Re: Installation manual updates -- still open
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Frans Pop wrote: 3.5.1 mentions the 1GB magic boundary -- silo will sometimes refuse to boot the kernel, if it is physically located beyond the 1GB from the start of the disk. I believe, however that this applies only to sparc32 machines, is that correct? Anyone know this? Early Sparc32 machines assume an early disk VTOC limitation. The root filesystem must be on the first slice and no slice should exceed 2Gb. This is an OBP issue. The only cure is to put the root (including /boot) filesystem on the first slice and limit its size to 1024Mb. AFAIK this only affects Sun4C machines which may not work with 2.6 kernels anyway. 5.1.4: How relevant is Sun NVRAM FAQ linked from this section for us? Any comments? Most older machines will have expired NVRAM batteries which should be fixed using this FAQ before attempting to install an operating system. Probably the most frequent problem with older machines. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation manual updates -- still open
On Sunday 31 December 2006 11:41, Chris Newport wrote: On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Frans Pop wrote: 3.5.1 mentions the 1GB magic boundary -- silo will sometimes refuse to boot the kernel, if it is physically located beyond the 1GB from the start of the disk. I believe, however that this applies only to sparc32 machines, is that correct? Early Sparc32 machines assume an early disk VTOC limitation. The root filesystem must be on the first slice and no slice should exceed 2Gb. This is an OBP issue. The only cure is to put the root (including /boot) filesystem on the first slice and limit its size to 1024Mb. AFAIK this only affects Sun4C machines which may not work with 2.6 kernels anyway. That means that the two sentences that cover that issue can be deleted. 5.1.4: How relevant is Sun NVRAM FAQ linked from this section for us? Most older machines will have expired NVRAM batteries which should be fixed using this FAQ before attempting to install an operating system. Probably the most frequent problem with older machines. OK. Let's leave that in then. Thanks for the info Chris. Cheers, FJP pgpF5BUx4sVZF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installation manual updates -- done
Hi Jurij, Thanks a lot for taking the time to go through the whole manual. I've gone through the issues and fixed a number of them; quite a few had already been fixed by changes since your review. There are also a few issues in this mail that are not yet fixed, but that could be fixed really easily if I can get the correct info or a second opinion. I'll follow up with issues that are still open in a separate mail. Cheers, FJP On Tuesday 03 October 2006 06:41, Jurij Smakov wrote: Table in section 2.1.1 should list only sun4m, sun4u and sun4v as supported sparc flavours. Done. Sections 2.1.3 and 2.1.4 are, in my opinion, redundant, and can be safely dropped. Information about supported graphics options and SMP support is included in the corrected version of the 2.1.2 chapter. Done based on your patch. In section 2.2.2: CD-ROM based installation is supported for some architectures - this statement is overly generic and redundant. May be removed? Not sure. It kind of covers the fact that the statement be not be true for the arch for which the manual is being read. We could remove it if we had a supports-cd condition, which we currently don't. Chapter 2.2.6 contains the list of supported SCSI devices. Does this list only includes the drivers included in initrd? Probably needs to be updated. It probably makes more sense to just replace it with a generic statement that says all SCSI devices supported by the kernel are supported, and maybe list any SUN specific devices (as I've done for networking in current version on alioth [1]). Can you suggest something quickly? Also, in section 2.4.2 Fake or Virtual Parity RAM there is a sentence f you want complete information on SPARC RAM issues, and what is the best RAM to buy, see the PC Hardware FAQ, linking to the PC Hardware FAQ. I very much doubt that this FAQ contains any information on SPARC RAM. Already removed. In chapter 2.5 the requirement of at least 32MB of RAM is listed. I think that should be bumped to 64MB (or someone should really confirm that install with 32 megs is possible). Will test that tomorrow. 