how to filter out testing or stable from installed package

[H.H. Ding]

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hi list

I config my sources list both in stable and testing, now I want to know
which package installed on my host is from stable and with is from
testing. How can I know it?

many thanks.

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Re: Syncable finance app?

[John Miller]

Dave Thayer wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 02:15:56AM -0500, John Miller wrote:
>   
>> There are plenty of personal finance applications out there for Linux 
>> (GNUCash, gAcc, etc.), but with all of them, you must make entries on your 
>> PC.  When I eat out at a restaurant, I'd like to be able to enter the 
>> amount of the bill, plus a little note, in my Palm IIIxe (yes, I know--it's 
>> dated), which will then automatically update my check register.  I'd also 
>> like to be able to sync this information to my Linux desktop, 
>> adding/editing transactions as necessary.
>> 
>
> You might have a look at Freecoins .
> It has a export module to create CSV and QIF. I have tried it but not
> used it very much because I'm not really organized enough to use such
> a program.
>
> dt
>
>   
Thanks Dave.  Downloaded and installed it yesterday.  Just now digging
into it, but the documentation is excellent--a bit plus over pcash.

Thanks again to everyone who responded.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

--John


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Re: apt-get mirrors

[David Fox]

On 12/5/07, Iuri Sampaio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
>  deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US etch/non-US main contrib

There hasn't been a non-us repository in debian for quite some time.
As such, I would simply remove that second line entirely.

You may have better luck substituting ftp for http in your sources
list lines for debian as well.


> non-free
>  deb http://security.debian.org etch/updates main contrib non-free

If you want things to succeed, I don't think you can have a 'non-free'
line standing by itself like that; precede it with a '#' (comment).

>  deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
>  deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US etch/non-US main contrib
> non-free

Same comment applies - remove non-US.

> if there isn't anything wrong with mirrors, does anyone have a good one?
> iuri

Generally, if you're not in the US, then change it to the mirror for
your home country. There is a list of mirrors but I'm not familiar
with them - or if some are markedly better in throughput than others
and just as complete and updated (that helps as well).

Back in the days when I was running Mandrake (aka Mandriva) I would
tend to use either a norwegian or swedish mirror - those gave good
throughput, as fast as my 1.5 mbps dsl link could handle. But I
normally would do updates when I got home from work, which would be
about 6-7PM Pacific time, and as such in the wee hours of the morning
at the ftp site - so less traffic.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 07:39:28PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
 
> Very nice. I'll be trying this when I get home; Although before I
> attempt this I'll probably attempt to install OpenBSD on my other
> laptop -- But that's a whole 'nother story.

Big hint:  read the OpenBSD faq from the website (grab it with wget:

wget -c -k -r -p -np -I /faq -X 
/faq/de,/faq/pf/de,/faq/fr,/faq/pf/fr,/faq/nl,/faq/pf/nl,/faq/pl,/faq/pf/pl,/faq/pt,/faq/pf/pt
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html

This limits the recursion to stick to the faq on the website.

Its available as pdf but its not kept as up-to-date.

Of course, the best way to install OpenBSD is to spend the $50 and by a
CD set.  You should still read the faq.

The installer acts as a weed-eater: it weeds out users who don't read
the docs.  If you don't read, the partioner will kill you.  Everything
in the install is text based and quasi command-line.  Its small and very
fast once you understand it (full install in about 3 minutes except for
disk I/O time).

If you really like OpenBSD, get the one book on it: Absolute OpenBSD by
Nostarch press.

Doug.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 04:15:43AM +0100, s. keeling wrote:
> David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 
> >  On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > > Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
> > > Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover.  You just
> > > have to wrap everything in a try block.  So if you're getting error
> > > messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.
> > 
> >  Fair enough.  It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've  
> >  used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that  
> >  programming language.
> 
> You're not alone wrt python problems.  My latest run-in was with
> sarplot, which looks like it would be a great tool.  It's on
> Sourceforge, it ran on Redhat at one time ...  The Python manner of
> parsing env vars has since changed, and now sarplot is irretrievably
> broken, apparently.  Damn.  Perfectly good software, into the dustbin.
> 

It must have been written for one version and subsequent versions don't
work right.  Either run it under the old python, or just change the
couple of lines that grab the env vars.  You've go the source since
python is a scripting language.

Doug.


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Re: exim4 config - what EXACTLY is "final destination"

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 06:21:26PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:47:33PM -0600, Bob Goldberg wrote:
> > running debian etch w/ exim 4.
> > 
> > I want to setup exim to receive internet email, and accept/relay ONLY emails
> > to a recipient listed in a text file, on to my exchange server. It will not
> > send any outbound email.
> 
> I think I've figured out how to do this. more below.
> 
snipping some stuff...


this part is wrong. 

> 
> accept local_parts = ${lookup{$local_part}lsearch{/path/to/recipient-file}}
>domains   = +relay_to_domains

it needs to be 

accept domains = +relay_to_domains
   endpass
   verify = recipient

that verify line will cause exim to look through all the routers for
one that will accept it and if it finds one, then it accepts it. 

this acl stanza exists in the default config already. :-)


Then this router needs to be changed:

> 
> begin routers
> 
> # this router, the only router, sends all accepted mail to the
> # exchange_smtp transport
> exchange_router:
>   driver = manual
>   domains = *
>   transport = exchange_smtp
> 

to

exchange_router:
driver = manualroute # not manual!
data = ${lookup{$local_part}lsearch{/path/to/recipient-file}}
transport = exchange_smtp

you don't need a 'fail' part (other thread) because since this router
won't match, and the ACL above will deny it. I think. 

hth

A


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 04:58:59PM +0100, Martin Marcher wrote:
> On 12/4/07, andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ls -l /sbin is all
> >
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   ...
> 
> I understand this issue. What I don't get is why it seems to be the
> overall default that others may read and execute files in most cases.
> 
> To me it would make sense to have something like (very naive right
> now, hope you get the idea):
> 
> /bin root:users rwxr-x---
> /sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
> /usr/bin root:users rwxr-x---
> /usr/sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
> 
> and so on. Using acl's it would be very easy to add even more groups.
> I think the explicit adding of others would make a lot of sense and
> secure the system in a standard way.
> 
> I guess it's more a historical reason that others can r+x most of the
> system but I can see a lot of benefits in denying others by default
> (of course there's a lot of work involved to migrate from the current
> permission schema that's at least a serious drawback)
> 
> What do you think?

You'll get all the rationale for the unix way of doing things.  However,
in all Unix contexts, the highest threat is from someone with shell
access.  An attacker ultimatly wants root.  Usually the best way to get
that is to get a regular user access first.  So the first rule is to
only give user access to people you trust (or people you can dicipline).

The difficulty is most acute with public access "kiosk" systems.  Review
the archives for discussions on all the hoops through which admins must
jump to provide any hope of security.

Thus, its safe to say, that for any unix, there must be some trust of
shell users or security is breached.  Chroots and VM's on i386/amd64
hardware aren't an answer either.  The only alternative in unix is to
give user's a custom app from which they can't escape which will only do
what you want them to do.

I don't know if OpenBSD has any other tricks under the hood to protect
the system from a milicious but legitimate shell user.

The only other option is to get out of unix and go to something like
OS/400 or OpenVMS.  I'm shaky on the details of those systems, but I
think you create task groups, add users and file-like thingies and
applications and it keeps them separate from other task groups.  Much of
the support for this seperation is at the hardware level (AS/400,
mainframe, etc) and can't be done on normal unix boxes.

Doug.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 09:17:15AM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:
> 
> On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> >Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
> >Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover.  You just
> >have to wrap everything in a try block.  So if you're getting error
> >messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.
> 
> Fair enough.  It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've  
> used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that  
> programming language.

Yeah, I know.  I have most problems with GUI apps written in python.  So
many potential errors and people don't trap.  It comes down to the
programmer's philosophy.  They don't do trys and decision trees to get
it to run faster.  OTOH, I try to write bomb-proff software.  If I want
it to run faster, I rewrite it in Ada, which makes it fairly easy to
write safer software.

Doug.


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Re: exim - what is it? (how does it run)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 06:26:38PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> At the end of all this research, I STILL find myself trying to
> diagnose why my router isn't working; and it's a pretty darn simple
> router at that. getting useful error messages out of exim debug is
> worthless.
> 
> So I thought, if I can run a simulation of whatever exim does, maybe I
> could stop in the middle & see just what's going on.
> 
> I thought my question was very specific.
> What language is the exim conf file written for?
> is it perl, or is it an exim-specific language.
> 
> ie: the command line [from my router] is:
> data = [EMAIL PROTECTED]/etc/exim4/email-accept}
> {:fail: User unknown }}
> 
> what interpreter can I execute this line of code in to see what the
> heck it's doing?
> I can't lookup the proper syntax of the lookup command if I don't know
> the language it's based in.
> 
> Here is what exim -debug says:
> lookup yielded: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:  << this IS a valid email, and
> lsearch FOUND it. so far so good.
> expanded: :fail: User unknown << WHY does my statement expand
> to failure
> file is not a filter file << what file isn't a
> filter file, and what does that really mean?

one of my lookups that has a fail in it has no colons (:) around
it and the fail is not in its own set of braces. try it like this:

 data =
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/etc/exim4/email-accept}fail}}

taking out the User unknown part. 

Don't ask me why... 

A


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[s. keeling]

David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>  On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
> > Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover.  You just
> > have to wrap everything in a try block.  So if you're getting error
> > messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.
> 
>  Fair enough.  It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've  
>  used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that  
>  programming language.

You're not alone wrt python problems.  My latest run-in was with
sarplot, which looks like it would be a great tool.  It's on
Sourceforge, it ran on Redhat at one time ...  The Python manner of
parsing env vars has since changed, and now sarplot is irretrievably
broken, apparently.  Damn.  Perfectly good software, into the dustbin.


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Re: exim - what is it? (how does it run)

[bobg . hahc]

On Dec 5, 8:00 pm, "Sergio Cuéllar Valdés" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 2007/12/5, Bob Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > What exactly IS exim?
>
> > IOW: when I setup sendmail, I'm working with bash scripts.
>
> > when I setup an exim conf file - what exactly runs it? perl?
>
> Hello,
>
> you should better read a lot =)   and make specific questions if you have.
>
> Best regards,
> Sergio Cuellar
>

Sergio,

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post.
For the past 5 days, i've been doing nothing but reading. I find most
of the doc's to be bloated files, with little in the way of practical
information.

At the end of all this research, I STILL find myself trying to
diagnose why my router isn't working; and it's a pretty darn simple
router at that. getting useful error messages out of exim debug is
worthless.

So I thought, if I can run a simulation of whatever exim does, maybe I
could stop in the middle & see just what's going on.

I thought my question was very specific.
What language is the exim conf file written for?
is it perl, or is it an exim-specific language.

ie: the command line [from my router] is:
data = [EMAIL PROTECTED]/etc/exim4/email-accept}
{:fail: User unknown }}

what interpreter can I execute this line of code in to see what the
heck it's doing?
I can't lookup the proper syntax of the lookup command if I don't know
the language it's based in.

Here is what exim -debug says:
lookup yielded: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:  << this IS a valid email, and
lsearch FOUND it. so far so good.
expanded: :fail: User unknown << WHY does my statement expand
to failure
file is not a filter file << what file isn't a
filter file, and what does that really mean?

Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[s. keeling]

Ralph Katz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  On 12/04/2007 05:19 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:04:47PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> On 12/04/07 15:09, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >>> What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
> >>> on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
> >>> backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
> >>> still go wrong.
> >>>
> >>> So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
> >>> pros and cons. Thanks!
> >> *Much* more information needed.
> > 
> > Sorry, I wasn't thinking.

Yeah, that's never happened here before.  :-)

> >> How much stuff?  50MB?  5GB?  500GB?  5TB?
> > 
> > 80GB HDD. It isn't full, of course, but that's the maximum (Currently
> > about 45 GB)
> > 
> >> How compressible is it?  Text/MySQL files or MP3s and JPGs?
> > 
> > I wouldn't know the answer to that questions.

Text compresses very well.  MP3s (?!?) and jpgs are already compressed
(or can't be compressed (much)).

