Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop.

[Joel Rees]

2015/09/01 1:27 "Jonathan de Boyne Pollard" <
j.deboynepollard-newsgro...@ntlworld.com>:
>
> Christian Seiler:
>>
>> Note that _nobody_ working on su, neither upstream nor maintaining it in
distributions, has claimed that they will stop.
>
>
> Indeed.  The implication that su is being replaced has, rather, come from
the technology journalists and web log diarists writing headlines ...
>
> * Paul Carroty's piece referenced from this thread: "... 'su' command
replacement ..."
> * Sam Varghese in ITWire: "Systemd's latest conquest: the 'su' command"
and "It remains to be seen which other functions systemd will seek to take
over. " in the body
> * Softpedia: "systemd 225 Adds 'su' Replacement" with "'machinectl shell'
is the new 'su' replacement in systemd" as the subtitle
> * Lukáš Jelínek in LinuxExpress: "Funkcionalita příkazu 'su' začleněna do
systemd"
> * Petr Krčmář in root.cz: "Do systemd je integrována náhrada za 'su'"
> * Michael Larabel in Phoronix: " The machinectl shell command is meant to
replace su for running privileged sessions. " in the opening
>
> ... and in part from the systemd version 225 release notes:
>
>> Hence, 'machinectl shell' can be used as [a] replacement for 'su' which
spawns the session as a fresh systemd unit.
>
>
> Interestingly, neither the 7-year-old Freedesktop.org pkexec (su, but
using Freedesktop.org's own PolicyKit) nor FreeBSD's "/etc/rc.d/jail
console myjail1" have made such headlines.  (-:
>

I think it was Poettering's criticism of su that makes this more
interesting to the press. Or maybe it's a slow news week.

Whether they took the criticism out of context or not is another question.

--
Joel Rees

Re: Suspend-sedation Problem

[Eirik Schwenke]

Hi,

I see there's been some recent changes to the 
https://wiki.debian.org/SystemdSuspendSedation article.

First a change to move from a (my) dumb string check against "/usr/sbin/rtcwake 
--mode show" output to avoid issues with l10n (while there doesn't appear to be 
translations for Norwegian, I gather some locales output "alarm: off" as a 
localized string, not English).

The change moved to first setting WAKEALARM to point to 
/sys/class/rtc/rtc0/wakealarm with help of systemd "Environment=" and then 
setting WAKEALARM either an empty string, or teading a number into WAKEALARM, 
via command substitution -- and finally checking for the WAKEALARM to be zero 
'[ -z "$(cat $WAKEALARM)"]. Essentially a complicated way to check if 
/sys/class/rtc/rtc0/wakealarm is an empty (pseudo)file.

(This isn't meant as criticism against the change - the whole thing is more 
complicated than it should be and the new version shouldn't be prone to l10n 
bugs).

Then there was a different change, to do numerical comparison against date 
+%%s. I think the new code contains two errors: a) it should be:

NOW="$(date +%s)";

At least my date complains that % isn't a valid number if "+%%s" is used. 
Probably a simple typo.

In the case that no wake-alarm is set; WAKEALARM will be the empty string and 
dash (and bash) will complain that an integer expression is expected. As far as 
I can tell adding a test for the empty string (-z) and chaining with logical-or 
(-o) will *not* work:

a=""
if [ -z "${a}" -o 10 -ge "${a}" ]
then
  echo "Never reached."
else
  echo "Then apparently is smaller than null"
fi

So, with the current script there appear to be a couple of issues with both the 
code and the logic. Now on my end, the original script mostly♤ works; and the 
comment on the last change of the wiki says the current version works for 
"KillYourTV". As the wiki isn't a good VCS I'd rather not change the 
script(again) without a little more feedback.

Is anyone using the current version? Is it working? Did the original version 
work? That's:

https://wiki.debian.org/SystemdSuspendSedation?action=recall&rev=6

How about rev=11 ? For the record as of now the lates is 13.

I'm not on the list, please add me to cc of any replies.

I'm hoping we can find something that's both clean and correct - and actually 
works for everyone... :-)

Best regards,

Eirik Schwenke

♤ On occasion my thinkpad T420s refuse to suspend on lid close. I usually just 
open up the lid and manually go directly to hibernate-disk from the command 
line. No idea why this sometimes happens.


