Re: Why Disable Root ssh login?

[Tim Post]

On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 01:45 -0500, Grok Mogger wrote:
> I've often seen this touted as a good security measure and I've 
> always wondered why.  I can think of a few possibilities, but I 
> really don't know.  Could someone please explain it to me?
> 
> Thanks,
> - GM

Think of a username and password as a lock and a key. You can't open the
lock without a key, finding a key is useless as it could open an
infinite number of locks.

So, guessing a username is half the battle, guessing the password is the
other half. That is last century thinking, we can now also help make
sure keys only work in certain locks if used by certain people.

If "root" is not a lock someone can touch, it becomes impossible to
pick. Disabling direct root login helps put an extra layer around it.

Leaving root enabled via SSH, you're doing half of the hacker's work for
them.

It also (as others point out) allows better auditing and tracking of who
used the root account, from where, and when. If everyone who had the
need for root access simply "shared" the same root login, accountability
becomes much more difficult to expect.

(Just) password authentication is antiquated. There's three ways to
identify yourself to something else :

1 - Who you are (username)
2 - What you know or have (password or keyfile)
3 - What you are (biometric) Or in some cases (limited) Your IP/PTR

Its better to use SSH key pairing and authenticate using all 3, rather
than just 1 and 2. Or, limit access on your SSH port (hopefully not on
the default port 22) to only a few certain IP's, ip's in a certain cidr
block, or matching a certain domain PTR.

Its very hard to get people to institute good, paranoid security because
it becomes cumbersome for average users. Average users don't need root
access via SSH, therefore failing to properly secure SSH is just lazy :)

Best,
-Tim


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 21:03 -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:
> IIRC someone related to the debian project 'holds' the debian.net domain
> and it is used as a sort of 'staging' site before it joins debian.org.
> The wiki at wiki.debian.org was on wiki.debian.net first. So since this
> is a new project, the .net was used and I'd expect that if all goes
> well, it will be added to .org.

Hi,

I see, that's good to know. Thanks!

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



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Re: Etch w/o icedove (OOPS!)

[Marc Shapiro]

Alexander Sack wrote:

On Sat, Nov 25, 2006 at 05:32:06PM -0800, Marc Shapiro wrote:
  
My mistake.  I was confusing icedove with iceweasel (which does not seem 
to be ready for Etch, yet).  When I did 'aptitude hold thunderbird' 
before the dist-upgrade then it did not try to install icedove.





Just remember that not migrating to icedove might have negative
consequences on you ... for instance, you won't get security support
for it ... e.g. the thunderbird you put on hold already has open
security issues.

So, either go for mozilla.org thunderbird or go icedove.

 - Alexander

  
I have the mozilla.org thunderbird 1.5.0.8 and firefox 2.0.  I have 
deleted the debian thunderbird package and will do the same for 
firefox.  I just need to keep on top of the updates from mozilla, I guess.


--
Marc Shapiro
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Why Disable Root ssh login?

[Jacques Normand]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 01:45:40AM -0500, Grok Mogger wrote:
> I've often seen this touted as a good security measure and I've 
> always wondered why.  I can think of a few possibilities, but I 
> really don't know.  Could someone please explain it to me?

Because, to login from outside you will need to guess a valid username
and the corresponding password. After that the root password will have
to be guessed locally which would leave a fat trace in the logs. In
addition, most of the bots around try to guess the root password and do
not spend a lot of time for normal accounts. 

Now, if you always have strong password, this should not matter. But
there is still the risk that your password looks like an obsfucated and
misspelled version of a foreign word which you have no clue about but a
lucky bot operator will try. You could also have you password leaked for
a stupid reason. In which case requiring a su/sudo will put a name on
the perpetrator...

It is just my opinion on it but I hope it helps. 

jacques


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Miles Bader]

Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think my statement was meant to say that most contributions to
> Debian are by people who are not getting paid. Would that be closer to
> a fact?

Of course.  But what of it?  The real question is whether it matters or
not.  As I mentioned in another post, paid and volunteer positions are
not simply the same thing +/- some cash -- there are big differences in
reponsibilities, motivation, control, etc.  Volunteers aren't
volunteering randomly, they get gain benefits from their activity (or
else they wouldn't do it); arguably these benefits are often _stronger_
motivations than money might be.  I'm sure there are some people who
might be so put out by the presence of any paid developers that they'd
quit, but I think most DDs are made of stronger stuff than that.

There could be more vague "social" effects, like a reduction in the
feeling of "we're all in this together" -- but I think it would take a
_significant_ presence of paid developers to cause any real
change. [What was the actual number hired?  Two?]

-Miles
-- 
80% of success is just showing up.  --Woody Allen


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Why Disable Root ssh login?

[Grok Mogger]

I've often seen this touted as a good security measure and I've 
always wondered why.  I can think of a few possibilities, but I 
really don't know.  Could someone please explain it to me?


Thanks,
- GM


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Re: KQemu on Debian Testing

[Amit Joshi]

On Wednesday 13 December 2006 02:39, Daniel Baumann wrote:
> David Baron wrote:
> >> You need testing/non-free or unstable/non-free.
> >
> > Unstable non-free, I certainly have stuff listed. No kqemu
> >
> > I compile it manually but having it in m-a would be nice.
>
> there is kqemu-source which is usable through m-a, additionally there
> are prebuild module packages for debian kernels.
>
> (unstable_i386)[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache search kqemu
> kqemu-modules-2.6-486 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on x86
> kqemu-modules-2.6-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on
> PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6-686-bigmem - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on
> PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6-k7 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on AMD K7
> kqemu-modules-2.6-vserver-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6
> on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6-vserver-k7 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on
> AMD K7
> kqemu-modules-2.6-xen-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on
> PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6-xen-k7 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6 on AMD K7
> kqemu-modules-2.6-xen-vserver-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux
> 2.6 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-486 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6.18
> on x86
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6.18
> on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-686-bigmem - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux
> 2.6.18 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-k7 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux 2.6.18 on
> AMD K7
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-vserver-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux
> 2.6.18 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-vserver-k7 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux
> 2.6.18 on AMD K7
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-xen-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux
> 2.6.18 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-xen-k7 - QEMU Accelerator modules for Linux
> 2.6.18 on AMD K7
> kqemu-modules-2.6.18-3-xen-vserver-686 - QEMU Accelerator modules for
> Linux 2.6.18 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
> kqemu-source - Source for the QEMU Accelerator module
> (unstable_i386)[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$
>

This is all I get. (Remember..I am on Testing)

debian:~# apt-cache search kqemu
kqemu-source - Source for the QEMU Accelerator module

Then I guess I need to upgrade to Unstable which I will let go. I will try 
Bochs then..

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Amit.
http://copperskullcprogramming.blogspot.com


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Re: a sound question

[Mark Grieveson]

Mark Grieveson wrote:
Hi everyone.  I have a usb-audio-device (aka a skype phone), and a 
couple of speakers plugged into my regular soundcard.  I can get 
sound out of either device separately, but not both.   I feel that I 
should be able to use both the soundcard, and the usb-audio-device at 
the same time

Mark




I sort of remember seeing in the list a way by which more than one 
"soundcard" can be loaded in the kernel at the same time.  If your usb 
device is "like" a soundcard, maybe this is possible for you.


If I recall correctly, the module  lines were something like:

alias snd-card-0 snd-fm801
options snd-fm801 index=0
alias snd-card-1 
options  index=1

 represents the second module for a second "soundcard" to be 
loaded in the kernel at the same time.


Do you think this would work for you?  HTH.

--
Sincerely
Jose Alburquerque 


Thanks Jose.  When I first tried this, it did not work properly.  But, 
after a recent upgrade, I'm please to say that both the soundcard, and 
the usb-device-audio (skype phone) now work.


Mark


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Re: flashplayer9?

[Wulfy]

Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/14/06 16:31, Wulfy wrote:
  

I saw the etch/sid deb...  I'm running sarge

The dependencies seemed to be very different.  I thought it would be
unsafe to install that deb.



Ah, ok.  I think I'd "locate" libflashplayer.so and rm them.  Then
follow debian-how-to-flash-9.html.
  

Hi, Ron.  Thanks for your help.

I did that.  FF still lists the v.7 player (along with the v.9).  No 
sound on one site that used to play fine with v.7.  Haven't tested with 
others, though.  I can never find a site when I need one! ;@)

Sarge is kinda old, though.  Does it meet FP9's minimum requirements?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Hmmm...  didn't consider that.  I looked on the Adobe site and the only 
thing I don't have is 128MB of graphics memory...  my card is ancient.  
Still, it does appear to play, though without sound.


--
Blessings

Wulfmann

Wulf Credo:
Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. 
Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between.

Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark.


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Re: jigdo and its files

[Alan Ianson]

On Thu December 14 2006 19:06, Peter Colton wrote:
> On Friday 15 December 2006 02:53, Alan Ianson wrote:
> > On Thu December 14 2006 18:29, Peter Colton wrote:
> > >   Hello all,
> > >
> > >   I been using jigdo for the dvd images of Etch "testing" over the last
> > > couple of mouths. From :
> > > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/jigdo-dvd/
> > > The jigdo files I downloaded where in the format of :
> > > debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.jigdo
> > > debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.template   :  and so on
> > >
> > > But now there is more jigdo files in the format of :
> > > debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.jigdo
> > > debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.template
> > >
> > > So the question is whats the difference ? and which format of jigdo
> > > file do I use ?
> >
> > Hard to say why that is, looks like the ones without -binary in the name
> > are newer so maybe the names have changed?
> >
> > I had a look in a few other arch's and they don't have any -binary in the
> > filenames, those are the ones I would get. The -binary means the iso's
> > are for binary packages as opposed to -source packages.
>
>   Thanks for your replie Alan
>
>   As you pointed out in the other arch's its just :
> debian-testing-arch's-DVD-1.jigdo
>
> So this jigdo file type as the source and the binary for the package ?

I think this is binary packages just as before but the -binary is assumed. The 
source iso's have -source in the filename. That's just an uneducated guess 
though.. :)

> Where as the :
> debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.jigdo
> Is for just the binary packages ?
>
>   Regards : peter colton


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Re: jigdo and its files

[Peter Colton]

On Friday 15 December 2006 02:53, Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Thu December 14 2006 18:29, Peter Colton wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I been using jigdo for the dvd images of Etch "testing" over the last
> > couple of mouths. From :
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/jigdo-dvd/
> > The jigdo files I downloaded where in the format of :
> > debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.jigdo
> > debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.template   :  and so on
> >
> > But now there is more jigdo files in the format of :
> > debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.jigdo
> > debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.template
> >
> > So the question is whats the difference ? and which format of jigdo file
> > do I use ?
>
> Hard to say why that is, looks like the ones without -binary in the name
> are newer so maybe the names have changed?
>
> I had a look in a few other arch's and they don't have any -binary in the
> filenames, those are the ones I would get. The -binary means the iso's are
> for binary packages as opposed to -source packages.

Thanks for your replie Alan

As you pointed out in the other arch's its just : 
debian-testing-arch's-DVD-1.jigdo

So this jigdo file type as the source and the binary for the package ?

Where as the :
debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.jigdo
Is for just the binary packages ?

Regards : peter colton


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Re: jigdo and its files

[Alan Ianson]

On Thu December 14 2006 18:29, Peter Colton wrote:
>   Hello all,
>
>   I been using jigdo for the dvd images of Etch "testing" over the last
> couple of mouths. From :
> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/jigdo-dvd/
> The jigdo files I downloaded where in the format of :
> debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.jigdo
> debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.template   :  and so on
>
> But now there is more jigdo files in the format of :
> debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.jigdo
> debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.template
>
> So the question is whats the difference ? and which format of jigdo file do
> I use ?

Hard to say why that is, looks like the ones without -binary in the name are 
newer so maybe the names have changed?

I had a look in a few other arch's and they don't have any -binary in the 
filenames, those are the ones I would get. The -binary means the iso's are 
for binary packages as opposed to -source packages.


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Re: Why multi-seat Debian Sid cannot use the stock kernel.

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 05:41:35PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 07:00:35PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Running a multiseat setup is easy with Sid/Etch because it only involves 
> > plugging in the hardware (more than 1 videocard/monitor/mouse/keyboard) 
> > and configuring xorg.conf + gdm.conf (both attached). It still makes 
> > economic sense because the cost of the sum of those 4 things is still 
> > less than the cost of a complete PC.
> > 
> > However... you cannot use a stock Debian kernel, and I figured out why 
> > but don't know the reason behind it.
> > 
> > You will have to use USB mice because that is the only place there is 
> > physical room.
> > 
> > But stock kernels use initrd to load USB module usbhid for USB mouse 
> > support.
> > 
> > And with that X will fail with "No core pointer!"
> 
> weird.
> 
> > 
> > I welcome anybody to venture the reason for this behavior. And how do 
> > you take the usbhid module out of the initrd.img of a stock Debian kernel?
> 
> well, I was surprised to find that machine is using mkinitrd (sid
> box). I thought we had moved to yaird. regardless, there is a file for
> mkinitrd, /etc/mkinitrd/modules that behaves just like /etc/modules,
> so I imagine you could use 'blacklist usbhid' to keep it out of the
> initrd. I know some similar conf exits for yaird.
> 


heh. that was a reference to "my" machine, not "that" machine. I'm at
home now ona box with yaird

man yaird says that it will exclude modules listed in
/etc/hotplug/blacklist and in /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d but I don't
know how that plays with purging hotplug for the udev
upgrade. regardless, though, putting usbhid in one of those places
would cause yaird to NOT include that module in the initrd... at least
that's how I read the man page.

