Re: Linux Standard Base

[Greg Madden]

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Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 05 November 2003 09:33 pm, Paul E Condon wrote:
> I've been talking to other Linux users in my area (Colorado, USA)
> about their problems with Red Hat dropping their user,
> non-enterprise, distribution. I suggest Debian. I say its really
> great. But I'm told "But it doesn't comply with 'Linux Standard Base'
> ".
>
> So what is Linux Standard Base? And who does comply with it? And is
> this important to Debian? No flames please. If it is something that
> was started by Red Hat, it should hardly matter to those left behind
> in a business model shift.
>
> Curious,
>
> --
> Paul E Condon
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Google will tell it better than I can. It is a open standard by the 
Linux community. Standarizes what will be included in a distro and 
where it will go. This would make working on multiple Linux systems 
easier, imo. The /opt directory is an example of what the LSB requires 
and what has traditionally not been present in Debian. That said I read 
that Xandros would help Debian get certified. Suse Redhat are, I don't 
know about other distros but its not a bad thing. 

Ask those folks whether or not they have read the spec :)
- -- 
Greg Madden
Debian GNU/Linux
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Linux Standard Base

[Paul E Condon]

I've been talking to other Linux users in my area (Colorado, USA)
about their problems with Red Hat dropping their user, non-enterprise,
distribution. I suggest Debian. I say its really great. But I'm told
"But it doesn't comply with 'Linux Standard Base' ".

So what is Linux Standard Base? And who does comply with it? And is
this important to Debian? No flames please. If it is something that
was started by Red Hat, it should hardly matter to those left behind
in a business model shift.

Curious,

-- 
Paul E Condon   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Exim4 - current spam setup

[moseley]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:39:15PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:

> > 3) Any opinions on using a sender callout feature?  Will good mail get 
> > blocked?
> 
> Yes, almost definitely.  Not all sites support this.

Really?  The callout just checks to see if a bounce ( sender <> ) can be 
sent.  There's sites that do not accept bounces?

So maybe change this:

  deny !acl = acl_whitelist_local_deny
 !verify = sender/callout=20s,defer_ok

to something like this?

  warn  message = X-Callout: failed callout
!verify = sender/callout=20s,defer_ok


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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Kent West]

Mark Healey wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:45:18 -0600, Kent West wrote:

Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
latest stable one, right?
Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
.tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?

Ah, sorry. In that case, go get the .deb from here:
  http://packages.debian.org/unstable/base/kernel-image-2.4-k7.html
(Of course you'll want to get the right "flavor" of kernel for your CPU;
this one's for AMD Athlons and similar. Start here:
http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages, and search for "kernel-image-2.4".)

Exactly what is a kernel-image?



A kernel-image is a pre-compiled kernel; it's the base, the core, of 
Debian GNU/Linux (and other Linux-based operating systems).

This is in contrast to a kernel source tarball (a .tar.bz2, as you 
mention above), which must be configured and compiled. The source is 
what the programmers write. Then they (or you) compile it into a binary 
image.

Installing a kernel-image is usually much easier than "rolling your 
own". Of course, compiling your own kernel has its advantages, such as 
being customized to your hardware rather than being more generic, etc.

--
Kent


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NTP packages (was: setting hardware clock from NIST)

[moseley]

Can someone summarize the different ntp packages?  

For example what to run on a server vs. on an internal NAT'ed
workstation.  

Or what is best for a dialup ADSL connection vs. full-time connection. 

Do all packages provied a daemon?


I'm using both chrony and ntp on various machines, and it seems as if 
they both provide ntp network service (via netstat and lsof), but seems 
like I can run this

   nptdate -d 

but this fails

   ntpdate -d 

But I'm not sure why one works and not the other.

Also, what uses the "time" and "daytime" services provided via inetd?

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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Tom]

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 02:02:26PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> Linux people are running around saying 'this corporation's good, and
> that one is bad', when as far as I am concerned, corporations don't have
> personalities,-their lifeblood is profit. Period. Fullstop.
> If anybody thinks that corporate involvement with Linux has got anything
> to do with anything but a reduction in overhead,-nice stuff if you can
> afford to smoke it.

It seems to me the biggest risk is if the IHVs say "fuck it" and driver 
support drives up.  The second risk is that the "linux is cool" factor 
is all fucked up by these sheenanigans.  I know the Debian Developers 
say they don't care if anybody uses it but them, but still.

Then again, I don't want it to get *too* popular.  I started collecting 
mp3s off of usenet in '97, and it wasn't until everybody and their 
12-year old brother started doing it that it became "an issue."  I like 
my technologies medium-sized, a certain barrier is useful.
 
> H.P., slandered as it has been, appears to have been the only corporate
> body that has exhibited any real long term commitment, so far.

I have to say I was a Carley basher (she seemed California-phoney to me, 
that was probably me projecting my own hangups), but she's delivered the 
goods and made a buck.  She earned my respect.


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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Mark Healey]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:45:18 -0600, Kent West wrote:

>Mark Healey wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:00:11 -0600, Kent West wrote:
>>
>>
Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
latest stable one, right?

Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
.tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?

I did find a HOWTO but it is pretty redhat centric and assumes that
one has X running.  My X doesn't work, I'm sure I'll be posting about
that later.


>>># apt-cache search kernel-image-2.4
>>>
>>> . . .
>>> . . .
>>>
>>># apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7
>>>
>>>
>>
>>That would be nice if I had networking which I don't which is why I'm
>>trying to build a new kernel in the first place.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Ah, sorry. In that case, go get the .deb from here:
>http://packages.debian.org/unstable/base/kernel-image-2.4-k7.html
>using another machine that has networking. Drop the .deb file into a
>convenient location on your Debian box and run "dpkg -i
>kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7
>"
>(Of course you'll want to get the right "flavor" of kernel for your CPU;
>this one's for AMD Athlons and similar. Start here:
>http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages, and search for "kernel-image-2.4".)

Exactly what is a kernel-image?

Mark Healey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Giving debian a chance.


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Re: Help!

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 01:48:03 -
"Dan Huddart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I know you guys don't want to hear this and I apologise but:
>  
> I have never heard of this list or anything about it, yet somehow I've
> been subscribed and I can't get off. I've sent the usual unsubscribe
> email and mailed the list master, all with no success. Please help me
> get off!!!
>  
> Sorry for the spam.

Stick with it!
Some kind person is trying to save you.
Now, the first thing we have to do is stop that thing you are employing
as a mail client from polluting the internet any more than it has done
already, and to do that we need to stop that piece of filth under it
from taking up any space on what is potentially a good hard drive.

Do a Google search on Debian.org and you will find screeds of
information that will assist you in the direction of actually enjoying
life, rather than feeling this overwhelming therapeutic desire to smash
your monitor through the wall.
If you want to leave a mailing list, Debian will actually allow you to
do it.
Once you have installed Debian, come back here and talk to us. We like
people that have good operating systems.
Regards,

David. 
> 



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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:58:05 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:27:32PM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> > Mr. RH CEO tastes sour grapes because IBM dropped US$50M into Novell
> > 
> > effectively choosing SuSE's dance card over the RH's.  Mr. RH CEO
> > peed into the OSS well. He should have kept his mouth shut. Then
> > again he might be positioning RH for sale to M$.
> 
> I thought RH and IBM were tight; RH was essentially IBM's Linux
> support department (not literally, just sort of).
> 
Not good business to keep all your eggs in one basket though.
Also, these guys are good at long term strategy.
Novell, along with Cisco and the U.S. Govt., have a major interest in
the development of 'Abilene', the support network for Internet2.
Employing open source to create a closed network. SuSE have just landed
the Linux contract for the entire German Govt., I.B.M. picking up the
deal on hardware supply and training. I.B.M.s' latest move has been a
$50 million investment in Novell. All very cosy.

I.B.M., along with Microsoft, has an interest in the Royal Bank of
Canada, the institution that supplied SCO with its' bankroll.
I'm sitting back wondering what's going to come out of it all.

Linux people are running around saying 'this corporation's good, and
that one is bad', when as far as I am concerned, corporations don't have
personalities,-their lifeblood is profit. Period. Fullstop.
If anybody thinks that corporate involvement with Linux has got anything
to do with anything but a reduction in overhead,-nice stuff if you can
afford to smoke it.

H.P., slandered as it has been, appears to have been the only corporate
body that has exhibited any real long term commitment, so far.
Regards,

David.
 


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Re: woody/sarge on Barton MoBo? kt600 and/or which nvidia

[Kent West]

Hanasaki JiJi wrote:
What motherboards have people had success/failures with for woody and 
sarge and Bartons with a 400fsb?

Which mobo chipsets have you had good/bad experiences with?
amd?
nvidia?
via? kt600?
And with which kernels?  I guess the woody distribution kernel would 
need to run ok because that is the public ISO available?

Thank you.


I was just tonight trying to help a friend install Debian on his mobo 
with an nforce (nvidia) ethernet chipset. Suffice it to say that I will 
_never_ purchase an nvidia-based mobo, unless something major comes 
along to change my mind.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[Roberto Sanchez]

Ron Johnson wrote:
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 20:20, Roberto Sanchez wrote:

John Hasler wrote:

The first place to look for time servers is your ISP.  ISPs often run
time service on their nameservers.  Try them.
I tried my ISP first.  When I sent tech support an email asking
about the NTP servers, they sent me instructions on how to setup
news access.  I had to explicitly spell network time protocol.
Yup, they are very clueful.


Try this:
traceroute ntp.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that my ISP has one at ntp.cox.net.

A simple ping of ntp. showed the machine as being there, and it
just a CNAME for the nameserver.  I guess first line tech support
really is clueless :-)
-Roberto


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Re: User looses access to DISPLAY

[Kent West]

Haines Brown wrote:
Finally bringing to conclusion my first debian (3.0r.1) install, I
ran aptitude update. When I subsequently rebooted, user cannot start
x, but root can.
I reconfigured XF86Config-4 by running dpgk-reconfigure , using the
simple configuration, which worked before, and kept the same
values. But that did not help. There are a couple warnings in the
XF85config log (a set of fonts does not exist; can't open APM), but no
errors.  

When root runs # echo $DISPLAY, it returns: :0.0.
But when user runs $ echo $DISPLAY, there is nothing.
I'm currently logged in as root, and in an xterm su to user to handle
my mail. I find that user can start emacs, but not other x
clients. The error returned when I try is that there is no display
name and no DISPLAY variable. 

I don't think I did anything that would affect authentification.  

Haines Brown




Create a new user, and see if that user has the same problems.

Also check
enjae[westk]:/home/westk> sudo cat /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config
Password:
allowed_users=console
nice_value=-10
If the "allowed_users" is not "console", either change it, or better 
yet, run "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-common", which I believe will give 
you the option to change who can run the server.

If I log in as a normal user into a text console (no X11) and run "echo 
$DISPLAY", I too get nothing displayed. I don't think the lack of having 
a display env-var set is a problem.

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Re: Help!

