Re: Ethernet lockup

2003-06-03 Thread David List
On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Ben Collins wrote:

>On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:17:58PM +0200, David List wrote:
>> I have noticed a thread on this list around a week ago that dealt with
>> the ethernet lockup with the Linux hme driver.
>> There was a posting by Joshua Uziel that pointed to a patch to this
>> driver. I'm new to Debian so my question may seem strange to some here,
>> but I cannot see how to use this patch since the 2.4.18 kernel that
>> comes with my 3.0_r1 installation seems to be monolithic, and vanilla
>> kernel source does not build on my system.
>
>2.4.21-rc7 should build just fine. If you still have problems, I'll be
>posting about 2.4.21-rc7 based kernel deb's in the next 12 hours. I'll
>also provide a 2.4.21-rc7 based netinst ISO.

Great. I'll look into that. Thank you for your answer.

Best regards,
David List



Re: Re (4): [debian-sparc] Re: XFree86 in Woody on sun4c.

2003-06-03 Thread Peter Mathiasson
On Fri, Jun 03, 1994 at 12:36:17PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So now "startx xpdf" concludes thus.
> '/usr/X11R6/bin/xterm:  bad command line option "xpdf"
> 
> usage:  /usr/X11R6/bin/xterm [-version] [-help] [-display displayname]

You'll have to use full path to xpdf, else it'll get passed as
parameters to xterm.

startx `which xpdf` will run xpdf. startx xpdf will run "xterm pdf".

-- 
Peter Mathiasson, peter at mathiasson dot nu, http://www.mathiasson.nu
GPG Fingerprint: A9A7 F8F6 9821 F415 B066 77F1 7FF5 C2E6 7BF2 F228



Re: Memory issues E450

2003-06-03 Thread Rene van Dijk
> The machine shows this message, but usually doesn't freezes.

In my case the machine does freeze, to be exact, the system isn't reachable by 
ethernet,
normal processes (mrtg collection) are not running. If you hookup a monitor the 
errors are
rolling over the display.

Regards

Rene

-- 
RT[F]M van Dijk



Re: Memory issues E450

2003-06-03 Thread Igor TAmara
Hi, I'm having problems with an Enterprise 450, it shows the same error
discussed on this thread:

May 20 15:07:07 sirio kernel: CPU[1]: Correctable ECC Error AFSR[18810] 
AFAR[0f551f50] UDBL[dd] UDBH[1c8]
May 20 15:07:07 sirio kernel: CPU[1]: UDBH Syndrome[3] Memory Module "190x"

My kernel info
Linux sirio 2.4.18 #2 SMP Thu Dec 12 10:15:11 COT 2002 sparc64 unknown

I ran test-all from the obp, but wasn't able to run test /memory from
there.

The machine shows this message, but usually doesn't freezes.

Which other test would I run in order to get a clue?

Thanks in advance

Martin> > I don't know if there is a memtest for sparc, but the Sun hardware 
monitors 
Martin> > its memory all the time.
Martin> IIRC test /memory from OpenBoot should do the trick.
Martin> 
Martin> Sweet Dreams,
Martin>  - Martin
Martin>  
Martin> -- 
Martin> Martin
Martin> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Martin> "Seasons change, things come to pass"
Martin> 
Martin> 
Martin> -- 
Martin> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Martin> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Martin> 

-- 
-- 39 cosas que no quisieras escuchar de tu administrador de red --
 (22/39) compi qué?
http://www.tamarapatino.org/igor/jokes/nomyadminplease.php



Re: SPARC and CUPS

2003-06-03 Thread Matthew French
On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 04:00, Mike M wrote:
> My Epson parallel port printer is currently hanging off of a W98 machine and 
> I use CUPS clients on my Linux WS to print using the machine.  I'd like to 
> hang the printer off the SPARC fileserver and turn it into a print server as 
> well.

I use my Ultra 5 as an everything server (firewall, CVS, Samba, apache,
X server and of course CUPS). I have it attached to an HP1100 which the
kernel autodetects properly. It works fine, the only issue is that the
priner is a little slow, which I suspect is because CUPS/Ghostscript is
sending the page as a bitmap instead of as PCL.