> >> How important is it?  Your own stuff, or a business' stuff?
> > 
> > It's pretty important; It's my own stuff, it has all of my school work,
> > programming work, pictures, videos, and configuration files on it.
> 
>  Ron Johnson has asked some really good questions.  You may decide to use
>  multiple strategies for backup, depending on your various needs.
> 
>  For etch, I use duplicity, which compresses/encrypts incremental

And for added flavour, add in afio which will do all that duplicity
appears to do.  I consider it an upgrade of tar.


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Re: exim4 config - what EXACTLY is "final destination"

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:47:33PM -0600, Bob Goldberg wrote:
> running debian etch w/ exim 4.
> 
> I want to setup exim to receive internet email, and accept/relay ONLY emails
> to a recipient listed in a text file, on to my exchange server. It will not
> send any outbound email.

I think I've figured out how to do this. more below.

> 
> I've been having a heck of a time getting this to work. been trying to edit
> config files, make my own router etc...
> I'm thinking I shouldn't need to make my own router, just mod an existing
> one, but not sure which to use for sure

you're close. you can do this all with ACL's and then one simple router and
one simple transport for everything.

> (1) i'm dpkg-reconfig 'g and I'm being asked "should this machine consider
> itself the final destination".
> I'm not even 100% sure how to answer this stupid question. What EXACTLY IS
> the final destination?

"final destination" means that exim should take that mail and actually
stick it in users mailboxes. 

> is my debian box the final destination even though it will relay all email
> to an exchange server, and have NO "localhost" email boxes???

no

[snipping poor frustrated Bob...]

> So then, if I go to mod the exim.conf.template file - I have NO IDEA what to
> do in here, because it references all kinds of variables I know nothing (or
> next to) about!

exim.conf.template is a template file that debian's exim uses to build
a exim4.conf form on the fly. That's why there are all those wacky
variables. They get expanded into other variables in an actual
exim4.conf file (not really a file, I don't think, because it never
really exists on the system) that exim reads at startup. I think. heh.

I think you should stay away from dpkg-reconfigure for this one. Use
the example file /usr/share/doc/exim4/examples/example.conf.gz, unzip
it somewhere and look through it. 

here are the parts I think apply to your setup. 

sorry about the wrap
##
#MAIN CONFIGURATION SETTINGS #
##

# Specify your host's canonical name here. This should normally be the
  fully
# qualified "official" name of your host. If this option is not set,
  the
# uname() function is called to obtain the name. In many cases this
  does
# the right thing and you need not set anything explicitly.

primary_hostname = 


# The next three settings create two lists of domains and one list of
  hosts.
# These lists are referred to later in this configuration using the
  syntax
# +local_domains, +relay_to_domains, and +relay_from_hosts,
  respectively. They
# are all colon-separated lists:

domainlist local_domains = 

domainlist relay_to_domains = 

hostlist   relay_from_hosts = 

then scroll down to the acl's and look for 

accept local_parts = postmaster
   domains = +local_domains

you're going to make one similar to it:

accept local_parts = ${lookup{$local_part}lsearch{/path/to/recipient-file}}
   domains = +relay_to_domains

That says, accept the message if the local_parts (parts before the @)
are in the recipient-file AND the domain (part after the @) is in the
variable relay_to_domains you set above. So to accept mail for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] you need 'bob' in that file and relay_to_domains =
myco.com : fooco.com : barco.com etc... 

then put in a big fat deny for everything else:

deny message = relay not permitted

You can probably delete most of the other ACL stuff, but the comments
are good, so read them over. I would suggest you comment out the other
accept ones. Note, I have *NOT* tested that local_parts expression
above. I don't actually know if that works, but I think it does. You
will need a simple flat text file with the local_parts of your
recipients listed out. Make sure that exim4 can read it (chown
root:Debian-exim should do it).

That should take care of it on the acl side. 

Then you need a router and a transport. This gets tricky because I
don't know what you need (if anything) to authenticate to the exchange
server, but I'm going to assume its an unauthenticated smtp connection
on your secure lan.

begin routers

# this router, the only router, sends all accepted mail to the
# exchange_smtp transport
exchange_router:
driver = manual
domains = *
transport = exchange_smtp


begin transports

# this transport, the only transport, sends all routed mail to the
# exchange server.
exchange_smtp:
driver = smtp
hosts = 

This is heavily *NOT* tested, but maybe it helps you get going. 
 
> So - while I'm on my rant - what email server do SMART people run on debian
> (what should I be using)?

I'm told I'm smart and I run exim, but that's not necessarily a good
indicator.

;-)

A


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Michael Pobega]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:35:46PM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:
>
> On Dec 5, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:
>> tar cvvf foo.tar bar | ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat > foo.tar"
>>
>> Or am I doing it wrong (I most likely am)? I've never done any sort of
>> piping through SSH before, so any sort of help would be appreciated.
>
> You're close.  Try this:
>
> tar cvvf - bar | ssh -e none [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat >foo.tar"
>
> Using - as the filename tells tar to output to stdout.  "-e none" disables 
> SSH's escape character, making the session fully transparent -- otherwise 
> SSH will go into command mode if your tar output happens to contain a line 
> that starts with ~.
>

I am not able to test it out now, but I'd like to know if my script will
work.

The lines in question are:

aptitude search "~i!~M" | grep -v "i A" | awk '{print $2}' | ssh -e none [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] "cat >"$TIMEDIR/"aptitude.log"

$TAR -cvvf - /$FILE | ssh -e none [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat > "$TIMEDIR/$FILE.tar

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Re: exim - what is it? (how does it run)

[Sergio Cuéllar Valdés]

2007/12/5, Bob Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> i've spent DAYS trying to get exim to work to no avail.
>
> so let me start at the beginning.
>
> What exactly IS exim?
>
> IOW: when I setup sendmail, I'm working with bash scripts.
>
> when I setup an exim conf file - what exactly runs it? perl?


Hello,

you should better read a lot =)   and make specific questions if you have.

http://www.exim.org/

Best regards,
Sergio Cuellar


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Durch die Tage ohne Dich
Und die Liebe soll mich tragen
Wenn der Schmerz die Hoffnung bricht"


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exim - what is it? (how does it run)

[Bob Goldberg]

i've spent DAYS trying to get exim to work to no avail.

so let me start at the beginning.

What exactly IS exim?

IOW: when I setup sendmail, I'm working with bash scripts.

when I setup an exim conf file - what exactly runs it? perl?

Re: Can not read some messages with signature in mutt

[Michael Pobega]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 11:57:18PM +, Benjamin M. A'Lee wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 06:13:57PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 11:54:52PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 04:26:38PM +0100, Misko wrote:
> > >  
> > > > Just now I found new way to read Michael's emails:
> > > > first pressing 'v' to see attachment and than with enter I can
> > > > read his message. What I noticed with this process is that
> > > > Michael's messages has only one attachment:
> > > >   I 1  [text/plain, 
> > > > 7bit, 1.3K]
> > > > but all other signed emails has two attachments:
> > > >   I 1  [text/plain, quoted, 
> > > > us-ascii, 0.3K]
> > > >   I 2 Digital signature[applica/pgp-signat, 
> > > > 7bit, 0.2K]
> > > > 
> > > > Could this be the problem? But then I am puzzled why is it only me
> > > > who can not read his messages and rest of you can.
> > > 
> > > As far as I can tell, Michael is using 'inline' while most of us are 
> > > using 'mime'. Could you post your muttrc? Maybe there's some other 
> > > option affecting this. BTW, what mutt version are you using?
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Andrei
> > 
> > Hm, would me using inline be a problem? I use inline because I remember
> > reading that some mailing lists don't allow for any sort of attachment;
> > So I opted for the non-attachment version of GPG -- Should I be using
> > mime as my default?
> 
> AIUI, pgp-inline is deprecated in favour of pgp-mime; certainly, the
> Mutt manual strongly suggests that this is the case.
> 
>   Ben

I've changed my ~/.muttrc file, does it work now Misko?

-- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:35:46PM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:
>
> On Dec 5, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:
>> tar cvvf foo.tar bar | ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat > foo.tar"
>>
>> Or am I doing it wrong (I most likely am)? I've never done any sort of
>> piping through SSH before, so any sort of help would be appreciated.
>
> You're close.  Try this:
>
> tar cvvf - bar | ssh -e none [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat >foo.tar"
>
> Using - as the filename tells tar to output to stdout.  "-e none" disables 
> SSH's escape character, making the session fully transparent -- otherwise 
> SSH will go into command mode if your tar output happens to contain a line 
> that starts with ~.
>

Very nice. I'll be trying this when I get home; Although before I
attempt this I'll probably attempt to install OpenBSD on my other
laptop -- But that's a whole 'nother story.

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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=j5ZD
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Re: SUDO

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 09:10:45AM -0500, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 03, 2007 at 11:47:54AM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
>  
> > Using sudo the way Jostein suggested is just as open to problems as
> > logging in as root is, and should be avoided at all costs. Sudo was made
> > to save the user from hassle, for example, to play Wesnoth I need to
> > have access to the SDL framebuffer, but since you need to have root
> > permissions to access it I granted myself permissions just to Wesnoth.
> > 
> > pobega  ALL=NOPASSWD/usr/games/wesnoth
> > 
> > And aliased in my shell:
> > 
> > alias wesnoth   'sudo /usr/games/wesnoth'
> > 
> > So when I run `wesnoth`, the framebuffer is automagically started and
> > I'm granted root permissions just for this one operation.
> 
>   2.  Find an alternative to the SDL framebuffer.  Perhaps 
>   there's a permissions thing that could give members of 
>   a 'gaming' group or something access to the SDL.  Then 
>   the game could run under that normal user.
> 

This would be my choice. But like I said, I have no clue how to give a
user permissions to run the SDL framebuffer. None of the suggestions
have worked for me (At the moment I'm just using 

`startx /usr/bin/wesnoth -f`

To run the game.

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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Re: SUDO

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:51:29PM -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:10:45 -0500
> "Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > 3.  Choose a different game.
> 
> Can you recommend anything in Debian as good as Wesnoth? [Yes, Nethack
> is incomparable, but still ...]

I haven't played a computer game in some time.  The last was solpy
(solitare in python) and whatsit the civilization simulation.

In storage (with most of my stuff), I have my windows 3.1 floppies and
my Harpoon CD as well as (for Dos) F-119 Stealth Fighter, and Red Storm
Rising.  I had the priviledge way back when of playing RS and Harpoon
with an ex-CO of a cold-war attack sub.  Since I didn't know the same
rule book he studied (or the opposition's rule book either), he couldn't
predict what I'd do.  F-119 had a flaw: it expected that the pilot would
fly on auto-pilot (stuck at 500 ft) and standard cruise.  It didn't take
into account an increased RCS with the flaps down so I would fly the
whole mission with flaps down at just above landing speed (wheels up,
however) and nothing would see me.  Nothing like flying 20' above the
Lybian desert at 120 knots.

I also played Asteroid on OS/2.

If you really want to play your game, choose one of the other
suggestions.

Doug.


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Re: Can not read some messages with signature in mutt

[Benjamin M. A'Lee]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 06:13:57PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 11:54:52PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 04:26:38PM +0100, Misko wrote:
> >  
> > > Just now I found new way to read Michael's emails:
> > > first pressing 'v' to see attachment and than with enter I can
> > > read his message. What I noticed with this process is that
> > > Michael's messages has only one attachment:
> > >   I 1  [text/plain, 7bit, 
> > > 1.3K]
> > > but all other signed emails has two attachments:
> > >   I 1  [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 
> > > 0.3K]
> > >   I 2 Digital signature[applica/pgp-signat, 7bit, 
> > > 0.2K]
> > > 
> > > Could this be the problem? But then I am puzzled why is it only me
> > > who can not read his messages and rest of you can.
> > 
> > As far as I can tell, Michael is using 'inline' while most of us are 
> > using 'mime'. Could you post your muttrc? Maybe there's some other 
> > option affecting this. BTW, what mutt version are you using?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Andrei
> 
> Hm, would me using inline be a problem? I use inline because I remember
> reading that some mailing lists don't allow for any sort of attachment;
> So I opted for the non-attachment version of GPG -- Should I be using
> mime as my default?

AIUI, pgp-inline is deprecated in favour of pgp-mime; certainly, the
Mutt manual strongly suggests that this is the case.

Ben


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Michael Pobega wrote:

tar cvvf foo.tar bar | ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat > foo.tar"

Or am I doing it wrong (I most likely am)? I've never done any sort of
piping through SSH before, so any sort of help would be appreciated.