[Paul Johnson]

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On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 01:48:03AM -, Dan Huddart wrote:
> I know you guys don't want to hear this and I apologise but:
>  
> I have never heard of this list or anything about it, yet somehow I've been
> subscribed and I can't get off. I've sent the usual unsubscribe email and
> mailed the list master, all with no success. Please help me get off!!!

Could you send the full headers of the messages you're getting on the
list?  That'll help us help you find out where it's coming from, this
list is mirrored and redistributed by quite a number of sites.

- -- 
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: :'  :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Re: Debian Testing - enabling cleartext passwords in uw-imap (next up - enable SSL)

[Ron Johnson]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 23:12, BruceG wrote:
> Okay, have been having fun (well, sort of, kind of). I decided to
> upgrade from Stable to Testing and broke my pop and imap e-mail. So I
> figured what the heck - it's only been up a little while with just me
> using it, so do a new install. Installed Stable base (no tasksel, no
> deselect - just a bare-bones system). Upgraded to Testing - then added
> mail server support. Still no good! 
> 
> I finally figured out some of it. During the installation I sai yes to
> allowing clear text passwords. That worked for pop mail. It didn't work
> for imap.
> 
> I googled, and found this info:
> create an /etc/c-client.cf
> 
> Enter the following into it:
> I accept the risk
>  
> set disable-plaintext nil
> 
> And it worked. So POP and IMAP are working again. Next on the list is to
> figure out how to enable SSL and actually get it to work.


Can I convince you to dump UW and go with courier-imap?

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jefferson, LA USA

"You ask us the same question every day, and we give you the same
answer every day. Someday, we hope that you will believe us..."
U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to a reporter


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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Kent West]

Mark Healey wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:00:11 -0600, Kent West wrote:
 

Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
latest stable one, right?
Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
.tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?
I did find a HOWTO but it is pretty redhat centric and assumes that
one has X running.  My X doesn't work, I'm sure I'll be posting about
that later.
 

# apt-cache search kernel-image-2.4

. . .
. . .
# apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7
   

That would be nice if I had networking which I don't which is why I'm
trying to build a new kernel in the first place.
 

Ah, sorry. In that case, go get the .deb from here:
   http://packages.debian.org/unstable/base/kernel-image-2.4-k7.html
using another machine that has networking. Drop the .deb file into a 
convenient location on your Debian box and run "dpkg -i 
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7 
" 
(Of course you'll want to get the right "flavor" of kernel for your CPU; 
this one's for AMD Athlons and similar. Start here: 
http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages, and search for "kernel-image-2.4".)

--
Kent


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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Ron Johnson]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 20:55, David Millet wrote:
> all I have to say is that I personally want linux to rule the desktop, 
> simply because I will stand to make alot of money when big companies 
> start picking it up.  a lot of us will, in fact.
> 
> i'm extremely confident that it will rule the desktop market, because of 
> the speed at which the desktops have improved, which i have been lucky 
> to observe during the past year i've been doing the linux thing.  i've 
> seen major improvements, unlike how windows upgrades their operating 
> systems these days.  i use winXP at work and haven't seen yet too much 
> of an improvement from win2000.  i agree with that guy from red hat. 
> give kde, gnome, etc a few more years to mature and it will be 
> night-night time for the M$ monopoly.

Not until Broderbund releases a Calendar Creator that works with
Linux.  Ditto for Reader Rabbit, Math Blaster, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jefferson, LA USA

"(Women are) like compilers. They take simple statements and
make them into big productions."
Pitr Dubovitch


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Re: Exim4 - current spam setup

[Paul Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 02:30:12PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 2) What RBL entries (dnslists) are you using in Exim4's ACL list?

bl.spamcop.net, and a couple of ones from rfc-ignorant.org to weed out
some of the fishy sources.

> 3) Any opinions on using a sender callout feature?  Will good mail get 
> blocked?

Yes, almost definitely.  Not all sites support this.

> 4) Any comments or suggestions on updating a live woody (exim3) system
> to exim4?  exim4-config conflicts with exim which makes it a tiny bit
> more work to get the config setup (I'll create an exim4.conf file from
> another machine before upgrading to hopefully limit downtime).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bill Moseley
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
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Debian Testing - enabling cleartext passwords in uw-imap (next up - enable SSL)

[BruceG]

Okay, have been having fun (well, sort of, kind of). I decided to
upgrade from Stable to Testing and broke my pop and imap e-mail. So I
figured what the heck - it's only been up a little while with just me
using it, so do a new install. Installed Stable base (no tasksel, no
deselect - just a bare-bones system). Upgraded to Testing - then added
mail server support. Still no good! 

I finally figured out some of it. During the installation I sai yes to
allowing clear text passwords. That worked for pop mail. It didn't work
for imap.

I googled, and found this info:
create an /etc/c-client.cf

Enter the following into it:
I accept the risk
 
set disable-plaintext nil

And it worked. So POP and IMAP are working again. Next on the list is to
figure out how to enable SSL and actually get it to work.



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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[Ron Johnson]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 20:20, Roberto Sanchez wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
> > The first place to look for time servers is your ISP.  ISPs often run
> > time service on their nameservers.  Try them.
> 
> I tried my ISP first.  When I sent tech support an email asking
> about the NTP servers, they sent me instructions on how to setup
> news access.  I had to explicitly spell network time protocol.
> Yup, they are very clueful.

Try this:
traceroute ntp.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that my ISP has one at ntp.cox.net.

P.S. - "mtr" is much better than traceroute.
$ apt-cache show mtr
Package: mtr
Priority: extra
Section: net
Installed-Size: 152
Maintainer: Robert Woodcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Architecture: i386
Version: 0.54-1
Replaces: mtr-tiny
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.1-1), libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0), libgtk1.2 (>=
1.2.10-4), libncurses5 (>= 5.3.20021109-1), xlibs (>> 4.1.0)
Conflicts: suidmanager (<< 0.50), mtr-tiny
Filename: pool/main/m/mtr/mtr_0.54-1_i386.deb
Size: 42098
MD5sum: 76bf4c099a4fd45aaa27d13711ad1f41
Description: Full screen ncurses and X11 traceroute tool
 mtr combines the functionality of the 'traceroute' and 'ping' programs
 in a single network diagnostic tool.
 .
 As mtr starts, it investigates the network connection between the host
 mtr runs on and a user-specified destination host.  After it
 determines the address of each network hop between the machines,
 it sends a sequence ICMP ECHO requests to each one to determine the
 quality of the link to each machine.  As it does this, it prints
 running statistics about each machine.



-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jefferson, LA USA

"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." or
something like that
Ben Franklin, maybe


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Re: new user question about stable branch

[ScruLoose]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:05:57PM -0800, Chris Ochs wrote:
> 
> Is the stable branch frozen in place except for security/bug fixes from the
> time it was released?  I installed woody and then upgraded to kernel 2.4.18,
> which made me think what other packages are update from time to time.

In terms of "Official" Debian, yes. Frozen except for those fixes.
Lots of people use backports of things they just _must_ have newer
versions of, though.
The usual place to look for backports is apt-get.org
For example, I'm working on setting up a woody mail server at home,
using backports of exim4 and spamassassin 2.55...

> Also, I'm assuming that running woody is the best bet for mission critical
> stuff? 

Definitely.
Testing seems to be strangely unpopular, and unstable is nowhere near as
unstable as the name would indicate, but things do occasionally break.
Woody boasts archaic versions of some packages, but when the developers
call it 'stable', they mean it.

> ... (god I hate rpm's),

Oh, I hear you.
Apt is ... so good ... Especially compared to RPMs.

Cheers!
-- 
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>   -ScruLoose-   |I care less and less what people think.<
>  Please do not  | - Ani DiFranco<
> reply off-list. |   <
`-'


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Re: fully removing a user?

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 at 04:31 GMT, Karsten M. Self penned:
> 
> 
> It's the residual files which are th epirmary reason *not* to blindly
> delete a user's /etc/passwd entry.  Given a disabled account, the user
> *cannot* log into the system.  However the system administrator *can*
> still identify files owned by that user, and move, change ownership,
> or delete these as necessary.
> 

Sure, but I don't want these users to exist forever ... if only to clean
up my passwd file 

-- 
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Re: Tracking packages without having them installed

[Karsten M. Self]

on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:07:35PM +1100, Rob Weir ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 11:16:19AM -0800, Tom said
> > After I do an apt-get upgrade on my desktop, I keep the DEBs I 
> > downloaded to use on other machines or when I start over.
> > 
> > I find I must have everything I am interested keeping up-to-date on 
> > *any* machine must be installed on the desktop (an example is 
> > pcmcia-source and pcmcia-cs).
> > 
> > Is there a way to make apt-get automatically downloaded newest versions 
> > of packages not installed?
> 
> No.  But have you looked at apt-proxy?  Point all your machines at it,
> then it will only download each .deb once, and save it.  Every machine
> after the first gets it at local network speed.

...to four decimal places.


Concur:  apt-proxy is what you want for this.  Using it here, six
systems behind a 56k dialup.

Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
  Backgrounder on the Caldera/SCO vs. IBM and Linux dispute.
  http://sco.iwethey.org/


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Re: OT - Documenting systems

[Karsten M. Self]

on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:56:15PM -0500, Paul M Foster ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:47:00PM +, Clive Menzies wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> > By stealth, I seem to be developing a sysadmin personality, what with the
> > expanding network here and increasingly getting involved in networking
> > on behalf of clients.  I've tried various approaches to recording
> > details of individual components and the network but keeping them up to
> > date is difficult.
> > 
> > Google mainly threw up people's cv's describing their strengths in
> > documenting systems or commercial tools.
> > 
> > Can anyone offer any guidance in terms of sources of information or
> > debian tools to document networked systems.
> > 
> 
> There are at least four programs (scripts, really) that will document
> hardware, interrupts, network configuration, etc. Some are and some
> aren't shipped with Debian. Each varies in its thoroughness and
> utility.  All must be run on the machine you wish a report on. That
> means they won't run on Windows boxes. The programs are: collect,
> hinv, si, and survey. I developed my own combination of these called
> syssum, which I can email you if you like.

Another is my system-info script:

http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/LinuxSystemInfoScript


nmap and other network monitoring ustilities can also be of use.

You'll probably also want a hardware inventory system.  Which is where
you keep the information you collect.

http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=inventory§ion=projects&x=9&y=6

Peace.

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Re: fully removing a user?

[Karsten M. Self]

on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:22:39AM -0700, Monique Y. Herman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> So, I've noticed that my home machine has some accounts lying around
> that are certainly unused -- I set up a user so that a friend could use
> my disk space, that sort of thing.
> 
> Got me thinking ... okay, you use 'userdel -r foo', and it gets rid of
> the passwd entry, home directory, and mailspool ... 
> 
> It's also occured to me that the user may have cron jobs installed.
> What other things might a user have that aren't automagically handled?

"Deleting" a system user is frequently *not* what you want to do.

Your best bet is to make the user inactive.

passwd -l

...prevents logins on the account.

Change the user shell to /bin/false to prevent the user from running a
shell.


Checking under /var/spool will show crontabs and at jobs.  Not sure if
there's a way to disable these, or if the 'passwd -l' trick does that.