My kernel is 2.4.21-rc3.

The relevant section of my config follows. Don't forget to modprobe
parport_pc, parport and lp.

HTH,

- Matthew

=== .config =

#
# Parallel port support
#
CONFIG_PARPORT=m
CONFIG_PARPORT_PC=m
CONFIG_PARPORT_PC_CML1=m
CONFIG_PARPORT_SERIAL=m
# CONFIG_PARPORT_PC_FIFO is not set
# CONFIG_PARPORT_PC_SUPERIO is not set
CONFIG_PARPORT_PC_PCMCIA=m
# CONFIG_PARPORT_AMIGA is not set
# CONFIG_PARPORT_MFC3 is not set
# CONFIG_PARPORT_ATARI is not set
# CONFIG_PARPORT_GSC is not set
# CONFIG_PARPORT_SUNBPP is not set
# CONFIG_PARPORT_OTHER is not set
CONFIG_PARPORT_1284=y
 




Re: Ethernet lockup

2003-06-03 Thread Ben Collins
On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:17:58PM +0200, David List wrote:
> I have noticed a thread on this list around a week ago that dealt with
> the ethernet lockup with the Linux hme driver.
> There was a posting by Joshua Uziel that pointed to a patch to this
> driver. I'm new to Debian so my question may seem strange to some here,
> but I cannot see how to use this patch since the 2.4.18 kernel that
> comes with my 3.0_r1 installation seems to be monolithic, and vanilla
> kernel source does not build on my system.

2.4.21-rc7 should build just fine. If you still have problems, I'll be
posting about 2.4.21-rc7 based kernel deb's in the next 12 hours. I'll
also provide a 2.4.21-rc7 based netinst ISO.

-- 
Debian - http://www.debian.org/
Linux 1394 - http://www.linux1394.org/
Subversion - http://subversion.tigris.org/
Deqo   - http://www.deqo.com/



Re (4): [debian-sparc] Re: XFree86 in Woody on sun4c.

2003-06-03 Thread peter_easthope
Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:34:53 +0200 (CEST) Erwann Abalea said,
ea> Try setting the "Device" to "/dev/sunmouse" and the "Protocol" to
"BusMouse".

OK.  That appears to work.

ea> I don't know if that's [two "InputDevice" sections in 
XF86Config-4] intended or not. But if some people have several
mice, then there must be several InputDevice sections of type mouse in the
config file.

A single "InputDevice" section seems OK in 
this case.  The 2nd is commented out.  I'll
assume that debconf was overzealous.

So now "startx xpdf" concludes thus.
'/usr/X11R6/bin/xterm:  bad command line option "xpdf"

usage:  /usr/X11R6/bin/xterm [-version] [-help] [-display displayname]
   ...

Type /usr/X11R6/bin/xterm -help for a full description.'

Any insight about xterm getting into the 
act here?  I've scanned the initialization 
files and the manpages for startx & etc. 
Nothing particularly relevant.

Thanks,Peter E.

 http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/



Re: [debian-sparc] Which is best distro for Ultra 10

2003-06-03 Thread Martin
> > -  Debian Linux distro available on debian site is for SPARC so will this 
> > work
> > on this ULTRA10 machine?
> Your Ultra10 *is* a Sparc machine. In fact, it's an UltraSparc machine (64
> bits). So Debian *will* work on it.
The classes of Sparc processor in Sun Microsystems equipment are sun4,
sun4c, sun4d, sun4m and sun4u.  sun4c and sun4m are probably the best
supported, covering SPARCStaion 1 -> 20, etc.  sun4d (things like
SPARCServer 1000) had support under the 2.2 series kernel but AFAIK
aren't supported on 2.4 yet (if anyone can tell me the status I'd love
to know as I have one next to me that wants a Debain install). sun4
machines are very old and I'm not sure of the current status of support
-t here was limited support at one point.  sun4u covers all of the
UltraSPARC processors and is well supported.  IIRC there are also sun4e
machines but they are very rare and turned up in things like Tadpole
laptops, etc.