You're close.  Try this:

tar cvvf - bar | ssh -e none [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat >foo.tar"

Using - as the filename tells tar to output to stdout.  "-e none"  
disables SSH's escape character, making the session fully transparent  
-- otherwise SSH will go into command mode if your tar output happens  
to contain a line that starts with ~.



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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:33:25PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/05/07 15:26, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:21:20PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> On 12/05/07 10:12, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:29:03PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> [snip]
>  Plain old "date"?  No.  I prefer `date +%y%m%d.%H%M`.
> >>>
> >>> I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I want to
> >>> know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
> >>> aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
> >>> all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
> >>> mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
> >>> backup?
> >> Did you get the script I attached to the email you replied to?  It
> >> works like a champ for me.
> >>
> > 
> > I got it, but although that script may work for you it's too particular
> > of a use; I have a lot of files I need to backup, so it'd be better for
> > me to backup everything manually myself.
> > 
> > My shell script works, but I keep running out of disc space; Does anyone
> > know if there's a way I can transfer the file over to my other laptop
> > once it's done tarring (Effectively removing the need for a /backup dir
> > on my HDD?) Once I hit 13G on my root partition I run out of room.
> 
> Sure.  tar understands stdin/stdout, so pipe it across an ssh link.
> 

Something like:

tar cvvf foo.tar bar | ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] "cat > foo.tar"

Or am I doing it wrong (I most likely am)? I've never done any sort of
piping through SSH before, so any sort of help would be appreciated.

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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Re: Can not read some messages with signature in mutt

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 11:54:52PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 04:26:38PM +0100, Misko wrote:
>  
> > Just now I found new way to read Michael's emails:
> > first pressing 'v' to see attachment and than with enter I can
> > read his message. What I noticed with this process is that
> > Michael's messages has only one attachment:
> >   I 1  [text/plain, 7bit, 
> > 1.3K]
> > but all other signed emails has two attachments:
> >   I 1  [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 
> > 0.3K]
> >   I 2 Digital signature[applica/pgp-signat, 7bit, 
> > 0.2K]
> > 
> > Could this be the problem? But then I am puzzled why is it only me
> > who can not read his messages and rest of you can.
> 
> As far as I can tell, Michael is using 'inline' while most of us are 
> using 'mime'. Could you post your muttrc? Maybe there's some other 
> option affecting this. BTW, what mutt version are you using?
> 
> Regards,
> Andrei

Hm, would me using inline be a problem? I use inline because I remember
reading that some mailing lists don't allow for any sort of attachment;
So I opted for the non-attachment version of GPG -- Should I be using
mime as my default?

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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=DSym
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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[andy]

Bill Smith wrote:

andy wrote:

David Brodbeck wrote:


On Dec 5, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Michael Pobega wrote:


I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I 
want to

know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
backup?


The answer is, "it depends."  How much custom configuration have you 
done?  How fast does the system need to be back in service?


For desktop machines that have basically stock installations, I 
often only back up /home and /etc, plus maybe /var/www if the 
machine has a web server.  I don't see any point in using up space 
backing up binaries that I can easily reinstall from the Debian 
CDs.  But on a system where I've built lots of local software or 
done lots of custom scripting, backing up the binaries makes more 
sense.


Excluding /tmp and /var/tmp makes sense.  So does excluding data 
caches -- /var/cache/apt, your squid cache directory if you're 
running squid, maybe even web browser caches if you're pinched for 
space.  On systems that run udev, backing up /dev is also fruitless, 
although it doesn't really take up much space.  And you should 
always exclude /proc.  It's not a "real" filesystem anyway.



Just to wade in here, since the OP has asked a question that is also 
topical for me now:


I'd be wanting to do a back-up from my own machine to an external USB 
HDD as well as from a second machine connected to the LAN, both using 
Debian. I would want to save a back up of /home and /etc initially 
and then a weekly incremental back up of anything that has changed in 
the meantime. I don't need the encryption and don't really need the 
compression (the USB HDD is 500GB which can easily swallow both of 
the HDDs being backed up).


A number of suggestions as to the best program to use for backing up 
have been made, but many sound like they are overkill for my 
purposes. All I would need is something simple (like me :) ) and 
reliable. Any recommendations for this purpose?
I use rsback, which is just a very handy backend to rsync, it produces 
incremental backups
from the main server, 2 samba shares and all the homes with the imap 
mail to a second server
it is backed up onto another samba share on the second machine, so the 
people in the office

can they copy it off onto external drives to take home.
I just run it through a series of cron jobs every night, no problems 
at all.

HTH




Thanks

Andy





Thanks Bill - as I stated, I want something that is straightforward and 
will do incremental back ups, so if this does the trick then I will 
experiment with both rsync as well as with rsback.


Many thanks

Andy

--

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answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"


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Re: Can not read some messages with signature in mutt

[Andrei Popescu]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 04:26:38PM +0100, Misko wrote:
 
> Just now I found new way to read Michael's emails:
> first pressing 'v' to see attachment and than with enter I can
> read his message. What I noticed with this process is that
> Michael's messages has only one attachment:
>   I 1  [text/plain, 7bit, 
> 1.3K]
> but all other signed emails has two attachments:
>   I 1  [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 
> 0.3K]
>   I 2 Digital signature[applica/pgp-signat, 7bit, 
> 0.2K]
> 
> Could this be the problem? But then I am puzzled why is it only me
> who can not read his messages and rest of you can.

As far as I can tell, Michael is using 'inline' while most of us are 
using 'mime'. Could you post your muttrc? Maybe there's some other 
option affecting this. BTW, what mutt version are you using?

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/05/07 15:26, Michael Pobega wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:21:20PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 12/05/07 10:12, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:29:03PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> [snip]
 Plain old "date"?  No.  I prefer `date +%y%m%d.%H%M`.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I want to
>>> know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
>>> aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
>>> all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
>>> mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
>>> backup?
>> Did you get the script I attached to the email you replied to?  It
>> works like a champ for me.
>>
> 
> I got it, but although that script may work for you it's too particular
> of a use; I have a lot of files I need to backup, so it'd be better for
> me to backup everything manually myself.
> 
> My shell script works, but I keep running out of disc space; Does anyone
> know if there's a way I can transfer the file over to my other laptop
> once it's done tarring (Effectively removing the need for a /backup dir
> on my HDD?) Once I hit 13G on my root partition I run out of room.

Sure.  tar understands stdin/stdout, so pipe it across an ssh link.

Or mount the laptop's drive using NFS.

> My shell script it attached.
> 


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Your mistletoe is no match for my TOW missile."  Santa-bot
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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Michael Pobega]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:21:20PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/05/07 10:12, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:29:03PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> [snip]
> >> Plain old "date"?  No.  I prefer `date +%y%m%d.%H%M`.
> > 
> > 
> > I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I want to
> > know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
> > aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
> > all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
> > mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
> > backup?
> 
> Did you get the script I attached to the email you replied to?  It
> works like a champ for me.
> 

I got it, but although that script may work for you it's too particular
of a use; I have a lot of files I need to backup, so it'd be better for
me to backup everything manually myself.

My shell script works, but I keep running out of disc space; Does anyone
know if there's a way I can transfer the file over to my other laptop
once it's done tarring (Effectively removing the need for a /backup dir
on my HDD?) Once I hit 13G on my root partition I run out of room.

My shell script it attached.

-- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman


backup.sh
Description: Bourne shell script


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/05/07 10:12, Michael Pobega wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:29:03PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
[snip]
>> Plain old "date"?  No.  I prefer `date +%y%m%d.%H%M`.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I want to
> know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
> aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
> all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
> mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
> backup?

Did you get the script I attached to the email you replied to?  It
works like a champ for me.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Your mistletoe is no match for my TOW missile."  Santa-bot
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Re: OT: Socket A motherboard

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/05/07 05:44, Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 12/04/07 11:30, Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 12/03/07 20:59, Sam Leon wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> And *none* will have SATA.
>>
> Do you mean sataII?  There are alot of socket A boards that have sata,
> the nf7-s v2 included.
 I'm surprised.  But then Wikipedia tells me that it's aka Socket
 462, so it's lasted longer than I thought it did.
>>> Why is it surprising? P4's are still alive and many have support for
>>> SATA.
>> Alive as in "still works"?  Or alive as in "still being fabricated"?
> 
> Alive as in "still work" and as in "many companies and individuals still
> largely use them" with an emphasis on *largely*.

Ok.  Just making sure we are talking about the same thing.

> I have not yet come across a company that would provide me with anything
> different from a P4 or a P4-HT for my workstation.

P4?  Noise city...

Our company was like that for a long time.  But last year they got
us all(?) little mid-range Stinkpads with docking stations.

>> Unless I'm totally out of the loop 32-bit Athlons and P4s haven't
>> been fabbed in more than a year.
> 
> "more than a year"? And when did SATA come out? Last

Yes, P4s and Socket A chips haven't been made in a "long" while.

You're right, though, about SATA.

>>>I actually find my Athlon XP Barton to be more responsive than
>>> some P4-HT that I have used. Why would it not support SATA?
>>> Look at the A7N8X from ASUS, for example.
>>> If you google for "socket a" +"sata", you'll get many...

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Your mistletoe is no match for my TOW missile."  Santa-bot
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Re: Debian installer support on apt-cacher-ng

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 12:33:30PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Michael Pobega wrote:
> > ftp.debian.org is no longer in use
> 
> Incorrect, ftp.debian.org is just as much in use as it has ever been, as
> yet another mirror of the Debian archive.
> 

I meant it should no longer be used; I switched my mirrors from there
the other day. Sorry for the misinformation.

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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Re: Can not read some messages with signature in mutt

[Wayne Topa]

Misko([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 02:22:25PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > I'm guessing GPG is not setup on your computer. Try setting 
> > > crypt_verify_sig to no.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Andrei
> > > P.S. Deliberately not signed to make it easier for you to read it ;)
> > 
> > that spoils the fun... I was just thinking how hilarious it would be
> > if we all replied with signed mail...
> > 
> > okay, unsigned to just to be nice ;-P
> > 
> > A
> 
> I putted 'set crypt_verify_sig=no' line inot .muttrc file
> but it does not help. Funny thing is that I can not read emails
> only from Michael Pobega. All other messages (signet or not)
> are readable to me.
> When I read signet message mutt says:
> 'PGP signature could NOT be verified.'
> but show the content in pager. Only for Michael's emails it says:
> 'Could not copy message'
> amd refuse to show the text of message. This is most confusig to me.
> 
> Just now I found new way to read Michael's emails:
> first pressing 'v' to see attachment and than with enter I can
> read his message. What I noticed with this process is that
> Michael's messages has only one attachment:
>   I 1  [text/plain, 7bit, 
> 1.3K]
> but all other signed emails has two attachments:
>   I 1  [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 
> 0.3K]
>   I 2 Digital signature[applica/pgp-signat, 7bit, 
> 0.2K]
> 
> Could this be the problem? But then I am puzzled why is it only me
> who can not read his messages and rest of you can.

I have 'set pgp_verify_sig = no' in my .muttrc and have no problem
with Michael's mail.

:-) HTH, YMMV, HAND :-)

W

-- 
C, n.:
  A programming language that is sort of like Pascal except more like assembly 
except that it isn't very much like either one, or anything else.  It is either 
the best language available to the art today, or it isn't.
-- Ray Simard
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Re: gecko engine crashes after today's update

[Celejar]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:55:00 -0600
Yevgen Yampolskiy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> Can anybody tell me where I should file bug reports for gecko engine?
> It crashes all the time after today's update (debian unstable).
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't know how to see update history. Is there any way 
> to see which packages I've updated today?

It depends on your package manager; if you are using aptitude, see
'/var/log/aptitude(\.[1-6])?'

> Best,
> Yevgen.

Celejar
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Mount doesn't follow symbolik links on SAMBA, but Nautilus does

[Cassiano Bertol Leal]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I have a problem with a Samba share at work. The share has some symbolic
links to directories that are not shared.

If I mount the share via 'mount -t smbfs', these links don't work. If I
access this same share via Nautilus with 'smb://...', I can follow all
links without a problem.

Here's an example of what happens:

Server SAMBA has a share called SHARE for the /DIR directory
(smb://SAMBA/SHARE points to /DIR).