Finally, the user is likely to have files on the system -- certainly
under /home (or $HOME, if not under /home), and possibly elsewhere.


It's the residual files which are th epirmary reason *not* to blindly
delete a user's /etc/passwd entry.  Given a disabled account, the user
*cannot* log into the system.  However the system administrator *can*
still identify files owned by that user, and move, change ownership, or
delete these as necessary.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
"Yes," said Marvin. "Why stop now just when I'm hating it?"
-- HHGTG


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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 at 01:31 GMT, ScruLoose penned:
> 
> --i0/AhcQY5QxfSsSZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> quoted-printable
> 
> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 05:27:11PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
>>=20 See my post in another thread.  Different people have different
>>visions for the future of linux.  Not all of us care whether or not it
>>becomes a desktop leader.  Not all of us want it to be easy enough to
>>use that our moms are comfortable -- not if that means sacrificing
>>security, stability, or our beloved command line and text
>>configuration files.
> 
> That's a very good point.  I'd like to add that Linux can already be
> easy enough to _use_ to make Mom comfortable (plunk your average
> end-user down with pre-installed KDE3, OO.o and Mozilla; I expect
> she'll be perfectly happy) , it's just not that easy to _administer_.

100% agreed.  I've often thought that, if I lived anywhere near my
parents, I would install some variant of linux on their machines and
help them when necessary.

On the other hand, I think I'd have a tough time explaining to my dad
why the software that came with his camera/scanner/plug n play rutebega
won't work on his system.

On the third hand, my fiance installed debian on one of his father's
machines to act as a samba server, and his dad can't stop singing the
praises of that machine.  He uses it exclusively as an internal
fileserver, but as such, it's been flawless.

> I wonder if there's a future of full-time freelance sysadmins keeping
> whole neighborhoods worth of end-users' home systems up-to-date
> remotely.  Like plumbers, but for your PC...=20 (well, you can't
> un-clog a toilet over ssh, but you see what I mean)

After talking to my father about the tech support he's received at a
local shop, it occured to me that there is a market for what I jokingly
called "geriatric computer support."  My father isn't *that* old, at
all, but he has certain expectations about personal interactions.  He
gets annoyed at strangers addressing him by his first name, just as an
example.  Sure, part of tech support is knowing your stuff, but another
part is building rapport with your customers.  I wonder if you could
build a business on "old-fashioned values; high-tech know-how."

(No, you can't have that slogan!  It's mine, dammit, all mine!)


-- 
monique
PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!


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What could be changing keymaps behind my back?

[Jorge Santos]

Something is changing keymaps behind my back, seemingly randomly, from
having:



xmodmap:  up to 2 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):

shift   Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
lockCaps_Lock (0x42)
control Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x6d)
mod1Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_R (0x71)
mod2Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3  
mod4Super_L (0x73),  Super_R (0x74)
mod5Scroll_Lock (0x4e)



I go to:



xmodmap:  up to 3 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):
 
shift   Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
lockCaps_Lock (0x42)
control Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x6d)
mod1Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_L (0xe9)
mod2Mode_switch (0x71),  Mode_switch (0x74)
mod3
mod4Select (0x73),  Mode_switch (0x74)
mod5Scroll_Lock (0x4e)


Note how the modifiers get quite changed, Super_L turns into Select,
and Super_R turns into Mode_switch.

This is getting to be quite annoying.

And I hav no idea what is causing this wierd behaviour.  Any ideas
about what it could be doing it or how I can find out?


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new user question about stable branch

[Chris Ochs]

Is the stable branch frozen in place except for security/bug fixes from the
time it was released?  I installed woody and then upgraded to kernel 2.4.18,
which made me think what other packages are update from time to time.

Also, I'm assuming that running woody is the best bet for mission critical
stuff?  We are primarily a freebsd house, but run a few redhat servers for
our sap databases.  Been meaning to dump redhat for a while and now that
their update support is stopping soon it's time to make the switch.

By the way, coming from a bsd background debian really seems to be the
easiest transition.  apt-get is probably more similar to the bsd ports then
rpm is (god I hate rpm's), and unlike redhat or suse it installs most of
what you need for a standard server setup in a conservative, intelligent
way.  Nice work guys.

Chris


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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Tom]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:27:32PM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> Mr. RH CEO tastes sour grapes because IBM dropped US$50M into Novell 
> effectively choosing SuSE's dance card over the RH's.  Mr. RH CEO peed into 
> the OSS well. He should have kept his mouth shut. Then again he might be 
> positioning RH for sale to M$.

I thought RH and IBM were tight; RH was essentially IBM's Linux support 
department (not literally, just sort of).


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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[John Hasler]

Don't _ask_ your ISP about timeservers: their first line support is just
about guaranteed to be clueless.  Just stick the nameserver IP numbers in
the Chrony or Ntp config file and try them.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: woody/sarge on Barton MoBo? kt600 and/or which nvidia

[Roberto Sanchez]

Hanasaki JiJi wrote:
What motherboards have people had success/failures with for woody and 
sarge and Bartons with a 400fsb?

Which mobo chipsets have you had good/bad experiences with?
amd?
nvidia?
via? kt600?
And with which kernels?  I guess the woody distribution kernel would 
need to run ok because that is the public ISO available?

Thank you.


I have an nVidia nForce2 mobo (onboard audio and ethernet, no onboard
video).  The ethernet requires a proprietary nVidia driver (or I could
have just purchased another card).
The only significant hitch was the fact that I got an ATi video card
and the implementation of the AGPGART on nForce chipsets was problematic
until kernel 2.4.22 came out.
HTH,

-Roberto


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Re: Looking for a good digital image manager

[Karsten M. Self]

on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:14:51PM -0500, Trey Sizemore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I'm looking for something like PixiePlus for categorizing and editing
> digital photos.  PixiePlus is pretty good, but I'm looking at
> alternatives.  I've also tried GQview.
> 
> So what are the favorites out there?

Editing:  The GIMP.

Managing / manipulating:  ImageMagick (a tool suite).

Creating galleries for online viewing:  Gallery.

GUI image management tools:  Konqueror (as file manager), Nautilus.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
WAIT TILL I GET GOING! Where was I?
Australia.
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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Mike Mueller]

On Wednesday 05 November 2003 19:27, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> Not all of us care whether or not it becomes a
> desktop leader.  Not all of us want it to be easy enough to use that our
> moms are comfortable -- not if that means sacrificing security,
> stability, or our beloved command line and text configuration files.

Second that.

Mr. RH CEO tastes sour grapes because IBM dropped US$50M into Novell 
effectively choosing SuSE's dance card over the RH's.  Mr. RH CEO peed into 
the OSS well. He should have kept his mouth shut. Then again he might be 
positioning RH for sale to M$.

And now for some hand-wringing about Debian in the enterprise:
http://www.enterprise-linux-it.com/perl/story/22602.html
-- 
Mike Mueller
324881 (08/20/2003)
Make clockwise circles with your right foot. 
Now use your right hand to draw the number "6" in the air.


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Re: virtual terminal not working compaq armada

[Alexander Schmehl]

[ sending mail to the list, since it might be worth to be kept in the
archive ]

Good morning,

* navaja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [031105 16:07]:

> thanks, changing to vga=791 worked... what does it do?

You can run the Text-Console in different graphic modes. That is called
"framebuffer mode". With vga=791 you tell the framebuffer, that you
would like to run your Text-Consoles with a 1024x768 Resolution and an
colour depth of 16 Bit per Pixel. You may have noticed, that you can
display more than the usual 80 characters and 25 lines on the text
console.


Yours sincerely,
  Alexander


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woody/sarge on Barton MoBo? kt600 and/or which nvidia

[Hanasaki JiJi]

What motherboards have people had success/failures with for woody and 
sarge and Bartons with a 400fsb?

Which mobo chipsets have you had good/bad experiences with?
amd?
nvidia?
via? kt600?
And with which kernels?  I guess the woody distribution kernel would 
need to run ok because that is the public ISO available?

Thank you.

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Re: Partitioning

[Karsten M. Self]

on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:30:37AM +0100, Andreas Janssen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Chema (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> 
> > But there is also another view that I have not seen mentioned: in
> > serious servers, you can also "freeze" the most static parts of your
> > system, namely /bin, /sbin and /usr.  This means mounting them
> > read-only.
> 
> That sounds like you want to put /bin and /sbin on it's own partition.
> How exactly are you going to do that, if even the mount command itself
> is in /bin? By keeping local copies in the /bin directory on the /
> partition? Or do you mount / ro (which is also somehow problematic
> because some files there are regularly written to, for example mtab)?

There's been a periodic discussion of this issue in d-d.

Note specifically:  bootable CDROM distributions solve this problem by a
number of means.  One is to use a RAM filesystem for root, another is to
use an immutable root but symlink /etc and parts of /dev elsewhere.

The problem is addressable, but not entirely cleanly.  Working
implementations exist.

Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
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Re: Looking for a good digital image manager

[Jacob S.]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:14:51 -0500
Trey Sizemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm looking for something like PixiePlus for categorizing and editing
> digital photos.  PixiePlus is pretty good, but I'm looking at
> alternatives.  I've also tried GQview.
> 
> So what are the favorites out there?

Editing photos? I use GIMP for everything from resizing to cutting
people out of one picture and putting them in another. :-)

HTH,
Jacob

- 
GnuPG Key: 1024D/16377135

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Re: "locale not supported"?

[Marc Wilson]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 06:51:57PM -0500, Joel Konkle-Parker wrote:
> I keep getting warnings along the lines of "Gdk-warning: local not
> supported by C library"  I'm using en-US.utf8.
> Is there something I can change to make this go away?

Well, since the name of the locale is "en_US.UTF8", you could always try
spelling it properly.

rei $ locale -a | grep US 
en_US
en_US.iso88591
en_US.iso885915
en_US.utf8

-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | away.


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Looking for a good digital image manager

[Trey Sizemore]

I'm looking for something like PixiePlus for categorizing and editing
digital photos.  PixiePlus is pretty good, but I'm looking at
alternatives.  I've also tried GQview.

So what are the favorites out there?

Thanks.

-- 
Cheers,
Trey
---

The beauty of the soul shines out when a man bears with
composure one heavy mischance after another, not because he
does not feel them, but because he is a man of high and heroic temper.
- Aristotle


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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[Kirk Strauser]

At 2003-11-06T02:18:09Z, Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I already consulted that list.  My home is in Orlando, FL :-)
>
> I only got an @yahoo.es account...

Gotcha.  I saw the ".es" and, well, you can guess.  But you still shouldn't
use ntp2.usno.navy.mil; every little shareware time utility syncs against
those poor machines by default.
-- 
Kirk Strauser
In Googlis non est, ergo non est.