A





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Re: flashplayer9?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/14/06 16:31, Wulfy wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 12/14/06 15:09, Wulfy wrote:
>>  
>>> I got fed up with messages on sites saying "please update your
>>> flashplayer". so, not finding a deb for it, I googled and found this
>>> page;
>>>
>>> http://wizah.blogspot.com/2006/10/debian-how-to-flash-9.html
>>>
>>> I followed the instructions on that page, purged all the debs for
>>> flashplayer, installed the .so and restarted Firefox.
>>>
>>> Firefox still insists it has the v.7 player.  It also says way down on
>>> about:config that it has the v.9 player.
>>>
>>> Sites like  still say I
>>> have to update...
>>>
>>> How do I get FF to forget about v.7???
>>> 
>>
>> $ wajig policy flashplugin-nonfree
>> flashplugin-nonfree:
>>   Installed: 9.0.21.78.3
>>   Candidate: 9.0.21.78.3
>>   Version table:
>>  *** 9.0.21.78.3 0
>> 500 ftp://mirrors.kernel.org unstable/contrib Packages
>> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>>
>> - --
>> Ron Johnson, Jr.
>> Jefferson LA  USA
> I saw the etch/sid deb...  I'm running sarge
> 
> The dependencies seemed to be very different.  I thought it would be
> unsafe to install that deb.

Ah, ok.  I think I'd "locate" libflashplayer.so and rm them.  Then
follow debian-how-to-flash-9.html.

Sarge is kinda old, though.  Does it meet FP9's minimum requirements?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.
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I19jjVUlggXvkc6Dg3585EY=
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jigdo and its files

[Peter Colton]

Hello all,

I been using jigdo for the dvd images of Etch "testing" over the last 
couple 
of mouths. From :
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/jigdo-dvd/
The jigdo files I downloaded where in the format of :
debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.jigdo
debian-testing-i386-DVD-1.template   :  and so on

But now there is more jigdo files in the format of :
debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.jigdo
debian-testing-i386-DVD-binary-1.template

So the question is whats the difference ? and which format of jigdo file do I 
use ?

Regards : peter colton


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:41:40AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Traditionally no one is paid to do Free software work.
> 
> This of course, is simply (and obviously) not true.
> 
Hi Miles,
I guess I agree that this statement is false. There are more than a few
differnt types of people who work on Free software.
Free software for-profit businesses
Ximian, Gnome, Ubuntu, Linutop, Suse, Redhat
Free software not-for-profit projects
Skoelinux, OSDL ?
Free software volunteer projects
Debian, OpenSuse, Fedora

And people can be paid to work on any of these projects and people can
choose to volunteer to work on these as well. But what percentage of
contributions to Debian are from volunteers vs people being paid? I
think my statement was meant to say that most contributions to Debian
are by people who are not getting paid. Would that be closer to a fact?

Cheers,
Kev
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TLS, XEN and a big mess

[Jacques Normand]

Hi everybody,

I know that this is a subject often raise but don't flag me FAQ just
yet, I have done the reading.

Here is the scenario, I am trying to run xen3.0.3 with debian etch. I
have installed both libc6 and libc6-xen since the latter depends on the
previous one (which sounds so weird). I also use a custom compiled
kernel, a vanilla 2.6.16.29 patched with the sources of xen-3.0.3-1. 
I compiled a pae version and installed the corresponding package for the
hypervisor.

The problem comes from the tls, in the domU (I have not seen that with
dom0 yet, but that may be happening too), I see random segfaults. I try
to 'disable' the tls libraries by moving them away and that still
happens. A good example is with bcfg2:
(before moving)
> strace bcfg2 -v -d -q
...
access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libnsl.so.1", O_RDONLY) = 5
read(5, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0p5\0\000"...,
512) = 512
fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=76548, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 87808, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 5, 0)
= 0xb77fc000
mmap2(0xb780e000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 5, 0x11) = 0xb780e000
mmap2(0xb781, 5888, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb781
close(5)= 0
munmap(0xb79d9000, 11093)   = 0
--- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---
+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++
Process 3127 detached

(after moving)
...
access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libnsl.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/lib/libnsl.so.1", O_RDONLY)  = 5
read(5, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0`5\0\000"...,
512) = 512
fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=72452, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 83712, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 5, 0)
= 0xb783f000
mmap2(0xb785, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 5, 0x10) = 0xb785
mmap2(0xb7852000, 5888, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb7852000
close(5)= 0
munmap(0xb7a1b000, 11093)   = 0
--- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---
+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++
Process 3130 detached

So it seems that both version of libnsl.so.1 use a bad addressing (but
they are not identical files). 

All that would be fine if it were not segfaulting but enabling the slower
emulation mode that is mentionned everywhere in the docs. I don't know
how I can enable it. Is there something I missed.

thanks

jacques

PS: by fine, I mean less puzzling. 


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 02:30:12AM +0100, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 19:35 -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: 
> > Have you seen this?[0]
> > > debian-desktop project has made for etch, etc. The design itself looks
> > > like something stuck way back in 1998. The newly created debian sites
> > > for debconf[1] by comparison looks modern and fresh.
> > Cheers,
> > Kev
> > [0] http://times.debian.net/
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Yes I have, and I think it's a really good start.
> 
> However, the problem, as I see it, is that DebianTimes, and other sites,
> isn't accessible from www.debian.org. It seems that people find it
> easier to start new sites instead of extending, and keeping updated, the
> main Debian site. That's the one people see when they type in
> www.debian.org, or choose the first hit in a search engine.
> 
> I would really like to see all the news, howto, message boards, planets,
> wiki and other interesting sites around the Debian project integrated to
> some degree with debian.org so people new to Debian more easily can get
> an overview and see the amazing activity going on. 
Hi Sven,
IIRC someone related to the debian project 'holds' the debian.net domain
and it is used as a sort of 'staging' site before it joins debian.org.
The wiki at wiki.debian.org was on wiki.debian.net first. So since this
is a new project, the .net was used and I'd expect that if all goes
well, it will be added to .org.
Cheers,
Kev
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| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
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|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Miles Bader]

Default User <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How would YOU feel working hard for $0/mo while someone else gets paid
> (perhaps) $6,000/mo for working on the same project?

Just fine thank you.

When I do work as a free software volunteer, I do it because I enjoy it.
I typically enjoy it no less if someone else is paid to work on the same
project; I may even enjoy it _more_ if the resulting full-time attention
makes the project better.  Since a lot of very active free software
projects have both paid and volunteer programmers, I would guess that
many other people also have no problem with this issue.

I don't think this is particularly surprising -- it's been shown than
money is not the perfect motivator some people think it is; being a
volunteer and being an employee simply have different tradeoffs (a
volunteer has more freedom to do what he enjoys, when he wants; an
employee gives up some of that freedom for income).

Perhaps debian volunteers are more fragile than usual, I don't know.

[I'm not saying the dunc-tank project is producing useful results; maybe
it isn't...]

-Miles

-- 
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`All the past could be forgiven.'   [NYT]


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Douglas Tutty]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 02:30:12AM +0100, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 19:35 -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: 
> > Have you seen this?[0]
> > > debian-desktop project has made for etch, etc. The design itself looks
> > > like something stuck way back in 1998. The newly created debian sites
> > > for debconf[1] by comparison looks modern and fresh.
> > Cheers,
> > Kev
> > [0] http://times.debian.net/
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Yes I have, and I think it's a really good start.
> 
> However, the problem, as I see it, is that DebianTimes, and other sites,
> isn't accessible from www.debian.org. It seems that people find it
> easier to start new sites instead of extending, and keeping updated, the
> main Debian site. That's the one people see when they type in
> www.debian.org, or choose the first hit in a search engine.
> 
> I would really like to see all the news, howto, message boards, planets,
> wiki and other interesting sites around the Debian project integrated to
> some degree with debian.org so people new to Debian more easily can get
> an overview and see the amazing activity going on. 

Why doesn't the debian web-designer have a links page?  People email a
suggested link and if it looks good it gets added.

Doug.



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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Miles Bader]

Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Traditionally no one is paid to do Free software work.

This of course, is simply (and obviously) not true.

-Miles

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Re: Why multi-seat Debian Sid cannot use the stock kernel.

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 07:00:35PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Running a multiseat setup is easy with Sid/Etch because it only involves 
> plugging in the hardware (more than 1 videocard/monitor/mouse/keyboard) 
> and configuring xorg.conf + gdm.conf (both attached). It still makes 
> economic sense because the cost of the sum of those 4 things is still 
> less than the cost of a complete PC.
> 
> However... you cannot use a stock Debian kernel, and I figured out why 
> but don't know the reason behind it.
> 
> You will have to use USB mice because that is the only place there is 
> physical room.
> 
> But stock kernels use initrd to load USB module usbhid for USB mouse 
> support.
> 
> And with that X will fail with "No core pointer!"

weird.

> 
> I welcome anybody to venture the reason for this behavior. And how do 
> you take the usbhid module out of the initrd.img of a stock Debian kernel?

well, I was surprised to find that machine is using mkinitrd (sid
box). I thought we had moved to yaird. regardless, there is a file for
mkinitrd, /etc/mkinitrd/modules that behaves just like /etc/modules,
so I imagine you could use 'blacklist usbhid' to keep it out of the
initrd. I know some similar conf exits for yaird.

A


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Miles Bader]

Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Traditionally no one is paid to do Free software work.

This of course, is simply (and obviously) not true.

-Miles

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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 19:35 -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: 
> Have you seen this?[0]
> > debian-desktop project has made for etch, etc. The design itself looks
> > like something stuck way back in 1998. The newly created debian sites
> > for debconf[1] by comparison looks modern and fresh.
> Cheers,
> Kev
> [0] http://times.debian.net/

Hi,

Yes I have, and I think it's a really good start.

However, the problem, as I see it, is that DebianTimes, and other sites,
isn't accessible from www.debian.org. It seems that people find it
easier to start new sites instead of extending, and keeping updated, the
main Debian site. That's the one people see when they type in
www.debian.org, or choose the first hit in a search engine.

I would really like to see all the news, howto, message boards, planets,
wiki and other interesting sites around the Debian project integrated to
some degree with debian.org so people new to Debian more easily can get
an overview and see the amazing activity going on. 

Debian is by no means the only project with this problem. GNOME, for
example, is busy redesigning and re-thinking their site and
infrastructure.

Maybe this can serve as a little bit of inspiration,
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/LooknFeel

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



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Re: VCD no go with MPlayer.

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 22:24 +0100, Brian Durant wrote:
> Hi Sven,

Hi again, :)

> The below works fine:
> 
> $ mplayer -ao esd  vcd://6
> 
> I added '-ao esd' to the .mplayer/config file and now 'mplayer
> vcd://6' now returns the following:

It's actually ao=esd. A short configuration file would simply look like
this,

vo=xv,x11
ao=esd

You can look at the system wide configuration file
in /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf to get a clue for more options. 

I'm not sure if you're used to these kinds of configurations files, but
the # in the beginning of files is a comment, so those options are
commented out and won't be used.

Most of the stuff in the configuration file isn't necessary but can be
useful. For example, the below two lines I use to set the default
languages when playing DVD movies. This will first try english then
swedish for subtitles and trying japanese, english and last swedish for
audio.

slang= en,sv  
alang= ja,en,sv

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Default User]

IMHO, the idea of paying privileged, pet, mercenary developers, while
others
work for free, was a VERY BAD IDEA!  And it FAILED MISERABLY: (12-4-06
release? It's now 12-15-06 UT; still no release in sight).  How would
YOU feel working hard for $0/mo while someone else  gets paid (perhaps)
$6,000/mo for working on the same project?  

Something akin to Gresham's Law applies here: money drives anything good
out.  Get the money out of Debian, before it becomes just an OpenSUSE
look-alike/wannabe.  

Although I do really miss Debian Weekly News, I FULLY SUPPORT the
decision of it's editor to STOP WORK on it, and admire him standing up
for what is correct, something that seems to be missing recently in the
Debian project.  

Final word: money isn't the answer to the problem, money IS the
problem.