> > -  The application which I want to port uses C/C++, Informix7.1, DataView 
> > (for
> > GUI features). This application is originally built on HP-UX 10.20. So is
> > Debian a good choice?
> Wrong question. The good one is: will you be able to rewrite or work
> around everything that doesn't exist yet under Linux for Sparc? For
> example, I don't know if Informix or DataView have been ported to this
> architecture/OS combination. If not, will you be able to work around
> them?
Also how much support do you need - does the database have to run on the
same machine?  What about graphical display?  It might also be worth
looking to see if there are Solaris binaries avaliable and whetehr you
can get them to run on Linux/SPARC.

> > - Are there any porting guidelines document available? If yes then where 
> > can I
> > find them?
> A good C or C++ compiler, a good debugger, a good documentation of your
> product, and a lot of cleverness.
Those nice folk at Debian & dselect have given me the gcc tool chain and
more documentation than I could shake a stick at - any idea where I can
get the last one from?
:-)

Sweet Dreams,
 - Martin
 
-- 
Martin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Seasons change, things come to pass"



Re: Memory issues E450

2003-06-03 Thread Rene van Dijk
Hi,

> Looks to me bad memory in one of the banks, try booting with less memory
> (remove Dimms).

I am affraid this could be the problem, now I need to find out which bank could 
be faulty.
To bad the crashes are at random and I don't have a trouble shooting turnaround 
time could
be several weeks. I need a stable system before I go on my summer vacation. My 
team
members doesn't have a single clue how to reboot/boot the system... and what to 
do if its
waiting for a fsck by hand...

Memory is 3rd party (solair) not covered by sun waranty


Greets,

Rene
-- 
RT[F]M van Dijk



Ethernet lockup

2003-06-03 Thread David List
I have noticed a thread on this list around a week ago that dealt with
the ethernet lockup with the Linux hme driver.
There was a posting by Joshua Uziel that pointed to a patch to this
driver. I'm new to Debian so my question may seem strange to some here,
but I cannot see how to use this patch since the 2.4.18 kernel that
comes with my 3.0_r1 installation seems to be monolithic, and vanilla
kernel source does not build on my system.

How does one go about this?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
David List



Re: SCSI ERRORS

2003-06-03 Thread Stefan Naewe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Montag, 2. Juni 2003 23:27 schrieb Sébastien Canchon:
> Hello,
>
> I have an SS20, running Debian gnu/linux 3.0rc1, with two disk scsi ... all
> works fine, but 10 minutes ago, when I have reboot the machine i have:
>
> scsi : aborting command due to timeout : pid 11, scsi0, channel 0, id 3,
> lun 0 Test Unit Ready 00 00 00 00 00 esp0: Aborting command
> esp0: dumping state
> esp0: dma -- cond_reg addr
> esp0: SW [sreg<00> sstep<00> ireg<20>]
> esp0: HW reread [sreg<12> sstep ireg<00>]
> esp0: current command [tgt<03> lun<00> pphase cphase]
> esp0: disconnected
> SCSI host 0 abort (pid 11) timed out - resetting
> SCSI bus is being reset for host 0 channel 0.
> esp0: Resetting scsi bus
> esp0: Gross error sreg=40
> esp0: SCSI bus reset interrupt
> SCSI host 0 channel 0 reset (pid 11) timed out - trying harder
> SCSI bus is being reset for host 0 channel 0.
> esp0: Resetting scsi bus
> esp0: SCSI bus reset interrupt
> esp0: SCSI bus reset interrupt
> SCSI host 0 reset (pid 11) timed out again -
> probably an unrecoverable SCSI bus or device hang.

I've seen that error on my SS10 with two disks as well. Do you
have an external device (e.g. CD-ROM, Streamer) connected ?
That error seemed to happen less frequently after I disconnected my external
CD-ROM drive.