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Re: OT - Documenting systems

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:47:00PM +, Clive Menzies wrote:

> Hi
> 
> By stealth, I seem to be developing a sysadmin personality, what with the
> expanding network here and increasingly getting involved in networking
> on behalf of clients.  I've tried various approaches to recording
> details of individual components and the network but keeping them up to
> date is difficult.
> 
> Google mainly threw up people's cv's describing their strengths in
> documenting systems or commercial tools.
> 
> Can anyone offer any guidance in terms of sources of information or
> debian tools to document networked systems.
> 

There are at least four programs (scripts, really) that will document 
hardware, interrupts, network configuration, etc. Some are and some 
aren't shipped with Debian. Each varies in its thoroughness and utility. 
All must be run on the machine you wish a report on. That means they 
won't run on Windows boxes. The programs are: collect, hinv, si, and 
survey. I developed my own combination of these called syssum, which I 
can email you if you like.

HTH,

Paul


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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[David Millet]

all I have to say is that I personally want linux to rule the desktop, 
simply because I will stand to make alot of money when big companies 
start picking it up.  a lot of us will, in fact.

i'm extremely confident that it will rule the desktop market, because of 
the speed at which the desktops have improved, which i have been lucky 
to observe during the past year i've been doing the linux thing.  i've 
seen major improvements, unlike how windows upgrades their operating 
systems these days.  i use winXP at work and haven't seen yet too much 
of an improvement from win2000.  i agree with that guy from red hat. 
give kde, gnome, etc a few more years to mature and it will be 
night-night time for the M$ monopoly.

just my $0.02

david

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Re: source.list won't stat (problem gone)

[Pigeon]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 05:43:15PM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> 
> > From: Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:23:16AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> 
> > > I suspect as much. I find that I have two mouse sections in my X
> > > configuration, and their Protocol is "PS/2", while my Microsoft mouse
> > > is an IntelliMouse, which has its own "IntelliMuse"
> > > protocol.=20
> > 
> > "Intellimouse" protocol is for serial-port mice. These are dead rare
> > nowadays. For a PS/2 Intellimouse you need Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2",
> > and to get the scroll wheel working, Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5".
> 
> Thanks. That's a big help, especially if I fail to get my optical
> mouse working.
> 
> > Try mdetect.
> 
> I looked around, but couldn't get much information from
> googling. Apparently mdetect is usually used with some kind of front
> end, but I've no idea what such a front end might be. Does it require
> this other program, or can you just run it by itself to probe a mouse? 

I've only ever used it once... just ran it from the command line and
it told me what the mouse was. No front end required.

-- 
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Re: [OT] SCO's crack legal team

[Paul William]

On Thu, 2003-11-06 at 11:52, Greg Norris wrote:
> I thought this might provide some much-needed amusement... My wife has
> put together a picture of SCO's crack legal team, which pretty much
> explains their entire strategy.  Feel free to share! ;-)
> 
>http://home.kc.rr.com/snidely/cornscolio.gif

LOL. Nice. 

-- 

 .''`. Paul William
: :'  :Debian admin and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system


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Re: 2.6 kernel on sarge?

[Sridhar M.A.]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 04:55:05PM -0800, Bill Wohler wrote:
   > Has anyone running the sarge (testing) distribution installed the 2.6.0
   > kernel yet? 
 
Am running 2.6.0-test9 on an AMD Athlon XP + ASUS Mo.Bo. with Nvidia
drivers for my display. Systems *appears* to run faster than on a
2.4.22. No prblems noticed so far except that I have not got round to
make my digicam work with it. Do not have time to sit and check :-)

   > On a laptop? 
   
Don't have one. 

   > Did it "just work" or did you have to do some
   > fiddling to get things right? How long did that take?
   >
Straight out of the box. No problems were there. Get the
module-init-tools for loading the modules. 

Regards,

-- 
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User looses access to DISPLAY

[Haines Brown]

Finally bringing to conclusion my first debian (3.0r.1) install, I
ran aptitude update. When I subsequently rebooted, user cannot start
x, but root can.

I reconfigured XF86Config-4 by running dpgk-reconfigure , using the
simple configuration, which worked before, and kept the same
values. But that did not help. There are a couple warnings in the
XF85config log (a set of fonts does not exist; can't open APM), but no
errors.  

When root runs # echo $DISPLAY, it returns: :0.0.
But when user runs $ echo $DISPLAY, there is nothing.

I'm currently logged in as root, and in an xterm su to user to handle
my mail. I find that user can start emacs, but not other x
clients. The error returned when I try is that there is no display
name and no DISPLAY variable. 

I don't think I did anything that would affect authentification.  

Haines Brown


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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[Roberto Sanchez]

John Hasler wrote:
The first place to look for time servers is your ISP.  ISPs often run
time service on their nameservers.  Try them.
I tried my ISP first.  When I sent tech support an email asking
about the NTP servers, they sent me instructions on how to setup
news access.  I had to explicitly spell network time protocol.
Yup, they are very clueful.
-Roberto


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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[Roberto Sanchez]

Kirk Strauser wrote:
At 2003-11-05T02:18:06Z, Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


I use the ntp and ntp-simple packages.  These are the public time servers
I use in /etc/ntp.conf:
server ntp2.usno.navy.mil
server ntp-1.vt.edu
server ntp-2.vt.edu


Don't do that.  Besides putting a load on the precious stratum-1 servers and
stratum-2 servers on the other side of the Big Pond, look at
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/clock2a.html to find some servers
closer to home.  The backbone will be happier and your clock will be more
accurate.
I already consulted that list.  My home is in Orlando, FL :-)

I only got an @yahoo.es account becuase they 6MB storage (versus 4MB for
regular @yahoo.com) and still offer free POP3 access (which costs money
for an @yahoo.com account).
-Roberto


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Help!

[Dan Huddart]

I know you guys don’t want to hear this and I apologise
but:

 

I have never heard of this list or anything about it,
yet somehow I’ve been subscribed and I can’t get off. I’ve
sent the usual unsubscribe email and mailed the list master, all with no
success. Please help me get off!!!

 

Sorry for the spam.

Re: GUI login screen.

[Paul Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 03:24:02PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> Please consider that the reason that Debian is set up with certain
> defaults is that -- brace yourself -- overwhelmingly, the debian users
> like it that way.  Debian users tend to prefer security to ease of use.
> Debian users tend to prefer command-line solutions to GUIs.  Debian
> users tend to want to understand their system, not just use it.

I've read in more than one computer magazine complimenting Debian with
the idea that Debian is the community successor to AT&T UNIX.  Whether
or not this is the case, I take it as a compliment.

- -- 
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: :'  :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Mark Healey]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:00:11 -0600, Kent West wrote:

>Mark Healey wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:47:46 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 06:35 GMT, Mark Healey penned:
>>>
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:52:38 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:


>Mame cab?  What is this beast?

An arcade style video game cabinet.  Mame is an emublator of old
arcade games.

http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm http://www.mame.net/
>>>
>>>That's what I thought you meant.  I'm still confused as to how it
>>>relates to Debian, but *shrug* I'm sure it makes sense to you =)
>>
>>
>> Gotta have a working PC inside, Debian is the distro I plan to use.
>>
>> With Redhat moving towards their Fedora scheme I figure that a move to
>> Debian is the best way to avoid any more surprises from another
>> comercial vendor.  I've also noticed that most distros that are built
>> upon another are built upon Debian, so it must be pretty good.
>>
>> Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
>> latest stable one, right?
>>
>> Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
>> .tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?
>>
>> I did find a HOWTO but it is pretty redhat centric and assumes that
>> one has X running.  My X doesn't work, I'm sure I'll be posting about
>> that later.
>
># apt-cache search kernel-image-2.4
>
>  . . .
>  . . .
>
># apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7

That would be nice if I had networking which I don't which is why I'm
trying to build a new kernel in the first place.

Mark Healey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Giving debian a chance.


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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Kenward Vaughan]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:44:20AM -0800, Tom wrote:
...
> I like Hondas Civics myself, closest thing to a solid-state automobile 
> you can by.  Buy it, it's fully functional without style, but damn if it 
> isn't headache-free :-)

Heh.  I'll sell you mine (nearly new).  Been a headache since day 5.

But I'll keep my Delor... er, Debian.

Kenward
-- 
In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be 
_teachers_ and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, 
because passing civilization along from one generation to the next 
ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone 
could have. - Lee Iacocca


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Re: i810_audio.o

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 04:11:56PM -0700, Jeffrey Barish wrote:
> ...  But when I try to insmod 
> i810_audio, I get the complaint
> 
> i810_audio.o: init_module: No such device
> Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, 
> including invalid IO or IRQ parameters

You can avoid many such dependency headaches by using depmod/modprobe
rather than insmod by itself. 

(I apologise if I have overlooked something here, preventing you from
doing such)
-- 
Jon Dowland
http://jon.dowland.name/


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Re: GUI login screen.

[Paul Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:19:30AM -0600, Kent West wrote:
> John Peter wrote:
> >I don't know what else you may require - it will hardly wash your car ...
> 
> That explains the condition of my vehicle! Well then, forget Debian. I'm 
> switching to Novell/SuSE.

Drive it Northwest style: Don't wash it until the grass growing in the
dirt starts affecting the gas mileage.  Bill Nye is the only person
I've seen that had a car demonstrating the result.

- -- 
 .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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+KMf9boSF8OnwaIOSo3zSfg=
=/1F5
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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[ScruLoose]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 05:27:11PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> 
> See my post in another thread.  Different people have different visions
> for the future of linux.  Not all of us care whether or not it becomes a
> desktop leader.  Not all of us want it to be easy enough to use that our
> moms are comfortable -- not if that means sacrificing security,
> stability, or our beloved command line and text configuration files.

That's a very good point.
I'd like to add that Linux can already be easy enough to _use_ to make
Mom comfortable (plunk your average end-user down with pre-installed
KDE3, OO.o and Mozilla; I expect she'll be perfectly happy) , it's just
not that easy to _administer_.

I wonder if there's a future of full-time freelance sysadmins keeping
whole neighborhoods worth of end-users' home systems up-to-date
remotely.  Like plumbers, but for your PC... 
(well, you can't un-clog a toilet over ssh, but you see what I mean)

Seems to me that if an end-user (like Mom, for example) wants an easy,
secure, stable experience with a Linux box, she needs someone (friend,
family, paid help) to do the sysadmin maintenance stuff for her.
Of course, if she wants an equally good experience with a Windows
machine, she needs the same 'someone' to format it, install a working
OS, and *then* do the sysadmin maintenance stuff.

We're all here because we know that Windows achieves "easy" at the
expense of being hopelessly insecure and often broken.  Maybe it's time
to start offering another choice to people who are fed up with Windows
but not ready to install/configure/admin a *nix machine.

Paying the occasional "sysadmin bill" might well come out to less than
what these people spend on the software itself now.

Cheers!
-- 
,-.
>   -ScruLoose-   |Now I realize that just getting through the day<
>  Please do not  | without killing someone can be an achievement.<
> reply off-list. |   - Jane (_Children_of_the_Mind_, Orson Scott Card)   <
`-'


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Voice dictation

[Bill Wohler]

Once upon a time, long, long, ago, I used ViaVoice from IBM to do
dictation. Pretty good stuff.

Earlier this year I replaced my system; today I tried to reinstall
ViaVoice from the CD I had originally received from IBM. No joy. It
depends on some shared libraries that are long gone.

Since IBM no longer supports it, I think I just need to forget about
ViaVoice.