32 may still work actually. I'm not sure if I tested that for Sparc when I last did my lowmem tests. List of the supported network hardware in section 2.6 - needs to be updated. Done, or at least changed. Could you check if any Sparc specific info is missing? Or maybe that should just be dropped? Chapter 3.4 lists recommended minimum system requirements, and no desktop option mentions 24MB. That does not agree with section 2.5 and I really doubt that you can install with 24MB. Anyone volunteers to check? See comment above. Inconsistency well spotted, will update. Somewhere around here the bug in parted (probably) should be mentioned, which leads to misdetection of disk sizes, if the machine has a disk label created by Solaris. Recreating the disk label with Debian will *not* resolved it, the only way to work around it so far is to dd the first few kilobytes of the affected drive with zeros. Bug 384653, for example. Anybody can try and reproduce it and provide debugging information? Mentioned now in: http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.sparc/ch06s03.html#di-partition Links to Sun Openboot Reference in 3.6.2 does not work anymore, needs to be updated. Google gave me this link; updated. Is that correct? http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/805-4436 There is a stray dot at the start of the line In older revisions... in 3.6.2. Fixed. Not sure what to do with section 3.6.3, pretty confident that this information is irrelevant for sparc. Cleaned out old cruft. The para is now no longer printed for Sparc. 4.4.4/4.4.5: default package providing tftp server is tftpd. Default directory from which the images are served is /srv/tftp, needs to be updated. Section was partially updated recently and better explains how to check for location used. For tftpd-hpa (which is recommended), the default is /var/lib/tftpboot. What do you use? 4.4.5.1: A bit more explanation about how image names are constructed? On my system the requested file name is logged in /var/log/daemon.log, for example: Sep 28 19:16:25 debian tftpd[3620]: tftpd: trying to get file: C0A8016E.SUN4M Sep 28 19:16:25 debian tftpd[3620]: tftpd: serving file from /srv/tftp For me it is 0A134205. I think this is adequately explained I've added a suggestion to check the log. Also, 'boot net' or 'boot net-tpe' has always worked for me, is mentioned syntax 'boot net my-sparc.image' is still used? 'boot net' works for me too. However, this para only suggests how to _force_ the image name, not what the regular command is. I have added this in the new text. What does 'boot net-tpe' different from 'boot net'? 5.1.1: Drop information relevant for older OpenBoot revisions. 5.1.2: Ditto. Both done. Also, in my experience booting from CD-ROM on sun4m simply does not work (it would boot, but when it comes to mounting
Re: Installation manual updates -- still open
OK. Here is the list of issues that are still open. Some help from the community with some of these would be much appreciated, Cheers, FJP On Tuesday 03 October 2006 06:41, Jurij Smakov wrote: Chapter 2.4 - Purchasing Hardware Specifically for GNU/Linux. This is probably not useful. Agree, but I don't feel like adding an architecture condition now. Section 3.3.1.2 links to Linux for SPARC Processors FAQ, which was last updated in 2003. Is it still useful? Any newer sources of information? Well, quite a lot of HW is from around that time or older. If anyone knows a more current source, that would be welcome. Section 3.3.2 mentions BIOS setup screens of your computer. Can we replace it with something about PROM, which would be more relevant? Yes, that would definitely be worthwhile. Are there many differences between subarches or is OpenProm basically the same for all Suns? It would be good to list the archives of debian-sparc list as a source of information, perhaps with a specific query for the search engine (like 'foo bar site:lists.debian.org inurl:debian-sparc). Would be good in general. There already is at least one reference to the list now though (for subscription, not the archives). 3.5.1 mentions the 1GB magic boundary -- silo will sometimes refuse to boot the kernel, if it is physically located beyond the 1GB from the start of the disk. I believe, however that this applies only to sparc32 machines, is that correct? Anyone know this? 3.5.1 also mentions that silo can boot from romfs, I don't think it's true. Or this? 3.6.2 talks about the need to set different environment variables, depending on the OpenBoot version. Probably worth to mention the 'show .version' command to display this version. Also, I believe that neither of machines we support is still using OpenBoot 1.x, so we can just remove instructions for these versions. It also mentions 'eeprom' command on Solaris, this command is available in Debian too, as a part of sparc-utils package. 4.4.1: check that .enet-addr command really returns the MAC address of the network card. Also it should be verified somehow that *all* commands still work on newer Solaris versions (anybody with a working Solaris system?) Both skipped for now. 5.1.3: Note about broken firmware for Ultra 10 - is it relevant anymore? No idea. Guess it could be for someone who gets an old box with very old firmware from the scrapyard and tries Debian on it... Anyway, the references are still valid so I've left it in. 5.1.4: How relevant is Sun NVRAM FAQ linked from this section for us? Any comments? 5.2: What is the command to set the console to selected framebuffer (given that more than one is available?). Will console=/dev/fb0 work? Last sentence should mention that the serial devices designators ttya and ttyb are valid in PROM only. Hmm. If that could work for the dual card issue... I doubt that console=/dev/fb0 would do it, but you never know. C.5.1: check for accuracy. AFAICT it is correct, but an extra check couldn't hurt. pgpKSbVaIg06f.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installation manual updates
