Re: Debian science robotics subgroup

[Jose Luis Rivero]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda  wrote:

>
> The only thing that might be worth considering, is whether you
> > think an own Debian Robotics Blend would fly (in terms of contributors
> > and number of packages).  In this case a separate packaging team might
> > make sense.
> >
>
> Well, Debian Science Team has 886 projects (source packages?). It's a big
> umbrella for all scientific packages. Maybe some subcategories (subgroups
> or
> whatever) would attract the people for a more specific project than a
> generic
> one. The problem them would be the borders, where a package/project goes
> to one
> place or other.
>
> About the robotic group  I really don't know. Jochen? Jose?
>
>
Thanks Leo for the proposal. I don't have an strong opinion on this topic
since I don't have the experience of many years that most of you have
organizing the debian-science group, so I'm happy to read others opinions
and suggestion and follow whatever you collectively decide is good.

Re: Debian science robotics subgroup

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 03:29:38PM +0100, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
> > I'm personally not scared by the flat name space.  I do not think that
> > "hiding" metainformation in a subgroup / subdir is not really helpful in
> > the end.  
> 
> I'm sorry but I don't understand you here. Maybe too much "not" and a problem 
> of
> English from my part. What are you saying, creating a subgroup/subdir is 
> helpful
> yes or not?

Please do not hide metainformation in some directory structure.  Flat
hierarchies of packages have advantages.
 
> The only thing that might be worth considering, is whether you
> > think an own Debian Robotics Blend would fly (in terms of contributors
> > and number of packages).  In this case a separate packaging team might
> > make sense.
> 
> Well, Debian Science Team has 886 projects (source packages?). It's a big
> umbrella for all scientific packages. Maybe some subcategories (subgroups or
> whatever) would attract the people for a more specific project than a generic
> one.

I do not think that subcategories would attract more people.  What
becomes more attractive is a specific Blend (in my very biased opinion).
The experience from Debian Astro is very good as far as I know.

> The problem them would be the borders, where a package/project goes to one
> place or other.

That's one problem you can avoid by a flat structure. :-P
 
Kind regards 

 Andreas.


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Re: Debian science robotics subgroup

[Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda]

On 10/01/18 11:20, Andreas Tille wrote:
> Hi Leopold,
> 
> since you give permission to post on Debian Science I do so in public.
> Please always keep the blog posting of our beloved DPL in mind!

:-)

>https://chris-lamb.co.uk/posts/dont-ask-your-questions-in-private
> 
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:08:47AM +0100, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
>> I have been thinking and looking on salsa and I would like to ask you if you
>> think that it could be interesting to have a subgroup about robotics.
>>
>> With the migration to salsa, we have lost the folder of ROS and maybe I'm a 
>> bit
>> scare to have a big namespace with all the debian science packages, but it's
>> just a personal feeling.
> 
> I'm personally not scared by the flat name space.  I do not think that
> "hiding" metainformation in a subgroup / subdir is not really helpful in
> the end.  

I'm sorry but I don't understand you here. Maybe too much "not" and a problem of
English from my part. What are you saying, creating a subgroup/subdir is helpful
yes or not?

The only thing that might be worth considering, is whether you
> think an own Debian Robotics Blend would fly (in terms of contributors
> and number of packages).  In this case a separate packaging team might
> make sense.
>  

Well, Debian Science Team has 886 projects (source packages?). It's a big
umbrella for all scientific packages. Maybe some subcategories (subgroups or
whatever) would attract the people for a more specific project than a generic
one. The problem them would be the borders, where a package/project goes to one
place or other.

About the robotic group  I really don't know. Jochen? Jose?


Leo

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Re: Debian science robotics subgroup

[Andreas Tille]

Hi Leopold,

since you give permission to post on Debian Science I do so in public.
Please always keep the blog posting of our beloved DPL in mind!

   https://chris-lamb.co.uk/posts/dont-ask-your-questions-in-private

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:08:47AM +0100, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
> I have been thinking and looking on salsa and I would like to ask you if you
> think that it could be interesting to have a subgroup about robotics.
> 
> With the migration to salsa, we have lost the folder of ROS and maybe I'm a 
> bit
> scare to have a big namespace with all the debian science packages, but it's
> just a personal feeling.

I'm personally not scared by the flat name space.  I do not think that
"hiding" metainformation in a subgroup / subdir is not really helpful in
the end.  The only thing that might be worth considering, is whether you
think an own Debian Robotics Blend would fly (in terms of contributors
and number of packages).  In this case a separate packaging team might
make sense.
 