Is anyone familiar with any other voice dictation programs for Linux?

-- 
Bill Wohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.newt.com/wohler/  GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
Maintainer of comp.mail.mh FAQ and MH-E. Vote Libertarian!
If you're passed on the right, you're in the wrong lane.


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file and directory permissions question...

[Eric Walstad]

Hi All,

I'm trying to set up some restrictions to a couple of directories and 
their files and just can't seem to get it right.  Here's what I'm 
trying to do:
/foo   - Only folks in the 'users' group can read, write and delete 
files/dirs.  
/bar   - Only folks in the 'admin' group can read, write and delete 
files/dirs.

For both:
New files/dirs are created as owner=the person that created it.  New 
files/dirs are created as group='users'|'admin', respectively.

User fred is in groups fred,user
User barney is in group barney
User betty is in groups betty,user,admin

I'd like Betty to be able to read/write in both foo and bar.
Barney is hosed, he cannot read or write in neither foo nor bar
I'd like Fred to be able to read/write only in foo.

I've tried logging in as betty and touching a new file in bar, but no 
luck (permission denied), even when 
drwxrwx--T   13 admin admin 4096 Nov 05 10:52 bar

Can someone enlighten me with a chmod command or two that'll make this 
happen?  Do I need to change the groups to which the users belong?

It probably doesn't matter, but I'm running Debain 'unstable'.

Many thanks in advance.

Eric.


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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[John Hasler]

The first place to look for time servers is your ISP.  ISPs often run
time service on their nameservers.  Try them.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin


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Re: which architechture

[Paul Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:52:20AM -0700, David Millet wrote:
> I'm new to the whole Debian thing, and fairly new to Linux in general.  
> I hated installing things via RPM, so I thought I'd give Debian a try.  
> But I don't know which isos to download and install for my AMD Duron 800 
> processor, do I download the alpha, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, 
> mipsel, powerpc, s390, or sparc isos?

i386.

Please send a new email when starting a thread, don't just reply to
another...decent mail readers thread by In-Followup-To header, which
is set when you reply, but not on a new email.  Thus, your message
gets lost as a reply to another thread, which people may be deleting
if they're not interested.

- -- 
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: :'  :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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=l3f3
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2.6 kernel on sarge?

[Bill Wohler]

Has anyone running the sarge (testing) distribution installed the 2.6.0
kernel yet? On a laptop? Did it "just work" or did you have to do some
fiddling to get things right? How long did that take?

-- 
Bill Wohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.newt.com/wohler/  GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
Maintainer of comp.mail.mh FAQ and MH-E. Vote Libertarian!
If you're passed on the right, you're in the wrong lane.


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Re: setting hardware clock from NIST

[Kirk Strauser]

At 2003-11-05T02:18:06Z, Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I use the ntp and ntp-simple packages.  These are the public time servers
> I use in /etc/ntp.conf:
>
> server ntp2.usno.navy.mil
> server ntp-1.vt.edu
> server ntp-2.vt.edu

Don't do that.  Besides putting a load on the precious stratum-1 servers and
stratum-2 servers on the other side of the Big Pond, look at
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/clock2a.html to find some servers
closer to home.  The backbone will be happier and your clock will be more
accurate.
-- 
Kirk Strauser
In Googlis non est, ergo non est.


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Re: using exim directly instead of smarthost

[ScruLoose]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 03:34:26PM +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 02:17:58AM +0100, Benedict Verheyen said
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> i have configured exim 4 and it runs fine. I use the smarthost option
> >> and thus send mails via my ISP. I was wondering if i could do the same
> >> by NOT using the smarthost option and use my exim4 to do this?
> >
> > Yup, it's easy. Just reconfigure exim4 ("dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config"
> > or so) and tell it to be a "Internet host" (or whatever it is) instead
> > of "Internet host with smarthost".
> >
> > However, be aware that some remote mail servers block mail from dynamic
> > and domestic ip addresses, and will refuse all mail coming from you.
> > Hotmail and Yahoo at least do this.
> 
> I have my own domain but i use the nameservers of the ISP where i
> registered the domain name. Then they forward this to the address
> i have with my cable ISP. 

So... as long as your domain registrar's nameservers are being kept
properly up-to-date with your (dynamic) IP address, you're all set for
receiving mail directly.

If they're forwarding mail to your _e-mail_ address at your ISP, that's
a totally unrelated issue.

> Anyway, i could use that domain name as the
> domain name from where my mail originates so that hotmail and yahoo
> accept mail from here.

Wrong.  These places (plus AOL I believe) will *not* accept mail from
you. They don't care about what your domain name or return address says.
When your server connects to theirs to deliver a message, they check
your IP against a big list. If it's on the list of known-to-be-dynamic
IP's, they just hang up on you. Because only spammers send mail from
their own server on a dynamic IP, I guess.

> But the problem would be if people want to reply to a mail sent
> from my domain: no mx records exist that point to my own machine.

This is not a problem.  As long as your machine is on-line and the
nameservers are pointing to you properly, incoming mail will be fine
with no mx records.
You only need mx records if you have a second (or more) machine set up
to accept mail on your behalf when your server is down.

If you don't have a secondary (and hence no MX records) then when you're
offline the sending server will retry for however long it's configured
for (I believe the RFC's say something about three days for this)

> Anyway, it seems to me that if one wants to seriously set up his
> own mailserver, that it's best to get a static ip.

Perhaps.  Although you can address the dynIP blacklist thing by having a
conditional rule to use your ISP's smarthost for a list of domains, and
keep that list up-to-date with those bastards who use the blacklist.

And for incoming mail, no mx records or anything, just don't turn the
machine off for stretches >= 3 days at a time.  ;-)

> I might be able to do mailforwarding via the ISP so that they
> intercept the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mails and forward this to me.

I don't think that would be relevant or necessary.

> But since i don't have a fixed ip, i would have to use the method
> you describe of having an intermittant service like dyndns or ddts.
> Then provider could forward mail to that domain name and these in turn
> to the ip i have at that time but with the danger of the periods of
> downtime when changing ip.

Well, I use dynDNS, and my "downtime when changing ip" is five minutes,
because that's how often I have ddclient check to see if my IP has
changed (and inform dynDNS if it has).

> Hmmm, i think i'll skip this setup until i ever own my own ip :)

That, of course, is entirely up to you.

Cheers!
-- 
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>   -ScruLoose-   |I do not agree with what you have to say,  <
>  Please do not  |   but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.  <
> reply off-list. |   - Voltaire  <
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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 at 00:01 GMT, Hoyt Bailey penned:
> 
> As ustall I will be politically incorrect but I think the following
> applys to this entire subject:
> 
> Ignore the past and you will fail Ignore the future and you have
> already failed.{Unknown}
> 
> I think RH ignored the future.  Will Debian?  Regards; Hoyt
> 

See my post in another thread.  Different people have different visions
for the future of linux.  Not all of us care whether or not it becomes a
desktop leader.  Not all of us want it to be easy enough to use that our
moms are comfortable -- not if that means sacrificing security,
stability, or our beloved command line and text configuration files.

-- 
monique
PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!


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Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:33
Subject: Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"


> On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 17:14 GMT, Wolfgang Pfeiffer penned:
> > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39117575,00.htm
> >
>
> This was on slashdot and people really freaked out about it.
>
> The guy is saying that RedHat is great for businesses, even for
> corporate user machines, but that he has trouble seeing his grandfather
> wanting to learn how to run linux.
>
> To some extent, I can't disagree with him.   My mom bought my dad a
> digital camera a couple of years ago.  Neither of them know a thing
> about computers, really, but amazingly enough, dad was able to get his
> pictures from the camera to his computer without my help.  On windows.
> I have trouble picturing (no pun intended) him doing the same on linux.
>
> -- 
> monique
> PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
> Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!
>
As ustall I will be politically incorrect but I think the following applys
to this entire subject:

Ignore the past and you will fail
Ignore the future and you have already failed.{Unknown}

I think RH ignored the future.  Will Debian?
Regards;
Hoyt



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[totally fixed] Re: Verizon DSL (pppoeconf, WinXp, netgear rt311 don't work)

[DvB]

It finally occurred to me to check the permissions on
/etc/resolv.conf and noticed that it's now a symlink
to /etc/ppp/resolv.conf Both the directory (/etc/ppp)
and the file (resolv.conf) were owned by root and had
permissions set so that only owner and group (also
root) could read them. After changing permissions, I
can now do DNS lookups as user, browse with lynx and,
I assume, browse with mozilla but won't find out until
I get home.

Stupid of me not to check that earlier. I think one of
the options I chose -- or failed to choose -- when I
was fooling around with pppoe-rp must've done that (it
had an option for "allow user access" or something
like that).


--- DvB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Once again, please CC me on all replies as I'm not
> subscribed to the list.
> 
> Verizon called me at around 10pm last night to tell
> me, as I had suspected, that the problem was with
> one
> of their routers and not with anything I was doing.
> 
> So, my router now gets an IP address and
> everything's
> fine and dandy as far as my router's concerned.
> However, I can only do DNS on my Debian box if I'm
> logged in as root and, even then, only
> nslookup/host/etc or lynx work but not mozilla.
> 
> If I try host as user, it tells me "Nameserver not
> running" and, if I run mozilla, netscape4 or opera,
> I
> have to type in IP addresses to be able to go
> anywhere, otherwise I get "foo.com not found"
> errors.
> 
> Somebody suggested adding PEERDNS=yes to
> /etc/sysconfig/ifconfig- but that doesn't
> appear to have worked.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> --- DvB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Please CC me on all replies since I'm not
> currently
> > subscribed to the list. I start talking about
> Debian
> > specifically around paragraph 7. You might
> consider
> > the rest to be slightly OT.
> > 
> > I just got Verizon DSL last week and have yet to
> > manage to get online. I was unsuccessful with my
> > roommate's WinXP laptop (possibly because
> Verizon's
> > install CD screwed it up. See
> >
>
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52756,00.html)
> > 
> > 
> > When trying to connect with my Netgear RT311
> router,
> > I
> > get the following after configuring section 4 and
> > running the network test:
> > 
> > Start dialing for node ...
> > ### Hit any key to continue.###
> > $$$ DIALING dev=6 ch=0..
> > $$$ OUTGOING-CALL phone(fefffe)
> > $$$ Dial no answer
> > 
> > I'll include my settings at the end of this
> message,
> > in case anybody has any experience with the RT311
> > and
> > Verizon DSL. I have a "straight through" cable
> > between
> > my computer and a hub, which is connected to the
> > router with a crossover cable (I can get an IP
> > address
> > from the router and telnet to it, so I know that
> > part
> > works). I have the router connected to the DSL
> modem
> > with the cable Verizon provided. I assume it's a
> > straight through.
> > 
> > I spent a whole morning talking to Verizon tech
> > support with the laptop and, when I called while
> > trying to get the router working, they informed me
> > that they only support Linksys routers and
> insisted
> > on
> > knowing which OS I was running, after which they,
> of
> > course, told me they "don't support Linux."(TM)
> > 
> > After this, I went to my office at school and
> > downloaded the Debian pppoe and pppoeconf packages
> > (3.3-1.1 and 0.9.10.6, respectively). After
> > installing
> > them, I ran pppoeconf as root and was told that it
> > found one device, eth0 (a 3Com 3c95x, I think),
> > which
> > was fine. It then proceeded to "scan" or something
> > of
> > the sort, resulting in the following error
> message:
> > 
> > "Sorry, I scanned 1 interface(s), but the Access  
>  
> >  
> >  Concentrator of your provider did not
> > respond. Please  check your network and modem
> > cables. Another reason   for the scan
> > failure may also be another running pppoe
> > process
> > which controls the modem."
> > 
> > I have no idea what other pppoe process might be
> > running. I doubt that there is any. Yes, I did
> > remember to plug the computer directly into the
> DSL
> > modem rather than the hub/router before trying
> this.
> > 
> > Here's my RT311 config that I said I would
> include:
> > 
> > Menu 1 - General Setup
> > 
> > System Name= myusername
> > Domain Name= verizon.net
> > Edit Dynamic DNS= No
> > 
> >  Menu 2 - WAN Setup
> > 
> >  MAC Address:
> >Assigned By= IP address
> > attached on LAN
> >IP Address= 192.168.0.2
> > 
> >  Menu 3.2 - TCP/IP and DHCP Ethernet Setup
> > 
> > DHCP= Server
> > Configuration:
> >   Client IP Pool Starting
> > Address=
> > 192.168.0.1
> >   Size of Client IP Pool= 32
> >   Primary DNS Server= 

Re: GUI login screen.

