Re: can't umount automounted drives

[Dom]

On 02/02/11 15:08, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 05:45:47 +
> Dom  wrote:
>
>> On 02/02/11 04:28, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I've got udev and automount working very nicely, EXCEPT,
>>> regular users can't umount the mounted device.
>>>
>>> the strangest thing is that I'm sure I had it working at some point
>>> such that regular users COULD umount.
>>>
>>> The fstab has the user keyword in it.
>>>
>>> Strangely passing user in the automount mount options doesn't seem
>>> to help.
>>>
>>> Any ideas ?
>>>
>>
>> Have you tried putting "users" instead of "user" in the fstab or
>> automount options?
>>
>> This means any user can unmount the filesystem, not just the one who
>> mounted it.
>
> you are, of course, correct.

I suppose everyone has to right at least once in their life ;-)

>
> Nothing like having egg on your face archived in the mailing list for
> all time :-(

Done that myself quite a few times :-(

> Thank you,

Don't mention it.

Dom


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Evolution - copy link location

[Richard Hector]

Hi all,

I've seen this problem in squeeze (and ubuntu maverick).

I used to be able to right click -> copy link location in Evolution,
then middle click in iceweasel/ff, but this no longer works. It seems
that now it only goes to the clipboard, not the primary selection.

Anyone know how to fix (or at least revert) this behaviour?

Thanks,

Richard



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Re: can't umount automounted drives

[briand]

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:20:42 -0700
Dave Thayer  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 08:28:17PM -0800, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I've got udev and automount working very nicely, EXCEPT,
> > regular users can't umount the mounted device.
> > 
> 
> If you're talking about aotofs/automount, isn't the point that the
> filesystem is umounted without user interaction?  IOW, cd or open a
> file under the mountpoint, and the FS mounts. Close the file or cd out
> and the FS should umount itself after the timeout set in
> /etc/auto.master.

it's only unmounted after a timeout.  so for example if I simply copy a
bunch of files to a flash drive, it will not umount after the copy
completes.  for one thing the data may not get written because it's
sitting in io buffers.

you can't just yank the flash drive until the buffer is flushed.

so the best thing to do, I think, is to umount and wait for the
flashing light to stop, or busy wheel to go away, etc..

using the flush option for the mount command helps a lot.


Brian


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Re: can't umount automounted drives

[Dave Thayer]

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 08:28:17PM -0800, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've got udev and automount working very nicely, EXCEPT,
> regular users can't umount the mounted device.
> 

If you're talking about aotofs/automount, isn't the point that the
filesystem is umounted without user interaction?  IOW, cd or open a
file under the mountpoint, and the FS mounts. Close the file or cd out
and the FS should umount itself after the timeout set in
/etc/auto.master.

FWIW, when I'm testing automount-related issues I find having an xterm
running ``watch du'' to be very useful.

HTH

dt

-- 
Dave Thayer   | Whenever you read a good book, it's like the 
Denver, Colorado USA  | author is right there, in the room talking to 
d...@thayer-boyle.com | you, which is why I don't like to read 
  | good books. - Jack Handey "Deep Thoughts"


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

There's another, possibly very significant oddity.  Right now, when the
old kernel boots, it exhibits exactly the same symptoms for /dev/md0,
but not for the other arrays, the only obvious difference
being /dev/md0 is comprised entirely of disks whose udev names
are /dev/sdX, while the other arrays are built entirely from members
whose names are /dev/hdXY.  In the new kernel, all the drive names
are /dev/sdX.  For some reason, it is trying to assemble all the
members twice, the difference being the arrays assembled from PATA
targets are being stopped in the old kernel before the second attempt
to assemble the array, but not the new:

Dmesg | grep md from the old kernel:

[0.00] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-2.6.32-3-amd64
root=/dev/md2 ro quiet
[0.00] Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-2.6.32-3-amd64
root=/dev/md2 ro quiet
[2.411210] md: raid1 personality registered for level 1
[2.940328] md: raid6 personality registered for level 6
[2.940331] md: raid5 personality registered for level 5
[2.940332] md: raid4 personality registered for level 4
[2.948514] md: md1 stopped.
[2.951701] md: bind
[2.951933] md: bind
[2.953206] raid1: raid set md1 active with 2 out of 2 mirrors
[2.957738] md1: bitmap initialized from disk: read 1/1 pages, set 0
bits
[2.957741] created bitmap (1 pages) for device md1
[3.000642] md1: detected capacity change from 0 to 6292176896
[3.001942]  md1: unknown partition table


Compare that with the new kernel:
[0.00] Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64
root=/dev/md2 ro quiet
[0.748091] usb usb1: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ehci_hcd
[0.748547] ata1: SATA max UDMA/133 port i16@0xec00 bmdma 0xe400 irq
20
[0.748551] ata2: SATA max UDMA/133 port i16@0xe880 bmdma 0xe408 irq
20
[0.748553] ata3: PATA max UDMA/133 port i16@0xe800 bmdma 0xe410 irq
20
[0.806045] usb usb2: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ohci_hcd
[0.807649] ata8: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x1f0 ctl 0x3f6 bmdma 0xff00
irq 14
[0.807652] ata9: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0xff08
irq 15
[0.820043] usb usb3: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ehci_hcd
[0.882041] usb usb4: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ohci_hcd
[0.938057] usb usb5: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ohci_hcd
[0.994029] usb usb6: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ohci_hcd
[1.050029] usb usb7: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ohci_hcd
[   16.140763] md: bind
[   16.150006] md: bind
[   16.170380] md: bind
[   16.199653] md: array md1 already has disks!
[   16.225273] md: bind
[   16.349657] md: raid1 personality registered for level 1



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Re: Overwritten ALOM runtime image during Debian Net install - HELP :(

[RR]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:08 PM, RR  wrote:

>
>  On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Richard Mortimer 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 02/02/2011 17:55, RR wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> We think we have ruined the image that comes with the SC or something
>>> but we were trying to install Debian Linux on this V240. On the OBP we
>>> typed
>>>
>>> /ok boot new linux root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=10.1.3.1:/mnt/iso
>>> ip=10.1.3.11:10.1.3.1:10.1.3.254:255.255.255.0:SPARC01/
>>>
>>> Try adding one of the following to your boot commandline.
>>
>> console=ttyS0,19200
>> or
>> console=ttyS0,9600
>> or
>> console=ttyS0,115200
>>
>

>   Hi Richard.
> Thanks for the response. The problem is we have no clue where to actually
> type ANYTHING anymore as we never get to a point to be able to type
> anything. Note that ALL of this garbage appears before we can even get into
> the ALOM, so we're not even at the OBP to be able to give the machine any
> instructions re: serial port settings etc. We believe that upgrading the
> ALOM version could have been our salvation but even before this had
> happened, we'd spent time looking for the newer ALOM version but Oracle has
> now made all these things available ONLY to people with a support contract.
> These used to be freely available through sunsolve before. We've created a
> ticket in the Oracle support forums but no response so far :(
>

Richard, OMG!! You're a Genius!! So, we'd changed the Serial port settings
at the OBP to 19,200 but had seen NO change to anything. Typically, a
mismatch of console port settings, just makes the console
non-responsive till you get the settings at both end (the PC console port OR
a Serial/Console Server) the same. However, since we kept seeing the effect
of key presses on the screen (even though it was all garbage) we thought the
change didn't do anything. Anyhow, just to test your theory, we figured, OK,
so we did change the ttysa settings a while ago, let us try and change the
client side settings too again and see if that does anything and Voila!! We
have clear text on the screen again!! OMG, we spent4-5 hrs on trying to
figure this out!!

Thank you thank you thank you!


>
>
>>
>>> /Loading the runtime image... ¡¼å!ØÖ/
>>> /½ç/
>>> /Gûb/
>>>
>> This looks to me like the serial port settings that the kernel is using
>> are wrong. I don't remember what speed the ALOM uses for the serial port but
>> it is probably one of 19200, 9600 or 115200 as above.
>>
>
>
>
> It uses 9,600 by default. But we'd tried changing it to 19,200 but it
> didn't make any difference.
>
>
>
>> Its a long time since I used a V240 so you may have to play around to find
>> the right settings.
>> The settings are documented in Documentation/serial-console.txt in the
>> Linux kernel sources. See
>>
>> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/serial-console.txt;h=9a7bc8b3f479b2b82dbfa1056df060366dbafdec;hb=HEAD
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Richard
>>
>
>

Re: Overwritten ALOM runtime image during Debian Net install - HELP :(

[RR]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Richard Mortimer wrote:

>
>
> On 02/02/2011 17:55, RR wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We think we have ruined the image that comes with the SC or something
>> but we were trying to install Debian Linux on this V240. On the OBP we
>> typed
>>
>> /ok boot new linux root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=10.1.3.1:/mnt/iso
>> ip=10.1.3.11:10.1.3.1:10.1.3.254:255.255.255.0:SPARC01/
>>
>> Try adding one of the following to your boot commandline.
>
> console=ttyS0,19200
> or
> console=ttyS0,9600
> or
> console=ttyS0,115200
>
 Hi Richard.
Thanks for the response. The problem is we have no clue where to actually
type ANYTHING anymore as we never get to a point to be able to type
anything. Note that ALL of this garbage appears before we can even get into
the ALOM, so we're not even at the OBP to be able to give the machine any
instructions re: serial port settings etc. We believe that upgrading the
ALOM version could have been our salvation but even before this had
happened, we'd spent time looking for the newer ALOM version but Oracle has
now made all these things available ONLY to people with a support contract.
These used to be freely available through sunsolve before. We've created a
ticket in the Oracle support forums but no response so far :(


>
>> /Loading the runtime image... ¡¼å!ØÖ/
>> /½ç/
>> /Gûb/
>>
> This looks to me like the serial port settings that the kernel is using are
> wrong. I don't remember what speed the ALOM uses for the serial port but it
> is probably one of 19200, 9600 or 115200 as above.
>



It uses 9,600 by default. But we'd tried changing it to 19,200 but it didn't
make any difference.



> Its a long time since I used a V240 so you may have to play around to find
> the right settings.
> The settings are documented in Documentation/serial-console.txt in the
> Linux kernel sources. See
>
> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/serial-console.txt;h=9a7bc8b3f479b2b82dbfa1056df060366dbafdec;hb=HEAD
>
> Regards
>
> Richard
>

Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

martin f krafft wrote:

> also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.2047 +0100]:
>> ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid6 num-devices=10 metadata=01.2 name=Backup:0
>> UUID=431244d6:45d9635a:e88b3de5:92f30255
> 
> What's metadata=01.2. I suggest you remove the 0, except for this
> one line:

I'll give it a shot, although it shouldn't matter.  Note I didn't
create the line.  Mdadm did.  I suppose there could be a version
incompatibility between the two initrds, but there shouldn't be. Both
report the same version of mdadm.  Besides, if it were a problem, why
do they assemble at all?  How is it I can stop and then re-assemble the
arrays with no problems?  (Not to mention, how is it it works under
2.6.32-5?)

>> ARRAY /dev/md1 level=raid1 num-devices=2 metadata=0.90
>> UUID=4cde286c:0687556a:4d9996dd:dd23e701

I definitely know this won't matter, since md1 is not required once the
initrd is loaded.  Md1 is the boot array, containing GRUB, the kernel,
and of course the initrd.  It's not used once GRUB has done its work,
the kernel is live, and the RAM Disk is operational.  Md2 is the
critical array, at this point, and its failure to mount is what is
causing the boot to fail.

>> > And what does /proc/mdstat contain at this point.
>> 
>> Before I stop and re-start the arrays, all four show
>> inactive.
> 
> Are they degraded?

Nope.  100% clean, both when inactive and when active.  No drives
faulty or removed.  The arrays and the file systems are both pristine. 
Why md is assembling the arrays but not activating them is the
question.

> Also, judging from your dmesg output, you *do* have hardware
> problems.

Where?  I'm not seeing anything related to md or anything which would
cause the arrays not to start.

> Also, what version of mdadm are you using? Which package?

Debian "Squeeze".  Both the mdadm binary in the 2.6.32-5 and in
the /sbin/ directory of the root array report 3.1.2, which is the
version supported in the distro.


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 02:42:30PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> > PS As I have said to Chris, I think that your problem understanding what
> > we are saying may be semantic.
> 
> I don't think so, it's just I have another POV.

Isn't that the same thing?

-- 
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: help

[Joey Hess]

Camaleón wrote:
> Should you want to use sudo, you can select it with the expert install or 
> you can configure after the installation (if standard root login was 
> selected).

There is no need to use any expert install option with squeeze. Simply
follow the instructions it presents:

 You need to set a password for 'root', the system administrative
 account. [...]

 The root user should not have an empty password. If you leave this
 empty, the root account will be disabled and the system's initial user
 account will be given the power to become root using the "sudo"
 command.

 Root password: _

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 02:24:01PM +, Lisi wrote:
> 
> Chris - I am beginning to think that Chamaleón's problem understanding what 
> we 
> are on about, may be semantic.

I may be underestimating the knowledge that a newbie may have. But I
prefer to err on the side of caution. You quite often get an idea of
what their knowledge is by the content of their post.