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Re: debian on an NAS server

[Tom Brown]

On Thursday 14 December 2006 10:56, Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 08:23 -0800, Tom Brown wrote:
> > On Wednesday 13 December 2006 23:26, Tom Brown wrote:
> > > During boot I hit
> > > F2 to get to a menu which allows me to select the BIOS setup. It was
> > > there I setup the first boot device to be the network. However, what I
> > > missed in the menu was the option for re-installation. I need to select
> > > that and everything should work correctly. I am going to try that first
> > > thing tomorrow. I'll let the list know how it works out.
> >
> > Well, I tried using the re-installation option from the F2 menu. It
> > didn't help. I still get PXELINUX to download and execute, but when it
> > comes to booting the kernel, it fails. Back to google for me. Or maybe
> > Dell as someone suggested.
>
> Sorry for your problems, but I'd have to have one in front of me to get
> it to work. On thing I have never used (the whole Powervault series for
> example) its tough for me to finger the problems or to get the proper
> working targets.
>
> I know, it sucks, but one you get it done, document it. That way others
> won't have such a hard time doing the same or similar things.
>
> I live in Michigan, so unless you are close to Grand Rapids... I'd have
> to say my odds of figuring out your conundrum is about nil.
I live in Washington State. I almost gathered my comps and flew to Grand 
Rapids out of sheer frustration. However, I learned a little lesson in "never 
use MS tools"... again. I was using hyperterm to interface with the nas 
server and I couldn't read all the output from pxelinux. So, I tried to 
caputre the output, but it was unreadable. I had to leave this project to go 
do some real work for awhile. When I came back to it, my head must have 
cleared a bit because I decided to use teratermpro instead (ok, I probably 
should have been using a linux box and minicom to begin with, but I only had 
the windoze box available to me). I captured the output and was able to read 
the error that my tftp server did not support tsize (whatever that is). I 
just pointed the netboot to a different tftp server and it just worked. Shoot 
me.

Well, I hope that this post saves somebody else a lot of time and effort.

Thanks,
Tom


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Why multi-seat Debian Sid cannot use the stock kernel.

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Hi,

Running a multiseat setup is easy with Sid/Etch because it only involves 
plugging in the hardware (more than 1 videocard/monitor/mouse/keyboard) 
and configuring xorg.conf + gdm.conf (both attached). It still makes 
economic sense because the cost of the sum of those 4 things is still 
less than the cost of a complete PC.


However... you cannot use a stock Debian kernel, and I figured out why 
but don't know the reason behind it.


You will have to use USB mice because that is the only place there is 
physical room.


But stock kernels use initrd to load USB module usbhid for USB mouse 
support.


And with that X will fail with "No core pointer!"

If you do not preload usbhid then everything is OK.

I figured this out by trying to boot with an USB disk running and 
present in /etc/fstab. If you do not use an initrd then the boot process 
is interrupted with a superblock error, because the mechanism to read 
the disk is not yet present.


Because I cannot use a stock kernel on my two-seater I had to use yaird 
to load the USB storage support, and use --initrd on my make-kpkg of the 
custom kernel (2.6.17.14-ck1) Not knowing at first I added:


...
MODULE  usbcore
MODULE  ehci-hcd
MODULE  uhci-hcd
MODULE  usbhid
MODULE  usb-storage
...

to /etc/yaird/Default.cfg. That made the USB disk come up but X failed 
with the core pointer error.


When I took uhci-hcd + usbhid out of the list, the USB disk came up 
*and* X now started.


I welcome anybody to venture the reason for this behavior. And how do 
you take the usbhid module out of the initrd.img of a stock Debian kernel?


Hugo







Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier  "X0"
Screen  0   "Screen X0" 0 0
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" 
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
#   Option  "SingleCard" "true"   
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier  "X1"
Screen  0   "Screen X1" 0 0
InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard"
#   Option  "SingleCard" "true"   
#   Option  "BlankTime"  "3600"
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
Option  "Composite" "Enable"
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"   
Identifier  "Xinerama"  
 
Screen  "Screen x0" 
   
Screen  "Screen x1" Rightof "Screen x0"  
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection   

Section "Files"
ModulePath  "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/"
ModulePath  "/usr/lib/xorg/modules/" 
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/"
#   xfs-xtt
#   FontPath "unix/:7100"
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/"
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/"
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/"
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/"
FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TrueType/"
EndSection

Section "Module"
Load  "dbe"
#   turned on 11/15/06!
Load  "dri"
Load  "extmod"
Load  "glx"
Load  "pex5"
Load  "record"
Load  "xie"
Load  "type1"
#-- 
Load"freetype"
#   Load"type1"
Load"xft"
#   Load"extmod"
#   Load"xie"
#   Load"pex5"
#   Load"glx"
#   Load"dri"
#   Load"GLcore"
#   Load"dbe"
#---
EndSection

#Section "InputDevice"
#   Identifier  "Keyboard0"
#   Driver  "kbd"
#   Option  "XkbModel""pc105"
#   Option  "XkbLayout"   "us_intl"
#   Option  "XkbOptions"  "alt-intl"
#EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier   "Keyboard0"
Driver   "evdev"
#   Option   "Device" "/dev/input/event0"
Option   "Phys"   "isa0060/serio1/input0"
Option   "XkbLayout"  "us_intl"
Option   "Xleds"  "2 3"
EndSection

#Section "InputDevice"
#   Identifier  "Keyboard1"
#   Driver  "kbd"
#   Option  "XkbModel""pc105"
#   Option  "XkbLayout"   "us_intl"
#EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier   "Keyboard1"
Driver   "evdev"
#   Option   "Device" "/dev/input/event1"
Option   "Phys"  

Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 11:59:14PM +0100, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> I agree with a lot of what you said, and really miss DWN myself.
> 
> For people already interested in, and involved with Debian, reading
> mailing lists, the wiki, and the blogs on planet was probably a better
> way to keep up. However, DWN was important as it was an easy to find,
> and easy to read summary. Keeping up with hundreds of mails, updates on
> the wiki, and skimming blogs to filter out the Debian related stuff[0]
> is hard work.
> 
> DWN was also important as it was being translated to different languages
> and the fact that it was made a de facto timeline of everything
> happening in the Debian universe.
> 
> I honestly believe PR and generating hype is two of Debian's major
> shortcomings. For example, www.debian.org doesn't contain any
> interesting news about the Etch freeze, no snapshots of the eyecandy the
Hi Sven,
Have you seen this?[0]
> debian-desktop project has made for etch, etc. The design itself looks
> like something stuck way back in 1998. The newly created debian sites
> for debconf[1] by comparison looks modern and fresh.
Cheers,
Kev
[0] http://times.debian.net/
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| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[John Hasler]

D G Teed wrote:
> I understand the political tug of war the DWN editor is involved in, but
> in the end, holding a gun to the head of what you like isn't helping
> anything.  The missing DWN is one missing piece of "product" continuity,
> and reading the "why" just makes things worse.

The editor of DWN asks for help in every issue.  How have you responded to
that request?
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:27:09PM -0400, D G Teed wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I'm a sysadmin of the Unix half of a small University
> main server room.  Recently we have been trying to
> decide on a replacement for FreeBSD for 14 servers.
> 
> I favor Debian, however I can't make that decision on
> my own.  I found it was a challenge to convince
> others in the decision making process that Debian
> is solid and here to stay when the Dunc Tanc causes
> the Weekly News to drop out of consistent appearance.
> I know there are alternate sources of information, but
> one must consider that non-Linux users are amongst
> the visitors of the Debian project web site.

how is this different than a for-profit corporation deciding to remove
support for a particular installation; changing its primary method of
communicating with customers; or any number of other things that
corps could choose to do? 

> 
> It is small things about the web site for Debian which
> make Debian look less maintained than it really is.

the reality, as I see it from my two years with debian on all my
machines, is that the website is functional. it does what its supposed
to do -- get the information to the people. I would much rather have
volunteers spending time making a good OS instead of making a pretty web page.

> I understand the political tug of war the DWN editor
> is involved in, but in the end, holding a gun to the head
> of what you like isn't helping anything.  The missing DWN
> is one missing piece of "product" continuity, and reading
> the "why" just makes things worse.  The people involved
> are shown to be struggling for their individual rights
> on the same level as teenagers refusing to return
> someones possessions until the other person returns
> something they are missing (regardless of whether
> they really need it).  Principled self-righteousness is
> something that even 6 year olds can master (I have one).
> Its absence in mature people is sometimes mistaken for
> lack of awareness or apathy.
> 

this kind of stuff happens all over the world in all kinds of contexts
all the time. So balmer throws chairs at people, how is that for one's
view of MS as a company and a business partner? I'm not trying to
flame here. I think that the powers that be in your organization might
have their priorities mixed up and its up to you to either educate them or
accept it. 

> It would be great if snarls between perspectives of developers
> had no impact on DWM and other aspects of Debian.  If a person
> developing Debian truly loves what they are doing, the Dunc Tanc
> should have no impact on what they are contributing either way.
> One way to protest it is to ignore it and stick to the essentials.
> It might seem insane, but there are people in the world
> who plant crops while bullets and mines are real threats.
> There is no point protesting when what you need to do
> is ensure you have food to live on in the future.
> 
> It is the same with Debian.  It will only grow stronger with continued
> efforts of volunteers.  If it woobles and appears like the project web
> site of something much smaller, decision makers will not
> trust Debian as a mature, robust and trustworthy source of
> Linux and Linux applications.

that is an education issue more than anything. Truly educated decision
makers can look deeper than the first layer and determine the merits
of a product/project regardless of how glossy or not that top layer
is. the appearance of a website is irrelevant to the quality of a
product.

> 
> So far, I have failed to convince other decision makers that
> Debian deserves more roles in our server room, and we
> are headed to adoption of Redhat.  Yes, it is insane that
> decisions like this are made by someone with 20 minutes
> of experience installing Linux, but that it how it is.  They
> might have been more willing to consider my opinion
> if Debian's web appearance, newsletters, etc. demonstrated
> that Debian is backed by a "thousand plus" highly talented
developers.

maybe, since its free, they would like to try it in parallel with
other options and see which one "works" better for them? and you
answered your own question -- debian is backed by developers, not
marketing folks. That makes me confident that the real work is getting
done. Yet with all the work that is getting done, the website,
non-flashy though it is, continues to be up-to-date and functional. It
strikes me as the right balance.

> 
> Typically when I have criticism of something open source, I hear
> back retorts of "why don't you volunteer to fix it?".   I will answer
> that right now.  It takes all kinds of people to make Debian a
> success, not only people writing code and documentation.
> I have contributed to open source projects where I've
> had the time and talent to do so.  At the current stage
> of my life I don't have the time to do more.  So my main role in
> supporting it will be advocate, user, product demonstrator
> and perhaps once in awhile, commenter

Re: aptitutde: "untrusted versions of the following packages will be installed!"

[Wayne Topa]

mess-mate([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | Ryo wrote:
> | >[...]
> | >I did "aptitude update; aptitude dist-upgrade" when I got the error
> | >(quoted in the subject of this message).  Does that mean that
> | >"aptitude update" is different from "apt-get update" 
> | >[...]
> | >  
> | I don't think so. It sounds like a problem with Aptitude's internal 
> database. Aptitude 
> | throws a wobbly if you use another package manager too. You can always 
> check whether 
> | Aptitude is sane by running "aptitude install -sf" first, and fix it by 
> running "aptitude 
> | keep-all" (see 
> | 
> http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get).
> | 
> | -- 
> | Chris.
> | 
> Sorry but 'There is currently no text in this page'

Sorry, but there sure is.  try it this way


Wayne

-- 
If a listener nods his head when you're explaining your program, wake
him up.
___


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Sven Arvidsson]

I agree with a lot of what you said, and really miss DWN myself.

For people already interested in, and involved with Debian, reading
mailing lists, the wiki, and the blogs on planet was probably a better
way to keep up. However, DWN was important as it was an easy to find,
and easy to read summary. Keeping up with hundreds of mails, updates on
the wiki, and skimming blogs to filter out the Debian related stuff[0]
is hard work.

DWN was also important as it was being translated to different languages
and the fact that it was made a de facto timeline of everything
happening in the Debian universe.

I honestly believe PR and generating hype is two of Debian's major
shortcomings. For example, www.debian.org doesn't contain any
interesting news about the Etch freeze, no snapshots of the eyecandy the
debian-desktop project has made for etch, etc. The design itself looks
like something stuck way back in 1998. The newly created debian sites
for debconf[1] by comparison looks modern and fresh.

0. I don't think the planet only should be limited to Debian
related postings, but for someone only interested in the
project, and not the people in it, I guess it's a problem.

1. http://www.debconf.org/ and http://debconf6.debconf.org/

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



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Re: flashplayer9?

[Wulfy]

Kent West wrote:
You probably still have the ver7 .so in one of the plugins paths for 
Firefox. Do a "locate
libflashplayer.so" and rename/move any that you aren't confident is 
the v.9 version out of any relevant plugins directories.
I used locate to find all the libflashplayer.so's.  Most are symlinks to 
the /usr/lib/Mozilla/plugin directory where the real .so is.


On an aside, I tried a beta of 9; audio would often lock into a 
repeating stutter, but someone pointed me to a more recent beta, and 
most of the audio problems went away. But there were still enough 
irritations that I've gone back to 7, and when I come across a site 
that needs 9, more often than not, that site loses my eyeballs. 
Occasionally I'll quickly flip over to 9 (I just rename-swap the 7 and 
9 versions of the file and restart FF).