Hi, I have now looked through the complete installation manual for sparc, and compiled the following list of the topics which require corrections. If you can answer any of the questions asked there, can perform the particular tests, or just would like to comment, please do so. Current version of the installation manual which I used is available at http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.sparc/ Table in section 2.1.1 should list only sun4m, sun4u and sun4v as supported sparc flavours. Sections 2.1.3 and 2.1.4 are, in my opinion, redundant, and can be safely dropped. Information about supported graphics options and SMP support is included in the corrected version of the 2.1.2 chapter. In section 2.2.2: CD-ROM based installation is supported for some architectures - this statement is overly generic and redundant. May be removed? Chapter 2.2.6 contains the list of supported SCSI devices. Does this list only includes the drivers included in initrd? Probably needs to be updated. Chapter 2.4 - Purchasing Hardware Specifically for GNU/Linux. This is probably not useful. Also, in section 2.4.2 Fake or Virtual Parity RAM there is a sentence f you want complete information on SPARC RAM issues, and what is the best RAM to buy, see the PC Hardware FAQ, linking to the PC Hardware FAQ. I very much doubt that this FAQ contains any information on SPARC RAM. In chapter 2.5 the requirement of at least 32MB of RAM is listed. I think that should be bumped to 64MB (or someone should really confirm that install with 32 megs is possible). List of the supported network hardware in section 2.6 - needs to be updated. Section 3.3.1.2 links to Linux for SPARC Processors FAQ, which was last updated in 2003. Is it still useful? Any newer sources of information? Section 3.3.2 mentions BIOS setup screens of your computer. Can we replace it with something about PROM, which would be more relevant? It would be good to list the archives of debian-sparc list as a source of information, perhaps with a specific query for the search engine (like 'foo bar site:lists.debian.org inurl:debian-sparc). Chapter 3.4 lists recommended minimum system requirements, and no desktop option mentions 24MB. That does not agree with section 2.5 and I really doubt that you can install with 24MB. Anyone volunteers to check? 3.5.1 mentions the 1GB magic boundary -- silo will sometimes refuse to boot the kernel, if it is physically located beyond the 1GB from the start of the disk. I believe, however that this applies only to sparc32 machines, is that correct? 3.5.1 also mentions that silo can boot from romfs, I don't think it's true. Somewhere around here the bug in parted (probably) should be mentioned, which leads to misdetection of disk sizes, if the machine has a disk label created by Solaris. Recreating the disk label with Debian will *not* resolved it, the only way to work around it so far is to dd the first few kilobytes of the affected drive with zeros. Bug 384653, for example. Anybody can try and reproduce it and provide debugging information? Links to Sun Openboot Reference in 3.6.2 does not work anymore, needs to be updated. There is a stray dot at the start of the line In older revisions... in 3.6.2. 3.6.2 talks about the need to set different environment variables, depending on the OpenBoot version. Probably worth to mention the 'show .version' command to display this version. Also, I believe that neither of machines we support is still using OpenBoot 1.x, so we can just remove instructions for these versions. It also mentions 'eeprom' command on Solaris, this command is available in Debian too, as a part of sparc-utils package. Not sure what to do with section 3.6.3, pretty confident that this information is irrelevant for sparc. 4.4.1: check that .enet-addr command really returns the MAC address of the network card. Also it should be verified somehow that *all* commands still work on newer Solaris versions (anybody with a working Solaris system?) 4.4.4/4.4.5: default package providing tftp server is tftpd. Default directory from which the images are served is /srv/tftp, needs to be updated. 