-- 
Via phone - please excuse quoting and spelling

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[Joel Rees]

2015/09/02 1:04 "Ric Moore" :
>
> On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...] have zero sympathy or respect
>> in practice for" those things.
>
>
> How would that be different from "he does seem to prefer underage girls"?
:0 Ric

Are you really trying to induce or project a sexual orientation slur into
the conversation?

ergo, that someone can use to trumpet about how his enemies lie and gossip
about him?

Or are you saying that if every evil is not equivalent to every other there
must be no evil?

Or did you have something else in mind?

--
Joel Rees

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Gary Roach]

On 09/01/2015 04:22 PM, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:

I keep forgetting about WINE -- likely because I never have used WINE.

>From the WINE HQ web site, it appears that WINE may be a reasonable
solution, and even a way to circumvent the  problems of running the intel
code on an amd machine.

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2292

RLH



Having tried wine in the past, I do not recommend it. I had fits with 
it. Some things work. Some don't. I use VirtualBox and load in a whole 
separate operating system. If you don't have the disks that could be a 
problem. If you have the installation disks for another OS, VirtualBox 
is the way to go.


BTW Google Earth should operate on an AMD chip set if you enable 
milti-arch as Sven said. That would seem to be the easier cleaner way to go.

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[rlharris]

I keep forgetting about WINE -- likely because I never have used WINE.

>From the WINE HQ web site, it appears that WINE may be a reasonable
solution, and even a way to circumvent the  problems of running the intel
code on an amd machine.

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2292

RLH

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Ric Moore]

On 09/01/2015 03:53 PM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 03:47:53PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Tuesday 01 September 2015 14:09:39 rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:


On Tue, September 1, 2015 9:47 am, Darac Marjal wrote:

In that case, consider "marble", which provides a similar "virtual
globe" and is LGPL 2.1+ licensed.


[...]


For example, looking at London, I see nothing but pixels in shades of
green and tan.

RLH


Gaggh, you are right, I just installed it. Minimum viewing altitude is
50km!  Nothing but smeared green large pixels where London is marked. Of
what use is this in the real world?  [...]


Well, freely available data versus expensively paid for by Google (and paid
back to them with your and my privacy :-)

Perhaps we should team up and buy some better satellite data to "free" it?
Kickstarter anyone?


I'm building "Grit". I'll let everyone know how well it works. You do 
need an nVidia graphic card though. Ric




--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: Getting a serial console to work on Jessie

[Stephen Powell]

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:13:56 -0400 (EDT), David Parker wrote:
> 
> I have a bunch of Debian Wheezy servers set up with the console available
> via the serial port.  Generally, I just add this line to /etc/inittab:
> ...
> That's all fine and good, but when I try to do this on my desktop PC
> running Jessie, it doesn't work.
> ...

I realize that you already have a resolution to your problem, but if you're
using serial consoles on Debian Linux, you might find some useful information 
here:

   http://users.wowway.com/~zlinuxman/serial.htm

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-

Dell brightness issue

[Clive Akem]

I have the same issue that when changing brightness, everything runs slowly 
even after restarting. Have you managed to solve it? Thanks

Clive

qdbus commands in 64-bit jessie?

[D. R. Evans]

In wheezy, the following command worked correctly:



qdbus org.kde.yakuake /yakuake/sessions runCommandInTerminal $SESSION_ID "tmux"



Following my upgrade to jessie, the same command produces:



qdbus: could not exec '/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/qt4/bin/qdbus': No such file or
directory



The reference to i386 is a bit puzzling, since this is a 64-bit system.
Anyway, I discovered that all attempts to execute qdbus commands from the
command line produce the same error :-(

What do I need to do to get my qdbus commands working again?

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR



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Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[T. J. Duchene]

Sorry had an issue that caused a premature post before I could
finish it.  

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 23:11:51 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:


> 
> There is a difference between what I asked and what you're telling me.
> 
> Simply tweaking and recompiling debian or redhat is not what I'm
> asking about, although it can be tedious enough. Nor is building a
> functioning gentoo really.
> 
> I'm asking if you have built an OS from scratch, including the
> userland tools and apps, for a specific, non-trivial purpose.