I tried FF on a site[0] that worked with the v.7 plugin.  The v.9 plugin 
was called (obviously as it's the only one on my system now) but there 
was no sound.


[0] http://www.wirral-mbc.gov.uk/Vikings/storyindex.shtml (all the 
scenes open into full page flash objects.)


--
Blessings

Wulfmann

Wulf Credo:
Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. 
Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between.

Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark.


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Re: flashplayer9?

[Wulfy]

Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/14/06 15:09, Wulfy wrote:
  

I got fed up with messages on sites saying "please update your
flashplayer". so, not finding a deb for it, I googled and found this page;

http://wizah.blogspot.com/2006/10/debian-how-to-flash-9.html

I followed the instructions on that page, purged all the debs for
flashplayer, installed the .so and restarted Firefox.

Firefox still insists it has the v.7 player.  It also says way down on
about:config that it has the v.9 player.

Sites like  still say I
have to update...

How do I get FF to forget about v.7???



$ wajig policy flashplugin-nonfree
flashplugin-nonfree:
  Installed: 9.0.21.78.3
  Candidate: 9.0.21.78.3
  Version table:
 *** 9.0.21.78.3 0
500 ftp://mirrors.kernel.org unstable/contrib Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

I saw the etch/sid deb...  I'm running sarge

The dependencies seemed to be very different.  I thought it would be 
unsafe to install that deb.


--
Blessings

Wulfmann

Wulf Credo:
Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. 
Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between.

Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark.


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Etch ISO images

[Hans du Plooy]

Hi guys,

I want to download the latest current testing images.   What is the
difference between the first three images, and the -binary images after
that in:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/jigdo-dvd/

Thanks
Hans


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 03:50:14PM -0500, Douglas Tutty wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:27:09PM -0400, D G Teed wrote:
> > Howdy,
> > 
> > I'm a sysadmin of the Unix half of a small University
> > main server room.  Recently we have been trying to
> > decide on a replacement for FreeBSD for 14 servers.
> > 
> > I favor Debian, however I can't make that decision on
> > my own.  I found it was a challenge to convince
> > others in the decision making process that Debian
> > is solid and here to stay when the Dunc Tanc causes
> > the Weekly News to drop out of consistent appearance.
> > I know there are alternate sources of information, but
> > one must consider that non-Linux users are amongst
> > the visitors of the Debian project web site.
> > 
> [...] 
> > If there are other users who also feel this issue has degraded the
> > appearance of the Debian project and its web site, you might share
> > your view.
Hi Doug,
> 
> Whats a Dunc Tanc?
here is the main site[0].
During the development of Etch, folks wanted to get Etch released in a
more timely manner after watching Ubuntu do 6 month releases and wanted
to addresss some of the issues that lead to problems and the long delay
of Sarge. Some unknown (sort of) folks wanted to make a fund to allow the
2 Stable Release managers to devote a month of their time to focus on
doing Etch relase managment rather than other things. Eventually they
got some more funds and they agreed to pay each person 6000 USD, which
is yet to be paid along with any other financial and legal obligation
that needs to be done. This, as it was labeled, 'experiment' caused much
protest in the debian development community. Traditionally no one is
paid to do Free software work. So when these people were to be paid,
others felt 'unvalued' by comparison and thus lead to people being less
motivated. One affect was the Debian weekly news (DWN) not being done or
release slowed. Which the commentor thins should have not happened. Some
people stopped working on project and orphaned them. Others were in
favor of the effort. There was an offical vote and this expressed the view
that most of Debian had no problem with the experiment and wanted to at
least try this to see if it would improve things. A very vocal and more
senior minority disliked the vote outcome. And we will see what impact
this ultimately has in the comming years. 
This is just a condensed synopsis. There are many more comments on the
debian-devel mailing list over the last few months if you want a more
nuanced and complete understanding.
Cheers,
Kev

[0] http://www.dunc-tank.org/
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |


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Re: flashplayer9?

[Kent West]

Wulfy wrote:
I got fed up with messages on sites saying "please update your 
flashplayer". so, not finding a deb for it, I googled and found this 
page;


http://wizah.blogspot.com/2006/10/debian-how-to-flash-9.html

I followed the instructions on that page, purged all the debs for 
flashplayer, installed the .so and restarted Firefox.


Firefox still insists it has the v.7 player.  It also says way down on 
about:config that it has the v.9 player.


Sites like  still say I 
have to update...


How do I get FF to forget about v.7???




You probably still have the ver7 .so in one of the plugins paths for 
Firefox. Do a "locate
libflashplayer.so" and rename/move any that you aren't confident is the 
v.9 version out of any relevant plugins directories.


On an aside, I tried a beta of 9; audio would often lock into a 
repeating stutter, but someone pointed me to a more recent beta, and 
most of the audio problems went away. But there were still enough 
irritations that I've gone back to 7, and when I come across a site that 
needs 9, more often than not, that site loses my eyeballs. Occasionally 
I'll quickly flip over to 9 (I just rename-swap the 7 and 9 versions of 
the file and restart FF).


--
Kent West
http://kentwest.blogspot.com 


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Re: flashplayer9?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/14/06 15:09, Wulfy wrote:
> I got fed up with messages on sites saying "please update your
> flashplayer". so, not finding a deb for it, I googled and found this page;
> 
> http://wizah.blogspot.com/2006/10/debian-how-to-flash-9.html
> 
> I followed the instructions on that page, purged all the debs for
> flashplayer, installed the .so and restarted Firefox.
> 
> Firefox still insists it has the v.7 player.  It also says way down on
> about:config that it has the v.9 player.
> 
> Sites like  still say I
> have to update...
> 
> How do I get FF to forget about v.7???

$ wajig policy flashplugin-nonfree
flashplugin-nonfree:
  Installed: 9.0.21.78.3
  Candidate: 9.0.21.78.3
  Version table:
 *** 9.0.21.78.3 0
500 ftp://mirrors.kernel.org unstable/contrib Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFgcy7S9HxQb37XmcRAtphAJ44OKDn4Kxby5i4rA5M5eRdazS+qgCfcc7u
UYtOO/ZwsIXG+a3e+DQlO+c=
=uYqb
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Etch and Sid Amd64 freeze when accessing gmail with Firefox or epiphany

[Fab]

I am currently using Debian Etch Amd64 kernel 2.6.18, it's a fresh
install. (but also tried with Sid)

Everytime I log on to gmail with either firefox 1.5 or 2.0 or epiphany,
I get to the inbox but the system freeze after I click on something,
can be straight away

I can still move the mouse (USB) but can't click and the keyboard
doesn't respond as well (PS/2) and it look like the

I checked the .xsession-errors but the didn't see any error messages.

Also checked the var/log/message but I am not sure what to make of it.

Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): SIGHUP received, reloading
all databases
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): Resolved address
"xml:readonly:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory" to a read-only
configuration source at position 0
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): Resolved address
"xml:readwrite:/root/.gconf" to a writable configuration source at
position 1
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): Resolved address
"xml:readonly:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults" to a read-only
configuration source at position 2
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): Resolved address
"xml:readonly:/var/lib/gconf/debian.defaults" to a read-only
configuration source at position 3
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): Resolved address
"xml:readonly:/var/lib/gconf/defaults" to a read-only configuration
source at position 4
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): GConf server is not in use,
shutting down.
Dec 14 11:40:33 Quoll gconfd (root-3661): Exiting

My system is the following:
Asrock 939Dual-Vsta
Athlon 64 X2 3800
2 x 512 DDR PC3200 (Single Mode)
2 X Western Digital 250GB Sata HDD
ATI X800 XT PE AGP

How can I identify what the problem is?


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Re: A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[Douglas Tutty]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:27:09PM -0400, D G Teed wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I'm a sysadmin of the Unix half of a small University
> main server room.  Recently we have been trying to
> decide on a replacement for FreeBSD for 14 servers.
> 
> I favor Debian, however I can't make that decision on
> my own.  I found it was a challenge to convince
> others in the decision making process that Debian
> is solid and here to stay when the Dunc Tanc causes
> the Weekly News to drop out of consistent appearance.
> I know there are alternate sources of information, but
> one must consider that non-Linux users are amongst
> the visitors of the Debian project web site.
> 
[...] 
> If there are other users who also feel this issue has degraded the
> appearance of the Debian project and its web site, you might share
> your view.

Whats a Dunc Tanc?

News I get from the announce mailing list and web-site appearance isn't
much of an issue since I access it via lynx.

I agree that the early part of the debian learning curve (especially if
one is not from a *N*X background) is very steep.  I think there should
be a great big huge button "If you're new to Linux or this web page
makes no sense to you CLICK HERE" where you get a great intro tutorial
on things debian.  Perhaps such a tutorial should be the main debian
page with a link "Enter Main Debian site" to get to the current main
page.

Doug.



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Re: VCD no go with MPlayer.

[Brian Durant]

Hi Sven,

On 12/14/06, Sven Arvidsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 19:04 +0100, Brian Durant wrote:
> > I don't really understand what it is you're trying to do and what goes
> > wrong? For example, what are you trying to accomplish with sox?
>
> I am a newbie... I just follow the instructions :-) I hope I didn't do
> anything wrong.

Hi,

No, you didn't do anything wrong, I would blame debianhelp.co.uk for
providing outdated and confusing information ;-)

In their guide, they seem to capture a Windows Media Audio stream, and
convert it to Ogg Vorbis using sox, not really related to getting
MPlayer configured...

> > How is mplayer set up on your system, what video output and audio
> > outputs are selected? Have you done any configuration yourself?
>
> MPlayer is setup the way it came when I got the package (plus libs)
> with Synaptic. Unless there was something in the above that you would
> call configuration...

[snip]

> > I would first try this,
> >  mplayer -vo xv,x11 vcd://3
> > and see if I get any visible video, and later worry about sound.
>
> Wow, I've got video. No sound, but hey it's a start. I can't get video
> with the GUI, however. In GUI I get the following:
>
> "Error opening/initializing the selected video_out (-vo) device."

Good, as for the GUI, it's not something I'm familiar with, but I would
guess there is a way to make these settings somewhere?

Do you know what kind of sound drivers you use (OSS or ALSA?) and if
your system is set up with some kind of sound server (esd, arts, pulse
etc?). MPlayer support them if all, so it's mostly a matter of trial and
error if you're not sure what you're using.

Try to start mplayer with -ao oss, -ao alsa, -ao esd or -ao arts etc, an
see if anything works. I guess you could also try with a comma separated
list, -ao alsa,oss,esd,arts.


The below works fine:

$ mplayer -ao esd  vcd://6

I added '-ao esd' to the .mplayer/config file and now 'mplayer
vcd://6' now returns the following:

$ mplayer vcd://6
MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
Option -ao needs a parameter at line 2

The GUI just crashes now. I have looked at the man pages, but as a
newbie I think it is often difficult wrapping my head around the
syntax of the files. I have understood enough that it is possible to
in some fashion write a seperate file like a "vcd.conf" to
.mplayer/config. I think this would be a good idea as it seems to set
a specific VCD configuration. The problem is that I really don't
understand how to do it :-(


The manual page,
 man mplayer
provides lots of information, as do the "help" options,
 mplayer -ao help
 mplayer -vo help

When you have found a working setup, you can put these options in the
configuration file, I think it's .mplayer/config in your home directory.

I hope this helps, and I haven't made things more confusing for you,
MPlayer is quite powerful, but it has a myriad of options :-)

--
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22


Cheers,

Brian


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flashplayer9?

[Wulfy]

I got fed up with messages on sites saying "please update your 
flashplayer". so, not finding a deb for it, I googled and found this page;


http://wizah.blogspot.com/2006/10/debian-how-to-flash-9.html

I followed the instructions on that page, purged all the debs for 
flashplayer, installed the .so and restarted Firefox.


Firefox still insists it has the v.7 player.  It also says way down on 
about:config that it has the v.9 player.


Sites like  still say I 
have to update...


How do I get FF to forget about v.7???


--
Blessings

Wulfmann

Wulf Credo:
Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. 
Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between.

Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark.


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Re: Debian and VMWare

[Jeetu Golani]

Hey Chris,

Do you mean you're gonna be installing Terminal Services inside of the guest 
OS and other clients should be able to remote use from this?

Am not sure how this will perform within a virtual environment since this uses 
a virtual graphics adapter. Would appreciate it if you could write back and 
let us know how this works (or you could write back to me directly at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

In general if you have sufficient RAM on your system and follow what Robin has 
posted you should get very decent performance. I've used XP on my P4 2.2GHz 
with 512MB RAM and been very happy with the performance.

If you need help setting this up I'd be happy to help in any way.