> I don't have a strong opinion against or in favor of it. I'm just asking you 
> if
> it's worthwhile to try it.
> 
> Leo
> 
> PS feel free to answer it in the Debian Science list if you think it's more
> appropriate.

Done. :-)

Kind regards

   Andreas.


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Re: debian and robotics

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 12 May 2008, Leopold Palomo Avellaneda wrote:


Once I see that the tasks files are growing I will be
happy to add the remaining formalism to finalise the work on this.  Feel
free to tell me your alioth user name to add you to the CDD group in SVN
which grants you write permissions.


lepalom-guest


Added to CDD group.


I don't understand the -guest.


-guest is attached to all user names if the user is no official
Debian developer.  In case you would pass the Debian New Maintainer
queue you would get an account without guest attached.


The idea that I have in mind is to have to have a collection of packages in
the robotics area, co-maintained under the umbrella of a group. I don't know
if it could be some kind of : apt-get install debian-robotics


Well, the idea of Custom Debian Distributions is to support specialized
user environments.  One part of doing so is to create so called
meta packages (see CDD paper [1]) which simplify the installation of
a set of packages that are useful to solve a certain task in this
field of specialisation.  So even if the Project is called Debian Robotics
the meta packages are typically called

robotics-task1
robotics-task2
...

But the Debian GIS people currently also do have stuff for only one
single meta package gis-workstation - which is perfectly valid.


Also, looking the repository, I think that robotics should go under
debian-science and not at the same level IMHO.


Well, exactly this is my advise for not fully grown CDDs in preparation
as you might call this.  Stay under the umbrella of a larger Debian
Science CDD is a good idea if you are lacking man power or if there are
just to view packages available to make a big fuzz about it.  On the
other hand we currently you mentioned three tasks for the robotics
field (collision-detection, common, typesetting) and the current technique
is not able to handle several levels - and I do not see any need for
this.  According to your suggestion robotics-typesetting is rather a copy
of science-typesetting.  If robotics stays under science the issue is
void and science-typesetting can be used.  Moreover robotics-common might
actually become science-robotics and robotics-collision-detection
contains only one single package that might be perfectly integrated into
common for the moment.

I just turned this into code in the debian-robotics dir of the CDD
repository.  My advise would be to fill the gaps in the remaining
tasks files (all the missing Homepage, License, Pkg-Description fields).
Due to quality issues we can not move the robotics task to debian-science
dir, because the web pages for robotics would be rendered quite ugly and
I would hate half-brewn stuff in this field.  Just tell me once you are
finished and we move the robotics task to debian-science and drop
debian-robotics until more people might join your team.


Otherwise, I have a lot of things to do


Sure.  Don't underestimate the work.  Just start with the small piece
you can do for the moment and see how it evolves.

Kind regards

  Andreas.

[1] http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/

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Re: debian and robotics

[Leopold Palomo Avellaneda]

A Divendres 09 Maig 2008, vàreu escriure:
 On Thu, 8 May 2008, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
  Well, I'm working in an specific field of the robotics. But for example
  the list could have:
 
  - rtai
  - xenomai
  RTOS, both in debian now.
 
  - rtnet, not in debian. Modules to have real time extension to the
  network.
 
  - orocos, with debian packages but not in debian
  - orca, not in debian
  - roboop not in debian
 
  - opencv , in debian
  - comedi, in debian ... maybe a bit old?
 
  - octave, coin3d, vtk, gnuplot, boost, opende
  in debian
 
  For collision detection, I think we have nothing. Maybe,
  - d-collide
 
  Also all the typical apps for the scientific write.

 Well, I tried to turn this list into code which is available at

   
 http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/projects/robotics/trunk/debian-robotics/task
s/?rev=0sc=0

 Please note: I will _NOT_ continue this work. 

Ok, thanks for do it.

 It might serve as a kick 
 start for you.  You can bother me with questions.  Several answers to this
 questions should be given in the CDD paper[1] and if you prefer examples
 over documantation just look at debian-science or debian-med at the same
 location as above. 

Ok.

 Once I see that the tasks files are growing I will be 
 happy to add the remaining formalism to finalise the work on this.  Feel
 free to tell me your alioth user name to add you to the CDD group in SVN
 which grants you write permissions.

lepalom-guest

I don't understand the -guest.

Andreas,

This mail was began on friday, because I was in a little trip, but I did a 
mistake and I couldn't send it. But, I come back and I can write you again.

The idea that I have in mind is to have to have a collection of packages in 
the robotics area, co-maintained under the umbrella of a group. I don't know 
if it could be some kind of : apt-get install debian-robotics

But, I would like to begin to be centered in some packages that I know and 
then from that point see how could it grow. However, I should read [1] more 
careful.