If someone posts to this list they are (usually) looking for help. They
may be trying Debian/Linux for the first time and their experience may be
non-existant. It is difficult to see the "trees" if all you can see is
a "forest", etc.

There are some people who think "If the user doesn't have a clue, then
they shouldn't be using Debian." I can see both sides as I know a couple
of computer users who are thinking of trying Linux but are skeptical of
taking the leap and who I know would have no trouble once they "got into
it." In fact, once they "got into it" would most likely start
contributing.

If they are trying it for the first time, problems executing the
commands they are given could sway them to ditch it entirely?

-- 
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: which DVD to download?

[Brian]

On Wed 02 Feb 2011 at 22:36:37 +, Brian wrote:

> On Wed 02 Feb 2011 at 19:44:01 +, Camaleón wrote:
> 
> > Why LiveCD for installing? Any advantage over the standard install first 
> > CD image?
> 
> Without knowing what is on the first CD my answer is bound to be
> incomplete (any pointers to its contents?), but there are Live CDs
> specific to installing Gnome, KDE, XFCE and LXDE. In the context of the
> original question, if you require your basic install to have a desktop
> environment a Debian Live CD  seems more desirable in terms of time,
> effort and bandwidth.

And if I had looked closer at the directory listing I'd have seen CD-1
is in KDE and XFCE+LXDE flavours!


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RE: BIOS boot message. How to fix?

[owens]

>
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: m...@neidorff.com
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: RE: BIOS boot message. How to fix?
>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:29:55 -0500
>
>>I'm running kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 .  Recently I have started getting
>this 
>>informational message on boot:
>>
>>Your BIOS doesn't have a aperture memory hole.
>>Please enable the IOMMU option in the BIOS setup.
>>
>>The BIOS is ASUS M2N PV-VM ACPI BIOS R1201
>>
>>When I enter BIOS setup, I see no option for enabling the IOMMU
>option.  
>>Please tell me what I should be looking for and what I should change
>it to?
>>
>>FWIW, the system seems to boot normally.  I have found no glitches,
>but I like 
>>to keep ahead of this kind of problem.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
Mark
Do a google on "aperture memory hole" and you'll see lots of posts
with potential solutions (now that I/O apparently has a memory
management unit)
Larry
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>m
>>
>>



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Waiting for Squeeze - was: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 05:35:51PM EST, Gilbert Sullivan wrote:
> On 02/02/2011 01:10 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
> (...)

>> One trick I use is copy my back-up file (encrypted) to my cell
>> phone's micro-SD.. In the event disaster struck, I would either be
>> out of the house with my cell phone, or grab a few belongings
>> including said mobile before I rushed outside. The problem with that
>> is that it still has the original vfat .. formatting, and whatever it
>> is, it doesn't like 4G+ files either :-)

> People think I'm crazy, 

Oh, no... not at all... ;-)

> but, when I leave the house, I always carry a  disc wallet that holds
> the last year's worth of weekly full backups on  DVD+R. (Well,
> I probably am crazy, but this isn't a sign of it.)

I'm looking into implants.. I mean sticking non-volatile memory under my
skin in carefully selected areas of my body, in case I run into serious
trouble but am fortunate to end up only partially dismembered..
presumably with some form of Bluetooth or Wifi integration so I can
conveniently upload my backups...

> I also double the weekly backups every month, and I keep the monthly  
> second copy in a safe deposit box. I also rotate USB external drives  
> through that safe deposit box. 

Ah.. I detect a flaw... you mean you actually do not rotate safe deposit
boxes..? Are you serious..?

> This is only for the really important  data, though. Miscellaneous
> other stuff just resides on two systems and  an external drive.

> (...)

>> Apart from the cost of the medium... I am very suspicious of all the
>> hidden stuff that infects anything Blu-Ray.. And you're probably right..
>> may turn out to be unsuitable for data archiving.

> Yup, I'm probably going to stick to using dual layer DVDs and Blu-Ray  
> strictly for movies I've paid for.

> Be happy!

Yeah.. let's try that.

cj


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 01:04:58PM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > If the reply comes back with "su doesn't work" or "sudo doesn't
> > work", you can see they missed the point entirely and educate them
> > about what is "being root", the dangers of "being root", and how to
> > do it on various Debian-alike systems.
> 
> Full agreement!  These excellently presented reasons are why I use
> 'sudo' in my explanations and will continue to do so.

It would be interesting to know how many Ubuntu users ask advice on this
list. AFAIR, there have been a couple of posts from Ubuntu users because
they felt that they weren't getting much help from the Ubuntu
forums/lists.


-- 
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: Overwritten ALOM runtime image during Debian Net install - HELP :(

[Richard Mortimer]

On 02/02/2011 17:55, RR wrote:

Hi All,

We think we have ruined the image that comes with the SC or something
but we were trying to install Debian Linux on this V240. On the OBP we typed

/ok boot new linux root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=10.1.3.1:/mnt/iso
ip=10.1.3.11:10.1.3.1:10.1.3.254:255.255.255.0:SPARC01/


Try adding one of the following to your boot commandline.

console=ttyS0,19200
or
console=ttyS0,9600
or
console=ttyS0,115200




/Loading the runtime image... ¡¼å!ØÖ/
/½ç/
/Gûb/
This looks to me like the serial port settings that the kernel is using 
are wrong. I don't remember what speed the ALOM uses for the serial port 
but it is probably one of 19200, 9600 or 115200 as above.


Its a long time since I used a V240 so you may have to play around to 
find the right settings.
The settings are documented in Documentation/serial-console.txt in the 
Linux kernel sources. See

http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/serial-console.txt;h=9a7bc8b3f479b2b82dbfa1056df060366dbafdec;hb=HEAD

Regards

Richard


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Re: which DVD to download?

[Brian]

On Wed 02 Feb 2011 at 19:44:01 +, Camaleón wrote:

> Why LiveCD for installing? Any advantage over the standard install first 
> CD image?

Without knowing what is on the first CD my answer is bound to be
incomplete (any pointers to its contents?), but there are Live CDs
specific to installing Gnome, KDE, XFCE and LXDE. In the context of the
original question, if you require your basic install to have a desktop
environment a Debian Live CD  seems more desirable in terms of time,
effort and bandwidth.


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Gilbert Sullivan]

On 02/02/2011 01:10 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
(...)

One trick I use is copy my back-up file (encrypted) to my cell phone's
micro-SD.. In the event disaster struck, I would either be out of the
house with my cell phone, or grab a few belongings including said mobile
before I rushed outside. The problem with that is that it still has the
original vfat .. formatting, and whatever it is, it doesn't like 4G+
files either :-)
People think I'm crazy, but, when I leave the house, I always carry a 
disc wallet that holds the last year's worth of weekly full backups on 
DVD+R. (Well, I probably am crazy, but this isn't a sign of it.)


I also double the weekly backups every month, and I keep the monthly 
second copy in a safe deposit box. I also rotate USB external drives 
through that safe deposit box. This is only for the really important 
data, though. Miscellaneous other stuff just resides on two systems and 
an external drive.

(...)

Apart from the cost of the medium... I am very suspicious of all the
hidden stuff that infects anything Blu-Ray.. And you're probably right..
may turn out to be unsuitable for data archiving.
Yup, I'm probably going to stick to using dual layer DVDs and Blu-Ray 
strictly for movies I've paid for.


Be happy!


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Re: Installing Debian from NFS

[Freeman]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 05:12:05PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 01:39:59PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > In , RR wrote:
> > >this may be a very obvious one of those things that I should just  "Google"
> > >but given my last experience, and unsuccessful Googling, I figured maybe I
> > >should ask the community as to what the CORRECT way to install Debian on a
> > >Sun machine such that it uses the ISO/Distribution on my local NFS server 
> > >as
> > >opposed to just picking up the boot.img and then have the rest of it be
> > >downloaded from the Internet. I have a LOT of SUN machines to install and
> > >it'd be cool if I can just install them off the distro on the nfs server.
> > 
> > Rather than using NFS, it would be easier to use HTTP to serve your debian 
> > mirror, prehaps using approx or a similar apt proxy.  During the install 
> > you 
> > should be asked which Debian mirror to use.  Input the proper hostname and 
> > base url and all packages pulled in by APT will be via that mirror.
> > 
> I use apt-cacher-ng and I'm pretty happy with it.  It was easy to set
> up.  When I do a net install on a machine on my LAN, I just tell the
> installer that my proxy is:
> 
> http://myproxy:3142
> 
> If you already have debs downloaded, there is even a procedure
> documented to import those into your apt-cacher-ng.
> 

+1

As somebody who doesn't necessarily know what I am doing, I can testify to
this.

I use apt-cacher-ng to provide an easy way to store previous versions of
testing packages in case I need to back out of an upgrade (which I have done
more than once.)

I found setup and maintenance quite simple and it works flawlessly.  Not so
coincidentally, my two other machines can then upgrade more quickly from the
network.

-- 
Regards,
Freeman

"Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the
answer." --Somebody


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Re: Installing Debian from NFS

[Rob Owens]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 01:39:59PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In , RR wrote:
> >this may be a very obvious one of those things that I should just  "Google"
> >but given my last experience, and unsuccessful Googling, I figured maybe I
> >should ask the community as to what the CORRECT way to install Debian on a
> >Sun machine such that it uses the ISO/Distribution on my local NFS server as
> >opposed to just picking up the boot.img and then have the rest of it be
> >downloaded from the Internet. I have a LOT of SUN machines to install and
> >it'd be cool if I can just install them off the distro on the nfs server.
> 
> Rather than using NFS, it would be easier to use HTTP to serve your debian 
> mirror, prehaps using approx or a similar apt proxy.  During the install you 
> should be asked which Debian mirror to use.  Input the proper hostname and 
> base url and all packages pulled in by APT will be via that mirror.
> 
I use apt-cacher-ng and I'm pretty happy with it.  It was easy to set
up.  When I do a net install on a machine on my LAN, I just tell the
installer that my proxy is:

http://myproxy:3142

If you already have debs downloaded, there is even a procedure
documented to import those into your apt-cacher-ng.

-Rob


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[martin f krafft]

also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.2047 +0100]:
> ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid6 num-devices=10 metadata=01.2 name=Backup:0
> UUID=431244d6:45d9635a:e88b3de5:92f30255

What's metadata=01.2. I suggest you remove the 0, except for this
one line:

> ARRAY /dev/md1 level=raid1 num-devices=2 metadata=0.90
> UUID=4cde286c:0687556a:4d9996dd:dd23e701

> > And what does /proc/mdstat contain at this point.
> 
> Before I stop and re-start the arrays, all four show
> inactive.

Are they degraded?

Also, judging from your dmesg output, you *do* have hardware
problems.

Also, what version of mdadm are you using? Which package?

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"... (ethik und ästhetik sind eins.)"
   -- wittgenstein


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 02:27:50PM EST, Camaleón wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:44:43 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:

> > Doesn't say anything about double-layer.. or are they dual-sided?
> 
> Hum, OSTA calls them "double-sided" ;-P
> 
> http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa6.htm

Looks like I suspected right, then.. but anyway, what with all the good
things I'm hearing about DVD-RAM's, I think I'll pass.

cj


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Re: Installing Debian from NFS

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 13:49 -0500, RR wrote: 

> Hello,
>  
> this may be a very obvious one of those things that I should just
> "Google" but given my last experience, and unsuccessful Googling, I
> figured maybe I should ask the community as to what the CORRECT way to
> install Debian on a Sun machine such that it uses the ISO/Distribution
> on my local NFS server as opposed to just picking up the boot.img and
> then have the rest of it be downloaded from the Internet. I have a LOT
> of SUN machines to install and it'd be cool if I can just install them
> off the distro on the nfs server.


How about FAI ?  http://fai-project.org/

This is based around PXE Boot, NFS root file system for installer and
unattended install. Slightly fiddly to get started, but afterwards it is
smooth sailing.


>  
> The way my boot server is setup is, that it has tftp, /etc/ethers
> and /etc/hosts files all setup. I have the boot.img from Debian Lenny
> for sparc in /tftpboot and also have the hex and decimal/AF_INET
> format of the intended IP Address soft-linked to this boot.img in
> the /tftpboot directory i.e. 0A01030B -> boot.img. I also have the
> entire debian-DVD-lenny.iso available and is mounted on /mnt/iso by
> way of lofiadm so that /mnt/iso has the contents of the ISO and not
> the bundled iso image.
>  
> Now, how do I tell the installer to go pick it up from there? I have
> done a bit of research and all I see everywhere is mentions of some
> file called root.tar.gz and debian-installer and what not...but I
> can't figure out where do I get that from.
>  
> I have tried:
> ok> boot net
>  
> and
>  
> ok> boot net - install nfsroot=10.1.3.1:/mnt/iso
>  
> and
>  
> ok> boot net install
>  
> Any one wish to comment?
>  
> Thanks so much
> \RR
>  


-- 

Karl E. Jørgensen
IT Operations
Fizzback Group

Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 02:10:53PM EST, Curt Howland wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> =
> > I prefer to store data in hard disks, but DVD-RAM (DL) could be 
> worth
> > a try in the event I'd look for an "optical" backup solution.
> 
> Thanks, will check whether my drive supports them.
> =
> 
> Here's one way to find out:
> 
> =
> $ dmesg | grep -i dvd
> [4.391488] ata6.00: ATAPI: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7170A, 1.02, max 
> UDMA/66
> [4.398498] scsi 5:0:0:0: CD-ROMOptiarc  DVD RW 
> AD-7170A  1.02 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
> [5.065253] sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 48x/48x writer dvd-ram cd/rw 
> xa/form2 cdda tray
> =
Looks promising:

sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 62x/62x writer dvd-ram cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray

> 
> One thing that tripped me up when I first used DVD-RAM is that it is 
> unbelievably SLOW. When I thought the system was done writing, it 

Ouch.. I read something in wikipedia re: fast media not being sold in
the US..