Inside /DIR, there's /DIR/LINK -> /home/user/somedir

If I mount SHARE via mount/fstab and ls -l it, I still get:
/DIR/LINK -> /home/user/somedir

This link's destination doesn't exist in my system, and thus the link is
invalid. Even if it existed, it wouldn't be what I was lookig for.

If I mount smb://SAMBA/SHARE in Nautilus and follow LINK, it redirects
me to /home/user/somedir on the server automagically.

What's the magic that Nautilus does? Can I do it via mount / fstab ?

Cheers,
Cassiano Leal
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Re: SUDO

[Celejar]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:10:45 -0500
"Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[snip]

>   3.  Choose a different game.

Can you recommend anything in Debian as good as Wesnoth? [Yes, Nethack
is incomparable, but still ...]

Celejar
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Re: cdrom not working after kernel update

[Celejar]

[back on list]
[please do not top-post]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 04:37:49 -0800 (PST)
tharanga Wijethilake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Thank you very much for the advice. and as you said in the reply
> I compared the two config files and figure out that following part is missing 
> from the config file for 2.6.23.8.
> #
> # Old CD-ROM drivers (not SCSI, not IDE)
> #
> CONFIG_CD_NO_IDESCSI=y
> CONFIG_AZTCD=m
> CONFIG_GSCD=m
> CONFIG_MCDX=m
> CONFIG_OPTCD=m
> CONFIG_SJCD=m
> CONFIG_ISP16_CDI=m
> CONFIG_CDU535=m
> 
>  How should I include these in the new kernel. because when I tried to re 
> buitl the modules from /lib/modules/(uname -r)/build it did not have those 
> part in the menu that is obtained by "make menuconfig".

Those drivers are in '/Driver Options/Old CD-ROM drivers', between
'Serial ATA' and 'Multi-device support'.  Note that they will only be
available if you have enabled '/Bus options/ISA support'.

> I downloaded the kernel from following place. 
> http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/
> 
> ~Tharanga

Celejar
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exim4 config - what EXACTLY is "final destination"

[Bob Goldberg]

running debian etch w/ exim 4.

I want to setup exim to receive internet email, and accept/relay ONLY emails
to a recipient listed in a text file, on to my exchange server. It will not
send any outbound email.

I've been having a heck of a time getting this to work. been trying to edit
config files, make my own router etc...
I'm thinking I shouldn't need to make my own router, just mod an existing
one, but not sure which to use for sure


Anyway - been having SO many problems getting this to work, I've decided to
start over again.
(1) i'm dpkg-reconfig 'g and I'm being asked "should this machine consider
itself the final destination".
I'm not even 100% sure how to answer this stupid question. What EXACTLY IS
the final destination?
is my debian box the final destination even though it will relay all email
to an exchange server, and have NO "localhost" email boxes???
I use localhost, because I don't even know what "local" means!!!
What exactly is a local delivery? is email to the debian box local? to my
exchange server - is that local (only 1 domain)?

(2) recipient domains, that this sys will relay for. i'm ASSUMING that I
enter my domain.com here because I want this box to relay everything to my
exchange server.  Then the screen says - "Do not mention local domains
here". BANG; now I have no idea what to put here. What exactly is a "local
domain" !?!?!?!?!  is debian.domain.com a local domain?  is
exchange.domain.com local ???
what if (it's NOT), but what if my mail server were on the internet
somewhere, and answers to mail.domain.com - is THAT local

(3) what exactly is a "smarthost"??   is a system that does nothing but
relay valid Email to an exchange server a smart host? From what I
understand, a smart host is something that collects outbound email, and
manages that. So my applications should not be a ssmart host ?  right
The question "machines to relay mail for", I can only ASSUME should be left
blank.

Since I have no idea what the implications are for answering these questions
1 way or another - I'm not sure how to answer!?!
My WHOLE initial setup is a freaking guess
So then, if I go to mod the exim.conf.template file - I have NO IDEA what to
do in here, because it references all kinds of variables I know nothing (or
next to) about!


>From everything I've read - exim is supposed to be much better than
sendmail. It's supposed to be more secure, and easier to setup.
Well - here's my take:
having a config file that uses arcane variables that they themselves use
more variables to control certain actions is INSANE! you have var's that
trigger something to happen somewhere, sometime and god only knows
where/when!!!
Give me a script file written in a language I've never seen before and I can
figure out what's going on 10 times faster.
In fact, give me a script file written in a [computer] language I've never
seen, written in a foreign [human] language, and I can figure out what's
happening 5 times faster. :O)

more secure - probably - I can't even run the dam setup (or more properly,
get exim itself running right) darn right it's more secure ;o)


So - while I'm on my rant - what email server do SMART people run on debian
(what should I be using)?

TIA - Bob

apt-get mirrors

[Iuri Sampaio]

Hi,

What did happen with debian etch official mirrors?


I can't access the followed mirrors:

 deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
 deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US etch/non-US main contrib
non-free
 deb http://security.debian.org etch/updates main contrib non-free


 deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US etch/non-US main contrib
non-free


if there isn't anything wrong with mirrors, does anyone have a good one?
iuri


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8:41 AM
 


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Bill Smith]

andy wrote:

David Brodbeck wrote:


On Dec 5, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Michael Pobega wrote:


I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I 
want to

know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
backup?


The answer is, "it depends."  How much custom configuration have you 
done?  How fast does the system need to be back in service?


For desktop machines that have basically stock installations, I often 
only back up /home and /etc, plus maybe /var/www if the machine has a 
web server.  I don't see any point in using up space backing up 
binaries that I can easily reinstall from the Debian CDs.  But on a 
system where I've built lots of local software or done lots of custom 
scripting, backing up the binaries makes more sense.


Excluding /tmp and /var/tmp makes sense.  So does excluding data 
caches -- /var/cache/apt, your squid cache directory if you're 
running squid, maybe even web browser caches if you're pinched for 
space.  On systems that run udev, backing up /dev is also fruitless, 
although it doesn't really take up much space.  And you should always 
exclude /proc.  It's not a "real" filesystem anyway.



Just to wade in here, since the OP has asked a question that is also 
topical for me now:


I'd be wanting to do a back-up from my own machine to an external USB 
HDD as well as from a second machine connected to the LAN, both using 
Debian. I would want to save a back up of /home and /etc initially and 
then a weekly incremental back up of anything that has changed in the 
meantime. I don't need the encryption and don't really need the 
compression (the USB HDD is 500GB which can easily swallow both of the 
HDDs being backed up).


A number of suggestions as to the best program to use for backing up 
have been made, but many sound like they are overkill for my purposes. 
All I would need is something simple (like me :) ) and reliable. Any 
recommendations for this purpose?
I use rsback, which is just a very handy backend to rsync, it produces 
incremental backups
from the main server, 2 samba shares and all the homes with the imap 
mail to a second server
it is backed up onto another samba share on the second machine, so the 
people in the office

can they copy it off onto external drives to take home.
I just run it through a series of cron jobs every night, no problems at all.
HTH




Thanks

Andy





--
Bill


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Martin Marcher wrote:

But since *nix has a history of being secure because a user/process
can't by default destroy any data besides the data one/it owns. Why
not take that one further and require explicit permission to even run
a program that can potentially destroy data?

* Why not take that one further and require explicit permission to run
_any_ program?

Revoking "others" access by default does just that. I think my point
wasn't clear.


I suppose because if you remove permissions on anything that can  
potentially destroy data, you quickly end up with a system that isn't  
usable.  If you're getting paranoid enough to restrict wget and tar,  
you'd be better served by not letting the user have access to a shell  
at all.  I mean, you can still clobber a file you have write  
permission to by doing "echo 'Whatever' >file".  In most shells this  
requires no execute permissions on anything, since 'echo' is a built- 
in command.



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Re: permissions in general

[John Hasler]

Martin Marcher wrote:
> Why not take that one further and require explicit permission to even run
> a program that can potentially destroy data?

There are few useful programs without the potential to destroy data.

> Why not take that one further and require explicit permission to run
> _any_ program?

Because most sysadmins don't want every user coming in every fifteen
minutes to get permission to run yet another program.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Joey Hess]

Martin Marcher wrote:
> /usr/bin/perl
> /usr/bin/wget
> /bin/tar

How about /bin/cat, which can be used to transfer copies of any of these
onto the system?

> * Why not take that one further and require explicit permission to run
> _any_ program?

Because then you have a web server with some CGIs. Which also has a
fairly dreadful security history in general.

-- 
see shy jo


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Test (and really annoyed)

[Nigel Henry]

On Wednesday 05 December 2007 19:02, Nigel Henry wrote:
> Just a test ,as I've just had 3 replies to mailing list refused, as below.
>
>  - These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail server:
> debian-user@lists.debian.org; Failed; 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox
> address)
>
> Remote MTA liszt.debian.org: SMTP diagnostic: 550 5.7.1
> : Recipient address rejected: Mail appeared
> to be SPAM or forged. Ask your Mail/DNS-Administrator to correct HELO and
> DNS MX settings or to get removed from DNSBLs; in
> postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org; in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org
>
>
> Nigel.

Sorry for the noise, as it now appears that I can send to the list from my 
original email address again. Doh.

Nigel.


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Test (and really annoyed)

[Nigel Henry]

Just a test ,as I've just had 3 replies to mailing list refused, as below.

 - These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail server:
debian-user@lists.debian.org; Failed; 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox address)

Remote MTA liszt.debian.org: SMTP diagnostic: 550 5.7.1 
: Recipient address rejected: Mail appeared to 
be SPAM or forged. Ask your Mail/DNS-Administrator to correct HELO and DNS MX 
settings or to get removed from DNSBLs; in postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org; in 
abuse.rfc-ignorant.org


Nigel.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[andy]

David Brodbeck wrote:


On Dec 5, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Michael Pobega wrote:


I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I want to
know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
backup?


The answer is, "it depends."  How much custom configuration have you 
done?  How fast does the system need to be back in service?


For desktop machines that have basically stock installations, I often 
only back up /home and /etc, plus maybe /var/www if the machine has a 
web server.  I don't see any point in using up space backing up 
binaries that I can easily reinstall from the Debian CDs.  But on a 
system where I've built lots of local software or done lots of custom 
scripting, backing up the binaries makes more sense.


Excluding /tmp and /var/tmp makes sense.  So does excluding data 
caches -- /var/cache/apt, your squid cache directory if you're running 
squid, maybe even web browser caches if you're pinched for space.  On 
systems that run udev, backing up /dev is also fruitless, although it 
doesn't really take up much space.  And you should always exclude 
/proc.  It's not a "real" filesystem anyway.



Just to wade in here, since the OP has asked a question that is also 
topical for me now:


I'd be wanting to do a back-up from my own machine to an external USB 
HDD as well as from a second machine connected to the LAN, both using 
Debian. I would want to save a back up of /home and /etc initially and 
then a weekly incremental back up of anything that has changed in the 
meantime. I don't need the encryption and don't really need the 
compression (the USB HDD is 500GB which can easily swallow both of the 
HDDs being backed up).


A number of suggestions as to the best program to use for backing up 
have been made, but many sound like they are overkill for my purposes. 
All I would need is something simple (like me :) ) and reliable. Any 
recommendations for this purpose?


Thanks

Andy


--

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the 
answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Martin Marcher]

On 12/5/07, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Martin Marcher wrote:
> > So the user needs to get a precompiled gcc somewhere.
> > Then she would need to get all the header files necessary
> > Then she needs to get the source.
> > Then the quota is full... :)
>
> Most systems come with perl. Perl can do anything any non-suid program
> in /sbin can do. Most systems come with ar, tar, and wget. This can be
> used to download any .deb and unpack it. The kind of "security" you're
> suggesting has hstorically worked miserably, see for example Microsoft
> Windows, which does not come with a C compiler or many useful programs.

/usr/bin/perl
/usr/bin/wget
/bin/tar

exactly my point none of these tools would be accessible in the first
place without explicit permission by the sysadmin.

And btw. I'm not talking about tools, etc. I see a tendency in systems
being more secured with RBAC, MAC, auditing tools, $whatever.

But since *nix has a history of being secure because a user/process
can't by default destroy any data besides the data one/it owns. Why
not take that one further and require explicit permission to even run
a program that can potentially destroy data?