Bye for now :)


On Wednesday 13 December 2006 16:38, Christian Christmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I plan to set up a Windows terminal server. In order
> to easily backup the entire Windows system, I plan to install
> Debian Sarge as base system, then VMWare and in VMWare
> the Windows OS.
>
> Will I get a decreased speed performance in the VMWare
> Windows or will the Microsoft OS run approximately with
> the same performance as when installed directly without Linux.
>
> May I run in other problems (or restrictions) with my
> Windows system when run in VMWare?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Chris


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A market perspective on the impact of dunc-tanc

[D G Teed]

Howdy,

I'm a sysadmin of the Unix half of a small University
main server room.  Recently we have been trying to
decide on a replacement for FreeBSD for 14 servers.

I favor Debian, however I can't make that decision on
my own.  I found it was a challenge to convince
others in the decision making process that Debian
is solid and here to stay when the Dunc Tanc causes
the Weekly News to drop out of consistent appearance.
I know there are alternate sources of information, but
one must consider that non-Linux users are amongst
the visitors of the Debian project web site.

It is small things about the web site for Debian which
make Debian look less maintained than it really is.
I understand the political tug of war the DWN editor
is involved in, but in the end, holding a gun to the head
of what you like isn't helping anything.  The missing DWN
is one missing piece of "product" continuity, and reading
the "why" just makes things worse.  The people involved
are shown to be struggling for their individual rights
on the same level as teenagers refusing to return
someones possessions until the other person returns
something they are missing (regardless of whether
they really need it).  Principled self-righteousness is
something that even 6 year olds can master (I have one).
Its absence in mature people is sometimes mistaken for
lack of awareness or apathy.

It would be great if snarls between perspectives of developers
had no impact on DWM and other aspects of Debian.  If a person
developing Debian truly loves what they are doing, the Dunc Tanc
should have no impact on what they are contributing either way.
One way to protest it is to ignore it and stick to the essentials.
It might seem insane, but there are people in the world
who plant crops while bullets and mines are real threats.
There is no point protesting when what you need to do
is ensure you have food to live on in the future.

It is the same with Debian.  It will only grow stronger with continued
efforts of volunteers.  If it woobles and appears like the project web
site of something much smaller, decision makers will not
trust Debian as a mature, robust and trustworthy source of
Linux and Linux applications.

So far, I have failed to convince other decision makers that
Debian deserves more roles in our server room, and we
are headed to adoption of Redhat.  Yes, it is insane that
decisions like this are made by someone with 20 minutes
of experience installing Linux, but that it how it is.  They
might have been more willing to consider my opinion
if Debian's web appearance, newsletters, etc. demonstrated
that Debian is backed by a "thousand plus" highly talented developers.

Typically when I have criticism of something open source, I hear
back retorts of "why don't you volunteer to fix it?".   I will answer
that right now.  It takes all kinds of people to make Debian a
success, not only people writing code and documentation.
I have contributed to open source projects where I've
had the time and talent to do so.  At the current stage
of my life I don't have the time to do more.  So my main role in
supporting it will be advocate, user, product demonstrator
and perhaps once in awhile, commenter.

If there are other users who also feel this issue has degraded the
appearance of the Debian project and its web site, you might share
your view.

--Donald

Re: Can't su to root after using the RC1 installer

[Max Hyre]

Joey Hess wrote:
> Actually, you're asked:
> 
>   If you choose not to allow root to log in, then a user account will be
>   created and given the power to become root using the 'sudo' command.
> 
>   Allow login as root?

   That'll teach me to slow down and read the fine print.  Sorry for the
 bother.

-- 
Best wishes,

 Max Hyre




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: VCD no go with MPlayer.

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 19:04 +0100, Brian Durant wrote:
> > I don't really understand what it is you're trying to do and what goes
> > wrong? For example, what are you trying to accomplish with sox?
> 
> I am a newbie... I just follow the instructions :-) I hope I didn't do
> anything wrong.

Hi,

No, you didn't do anything wrong, I would blame debianhelp.co.uk for
providing outdated and confusing information ;-)

In their guide, they seem to capture a Windows Media Audio stream, and
convert it to Ogg Vorbis using sox, not really related to getting
MPlayer configured...

> > How is mplayer set up on your system, what video output and audio
> > outputs are selected? Have you done any configuration yourself?
> 
> MPlayer is setup the way it came when I got the package (plus libs)
> with Synaptic. Unless there was something in the above that you would
> call configuration...

[snip]

> > I would first try this,
> >  mplayer -vo xv,x11 vcd://3
> > and see if I get any visible video, and later worry about sound.
> 
> Wow, I've got video. No sound, but hey it's a start. I can't get video
> with the GUI, however. In GUI I get the following:
> 
> "Error opening/initializing the selected video_out (-vo) device."

Good, as for the GUI, it's not something I'm familiar with, but I would
guess there is a way to make these settings somewhere?

Do you know what kind of sound drivers you use (OSS or ALSA?) and if
your system is set up with some kind of sound server (esd, arts, pulse
etc?). MPlayer support them if all, so it's mostly a matter of trial and
error if you're not sure what you're using.

Try to start mplayer with -ao oss, -ao alsa, -ao esd or -ao arts etc, an
see if anything works. I guess you could also try with a comma separated
list, -ao alsa,oss,esd,arts.

The manual page,
 man mplayer
provides lots of information, as do the "help" options,
 mplayer -ao help
 mplayer -vo help

When you have found a working setup, you can put these options in the
configuration file, I think it's .mplayer/config in your home directory.

I hope this helps, and I haven't made things more confusing for you,
MPlayer is quite powerful, but it has a myriad of options :-)

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: aptitutde: "untrusted versions of the following packages will be installed!"

[mess-mate]

Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Ryo wrote:
| >[...]
| >I did "aptitude update; aptitude dist-upgrade" when I got the error
| >(quoted in the subject of this message).  Does that mean that
| >"aptitude update" is different from "apt-get update" 
| >[...]
| >  
| I don't think so. It sounds like a problem with Aptitude's internal database. 
Aptitude 
| throws a wobbly if you use another package manager too. You can always check 
whether 
| Aptitude is sane by running "aptitude install -sf" first, and fix it by 
running "aptitude 
| keep-all" (see 
| 
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get).
| 
| -- 
| Chris.
| 
Sorry but 'There is currently no text in this page'

mess-mate   
-- 

Tomorrow, this will be part of the unchangeable past but fortunately,
it can still be changed today.


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Re: how to mount an encrypted usb pen drive?

[Mike McCarty]

Shrinivasan T wrote:

Friends.

My friend encrypted a usb pen drive (ScanDisk) using windows and gave me..
he told the password to me.


You need to ask your friend, most likely. I don't know
of any "standard" means to encrypt pen drives using
Windows. But that must be tempered by the fact that
I don't know all that much about Windows.


That drive has got some inbuilt software for encryption.


So, you need to get your friend to tell you how to do it,
or to unencrypt the drive. This sounds like even Windows
couldn't mount that thing and read it. He probably runs
some special driver which can find and read that thing,
and then prompt for a password. I suspect that, unless
you can get a version of that driver for Linux, you are
SOL. Or it might be a program which simply instructs the
drive to "open up".


All normal usb drives are automatically mounted in my debian box.


Of course.


My usb device is /dev/sda1.

But, this pen drive can not be accecible.
Can not mount this manually too.


Naturally.


How to mount an encrypted usb pen drive?


You need to get the software which knows how to instruct
the pen drive to "open up" or can unencrypt it.

Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!


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Re: Etch w/o icedove (OOPS!)

[Alexander Sack]

On Sat, Nov 25, 2006 at 05:32:06PM -0800, Marc Shapiro wrote:
> My mistake.  I was confusing icedove with iceweasel (which does not seem 
> to be ready for Etch, yet).  When I did 'aptitude hold thunderbird' 
> before the dist-upgrade then it did not try to install icedove.
> 

Just remember that not migrating to icedove might have negative
consequences on you ... for instance, you won't get security support
for it ... e.g. the thunderbird you put on hold already has open
security issues.

So, either go for mozilla.org thunderbird or go icedove.

 - Alexander

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 Alexander Sack | : :' :  The  universal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]| `. `'  Operating System
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Re: debian on an NAS server

[Greg Folkert]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 08:23 -0800, Tom Brown wrote:
> On Wednesday 13 December 2006 23:26, Tom Brown wrote:
> > During boot I hit
> > F2 to get to a menu which allows me to select the BIOS setup. It was
> > there I setup the first boot device to be the network. However, what I
> > missed in the menu was the option for re-installation. I need to select
> > that and everything should work correctly. I am going to try that first
> > thing tomorrow. I'll let the list know how it works out.
> 
> Well, I tried using the re-installation option from the F2 menu. It didn't 
> help. I still get PXELINUX to download and execute, but when it comes to 
> booting the kernel, it fails. Back to google for me. Or maybe Dell as someone 
> suggested.
Sorry for your problems, but I'd have to have one in front of me to get
it to work. On thing I have never used (the whole Powervault series for
example) its tough for me to finger the problems or to get the proper
working targets.

I know, it sucks, but one you get it done, document it. That way others
won't have such a hard time doing the same or similar things.

I live in Michigan, so unless you are close to Grand Rapids... I'd have
to say my odds of figuring out your conundrum is about nil.
-- 
greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

The technology that is
Stronger, better, faster:  Linux


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Re: smartctl on an USB disk

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Johannes Wiedersich wrote:

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

I can run smartctl on a SATA disk:

smartctl -d ata -A -v 194,unknown /dev/sda

but when I run it on a USB disk:

smartctl -d ata -A -v 194,unknown /dev/sdb

I get:

Smartctl: Device Read Identity Failed (not an ATA/ATAPI device)

But it *is* an ATA disk.

Anybody?


Bad news, to be found on smartctl's homepage
http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/#testinghelp

Johannes




Thanks Johannes, that's the bad news alright :-(

Hugo


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Re: VCD no go with MPlayer.

[Brian Durant]

Hi again Sven,

On 12/14/06, Sven Arvidsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 17:58 +0100, Brian Durant wrote:
> I still have issues with playing video on Debian Etch i386. I'll try
> to take this piecemeal and see if I can get the individual problems
> sorted out. When I try to run MPlayer from the command line, I get a
> number of various errors. I have tried to follow (among other things)
> Debian Help http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mplayer.htm It seems that
> there are either some libs missing in Etch or MPlayer is in
> transition??? Here is what I get when I try to follow the Debian Help
> advice - but without building MPlayer from scratch:

[snip]

> $ mplayer vcd://<1>
> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `1'
> $ mplayer vcd://
> MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
> CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
> CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
> Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
> Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
> Can't init input joystick
> mplayer: could not connect to socket
> mplayer: No such file or directory
> Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
>
> Playing vcd://.
> track 01:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:02:00  mode: 3
> track 02:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:27:00  mode: 3
> track 03:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:44:49  mode: 3
> track 04:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:53:56  mode: 3
> track 05:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  01:04:13  mode: 3
> track 06:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  01:32:54  mode: 3
> MPEG-PS file format detected.
> VIDEO:  MPEG1  352x288  (aspect 8)  25.000 fps  1151.6 kbps (144.0 kbyte/s)
> open: No such file or directory
> [MGA] Couldn't open: /dev/mga_vid
> open: No such file or directory
> [MGA] Couldn't open: /dev/mga_vid
> [VO_TDFXFB] Can't open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory.
> ==
> Opening video decoder: [mpegpes] MPEG 1/2 Video passthrough
> VDec: vo config request - 352 x 288 (preferred colorspace: Mpeg PES)
> Could not find matching colorspace - retrying with -vf scale...
> Opening video filter: [scale]
> The selected video_out device is incompatible with this codec.
> Try adding the scale filter, e.g. -vf spp,scale instead of -vf spp.
> VDecoder init failed :(
> Opening video decoder: [libmpeg2] MPEG 1/2 Video decoder libmpeg2-v0.4.0b
> Selected video codec: [mpeg12] vfm: libmpeg2 (MPEG-1 or 2 (libmpeg2))
> ==
> ==
> Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
> AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 224.0 kbit/15.87% (ratio: 28000->176400)
> Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
> ==
> alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1248:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
> failed: Device or resource busy
> alsa-lib: pcm_dmix.c:864:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
> alsa-init: playback open error: Device or resource busy
> Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound.
> Audio: no sound
> Starting playback...
> VDec: vo config request - 352 x 288 (preferred colorspace: Planar YV12)
> VDec: using Planar YV12 as output csp (no 0)
> Movie-Aspect is 1.30:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
> VO: [xv] 352x288 => 376x288 Planar YV12
> V:   7.3 134/134  2%  0%  0.0% 0 0
>
> Exiting... (End of file)
> $  mplayer vcd://
> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
> $ mplayer vcd://
> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'

I don't really understand what it is you're trying to do and what goes
wrong? For example, what are you trying to accomplish with sox?


I am a newbie... I just follow the instructions :-) I hope I didn't do
anything wrong.


Anyway,

This is wrong,
 mplayer vcd://

It should be,
 mplayer vcd://3

How is mplayer set up on your system, what video output and audio
outputs are selected? Have you done any configuration yourself?


MPlayer is setup the way it came when I got the package (plus libs)
with Synaptic. Unless there was something in the above that you would
call configuration...