> 
> Also, don't buy cheap. For all their "20 year archive" design, I've 
> had files lost on three different DVD-RAM disks, something I never 

Ah.. good to know. Never trusted optical drives in the first place.

There's an up-front cost involved, but provided I create ext2
partitions, it looks like SD cards might be the better solution. 

Thanks,

cj

Paul.. I think you sent your post to my personal e-mail rather than the
list, somehow.. so I cannot use your message to reply to the list
without unseemly contortions :-)

In any event, I also create and store my backups on a HDD.. and ‘once in
a while’.. that's roughly every month when I remember.. copy the files
to optical media. Not sure it's worth the trouble but that's my lot.. On
the 2-3 occasions where I needed to take a look at an earlier state of
my system, I used the disk versions of the backups.. but then what
happens if/when your/my house is struck by lightning, flooded, bombed,
repossessed.. etc..? 

I think the sd card on my cell-phone is a pretty good solution after
all.. fast.. reliable.. I hope :-) .. hassle-free (so I'm less likely to
skip the routine).. effective.. since it's highly unlikely I lose my
phone and my house at the same time.. relatively safe physically, with
the card tucked away in the entrails of my cell phone.. and with decent
encryption.. not likely any thieving THD will get to my PINs and stuff
before my credit cards expire. And pretty economical too, since the lone
16GB card I already own should suffice for years to come.

Thanks,

cj


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

Here is the output of dmesg under the new kernel:

[4.228353] ata4.04: hard resetting link
[4.564319] ata4.04: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 320)
[4.564375] ata4.05: hard resetting link
[4.900300] ata4.05: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 320)
[4.939162] ata4.00: ATA-8: WDC WD15EADS-00R6B0, 01.00A01, max
UDMA/133
[4.939164] ata4.00: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[4.943192] ata4.00: configured for UDMA/100
[4.946435] ata4.01: ATA-8: WDC WD15EADS-00R6B0, 01.00A01, max
UDMA/133
[4.946438] ata4.01: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[4.950727] ata4.01: configured for UDMA/100
[4.955783] ata4.02: ATA-8: WDC WD15EADS-00R6B0, 01.00A01, max
UDMA/133
[4.955785] ata4.02: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[4.961792] ata4.02: configured for UDMA/100
[4.963501] ata4.03: ATA-8: WDC WD15EADS-00P8B0, 01.00A01, max
UDMA/133
[4.963503] ata4.03: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[4.965305] ata4.03: configured for UDMA/100
[4.965365] ata4: EH complete
[4.965449] scsi 3:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EADS-00R
01.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[4.965585] scsi 3:1:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EADS-00R
01.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[4.965707] scsi 3:2:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EADS-00R
01.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[4.965832] scsi 3:3:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EADS-00P
01.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[6.380157] usb-storage: device scan complete
[6.380626] scsi 13:0:0:0: Direct-Access SanDisk  SanDisk Cruzer  
8.02 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS
[6.380996] scsi 13:0:0:1: CD-ROMSanDisk  SanDisk Cruzer  
8.02 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
[7.076030] ata5: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 0)
[7.076258] ata5.15: Port Multiplier 1.1, 0x1095:0x3726 r23, 6 ports,
feat 0x1/0x9
[7.092219] ata5.00: hard resetting link
[7.428322] ata5.00: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 320)
[7.428352] ata5.01: hard resetting link
[7.764293] ata5.01: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
[7.764320] ata5.02: hard resetting link
[8.100323] ata5.02: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
[8.100353] ata5.03: hard resetting link
[8.436319] ata5.03: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
[8.436348] ata5.04: hard resetting link
[8.772318] ata5.04: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 320)
[8.772374] ata5.05: hard resetting link
[9.108293] ata5.05: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 320)
[9.110465] ata5.00: ATA-8: WDC WD15EARS-00Z5B1, 80.00A80, max
UDMA/133
[9.110468] ata5.00: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[9.113055] ata5.00: configured for UDMA/100
[9.115434] ata5.01: ATA-8: WDC WD15EARS-00Z5B1, 80.00A80, max
UDMA/133
[9.115436] ata5.01: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[9.117420] ata5.01: configured for UDMA/100
[9.11] ata5.02: ATA-8: WDC WD15EARS-00Z5B1, 80.00A80, max
UDMA/133
[9.120001] ata5.02: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[9.121969] ata5.02: configured for UDMA/100
[9.124597] ata5.03: ATA-8: WDC WD15EADS-00P8B0, 01.00A01, max
UDMA/133
[9.124600] ata5.03: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[9.127144] ata5.03: configured for UDMA/100
[9.127204] ata5: EH complete
[9.127291] scsi 4:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EARS-00Z
80.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[9.127469] scsi 4:1:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EARS-00Z
80.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[9.127593] scsi 4:2:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EARS-00Z
80.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[9.127705] scsi 4:3:0:0: Direct-Access ATA  WDC WD15EADS-00P
01.0 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[   11.252029] ata6: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 0)
[   11.252255] ata6.15: Port Multiplier 1.1, 0x1095:0x3726 r23, 6 ports,
feat 0x1/0x9
[   11.268197] ata6.00: hard resetting link
[   11.604322] ata6.00: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 320)
[   11.604353] ata6.01: hard resetting link
[   11.940321] ata6.01: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 320)
[   11.940378] ata6.02: hard resetting link
[   12.276293] ata6.02: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
[   12.276320] ata6.03: hard resetting link
[   12.612321] ata6.03: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 320)
[   12.612377] ata6.04: hard resetting link
[   12.948321] ata6.04: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 320)
[   12.948378] ata6.05: hard resetting link
[   13.284318] ata6.05: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 320)
[   13.287633] ata6.00: ATA-8: WDC WD15EADS-00P8B0, 01.00A01, max
UDMA/133
[   13.287635] ata6.00: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[   13.290246] ata6.00: configured for UDMA/100
[   13.292122] ata6.02: ATA-8: WDC WD15EARS-00Z5B1, 80.00A80, max
UDMA/133
[   13.292124] ata6.02: 2930277168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth
31/32)
[   13.294114] ata6.02: configured for UDMA/1

Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

martin f krafft wrote:

> also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.1923 +0100]:
>> I rather suspected that might be the case.  Taking a quick look at
>> the /dev directory, the drive targets have changed from /hdX to
>> /sdX, and are now way at the end of the list, rather than "a" and
>> "b". Now that really shouldn't give mdadm any grief, but I think
>> it is.
> 
> Should not.
> Show me your mdadm.conf!

'Very straightforward:
DEVICE partitions
HOMEHOST 
ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid6 num-devices=10 metadata=01.2 name=Backup:0
UUID=431244d6:45d9635a:e88b3de5:92f30255
ARRAY /dev/md1 level=raid1 num-devices=2 metadata=0.90
UUID=4cde286c:0687556a:4d9996dd:dd23e701
ARRAY /dev/md2 level=raid1 num-devices=2 metadata=01.2 name=Backup:2
UUID=d45ff663:9e53774c:6fcf9968:21692025
ARRAY /dev/md3 level=raid1 num-devices=2 metadata=01.2 name=Backup:3
UUID=51d22c47:10f58974:0b27ef04:5609d357

 
>> Mdstat and dmadm -D both show all the arrays inactive, but if
>> I try to assemble them, it says they are all in use.
> 
> How do you assemble them?

I have to stop them (mdadm -S /dev/mdX), at which point assembly works
via `mdadm --assemble --scan`, or of course I can specify the array to
assemble.

> And what does /proc/mdstat contain at this point.

Before I stop and re-start the arrays, all four show inactive.  After 
I manually assemble the arrays, they all show active (auto-read-only).

> Also, show
> 
>   ls -l /dev/md* /dev/sd*

Something is also wrong with this busybox's implementation of `more`,
so it's hard to see all of any sufficiently verbose output.  Suffice to
say the block devices (md0 - 3, sda - k, and sdl1 -3 plus sdm1 - 3) are
all there.


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Re: help

[Bob Proulx]

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> "sudo " is shorter than saying "as the root user: ".  "su -c " is
> longer than "sudo ".  Explaining how and when to "su -" and "exit"
> is usually longer than any of them.  None of them are correct on all
> systems.
> 
> So, it's not about being correct.  It's about being both terse and 
> descriptive at the same time.
> 
> If the reply comes back with "su doesn't work" or "sudo doesn't
> work", you can see they missed the point entirely and educate them
> about what is "being root", the dangers of "being root", and how to
> do it on various Debian-alike systems.

Full agreement!  These excellently presented reasons are why I use
'sudo' in my explanations and will continue to do so.

Bob


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Re: Can't reboot after power failure (RAID problem?)

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <4d49816b.1040...@alcor.concordia.ca>, David Gaudine wrote:
>I have one more question, just out of curiousity so bottom priority.
>Why does this work?  mdadm.conf is in the initramfs which is in /boot
>which is on /dev/md0, but /dev/md0 doesn't exist until the arrays are
>assembled, which requires mdadm.conf.

Finding the initramfs on disk and copying it into RAM is not actually done by 
the kernel.  It is done by the boot loader, the same way the boot loader finds 
the kernel image on disk on copies it into RAM.

As such, it doesn't use kernel features to load the initramfs.  There are a 
number of techniques that boot loaders take to be able to do this "magic".  
GRUB normally uses the gap between the partition table and the first partition 
to store enough modules to emulate the kernel's dm/md layer and one or more of 
the kernel's file system modules in order to do the loading.  If those modules 
are not available or not in sync with how the kernel handles things, GRUB 
could fail to read the kernel image or initramfs or it could think it read 
both and transfer control to a "kernel" that is just random data from the 
disk.
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b...@iguanasuicide.net   ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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Re: can't umount automounted drives

[Terence]

On 2 February 2011 15:08,   wrote:

> you are, of course, correct.
>
> Nothing like having egg on your face archived in the mailing list for
> all time :-(
>

I'm glad you've joined me in that (I mean "us" for we are legion...)!
We who live should learn, and this list encourages learning.

So thank you for asking the question- I didn't know the difference an
"s" would make!

Terence


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Re: help

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <20110202113302.GH3865@fischer>, Chris Bannister wrote:
>On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:37:05AM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>> In <20110131040038.GA3315@fischer>, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> >On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>> >> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
>> >> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
>> >
>> >Oh!  ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
>> >doing, which seems a bit backwards.
>> 
>> I maintain that experts will be more likely to use sudo than su.  It
>> provides better granularity and helps avoid password sharing.  A password
>> shared is a password compromised.
>
>Right. But being the expert you probably won't be asking questions where
>the answer is something like "sudo "

It's more rare, but it's not unheard of.  My google-fu keeps most of my 
questions off the list anyway.

"sudo " is shorter than saying "as the root user: ".  "su -c " is longer than 
"sudo ".  Explaining how and when to "su -" and "exit" is usually longer than 
any of them.  None of them are correct on all systems.

So, it's not about being correct.  It's about being both terse and 
descriptive at the same time.

If the reply comes back with "su doesn't work" or "sudo doesn't work", you 
can see they missed the point entirely and educate them about what is "being 
root", the dangers of "being root", and how to do it on various Debian-alike 
systems.
-- 
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Re: which DVD to download?

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:05:24 +, Brian wrote:

> On Wed 02 Feb 2011 at 16:03:44 +, Camaleón wrote:
> 
>> Agree. With no Internet connection I would go for the first CD or
>> better yet, the first DVD.
>> 
>> Last time I used "netinst" image fitted in a mini-CD (~210 MiB) which
>> allowed me to install a bare system but not a full desktop metapackage,
>> IIRC.
> 
> Internet access is absent whichever method, CD, DVD or netinst.iso, is
> used with d-i. So the choice comes down to how bare/basic an initial
> install has to be prior to adding further packages when connectivity is
> available. If a full, working desktop is a requirement I'd be be looking
> at a Debian Live iso rather than CD-1 or DVD-1.

Why LiveCD for installing? Any advantage over the standard install first 
CD image?

Greetings,

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Re: Installing Debian from NFS

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In , RR wrote:
>this may be a very obvious one of those things that I should just  "Google"
>but given my last experience, and unsuccessful Googling, I figured maybe I
>should ask the community as to what the CORRECT way to install Debian on a
>Sun machine such that it uses the ISO/Distribution on my local NFS server as
>opposed to just picking up the boot.img and then have the rest of it be
>downloaded from the Internet. I have a LOT of SUN machines to install and
>it'd be cool if I can just install them off the distro on the nfs server.