Also, looking the repository, I think that robotics should go under 
debian-science and not at the same level IMHO.

Otherwise, I have a lot of things to do

Regards,

Leo



[1] http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/
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Re: debian and robotics

[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:


Well, I'm working in an specific field of the robotics. But for example the
list could have:

- rtai
- xenomai
RTOS, both in debian now.

- rtnet, not in debian. Modules to have real time extension to the network.

- orocos, with debian packages but not in debian
- orca, not in debian
- roboop not in debian

- opencv , in debian
- comedi, in debian ... maybe a bit old?

- octave, coin3d, vtk, gnuplot, boost, opende
in debian

For collision detection, I think we have nothing. Maybe,
- d-collide

Also all the typical apps for the scientific write.


Well, I tried to turn this list into code which is available at

  
http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/projects/robotics/trunk/debian-robotics/tasks/?rev=0sc=0

Please note: I will _NOT_ continue this work.  It might serve as a kick start
for you.  You can bother me with questions.  Several answers to this questions
should be given in the CDD paper[1] and if you prefer examples over 
documantation
just look at debian-science or debian-med at the same location as above.  Once
I see that the tasks files are growing I will be happy to add the remaining
formalism to finalise the work on this.  Feel free to tell me your alioth
user name to add you to the CDD group in SVN which grants you write permissions.

Kind regards

   Andreas.

[1] http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/

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Re: debian and robotics

[Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda]

A Dijous 08 Maig 2008, Andreas Tille va escriure:
 On Wed, 7 May 2008, Leopold Palomo Avellaneda wrote:
  The robotics area is very wide. To many kind of packages could go there,

 You should probably come up with a list of these many packages to gain the
 interest of people here.

Well, I'm working in an specific field of the robotics. But for example the 
list could have:

- rtai
- xenomai
RTOS, both in debian now. 

- rtnet, not in debian. Modules to have real time extension to the network.

- orocos, with debian packages but not in debian
- orca, not in debian
- roboop not in debian

- opencv , in debian
- comedi, in debian ... maybe a bit old?

- octave, coin3d, vtk, gnuplot, boost, opende 
in debian

For collision detection, I think we have nothing. Maybe,
- d-collide

Also all the typical apps for the scientific write.

  so, depends on the people, the interest, etc  the idea could be possible
  or not.

 The idea is always possible. ;-)

:-)

 The question is rather whether enough people are willing to do the grunt
 work.  With the Debian Med project I gained the experience that starting
 with real work and presenting something that exists is the best way to
 convince people to join the project.  The amount of work I had to do for
 this project convinced me, that engaging in one CDD is work enough to
 not start another one myself - so I can hopefully be helpful but not
 on the top of the activities for some other CDD.  (As a physicist by
 profession I would feel competent for a Debian Physics CDD but I stay
 away from this job for simple time limitations.)

  Also, I don't know how to put this in a debian-scince cdd.

 I would strongly advise to start with a tasks file inside debian-science
 like you can find in the SVN at

 svn://svn.debian.org/cdd/projects/science/trunk/debian-science/tasks

 Just follow the scheme of the other tasks files and add the packages you
 consider relevant.  This might be a good test case whether there is really
 enough stuff for a separate Debian Robotics.

Ok, in the TODO list.

Thanks,

Leo


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Re: debian and robotics

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Leopold Palomo Avellaneda wrote:


The robotics area is very wide. To many kind of packages could go there,


You should probably come up with a list of these many packages to gain the
interest of people here.


so, depends on the people, the interest, etc  the idea could be possible or not.


The idea is always possible. ;-)
The question is rather whether enough people are willing to do the grunt
work.  With the Debian Med project I gained the experience that starting
with real work and presenting something that exists is the best way to
convince people to join the project.  The amount of work I had to do for
this project convinced me, that engaging in one CDD is work enough to
not start another one myself - so I can hopefully be helpful but not
on the top of the activities for some other CDD.  (As a physicist by
profession I would feel competent for a Debian Physics CDD but I stay
away from this job for simple time limitations.)


Also, I don't know how to put this in a debian-scince cdd.


I would strongly advise to start with a tasks file inside debian-science
like you can find in the SVN at

   svn://svn.debian.org/cdd/projects/science/trunk/debian-science/tasks

Just follow the scheme of the other tasks files and add the packages you
consider relevant.  This might be a good test case whether there is really
enough stuff for a separate Debian Robotics.

Kind regards

Andreas.

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