Re: Torque in Debian?
Hi Steffen, On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 07:58:29PM +0100, Steffen Moeller wrote: Now 2.4 is out and there should only be a single 2.4 branch left. I understand 2.4 is now stable and the packaging is what can be found in trunk. However, I don't see any recent changes to trunk, and the changelog is prepared for 2.4.0b1, last modified in December 2008. Is this correct, or is there another place where we I should look for a newer tree? On another topic, some people asked why not move this package to the debian-science repo. I tend to agree with them, and it would be fairly trivial to do. Thanks, Jordi -- Jordi Mallach Pérez -- Debian developer http://www.debian.org/ jo...@sindominio.net jo...@debian.org http://www.sindominio.net/ GnuPG public key information available at http://oskuro.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Torque in Debian?
Hi Jordi, Jordi Mallach wrote: On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 07:58:29PM +0100, Steffen Moeller wrote: Now 2.4 is out and there should only be a single 2.4 branch left. I understand 2.4 is now stable and the packaging is what can be found in trunk. However, I don't see any recent changes to trunk, and the changelog is prepared for 2.4.0b1, last modified in December 2008. Is this correct, or is there another place where we I should look for a newer tree? Hm. I did something for 2.3.7 which you may want to compare against the trunk. On another topic, some people asked why not move this package to the debian-science repo. I tend to agree with them, and it would be fairly trivial to do. given the silence that Morten and I produce, I can only follow you in your suggestion. I cannot tell if I have commit rights for debian-science. If you continue caring for torque on Debian, then I presume to speak for Morten when I now suggest to please adopt the package and you are free to move it to whereever you want. The major challenge from my perspective is to remain compatible with the users of torque under Ubuntu, i.e. the package Morten is maintaining for years. Sombody may cry foul here, but I am deeply convinced that the stream of packages from Debian to Ubuntu is something extremely valuable and we should care about it. What Daniel once nicely seeded was the separation of the builds for the command line binaries vs the ones with X GUI. I am uncertain for the moment if this is in the trunk. If not then please merge it from the debian branch. Many greetings Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Torque in Debian?
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 07:58:29PM +0100, Steffen Moeller wrote: I am somewhat lost myself. Yes, I wanted to upload the Ubuntu approach of 2.3 and then move towards the Debian approach for 2.4, but I have never uploaded anything for 2.3 because of my uncertainty about it being in main or non-free. Now 2.4 is out and there should only be a single 2.4 branch left. Ok. When I come back from vacation, I'll try to merge all my changes to the ubuntu branch in trunk, if they still apply. I don't agree that «multiverse» corresponds 100% to «non-free». I think there are several pieces of software in Debian main that are kept in Ubuntu multiverse. In any case, back when I started packaging torque and then joined the common effort, I looked torque's licence and couldn't find anything that could make it plain non-free. If my opinion counts, we should make our initial upload target main, and let the ftp team decide. We shouldn't go the non-free route just because we don't knw what they'll say. If the package is rejected, it's very easy to reupload with the changed sections. The FTP team is only human. I think. We should not bring Debian into trouble just because we could not decide for ourselves and the FTP team made an error in judgement. In my (updated) mind, what is not clearly free is non-free. I agree with what Michael said: it's the ftp-master's job to decide. Again, I have looked at the licence and I really can't find anything non-free. The advertising clause is a pain in the ass, but as far as I know it is DFSG. I insist that we shouldn't drop this to non-free without an official ftp-master statement, be it an IRC comment, a reply to a mail discussing the topic, or via a REJECT message. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 09:28:04AM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: we should make our initial upload target main, and let the ftp team decide. We shouldn't go the non-free route just because we don't knw what they'll say. If the package is rejected, it's very easy to reupload with the changed sections. It might be better to ask them directly for their opinion, instead of just uploading the package ? I think we've done that. At least I've done it, via IRC and email, but I got nothing back. Jordi -- Jordi Mallach Pérez -- Debian developer http://www.debian.org/ jo...@sindominio.net jo...@debian.org http://www.sindominio.net/ GnuPG public key information available at http://oskuro.net/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Torque in Debian?
Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 19/12/09 at 16:30 +0100, Jordi Mallach wrote: In any case, back when I started packaging torque and then joined the common effort, I looked torque's licence and couldn't find anything that could make it plain non-free. If my opinion counts, we should make our initial upload target main, and let the ftp team decide. We shouldn't go the non-free route just because we don't knw what they'll say. If the package is rejected, it's very easy to reupload with the changed sections. It might be better to ask them directly for their opinion, instead of just uploading the package ? I have asked but received no reply. I could ask again, but then - it is not their decision. Is is primarily mine/Morten's and they can reject it. And I and Morten tend towards non-free. Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Torque in Debian?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 04:50:21PM +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: Oh, that. Yes it is a complicated situation, which doesn't get any better by the fact that the Torque maintainers don't give a d*mn about license issues. AFAIK several people have emailed them about it and they never answer. The current Torque effort is the result of several forked projects the history of which are pretty much lost in the annals... in my memory at least :-) Wow, it seems the confusions keep going even when we have a common SVN for the torque packaging. Having several active branches doesn't help, though. I had been working on fixes to packaging in the 2.3.x_ubuntu branch, as I had been told (or so I thought) that it was the 2.3.x version that we wanted to upload to Debian, in order to cause as little disruption as possible to the Debian - Ubuntu merge. Now I learn I should have been working in trunk. Should I merge my work there? In Ubuntu, the torque package resides in Multiverse which corresponds to the non-free section of Debian. Torque has it's own peculiar license which tends to make the archive-admins nervous. It is my conviction however, that Torque in practice is FOSS perhaps even FLOSS. I don't agree that «multiverse» corresponds 100% to «non-free». I think there are several pieces of software in Debian main that are kept in Ubuntu multiverse. In any case, back when I started packaging torque and then joined the common effort, I looked torque's licence and couldn't find anything that could make it plain non-free. If my opinion counts, we should make our initial upload target main, and let the ftp team decide. We shouldn't go the non-free route just because we don't knw what they'll say. If the package is rejected, it's very easy to reupload with the changed sections. Thanks, Jordi -- Jordi Mallach Pérez -- Debian developer http://www.debian.org/ jo...@sindominio.net jo...@debian.org http://www.sindominio.net/ GnuPG public key information available at http://oskuro.net/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Torque in Debian?
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 07:58:29PM +0100, Steffen Moeller wrote: In my (updated) mind, what is not clearly free is non-free. So please explain which parts of the license you consider non-free and why. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: pkg-escience [Was: Re: Torque in Debian?]
Sylvestre Ledru wrote: Le jeudi 10 décembre 2009 à 16:50 +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard a écrit : Hi Dirk, I seem to recall that someone once mentioned packaging of Morten's Torque packages from Ubuntu. I also seem to recall Steffen saying that he was in contact with Morten. Based on quick search of my mail folder I can't find traces of either. Could someone kindly refresh my memory? We are now co-maintaining the package in Debian's pkg-escience team [0]. The version that is currently in Ubuntu is in one of the branches. Steffen and I had independently packaged Torque, but our efforts are now essentially merged in trunk. Not related to Torque but just for curiosity, why did you call this team pkg-escience ? There was a time when I was seriously interested to have Taverna packaged for Debian. And Taverna is one of the icons of the eScience movement. It is on alioth such that everyone interested can contribute. The packaging of Taverna is however difficult, I ran into bugs when substituting the distributed .jar files with my self-compiled ones, and nobody could suggest what version of the respective .jars to take. It would probably help the community to get this all sorted out, I have hence not removed those bits from the server, but it will probably wait for my retirement to happen. Since then, the pkg-escience project became a let's not disturb anyone kind of meeting place for various technical applications. Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Torque in Debian?
Hello, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: I seem to recall that someone once mentioned packaging of Morten's Torque packages from Ubuntu. I also seem to recall Steffen saying that he was in contact with Morten. Based on quick search of my mail folder I can't find traces of either. Could someone kindly refresh my memory? We are now co-maintaining the package in Debian's pkg-escience team [0]. The version that is currently in Ubuntu is in one of the branches. Steffen and I had independently packaged Torque, but our efforts are now essentially merged in trunk. It is my intention to upload the merged version to Ubuntu in the current development cycle (Lucid). There is a single bug in LP that can hopefully be closed along with that. The new 2.4 version of Torque has seen its official praise now, indeed. You may forgive my comment indicating that since gridengine is in Debian already and accepted as Free, my interest in Torque has considerably been reduced, though. We are just migrating to gridengine here. [ Google sees traces of informal packaging of Torque on non-Debian repos and prior debian-legal discussion -- did that ever progress beyond the earlier Nope ? ] Oh, that. Yes it is a complicated situation, which doesn't get any better by the fact that the Torque maintainers don't give a d*mn about license issues. AFAIK several people have emailed them about it and they never answer. They do answer, they just answer that they don't answer, suggesting not to package it when we don't like it. I met upstream at their booth at the supercomputing conference in Hamburg and had a few emails with them afterwards. Without a clear go-ahead that the software shall be considered as Free, it should go to the non-free section IMHO. The current Torque effort is the result of several forked projects the history of which are pretty much lost in the annals... in my memory at least :-) In Ubuntu, the torque package resides in Multiverse which corresponds to the non-free section of Debian. Torque has it's own peculiar license which tends to make the archive-admins nervous. It is my conviction however, that Torque in practice is FOSS perhaps even FLOSS. I agree. This is why I still think that the package should appear after all. Concerning the packaging, it is ready to be uploaded IMO. Actually, it was only a comment on the free vs non-free issue in a favour of free that let me retract a previous upload of 2.3 to Debian. I solidified my stance towards non-free by now but was too busy since then to bother about reuploading. The installation of the debconf-savvy gridengine-exec is lovely in my mind. Morten views this all a bit differently and prefers a non-communicating installation, which is also fine. He is the boss :) Morten, whenever you want me to upload 2.4, tell me. Many greetings Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: pkg-escience [Was: Re: Torque in Debian?]