Stefan
- -- 
- -
Stefan Naewe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) GNU/Linux User #165035
PGP-Key: FF26 564E FB8D 70E8 A607  9C97 1950 C3AE CFBD 78B0

It's most certainly GNU/Linux, not Linux. Read more at
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html.
- -
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+3OTeGVDDrs+9eLARAvmVAJ9nkJ9OxlT7Kd6JFw/O02kcCtxRewCgmZRc
9SrrvA5BIa5WC2VfYwyqhWw=
=FHp1
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Re: [debian-sparc] Which is best distro for Ultra 10

2003-06-03 Thread Mike M
On Tuesday 03 June 2003 13:34, Erwann Abalea wrote:
> > - Are there any porting guidelines document available? If yes then where
> > can I find them?
>
> A good C or C++ compiler, a good debugger, a good documentation of your
> product, and a lot of cleverness. That's all you need.

Be aware of CPU "endian-ness".  This is a concern in Intel to Sparc porting.  
Not sure about HP to Sparc.  Google on "endian" for more info.  It may only 
be a concern if you exchange binary information with other computers in units 
large than a byte (octet of bits).

Don't forget about patience and perseverence being needed also :-).
-- 
Mike M.



Re: [debian-sparc] Which is best distro for Ultra 10

2003-06-03 Thread Erwann Abalea
Hello,

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Amit Mehra wrote:

> Thank you very much for your reply. I am new to Sun and systems and hence

Sun *and* systems? You're new to computers?

> these questions. In order to start my work on this I need to first find out
> the Sun system configuration I am using. What I know is its a Sun Ultra10 (4
> PCI, SPARC-IIi 300MHz and 256 RAM). Which I found after looking at the system
> and then while scanning the messages file.

Right.

> -  Debian Linux distro available on debian site is for SPARC so will this work
> on this ULTRA10 machine?

Your Ultra10 *is* a Sparc machine. In fact, it's an UltraSparc machine (64
bits). So Debian *will* work on it.

> -  The application which I want to port uses C/C++, Informix7.1, DataView (for
> GUI features). This application is originally built on HP-UX 10.20. So is
> Debian a good choice?

Wrong question. The good one is: will you be able to rewrite or work
around everything that doesn't exist yet under Linux for Sparc? For
example, I don't know if Informix or DataView have been ported to this
architecture/OS combination. If not, will you be able to work around
them? Debian or another Linux distro, that's not important.

> - The application(Switch Surveillance system used for Telecom Network
> Management)  has major control through the GUI features, so will Debian be the
> right disrto to use?

Why couldn't it be? Debian is a good choice if you're smart enough to port
your software. Aurora or any other Linux distribution will lead to the
same questions and answers.

> - Are there any porting guidelines document available? If yes then where can I
> find them?

A good C or C++ compiler, a good debugger, a good documentation of your
product, and a lot of cleverness. That's all you need.

-- 
Erwann ABALEA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - RSA PGP Key ID: 0x2D0EABD5
-
« Voyons-voir : est-ce que ma question est vraiment conne ? Oh oui,
vraiment trop conne, je vais poster dans "premiers-pas", je posterai
dans "configuration" quand je serai moins con. »
-+-JLC - Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet - Bien configurer sa question -+-



Re: [debian-sparc] Which is best distro for Ultra 10

2003-06-03 Thread Martin
> -  Debian Linux distro available on debian site is for SPARC so will this work
> on this ULTRA10 machine?
Works on this one.

> -  The application which I want to port uses C/C++, Informix7.1, DataView (for
> GUI features). This application is originally built on HP-UX 10.20. So is
> Debian a good choice?
Sounds reasonable - it somewhat depends on how many features of PA-RISC
/ HP-UX it uses.  Where DataView has been ported, etc.

> - The application(Switch Surveillance system used for Telecom Network
> Management)  has major control through the GUI features, so will Debian be the
> right disrto to use?
Debian has both Gnome and KDE avaliable.  For this sort of thing I
wouldn't have said there was much to choose form between distros.

> - Are there any porting guidelines document available? If yes then where can I
> find them?
Make sure all the libraries you need have been ported.  If not then find
equivalents or write you own.  Compile it up and then fix whatever
breaks.  I could be worng but there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of
science behind porting.  Writing portable software does take some
knowledge btu porting an existing program isn't that conceptually
complex IMHO.