* Why not take that one further and require explicit permission to run
_any_ program?

Revoking "others" access by default does just that. I think my point
wasn't clear.

-- 
http://noneisyours.marcher.name
http://feeds.feedburner.com/NoneIsYours


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Re: Debian installer support on apt-cacher-ng

[Javi]

On Dec 5, 5:40 pm, Michael Pobega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ftp.debian.org is no longer in use, use a local mirror (Or use apt-spy
> to find the fastest mirror for you)


Sorry, I meant ftp.fi.debian.org

Thanks for your quick answer


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Re: Debian installer support on apt-cacher-ng

[Joey Hess]

Michael Pobega wrote:
> ftp.debian.org is no longer in use

Incorrect, ftp.debian.org is just as much in use as it has ever been, as
yet another mirror of the Debian archive.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Joey Hess]

Martin Marcher wrote:
> So the user needs to get a precompiled gcc somewhere.
> Then she would need to get all the header files necessary
> Then she needs to get the source.
> Then the quota is full... :)

Most systems come with perl. Perl can do anything any non-suid program
in /sbin can do. Most systems come with ar, tar, and wget. This can be
used to download any .deb and unpack it. The kind of "security" you're
suggesting has hstorically worked miserably, see for example Microsoft
Windows, which does not come with a C compiler or many useful programs.

-- 
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Re: permissions in /sbin

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 5:51 AM, John Hasler wrote:


andy writes:

OK - but according to RUTE sbin = "Superuser binary executables.


The "s" is for "system", not for "superuser".


These are programs for system administration only. Only the root will
have these executables in their path" ("Rute User's Tutorial &
Exposition", Paul Sheer, 2002; p137).


Any user can add /sbin to her path.


And I often have done, usually after getting tired of seeing 'command  
not found' for the umpteenth time.  A lot of Unix-ish systems put  
fairly innocuous and commonly used stuff like traceroute and ntpq   
there.


One obvious problem with removing permissions on all this stuff is  
there are sometimes situations where an ordinary user legitimately  
needs to run, say, mount.



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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Michael Pobega wrote:


I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I  
want to

know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
backup?


The answer is, "it depends."  How much custom configuration have you  
done?  How fast does the system need to be back in service?


For desktop machines that have basically stock installations, I often  
only back up /home and /etc, plus maybe /var/www if the machine has a  
web server.  I don't see any point in using up space backing up  
binaries that I can easily reinstall from the Debian CDs.  But on a  
system where I've built lots of local software or done lots of custom  
scripting, backing up the binaries makes more sense.


Excluding /tmp and /var/tmp makes sense.  So does excluding data  
caches -- /var/cache/apt, your squid cache directory if you're  
running squid, maybe even web browser caches if you're pinched for  
space.  On systems that run udev, backing up /dev is also fruitless,  
although it doesn't really take up much space.  And you should always  
exclude /proc.  It's not a "real" filesystem anyway.



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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover.  You just
have to wrap everything in a try block.  So if you're getting error
messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.


Fair enough.  It's just that probably 90% of the Python software I've  
used has had this bug, so I came to assume it was inherent with that  
programming language.



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Re: rsync to clone disk - Can it work? grub-install error

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 11:31:17AM -0500, chloe K wrote:
> thank you Andrew
> 
> this is my mistake. the tmp folder is missing
> 
> grub-install is fine

:)

A


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Re: UPS

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 4:11 AM, Tom Allison wrote:

seems that APC owners are either dominant to the Debian users list  
or just the kind of fanatic to answer an email about their UPS.


I have a Belkin (lame) and a TrippLite (not so lame) that are both  
"dumb" and I might keep for the VCR/Tivo/TV stuff.

But it seems that APC is the clear favorite?


They pretty well dominate the mid-range UPS market in the U.S., from  
what I've seen.  I have little experience with Tripp-Lite except for  
one old low-end unit that doesn't seem to have replaceable  
batteries.  (I avoid UPSs where the batteries aren't easily  
replaceable -- it's the worst kind of planned obsolescence.)  Tripp- 
Lite's higher-end stuff seems to be well respected, though.


I did once buy a couple of CyberPower UPSs.  They worked with Linux  
but I can't recommend them.  They developed odd, flakey behavior  
after a couple years -- like abruptly switching off when there was  
still power available, or going on battery for no apparent reason and  
refusing to switch back to line power.  They also had no provisions  
for easy battery replacement.



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Re: UPS

[David Brodbeck]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 4:07 AM, Tom Allison wrote:



APC has two model lines.  Their BackUPS models give you basic  
functionality and a contact-closure interface for power failure  
and low battery alerts. Configuration is by DIP switches.


Their SmartUPS line adds scheduled self-tests, voltage buck/boost,  
and the ability to read line voltage, battery voltage, percent  
charge, and several other values through a serial interface.   
Configuration is through software.




Is the software configuration available in apscupsd or nut or ...?


NUT can do it.  I suspect apcupsd can do it, but I haven't used that.


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Martin Marcher]

On 12/5/07, Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I guess it's more a historical reason that others can r+x most of the
> > system but I can see a lot of benefits in denying others by default
> > (of course there's a lot of work involved to migrate from the current
> > permission schema that's at least a serious drawback)
>
> There's very little value to blocking read or execute access to
> executables.  A user could compile or download their own
> executable in their own home directory to do the same job.

So the user needs to get a precompiled gcc somewhere.
Then she would need to get all the header files necessary
Then she needs to get the source.
Then the quota is full... :)

> Instead we control what executables can do, e.g. by limiting
> which files can be read or written (by any/all executables).

are you talking about Role Based access or limiting access to the
directories where a user can write to?

Why I think it's good to remove others is somewhat the same reasen as
why in a firewall ruleset the policy should be drop.

You can easily forget to lock down something but if you forget to open
it up you can be sure that within an hour users will give you a call
(or mail if they can execute the program) and complain...


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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Martin Marcher]

Hi,

On 12/5/07, Nyizsnyik Ferenc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:58:59 +0100
> "Martin Marcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > /bin root:users rwxr-x---
> > /sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
> > /usr/bin root:users rwxr-x---
> > /usr/sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
>
> I do get your idea, but have a look at /bin! You will find some very
> important stuff there, like bash, login and cat, but many more, that
> every user should be able to use.

If a user and or group needs to be able to access stuff from a
directory the admin should explicitely allow access. Not rely on that
users can do so anyway

> I also get that you want to enable every user by adding r-x rights to
> the users group, but there are a few "users" that are not members of
> the users group, such as www-data (Apache's "user") and postgres. They
> also need those binaries.

While that is true I still think that the added administrational
overhead (again: explicit is better then implicit)

from man setfacl
setfacl -m g:www-data:rx /bin

wouldn't that work too?

> > and so on. Using acl's it would be very easy to add even more groups.
> > I think the explicit adding of others would make a lot of sense and
> > secure the system in a standard way.


> > I guess it's more a historical reason that others can r+x most of the
> > system but I can see a lot of benefits in denying others by default
> > (of course there's a lot of work involved to migrate from the current
> > permission schema that's at least a serious drawback)



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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Mike Bird]

On Wednesday 05 December 2007 07:58:59 Martin Marcher wrote:
> On 12/4/07, andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ls -l /sbin is all
> >
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   ...
>
> I understand this issue. What I don't get is why it seems to be the
> overall default that others may read and execute files in most cases.
>
> To me it would make sense to have something like (very naive right
> now, hope you get the idea):
>
> /bin root:users rwxr-x---
> /sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
> /usr/bin root:users rwxr-x---
> /usr/sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
>
> and so on. Using acl's it would be very easy to add even more groups.
> I think the explicit adding of others would make a lot of sense and
> secure the system in a standard way.
>
> I guess it's more a historical reason that others can r+x most of the
> system but I can see a lot of benefits in denying others by default
> (of course there's a lot of work involved to migrate from the current
> permission schema that's at least a serious drawback)

There's very little value to blocking read or execute access to
executables.  A user could compile or download their own
executable in their own home directory to do the same job.

Instead we control what executables can do, e.g. by limiting
which files can be read or written (by any/all executables).

--Mike Bird


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Re: rsync to clone disk - Can it work? grub-install error

[chloe K]

thank you Andrew

this is my mistake. the tmp folder is missing

grub-install is fine

thank you 

Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 
09:43:16AM -0500, chloe K wrote:
> 
> 
> Andrew Sackville-West  wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 02:56:57PM -0500, chloe 
> K wrote:
> > Hi all
> > 
> > I install etch in hda
> > then I add the hdc which have same partition but not same size in hda
> > 
> > /dev/hda1 /boot
> > /dev/hda2 /swap
> > /dev/hda3 /
> > 
> > i use rsync to copy data from hda to hdc
> > 
> > I use fedora5 boot disk to boot. 
> > mount /boot and / and chroot to /
> 
> did you mount /boot within the chroot? 

hmmm... what about the rest of the file system?  Is / all on one
partition? What are the permissions on /tmp? and does /bin exist at
this point?

> 
> 
> Yes, I did
> 
> 
> > but I got error to grub-install /dev/hda
> > 
> > You shouldn't call /sbin/grub-install. Please call /usr/sbin/grub-install 
> > instead!
> > tempnam: No such file or directory
> > /usr/sbin/grub-install: line 394: $log_file: ambigous redirect
> 
> what actual command did you enter? 
> 
> 
> grub-install /dev/hda
> 

I looked at the code and the issue is $log_file, which gets set early
on but could be changed in a number of circumstances. But they all
center around the use of /tmp and /bin/tempfile. I think somehow
you're getting a null $log_file and thus causing this ambiguous
redirect. 

I'm not sh pro by any stretch, so ymmv.

A


   
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Re: permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Nyizsnyik Ferenc]

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:58:59 +0100
"Martin Marcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> jumping in.
> 
> On 12/4/07, andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ls -l /sbin is all
> >
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   ...
> 
> I understand this issue. What I don't get is why it seems to be the
> overall default that others may read and execute files in most cases.
> 
> To me it would make sense to have something like (very naive right
> now, hope you get the idea):
> 
> /bin root:users rwxr-x---
> /sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
> /usr/bin root:users rwxr-x---
> /usr/sbin root:adm rwxr-x---

I do get your idea, but have a look at /bin! You will find some very
important stuff there, like bash, login and cat, but many more, that
every user should be able to use.
I also get that you want to enable every user by adding r-x rights to
the users group, but there are a few "users" that are not members of
the users group, such as www-data (Apache's "user") and postgres. They
also need those binaries.

> and so on. Using acl's it would be very easy to add even more groups.
> I think the explicit adding of others would make a lot of sense and
> secure the system in a standard way.
> 
> I guess it's more a historical reason that others can r+x most of the
> system but I can see a lot of benefits in denying others by default
> (of course there's a lot of work involved to migrate from the current
> permission schema that's at least a serious drawback)
> 
> What do you think?
> 


-- 
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Nyizsa.

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Re: Can not read some messages with signature in mutt

[Misko]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 02:22:25PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > I'm guessing GPG is not setup on your computer. Try setting 
> > crypt_verify_sig to no.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Andrei
> > P.S. Deliberately not signed to make it easier for you to read it ;)
> 
> that spoils the fun... I was just thinking how hilarious it would be
> if we all replied with signed mail...
> 
> okay, unsigned to just to be nice ;-P
> 
> A

I putted 'set crypt_verify_sig=no' line inot .muttrc file
but it does not help. Funny thing is that I can not read emails
only from Michael Pobega. All other messages (signet or not)
are readable to me.
When I read signet message mutt says:
'PGP signature could NOT be verified.'
but show the content in pager. Only for Michael's emails it says:
'Could not copy message'
amd refuse to show the text of message. This is most confusig to me.

Just now I found new way to read Michael's emails:
first pressing 'v' to see attachment and than with enter I can
read his message. What I noticed with this process is that
Michael's messages has only one attachment:
  I 1  [text/plain, 7bit, 1.3K]
but all other signed emails has two attachments:
  I 1  [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 0.3K]
  I 2 Digital signature[applica/pgp-signat, 7bit, 0.2K]

Could this be the problem? But then I am puzzled why is it only me
who can not read his messages and rest of you can.