On 11/12/2009 11:44, Steffen Moeller wrote: Sylvestre Ledru wrote: Le jeudi 10 décembre 2009 à 16:50 +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard a écrit : We are now co-maintaining the package in Debian's pkg-escience team [0]. The version that is currently in Ubuntu is in one of the branches. Steffen and I had independently packaged Torque, but our efforts are now essentially merged in trunk. Not related to Torque but just for curiosity, why did you call this team pkg-escience ? There was a time when I was seriously interested to have Taverna packaged for Debian. And Taverna is one of the icons of the eScience movement. It is on alioth such that everyone interested can contribute. The packaging of Taverna is however difficult, I ran into bugs when substituting the distributed .jar files with my self-compiled ones, and nobody could suggest what version of the respective .jars to take. It would probably help the community to get this all sorted out, I have hence not removed those bits from the server, but it will probably wait for my retirement to happen. Since then, the pkg-escience project became a let's not disturb anyone kind of meeting place for various technical applications. OK, thanks for the explanation. I understand why you picked up this name but it creates an important confusion with Debian Science... We already have a confusion between Debian Science and pkg-scicomp (we are working to solve this issue), I don't see the point of adding a third. You could also use Debian science for your various technical applications without disturbing anyone (we are nice people). It remains one of the goal of Debian Science... Sylvestre -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Torque in Debian?
Hi Dirk, I seem to recall that someone once mentioned packaging of Morten's Torque packages from Ubuntu. I also seem to recall Steffen saying that he was in contact with Morten. Based on quick search of my mail folder I can't find traces of either. Could someone kindly refresh my memory? We are now co-maintaining the package in Debian's pkg-escience team [0]. The version that is currently in Ubuntu is in one of the branches. Steffen and I had independently packaged Torque, but our efforts are now essentially merged in trunk. It is my intention to upload the merged version to Ubuntu in the current development cycle (Lucid). There is a single bug in LP that can hopefully be closed along with that. [ Google sees traces of informal packaging of Torque on non-Debian repos and prior debian-legal discussion -- did that ever progress beyond the earlier Nope ? ] Oh, that. Yes it is a complicated situation, which doesn't get any better by the fact that the Torque maintainers don't give a d*mn about license issues. AFAIK several people have emailed them about it and they never answer. The current Torque effort is the result of several forked projects the history of which are pretty much lost in the annals... in my memory at least :-) In Ubuntu, the torque package resides in Multiverse which corresponds to the non-free section of Debian. Torque has it's own peculiar license which tends to make the archive-admins nervous. It is my conviction however, that Torque in practice is FOSS perhaps even FLOSS. Cheers, Morten [0] http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-escience/torque/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
pkg-escience [Was: Re: Torque in Debian?]
Le jeudi 10 décembre 2009 à 16:50 +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard a écrit : Hi Dirk, I seem to recall that someone once mentioned packaging of Morten's Torque packages from Ubuntu. I also seem to recall Steffen saying that he was in contact with Morten. Based on quick search of my mail folder I can't find traces of either. Could someone kindly refresh my memory? We are now co-maintaining the package in Debian's pkg-escience team [0]. The version that is currently in Ubuntu is in one of the branches. Steffen and I had independently packaged Torque, but our efforts are now essentially merged in trunk. Not related to Torque but just for curiosity, why did you call this team pkg-escience ? Sylvestre -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Torque in Debian?
I seem to recall that someone once mentioned packaging of Morten's Torque packages from Ubuntu. I also seem to recall Steffen saying that he was in contact with Morten. Based on quick search of my mail folder I can't find traces of either. Could someone kindly refresh my memory? [ Google sees traces of informal packaging of Torque on non-Debian repos and prior debian-legal discussion -- did that ever progress beyond the earlier Nope ? ] Dirk -- Three out of two people have difficulties with fractions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-science-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