Rather than using NFS, it would be easier to use HTTP to serve your debian 
mirror, prehaps using approx or a similar apt proxy.  During the install you 
should be asked which Debian mirror to use.  Input the proper hostname and 
base url and all packages pulled in by APT will be via that mirror.

>The way my boot server is setup is, that it has tftp, /etc/ethers and
>/etc/hosts files all setup. I have the boot.img from Debian Lenny for sparc
>in /tftpboot and also have the hex and decimal/AF_INET format of the
>intended IP Address soft-linked to this boot.img in the /tftpboot directory
>i.e. 0A01030B -> boot.img. I also have the entire debian-DVD-lenny.iso
>available and is mounted on /mnt/iso by way of lofiadm so that /mnt/iso has
>the contents of the ISO and not the bundled iso image.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think the normal ISOs are suitable for net 
booting.  I've no experience with the boot process on Suns though; I have 
minimal PARISC experience and them the rest is PC BIOS booting.  ISTR there 
was a special Debian "netboot" image (not "netinst") that was to be used.

>Now, how do I tell the installer to go pick it up from there? I have done a
>bit of research and all I see everywhere is mentions of some file called
>root.tar.gz and debian-installer and what not...but I can't figure out where
>do I get that from.

Perhaps hes Squeeze release notes for your architecture might contain more 
information about how to boot Debian on your hardware and/or links to further 
documentation.

HTH
-- 
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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:44:43 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:18:06AM EST, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:07:11 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:
>> 
>> (...)
> 
>> > Do some of you people still use DVD's as an external medium for
>> > backups..?
> 
>> I prefer to store data in hard disks, but DVD-RAM (DL) could be worth a
>> try in the event I'd look for an "optical" backup solution.
> 
> hwinfo has storage.cdrom.dvdram=true.. which looks promising..
> 
> Doesn't say anything about double-layer.. or are they dual-sided?

Hum, OSTA calls them "double-sided" ;-P

http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa6.htm

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Curt Howland]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


=
> I prefer to store data in hard disks, but DVD-RAM (DL) could be 
worth
> a try in the event I'd look for an "optical" backup solution.

Thanks, will check whether my drive supports them.
=

Here's one way to find out:

=
$ dmesg | grep -i dvd
[4.391488] ata6.00: ATAPI: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7170A, 1.02, max 
UDMA/66
[4.398498] scsi 5:0:0:0: CD-ROMOptiarc  DVD RW 
AD-7170A  1.02 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[5.065253] sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 48x/48x writer dvd-ram cd/rw 
xa/form2 cdda tray
=

One thing that tripped me up when I first used DVD-RAM is that it is 
unbelievably SLOW. When I thought the system was done writing, it 
really needed another couple of HOURS to finish. Really.

Also, don't buy cheap. For all their "20 year archive" design, I've 
had files lost on three different DVD-RAM disks, something I never 
had with regular DVD-R.

Curt-

- -- 
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of their consciences.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

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=uMFe
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: which DVD to download?

[Brian]

On Wed 02 Feb 2011 at 16:03:44 +, Camaleón wrote:

> Agree. With no Internet connection I would go for the first CD or better 
> yet, the first DVD.
> 
> Last time I used "netinst" image fitted in a mini-CD (~210 MiB) which  
> allowed me to install a bare system but not a full desktop metapackage, 
> IIRC.

Internet access is absent whichever method, CD, DVD or netinst.iso, is
used with d-i. So the choice comes down to how bare/basic an initial
install has to be prior to adding further packages when connectivity is
available. If a full, working desktop is a requirement I'd be be looking
at a Debian Live iso rather than CD-1 or DVD-1.


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[martin f krafft]

also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.1923 +0100]:
> I rather suspected that might be the case.  Taking a quick look at
> the /dev directory, the drive targets have changed from /hdX to
> /sdX, and are now way at the end of the list, rather than "a" and
> "b". Now that really shouldn't give mdadm any grief, but I think
> it is.

Should not.
Show me your mdadm.conf!

> Mdstat and dmadm -D both show all the arrays inactive, but if
> I try to assemble them, it says they are all in use.

How do you assemble them?

And what does /proc/mdstat contain at this point.

Also, show

  ls -l /dev/md* /dev/sd*

Thanks,

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
there are two groups of people in the world: those who believe that
the world can be divided into two groups of people, and those who
don't.


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Re: opera copy/paste

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:33:33 -0500, Paul Cartwright wrote:

> On 02/02/2011 09:33 AM, Camaleón wrote:
>> It only happens within Opera? Try to launch it with another user that
>> has a clean .opera profile ("gksu opera" will open Opera as "root") and
>> check if the copy/paste weird behaviour remains.
>>
>>
> no it does not happen under KDE with my wifes' account. With hers I
> started up opera, copied the URL & pasted it right into Chrome.. yuck,
> what does that mean?

Try with another account that uses GNOME, to discard a problem with a 
concrete DE or a problem localized in your user's profile.

BTW, I just have installed today (in Squeeze+GNOME) all major browsers, 
that is: Firefox 4 (beta), Google Chrome and Opera (as part of my web 
developer tasks I need to check the look&feel&run of the websites) and I 
did not experience your error within Opera :-?

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Display or graphics problems

[Dr. Ed Morbius]

on 19:26 Wed 02 Feb, 陈飞 (yinhuleop...@yeah.net) wrote:
> Just install success, reboots display shows "input does not support"
> 
> Designates mode can enter, single user mode startx after, display
> shows "input does not support", Windows can be activated.
> 
> Installation is AMD64 5.07, showing the hd4250 -, display yi beauty
> GuanJie) ENV1923 Michelson (LCD1923 (19.1 inches)

Given your user name glyph and IP address, I'm going to guess that
Chinese character support (and possibly internationalization) are
missing from your system.

If this list can't help you, you might find more useful (and
native-language) support on debian-chinese-gb:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/


Alternately, you may have an X.org problem, in which case posting
/var/log/Xorg.0.log would be helpful.

-- 
Dr. Ed Morbius
Chief Scientist
Krell Power Systems Unlimited


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Installing Debian from NFS

[RR]

Hello,

this may be a very obvious one of those things that I should just  "Google"
but given my last experience, and unsuccessful Googling, I figured maybe I
should ask the community as to what the CORRECT way to install Debian on a
Sun machine such that it uses the ISO/Distribution on my local NFS server as
opposed to just picking up the boot.img and then have the rest of it be
downloaded from the Internet. I have a LOT of SUN machines to install and
it'd be cool if I can just install them off the distro on the nfs server.

The way my boot server is setup is, that it has tftp, /etc/ethers and
/etc/hosts files all setup. I have the boot.img from Debian Lenny for sparc
in /tftpboot and also have the hex and decimal/AF_INET format of the
intended IP Address soft-linked to this boot.img in the /tftpboot directory
i.e. 0A01030B -> boot.img. I also have the entire debian-DVD-lenny.iso
available and is mounted on /mnt/iso by way of lofiadm so that /mnt/iso has
the contents of the ISO and not the bundled iso image.

Now, how do I tell the installer to go pick it up from there? I have done a
bit of research and all I see everywhere is mentions of some file called
root.tar.gz and debian-installer and what not...but I can't figure out where
do I get that from.

I have tried:
ok> boot net

and

ok> boot net - install nfsroot=10.1.3.1:/mnt/iso

and

ok> boot net install

Any one wish to comment?

Thanks so much
\RR

Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

martin f krafft wrote:

> also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.1748 +0100]:
>> No, that's the whole point.  It locks up.  It doesn't just
>> launch the
>> BusyBox shell, awaiting a command.  It doesn't respond to the
>> keyboard.
> 
> So you likely do not have the required USB modules for the keyboard
> in the initramfs. I suggest that you recreate the initramfs after
> changing MODULES="most" in /etc/initramfs/mkinitramfs.conf

Ah!  Thanks.  That worked.  Well, it got the console working.  Now to
find the problem...

>> I thought I made that clear when I said, "...hangs completely."
>> If that weren't the case, I could have investigated further
>> myself. Without a responding system, though, and no way to save
>> logs, I'm stuck.
> 
> Fair enough, although I doubt that it actually hangs. It just
> doesn't know how to deal with your keyboard.

I rather suspected that might be the case.  Taking a quick look at
the /dev directory, the drive targets have changed from /hdX to /sdX,
and are now way at the end of the list, rather than "a" and "b". Now
that really shouldn't give mdadm any grief, but I think it is.

Mdstat and dmadm -D both show all the arrays inactive, but if I try to
assemble them, it says they are all in use.


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Re: BIOS boot message. How to fix?

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:29:55 -0500, Mark Neidorff wrote:

> I'm running kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 .  Recently I have started getting
> this informational message on boot:

By "recently" you mean "suddenly and by no apparent reason"?

> Your BIOS doesn't have a aperture memory hole. Please enable the IOMMU
> option in the BIOS setup.
> 
> The BIOS is ASUS M2N PV-VM ACPI BIOS R1201
> 
> When I enter BIOS setup, I see no option for enabling the IOMMU option.
> Please tell me what I should be looking for and what I should change it
> to?
> 
> FWIW, the system seems to boot normally.  I have found no glitches, but
> I like to keep ahead of this kind of problem.

Hum... some motherboards allow to enable what is called "memory 
remapping" that "returns" to the OS all the available ram memory used for 
AGP or PCI devices well, sort of :-)

You have to look for that option in your BIOS, but notice that is not 
always present (look also for any BIOS update that add this capability or 
ask directly to Asus).

Greetings,

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Re: Upgrade stable -> testing -- with errors

[Brad Alexander]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Sven Joachim  wrote:
>
> Well, this might actually be your problem, try downgrading to 4.4.5-8
> from Squeeze.  Apparently the experimental libstdc++6 version does not
> work with Lenny's glibcš.

That worked to get me moving forward again. I had to install
gcc-base-4.4 and libstdc++6 from squeeze.

> First you need to get apt and other important stuff that's linked
> against libstdc++6 working, then we'll see further.

Thanks a million, Sven,
--b


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:18:06AM EST, Camaleón wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:07:11 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:
> 
> (...)

> > Do some of you people still use DVD's as an external medium for
> > backups..?

> I prefer to store data in hard disks, but DVD-RAM (DL) could be worth
> a try in the event I'd look for an "optical" backup solution.

hwinfo has storage.cdrom.dvdram=true.. which looks promising.. 

Doesn't say anything about double-layer.. or are they dual-sided?

Thanks,

cj


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Re: Upgrade stable -> testing -- with errors

[Sven Joachim]

On 2011-02-02 19:21 +0100, Brad Alexander wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Sven Joachim  wrote:
>> On 2011-02-02 18:42 +0100, Brad Alexander wrote:
>>
>>> I may have just shot myself in the foot, but I decided to go ahead and
>>> upgrade my wife's machine. It was running stable (lenny atm) and I
>>> wanted to get it to testing. Its running trinity as well.
>>>
>>> So I updated the apt-conf to
>>>
>>> APT::Default-Release "testing";
>>>
>>> (My base sources.list includes links for all three releases), updated
>>> the trinity list from the lenny one to the squeeze one (the ppa
>>> format), and I ran aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade.
>>>
>>> Things went well for about 30 minutes, then crashed. Now I am getting
>>>
>>> [root@galaxy archives]# dpkg --configure -a
>>
>> This might not work, "apt-get -f install" would be a better try to fix
>> things up.
>
> Nope, it jumps straight to the missing symbol:
>
> [root@galaxy archives]# apt-get -f install
> apt-get: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
> symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4

Stupid me, I forgot apt-get is itself linked against libstdc++6.

>> Which version of libstdc++6 is installed on your system?
>
> 4.6-20110125-1, which I installed by hand when I saw the nature of the
> problem, however, it didn't change...

Well, this might actually be your problem, try downgrading to 4.4.5-8
from Squeeze.  Apparently the experimental libstdc++6 version does not
work with Lenny's glibc¹.

>> Try "apt-get -f install".  If that does not work, manually unpack the
>> libstdc++6 package from squeeze.
>
> I did that. Do I need to upgrade the dev package too?

First you need to get apt and other important stuff that's linked
against libstdc++6 working, then we'll see further.

Sven


¹ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=584572


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Re: opera copy/paste

[Paul Cartwright]

On 02/02/2011 09:33 AM, Camaleón wrote:

It only happens within Opera? Try to launch it with another user that has
a clean .opera profile ("gksu opera" will open Opera as "root") and check
if the copy/paste weird behaviour remains.
   


no it does not happen under KDE with my wifes' account. With hers I 
started up opera, copied the URL & pasted it right into Chrome.. yuck, 
what does that mean?


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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 17:43:59 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 17:15:13 Camaleón wrote:
>> I don't think the main point of this thread is about "newbie"
>> definition. I've only pointed out that:
> 
> It was in origin - which is what I was sticking to.  So what we were
> failing to meet on was what the thread was about!

But I din't reply to anything about that. I started participating in this 
thread by replying to Chris, mainly for explaining the "expert" install 
and what that option was for.