Misko


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:29:03PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/04/07 16:19, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:04:47PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> On 12/04/07 15:09, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >>> What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
> >>> on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
> >>> backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
> >>> still go wrong.
> >>>
> >>> So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
> >>> pros and cons. Thanks!
> >> *Much* more information needed.
> > 
> > 
> > Sorry, I wasn't thinking.
> > 
> >> How much stuff?  50MB?  5GB?  500GB?  5TB?
> > 
> > 
> > 80GB HDD. It isn't full, of course, but that's the maximum (Currently
> > about 45 GB)
> > 
> >> How compressible is it?  Text/MySQL files or MP3s and JPGs?
> > 
> > 
> > I wouldn't know the answer to that questions.
> 
> MySQL dumps are compressible (unless it's compressed during the dump
> phase).  Text is compressible.  OOo, AbiWord, Gnumeric, etc aren't.
> 
> >> How important is it?  Your own stuff, or a business' stuff?
> > 
> > 
> > It's pretty important; It's my own stuff, it has all of my school work,
> > programming work, pictures, videos, and configuration files on it.
> 
> Pictures and video obviously aren't compressible.
> 
> >> How big of a window do you have to back it up?  30 minutes at 23:15,
> >> and you're fired if it goes past midnight?  All night between 17:30
> >> and 07:30?
> > 
> > 
> > A weekly night-backup would be my preferred method. 
> 
> Perfectly adequate for home use.
> 
> >> How often will the lusers will "Michael, this stupid computer ate my
> >> work.  Bring it back!!" (Meaning, of course, that they
> >> stupidly/carelessly deleted/overwrote it.)  If it's a database, will
> >> the developers want regular copies restored for testing?
> > 
> > 
> > It's just my own stuff...The odds are probably low of someone deleting
> > my work by accident, but better safe than sorry.
> 
> Tar (or rsync) your source trees on an hourly basis to a totally
> separate directory.  Volatile stuff needs to be saved frequently.
> 
> >> Frequency?  Nightly, weekly, every-other-day?
> > 
> > 
> > Weekly.
> > 
> >> Retention?  Keep backups for a month?  Quarter?  Year?  7 years?
> > 
> > 
> > I'd probably keep backups for two weeks, so I've have two backups at any
> > given time.
> > 
> >> Budget?  Always a killer...
> > 
> > 
> > I have another laptop sitting around with a 60GB HDD; Could I use that
> > as a backup?
> > 
> > Otherwise all I have is a 4GB pendrive and no money (But I could get my
> > hands on an 80GB External HDD easily)
> 
> 3 weeks till Santa-bot tries to trim the tree with your entrails and
> deck the halls with your guts.  I'm sure he could hurl an empty
> external case or two at you.
> 
> >> As for backing it up, tar.  Works like a champ.
> > 
> > 
> > Just `tar -cvvf backup-`date`.tar /`? Is it really that simple?
> 
> Plain old "date"?  No.  I prefer `date +%y%m%d.%H%M`.
> 

I'm trying to write a shell script to use tar for backups, but I want to
know; Which directories are nessecary to backup with tar and which
aren't? Obviously /bin, /usr, /home, /boot, /lib, /srv (Where I keep
all of my chroots) and /etc are, but are any of the other directories
mandatory to backup? Or are any of these directories fruitless to
backup?

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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=JZxs
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Re: Debian installer support on apt-cacher-ng

[Michael Pobega]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 07:20:45AM -0800, Javi wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I tried to install apt-cacher-ng (0.1.6). It works nice for xen-tools
> and like repository for my sources.list, but when I configure debian
> installer to use "apt_cacher_ng_IP:3142" and "ftp.debian.org/debian"
> like base directory, it didn't work
> 
> debian installer says it couldn't find repository.
> 
> I read at #454190 , about apt-cacher supports the debian installer as
> client, but I didn't find info about apt-cacher-ng support.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 

ftp.debian.org is no longer in use, use a local mirror (Or use apt-spy
to find the fastest mirror for you)

- -- 
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programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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cf6O2oIq7oxWHbgsPZZyNbk=
=CLc2
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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 04:22:42PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/04/07 16:01, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> [snip]
> > 
> > less frequent burn to tiny CD-R to fit in the Bank's Safety Deposit Box.
> > 
> > Before I go away anywhere (i.e. out of town), I copy the most important
> > of the backup to a 4 GB USB stick.
> > 
> > This means that I have a separate directory called "essential_backup"
> > with a symlink in each user's home directory.  They are to place a
> > symlink of any critical data in that directory.  That directory is
> > tarred up (following the symlinks) very frequently indeed and propogated
> > to the other box immediatly.
> > 
> > The regular stuff is tarred up (tgz) and split to 650 MB size e.g.
> > backup.tgz.aa to fit on CD-Rs.
> 
> That's good for personal use (I do something similar, but send it
> off to an external drive), but not adequate for a server.

After that backup.tbz is made, I rsync it to another box.  Its the main
box that has the burner.

> 
> > If security of the backups is required (other than physical security of
> > the media), then I use openssl to encrypt it with an unencrypted README
> > file, with the commands used to encrypt and decrypt (minus the actual
> > password), included on each backup media.
> 
> How do you do that?  (I'd have uses gpg.)
> 

Just doing a quick look around, gpg is bigger and needs some setup, also
isn't available easily or by default on as many systems.
OpenSSL is dead simple if you've go the binary.  Eg: lets say you want
to encrypt with blowfish:

openssl bf -a -e -salt -in file -out file.bf

It prompts for passphrase

To decrypt:

openssl bf -a -d -salt in file.bf -out file


 


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Re: permissions in /sbin

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 07:51:55AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> andy writes:
> > OK - but according to RUTE sbin = "Superuser binary executables.
> 
> The "s" is for "system", not for "superuser".
> 
> > These are programs for system administration only. Only the root will
> > have these executables in their path" ("Rute User's Tutorial &
> > Exposition", Paul Sheer, 2002; p137).
> 
> Any user can add /sbin to her path.

On some Unix's, the "s" stands for "staticlly-linked" as in they don't
rely on /lib so you can fix a system if the linker isn't working.  This
doesn't apply to debian.

Doug.


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Re: random keystrokes ignored on console

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 07:51:30PM -0600, Owen Heisler wrote:
> On Sat, 2007.12.01 20:33, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 09:32:52PM -0600, Owen Heisler wrote:
> > > Sometimes, when I type in the console, about 40% of the keystrokes are 
> > > ignored.  
> > > If I type (for example) "startx" and hit enter, I'll see "sart" or 
> > > somesuch and 
> > > the command fails.  In that same case, typing "sttartxx" and enter 
> > > probably 
> > > would have worked, with "startx" being run.  The enter key is also 
> > > affected, so 
> > > maybe I'd have had to hit it twice.  This is frustrating, obviously.  This
> > >  - does not seem to be related to system temperature,
> > >  - does not happen in X,
> > >  - doesn't seem to be happening consistently,
> > >  - and affects logging in (username & password) too.
> > > 
> > > This is on a new ThinkPad running Debian Lenny/Sid amd64.  I thought this 
> > > problem could be hardware-related, so I ran the hardware tests available 
> > > on the 
> > > Rescue & Recovery disc included with the laptop.  Two tests failed:
> > >  System Board: USB Port Test - Abnormal Exit
> > >  SMBIOS: Standards Test - Failed
> > > but they don't seem related to the problem.
 
> > How did you determine that the hardware errors reported don't seem to be
> > related to the problem?  Get the service manual from IBM's website and
> > see what it says to do to fix the problem.  Do the diags give you any
> > FRU (Field-Replacable Unit) numbers?
> 
> I don't know whether the hardware errors are related, but I'm beginning to 
> not 
> trust the PCDoctor software included on the ThinkPad Rescue & Recovery media. 
>  
> It doesn't include any more information than what is in this message (unless 
> I'm missing something).  Linux isn't complaining about any hardware and 
> everything seems to work.

I know that some IBMs come with nice software for user's to run, but
usually there's a bios-based advanced diagnostics.  If you get the
service manual from IBM's website, you'll probably find the magic
keystrokes (try holding down F1 while you power on) to get into the
advanced diagnostics.  If there is a hardware fault, it will give you
an FRU number which you then look up in the service manual and it tells
you what it is and what to do.  Its usally quite detailed.

Doug.


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Re: Restore menus after FS problem

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 05:32:36PM -0500, David Bruce wrote:
> After a power outage triggering the need for fsck on several partitions, it 
> appears the KDE menus got hosed - many entries no longer have a command 
> associated with them, specifically all of the KDE apps.  I can't find any 
> other evidence of data problems. Is there any simple way to recreate the menu 
> entries?  I think I could uninstall KDE and reinstall, but that seems 
> too "brute force". 

Before you worry about menus, consider if anything else was broken.  Is
it a KDE problem, or a problem in your home directory.  If you create a
new user, can you create menu items?  If so, reinstalling KDE won't help
since the problem is in your own home directory.  Look for signs of
anything else missing.

Doug.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 03:22:48PM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote:
 
> What's your experience with rdiff-backup been?  When I tried it I  
> found it way too fragile to be a viable backup solution.  If the  
> backup was interrupted for any reason, it would corrupt the history  
> data, and all future backup or restore attempts in that directory  
> would cause rdiff-backup to crash.  Also, it had the usual Python  
> error recovery problems -- whenever an error occurred the actual  
> error message was buried somewhere in a gargantuan stack trace.

Please don't call this the "Usual Python error recovery problems".
Python allows you to trap all the errors it could discover.  You just
have to wrap everything in a try block.  So if you're getting error
messages in a stack trace, then call it a bug.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 05:19:48PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
 
> Just `tar -cvvf backup-`date`.tar /`? Is it really that simple?

You don't need to backup the whole /.

I have a file called backuplist:
/etc/
/usr/local/
/root/
/var/local/
/home/

and I have a file called excludelist:

/var/local/backup
/var/local/unbackedup
/home/dtutty/uldl
/root/uldl

These are both in /usr/local/lib/backup, although they should go in
/etc/ but I wanted to avoid any conflicts with any package I may install
that would have /etc/backup/.

For completeness, here's my whole backup script.  This is for my main
box titan.  Less complex scripts are run on other boxes.  Other scrips
do the rsync.  Note that my /home is on a cat lvm while my system
(including /var/local where the backups go) is on lvm over raid1.

Doug.




#!/bin/bash
### special to hostname titan
# Backup to /var/local/backup/titan

# backing up directories listed in /usr/local/lib/backup/list
# and excluding those in /usr/local/lib/backup/excludelist
/bin/echo -e "System Backup"
/bin/echo -e "=\n"
/bin/echo -e "First: ensure users have saved essential stuff to 
~/essential_backup,"
/bin/echo -e "either as sym-links or actual files; backup will dump links as 
files."
/bin/echo -e "Examples may be: exporting bookmarks list, special docs, etc."
/bin/echo -e "Backup will then save those to a separate file before"
/bin/echo -e "running the main backup program.\n"
/bin/echo -e "\nBackup files will be in /var/local/backup/titan/"
/bin/echo -e "and will be done in order of priority to restoring the system."
/bin/echo -e "These can then be copied to media-of-choice.\a\n"
/bin/echo -e "\nBackup takes around 10 minutes.\n"
read -p "Press  when ready to continue backup"

/bin/echo -en "\nSaving grub menu.lst..."
/bin/cp -af /boot/grub/menu.lst /var/local/backup/titan
/bin/echo -e "Done."

/bin/echo -en "\nSaving necessary /etc/files plain text..."
## note: bare-bones recovery from basedebs.tar.gz doesn't have bzip2
## so with entire /etc/ backed up bzip2, need everything that we'
## need prior to and for connecting to the internet available
## in either plain text or gzip.

mkdir -m 0750 /var/local/backup/titan/etc
chown root.adm /var/local/backup/titan/etc

/bin/cp -af /etc/fstab /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/modules /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hosts /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hosts.allow /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hosts.deny /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/inittab /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/network/interfaces /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/hostname /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/modutils/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/
/bin/rm -rf /var/local/backup/titan/etc/modutils/arch
/bin/cp -af /etc/modprobe.d/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/
/bin/cp -af /etc/resolv.conf /var/local/backup/titan/etc
/bin/cp -af /etc/ppp/   /var/local/backup/titan/etc/
/bin/cp -af /etc/chatscripts/ /var/local/backup/titan/etc/

/bin/echo -e "Done."

