is noticeably altered by menu-xdg. Thus it should Suggest menu-xdg as well. According to this rationale, kdelibs should document the details of how it all works and why a separate package (menu-xdg) is now needed. Kicker should explain to the end-user what the Suggest will do for them, either in the package description or a README.Debian (or both). Cheers, Chris
Re: Problems with startup menu.
On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 02:55:53PM -0400, Christopher Martin wrote: > On April 25, 2004 13:10, Dominique Devriese wrote: > > Why is menu-xdg only a Recommended by kdelibs-bin ? IIUC, it is > > needed for Debian policy conformance, and as such should be a hard > > depends, no ? > > The question of which package should document and/or have a package > relationship with menu-xdg is separate from the question of the proper > strength of the package relationship. > > As to this second issue, the Debian Menu System documentation, Ch. 5, > states: > > - > Please, do not make your package depend on the menu package! The preferred > way of telling dpkg that your wm can cooperate with menu is: > > Suggests: menu > > Please only consider using "depends" if you feel providing reasonable > defaults for systems without menu will make life very difficult for you. > - > > If I understand correctly, all that Menu Policy requires of KDE is that it > give users the option of using the Debian menu system. A Depends is not > at all required, since not everyone wants to have the Debian menu system. > So a Recommends is more than enough - in fact, we really should downgrade > menu to a Suggests. GNOME, blackbox, etc. all Suggest menu. No one > Depends on it. > > Interestingly, the part of GNOME that Suggests menu is gnome-panel. Maybe > kicker should do the same, instead of kdelibs-bin. The part of kde that reads the menu is actually in kdelibs-bin "/usr/bin/kde-menu" which is used by various apps that ask you what to open something with. So at the very least kdelibs-bin would also have to have the suggests along with possibly kicker... That was the reason the menu's were first moved to kdelibs-bin before being split out into their own separate package. Chris signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Problems with startup menu.
On April 25, 2004 13:10, Dominique Devriese wrote: > Why is menu-xdg only a Recommended by kdelibs-bin ? IIUC, it is > needed for Debian policy conformance, and as such should be a hard > depends, no ? The question of which package should document and/or have a package relationship with menu-xdg is separate from the question of the proper strength of the package relationship. As to this second issue, the Debian Menu System documentation, Ch. 5, states: - Please, do not make your package depend on the menu package! The preferred way of telling dpkg that your wm can cooperate with menu is: Suggests: menu Please only consider using "depends" if you feel providing reasonable defaults for systems without menu will make life very difficult for you. - If I understand correctly, all that Menu Policy requires of KDE is that it give users the option of using the Debian menu system. A Depends is not at all required, since not everyone wants to have the Debian menu system. So a Recommends is more than enough - in fact, we really should downgrade menu to a Suggests. GNOME, blackbox, etc. all Suggest menu. No one Depends on it. Interestingly, the part of GNOME that Suggests menu is gnome-panel. Maybe kicker should do the same, instead of kdelibs-bin. Cheers, Chris
Re: Problems with startup menu.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christopher Martin wrote: > Out of curiosity, why isn't menu-xdg a Recommends of kicker or kdebase, > and perhaps documented there as well? I would guess that more people > would look to kdebase or kicker for information than kdelibs or the > dependencies of kdelibs-bin. users looking at Recommends: / Suggests? haha. MANY don't (yes, I know apt shows them nowadays but even this is sometimes ignored and bogus bugs filed...) Grüße/Regards, René - -- .''`. René Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/ `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73 `- Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB 7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAi/yd+FmQsCSK63MRAlivAJsH7OnMHAcpPnB9mc/wGhhdF4BxYQCfSYMX OyMnE1pLRoIjovlAWFaa6wo= =WuTw -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Problems with startup menu.
Christopher Martin writes: > It's only a Recommends, so a manual "apt-get install menu-xdg" is > required. The kdelibs README.Debian needs a slight update to explain > what and why is now required to get the Debian menu in KDE. > Out of curiosity, why isn't menu-xdg a Recommends of kicker or > kdebase, and perhaps documented there as well? I would guess that > more people would look to kdebase or kicker for information than > kdelibs or the dependencies of kdelibs-bin. Why is menu-xdg only a Recommended by kdelibs-bin ? IIUC, it is needed for Debian policy conformance, and as such should be a hard depends, no ? cheers domi
Re: Problems with startup menu.