> A self avowed newbie (and the assertion appeared credible!) had asked
> for help - he was the OP of this thread - and been given advice to use
> an application which a newbie wouldn't have (since it is not in the
> default install) to install a package that doesn't exist, since he had
> said that he uses Lenny, and it isn't in Lenny.
> 
> That is where I have been coming from throughout.  A newbie who was
> given what, for him, was totally inappropriate advice.

Threads like this tend to fork into many small "sub-threads", where 
people starts talking on other things maybe not straight-related to the 
first OP message, that's normal. And that was my case. If I would have 
wanted to reply on that, I had replied to the OP directly :-)

> I have no difficulty at all in agreeing with you about the capabilities
> of Debian!!  Just that they are inappropriate for this particular OP.
> 
> So I hope we have reached agreement??  I am now clear that all we were
> disagreeing over was the OP and therefore the purpose of the thread. :-)
> 
> Pax??

Okay, but don't get used to it X-)

Greetings,

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BIOS boot message. How to fix?

[Mark Neidorff]

I'm running kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 .  Recently I have started getting this 
informational message on boot:

Your BIOS doesn't have a aperture memory hole.
Please enable the IOMMU option in the BIOS setup.

The BIOS is ASUS M2N PV-VM ACPI BIOS R1201

When I enter BIOS setup, I see no option for enabling the IOMMU option.  
Please tell me what I should be looking for and what I should change it to?

FWIW, the system seems to boot normally.  I have found no glitches, but I like 
to keep ahead of this kind of problem.

Thanks,

Mark


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Re: Upgrade stable -> testing -- with errors

[Brad Alexander]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Sven Joachim  wrote:
> On 2011-02-02 18:42 +0100, Brad Alexander wrote:
>
>> I may have just shot myself in the foot, but I decided to go ahead and
>> upgrade my wife's machine. It was running stable (lenny atm) and I
>> wanted to get it to testing. Its running trinity as well.
>>
>> So I updated the apt-conf to
>>
>> APT::Default-Release "testing";
>>
>> (My base sources.list includes links for all three releases), updated
>> the trinity list from the lenny one to the squeeze one (the ppa
>> format), and I ran aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade.
>>
>> Things went well for about 30 minutes, then crashed. Now I am getting
>>
>> [root@galaxy archives]# dpkg --configure -a
>
> This might not work, "apt-get -f install" would be a better try to fix
> things up.

Nope, it jumps straight to the missing symbol:

[root@galaxy archives]# apt-get -f install
apt-get: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4

>> Setting up menu (2.1.41) ...
>> update-menus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
>> symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4
>
> Which version of libstdc++6 is installed on your system?

4.6-20110125-1, which I installed by hand when I saw the nature of the
problem, however, it didn't change...

>> dpkg: error processing menu (--configure):
>>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
>> Setting up python2.6 (2.6.6-8+b1) ...
>> update-menus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
>> symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4
>> dpkg: error processing python2.6 (--configure):
>>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libpython2.6:
>>  libpython2.6 depends on python2.6 (= 2.6.6-8+b1); however:
>>   Package python2.6 is not configured yet.
>> dpkg: error processing libpython2.6 (--configure):
>>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
>> Errors were encountered while processing:
>>  menu
>>  python2.6
>>  libpython2.6
>>
>> and I can't get past the undefined symbol. Can anyone suggest what I
>> need to get this done?
>
> Try "apt-get -f install".  If that does not work, manually unpack the
> libstdc++6 package from squeeze.

I did that. Do I need to upgrade the dev package too?

>> Especially since I didn't warn my wife what I was doing?
>
> If everything else fails, you may have to consult a marriage
> counselor. ;-)

Nah...We have been married 24 years (and 1 week). I have learned to
hide with pride.

Thanks,
--b


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Re: USB3.0 problem: xhci_hcd not found

[Krzysztof Bieniasz]

> Something I was reading in your posts started me thinking that maybe in
> your hast you started adding more usb software thinking that you may
> accidentally solve the problem, so could the problem be too much
> software has been installed?

No, the only thing I've installed in connection with the usb issue was 
the linux-firmware-free package, which you recommended. It helped then, 
somewhat partly, but now I see that the port doesn't work again. During 
this session when I connect a flash memory to the port, dmesg gives the 
following:

[ 7974.584256] xhci_hcd :04:00.0: Timeout while waiting for a slot
[ 7974.584264] hub 2-0:1.0: couldn't allocate port 2 usb_device
[ 7974.584277] hub 2-0:1.0: cannot disable port 2 (err = -32)

I'm completely puzzled. The slot seams to work at random. The other 
annoying messages are still there though, throughout all the session.


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Re: Copying DVD

[Mark Neidorff]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 08:30 am, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> Hi there,
>
>   I am trying to copy a dvd (double layer). For some reason brasero
> thinks there is no dvd (using a cd-rom instead of a dvd is ok). Here
> is the output when the dvd is in:
>

I'm assuming that this is a video DVD.  Does it have encryption (DRM) enabled?  
If so, that may be your problem.

Mark


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:18:06AM EST, Camaleón wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:07:11 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:
> 
> (...)
> 
> > Do some of you people still use DVD's as an external medium for
> > backups..?

> I prefer to store data in hard disks, but DVD-RAM (DL) could be worth
> a try in the event I'd look for an "optical" backup solution.

Thanks, will check whether my drive supports them.

cj


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:27:57AM EST, Gilbert Sullivan wrote:
> On 02/02/2011 11:07 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

>> I burn my backups to regular single-layer DVD's once in a while. DVD+RW
>> is what I use, but now it looks like I'm flirting with their limit in
>> terms of capacity..

[..]

> My comments probably won't be very helpful to you. I seem to be at
> about  the same point as you, with respect to use of optical discs for
> backup  purposes. I use them only for the really important stuff that
> I want  backed up to a separate system, an external portable hard
> drive, AND to  optical disc.

One trick I use is copy my back-up file (encrypted) to my cell phone's
micro-SD.. In the event disaster struck, I would either be out of the
house with my cell phone, or grab a few belongings including said mobile
before I rushed outside. The problem with that is that it still has the
original vfat .. formatting, and whatever it is, it doesn't like 4G+
files either :-)

> I bought a cakebox of DVD+R(DL) discs thinking that I could just keep
> on  using xfburn. Unfortunately, xfburn isn't interested. I've only
> managed  to use brasero to burn a large (> 4.3 GB) tar.gz file to
> a dual layer  disc, and the results of hashing the file on the DL disc
> didn't match the hash of the original file. So, I've started splitting
> my archive files and burning them to single-layer discs.

I guess that addresses my original question in good part.. I already
have a large enough collection of coasters, thank you.

> I'd love to be able to use the dual layer discs. And I'd even consider
> buying and using a BluRay drive -- if that would offer a valid
> solution  for burning my data in one go. But I wonder if BR isn't
> multimedia-centric in the same way as dual layer DVD+R(DL).

Apart from the cost of the medium... I am very suspicious of all the
hidden stuff that infects anything Blu-Ray.. And you're probably right..
may turn out to be unsuitable for data archiving. 

> I don't ever do multi-session burning, though. I just do single
> track-at-once burns. I've run into too many issues in the past with
> borked ToC (though that was under Windows). I'm a simple guy. 

Same here.. That's one of the reason I'm not in too much of a rush to
revamp my current backup procedures.

> If it bit  me once without what I consider to be good cause, I don't
> "pet" it again.

:-)

cj


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Re: Upgrade stable -> testing -- with errors

[Sven Joachim]

On 2011-02-02 18:42 +0100, Brad Alexander wrote:

> I may have just shot myself in the foot, but I decided to go ahead and
> upgrade my wife's machine. It was running stable (lenny atm) and I
> wanted to get it to testing. Its running trinity as well.
>
> So I updated the apt-conf to
>
> APT::Default-Release "testing";
>
> (My base sources.list includes links for all three releases), updated
> the trinity list from the lenny one to the squeeze one (the ppa
> format), and I ran aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade.
>
> Things went well for about 30 minutes, then crashed. Now I am getting
>
> [root@galaxy archives]# dpkg --configure -a

This might not work, "apt-get -f install" would be a better try to fix
things up.

> Setting up menu (2.1.41) ...
> update-menus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
> symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4

Which version of libstdc++6 is installed on your system?

> dpkg: error processing menu (--configure):
>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
> Setting up python2.6 (2.6.6-8+b1) ...
> update-menus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
> symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4
> dpkg: error processing python2.6 (--configure):
>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libpython2.6:
>  libpython2.6 depends on python2.6 (= 2.6.6-8+b1); however:
>   Package python2.6 is not configured yet.
> dpkg: error processing libpython2.6 (--configure):
>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  menu
>  python2.6
>  libpython2.6
>
> and I can't get past the undefined symbol. Can anyone suggest what I
> need to get this done?

Try "apt-get -f install".  If that does not work, manually unpack the
libstdc++6 package from squeeze.

> Especially since I didn't warn my wife what I was doing?

If everything else fails, you may have to consult a marriage
counselor. ;-)

Sven


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Overwritten ALOM runtime image during Debian Net install - HELP :(

[RR]

Hi All,

We think we have ruined the image that comes with the SC or something but we
were trying to install Debian Linux on this V240. On the OBP we typed

*ok boot new linux root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=10.1.3.1:/mnt/iso ip=10.1.3.11:10
.1.3.1:10.1.3.254:255.255.255.0:SPARC01*

Where:
/mnt/iso is where we mounted the Debian ISO via lofiadm
10.1.3.11 is the IP we wanted to assign this machine
etc.

After it went through this, we got a lot of garbage on the screen. So we
recycled power (Cold reboot) the machine and now this happens:

*ALOM BOOTMON v1.5.1*
*ALOM Build Release: 001*
*Reset register: e000 EHRS ESRS LLRS*

*ALOM POST 1.0*

*Dual Port Memory Test, PASSED.*

*TTY External - Internal Loopback Test*
*TTY External - Internal Loopback Test, PASSED.*

*TTYC - Internal Loopback Test*
*TTYC - Internal Loopback Test, PASSED.*

*TTYD - Internal Loopback Test*
*TTYD - Internal Loopback Test, PASSED.*

*Memory Data Lines Test*
*Memory Data Lines Test, PASSED.*

*Memory Address Lines Test*
*Slide address bits to test open address lines*
*Test for shorted address lines*
*Memory Address Lines Test, PASSED.*

*Memory Parity Test*
*Memory Parity Test, PASSED.*

*Boot Sector FLASH CRC Test*
*Boot Sector FLASH CRC Test, PASSED.*


*Return to Boot Monitor for Handshake*
*ALOM POST 1.0*
*Status = 7fff*

*Returned from Boot Monitor and Handshake*


*Clearing Memory Cells*
*Memory Clean Complete*

*Loading the runtime image... ¡¼å!ØÖ*
*½ç*
*Gûb*
*î*
*¢*
*¼*

*röÂC¬*
*¥*
***

*Ǿ*
*¤D¦î*

*($*
*ؽ*
*C0*

*ÑbCÏÀ¤èÜäC8Á8*

Please help! We're actually not physically at the server and it's sitting
10,000 miles away. We have access to remote power boot and a serial access
into the machine however.

Thank you in advance

Re: [OT] Newbies and non-defaults

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 17:03:52 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
> Anyway, somebody starting a topic with "help" as subject certainly
> should read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ;)

His question was fine - what some of us took issue with was the one particular 
reply!!

Lisi


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Re: help

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 17:15:13 Camaleón wrote:
> I don't think the main point of this thread is about "newbie" definition.
> I've only pointed out that:

It was in origin - which is what I was sticking to.  So what we were failing 
to meet on was what the thread was about!

A self avowed newbie (and the assertion appeared credible!) had asked for 
help - he was the OP of this thread - and been given advice to use an 
application which a newbie wouldn't have (since it is not in the default 
install) to install a package that doesn't exist, since he had said that he 
uses Lenny, and it isn't in Lenny.

That is where I have been coming from throughout.  A newbie who was given 
what, for him, was totally inappropriate advice.

I have no difficulty at all in agreeing with you about the capabilities of 
Debian!!  Just that they are inappropriate for this particular OP.

So I hope we have reached agreement??  I am now clear that all we were 
disagreeing over was the OP and therefore the purpose of the thread. :-)

Pax??

Lisi


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Upgrade stable -> testing -- with errors

[Brad Alexander]

I may have just shot myself in the foot, but I decided to go ahead and
upgrade my wife's machine. It was running stable (lenny atm) and I
wanted to get it to testing. Its running trinity as well.

So I updated the apt-conf to

APT::Default-Release "testing";

(My base sources.list includes links for all three releases), updated
the trinity list from the lenny one to the squeeze one (the ppa
format), and I ran aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade.

Things went well for about 30 minutes, then crashed. Now I am getting

[root@galaxy archives]# dpkg --configure -a
Setting up menu (2.1.41) ...
update-menus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4
dpkg: error processing menu (--configure):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
Setting up python2.6 (2.6.6-8+b1) ...
update-menus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined
symbol: _ZNSt8messagesIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.4
dpkg: error processing python2.6 (--configure):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libpython2.6:
 libpython2.6 depends on python2.6 (= 2.6.6-8+b1); however:
  Package python2.6 is not configured yet.
dpkg: error processing libpython2.6 (--configure):
 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Errors were encountered while processing:
 menu
 python2.6
 libpython2.6

and I can't get past the undefined symbol. Can anyone suggest what I
need to get this done? Especially since I didn't warn my wife what I
was doing?