/bin/echo -en "\nSaving the partition table and disk usage information..."
/sbin/fdisk -lu /dev/sda > /var/local/backup/titan/sda_partitions
/sbin/sfdisk -d /dev/sda > /var/local/backup/titan/sda_sfdisk.out
/sbin/fdisk -lu /dev/sdb > /var/local/backup/titan/sdb_partitions
/sbin/sfdisk -d /dev/sdb > /var/local/backup/titan/sdb_sfdisk.out
du -c --si --max-depth=1 /* > /var/local/backup/titan/dusummary 2>/dev/null
df --si > /var/local/backup/titan/dfsummary
/bin/echo -e "Done."

/bin/echo "Saving package selection..."
dpkg --get-selections > /var/local/backup/titan/inst_deb.sel
aptitude search '~i!~M' > /var/local/backup/titan/apt_inst.sel
/bin/echo "Done."


/bin/echo -e "Backing up /root/service/ to /var/local/backup/titan"
/bin/cp -af /root/service/  /var/local/backup/titan/

/bin/echo "Saving etc.tgz.bak" 
/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz.bak
/bin/echo -e "Backing up /etc/ to /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz"
/bin/tar -czf /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz /etc/ 
/bin/echo -e "Done."
/bin/echo "Removing saved etc.tgz.bak"
/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/etc.tgz.bak
/bin/echo "Done."

/bin/echo "Saving es_bk.tgz.bak"
/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz 
/var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz.bak
/bin/echo -e "\nBacking up /var/local/essential_backup/ >"
/bin/echo -en "/var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz"
/bin/tar -czhPf /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz /var/local/essential_backup/
# c=create, -h=don't dump symlinks, but files pointed to
# P=ablsolute path name so they go back exactly where they belong
/bin/echo -e "Done"
/bin/echo "Removing saved es_bk.tgz.bak"
/bin/rm -f /var/local/backup/titan/es_bk.tgz.bak
/bin/echo "Done."

#/bin/echo "Saving backup.tgz.bak"
#/bin/cp -af /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz 
/var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz.bak
#/bin/echo -e "Backing-up complete system: > /var/local/backup/titan/backup.tgz"
#/bin/tar -czf

Re: Slow access speeds for backup server

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:50:16PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/04/07 19:57, Duncan McDonald wrote:
> > 
> > I run a small network with a primary and secondary debian server which
> > access the net through a debian router. The debian router serves 3
> > separate intranets and like the servers, is running Sarge stable.
> 
> Sarge is oldstable.  With the emphasis on *old*.
> 
> Anything that's visible to the hostile environment that is the
> Intarweb, I'd bump that world-facing router to Etch ASAP.
> 
> > Over the past couple of weeks I've noticed that access times to the
> > backup server have been steadily increasing and now it takes about 2
> > minutes to display a web page. At first I thought it might be a router
> > issue because when I ran tcpdump the summary at the end said:
> [snip]
> > 
> > This network configuration has been running fine for over a year now
> > without any changes so I'm a bit stumped about what the problem is.
> 
> Could be your NIC is getting dodgy.  Or the HDD.  Or the ISP is
> having problems.

Or by now he's been bitten by one of the vulnerabilites since the last
time he upgraded.

What does top show (perhaps its CPU, memory, or waiting), or bwm-ng?
What about watching ifconifg for a bit?  What's showing up in syslog?

Doug.




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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 05:19:48PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
 
> I have another laptop sitting around with a 60GB HDD; Could I use that
> as a backup?

Sure.  Note, however, that if that's you're only backup, and the only
use for that laptop, that since the drive is small compared to the
source drive, you want to minimize other use of that 60 GB drive.
Debian has a larger footprint than e.g. OpenBSD.  I'd install a base
OpenBSD, with only the required install sets.  Then install the rsync
package.  OBSD base already comes with ssh so you should be set.  Put
the backups somewhere under /home (leave the rest of the hier for OBSD)
so you can do upgrades every six months as they come out.  Since this
box isn't going to be connected to anything but the source box, you
probably don't have to worry about compiling patches.  

The OpenBSD install should fit in a 400 MB partition, with /home on a
partition (slice) that takes up the rest of the drive.

Doug.


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Re: How to mount .iso file from NFS share?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:34:15PM +0100, misiek_spam  wrote:
> 
> On Dec 5, 15:20 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe file permission. I mean, on remote filesystem, the file
> > belongs to, say, user 1002. But locally you are user 1001. Check
> > this out...
> > 
> But I can access the file - as a user. However the user cannot mount
> .iso - it requires root priviledges, so I have to use sudo. But then
> it tells me that I have no permissions to the file. Does it mean that
> root has no rights to files on NFS mount? 

It probably has something to do with root_squash on the NFS server,
although I'm unsure of the details here.  Its been a couple of years
since I used NFS.

Doug.


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permissions in general (WAS: Re: permissions in /sbin)

[Martin Marcher]

Hi,

jumping in.

On 12/4/07, andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ls -l /sbin is all
>
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   ...

I understand this issue. What I don't get is why it seems to be the
overall default that others may read and execute files in most cases.

To me it would make sense to have something like (very naive right
now, hope you get the idea):

/bin root:users rwxr-x---
/sbin root:adm rwxr-x---
/usr/bin root:users rwxr-x---
/usr/sbin root:adm rwxr-x---

and so on. Using acl's it would be very easy to add even more groups.
I think the explicit adding of others would make a lot of sense and
secure the system in a standard way.

I guess it's more a historical reason that others can r+x most of the
system but I can see a lot of benefits in denying others by default
(of course there's a lot of work involved to migrate from the current
permission schema that's at least a serious drawback)

What do you think?

-- 
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http://feeds.feedburner.com/NoneIsYours


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Re: rsync to clone disk - Can it work? grub-install error

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 09:43:16AM -0500, chloe K wrote:
> 
> 
> Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 
> 02:56:57PM -0500, chloe K wrote:
> > Hi all
> > 
> > I install etch in hda
> > then I add the hdc which have same partition but not same size in hda
> > 
> > /dev/hda1 /boot
> > /dev/hda2 /swap
> > /dev/hda3 /
> > 
> > i use rsync to copy data from hda to hdc
> > 
> > I use fedora5 boot disk to boot. 
> > mount /boot and / and chroot to /
> 
> did you mount /boot within the chroot? 

hmmm... what about the rest of the file system?  Is / all on one
partition? What are the permissions on /tmp? and does /bin exist at
this point?

> 
> 
> Yes, I did
> 
> 
> > but I got error to grub-install /dev/hda
> > 
> > You shouldn't call /sbin/grub-install. Please call /usr/sbin/grub-install 
> > instead!
> > tempnam: No such file or directory
> > /usr/sbin/grub-install: line 394: $log_file: ambigous redirect
> 
> what actual command did you enter? 
> 
> 
> grub-install /dev/hda
> 

I looked at the code and the issue is $log_file, which gets set early
on but could be changed in a number of circumstances. But they all
center around the use of /tmp and /bin/tempfile. I think somehow
you're getting a null $log_file and thus causing this ambiguous
redirect. 

I'm not sh pro by any stretch, so ymmv.

A


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Debian installer support on apt-cacher-ng

[Javi]

Hello,

I tried to install apt-cacher-ng (0.1.6). It works nice for xen-tools
and like repository for my sources.list, but when I configure debian
installer to use "apt_cacher_ng_IP:3142" and "ftp.debian.org/debian"
like base directory, it didn't work

debian installer says it couldn't find repository.

I read at #454190 , about apt-cacher supports the debian installer as
client, but I didn't find info about apt-cacher-ng support.

Thank you!


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gecko engine crashes after today's update

[Yevgen Yampolskiy]

Hello,

Can anybody tell me where I should file bug reports for gecko engine?
It crashes all the time after today's update (debian unstable).

Unfortunately, I don't know how to see update history. Is there any way 
to see which packages I've updated today?


Best,
Yevgen.


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[Larry Irwin]

Michael Pobega wrote:

What is d-u's preferred method of backups?


We have 300+ Linux servers in the field that we support.
We use BackupEdge from www.microlite.com
Our tech support staff has handled crashed systems very easily using their 
RecoverEdge bare metal recovery utilities since we started using it back in 
the days of SCO Xenix...

We have had trouble with Travan type tape drives. (bad spindle design...)
The IOmega REVdrives work well if you stay away from the older/cheaper MB's 
that confuse SATA and IDE...
I really like Dell's "REV" version, the RD1000. It's essentially a hotswap 
sata drive in a full-height bay. So you can upgrade to a larger backup 
medium without replacing the backup device...
And, if you get really large datasets to backup, the SCSI/SAS based LTO tape 
drives are available up to 800GB.


Larry 



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Re: OT: SATA Backplanes drivebays and caddies

[Bob]

Bob wrote:
Sorry for the OT post but I know a few round here are well informed on 
the storage industry.


I'm just about to migrate a bunch of PCs to SATA from IDE as the IDE 
drive caddies are failing [0] and I already have my server and a few 
PCs using SATA, what I'm looking for is a drivebay / backplane 
manufacturer that has 5, 4, 3 and 1 slot internal bays available that 
use the *same* tray / housing / caddie.


The tray / housing / caddie doesn't have to be rugged [1] or cover the 
whole drive, it would just be *really* convenient to be able to move 
drives around at will.


My search (below) hasn't helped much, has anyone round here got any 
suggestions?
sata "removable (disk | drive | harddrive) (caddy | bay | drawer | 
tray)"  single multi


Thanks

[0] I think all ATA removable bays take a bunch of liberties with the 
standard anyway and these were cheap and are old
[1] which I suppose by definition means it's not a caddie 

 crickets, cicadas and frogs 
Alternatively if you can think of a better forum for this post a link 
would also be appreciated.


Thanks


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Re: Preferred Backup Method?

[bruno]

Michael Pobega wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

What is d-u's preferred method of backups? Now that I'm running servers
on my system (Apache, MySQL, SSH, etc.) I need to find a good method of
backing up, because no matter how much security someone has things may
still go wrong.

So list your preferred methods of creating/restoring backups and the
pros and cons. Thanks!

- -- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative

programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman

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JyDyAiDY1HZ0d8n4xEY2tUM=
=ZBlN
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I use BackupPc. Easy to use, compression, hard linking of unchanged 
files => long history on smaller space, easy recovery of individual 
files (directly on the server or through tar/zip files), direct access 
to any archived file through archive browser real-life tested (both 
at home and at work)!!!


Possibility to dump to external support like DVD or tape, though I never 
tested that part. (I know I should have as real backup should always be 
AS EXTERNAL AS POSSIBLE)


Bruno


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Re: rsync to clone disk - Can it work? grub-install error

[chloe K]

Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 
02:56:57PM -0500, chloe K wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I install etch in hda
> then I add the hdc which have same partition but not same size in hda
> 
> /dev/hda1 /boot
> /dev/hda2 /swap
> /dev/hda3 /
> 
> i use rsync to copy data from hda to hdc
> 
> I use fedora5 boot disk to boot. 
> mount /boot and / and chroot to /

did you mount /boot within the chroot? 


Yes, I did


> but I got error to grub-install /dev/hda
> 
> You shouldn't call /sbin/grub-install. Please call /usr/sbin/grub-install 
> instead!
> tempnam: No such file or directory
> /usr/sbin/grub-install: line 394: $log_file: ambigous redirect

what actual command did you enter? 


grub-install /dev/hda



   
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 All new Yahoo! Mail - 
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Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.

Re: How to mount .iso file from NFS share?

[misiek_spam]

On Dec 5, 15:20 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Maybe file permission. I mean, on remote filesystem, the file belongs
> to, say, user 1002. But locally you are user 1001. Check this out...
> 
But I can access the file - as a user. However the user cannot mount .iso - it 
requires root priviledges, so I have to use sudo. But then it tells me that I 
have no permissions to the file. Does it mean that root has no rights to files 
on NFS mount? 

-- 
Michal R. Hoffmann

Re: permissions in /sbin

[John Hasler]

andy writes:
> OK - but according to RUTE sbin = "Superuser binary executables.

The "s" is for "system", not for "superuser".

> These are programs for system administration only. Only the root will
> have these executables in their path" ("Rute User's Tutorial &
> Exposition", Paul Sheer, 2002; p137).

Any user can add /sbin to her path.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: UPS

[Tom Allison]

seems that APC owners are either dominant to the Debian users list or  
just the kind of fanatic to answer an email about their UPS.