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:42
Subject: Re: GUI login screen.


> On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 11:57 GMT, Hoyt Bailey penned:
> >> >
> >>
> >> I think you *can* set things up such that root can log in from the
> >> gui.  It's just not set up that way in the *default* debian
> >> configuration.
> >>
> > So true.  A point made by others as well. However knowing that while a
> > good thing doesnt help me. What program supplies gui login?  Or maybe
> > what config file sets up the login screen? I dont like the idea that
> > debian builds that jail and I cant get out.  Hoyt
> > 
> 
> I try to avoid the gui login, so I'm not sure.  But I'm pretty sure I've
> seen references to it.
> 
> -- 
> monique
> PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
> Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!
> 
Thanks I think Kent West just gave me the information I need.
Hoyt


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recvfrom()... configure: error

[Sven Scherler]

Hi

I am trying to compile nmap 3.48 on a debian stable release. It's a base
system with minimal package installation (added gcc, make, libstdc). 
When I run .configure I get the following output:

 checking for getopt_long_only... yes
 checking for usleep... no
 checking if usleep needs custom prototype... not found  checking if
gethostname needs custom prototype... not found  checking for type of 6th
argument to recvfrom()... configure: error: Cannot find type for 6th
argument to recvfrom()

I coudn't find much on this issue. Thx 4 helping

Sven

PS: send me a copy since i am not subscribed to the list


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Re: GUI login screen.

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Kent West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:53
Subject: Re: GUI login screen.


> Hoyt Bailey wrote:
>
> > I am using gdm.  If jail is over the top then you cannot know how I
feel.
>
> This is probably what you want:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/oswg/oswg-nightly/gdm2/docs/C/gdm.html#AEN353
>
> Especially see:
>
> 2.2.2. Security Options
>
>  [security]
> AllowRoot
>
> AllowRoot=0
>
>  Graphical root logins are disallowed by default. Set this value to
> 1 to enable priviledged user logins.
>
>
> 2.2.5. Greeter Configuration
>
>  [greeter]
> . . .
> SystemMenu
>
> SystemMenu=0
>
>  Turns the Shutdown/Halt menu on/off.
>
Thank you sir that appears to be exactly what I need.
Hoyt



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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Kent West]

Mark Healey wrote:
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:47:46 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:


On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 06:35 GMT, Mark Healey penned:

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:52:38 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:


Mame cab?  What is this beast?
An arcade style video game cabinet.  Mame is an emublator of old
arcade games.
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm http://www.mame.net/
That's what I thought you meant.  I'm still confused as to how it
relates to Debian, but *shrug* I'm sure it makes sense to you =)


Gotta have a working PC inside, Debian is the distro I plan to use.

With Redhat moving towards their Fedora scheme I figure that a move to
Debian is the best way to avoid any more surprises from another
comercial vendor.  I've also noticed that most distros that are built
upon another are built upon Debian, so it must be pretty good.
Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
latest stable one, right?
Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
.tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?
I did find a HOWTO but it is pretty redhat centric and assumes that
one has X running.  My X doesn't work, I'm sure I'll be posting about
that later.
# apt-cache search kernel-image-2.4

 . . .

kernel-image-2.4.22-1-386 - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on 386.
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-586tsc - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on 
Pentium-Classic.
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-686 - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on 
PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/PIV.
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-686-smp - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on 
PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/PIV SMP.
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k6 - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on AMD 
K6/K6-II/K6-III.
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7 - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on AMD K7.
kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7-smp - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22 on 
AMD K7 SMP.
kernel-image-2.4.22-speakup - Linux kernel image for version 2.4.22-speakup
 . . .

# apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.22-1-k7

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Kent
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Re: i810_audio.o

[Joel Konkle-Parker]

Jeffrey Barish wrote:
To get sound out of my machine, I need three modules: sound.o, 
ac97_codec.o, and i810_audio.o.  I know this because I see all 3 running 
under Knoppix, and it produces sound.  With my own kernel, I come up 
with sound.o installed.  I must install ac97_codec.o next or I get 
complaints about unresolved symbols.  But when I try to insmod 
i810_audio, I get the complaint

i810_audio.o: init_module: No such device
Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, 
including invalid IO or IRQ parameters

What am I doing wrong?


I had this same problem. It ended up being a real pain: my device wasn't 
supported by that version if i810_audio, so I had to upgrade my kernel. 
Here's a test: look at the output of 'lspci' for your sound chip, and 
try to find its pci id.

Now look in //i810_audio.c, and in 
the first section it will have some 'define' statements with some pci 
ids. If yours isn't there, it's not supported. Try a new kernel.

--
Joel Konkle-Parker
Webmaster [Ballsome.com]
Phone [+1 662-518-1636]
E-mail[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: GUI login screen.

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Stephen Touset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Hoyt Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:06
Subject: Re: GUI login screen.


> Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Kent West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 22:25
> > Subject: Re: GUI login screen.

> >
> >>Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>- Original Message - 
> >>>From: "Roberto Sanchez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 08:41
> >>>Subject: Re: GUI login screen.
> In /etc/inittab, there's a line beginning with "ctrlaltdel", or
> something very similar. In Debian (atleast to my knowledge), it's bound
> to /sbin/reboot, but it seems like it's not in your situation. Simply
> put /sbin/reboot at the end of the line (erasing any command that's
> there, if there is one), and restart init.
>
>
>
Thanks that is good to know I'll keep it around Just In Case, somehow I
think there may be bigger problems here than I first thought.
Regards;
Hoyt



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Re: GUI login screen.

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Dr.-Ing. C. Hurschler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 09:24
Subject: Re: GUI login screen.


> Am Mittwoch, 5. November 2003 15:27 schrieb Hoyt Bailey:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "John Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 04:30
> > Subject: Re: GUI login screen.
> >
> > > Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> > > >- Original Message -
> > > >From: "Roberto Sanchez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 08:41
> > > >Subject: Re: GUI login screen.
> > > >
> > > >I do not dissagree on any point.  However it should be my choice.

> > > I have been reading this thread and I find all this very strange.
> > > I installed Debian base (network install) and then went to Sarge .
> > > Installed X, KDM and KDE and I have all that I used
> > > to have in other distros - I can do all that you mention and more !
> > > There may be ways not to have it like that but I have and didn't have
to
> > > configure anything!
> > > My login GUI even present you with clickcable icons (pictures) for you
> > > to select whatever
> > > user / root you want with a single click ( no need to write the actual
> > > name ).
> > > And for the really lasy and don't-care-about-login-stuff guys you can
> > > configure the GUI
> > > to do an auto-login!
> > > I don't know what else you may require - it will hardly wash your car
...
kw washed his car since I have.
> > That is exactly what I wanted to hear.  I dont doubt there is something
> > strange going on at all.  I do thank you for confirming what I expected
> > linux to be and as soon as I get my "real modem" maybe a sarge update
will
> > be in order.
> > Hoyt
>
> It has nothing to do with sarge, it works the way he described in woody
too.
> Try "dpkg-reconfigure kdm" if you haven't already.
>
> Chris
>
That is a comfort to know that Your system works like Linux should I must
confess that I dont understand the agenda of some.
Since I issued apt-get --purge remove kdm.  I suspect that wouldnt work will
the command be the same for xdm, or maybe it was another command anyway its
gone.
Regards:
Hoyt



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Re: fully removing a user?

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 at 00:31 GMT, David Jardine penned:
> 
> You can user deluser (configuration in /etc/deluser.conf) to remove
> the files owned by the user anywhere on the system.
> 

Ooh!  Nifty!  I had no idea it was configurable!

-- 
monique
PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!


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"locale not supported"?

[Joel Konkle-Parker]

I keep getting warnings along the lines of "Gdk-warning: local not 
supported by C library" when I install packages in gnome-terminal. I'm 
using en-US.utf8.

Is there something I can change to make this go away?

--
Joel Konkle-Parker
Webmaster [Ballsome.com]
Phone [+1 662-518-1636]
E-mail[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: i810_audio.o

[Roman Joost]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 04:11:56PM -0700, Jeffrey Barish wrote:
> To get sound out of my machine, I need three modules: sound.o, 
> ac97_codec.o, and i810_audio.o.  I know this because I see all 3 running 
> under Knoppix, and it produces sound.  With my own kernel, I come up 
> with sound.o installed.  I must install ac97_codec.o next or I get 
> complaints about unresolved symbols.  But when I try to insmod 
> i810_audio, I get the complaint
> 
> i810_audio.o: init_module: No such device
> Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, 
> including invalid IO or IRQ parameters
> 
> What am I doing wrong?

You're trying to install the oss modules, do you? I prefer the alsa
modules, which work perfectly on my IBM T40, which has the same chipset.

You should give them a try.

Greetings,
-- 
Roman Joost
www: http://www.romanofski.de
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Description: Digital signature

i810_audio.o

[Jeffrey Barish]

To get sound out of my machine, I need three modules: sound.o, 
ac97_codec.o, and i810_audio.o.  I know this because I see all 3 running 
under Knoppix, and it produces sound.  With my own kernel, I come up 
with sound.o installed.  I must install ac97_codec.o next or I get 
complaints about unresolved symbols.  But when I try to insmod 
i810_audio, I get the complaint

i810_audio.o: init_module: No such device
Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, 
including invalid IO or IRQ parameters

What am I doing wrong?

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Re: fully removing a user?