The above output seems to indicate that MPlayer tries to use MGA and
then framebuffer for video output, and fails, audio output, with alsa,
also seems to fail.

I would first try this,
 mplayer -vo xv,x11 vcd://3
and see if I get any visible video, and later worry about sound.


Wow, I've got video. No sound, but hey it's a start. I can't get video
with the GUI, however. In GUI I get the following:

"Error opening/initializing the selected video_out (-vo) device."


--
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22


Cheers,

Brian


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Re: How do I get NFS locking to work?

[hendrik]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 12:18:27PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How do I get NFS locking to work?  (And why doesn't it "just work" 
> anyway?)
> 
> I am unable to use monotone properly over an NFS mount because it very 
> sensibly tries to lock its repository before modifying it.
> 
> My only clue to the problem is messages that keep being reported by 
> logcheck:
>  
> > Security Events
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
> > Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: lockd: failed to monitor 172.25.1.11
> > Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
> > Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: lockd: failed to monitor 172.25.1.11

These are messages from before I installed the new kernel yesterday.  
But I'm still getting them today:

Dec 14 12:21:56 lovesong kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
Dec 14 12:21:56 lovesong kernel: lockd: failed to monitor 172.25.1.11
Dec 14 12:31:35 lovesong kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
Dec 14 12:31:35 lovesong kernel: lockd: failed to monitor 172.25.1.11

The status-reports below were generated today. after yestarday's kernel 
upgrade.

-- hendrik

> 
> etc. etc.
> 
> I have not installed a firewall between the two machines.
> 
> The server is 172.25.1.11, aka "april", an AMD-64 runnin etch (updated 
> yesterday)
> I have installed the nfs-kernel-server package, version 1:1.0.10-4
> 
> The client is 32-bet AMD machine running sarge.
> 
> Here's the output of some status-reporting commands, in case they might 
> be useful.  Should I provide anything else?
> 
> april:/farhome/hendrik# lsmod
> Module  Size  Used by
> iptable_filter  7808  0
> ip_tables  25192  1 iptable_filter
> x_tables   22024  1 ip_tables
> nfs   236216  0
> ipv6  285664  14
> nfsd  256200  17
> exportfs   10368  1 nfsd
> lockd  67600  3 nfs,nfsd
> nfs_acl 8320  2 nfs,nfsd
> sunrpc166984  13 nfs,nfsd,lockd,nfs_acl
> ppdev  14088  0
> lp 17736  0
> ide_generic 5760  0 [permanent]
> i2c_nforce212544  0
> i2c_core   27776  1 i2c_nforce2
> floppy 67112  0
> snd_hda_intel  23708  0
> snd_hda_codec 184192  1 snd_hda_intel
> psmouse44432  0
> tsdev  13056  0
> snd_pcm88968  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec
> snd_timer  29192  1 snd_pcm
> snd65256  4 
> snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer
> soundcore  15392  1 snd
> snd_page_alloc 14864  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
> parport_pc 41640  1
> parport44684  3 ppdev,lp,parport_pc
> serio_raw  12036  0
> pcspkr  7808  0
> evdev  15360  1
> reiserfs  231168  3
> dm_mirror  25216  0
> dm_snapshot20536  0
> dm_mod 62800  7 dm_mirror,dm_snapshot
> raid1  26880  1
> md_mod 82844  2 raid1
> ide_cd 45088  0
> cdrom  40488  1 ide_cd
> ide_disk   20608  7
> usbhid 45088  0
> sata_nv17412  0
> libata106784  1 sata_nv
> scsi_mod  152880  1 libata
> amd74xx19504  0 [permanent]
> forcedeth  46212  0
> generic10756  0 [permanent]
> ide_core  147584  5 
> ide_generic,ide_cd,ide_disk,amd74xx,generic
> ehci_hcd   36104  0
> ohci_hcd   24836  0
> thermal20240  0
> processor  38248  1 thermal
> fan 9864  0
> april:/farhome/hendrik#
> 
> 
> and output from rpcinfo:
> april:/farhome/hendrik# rpcinfo -p
>program vers proto   port
> 102   tcp111  portmapper
> 102   udp111  portmapper
> 132   udp   2049  nfs
> 133   udp   2049  nfs
> 134   udp   2049  nfs
> 132   tcp   2049  nfs
> 133   tcp   2049  nfs
> 134   tcp   2049  nfs
> 1000211   udp  32768  nlockmgr
> 1000213   udp  32768  nlockmgr
> 1000214   udp  32768  nlockmgr
> 1000211   tcp  54008  nlockmgr
> 1000213   tcp  54008  nlockmgr
> 1000214   tcp  54008  nlockmgr
> 151   udp905  mountd
> 151   tcp908  mountd
> 152   udp905  mountd
> 152   tcp908  mountd
> 153   udp905  mountd
> 153   tcp908  mountd
> 3910022   tcp642  sgi_fam
> 1000241   udp  32770  status
> 1000241   tcp  45918  status
> april:/farhome/hendrik#
> 
> 
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Re: Scilab in etch ?

[Johannes Wiedersich]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Scilab is not free software [1] and therefore cannot be included in
>>  debian proper, ever. Unless they change their license.
> 
> Ah, I see. Ok, but it once was in sarge, if I remember correctly and it is
> in unstable now (http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/scilab.html). Have
> they recently changed the license ?

Probably not. All *you* probably want to know is on that link:

- there are release critical bugs (doesn't build on alpha platform)
- etch is frozen, packages may only enter at the discretion of the
release managers.

> Confused,

Sorry, if I confused you. By 'debian' proper I mean the 'main archive'.
Scilab was/will be in 'non-free'.

Johannes


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Re: VCD no go with MPlayer.

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 17:58 +0100, Brian Durant wrote:
> I still have issues with playing video on Debian Etch i386. I'll try
> to take this piecemeal and see if I can get the individual problems
> sorted out. When I try to run MPlayer from the command line, I get a
> number of various errors. I have tried to follow (among other things)
> Debian Help http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mplayer.htm It seems that
> there are either some libs missing in Etch or MPlayer is in
> transition??? Here is what I get when I try to follow the Debian Help
> advice - but without building MPlayer from scratch:

[snip]

> $ mplayer vcd://<1>
> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `1'
> $ mplayer vcd://
> MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
> CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
> CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
> Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
> Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
> Can't init input joystick
> mplayer: could not connect to socket
> mplayer: No such file or directory
> Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
> 
> Playing vcd://.
> track 01:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:02:00  mode: 3
> track 02:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:27:00  mode: 3
> track 03:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:44:49  mode: 3
> track 04:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:53:56  mode: 3
> track 05:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  01:04:13  mode: 3
> track 06:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  01:32:54  mode: 3
> MPEG-PS file format detected.
> VIDEO:  MPEG1  352x288  (aspect 8)  25.000 fps  1151.6 kbps (144.0 kbyte/s)
> open: No such file or directory
> [MGA] Couldn't open: /dev/mga_vid
> open: No such file or directory
> [MGA] Couldn't open: /dev/mga_vid
> [VO_TDFXFB] Can't open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory.
> ==
> Opening video decoder: [mpegpes] MPEG 1/2 Video passthrough
> VDec: vo config request - 352 x 288 (preferred colorspace: Mpeg PES)
> Could not find matching colorspace - retrying with -vf scale...
> Opening video filter: [scale]
> The selected video_out device is incompatible with this codec.
> Try adding the scale filter, e.g. -vf spp,scale instead of -vf spp.
> VDecoder init failed :(
> Opening video decoder: [libmpeg2] MPEG 1/2 Video decoder libmpeg2-v0.4.0b
> Selected video codec: [mpeg12] vfm: libmpeg2 (MPEG-1 or 2 (libmpeg2))
> ==
> ==
> Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
> AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 224.0 kbit/15.87% (ratio: 28000->176400)
> Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
> ==
> alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1248:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
> failed: Device or resource busy
> alsa-lib: pcm_dmix.c:864:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
> alsa-init: playback open error: Device or resource busy
> Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound.
> Audio: no sound
> Starting playback...
> VDec: vo config request - 352 x 288 (preferred colorspace: Planar YV12)
> VDec: using Planar YV12 as output csp (no 0)
> Movie-Aspect is 1.30:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
> VO: [xv] 352x288 => 376x288 Planar YV12
> V:   7.3 134/134  2%  0%  0.0% 0 0
> 
> Exiting... (End of file)
> $  mplayer vcd://
> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
> $ mplayer vcd://
> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'

I don't really understand what it is you're trying to do and what goes
wrong? For example, what are you trying to accomplish with sox? 

Anyway, 

This is wrong,
 mplayer vcd://

It should be, 
 mplayer vcd://3

How is mplayer set up on your system, what video output and audio
outputs are selected? Have you done any configuration yourself?

The above output seems to indicate that MPlayer tries to use MGA and
then framebuffer for video output, and fails, audio output, with alsa,
also seems to fail.

I would first try this, 
 mplayer -vo xv,x11 vcd://3
and see if I get any visible video, and later worry about sound.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part

How do I get NFS locking to work?

[hendrik]

How do I get NFS locking to work?  (And why doesn't it "just work" 
anyway?)

I am unable to use monotone properly over an NFS mount because it very 
sensibly tries to lock its repository before modifying it.

My only clue to the problem is messages that keep being reported by 
logcheck:
 
> Security Events
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
> Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: lockd: failed to monitor 172.25.1.11
> Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
> Dec 11 12:15:34 lovesong kernel: lockd: failed to monitor 172.25.1.11

etc. etc.

I have not installed a firewall between the two machines.

The server is 172.25.1.11, aka "april", an AMD-64 runnin etch (updated 
yesterday)
I have installed the nfs-kernel-server package, version 1:1.0.10-4

The client is 32-bet AMD machine running sarge.

Here's the output of some status-reporting commands, in case they might 
be useful.  Should I provide anything else?

april:/farhome/hendrik# lsmod
Module  Size  Used by
iptable_filter  7808  0
ip_tables  25192  1 iptable_filter
x_tables   22024  1 ip_tables
nfs   236216  0
ipv6  285664  14
nfsd  256200  17
exportfs   10368  1 nfsd
lockd  67600  3 nfs,nfsd
nfs_acl 8320  2 nfs,nfsd
sunrpc166984  13 nfs,nfsd,lockd,nfs_acl
ppdev  14088  0
lp 17736  0
ide_generic 5760  0 [permanent]
i2c_nforce212544  0
i2c_core   27776  1 i2c_nforce2
floppy 67112  0
snd_hda_intel  23708  0
snd_hda_codec 184192  1 snd_hda_intel
psmouse44432  0
tsdev  13056  0
snd_pcm88968  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec
snd_timer  29192  1 snd_pcm
snd65256  4 
snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer
soundcore  15392  1 snd
snd_page_alloc 14864  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
parport_pc 41640  1
parport44684  3 ppdev,lp,parport_pc
serio_raw  12036  0
pcspkr  7808  0
evdev  15360  1
reiserfs  231168  3
dm_mirror  25216  0
dm_snapshot20536  0
dm_mod 62800  7 dm_mirror,dm_snapshot
raid1  26880  1
md_mod 82844  2 raid1
ide_cd 45088  0
cdrom  40488  1 ide_cd
ide_disk   20608  7
usbhid 45088  0
sata_nv17412  0
libata106784  1 sata_nv
scsi_mod  152880  1 libata
amd74xx19504  0 [permanent]
forcedeth  46212  0
generic10756  0 [permanent]
ide_core  147584  5 
ide_generic,ide_cd,ide_disk,amd74xx,generic
ehci_hcd   36104  0
ohci_hcd   24836  0
thermal20240  0
processor  38248  1 thermal
fan 9864  0
april:/farhome/hendrik#


and output from rpcinfo:
april:/farhome/hendrik# rpcinfo -p
   program vers proto   port
102   tcp111  portmapper
102   udp111  portmapper
132   udp   2049  nfs
133   udp   2049  nfs
134   udp   2049  nfs
132   tcp   2049  nfs
133   tcp   2049  nfs
134   tcp   2049  nfs
1000211   udp  32768  nlockmgr
1000213   udp  32768  nlockmgr
1000214   udp  32768  nlockmgr
1000211   tcp  54008  nlockmgr
1000213   tcp  54008  nlockmgr
1000214   tcp  54008  nlockmgr
151   udp905  mountd
151   tcp908  mountd
152   udp905  mountd
152   tcp908  mountd
153   udp905  mountd
153   tcp908  mountd
3910022   tcp642  sgi_fam
1000241   udp  32770  status
1000241   tcp  45918  status
april:/farhome/hendrik#


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Re: Re: Audio player error (amarok)

[l]

alsaconf is the one giving the message

alsaconf

modinfo: snd-opl3sa2: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-cs4236: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-cs4232: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-cs4231: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-es18xx: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-es1688: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-sb16: no module by that name found
modinfo: snd-sb8: no module by that name found



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VCD no go with MPlayer.

