Re: Creation of Sparc (32-bit) port.
On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 17:41 -0400, Clint Adams wrote: On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 12:39:16AM +0100, Martin wrote: As far as I know nothing has happened for precisely the same reason that sparc32 had to be dropped - there isn't anyone to work on the kernel. Without that then a separate port isn't going to get too far, but if there was some one / some people who were willing to work on it, there wouldn't need to be a separate port... Actually, there would be unless you add additional CPU emulation to Linux. Sorry - I don't follow. Presumably you are making reference to emulating the few instructions that are in SPARC V9 but not in SPARC V8. In my opinion that's a fairly minor issue. Last I looked the sparc binaries were being built for V8 and the libraries in which it would make an appreciable difference have V9 versions available. Essentially /if/ there was someone who was willing to handle kernel development for sparc32, things could (more or less) continue as they have been. At least, that's my impression. Chris is suggesting the only viable option. I don't think so, see above. The one port / two kernel approach has been working well, an extra port seems unnecessary. Cheers, - Martin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creation of Sparc (32-bit) port.
On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 23:22 +0100, Chris Andrew wrote: All, It seems that people are very keen to see 32 bit support die. I wouldn't have said that. When it was first announced that a new maintainer for the 32 bit kernel was needed, or failing that sparc32 support would have to be dropped, there were lots of people who said they felt sad by the prospect of loosing support. Don't interpret silence as active hostility, perhaps no one knows. Who do I have to contact to get a separate 32 bit sparc port set-up? As suggested before, we can give the new port 6 months, and see what happens? At the moment, 32 bit future is not looking good, at least let's go out trying! Why not just start? As long as the main userland pacakges are still being built for V8 rather than V9 you can use them so all you need to do is produce the few sparc32 specific packages (i.e. the kernel). Simply set up a Debian repository ( http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto ) and start creating packages. Then post the URL to the list and get people to test them out. Once you've got a set of packages that increase the functionality of the sparc32 port I would have thought that getting people to test and to help debug would be much easier and once you have users acquiring a name and space on official Debian servers shouldn't be difficult. Just go for it. Cheers, - Martin PS FWIW, I haven't used sparc32 in quite a while but I would be sad to see it go, as I posted when the topic first came up, but as I am not in a position to contribute any time to maintaining it, I don't feel I can blame the porters for not wishing to spend their free time doing so. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sparc (32) kernel development.
On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 22:36 +0100, Chris Andrew wrote: Hi, all. If I was interested in contributing to maintaining the kernel for sparc (32), where would be the best place to go, to get involved? Any good mailing lists for kernel newbies, specific to sparc (32)? [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ultralinux.org/lists.html is the main SPARC kernel mailing list, you probably also want to keep an eye on what's going on on the LKML [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kernel.org/ although it is fairly high traffic and you may want to read a summary instead: http://www.kernel-traffic.org/ http://lwn.net/Kernel/ http://www.kerneltrap.org/ there is also a dedicated kernel newbies list / site: http://kernelnewbies.org/ (also see http://kernelnewbies.org/KernelBooks for some of the books available) http://www.sparc.org/ has the architecture specifications, which may be of use. http://lxr.linux.no/source/ Is the output of LXR, which I find a very approachable interface to browsing kernel code, although I know some prefer cscope(1). Beyond that I think it's a case of finding a bug, fixing it and repeating. Personally I find the best way of learning a new piece of software is to pick a task and start hacking. HTH and good luck. Cheers, - Martin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creation of Sparc (32-bit) port.
Chris Andrew a écrit : All, It seems that people are very keen to see 32 bit support die. Who do I have to contact to get a separate 32 bit sparc port set-up? As suggested before, we can give the new port 6 months, and see what happens? At the moment, 32 bit future is not looking good, at least let's go out trying! This has already been said a dozen of time, but it looks like some people do not understand. Let's try a last time. Creating a 32-bit sparc repository won't help. We already know that the 32-bit sparc userland, is working correctly (apart for a dozen of packages, but that's fixable), as the *current* Debian sparc port has a *32-bit userland*. The problem is that the 32-bit sparc kernel is not maintained and starts to not work correctly. There are huge differences in the privileged mode of sparc v8 and sparc v9, on the instructions, but mainly on the other parts of the CPU, like the MMU, SMP support or exception handling. That's why you can't use a 32-bit kernel on a 64-bit sparc, whereas most other 32-/64-bit architectures support that. -- .''`. Aurelien Jarno | GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73 : :' : Debian developer | Electrical Engineer `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `-people.debian.org/~aurel32 | www.aurel32.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creation of Sparc (32-bit) port.
Hello Chris, Am 2007-08-20 22:40:11, schrieb Chris Andrew: Andy, Thanks for your reply. It is because of this situation that I am trying to get people to think about the separate port. All distro' are held back by one thing, and that is kernel development. The last thing I want to see is everyone with perfectly good hardware, having to move to *BSD. Thanks for your comment. Chris. - END OF REPLIED MESSAGE - Now since last week I have gotten a bunch of SS10/SS20 and like to see they working with debian (the SS are running more stable then ANY i386 I know, expecialy if the environement temperature increase dramaticaly like in North-Africa or Near-East) I run a SS20 as FileServer with fiveteen 36 GByte drives (Raid) attached. Even if I am programmer and already have coded a Kernel-Module for some Dallas/Maxim/Philips µChips, I have no clue about Kernel-Hacking, which mean, I can not help you, except Testing... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Sparc as SBC?
Hello SPARC Geeks, I have tested several different Systems, but it seems, that ANY i386, amd64, ia64 and ARM based Computers are not working realy stable, if the environement temperature increase dramaticaly. I mean temperatures of arround 50° in North-Africa and Near-East. I run since some time a bunch of SS10 in Marocco and Palestine and they are working without any problems... Now since last week I have gotten a new bunch of SS10/SS20 and will prepare them with Debian... Now I like to know, whether you know, IF there are SBC'S using SPARC CPU's and running ROCKSOLID! Please note, that I have some servers which must run in unattend-mode and maybe for years. I like to see such SBC's with the power of an U5/U10. Greetings Michelle Konzack -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Creation of Sparc (32-bit) port.
Hi, This has already been said a dozen of time, but it looks like some people do not understand. Let's try a last time. Creating a 32-bit sparc repository won't help. We already know that the 32-bit sparc userland, is working correctly (apart for a dozen of packages, but that's fixable), as the *current* Debian sparc port has a *32-bit userland*. As long as sparc userland gets build for v8, yes. Sooner or later, it will get switched over to v9. The problem is that the 32-bit sparc kernel is not maintained and starts to not work correctly. There are huge differences in the privileged mode of sparc v8 and sparc v9, on the instructions, but mainly on the other parts of the CPU, like the MMU, SMP support or exception handling. That's why you can't use a 32-bit kernel on a 64-bit sparc, whereas most other 32-/64-bit architectures support that. It may be not formally maintained, but there are patches being sent to Dave Miller and to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at a promising rate lately, HTH, Uli -- Dipl. Inf. Ulrich Teichert|e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stormweg 24 |listening to: Channel 13 Is Haunted (Hex Dispensers) 24539 Neumuenster, Germany|Is It Good Or Is It Bad? (Opération S) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