Sweet Dreams,
 - Martin

-- 
Martin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Seasons change, things come to pass"



Re: SPARC and CUPS

2003-06-03 Thread Mike M
On Tuesday 03 June 2003 09:04, Steve Pacenka wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 22:00, Mike M wrote:
> > Is anyone using CUPS to implement a print server on a SPARC?  Is it
> > working well? Any tips, tricks, or documents that can be recommended?  I
> > didn't find much on Google.
>
> Mike,
>
> I put a cheap OHCI USB 1.1 card in an Ultra10.  It serves up an HP
> inkjet nicely via CUPS from unstable.  No unusual config required.
> Stock 2.4.19 kernel.
>
> I failed to get the same printer working via parallel on this box, under
> Sarge earlier.
>
> Perhaps a USB-to-Parallel adaptor would work if the printer has no USB
> port.
>
> > Is a network printer easier to get working on a SPARC box than a parallel
> > port printer?

OR get a printer with USB.  The Epson Color 850 renders l-o-o-o-w quality 
digital images and ink cartridges are $$$ and they clog with long idle 
periods.
>
> Does this mean printing from the SPARC box to the network printer, i.e.
> the U5 is a client not a printer server?

I was wondering if the U5 as a print server was more often setup with a 
printer with a NIC.  I was thinking that's why I didn't Google much on SPARC 
+ parallel + CUPS.  I don't have a printer with a NIC - I was just curious 
since that's how it was done (I think) when I was employed at MegaCorp Inc.
>
> My first attempts to print from the U10 using sarge with CUPS were
> futile.  The printer was hanging off a borrowed HP jetdirect (ethernet
> print server) box.  Several other machines on the LAN could print to the
> printer but every job from the U10 went into oblivion.  It could be that
> I had my U10's CUPS configured wrong.  This failure is one reason why I
> tried to go direct parallel and finally USB with the printer right on
> the U10.  I use the U10 as a file, mail, audio, and HTTP server so it's
> powered on most of the time, it might as well be a printer server too.
>
> Just got the USB printing working (first attempt) two days ago so I'm
> not sure how well this performs under load.

Working on 1st attempt is +10
Handling load is d/c in my operation
>
> -- good luck, SP

Good ideas. Thanks

-- 
Mike M.



Re: [debian-sparc] Which is best distro for Ultra 10

2003-06-03 Thread Amit Mehra
Thank you very much for your reply. I am new to Sun and systems and hence
these questions. In order to start my work on this I need to first find out
the Sun system configuration I am using. What I know is its a Sun Ultra10 (4
PCI, SPARC-IIi 300MHz and 256 RAM). Which I found after looking at the system
and then while scanning the messages file.

-  Debian Linux distro available on debian site is for SPARC so will this work
on this ULTRA10 machine?
-  The application which I want to port uses C/C++, Informix7.1, DataView (for
GUI features). This application is originally built on HP-UX 10.20. So is
Debian a good choice?
- The application(Switch Surveillance system used for Telecom Network
Management)  has major control through the GUI features, so will Debian be the
right disrto to use?
- Are there any porting guidelines document available? If yes then where can I
find them?