4.4.5.1: A bit more explanation about how image names are constructed? On my system the requested file name is logged in /var/log/daemon.log, for example: Sep 28 19:16:25 debian tftpd[3620]: tftpd: trying to get file: C0A8016E.SUN4M Sep 28 19:16:25 debian tftpd[3620]: tftpd: serving file from /srv/tftp Also, 'boot net' or 'boot net-tpe' has always worked for me, is mentioned syntax 'boot net my-sparc.image' is still used? 5.1.1: Drop information relevant for older OpenBoot revisions. 5.1.2: Ditto. Also, in my experience booting from CD-ROM on sun4m simply does not work (it would boot, but when it comes to mounting the CD-ROM, any attempt to read the CD aborts with an error). Hendrik originally reported it in 382990. 5.1.3: Drop sun4c information. 5.1.3: Note about broken firmware for Ultra 10 - is it relevant anymore? Where
Re: Installation manual updates
Am Sonntag 24 September 2006 06:28 schrieb Jurij Smakov: The first chapter I've updated is about the supported Sparc hardware. You can find the draft (not yet committed) at http://www.wooyd.org/debian/manual/sparc-hardware.txt You can add PermediaII based PCI graphics boards (X driver: glint). When I had access to an U60, such one was in a PCI slot. HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation manual updates
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 07:49:45PM +0100, Chris Andrew wrote: Jurij, I may be interested in proof reading, if that helps. Great. Current version of the installation manual is always available at http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.sparc/ It is getting rebuild on demand, when stuff gets committed. I'm only looking at sparc-specific pieces so far, but if you find inconsistencies in other areas, i'm sure that d-i people will appreciate a bug report. Best regards, -- Jurij Smakov[EMAIL PROTECTED] Key: http://www.wooyd.org/pgpkey/ KeyID: C99E03CC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Installation manual updates
Hi, During Sarge release we did not find the time to properly update sparc installation manual, so by now it's horribly outdated. I have started working on it, if someone wants to join the effort, that would be very much appreciated. I plan to update sparc-specific chapters one by one and post them (or links to them) in this thread for review and discussion. If you would like to edit something too, the source of the manual in XML format is available for anonymous checkout from d-i svn at: svn://svn.debian.org/svn/d-i/trunk/manual Please let me know about it, so that we don't duplicate the effort. Even if you are not editing anything, you can help by proof-reading the text and offering additions and corrections. The first chapter I've updated is about the supported Sparc hardware. You can find the draft (not yet committed) at http://www.wooyd.org/debian/manual/sparc-hardware.txt Thanks, -- Jurij Smakov[EMAIL PROTECTED] Key: http://www.wooyd.org/pgpkey/ KeyID: C99E03CC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation manual updates
Jurij,I may be interested in proof reading, if that helps.Thanks,Chris.On 24/09/06, Jurij Smakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi,During Sarge release we did not find the time to properly update sparc installation manual, so by now it's horribly outdated. I have started working onit, if someone wants to join the effort, that would be very much appreciated. Iplan to update sparc-specific chapters one by one and post them (or links to them) in this thread for review and discussion. If you would like to edit something too,the source of the manual in XML format is available for anonymous checkout fromd-i svn at:svn://svn.debian.org/svn/d-i/trunk/manual Please let me know about it, so that we don't duplicate the effort. Even if youare not editing anything, you can help by proof-reading the text and offeringadditions and corrections.The first chapter I've updated is about the supported Sparc hardware. You can find the draft (not yet committed) athttp://www.wooyd.org/debian/manual/sparc-hardware.txtThanks,--Jurij Smakov [EMAIL PROTECTED]Key: http://www.wooyd.org/pgpkey/ KeyID: C99E03CC--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation manual updates
On Sunday 24 September 2006 06:28, Jurij Smakov wrote: The first chapter I've updated is about the supported Sparc hardware. You can find the draft (not yet committed) at http://www.wooyd.org/debian/manual/sparc-hardware.txt Also worth mentioning here may be that Sparc systems generally use relatively high refresh rates that may not be supported by all monitors (especially older VGA ones). Another option to get video correct when the system has two graphics cards is to explicitly turn one off, for example: append=video=atyfb:off Note that it may be better to save this info for the troubleshooting section: http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.sparc/ch05s03.html Cheers, FJP pgp2bPPqVtEZh.pgp Description: PGP signature