Thanks,
--b


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Re: [OT] Newbies and non-defaults

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:03:52 +0100, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:

> Op 02-02-11 15:42, Camaleón schreef:

(...)

>> So, if a user using KDE asks anything related to KDE, should we stop
>> replying just because is not using a default setting? No, of course.
>> The same goes with sudo.

> Of course not, and I think nobody said. 

Well, maybe not "directly" but I see no problem in telling someone to run 
"sudo" in Debian when is helping a user. If the said user does not 
understand what it means and "sudo" command outputs an error it will 
reply that "sudo  does not work here" or "I am getting X 
message".

(...)

> Anyway, somebody starting a topic with "help" as subject certainly
> should read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ;)

We all have "dumb" days and when English is not our main language it 
happens more often than we would like :-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Admin password (cn=admin,dc=config) for OpenLDAP in Debian Squeeze

[Razvan Deaconescu]

On 02/02/2011 05:24 PM, Rob Owens wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 05:05:56PM +0200, Razvan Deaconescu wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I've browsed the configuration page for slapd[1] and it mentions that,
>> for starting from version 2.3, "The LDAP configuration engine allows all
>> of slapd's configuration options to be changed on the fly, generally
>> without requiring a server restart for the changes to take effect."
>>
>> I'm using slapd 2.4.23-7 on a Debian Squeeze (testing). Trying to
>> configure TLS support I've found this page[2] mentions using the
>> cn=admin,dc=config account and a password for it. What is the user and
>> password required to update the LDAP configuration database in a
>> Debian-based configuration?
>>
> Do you have a file called /etc/libnss-ldap.secret or /etc/pam_ldap.secret?
> Sometimes the password is stored there.

Both the /etc/libnss-ldap.conf and the /etc/pam_ldap.conf files mention
that the *.secret files are to be used as password files for the LDAP
account to be used by root:
---
# grep -C 3 secret /etc/pam_ldap.conf

# The credentials to bind with.
# Optional: default is no credential.
#bindpw secret

# The distinguished name to bind to the server with
# if the effective user ID is root. Password is
# stored in /etc/pam_ldap.secret (mode 600)
rootbinddn cn=manager,dc=example,dc=net

# The port.
---

I think this is only used for the client side and is not a server
configuration.

Razvan


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[Solution] panning using xrandr

[T o n g]

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 14:31:55 +, T o n g wrote:

> Now the question that I really want,
> 
> How can I reduce the size of my display to a smaller size, while keep
> the virtual size of my display to my current size, using panning to view
> all virtual display.

whole tread is documented at
http://sfxpt.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/panning-using-xrandr/

excerpt:

I had always been wondering, how can I reduce the size of my display to a
smaller size, while keep the virtual size of my display to my current 
size, using a command.

"Wait, why would you need that?" You may ask. Well, that's a secret trick
that I've been playing for years -- 

 [ . . . ]

Quick answer:

To reduce to a smaller display size,

 xrandr --output VGA-1 --mode 640x480 --panning 1920x1080

This will reduce the size of my display to a smaller size (640x480), while
keep the virtual size of my display to my current size.  To view the other
virtual display area, just panning with the mouse.

To get a list of display size can be used, use 'xrandr'. Here is output of
mine:

 $ xrandr 
 Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 4096 x 4096
 VGA-1 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
477mm x 268mm panning 1920x1080+0+0
1920x1080  60.0*+
1280x1024  75.0 60.0  
1440x900   59.9  
1280x800   59.8  
1152x864   75.0  
1024x768   70.1 60.0  
800x60060.3 56.2  
640x48066.7 60.0  
720x40070.1  

It shows that the smaller sizes that I can use are, 1280x1024, 1440x900, 
1280x800, , 800x600, 720x400 and 640x480.

BTW, There is also an old X11 trick to change the screen resolution,
Ctrl-Alt plus + or - from the number pad.  That's the trick that I've been
playing for years. However, as you can tell, it'd be tiresome to do it 
now, because previously there's about 3 modes that I can switch in 
between, and now it is tiresome to cycle through all the display mode 
above.

To restore,

 xrandr -s 1920x1080

For details, read on. 

http://sfxpt.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/panning-using-xrandr/

-- 
Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply)
  http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/
  http://xpt.sourceforge.net/tools/


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[martin f krafft]

also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.1748 +0100]:
> No, that's the whole point.  It locks up.  It doesn't just launch the
> BusyBox shell, awaiting a command.  It doesn't respond to the keyboard.

So you likely do not have the required USB modules for the keyboard
in the initramfs. I suggest that you recreate the initramfs after
changing MODULES="most" in /etc/initramfs/mkinitramfs.conf

> I thought I made that clear when I said, "...hangs completely."
> If that weren't the case, I could have investigated further
> myself. Without a responding system, though, and no way to save
> logs, I'm stuck.

Fair enough, although I doubt that it actually hangs. It just
doesn't know how to deal with your keyboard.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"without music, life would be a mistake."
 - friedrich nietzsche


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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 17:01:32 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:42:30 Camaleón wrote:
>> I don't think so, it's just I have another POV.
> 
> Yes, quite.  But the thing on which you have a different pov is what a
> newbie is.  Which is semantic not technical.

I don't think the main point of this thread is about "newbie" definition. 
I've only pointed out that:

- An expert install is not exclusively meant for "experts" nor for 
"massive installations" but for people who wants to customize his/her 
install.

- In Debian we are lucky enough to have both options available and easily 
selectable ("root" logins and/or "sudo") and that saying "hey, run this 
command: sudo this" is not a symptom of using Ubuntu.

No more, no less :-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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RE: Squeeze Beta 2 upgrade

[Mike Viau]

> On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:36:05 +  wrote:
> 
> Hopefully a simple question to answer. I installed Squeeze beta 2
> AMD64 a few weeks ago and have accepted all updates. If I continue to
> take the updates will it morph into the release version when that is
> released or is it advisable to reinstall the final release?
> 
> 

The software packages will update (if necessary) to be the same ones as on the 
release medium packages. So a re-install is not necessary.

Then the official Debian apt repositories will become more up-to-date until the 
next point release.


-M
  

Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

martin f krafft wrote:

> also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.1044 +0100]:
>> How could I assemble the arrays manually when the system
>> won't boot?
> 
> At the busybox command line.
> 
> The command output you provided is from the 2.6.32-3-amd64 kernel.
> I need you to provide me with this output after trying to boot the
> 2.6.32-5-amd64 kernel. Since it fails to assemble the arrays, it
> will not be able to mount the root filesystem. Hence it will drop
> you into a shell. The message
> 
>   /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
> 
> just says that there is no real tty. But busybox should still start
> and let you type commands.

No, that's the whole point.  It locks up.  It doesn't just launch the
BusyBox shell, awaiting a command.  It doesn't respond to the keyboard.
I thought I made that clear when I said, "...hangs completely."  If
that weren't the case, I could have investigated further myself. 
Without a responding system, though, and no way to save logs, I'm
stuck.


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Re: [OT] Newbies and non-defaults

[Sjoerd Hardeman]

Op 02-02-11 15:42, Camaleón schreef:
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:27:34 +, Lisi wrote:
> 
>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:15:13 Camaleón wrote:
>>> should be
>>> avoid replying here all KDE-related topics? ;-)
>>
>> Yes, if a newbie is talking about GNOME,  we should ceratinly avoid
>> muddying the water by bringing KDE into the discussion.
> 
> - KDE is not the default
> - sudo is not the default
> - KDE is like sudo (in this scope)
> 
> So, if a user using KDE asks anything related to KDE, should we stop 
> replying just because is not using a default setting? No, of course. The 
> same goes with sudo.
Of course not, and I think nobody said. Yet, it is fair to assume that a
newbie is using gnome. On the other hand, newbies google too and might
have heard about sudo, KDE, postfix, mysql, lighthttpd and any other
non-debian-default application that I currently cannot think of.

Anyway, somebody starting a topic with "help" as subject certainly
should read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ;)

Just my 2 cents
Sjoerd



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Re: help

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:42:30 Camaleón wrote:
> I don't think so, it's just I have another POV.

Yes, quite.  But the thing on which you have a different pov is what a newbie 
is.  Which is semantic not technical.

Lisi


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Squeeze Beta 2 upgrade

[Russell Gadd]

Hopefully a simple question to answer. I installed Squeeze beta 2
AMD64 a few weeks ago and have accepted all updates. If I continue to
take the updates will it morph into the release version when that is
released or is it advisable to reinstall the final release?


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New version of midori with more problems?

[Javier Vasquez]

Hi,

I've keeping track of midori in unstable, to see the  moment when it
can actually substitute one of the more bloated browsers...

After upgrade yesterday, the right button of the mouse seems to do
nothing.  And in mipsel boxes, it seems not possible to get into gmail
with lots of time spent and not getting into...

Has anyone noticed any misbehavior from midori on latest unstable version?

0.3.0-1.1 (according to aptitude)

Thanks,

-- 
Javier.


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Gilbert Sullivan]

On 02/02/2011 11:07 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

I burn my backups to regular single-layer DVD's once in a while. DVD+RW
is what I use, but now it looks like I'm flirting with their limit in
terms of capacity..

In the long run, this probably means that I need to review my backup
policies, maybe separating /home from the rest of the system, but this
has made me curious as to what dual-layer DVD burners/media may offer.

I didn't find much in terms of easy-to-digest documentation, and I'm
under the impression that dual-layer DVD's are WORM-only.. IOW multiple
writes are not supported (?).

Sounds like they're meant for audio/video stuff rather than really
useful as a backup medium, no?

Do some of you people still use DVD's as an external medium for
backups..?

Has anyone run into this problem and come up with a solution that's
practical, simple, and elegant?

Thanks for your comments,

cj



My comments probably won't be very helpful to you. I seem to be at about 
the same point as you, with respect to use of optical discs for backup 
purposes. I use them only for the really important stuff that I want 
backed up to a separate system, an external portable hard drive, AND to 
optical disc.


I bought a cakebox of DVD+R(DL) discs thinking that I could just keep on 
using xfburn. Unfortunately, xfburn isn't interested. I've only managed 
to use brasero to burn a large (> 4.3 GB) tar.gz file to a dual layer 
disc, and the results of hashing the file on the DL disc didn't match 
the hash of the original file. So, I've started splitting my archive 
files and burning them to single-layer discs.


I'd love to be able to use the dual layer discs. And I'd even consider 
buying and using a BluRay drive -- if that would offer a valid solution 
for burning my data in one go. But I wonder if BR isn't 
multimedia-centric in the same way as dual layer DVD+R(DL).


I don't ever do multi-session burning, though. I just do single 
track-at-once burns. I've run into too many issues in the past with 
borked ToC (though that was under Windows). I'm a simple guy. If it bit 
me once without what I consider to be good cause, I don't "pet" it again.


;-)

Regards,
Gilbert


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Re: Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:07:11 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:

(...)

> Do some of you people still use DVD's as an external medium for
> backups..?

I prefer to store data in hard disks, but DVD-RAM (DL) could be worth a 
try in the event I'd look for an "optical" backup solution.

Greetings,

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Re: Can't reboot after power failure (RAID problem?)

[David Gaudine]

On 11-01-31 8:47 PM, Andrew Reid wrote:


   The easy way out is to boot from a rescue disk, fix the mdadm.conf
file, rebuild the initramfs, and reboot.

   The Real Sysadmin way is to start the array by hand from inside
the initramfs.  You want "mdadm -A /dev/md0" (or possibly
"mdadm -A -u") to start it, and once it's up, ctrl-d out
of the initramfs and hope.  The part I don't remember is whether or
not this creates the symlinks in /dev/disk that your root-fs-finder
is looking for.


All's well.  After the "Real Sysadmin" way got me into the system 
one-time-only, I could do the "easy way" which is more permanent without 
needing a rescue disk.  Thank you so much.


I have one more question, just out of curiousity so bottom priority.  
Why does this work?  mdadm.conf is in the initramfs which is in /boot 
which is on /dev/md0, but /dev/md0 doesn't exist until the arrays are 
assembled, which requires mdadm.conf.


David


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Backup media - double-layer DVD

[Chris Jones]

I burn my backups to regular single-layer DVD's once in a while. DVD+RW
is what I use, but now it looks like I'm flirting with their limit in
terms of capacity.. 

In the long run, this probably means that I need to review my backup
policies, maybe separating /home from the rest of the system, but this
has made me curious as to what dual-layer DVD burners/media may offer.

I didn't find much in terms of easy-to-digest documentation, and I'm
under the impression that dual-layer DVD's are WORM-only.. IOW multiple
writes are not supported (?).  

Sounds like they're meant for audio/video stuff rather than really
useful as a backup medium, no?

Do some of you people still use DVD's as an external medium for
backups..? 

Has anyone run into this problem and come up with a solution that's
practical, simple, and elegant?

Thanks for your comments,

cj



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Re: which DVD to download?

[Camaleón]

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 14:16:24 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

(...)