[David Jardine]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 11:49:32PM +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> > So, I've noticed that my home machine has some accounts lying around
> > that are certainly unused -- I set up a user so that a friend could
> > use my disk space, that sort of thing.
> >
> > Got me thinking ... okay, you use 'userdel -r foo', and it gets rid of
> > the passwd entry, home directory, and mailspool ...
> >
> > It's also occured to me that the user may have cron jobs installed.
> > What other things might a user have that aren't automagically handled?
> >
> > --
> > monique
> > PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
> > Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!
> 
> How about this command: find / -user user
> This would return all files owned by that user
> And if you want to search in all files for that user name:
> grep -inR user /
> 

You can user deluser (configuration in /etc/deluser.conf) to 
remove the files owned by the user anywhere on the system.

-- 
David Jardine

"Running Debian GNU/Linux and
loving every minute of it." -Sacher M.


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Re: hotplug problem

[Micha Feigin]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 05:31, Paul William wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I cant get hotplug to start. I am using a debian kernel.  Hot plug says
> it "can't synthesize input events - /proc/bus/input/devices missing"
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/paulb# cat /var/log/boot | grep hotplug
> Wed Nov  5 16:20:19 2003: Starting hotplug subsystem: input** can't
> synthesize input events - /proc/bus/input/devices missing
> Wed Nov  5 16:20:19 2003:  pci** can't synthesize pci hotplug events
> Wed Nov  5 16:20:30 2003: Starting hotplug subsystem: already
> started. process pending events.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/paulb# uname -a
> Linux paulscomputer 2.4.22-1-k7 #5 Sat Oct 4 14:11:12 EST 2003 i686
> GNU/Linux
> 

I don't know the settings for that kernel, could you send
/boot/config-2.4.22-1-k7 (it should be either that or something really
close).
Input for 2.4 kernels is mostly related to the usb input system (mouse,
keyboard and joystick). In 2.6 kernels it also includes the regular
keyboard and mouse iirc.
You also need hotplug to be enabled in you kernel for this to work (I
belive it is in stock kernels).
Other then the error message does hotplug work correctly or not?

> I am running debian unstable. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>  .''`. Paul William
> : :'  :Debian admin and user
> `. `'`
>   `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
> -- 
> 
>  .''`. Paul William
> : :'  :Debian admin and user
> `. `'`
>   `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
-- 
Micha Feigin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: fully removing a user?

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 22:49 GMT, Benedict Verheyen penned:
> 
> How about this command: find / -user user This would return all files
> owned by that user And if you want to search in all files for that
> user name: grep -inR user /
> 
> Regards, Benedict
> 
> 

Ah, good idea!  I was hoping someone had already packaged a solution,
but that will definitely work.


-- 
monique
PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!


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Re: [no subject]

[Rob Weir]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 02:12:54PM -0600, Matt Eberhardt said
> I ran cat on /dev/mouse/install and sure enough... no mouse installed...
> i already have hotplug installed
> how exactly do i go about installing a mouse? i am used to the distro
> install handling this

It requires kernel support for your USB controller and HID.  What does
"uname -r" say?  If it's bf2.4, then this should Just Work.  If it's
2.2, then you'll need to upgrade it to something more featureful:

$ apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.18-

where  is, 386, 686, k7, etc.  Make SURE you add the line to
lilo.conf that it suggests, then re-run lilo.

-- 
Rob Weir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  Do I look like I want a CC?
Words of the day:   embassy Mossad Commecen Verisign Agfa analyzer bank


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Description: Digital signature

[OT] SCO's crack legal team

[Greg Norris]

I thought this might provide some much-needed amusement... My wife has
put together a picture of SCO's crack legal team, which pretty much
explains their entire strategy.  Feel free to share! ;-)

   http://home.kc.rr.com/snidely/cornscolio.gif


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Re: fully removing a user?

[Benedict Verheyen]

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> So, I've noticed that my home machine has some accounts lying around
> that are certainly unused -- I set up a user so that a friend could
> use my disk space, that sort of thing.
>
> Got me thinking ... okay, you use 'userdel -r foo', and it gets rid of
> the passwd entry, home directory, and mailspool ...
>
> It's also occured to me that the user may have cron jobs installed.
> What other things might a user have that aren't automagically handled?
>
> --
> monique
> PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
> Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!

How about this command: find / -user user
This would return all files owned by that user
And if you want to search in all files for that user name:
grep -inR user /

Regards,
Benedict







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~01 0704-1215

[mhebert]

This message has been processed by the Brightmail(tm) Anti-Virus Solution using
Symantec's Norton AntiVirus Technology.

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OT - Documenting systems

[Clive Menzies]

Hi

By stealth, I seem to be developing a sysadmin personality, what with the
expanding network here and increasingly getting involved in networking
on behalf of clients.  I've tried various approaches to recording
details of individual components and the network but keeping them up to
date is difficult.

Google mainly threw up people's cv's describing their strengths in
documenting systems or commercial tools.  

Can anyone offer any guidance in terms of sources of information or 
debian tools to document networked systems.

TIA

Clive

-- 
http://www.clivemenzies.co.uk
strategies for business


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Re: source.list won't stat (problem gone)

[Haines Brown]

> From: Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 09:23:16AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:

> > I suspect as much. I find that I have two mouse sections in my X
> > configuration, and their Protocol is "PS/2", while my Microsoft mouse
> > is an IntelliMouse, which has its own "IntelliMuse"
> > protocol.=20
> 
> "Intellimouse" protocol is for serial-port mice. These are dead rare
> nowadays. For a PS/2 Intellimouse you need Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2",
> and to get the scroll wheel working, Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5".

Thanks. That's a big help, especially if I fail to get my optical
mouse working.

> Try mdetect.

I looked around, but couldn't get much information from
googling. Apparently mdetect is usually used with some kind of front
end, but I've no idea what such a front end might be. Does it require
this other program, or can you just run it by itself to probe a mouse? 

Haines


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Re: GUI login screen.

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Colin Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 07:37
Subject: Re: GUI login screen.


> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 06:59:02PM +1100, Rob Weir wrote:
> > You can almost certainly reconfigure GDM to allow you to do this, but
> > it's still a REALLY silly idea.  Using sudo is a good habit to get into,
> > and it WILL save your arse at some point.
>
> Well, gdm asks for the root password in order to shut down, I think; so
> it's not too silly. (You can probably configure it in other ways too.)
>
> -- 
> Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Thanks.  I told you I would try your suggestions.  Here is what happened:
Loged in as me at GUI login screen
Selected Control Panel from gnome start menu
under Debian selected Configure X Window (I told you gdm apparantly I was
wrong)
Input root password (now I'm root in X Windows)
Now the panel has only X(red)cancel useable the rest are grayed out as is
the panel Select cancel
Open a drawer that has logout button inside
All programs except Terminal are gone from both drawers.
Select terminal
Issue comand: sudo shutdown -r now
Password: root password
Failed
Password: My password
Failed with message that I would be reported to me.
Punched logout button on gnome start menu and went to GUI login
cntrl-alt-F1
Text mode login
? is it time to reinstall ?
Regards:
Hoyt




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Re: GUI login screen.

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 21:50 GMT, Hoyt Bailey penned:
> 
> The point being an example of
> Mainframe Mentality that seems to be growing in the Linux community
> (as someone mentioned a few days ago).  Everyone should consider the
> future. What is the future of Linux?  It should be to take over the
> Windows boxes it cant happen if everyone follows RH.
...
> "It's just that it's so amazingly silly that people have trouble
> beliving that it is what you 'really want'." or "Debian tends to be
> geared more toward multi-user computers" an example of MM.  People
> have told me that their computer works just like I think mine should
> and they dont understand what the problem is. I think you should
> consider what is the purpose of the "faces" program which I noticed in
> my gnome start menu. Just because you dont use GUI dosent mean that
> others shouldnt and Linux isnt going to ever be as popular as Windows
> unless it becomes as user friendly as windows.  In my opinion and you
> have the freedom to feel differently.

You assume that the future of linux should be to take over the Windows
boxes.  Why?  Some people would like to see that, but that isn't the
only possible point.  Linus himself would vehemently disagree.  His
purpose for linux is to build the best damn operating system he can,
according to his definitions.  If it happens to take out the windows
market, fine, but if it doesn't, *shrug*.

If "linux" (which covers a lot of territory) becomes as user-friendly as
windows, it will become quite crackable.  That's not something that I
want.

Please consider that the reason that Debian is set up with certain
defaults is that -- brace yourself -- overwhelmingly, the debian users
like it that way.  Debian users tend to prefer security to ease of use.
Debian users tend to prefer command-line solutions to GUIs.  Debian
users tend to want to understand their system, not just use it.

There are many distros out there, and while I adore Debian, I only
recommend it to the subset of my friends who will probably appreciate
it.  There are many people who are happier with other distros.

-- 
monique
PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!


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Exim4 - current spam setup

[moseley]

Ok, I'll try another exim4 post:

I'm moving to exim4 and SA 2.60 on Woody:

1) Are there common or suggested settings to make in local.cf?

2) What RBL entries (dnslists) are you using in Exim4's ACL list?

3) Any opinions on using a sender callout feature?  Will good mail get 
blocked?

4) Any comments or suggestions on updating a live woody (exim3) system
to exim4?  exim4-config conflicts with exim which makes it a tiny bit
more work to get the config setup (I'll create an exim4.conf file from
another machine before upgrading to hopefully limit downtime).

Thanks,



-- 
Bill Moseley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: POP3 mail fetcher that supports unreliable connections?

[Mark Roach]

On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 16:54, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2003-11-04 10:41:10 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> > That's because fetchmail didn't lose the mail; the delivery system did.
> 
> In some sense, yes. But if fetchmail didn't use the delivery system,
> I wouldn't have lost mail.

In every sense "yes". Stop there. Roll that thought around for a while.
Only then will you realize where the problem lies. Did fetchmail's
documentation tell you it was going to use your MTA? Undisputably yes.
Did it do what it said it was going to do? Again yes. 

Did fetchmail claim that it was going to get your mail and very tenderly
lay it on a nice soft, warm sector on your hard disk and check in on it
every few minutes to make sure it was ok? no? (ok, maybe a bit far
there, but you get the idea)

I do honestly sympathize with you for losing mail, I have lost data by
doing the wrong thing before. But you need to point the finger in the
right direction, even if that sometimes means you have to suck it up and
point it at yourself.

-- 
Mark Roach


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Re: Querying packages

[Ron Johnson]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 13:45, Paulo Jorge wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm trying to write a script that querys the local package database to
> find out which packages can be upgraded and the priority of the
> available update. Do you know how can I obtain this information from the
> database?

The package apt-show-versions rocks.

$ apt-cache show apt-show-versions
Package: apt-show-versions
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Installed-Size: 22
Maintainer: Christoph Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Architecture: all
Version: 0.04
Depends: perl | perl-5.005 | perl-5.004, apt
Filename: pool/main/a/apt-show-versions/apt-show-versions_0.04_all.deb
Size: 10682
MD5sum: 3bdcad52f9796d57b03cd8674e00f575
Description: Lists available package versions with distribution
 apt-show-versions parses the dpkg status file and the APT lists for
 the installed and available package versions and distribution and
 shows upgrade options within the specific distribution of the selected
 package.
 .
 This is really useful if you have a mixed stable/testing environment
 and want to list all packages which are from testing and can be
 upgraded in testing.