I have a Belkin (lame) and a TrippLite (not so lame) that are both  
"dumb" and I might keep for the VCR/Tivo/TV stuff.

But it seems that APC is the clear favorite?

On Dec 3, 2007, at 8:36 AM, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:


Tom Allison wrote:

I'm in need of a massive hardware upgrade...
I have UPS's that don't work for more than a minute -- dead  
battery.  But they are "dumb" boxes and want to replace them with  
smarter units rather then getting new batteries.  And I know  
Debian is a slightly different OS in that it doesn't really "do"  
the vendor binaries.  Is there something that is well supported  
and easily installed under Debian that I can use.  Years ago I  
purchased a Belkin UPS and found out later one that the binaries  
don't work with all the UPS and linux combinations -- any one want  
to guess what side of that line I fell on?
So -- what's a working combination of UPS and software?  What to  
avoid?


I have a Back-UPS LS 500 that uses the Debian apcupsd package.
It gets excellent support: http://www.apcupsd.org/

It also is a need of a new battery. And getting that in Oaxaca,  
Mexico is quite another story.


Hugo


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Re: UPS

[Tom Allison]

APC has two model lines.  Their BackUPS models give you basic  
functionality and a contact-closure interface for power failure and  
low battery alerts. Configuration is by DIP switches.


Their SmartUPS line adds scheduled self-tests, voltage buck/boost,  
and the ability to read line voltage, battery voltage, percent  
charge, and several other values through a serial interface.   
Configuration is through software.




Is the software configuration available in apscupsd or nut or ...?
The only hardware I've got around here as far as OSes goes is Linux  
and Mac and the UPS are all Linux (Macbooks).



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Re: OT: Socket A motherboard

[Cassiano Bertol Leal]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 12/04/07 11:30, Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 12/03/07 20:59, Sam Leon wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> And *none* will have SATA.
>>
> Do you mean sataII?  There are alot of socket A boards that have sata,
> the nf7-s v2 included.
 I'm surprised.  But then Wikipedia tells me that it's aka Socket
 462, so it's lasted longer than I thought it did.
>>> Why is it surprising? P4's are still alive and many have support for
>>> SATA.
>> Alive as in "still works"?  Or alive as in "still being fabricated"?
> 
> Alive as in "still work" and as in "many companies and individuals still
> largely use them" with an emphasis on *largely*.
> 
> I have not yet come across a company that would provide me with anything
> different from a P4 or a P4-HT for my workstation.
> 
>> Unless I'm totally out of the loop 32-bit Athlons and P4s haven't
>> been fabbed in more than a year.
> 
> "more than a year"? And when did SATA come out? Last

This was supposed to be: "Last month?"

> 
>>>I actually find my Athlon XP Barton to be more responsive than
>>> some P4-HT that I have used. Why would it not support SATA?
>>> Look at the A7N8X from ASUS, for example.
>>> If you google for "socket a" +"sata", you'll get many...
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=W09o
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Re: UPS

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Nate Duehr wrote:

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

My Back-UPS LS 500 is in need of a battery. How do I go about finding 
that locally? I.e what does one ask for? I know the battery it has 
and that is not sold locally.


I don't know the physical layout of the LS 500, but the packs are 
typically made up of standard sealed lead-acid batteries that are used 
for all sorts of purposes... fire alarms, industrial, etc.


To replace these is simple:  I just opened my UPS up, pulled out the 
pack -- which turned out to be two standard 12V sealed lead-acid 
batteries -- disconnected it (it's well marked for positive and 
negative, and in my case there was a "Y" cable with an in-line fuse 
holder between the two packs for current limiting), and took them to 
the local battery dealer.


I shopped a bit online and found batteries a couple of bucks cheaper 
(or really cheap in 10 packs - if someone has a lot of UPS's to 
refurbish), but the local store was convenient and their price was 
fair if I included shipping on the stuff from the Net dealers.


The local store also was nice because they took the two original dead 
batteries for recycling at no charge, and glued the two new batteries 
together to make up the "pack".


You could install them without gluing them together, for certain -- 
but it makes it a little easier to get them in and out of the unit 
with the front cover door down.


Slide the new "pack" in, reconnect the connectors and the in-line fuse 
holder that was hooked between the packs, and it was done.


APC also has a "trade-up" offer on their website where they'll give 
discounts on brand new units for turning in the old one (I believe 
they are even providing recycling services).  The prices weren't that 
great, but if you were out in the country-side and didn't have a local 
battery dealer, it'd be better than nothing.


If this is your UPS: 
 



They have links on that page for battery replacement "kits" with and 
without their software.  You only need the battery.


That's definitely a standard single sealed lead-acid battery.  They 
sell that "kit" to replace it, but you can get that battery just about 
anywhere... Looking at the photos, I think that is a 7Ah battery, but 
let's see... a little Google...


 



Yep.  7.5 Amp-Hour standard gel cell.

CDW wants $35.99 for the "official" APC branded replacement.

 



APC voids their "equipment protection" if you don't use theirs, 
supposedly...


If you're not worried about that, those batteries (if I got the right 
UPS above) are a piece of cake to find all over the place.


Make sure you recycle the old one.   Have fun.



Looks like I am looking for a 7 Amp-Hour 12 volts F2 spade terminals 
.250" sealed lead-acid battery


Hugo


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Re: UPS

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

David Brodbeck wrote:


On Dec 4, 2007, at 2:36 PM, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
Nate that's a very complete answer. Let me try to apply that to 
Oaxaca, Mexico. Thanks!


I can't provide any specific advice, because I don't live there.  But 
given the amount of manufacturing that goes on in Mexico these days, 
there must be electronic parts suppliers.  If you can figure out who the 
Mexican equivalent of Digi-Key is, you should be all set.





But the services... e.g.
http://www.ccsnet.com.mx/
http://www.imparoax.com.mx/

Hugo


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Re: OT: Socket A motherboard

[Cassiano Bertol Leal]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/04/07 11:30, Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
>> Ron Johnson wrote:
>>> On 12/03/07 20:59, Sam Leon wrote:
 Ron Johnson wrote:
> And *none* will have SATA.
>
 Do you mean sataII?  There are alot of socket A boards that have sata,
 the nf7-s v2 included.
>>> I'm surprised.  But then Wikipedia tells me that it's aka Socket
>>> 462, so it's lasted longer than I thought it did.
> 
>> Why is it surprising? P4's are still alive and many have support for
>> SATA.
> 
> Alive as in "still works"?  Or alive as in "still being fabricated"?

Alive as in "still work" and as in "many companies and individuals still
largely use them" with an emphasis on *largely*.

I have not yet come across a company that would provide me with anything
different from a P4 or a P4-HT for my workstation.

> Unless I'm totally out of the loop 32-bit Athlons and P4s haven't
> been fabbed in more than a year.

"more than a year"? And when did SATA come out? Last

>>I actually find my Athlon XP Barton to be more responsive than
>> some P4-HT that I have used. Why would it not support SATA?
> 
>> Look at the A7N8X from ASUS, for example.
> 
>> If you google for "socket a" +"sata", you'll get many...
> 
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wth+tH3NaXG16+EaQdLfrxs=
=fMdc
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How to find the font?

[Jan Willem Stumpel]

This question is not Debian-specific.

I am working in X (not in "text mode"), and some text is displayed
in some application; e.g. in iceweasel, but it could be something
else. So a part of my screen is filled with some text, in some
font, or in various fonts.

Is there any way to find out which fonts are actually being used?
I mean, ideally I would like to be able to select a part of the
displayed text, and then some application, daemon, or whatever,
would say, e.g.: "this is Freemono, at 16 points". Is this possible?

Regards, Jan


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aacraid and smp kernel: SCSI hang

[Kostas Magkos]

Greetings all,

Our main server is an Opteron system with an Adaptec SATA RAID 2410SA
controller and 4x 250GB Seagate Barracuda disks attached to it, forming
a RAID-5 and a RAID-0 container. The system is running sarge with the
latest 2.6.8 kernel (2.6.8-13-amd64-k8).

We recently upgraded the server with a second Opteron CPU. When we tried
to boot the system with the SMP kernel it gave the following messages
just after the login prompt and hung:

Nov 9 09:52:58 myhost kernel: aacraid: Host adapter reset request. SCSI
hang ?
Nov 9 09:52:58 myhost kernel: aacraid: Host adapter reset request. SCSI
hang ?
Nov 9 09:53:32 myhost kernel: aacraid: SCSI bus appears hung

Sarge 2.6.8 kernels contain aacraid 1.1.2-lk2. I managed to compile and
install version 1.1.5-2400 (downloaded from Adaptec's site) but without
any luck, the system still hangs.

Please note that aacraid 1.1.5-2400 has been used in the single CPU
system (i.e. before the addition of the second CPU) for quite some time,
  without any problems.

Has anyone else faced a similar situation?

A google search revealed this is an old bug, dated back to 2003 but with
no clear solution whatsoever.

Any help would be much appreciated. In the time being I have two
options, either remove the second cpu or remove the raid controller,
both of which suck :-).

Some technical details
---
Motherboard: Tyan Thunder K8WE
CPU: 2x AMD Opteron 246
RAM: 2x 1GB Kingston DDR PC3200 ECC
RAID Controller: Adaptec 2410SA
HDD: 4x 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 SATA

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -ra
Linux myhost -smp #1 Sat Jun 9 16:52:03 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux


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Re: fglrx-driver 8.43.2-1 doesnt detect FireGL5200 on Thinkpad Z61p

[Bruno Voigt]

Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 03 Dec 2007, Bruno Voigt wrote:
>   
>> robin putters wrote:
>> 
>>> Not yet, but work has started on 2D acceleration, and the driver is
>>> developing rapidly. In a couple of months(weeks?) time, you will have
>>> much better driver than vesa ever was, and probably better in 2D than
>>> fglrx. And you will be doing the radeonhd driver developers a huge
>>> favor by testing these drivers.
>>> Go ahead:
>>> # apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> Hi Robin, thanks for your hint.
>> I will certainly try this one and provide feedback.
>>
>> WR,
>> Bruno
>> 
>
> I just tried it in my Thinkpad Z61M (Mobile X1400) and it seems to be
> working well in 2D.
>
> Anthony

I've switch from vesa to the radonhd driver and it worked instantly on
my Z61p/FireGL5200.
Although I cannot see a difference.

Does anyone have success/experience with any driver and
+ switch to/from external monitor/beamer/projector (with different
resolution)
+ suspend2disk/ram

WR,
Bruno


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pam module (pam_exec)

[Anthony BERGER]

hi,

I wonder why the pam module pam_exec is not present in the package 
pam-modules (etch).


I would need this to test if a central authentication server (openldap) 
is present or not in order to bypass the ldap authentication in case of 
it is unavailable : the failover is very very long if the network is 
unreachable. (pam_ldap.so)



Maybe i need to write a pam module to test accesibility of the ldap 
server!!?
(for exemple : pam_isreachable.so nbtry=3 typetest=ping servertype=pam 
=> it would read the pam_ldap.conf and test the ping on all server)


is exist another solution?

thank you very much for your help.

by

Anthony


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ntpd restart on IP address change the Debian way

[Bob]

Is there such a thing?

When my firewall / dhcp server / ntp server gets a fresh IP address from 
my ISP the ntp daemon stops responding to requests.


This is a well know bug [0] and there are a lot of posts about it but no 
consensus on a work around.


Any help?

Thanks

[0] it's so old a well known it's about to get rebranded as a 'feature'.


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Re: fglrx-driver 8.43.2-1 doesnt detect FireGL5200 on Thinkpad Z61p

[Anthony Campbell]

On 03 Dec 2007, Bruno Voigt wrote:
> robin putters wrote:
> > Not yet, but work has started on 2D acceleration, and the driver is
> > developing rapidly. In a couple of months(weeks?) time, you will have
> > much better driver than vesa ever was, and probably better in 2D than
> > fglrx. And you will be doing the radeonhd driver developers a huge
> > favor by testing these drivers.
> > Go ahead:
> > # apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd
> >
> >   
> Hi Robin, thanks for your hint.
> I will certainly try this one and provide feedback.
> 
> WR,
> Bruno

I just tried it in my Thinkpad Z61M (Mobile X1400) and it seems to be
working well in 2D.

Anthony


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Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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