> I only recommend the netinst to users that are likely to have Internet
> while d-i is running.  That's most users now since many types of
> connections are supported from within d-i.  But, the OP specifically
> mentioned that they would likely not have Internet during the d-i run.

Agree. With no Internet connection I would go for the first CD or better 
yet, the first DVD.

Last time I used "netinst" image fitted in a mini-CD (~210 MiB) which  
allowed me to install a bare system but not a full desktop metapackage, 
IIRC.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: alternatives for gcc

[Joe Riel]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 09:18:00 +0100
Sven Joachim  wrote:

> On 2011-02-02 03:01 +0100, Andrew Reid wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday 01 February 2011 20:11:31 Joe Riel wrote:
> >> Why are there no alternatives, configurable with
> >> update-alternatives, for gcc? Seems like I should be able to
> >> configure whether /usr/bin/gcc is linked to gcc-4.3, gcc-4.4,
> >> etc.   Of course I can just set the link manually (which I do),
> >> but ...
> 
> See /usr/share/doc/gcc/README.Debian why gcc is not managed via
> alternatives.

Thanks for pointing me here.  
 
-- 
Joe Riel


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Re: Admin password (cn=admin,dc=config) for OpenLDAP in Debian Squeeze

[Rob Owens]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 05:05:56PM +0200, Razvan Deaconescu wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I've browsed the configuration page for slapd[1] and it mentions that,
> for starting from version 2.3, "The LDAP configuration engine allows all
> of slapd's configuration options to be changed on the fly, generally
> without requiring a server restart for the changes to take effect."
> 
> I'm using slapd 2.4.23-7 on a Debian Squeeze (testing). Trying to
> configure TLS support I've found this page[2] mentions using the
> cn=admin,dc=config account and a password for it. What is the user and
> password required to update the LDAP configuration database in a
> Debian-based configuration?
> 
Do you have a file called /etc/libnss-ldap.secret or /etc/pam_ldap.secret?
Sometimes the password is stored there.

-Rob


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Re: can't umount automounted drives

[briand]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 05:45:47 +
Dom  wrote:

> On 02/02/11 04:28, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've got udev and automount working very nicely, EXCEPT,
> > regular users can't umount the mounted device.
> >
> > the strangest thing is that I'm sure I had it working at some point
> > such that regular users COULD umount.
> >
> > The fstab has the user keyword in it.
> >
> > Strangely passing user in the automount mount options doesn't seem
> > to help.
> >
> > Any ideas ?
> >
> 
> Have you tried putting "users" instead of "user" in the fstab or 
> automount options?
> 
> This means any user can unmount the filesystem, not just the one who 
> mounted it.

you are, of course, correct.

Nothing like having egg on your face archived in the mailing list for
all time :-(

Just to be maximally confusing there is a user AND users keyword.

user   Allow an ordinary user to mount the filesystem.  The name of the
  mounting  user  is  written  to  mtab so that he can
  unmount the filesystem again.   This  option  implies
  the  options  noexec, nosuid,  and  nodev (unless
  overridden by subsequent options, as in the option line
  user,exec,dev,suid).


users  Allow  every  user  to  mount  and unmount the filesystem.  This
  option implies the options noexec,  nosuid,  and  nodev
(unless overridden   by  subsequent  options,  as  in  the  option  line
  users,exec,dev,suid).

I think I see the difference.  The problem is that when automount
mounts the file I'm not the user who did it, so the user option doesn't
work.  users however allows me to umount a filesystem I did NOT mount.

Thank you,

Brian


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Re: can't umount automounted drives

[briand]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 05:45:47 +
Dom  wrote:

> On 02/02/11 04:28, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've got udev and automount working very nicely, EXCEPT,
> > regular users can't umount the mounted device.
> >
> > the strangest thing is that I'm sure I had it working at some point
> > such that regular users COULD umount.
> >
> > The fstab has the user keyword in it.
> >
> > Strangely passing user in the automount mount options doesn't seem
> > to help.
> >
> > Any ideas ?
> >
> 
> Have you tried putting "users" instead of "user" in the fstab or 
> automount options?
> 
> This means any user can unmount the filesystem, not just the one who 
> mounted it.
> 

The keyword really is "user", according to the fstab(5) man page.
Additionally I know the user keyword works in fstab, i.e. this allows
a user to mount/umount. It seems to be broken when associated with
autofs.

I'm just sure this was working before...

Brian


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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:27:34 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:15:13 Camaleón wrote:
>> should be
>> avoid replying here all KDE-related topics? ;-)
> 
> Yes, if a newbie is talking about GNOME,  we should ceratinly avoid
> muddying the water by bringing KDE into the discussion.

- KDE is not the default
- sudo is not the default
- KDE is like sudo (in this scope)

So, if a user using KDE asks anything related to KDE, should we stop 
replying just because is not using a default setting? No, of course. The 
same goes with sudo.

I hope all is clear now :-)

> PS As I have said to Chris, I think that your problem understanding what
> we are saying may be semantic.

I don't think so, it's just I have another POV.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:20:40 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 12:49:30 Camaleón wrote:
>> I don't get it, Lisi.
>>
>> In Debian you can easily go for one or another path.
> 
> Yes, but _not_ a newbie.  The default does  not give you sudo.  A newbie
> would be using the default.

A newbie should use whatever the default is. Period.

> An Ubuntu user who has migrated to Debian is by definition not a newbie.

Ubuntu thinks "sudo" is for newbies, Debian doesn't. And in this case I 
agree with Debian's policy :-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: opera copy/paste

[Camaleón]

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 06:55:07 -0500, Paul Cartwright wrote:

> I have a problem with Chrome not working right. I click on a link & it
> does nothing( something about  a plugin missing). So I started up Opera
> 11.01 build 1190. when I get to the page I want, I tried to COPY the URL
> & PASTE into an email. Didn't paste. nada,zip, empty. Tried it a few
> times, nothing. Tried to copy the URL from the Opera bar to Chrome,
> nothing. Started up gedit, copied the URL in opera, pasted to gedit,
> THERE IT IS! copied that ( yes, a fresh CTRL-C ) and did a CTRL-V into
> email and there it is.. So why/how can opera copy/paste be this weird? I
> tried CTRL-C/V and also tried the menus ( right-click-copy)

(...)

It only happens within Opera? Try to launch it with another user that has 
a clean .opera profile ("gksu opera" will open Opera as "root") and check 
if the copy/paste weird behaviour remains.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: help

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:15:13 Camaleón wrote:
> should be
> avoid replying here all KDE-related topics? ;-)

Yes, if a newbie is talking about GNOME,  we should ceratinly avoid muddying 
the water by bringing KDE into the discussion.

Lisi

PS As I have said to Chris, I think that your problem understanding what we 
are saying may be semantic.


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Re: help

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:08:35 Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:59:28AM +, Camaleón wrote:
> > Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is
> > intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite:
> > "sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it means
> > and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed in their
> > systems and don't care much on security considerations.
> >
> > In brief: if you know what "sudo" is for, you should not have any problem
> > to configure it ;-)
>
> If you know what is for then you'd know to put sudo before any command
> that you should execute as root.
>
> But Ubuntu configures it automatically AIUI and there is the occassional
> Ubuntu user asking questions on *this* list where the advice "sudo
> " will work but may not be the correct advice for an Ubuntu
> system.
>
> But for a new Debian user (either an ex Windows or ex Ubuntu user), the
> advice "sudo " won't work[1] and just may confuse the poor
> bugger.
>
> There used to be a time when commands to be executed as a normal user
> would be preceeded by a '$' and commands to be executed as root would be
> preceeded by a '#'. This is a safer method and makes all the problems I can
> forsee non existant[2]
>
>
> [1] Unless they choose expert install from the Squeeze installer. But
> then it is their choice to use sudo, and not us assuming they have
> it configured.
>
> [2] - An Ubuntu user won't complain that their system is now buggered
>   because of the "help" they got from this list.
>
> - A new user will learn the difference between being root and just a
>   normal user.
>
> --
> "Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
>-- Napoleon Bonaparte

Chris - I am beginning to think that Chamaleón's problem understanding what we 
are on about, may be semantic.

Lisi


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Re: help

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 12:49:30 Camaleón wrote:
> I don't get it, Lisi.
>
> In Debian you can easily go for one or another path.

Yes, but _not_ a newbie.  The default does  not give you sudo.  A newbie would 
be using the default.

An Ubuntu user who has migrated to Debian is by definition not a newbie.

Lisi


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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 03:08:35 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:59:28AM +, Camaleón wrote:

>> Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is
>> intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite:
>> "sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it
>> means and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed
>> in their systems and don't care much on security considerations.
>> 
>> In brief: if you know what "sudo" is for, you should not have any
>> problem to configure it ;-)
> 
> If you know what is for then you'd know to put sudo before any command
> that you should execute as root.

That sounds pretty obvious.
 
> But Ubuntu configures it automatically AIUI and there is the occassional
> Ubuntu user asking questions on *this* list where the advice "sudo
> " will work but may not be the correct advice for an Ubuntu
> system.

That shouldn't be a problem at all. In such case we only have to instruct 
the user about the right command, not very complicated.

> But for a new Debian user (either an ex Windows or ex Ubuntu user), the
> advice "sudo " won't work[1] and just may confuse the poor
> bugger.

Confussion is not bad, it provides "an extra" of experience. A little of 
patience and all can be done flawlessly, I still don't see any problem 
with that. Every distribution has its own defaults but the same base 
remains. "Sudo" works on Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE... . It's not a default setting in Debian, 
right, but it is an option. KDE is not a "default" neither but should be 
avoid replying here all KDE-related topics? ;-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[martin f krafft]

also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.02.1044 +0100]:
> How could I assemble the arrays manually when the system won't boot?

At the busybox command line.

The command output you provided is from the 2.6.32-3-amd64 kernel.
I need you to provide me with this output after trying to boot the
2.6.32-5-amd64 kernel. Since it fails to assemble the arrays, it
will not be able to mount the root filesystem. Hence it will drop
you into a shell. The message

  /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off

just says that there is no real tty. But busybox should still start
and let you type commands. At this stage you can gather all the
information, store them to media (see "Saving debug information" on
http://wiki.debian.org/InitramfsDebug), and then either assemble the
arrays by hand and let the boot continue, or reboot and publish the
gathered data from 2.6.32-3-amd64.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"the wonderful thing about standards is
 that there are so many to choose from."
   -- grace hopper


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Copying DVD

[Mathieu Malaterre]

Hi there,

  I am trying to copy a dvd (double layer). For some reason brasero
thinks there is no dvd (using a cd-rom instead of a dvd is ok). Here
is the output when the dvd is in:

$ /usr/bin/dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/scd0
INQUIRY:[HL-DT-ST][DVD-RAM GH10L   ][FC09]
GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION:
 Mounted Media: 10h, DVD-ROM
 Speed Descriptor#0:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@5.1x1385=7057KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#1:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@5.1x1385=7056KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#2:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@4.1x1385=5646KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#3:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@4.1x1385=5645KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#4:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@3.1x1385=4235KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#5:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@3.1x1385=4234KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#6:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@2.0x1385=2822KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#7:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@1.0x1385=1411KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#8:02/404849 R@2.1x1385=2919KB/s W@0.5x1385=706KB/s
READ DVD STRUCTURE[#0h]:
 Media Book Type:   00h, DVD-ROM book [revision 0]
 Legacy lead-out at:2231744*2KB=4570611712
DVD-ROM media detected, exiting...

Absolutely nothing appears in dmesg | tail. Now if I manually try to mount it:

$ sudo mount /media/cdrom0
mount: block device /dev/sr0 is write-protected, mounting read-only
mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sr0,
   missing codepage or helper program, or other error
   In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
   dmesg | tail  or so
$ dmesg | tail
...
[1305505.778306] UDF-fs: No anchor found
[1305505.778312] UDF-fs: No partition found (1)
[1305505.867998] ISOFS: Unable to identify CD-ROM format.

With:

$ cat /etc/fstab
...
/dev/scd0   /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0   0


Any help very much appreciated !

-- 
Mathieu

$ apt-cache policy dvd+rw-tools brasero
brasero:
  Installed: 2.30.3-2
  Candidate: 2.30.3-2
  Version table:
 *** 2.30.3-2 0
200 http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ squeeze/main amd64 Packages
100 http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
dvd+rw-tools:
  Installed: 7.1-6
  Candidate: 7.1-6
  Version table:
 7.1-9 0
100 http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
 *** 7.1-6 0
200 http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ squeeze/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 11:59:28AM +, Camaleón wrote:
> Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is 
> intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite: 
> "sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it means 
> and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed in their 
> systems and don't care much on security considerations.
> 
> In brief: if you know what "sudo" is for, you should not have any problem 
> to configure it ;-)

If you know what is for then you'd know to put sudo before any command
that you should execute as root.

But Ubuntu configures it automatically AIUI and there is the occassional
Ubuntu user asking questions on *this* list where the advice "sudo
" will work but may not be the correct advice for an Ubuntu
system.

But for a new Debian user (either an ex Windows or ex Ubuntu user), the
advice "sudo " won't work[1] and just may confuse the poor
bugger.