Rene Engelhard writes: > Hi, > Dominique Devriese wrote: >> How could he not have this installed, since kdelibs-bin depends on >> it? > Because it doesn't: > $ apt-cache show kdelibs-bin | grep xdg Recommends: menu-xdg Hm, right, I was confused by "apt-cache rdepends menu-xdg" output. cheers domi
Re: Problems with startup menu.
It's only a Recommends, so a manual "apt-get install menu-xdg" is required. The kdelibs README.Debian needs a slight update to explain what and why is now required to get the Debian menu in KDE. Out of curiosity, why isn't menu-xdg a Recommends of kicker or kdebase, and perhaps documented there as well? I would guess that more people would look to kdebase or kicker for information than kdelibs or the dependencies of kdelibs-bin. Chris On April 25, 2004 11:52, Dominique Devriese wrote: > > # apt-get install menu-xdg > > How could he not have this installed, since kdelibs-bin depends on it? > cheers > domi
Re: Problems with startup menu.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Dominique Devriese wrote: > How could he not have this installed, since kdelibs-bin depends on it? Because it doesn't: $ apt-cache show kdelibs-bin | grep xdg Recommends: menu-xdg Grüße/Regards, René - -- .''`. René Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/ `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73 `- Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB 7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAi+m8+FmQsCSK63MRAiFzAJ41oIbz4orzsyutqxDQDqVacn0l6QCbBoBV dGZJlOsrPhM1IWY8sYI9x8A= =yNLP -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Problems with startup menu.
Adeodato Sim writes: > * Jan Hudec [Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:29:14 +0200]: >> I have a problem that "Debian" item disapeared from my start menu >> in KDE (quite recently, with update from 4:3.2.2-1 to 4:3.2.2-2). >> The /etc/menu-methods/kdelibs-bin is gone. It is reported by >> packages.debian.org as being in kdelibs-bin 4:3.2.2-2, but does not >> exist on my system (was deleted by preinst script, but never >> created nor does it exist in the .deb). >> I am not reporting this as a bug (yet), because I don't know what >> caused it. Please, tell me which things I should check. > # apt-get install menu-xdg How could he not have this installed, since kdelibs-bin depends on it? cheers domi
Re: Problems with startup menu.
* Jan Hudec [Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:29:14 +0200]: > I have a problem that "Debian" item disapeared from my start menu in > KDE (quite recently, with update from 4:3.2.2-1 to 4:3.2.2-2). > The /etc/menu-methods/kdelibs-bin is gone. It is reported by > packages.debian.org as being in kdelibs-bin 4:3.2.2-2, but does not > exist on my system (was deleted by preinst script, but never created nor > does it exist in the .deb). > I am not reporting this as a bug (yet), because I don't know what caused > it. Please, tell me which things I should check. # apt-get install menu-xdg -- Adeodato Simó (a.k.a. thibaut) EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | IM: my_dato [jabber.org] | PK: DA6AE621 Truth is the most valuable thing we have, so let's economize it. -- Mark Twain signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Problems with startup menu.
Hello, I have a problem that "Debian" item disapeared from my start menu in KDE (quite recently, with update from 4:3.2.2-1 to 4:3.2.2-2). The /etc/menu-methods/kdelibs-bin is gone. It is reported by packages.debian.org as being in kdelibs-bin 4:3.2.2-2, but does not exist on my system (was deleted by preinst script, but never created nor does it exist in the .deb). Unfortunately I don't know where the menu resides, so I can't check what is actualy on disk. The strange thing is, that I have two accounts here and one sees the Debian menu empty in kmenuedit (and it does not appear in start), while from the other kmenuedit shows it fully populated (I never run KDE session from that account). I am not reporting this as a bug (yet), because I don't know what caused it. Please, tell me which things I should check. --- Jan 'Bulb' Hudec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> signature.asc Description: Digital signature