Thanks for the help.
Amit


Erwann Abalea wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Amit Mehra wrote:
>
> > Few questions to the linux users who have worked on Sun Ultra 10
>
> And others, too.
>
> > I have a Sun Ultra10 workstation(UltraSPARC-IIi 300MHz, 256 MB RAM) and
> > plan
> > to port a HPUX 10.20 based system on this machine using Linux. My
> > questions are:
> > 1. Is this possible?
>
> Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the thing you want to port.
>
> > 2.What Linux distro should I use?
>
> The one you like. But since you wrote this to debian-sparc, then maybe you
> already choosed the Debian project?
>
> > 3.Which is the best known Linux supported on Sun Ultra machines?
>
> I'd go for a Debian.
>
> > 4. Is Sun Ultra support available on the internet?
>
> What kind of support? Hardware? Software? Development?
>
> > 5. How far this Ultra system better then a Intel system?
>
> It produces more heat, the case is nicer and has a better internal
> arrangement (well, maybe not the Ultra5/10 ones, but the Ultra1/2
> definitely).
>
> You only have to define what 'better' means for you.
>
> --
> Erwann ABALEA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - RSA PGP Key ID: 0x2D0EABD5
> -
> Keyboard not connected, press  to continue.
begin:vcard 
n:Mehra;Amit 
tel;work:91-141-2770131-134   EXT. 129
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.compucomtech.com
org:Tekmark Compucom Global Solutions;Telecom
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Support Engineer
adr;quoted-printable:;;IT-14-15 EPIP=0D=0ASitapua Industrial Area;Jaipur;Rajasthan;;India
fn:Amit Mehra
end:vcard


Re: SPARC and CUPS

2003-06-03 Thread Steve Pacenka
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 22:00, Mike M wrote:
> Is anyone using CUPS to implement a print server on a SPARC?  Is it working 
> well? Any tips, tricks, or documents that can be recommended?  I didn't find 
> much on Google.

Mike,

I put a cheap OHCI USB 1.1 card in an Ultra10.  It serves up an HP
inkjet nicely via CUPS from unstable.  No unusual config required. 
Stock 2.4.19 kernel.

I failed to get the same printer working via parallel on this box, under
Sarge earlier.

Perhaps a USB-to-Parallel adaptor would work if the printer has no USB
port.

> Is a network printer easier to get working on a SPARC box than a parallel 
> port printer?

Does this mean printing from the SPARC box to the network printer, i.e.
the U5 is a client not a printer server?

My first attempts to print from the U10 using sarge with CUPS were
futile.  The printer was hanging off a borrowed HP jetdirect (ethernet
print server) box.  Several other machines on the LAN could print to the
printer but every job from the U10 went into oblivion.  It could be that
I had my U10's CUPS configured wrong.  This failure is one reason why I
tried to go direct parallel and finally USB with the printer right on
the U10.  I use the U10 as a file, mail, audio, and HTTP server so it's
powered on most of the time, it might as well be a printer server too.

Just got the USB printing working (first attempt) two days ago so I'm
not sure how well this performs under load.

-- good luck, SP



some problems + recommended kernel for ss20 smp hypersparc

2003-06-03 Thread Frank Gevaerts
Hi,

I'm currently running 2.2.20+raid patch on my quad 125MHz hypersparc
SS20. I do have one problem with it : it panics while (or just after)
cleaning /tmp and /var/run if I boot normally from serial console.
It works correctly when I boot with 'console=ttyS1,9600', but I get
no output on ttyS1, which is annoying (I can't see any kernel messages
if anything goes wrong). It is repeatable.
The problem is not the CPUs, because it also occured with 2x Supersparc
75MHz.

Is this a known problem that is solved in later kernels ? Do 2.4.x
kernels run correctly on smp sparc32 ? What is the best kernel to run on
this machine ?

Frank



Re: Re: woody doesn't support port forwarding??

2003-06-03 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello, Blake Meike,

i use this settings in my flat Kernel from Kernel.org (2.2.22, patched to 
2.2.25)
on my Sparc 20 mp (sun4m) and it still works including masquerading.
I'm not concerned that masquerading Kernel code is arch dependend,
but we can ask the Comunity.


=== At 2003-06-01, 16:32:00 you wrote: ===

>On Sunday, June 1, 2003, at 04:58  PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>> Just recompile a new kernel with the options you want enabled.
>> do a
>> #make menuconfig
>>  or
>> #make config
>>  and enable some Flags in /usr/src/yourlinuxversiondir/.config like
>> IG_IP_MASQUERADE=y
>>
>
>Hey Rolf,
>   Do you have any evidence that this will work?  I can't imagine any 
>reason, other that that it doesn't work, that it would be on by default 
>for Intel, but off for Sparc
>
>Blake Meike
>
>.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


Best regards.
rolf
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
2003-06-03