There used to be a time when commands to be executed as a normal user
would be preceeded by a '$' and commands to be executed as root would be
preceeded by a '#'. This is a safer method and makes all the problems I can
forsee non existant[2]


[1] Unless they choose expert install from the Squeeze installer. But
then it is their choice to use sudo, and not us assuming they have
it configured.

[2] - An Ubuntu user won't complain that their system is now buggered
  because of the "help" they got from this list.

- A new user will learn the difference between being root and just a
  normal user.

-- 
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 12:30:49 +, Lisi wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 11:59:28 Camaleón wrote:
>> Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is
>> intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite:
>> "sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it
>> means and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed
>> in their systems and don't care mu
> 
> I read this completely the other way round, as meaning that anyone
> expert enough to install and configure sudo in Debian, wouldn't be
> asking simple questions.  Newbies in Debian wouldn't be using sudo at
> all, so mentioning it to them is not helpful.

I don't get it, Lisi.

In Debian you can easily go for one or another path.

Should you want to use sudo, you can select it with the expert install or 
you can configure after the installation (if standard root login was 
selected).
 
> Ubuntu newbies, of course, would be using sudo, but should not be on
> this list.

He, he... so you think? :-)

> Ergo, any newbie asking questions on this list has not got sudo.  (The
> conclusion I too had come to right at the beginning of this thread.)

I think any Ubuntu user that now is using Debian would of course ask 
where is "sudo" and probably want to have it setup also in Debian, which 
is an easy task.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: help

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 02 February 2011 11:59:28 Camaleón wrote:
> Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is
> intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite:
> "sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it means
> and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed in their
> systems and don't care mu

I read this completely the other way round, as meaning that anyone expert 
enough to install and configure sudo in Debian, wouldn't be asking simple 
questions.  Newbies in Debian wouldn't be using sudo at all, so mentioning it 
to them is not helpful.

Ubuntu newbies, of course, would be using sudo, but should not be on this 
list.

Ergo, any newbie asking questions on this list has not got sudo.  (The 
conclusion I too had come to right at the beginning of this thread.)

Lisi


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Re: OT: Make Windows act like Debian and copy text just by marking it

[Daniel Andersson]

On 02/01/2011 03:30 AM, Kelly Clowers wrote:

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 03:01, Daniel Andersson
  wrote:

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a program that allows me to make Windows to act like as
Debian and copy text just by marking it?

It would lessen the annoyance of switching to Windows :)


I feel your pain. The two ways I have found are AutoHotKey scripts,
which is a really hacky method, and True X-Mouse[1].

TXMouse is better in some ways, but there are still disadvantages:
1) middle click will not work for some things, like opening links in a
new tab in FF/SM
2) TXMouse brings in classic X Windows focus behaviour -
Focus follows mouse, and optional autoraise

Some people like that focus style. Personally, I hate it unless
I am using a tiling WM, which isn't avalible on Windows

Also, in Win7 the systray popup is disconnected from the taskbar,
so it is a real pain to use it with focus follows mouse.


[1] http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/nt/TXMouse/

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers




Nice! Hope I will get some time to try this out.

Thanks

/Daniel


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Re: alternatives for gcc

[deloptes]

Joe Riel wrote:

>  update-alternatives --install as part of their postinstall routine.

is not that bad idea




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Re: help

[Camaleón]

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 01:18:04 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:28:28PM +, Camaleón wrote:

>> > Oh!  ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
>> > doing, which seems a bit backwards.
>> 
>> Since when "knowing what you are doing" is considered as "backwards"?
>> :-)
> 
> I mean it "seems a bit backwards" in the sense that an expert probably
> wouldn't be asking questions where the answer is a simple "sudo
> ", whereas someone who is not an "expert" wouldn't have sudo
> configured cause they wouldn't choose "expert install" and therefore
> giving them the answer "sudo " wouldn't be usefull.

Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is 
intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite: 
"sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it means 
and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed in their 
systems and don't care much on security considerations.

In brief: if you know what "sudo" is for, you should not have any problem 
to configure it ;-)
   
>> > Maybe it is meant for installing to many machines - i.e. a lab or
>> > classroom?
>> 
>> No, expert install is a "must" for me for every installalation I have
>> to
> ^
> Which seems to mean you do a few?

Yep, well, quite a few... on servers, workstations and desktop computers 
but that is less that <100 machines. I make a complete full system 
install every 2 years.
 
>> do. BTW, it's not just "for experts", but for users who want a
>> customized installation, I'd say.
> 
> Mmmm, true, I think there are options where you can fine tune the
> partitioning etc. But calling it "expert install" may put newbies off
> choosing it.

Sure... "expert" is not bad wording (it indicates you need some 
background on computers to deal with that kind of installation procedure) 
but it could be improved if the user knew beforehand what steps will he/
she encounter when choosing that option.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Display or graphics problems

[陈飞]

Just install success, reboots display shows "input does not support"

Designates mode can enter, single user mode startx after, display shows "input 
does not support", Windows can be activated.

Installation is AMD64 5.07, showing the hd4250 -, display yi beauty GuanJie) 
ENV1923 Michelson (LCD1923 (19.1 inches)

thanks

Re: OT: Make Windows act like Debian and copy text just by markingit

[Chris Bannister]

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 10:17:37AM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Lu, 31 ian 11, 18:46:36, Dr. Ed Morbius wrote:
> > 
> > Otherwise, the question is OT for this list.
> 
> It is already marked as such ;)

Just like you can park anywhere in your car if you turn the hazard
lights on. :)

-- 
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:00:41PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Lu, 31 ian 11, 17:00:38, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> 
> > > If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable 
> > > root logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze 
> > > installer.
> > 
> > Oh!  ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> > doing, which seems a bit backwards.
> 
> "offered the choice" does not mean it is the default though ;)

No, right. I haven't seen the Squeeze installer in action yet. I soon
will though and will give it more of a "critical" look when I do.

I was mainly concerned that giving advice to Ubuntu users on a Debian
list, may "bugger" up their system.

-- 
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   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:28:28PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:00:38 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
> >> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
> > 
> > Oh!  ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> > doing, which seems a bit backwards.
> 
> Since when "knowing what you are doing" is considered as "backwards"? :-)

I mean it "seems a bit backwards" in the sense that an expert probably
wouldn't be asking questions where the answer is a simple "sudo
", whereas someone who is not an "expert" wouldn't have sudo
configured cause they wouldn't choose "expert install" and therefore
giving them the answer "sudo " wouldn't be usefull.
  
> > Maybe it is meant for installing to many machines - i.e. a lab or
> > classroom?
> 
> No, expert install is a "must" for me for every installalation I have to
^
Which seems to mean you do a few?

> do. BTW, it's not just "for experts", but for users who want a customized 
> installation, I'd say.

Mmmm, true, I think there are options where you can fine tune the
partitioning etc. But calling it "expert install" may put newbies off
choosing it.

-- 
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: help

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:37:05AM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In <20110131040038.GA3315@fischer>, Chris Bannister wrote:
> >On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
> >> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
> >
> >Oh!  ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> >doing, which seems a bit backwards.
> 
> I maintain that experts will be more likely to use sudo than su.  It 
> provides better granularity and helps avoid password sharing.  A password 
> shared is a password compromised.

Right. But being the expert you probably won't be asking questions where
the answer is something like "sudo "

But as is more likely someone asking for advice where the answer is
"sudo " are either not experts, and hence it wouldn't have been
configured when they installed squeeze, and therefore the answer "sudo
" won't work, or, they are running Ubuntu where it would work
BUT as we all know (all together now) "Ubuntu is NOT Debian."

Am I misunderstanding something?

-- 
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   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: Upgrade to 2.6.32-5-amd64 failing miserably

[lrhorer]

martin f krafft wrote:

> also sprach lrhorer  [2011.02.01.2123 +0100]:
>> far too quickly to be seen, but then an error pops up concerning
>> an address space collision of some PCI device. Then it shows three
>> errors for RAID devices md1. md2, and md3, saying they are already
>> in use.
> 
> This looks like a hardware problem, causing mdadm to fail to
> assemble.

I guess I did not make myself clear.  The systems boots perfectly, and
continues to do so, under 2.6.32-3-amd64. Since the arrays assemble and
run without error under 2.6.32-3-amd64, then there is no way enough
members of the array could be bad to prevent them from assembling under
2.6.32.3-5-amd64. Not only that, but GRUB would not even come up,
since /boot is /dev/md1, and all three arrays are assembled from the
same two dirves.  'Bottom line, md1, md2, and md3 are just fine.

>> Immediately thereafter the system shows errors concerning  the RAID
>> targets being already in use, after which point the system complains
>> it can't mount / (md2), /dev, /sys, or /proc (in that order) because
>> the sources do not exist (if /dev/md2 does not exist, how can it be
>> busy?). Thereafter, of course, it fails to find init, since / is not
>> mounted. It then tries to run BusyBox, but Busybox complains:
>> 
>> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
> 
> This is normal. Don't worry about that.
> 
> Instead, try to assemble the arrays manually. And provide me with
> a lot more information, e.g.

How could I assemble the arrays manually when the system won't boot? 
They don't need to be assembled manually under 2.6.32-3-amd64, because
they assemble and boot perfectly well automatically in that release.

>   ls -l /dev/md* /dev/[sh]d*
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,   0 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hda
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,   1 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hda1
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,   2 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hda2
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,   3 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hda3
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,  64 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hdb
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,  65 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hdb1
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,  66 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hdb2
brw-rw 1 root disk 3,  67 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/hdb3
brw-rw 1 root disk 9,   0 Feb  2 03:22 /dev/md0
brw-rw 1 root disk 9,   1 Feb  2 03:22 /dev/md1
brw-rw 1 root disk 9,   2 Feb  2 03:22 /dev/md2
brw-rw 1 root disk 9,   3 Feb  2 03:22 /dev/md3
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,   0 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sda
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,  16 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdb
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,  32 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdc
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,  48 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdd
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,  64 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sde
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,  80 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdf
brw-rw 1 root disk 8,  96 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdg
brw-rw 1 root disk 8, 112 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdh
brw-rw 1 root disk 8, 128 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdi
brw-rw 1 root disk 8, 144 Feb  2 03:23 /dev/sdj

I don't see the point of this, at all.  There is nothing to guarantee
the drive targets will be the same in the new kernel, or for that
matter from one boot to the next in the old kernel.

>   cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4]
md0 : inactive sdj[9](S)
  1465137560 blocks super 1.2

md3 : active (auto-read-only) raid1 hda3[0] hdb3[1]
  204796548 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
  bitmap: 0/196 pages [0KB], 512KB chunk

md2 : active raid1 hda2[2] hdb2[1]
  277442414 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
  bitmap: 5/265 pages [20KB], 512KB chunk

md1 : active raid1 hda1[0] hdb1[1]
  6144704 blocks [2/2] [UU]
  bitmap: 0/1 pages [0KB], 65536KB chunk

>   mdadm -Es
ARRAY /dev/md1 UUID=4cde286c:0687556a:4d9996dd:dd23e701
ARRAY /dev/md/2 metadata=1.2 UUID=d45ff663:9e53774c:6fcf9968:21692025
name=Backup:2
ARRAY /dev/md/3 metadata=1.2 UUID=51d22c47:10f58974:0b27ef04:5609d357
name=Backup:3
ARRAY /dev/md/0 metadata=1.2 UUID=431244d6:45d9635a:e88b3de5:92f30255
name=Backup:0

The arrays are fine.  This is not an issue with any of the arrays
themselves.

>   dmesg

See next message.

> It would really help if you could also enable initramfs debugging
> (http://wiki.debian.org/InitramfsDebug) and provide us with the
> output file.

Well, this may be getting a bit closer, but still no cigar.  Setting
the "break=premount" kernel parameter causes the kernel to halt booting
and load the BusyBox executable, but since there is still no access to
the tty, the system is once again locked at that point.  I need
something which will allow the me to inspect things - or at least
obtain an output that can be saved - during the boot process.


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Installing Etoile on Debian SID - experiences?

[Csanyi Pal]

Hi,

I want to install Etoile on my Debian SID system.
About Etoile:
http://etoileos.com/

I try to install it but have no success.

Are there on this mailing list anybody who has successfully installed
Etoile on his Debian SID system?

-- 
Best Regards,
Paul Chany
http://csanyi-pal.info


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Re: Debian SID - Source Package: etoile (0+20080616+dfsg-2)

[Csanyi Pal]

Johan Grönqvist  writes:

> 2011-02-01 21:40, Sven Joachim skrev:
>> On 2011-02-01 22:26 +0100, Csanyi Pal wrote:
>>
>>> and after I run 'sudo aptitude update' I still can't find etoile with
>>> 'aptitude search etoile'. Why?
>>
>> Because aptitude only deals with binary packages, and the etoile source
>> package builds a binary package named "dictionaryreader.app".
>
> On  (note the qa in the
> url, there is a link to this page from the etoile package page you
> included in your original post), you can see the list of binary
> packages built form this source package.

Well, I was hope that this way I can install Etoile environment,
based on the GNUstep, but unfortunately this is not the case. :(

-- 
Best Regards,
Paul Chany
http://csanyi-pal.info


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