[Brian Durant]

I still have issues with playing video on Debian Etch i386. I'll try
to take this piecemeal and see if I can get the individual problems
sorted out. When I try to run MPlayer from the command line, I get a
number of various errors. I have tried to follow (among other things)
Debian Help http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mplayer.htm It seems that
there are either some libs missing in Etch or MPlayer is in
transition??? Here is what I get when I try to follow the Debian Help
advice - but without building MPlayer from scratch:

$ mplayer
MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
Usage:   mplayer [options] [url|path/]filename

Basic options: (complete list in the man page)
-vo select video output driver ('-vo help' for a list)
-ao select audio output driver ('-ao help' for a list)
vcd://  play (S)VCD (Super Video CD) track (raw device, no mount)
dvd://  play DVD title from device instead of plain file
-alang/-slangselect DVD audio/subtitle language (by 2-char country code)
-ssseek to given (seconds or hh:mm:ss) position
-nosound do not play sound
-fs  fullscreen playback (or -vm, -zoom, details in the man page)
-x  -y set display resolution (for use with -vm or -zoom)
-sub   specify subtitle file to use (also see -subfps, -subdelay)
-playlist  specify playlist file
-vid x -aid yselect video (x) and audio (y) stream to play
-fps x -srate y  change video (x fps) and audio (y Hz) rate
-pp enable postprocessing filter (details in the man page)
-framedrop   enable frame dropping (for slow machines)

Basic keys: (complete list in the man page, also check input.conf)
<-  or  ->   seek backward/forward 10 seconds
down or up   seek backward/forward  1 minute
pgdown or pgup   seek backward/forward 10 minutes
< or >   step backward/forward in playlist
p or SPACE   pause movie (press any key to continue)
q or ESC stop playing and quit program
+ or -   adjust audio delay by +/- 0.1 second
ocycle OSD mode:  none / seekbar / seekbar + timer
* or /   increase or decrease PCM volume
x or z   adjust subtitle delay by +/- 0.1 second
r or t   adjust subtitle position up/down, also see -vf expand

* * * SEE THE MAN PAGE FOR DETAILS, FURTHER (ADVANCED) OPTIONS AND KEYS * * *

$ sox xstream.wav xstream.ogg
bash: sox: command not found
$ mplayer sox xstream.wav xstream.ogg
MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
Can't init input joystick
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

Playing sox.
File not found: 'sox'
Failed to open sox.


Playing xstream.wav.
File not found: 'xstream.wav'
Failed to open xstream.wav.


Playing xstream.ogg.
File not found: 'xstream.ogg'
Failed to open xstream.ogg.


Exiting... (End of file)
$ mplayer sox xstream.wav xstream.ogg
MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
Can't init input joystick
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

Playing sox.
File not found: 'sox'
Failed to open sox.


Playing xstream.wav.
File not found: 'xstream.wav'
Failed to open xstream.wav.


Playing xstream.ogg.
File not found: 'xstream.ogg'
Failed to open xstream.ogg.


Exiting... (End of file)
$ mplayer vcd://<1>
bash: syntax error near unexpected token `1'
$ mplayer vcd://
MPlayer 1.0rc1-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (Family: 15, Model: 2, Stepping: 9)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
Can't init input joystick
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

Playing vcd://.
track 01:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:02:00  mode: 3
track 02:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:27:00  mode: 3
track 03:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:44:49  mode: 3
track 04:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  00:53:56  mode: 3
track 05:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  01:04:13  mode: 3
track 06:  adr=1  ctrl=4  format=2  01:32:54  mode: 3
MPEG-PS file format detected.
VIDEO:  MPEG1  352x288  

Re: Scilab in etch ?

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 17:32 +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Scilab is not free software [1] and therefore cannot be included in
> debian proper, ever. Unless they change their license.

It's in non-free, but with RC bugs, and no version in testing, only
unstable.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22



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Re: Scilab in etch ?

[Johannes Wiedersich]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is there a chance that we will get scilab in etch ?
> We work quite a lot with it and it would be much nicer to install a .deb 
> then to install it from source...

Scilab is not free software [1] and therefore cannot be included in
debian proper, ever. Unless they change their license.

HTH,

Johannes

[1] http://www.scilab.org/legal/index_legal.php


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Re: debian on an NAS server

[Tom Brown]

On Wednesday 13 December 2006 23:26, Tom Brown wrote:
> During boot I hit
> F2 to get to a menu which allows me to select the BIOS setup. It was
> there I setup the first boot device to be the network. However, what I
> missed in the menu was the option for re-installation. I need to select
> that and everything should work correctly. I am going to try that first
> thing tomorrow. I'll let the list know how it works out.

Well, I tried using the re-installation option from the F2 menu. It didn't 
help. I still get PXELINUX to download and execute, but when it comes to 
booting the kernel, it fails. Back to google for me. Or maybe Dell as someone 
suggested.

Thanks,
Tom


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Re: smartctl on an USB disk

[Johannes Wiedersich]

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> I can run smartctl on a SATA disk:
> 
> smartctl -d ata -A -v 194,unknown /dev/sda
> 
> but when I run it on a USB disk:
> 
> smartctl -d ata -A -v 194,unknown /dev/sdb
> 
> I get:
> 
> Smartctl: Device Read Identity Failed (not an ATA/ATAPI device)
> 
> But it *is* an ATA disk.
> 
> Anybody?

Bad news, to be found on smartctl's homepage
http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/#testinghelp

Johannes


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Re: Debian 3.1r4: support for intel 82801 gb/gr/gh (ich7) serial ata storage controller?

[Douglas Tutty]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:26:24PM +0200, Nihtilan Dark wrote:
> Hello i would like to know if debian 3.1 r 4 supports intel 82801 gb/gr/gh
> (ich7) serial ata storage controller, because i tryied to install debian
> 3.1r3 2 months ago and it didn`t work. I will be waitting for your
> reply. Thank you.


Unknown.

Etch (current testing, now frozen, soon to be stable) probably does.

Doug.


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Re: aptitutde: "untrusted versions of the following packages will be installed!"

[Joey Hess]

Chris Lale wrote:
> I don't think so. It sounds like a problem with Aptitude's internal 
> database.

Incorrect, the error message was a standard apt message.

>Aptitude throws a wobbly if you use another package manager  too.

Misinformation.

-- 
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Scilab in etch ?

[Markus . Grunwald]

Hello,

Is there a chance that we will get scilab in etch ?
We work quite a lot with it and it would be much nicer to install a .deb 
then to install it from source...

cu

Markus Grunwald
Softwareentwicklung

PRÜFTECHNIK Condition Monitoring GmbH
Oskar-Messter-Straße 19-21
85737 Ismaning
www.pruftechnik.com
Tel: +49 (0)89 99616177
Fax: +49 (0)89 99616200

Re: Greetings and a minor rave!!

[hendrik]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 08:14:58AM -0500, Douglas Tutty wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 11:52:50PM -0600, Kent West wrote:
> > Douglas Tutty wrote:
> > > The biggest thing I've learned is to install things a bit at a time;
> > 
> > I'd agree with that.
> > 
> > > Lets say you choose aptitude, then you install that ...  Then I install 
> > > mc followed by lynx. Then ... documentation packages ... [then] exim4, 
> > > mailx, mutt, and fetchmail  The __last__ thing to install is X.
> > >   
> > 
> > But I usually install X and Icewm early on (just after lynx and ssh and
> > sudo); I likes me graphical environment, yeppers. Then I toss on the
> > fluff, KDE, OO.o, FF, T-Bird, etc.
> > 
> 
> The problem is that sometimes installing a package breaks X for some
> reason.  If you use a graphical app for package management, ensure that
> you can use a command line app when X breaks.

I usually install X early, since if that breaks and makes the system 
so unusable that reinstallation is advised, I'd like to find out early.

Of course I always do my package management in aptitude in the text 
console I get to with ctrl-alt-F1.

-- hendrik


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Re: dumb question about installing etch....

[Jon Dowland]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 08:34:00PM +, Michael Fothergill
wrote:
> If I wanted to install etch as a net install, how do I do
> this?

Unless you have good reasons to, don't. Time spent waiting
for the full CD-1 to download can be used constructively in
your current OS; time waiting for many of the same packages
to download during an install cannot.


-- 
Jon Dowland


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Re: Debian 3.1r4: support for intel 82801 gb/gr/gh (ich7) serial ata storage controller?

[Jon Dowland]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:26:24PM +0200, Nihtilan Dark
wrote:
> Hello i would like to know if debian 3.1 r 4 supports
> intel 82801 gb/gr/gh (ich7) serial ata storage controller,
> because i tryied to install debian 3.1r3 2 months ago and
> it didn`t work. I will be waitting for your reply. Thank
> you.

I don't think so. If you tried a default install (2.4 series
kernel), you could try again with a 2.6 series kernel (enter
"install26" at the prompt), but you might be better off
going for Etch now (currently "testing"), which will be
Debian 4.0 in the very near future.

I'm currently using Etch with this exact controller:

00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7
Family) Serial ATA Storage Controller IDE (rev 01)

You can get installation media from
 and the
install HOWTO from
.


-- 
Jon Dowland


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Debian 3.1r4: support for intel 82801 gb/gr/gh (ich7) serial ata storage controller?

[Nihtilan Dark]

Hello i would like to know if debian 3.1 r 4 supports intel 82801 gb/gr/gh
(ich7) serial ata storage controller, because i tryied to install debian
3.1r3 2 months ago and it didn`t work. I will be waitting for your
reply. Thank you.

Re: smartctl on an USB disk

[Jon Dowland]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 07:34:00AM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Smartctl: Device Read Identity Failed (not an ATA/ATAPI device)
> But it *is* an ATA disk.

I'd be interested in a solution for this, too. Yes, it's an
ATA disk, but the -d thing only works in the SATA case for
drivers supporting "ATA pass-through". I think that's only
the libata set of drivers.

So what you need is to find out what lower-level driver the
USB disk is using (It'll be usb-storage), and see if ATA
pass-through support is likely to be implemented there.

Initial searches suggest the likelyhood is slim. See e.g.
.


Yours,


-- 
Jon Dowland


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Re: python program installs/upgrades

[Andrew Malcolmson]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:02:47 -0500, "Kevin Coyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:
> 
> During a recent upgrade I watched the following scroll by:
> 
> ...
> Preparing to replace python-uno 2.0.4.dfsg.1-1 \
> (using .../python-uno_2.0.4.dfsg.2-1_i386.deb) ...
> INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'
> Unpacking replacement python-uno ...
> ...
> 
> 
> I'm running unstable, and if I execute 'pyversions --default' I get
> python2.4.
> 
> So why do I get the line above:
> 
> INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'
> 

Python-uno provides Python scripting for OpenOffice.  OpenOffice uses
Python 2.3 (and unfortunately seems there's no movement now to upgrade).

http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html
---
Andrew Malcolmson


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Hey

[3046381044]

Stephen

--

Mobile Email from a Cingular Wireless Customer http://www.cingular.com


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Re: Greetings and a minor rave!!

[Douglas Tutty]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 11:52:50PM -0600, Kent West wrote:
> Douglas Tutty wrote:
> > The biggest thing I've learned is to install things a bit at a time;
> 
> I'd agree with that.
> 
> > Lets say you choose aptitude, then you install that ...  Then I install mc 
> > followed by lynx. Then ... documentation packages ... [then] exim4, mailx, 
> > mutt, and fetchmail  The __last__ thing to install is X.
> >   
> 
> But I usually install X and Icewm early on (just after lynx and ssh and
> sudo); I likes me graphical environment, yeppers. Then I toss on the
> fluff, KDE, OO.o, FF, T-Bird, etc.
> 

The problem is that sometimes installing a package breaks X for some
reason.  If you use a graphical app for package management, ensure that
you can use a command line app when X breaks.

YMMV.

Doug.



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Re: installing package dependencies automatically

[Douglas Tutty]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:11:13AM -0500, mutsuura wrote:
> Hello all.
> 
> I'm brand new to Debian. I have some experience with package installtion 
> on SOLARIS systems.
> 
> On SOLARIS when I install a package w/ dependencies, the package installer 
> auto-magically detects this and prompts me if I want to install them as 
> well.
> 
> Is there a similar capability in any of Debian's package handlers: dpkg, 
> aptitude, etc...
> 
> Much thx and hope this (Debian) to be a "pleasant" experience.
 
You have your choice of package manager so choose carefully.  I know
aptitude so will discuss that.

Until (or because) you know what you're doing, use aptitude in the
interactive (not command-line) mode.  The first time you run it you need
to set a few things up then it will remember what you want:

Under options, set it to not install recommends or suggests, and
to automatically fix broken dependencies.

Go down the list of installed packages and using 'm' and 'M',
set those packages that you definatly want installed to manual
(no 'A' flag) and those you only want installed to meet
dependencies as automatica ('A' flag).

Hit 'g' and it will give you a proposed action, likely to remove
some packages (cruft) that were installed at some point but
aren't needed.  If this list inadvertantly includes a package
that you really want, mark it installed with '+' and anything
that it depends on will be installed with the 'A' flag set.

When you're happy with what it wants to do, hit 'g' again and it
will do what it says it will.