That depends.  If you consider using LFS to be the only answer you will 
accept, then "No", since as I said, I have never used it.  If you 
consider that I have taken existing code, compiled, rearranged, or
added to it to save time, then the answer might be "Yes." 

It really depends on if you accept that I have rebuilt most of Linux
over multiple occasions, but never all at once. 

I suspect that anyone who has done so is a tiny minority on this list.
I do not think that it is fair to judge what a person is saying based
on that.

 


> 
> Should I believe you when you say that? 

Whether or not you believe anything I say is entirely up to you.
Personally, I would like to think that you would at least consider it,
but ultimately what we discuss here has very little to do with the
"price of tea in China."


> I know it seems to be picky  of me, but I've often found that this
> particular expression is used more in the ironic mood. 

You don't know me, and that's fine. If you did, when I say I am
offering you respect, you'd know that I mean exactly that.  I might not
always agree with you, but we can have a civilized discussion. 

> 
> Perhaps it is to you. But if I needed only adaptation, the Macintosh
> is a much more comfortable environment to do the adaptation thing in.

If open source means something different to you that is certainly your
prerogative and I have nothing to say about it.  For myself, the whole
point of open code is to improve it and find new uses.


> 
> I have other needs. Unfortunately, there is no current OS/community
> that can provide me those needs. The nice, though uncomfortable, thing
> about the systemd business is that it brought my attention to that
> fact.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. =(

I find the systemd issue to be less important because at any point
anyone who can reasonably compile code can assemble something that they
can use - with or without systemd.  For me personally, the important
thing is FOSS: free open source software, not Linux specifically.

Generally speaking, I do not give a damn what certain factions within
Linux does, because if I am motivated, I can and will always be able to
ignore them.  I can take the code and use it as I see fit.   

You could respond that that is impossible for the non-programmer.
Truthfully, I do not think that is entirely the case anymore.  Using
the right setup anyone can compile or assemble a working Linux with a
modicum of personal skill.  I say this because after I showed a few
people how to use configure and make, they were able to take over from
there as long as they were using a stable codebase.  That is not to say
that there can't be issues, but with tools, anyone can follow
directions.



> 
> Please don't put words in my mouth.

Fair enough.  That was never my intent, and if you are offended, I
apologize.  One of the problems with the written word is that it is not
always possible to arrive at the same meaning, and we have different
cultures, which sometimes lead to misunderstandings in non-technical
conversation.

>
> 
> Now, you see, you and I have a very different perspective on things
> here. I don't want to even put Doug into the position of having to
> wonder whether he should learn how to build his own OS from scratch.
> At least, not now, when it would not be very meaningful to do so.

I think that we are less far apart then you do, but in the end it does
not really make much difference to others. 

I would ask "Why is someone using Debian or a Linux in the first
place?" If the answer is only because I do not want Windows, then I
believe that Debian is the wrong place for them. 

Once, I felt as you do, but I realized Debian has at its heart a DIY
philosophy concerned primarily with FOSS.  It has too many rough edges
and usability issues to be a user operating system. That is why Linux
never really succeeded in the consumer world until Android came
along.   



> 
> > I also prefer that in discussions of this nature, that people
> > maintain some logical distance - separating the person from the
> > code.
> 
> No self-respecting engineer will claim that the code he produces can
> be separated from the context he operates in, including his
> personality.
> 
> Sorry if I'm being too blunt with that.

That's fine.  You're welcome to think what you like.  

For myself, code is just code.  It either works or it does not.  It is
literally a mathematical expression that has absolutely nothing to do
with a person's e

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 03:47:53PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 01 September 2015 14:09:39 rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, September 1, 2015 9:47 am, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > In that case, consider "marble", which provides a similar "virtual
> > > globe" and is LGPL 2.1+ licensed.

[...]

> > For example, looking at London, I see nothing but pixels in shades of
> > green and tan.
> >
> > RLH
> 
> Gaggh, you are right, I just installed it. Minimum viewing altitude is 
> 50km!  Nothing but smeared green large pixels where London is marked. Of 
> what use is this in the real world?  [...]