-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jefferson, LA USA

The difference between drunken sailors and Congressmen is that
drunken sailors spend their own money.


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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 21:18 GMT, Mark Healey penned:
> 
> With Redhat moving towards their Fedora scheme I figure that a move to
> Debian is the best way to avoid any more surprises from another
> comercial vendor.  I've also noticed that most distros that are built
> upon another are built upon Debian, so it must be pretty good.
> 
> Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
> latest stable one, right?

I'm running 2.4.21, so I'm guessing 2.4.22 would be sufficiently recent
=)

> Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
> .tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?

Yup.  Um, let's see.  I would normally go to
http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages and search from there, but it's
giving me a "malformed query" error.

What I normally do is download the kernel-source package, and that puts
all the code in /usr/src.  Of course, that method isn't terribly
helpful to you at the moment.

You could get the kernel.org stuff if you want; my impression is that
debian maintainers add their own useful patches and whatnot on top of
that, but I know I've run a custom-built kernel from kernel.org on a
debian system in the past without trouble.

> I did find a HOWTO but it is pretty redhat centric and assumes that
> one has X running.  My X doesn't work, I'm sure I'll be posting about
> that later.
> 
> Is there a good clear debian centered HOWTO and where is it?

Um.  I know there are some debian-specific tools to make building a
kernel easier, but I am lazy and still do things the way I learned to do
them lo these many years ago.  For one thing, the stock debian kernels
use initrd, so I assume the debian tools create a kernel that uses
initrd (but I don't know that for sure).

I did just find this by googling on "debian kernel build":

http://docs.linux.cz/debian-faq/debian-faq-11.html

>  BTW.  Knoppix kicks ass.

Indeed =)

-- 
monique
PLEASE don't CC me.  Please.  Pretty please with sugar on top.
Whatever it takes, just don't CC me!  I'm already subscribed!!


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Re: xfce

[Ron Johnson]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 13:53, Kent West wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I just installed Debian 3. I noticed it doesn't seem to have a gui
> > installed. So, I went ahead and installed xfce. Stupid question, but I
> > can't seem to figure out how to start it?
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Not knowing what your level of *nix knowledge is, it's hard to answer 
> without being too terse or too simplistic.
> 
> xfce is just a window manager on top of the GUI (the X11 Window System 
> server - don't think of "server" as a computer in the "Computing 
> Center"; think of it as a "base foundation of the graphical environment" 
> -- not exactly accurate, but good enough for this discussion).
> 
> So not only do you need a window manager such as xfce or icewm (or a 
> more bloated windowing environment such as KDE or Gnome), you also need 
> need the base GUI (X11).
> 
> You should be able to install tasksel, and then run it, and select "X 
> window system" to get a basic system up and running.
> 
> You can create a file named ".xinitrc" in your home folder, and put the 
> single line in it:
>   xfce
> to start xfce on top of X when X starts.

But to actually *start* X, you run the command
startx

And .xinitrc is not needed, depending on what /etc/alternatives/
x-session-manager and /etc/alternatives/x-window-manager point to.
Since I only have Gnome installed, they point to gnome-session and
metacity.

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jefferson, LA USA

Causation does NOT equal correlation 


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Re: POP3 mail fetcher that supports unreliable connections?

[Mark Roach]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 10:08, Bijan Soleymani wrote:
[...]
> There is another important objective: "doing the right thing". It is
> simply not acceptable to lose mail. Even if it isn't fetchmail's fault,
> fetchmail should be fault-tolerant (deal with a misconfigured mail
> system). Fetchmail should scream loudly: your mail system is fubar,
> bailing out now! I don't know if this is possible, but I think that
> that would help a lot of people.

It is not. 

Here is an analogy for you to complete (fill in the blanks). If you set
a shredder under your mail slot, and your mail gets shredded, it is your
mail carriers fault because . And they should know
what's on the other side of that slot because . ;-)
-- 
Mark Roach


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Re: icewm problems

[Thomas H. George]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 04:41:00PM -0500, Thomas H. George wrote:
> After a recent massive testing dist-upgrade (128 upgraded, 8 newly 
> installed and 60 removed) I have had problems getting icewm to work as 
> it used to.  The 60 packages that were removed are almost all kde 
> packages and one of the 8 newly installed was kdelibs-data.  After the 
> upgrade kdm was gone although it was not listed among the 60 packages 
> which were removed.  gdm allowed a log-in and then aborted.  
> 
> After re-loading kdm (fancy new log in page) I could start icewm but the 
> toolbar no longer included pysol although is was still specified in 
> .icewm/toolbar.  Pysol could still be run from an x terminal but was 
> missing from programs/games/card.
> 
> After experimenting with gnome packages I found a combination that 
> allowed gdm to start gnome and pysol was included in games/card but 
> still missing in the kdm start of icewm.
> 
> This may seem like a trivial problem but my daughter is addicted to 
> pysol and I don't dare upgrade her computer until I can solve the 
> problem.  On the other hand after the last upgrade of her computer xprt 
> wont work and --fix-broken wont fix it.
> 
> If anyone has any idea how to cure this I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Tom George
> 
PS  Just discovered that I now have only one desktop on the icewm
toolbar, used to be 4 a feature I often use.

Tom
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: GUI login screen.

[Hoyt Bailey]

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Weir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 02:04
Subject: Re: GUI login screen.
As an answer to your first comment;  If I desire to configure the Control
Panel I dont like to continualy have to reenter root password to get it done
also this concept has apparantly removed a lot of configuration options that
should be there. I.E. in desktop 2.4 Caldera has an excellent configuration
for X, you can set everything up correctly,  this is gone in desktop 3 and
RH 7.2.  Before you get the urge I know this is Debian these are for example
only  The point being an example of Mainframe Mentality that seems to be
growing in the Linux community (as someone mentioned a few days ago).
Everyone should consider the future. What is the future of Linux?  It should
be to take over the Windows boxes it cant happen if everyone follows RH.

Welcha & blaster dont come through the mailbox and since they are just
computer programs they can be stopped.  Every time I got one or the other it
was while downloading the Norton updates. That should tickel your fancy.  I
dont believe for a moment that the Norton site is infected.  Nor have I been
after getting the download finished.

"It's just that it's so amazingly silly that people have trouble beliving
that it is what you 'really want'." or "Debian tends to be geared more
toward multi-user computers" an example of MM.  People have told me that
their computer works just like I think mine should and they dont understand
what the problem is. I think you should consider what is the purpose of the
"faces" program which I noticed in my gnome start menu. Just because you
dont use GUI dosent mean that others shouldnt and Linux isnt going to ever
be as popular as Windows unless it becomes as user friendly as windows.  In
my opinion and you have the freedom to feel differently.

Regards;
Hoyt



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Users can't run wvdial due to wvdial.conf permissions

[David Jarvie]

I get the following error message running wvdial as an ordinary user (not as 
root):
Can't read config file /etc/wvdial.conf: Permission denied

The permissions  for the file are "--w--T " and the owner/group is 
root.root. The user is a member of the dialout group. I tried giving read 
access to the owner, but that didn't work either. It only worked when I gave 
read access to group or other, which is not desirable when passwords are 
stored in the file.

Any ideas on how to enable users to run wvdial while retaining security on 
wvdial.conf?


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icewm problems

[Thomas H. George]

After a recent massive testing dist-upgrade (128 upgraded, 8 newly 
installed and 60 removed) I have had problems getting icewm to work as 
it used to.  The 60 packages that were removed are almost all kde 
packages and one of the 8 newly installed was kdelibs-data.  After the 
upgrade kdm was gone although it was not listed among the 60 packages 
which were removed.  gdm allowed a log-in and then aborted.  

After re-loading kdm (fancy new log in page) I could start icewm but the 
toolbar no longer included pysol although is was still specified in 
.icewm/toolbar.  Pysol could still be run from an x terminal but was 
missing from programs/games/card.

After experimenting with gnome packages I found a combination that 
allowed gdm to start gnome and pysol was included in games/card but 
still missing in the kdm start of icewm.

This may seem like a trivial problem but my daughter is addicted to 
pysol and I don't dare upgrade her computer until I can solve the 
problem.  On the other hand after the last upgrade of her computer xprt 
wont work and --fix-broken wont fix it.

If anyone has any idea how to cure this I would greatly appreciate it.

Tom George

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Re: Querying packages

[Benedict Verheyen]

- Original Message -
From: "Paulo Jorge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:45 PM
Subject: Querying packages

>Greetings,
>
>I'm trying to write a script that querys the local package database to
>find out which packages can be upgraded and the priority of the
>available update. Do you know how can I obtain this information from
the
>database?
>
>Thanks
>--
>Paulo Jorge Jesus Silva

I can think op apt-cache policy 
There you have an Installed and a Candidate field that keeps in mind
the settings of the apt preferences file. I think you can use this in a
script and
even use the Version Table to do what you want.

Regards,
Benedict



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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Mark Healey]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:56:19 -0600, Kent West wrote:

>Mark Healey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I still think that the $15 NIC would be the easiest.
>>
>>
>> Car has no accelerator cable.
>
>Wedge a screwdriver in the accelerator linkage at the carburetor


Carbuwhater?  This is a 32 year old car and it has EFI, analog but
still.

 to
>bring the engine to about 8200rpm, and with a little judicious use of
>the gear shift (manual easiest, but automatic works too), you can get to
>the store before the transmission gets thrown out the bottom of your car
>or your crankshaft snaps in two. Simple   :-)

San Diego is a pretty spread out city.  You don't get anywhere without
getting on the freeway.

I'll just wait for my cable to arrive in the mail and hope they send
the right one.


Mark Healey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Giving debian a chance.


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Re: Going to give it another shot-need more help

[Mark Healey]

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:47:46 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 at 06:35 GMT, Mark Healey penned:
>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:52:38 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
>>
>>>Mame cab?  What is this beast?
>>
>> An arcade style video game cabinet.  Mame is an emublator of old
>> arcade games.
>>
>> http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm http://www.mame.net/
>
>That's what I thought you meant.  I'm still confused as to how it
>relates to Debian, but *shrug* I'm sure it makes sense to you =)

Gotta have a working PC inside, Debian is the distro I plan to use.

With Redhat moving towards their Fedora scheme I figure that a move to
Debian is the best way to avoid any more surprises from another
comercial vendor.  I've also noticed that most distros that are built
upon another are built upon Debian, so it must be pretty good.

Anyway I believe I should get kernel version 2.4.22.  That's the
latest stable one, right?

Is there a .deb package (and where is it) or should I just get the
.tar.bz2 one from kernel.org?

I did find a HOWTO but it is pretty redhat centric and assumes that
one has X running.  My X doesn't work, I'm sure I'll be posting about
that later.

Is there a good clear debian centered HOWTO and where is it?

 BTW.  Knoppix kicks ass.




Mark Healey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Giving debian a chance.


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Re: Miguel de Icaza on Debian

[Tom]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 01:06:28PM -0800, Greg Madden wrote:
> I wonder why he picked Debian to slander.

Money.


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