This is the only time you have to do this; I consider it part of doing
an install.

Periodically, when connected to the net, hit 'u' to update the list of
packages.  It will add a list of any available new and upgradeable
packages.  You can select the whole list with '+' on the list header
line.

When you want to add a new package, select it with '+'.  Dependant
packages will be marked to be installed with the 'A' flag.  For each
package, you can see what is recommended and suggested (see the policy
manual for what that means).  When you hit 'g', part of the list of
intended actions is a list of packages suggested and recommended by
others.  You can select from these what you want.  Hit 'g' again and it
does it.

There's a good aptitude user's manual, debian-reference, and the policy
manual for your reading pleasure.

Enjoy.

Doug.


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Re: Greetings and a minor rave!!

[Douglas Tutty]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 06:23:38AM -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * Douglas Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006 Dec 14 06:07 -0600]:
> 
> > Package management is the cornerstone to Debian.  The individual
> > packages are installed by dpkg but how they're selected, managed, and
> > have their dependancies resolved is the job of a package manager (that
> > then run dpkg on each package in the right order).  There's lots to
> > learn here.  Unless you go totally manual and just use dpkg you will
> > probably use apt to fetch packages so you should read the apt HOWTO and
> > the apt user's guide.  Then if you use a front-end to apt (aptitude, or
> > others) you should read the aptitude user's manual.  
> 
> I read a good paper last week on Debian.  It posited that everyone
> assumes that package management is the cornerstone of Debian, but it is
> really the policy behind the packaging system that keeps the system
> cohesive and allows it to work at all.  It further explained that other
> distributions copy or use apt, but miss on the policy aspect and soon
> fall apart, especially when upgrading.  I've even seen this on some
> Debian derivatives.

In my mind, I link package management with the policy.  On a recent
thread (it may have been this one but I don't recall) I suggested to a
debian newbie that after the install manual and debian reference, the
policy manual and FHS should be the third thing read to really
understand Debian.

To keep the analogy, package managment is the cornerstone; its what
the user sees.  Debian policy is the morter that holds everything
together.  One can build a stone wall without morter but unless you
build it differently it will fall apart.  

Doug.


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Re: dumb question about installing etch....

[Douglas Tutty]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 10:15:57AM +, Chris Lale wrote:
> Michael Fothergill wrote:
> >Dear Debianists,
> >
> >If I wanted to install etch as a net install, how do I do this?  On 
> >the installation web page there is a choice of a weekly snapshot or a 
> >daily built image.  The daily built image has a netinstall CD in it.
> >
> >Is there a netinstall CD for the weekly one?
> >
> >I have never tried to install Etch.
> 
> Did you download the Etch RC1 installer from 
> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/? Choose "netinst CD image 
> (100-150 MB)". Burn the ISO image to a CD. Boot from the CD and press F3 
> at the prompt. You can choose a curses-bases installer or a GUI 
> installer. The installer will install all the latest packages in Etch 
> directly from the repository. You will need a broadband connection.
> 
 
You don't _need_ a broadband connection.  You can even do it without any
connection at install time.  I'm on dial-up with a wonky phone line.
Rather than risk the install dying due to a failed line, I just do a
minimal install with the netinst.iso then install from within the
minimal system.

Doug.


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Re: apt-get with ftp proxy

[Ottavio Caruso]

sakya wrote:

> Dear Debianlists,
> 
> I want to use apt-get to install some software from the foreign
site,but
> I can not connect via
> ftp proxy,but I can download via the just proxy site.
> Why? and who can explain the "Acqure::ftp" section
> in apt.conf

http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/177



-- 
Ottavio Caruso

I will not purchase any computing equipment from manufacturers that recommend 
Windows Vista™ or any other Microsoft® products.
http://www.pledgebank.com/boycottvista


 

Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com


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Re: installing package dependencies automatically

[John Hasler]

Attila writes:
> On SOLARIS when I install a package w/ dependencies, the package
> installer auto-magically detects this and prompts me if I want to install
> them as well.

Automatic handling of dependencies is a key feature of Debian.  All of the
Apt front-ends (Apt-get, Synaptic, Aptitude) deal with dependencies
automatically.  Dpkg is the "core" package manager that Apt (a library)
uses to do the actual package installation.  It does not handle
dependencies (though it detects them): this is handled in Apt.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: .bash_profile ignored in X

[Yuwen Dai]

Hi RLH,

I think it's normal as .bash_profile is only for login shell.  When you open
a X terminal, it won't be read.  You can put your path info in .bashrc.

--
Yuwen

smartctl on an USB disk

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Hi,

I can run smartctl on a SATA disk:

smartctl -d ata -A -v 194,unknown /dev/sda

but when I run it on a USB disk:

smartctl -d ata -A -v 194,unknown /dev/sdb

I get:

Smartctl: Device Read Identity Failed (not an ATA/ATAPI device)

But it *is* an ATA disk.

Anybody?

Hugo


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.bash_profile ignored in X

[Russell L. Harris]

During configuration of another machine running Etch, I discovered
that .bash_profile appears to be ignored when logging into X.

Specifically, the problem is that the "~/bin" directory does not
appear in the path when, in an X terminal, I execute:

$ echo $PATH

However, when I switch over to a virtual terminal and as the same user
execute the same command, "~/bin" does appear in the path.

Double-checking, I find that the same thing now happens on this
machine.  

I suspect that a package upgrade caused the problem, because a
makefile which ran without error in an X terminal on this machine a
few weeks ago now fails because it cannot find a link which is in
"~/bin".  However, the file runs without error from a virtual terminal.

RLH


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Re: Greetings and a minor rave!!

[Nate Bargmann]

* Douglas Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006 Dec 14 06:07 -0600]:

> Package management is the cornerstone to Debian.  The individual
> packages are installed by dpkg but how they're selected, managed, and
> have their dependancies resolved is the job of a package manager (that
> then run dpkg on each package in the right order).  There's lots to
> learn here.  Unless you go totally manual and just use dpkg you will
> probably use apt to fetch packages so you should read the apt HOWTO and
> the apt user's guide.  Then if you use a front-end to apt (aptitude, or
> others) you should read the aptitude user's manual.  

I read a good paper last week on Debian.  It posited that everyone
assumes that package management is the cornerstone of Debian, but it is
really the policy behind the packaging system that keeps the system
cohesive and allows it to work at all.  It further explained that other
distributions copy or use apt, but miss on the policy aspect and soon
fall apart, especially when upgrading.  I've even seen this on some
Debian derivatives.

> I second the motion on mc.  When I do an install, I only put in the
> minimalist base system.  I make sure I've got aptitude and get it set
> up, then I install mc.  It can delve into tarballs, read html (and other
> formats with the right helper aps installed), provide a front-end to ftp
> and sftp, and includes a basic editor.  In fact, if I'm on a system too
> small for vim I can do 90% of my daily tasks out of mc on a terminal.  

Absolutely!  Midnight Commander should be part of the base install. 

Among the other cool things mc can do is allow you to "look" into a
.deb archive by hitting  when the filename is highlighted, then
scrolling down until INSTALL is highlighted and hitting  again. 
It will run dpkg -i on the package.  Of course, no dependency
resolution is done, but it's an easy way to install a one-off package. 
If you don't want to install the package, you can nagivate the files
the package contains, perhaps browse docs, etc.

It is truly the Swiss Army Chainsaw of system administration.

- Nate >>

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python program installs/upgrades

[Kevin Coyner]

During a recent upgrade I watched the following scroll by:

...
Preparing to replace python-uno 2.0.4.dfsg.1-1 \
(using .../python-uno_2.0.4.dfsg.2-1_i386.deb) ...
INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'
Unpacking replacement python-uno ...
...


I'm running unstable, and if I execute 'pyversions --default' I get
python2.4.

So why do I get the line above:

INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'

Is this something I need to change somewhere in my configurations?

Thanks
Kevin

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signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: [Ilugc] how to mount an encrypted usb pen drive?

[Girish Venkatachalam]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 03:53:24PM +0530, Shrinivasan T wrote:
> Friends.
> 
> My friend encrypted a usb pen drive (ScanDisk) using windows and gave me..
> he told the password to me.
> That drive has got some inbuilt software for encryption.
> 
> All normal usb drives are automatically mounted in my debian box.
> 
> My usb device is /dev/sda1.
> 
> But, this pen drive can not be accecible.
> Can not mount this manually too.
> 
> How to mount an encrypted usb pen drive?

Oops! I think I have some bad news here. It is not possible.

The good news however is that I may be wrong as I have no clue what Windoze 
encryption scheme is being employed here. :)

Perhaps my ignorance may give you hope.

Or googling.

Is it some sort of encrypted file system?

regards,
Girish


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Re: dumb question about installing etch....

[Russell L. Harris]

* Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [061214 04:26]:
> Michael Fothergill wrote:
> >Dear Debianists,
> >
> >If I wanted to install etch as a net install, how do I do this?  On 
> >the installation web page there is a choice of a weekly snapshot or a 
> >daily built image.  The daily built image has a netinstall CD in it.
> >
> >Is there a netinstall CD for the weekly one?
> >
> >I have never tried to install Etch.

In general, every image has an installer.  To the best of my
knowledge, there is no "network installer" as such; rather, the
installer allows installation from the network or from CD, the choice
being made by the user performing the installation.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, the installer is not
release-specific.  After you boot from the first CD, you are free to
make the installation from CDs corresponding to any build, or (if
doing a netinstall) from the build currently in the Debian archives.

If you already have downloaded the ISO image for the first CD of Etch,
you can burn a CD and do a netinstall from that CD; you don't need a
netinstall CD.  

The advantage of using a netinstall CD:

(1) The ISO image is smaller, so it takes less time to download.

(2) It may provide a later version of the Etch installer; read the
release notes.

A while back, I downloaded (with jigdo) a set of ISO images, burned
the image first to CD, and, at the end of the installation, discovered
that the installer was broken and that the installation could not be
completed.  The work-around was to revert to the previous set of CD
images, and thus, the previous version of the installer.  

RLH


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how to mount an encrypted usb pen drive?

[Shrinivasan T]

Friends.

My friend encrypted a usb pen drive (ScanDisk) using windows and gave me..
he told the password to me.
That drive has got some inbuilt software for encryption.

All normal usb drives are automatically mounted in my debian box.

My usb device is /dev/sda1.

But, this pen drive can not be accecible.
Can not mount this manually too.

How to mount an encrypted usb pen drive?

thanks.
T.Shrinivasan.


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Re: dumb question about installing etch....

[Chris Lale]

Michael Fothergill wrote:

Dear Debianists,

If I wanted to install etch as a net install, how do I do this?  On 
the installation web page there is a choice of a weekly snapshot or a 
daily built image.  The daily built image has a netinstall CD in it.


Is there a netinstall CD for the weekly one?

I have never tried to install Etch.


Did you download the Etch RC1 installer from 
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/? Choose "netinst CD image 
(100-150 MB)". Burn the ISO image to a CD. Boot from the CD and press F3 
at the prompt. You can choose a curses-bases installer or a GUI 
installer. The installer will install all the latest packages in Etch 
directly from the repository. You will need a broadband connection.


Have a look at section 4.2 in 
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Installing_Debian_on_a_small_partition 
for what to expect for a network install for Sarge - Etch is similar.


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Chris.


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installing package dependencies automatically

[mutsuura]

Hello all.

I'm brand new to Debian. I have some experience with package installtion 
on SOLARIS systems.


On SOLARIS when I install a package w/ dependencies, the package installer 
auto-magically detects this and prompts me if I want to install them as 
well.


Is there a similar capability in any of Debian's package handlers: dpkg, 
aptitude, etc...


Much thx and hope this (Debian) to be a "pleasant" experience.

Attila


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Re: apt-get with ftp proxy

[Liam O'Toole]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:24:14 +
Liam O'Toole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:12:41 +0800
> sakya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Debianlists,
> > 
> > I want to use apt-get to install some software from the foreign
> > site,but I can not connect via
> > ftp proxy,but I can download via the just proxy site.
> > Why? and who can explain the "Acqure::ftp" section
> > in apt.conf
> > 
> > 
> 
> I've never used the Acquire::ftp section of apt.conf. Instead, I set
> the http_proxy and ftp_proxy environment variables like in this
> example:
> 
> export http_proxy=http://localhost:3128
> export ftp_proxy=$ftp_proxy
> apt-get update
> apt-get install ...
> 

Sorry, that second line should read

export ftp_proxy=$http_proxy

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Liam


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Re: aptitutde: "untrusted versions of the following packages will be installed!"

[Chris Lale]

Ryo wrote:

[...]
I did "aptitude update; aptitude dist-upgrade" when I got the error
(quoted in the subject of this message).  Does that mean that
"aptitude update" is different from "apt-get update" 


[...]
  
I don't think so. It sounds like a problem with Aptitude's internal 
database. Aptitude throws a wobbly if you use another package manager 
too. You can always check whether Aptitude is sane by running "aptitude 
install -sf" first, and fix it by running "aptitude keep-all" (see 
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get).


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