Well, freely available data versus expensively paid for by Google (and paid
back to them with your and my privacy :-)

Perhaps we should team up and buy some better satellite data to "free" it?
Kickstarter anyone?

- -- t
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19AAn0g8PO30X1HkMUKBUM8Jgfu+2+Af
=vzpv
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Re: Getting a serial console to work on Jessie

[Sven Hartge]

Michael Biebl  wrote:

> As for overriding the system provided service files, I usually recommend
> to use drop-ins, i.e. creating a
> /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/my_custom_config.conf
> This way you only need to override what you are actually interested in.

Users of Testing/Stretch or Unstable/Sid can use systemctl directly:

# systemctl edit foo.service

and this will create the override directory in the right place and open
a new file in your preferred editor. Very handy.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 01 September 2015 14:09:39 rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:

> On Tue, September 1, 2015 9:47 am, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > In that case, consider "marble", which provides a similar "virtual
> > globe" and is LGPL 2.1+ licensed.
>
> I did install marble.  Perhaps my installation is not correctly
> configured, but after seeing the detailed photograph of "Tour Eiffel"
> on the google.com website which advertises google earth, I am
> disappointed in marble.
>
> For example, looking at London, I see nothing but pixels in shades of
> green and tan.
>
> RLH

Gaggh, you are right, I just installed it. Minimum viewing altitude is 
50km!  Nothing but smeared green large pixels where London is marked. Of 
what use is this in the real world?  Even less useful than the 
appendages on the belly of a bore hog.  And its no better above where I 
am either.  No wonder its buried about 5 levels out in my TDE menu's, 
its a total disappointment.

I have no clue where the map data is coming from, but IMO its a nukable 
utility.  With the weather map data I can zoom into my neighborhood and 
find my house & yard buildings with no effort at all.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[David Wright]

Quoting The Wanderer (wande...@fastmail.fm):
> On 2015-08-31 at 13:25, David Wright wrote:

> > Here's a 
> > comparison of my (admittedly rather noisy) VC login on two systems:
> > 
> > west!david 12:22:14 ~ $ diff -U0 VC-login-*[ey]
> > --- VC-login-jessie 2015-08-31 11:34:23.476573261 -0500
> > +++ VC-login-wheezy 2015-08-31 11:38:11.0 -0500
> 
> How did you get these files?

I've put the method in a new thread with a better title. You can just
see the cat commands in the diff output in my previous posting.

I'll leave others who are more expert to help fix those log lines on
the console. My logging kind of works, but there's something odd about
my /var/log/journal/ files which I suspect is to do with upgrading
this laptop from squeeze through wheezy and sid/testing (when stable
was wheezy) to jessie. So I haven't bothered to look at how logging
works. Another item that will probably fix itself with a clean install.

> ii  systemd-shim  9-1  amd64shim for systemd

I don't have any experience with that.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Getting a serial console to work on Jessie

[Michael Biebl]

Am 01.09.2015 um 19:31 schrieb David Parker:
> Thanks, Michael!  That was indeed the problem.  I
> copied /lib/systemd/system/serial-getty@.service to /etc/systemd/system,
> edited it to use the correct baud rate and terminal type, and then ran
> "systsystemctl start serial-getty@ttyS0.service" and it worked like a charm.

Glad we could solve your problem this easily.

As for overriding the system provided service files, I usually recommend
to use drop-ins, i.e. creating a
/etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/my_custom_config.conf
This way you only need to override what you are actually interested in.

You can use drop-ins for template files itself or for instances itself:

/etc/systemd/system/serial-getty@.service.d/my_stuff.conf
-> will apply to all instances of serial-getty@

/etc/systemd/system/serial-getty@ttyS0.service.d/my_stuff.conf
-> only applies to serial-getty@ttyS0.service.d

> Guess I need to get with the times and learn systemd!

Welcome!

Michael

-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Tue, 2015-09-01 at 13:09 -0500, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> On Tue, September 1, 2015 9:47 am, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > In that case, consider "marble", which provides a similar "virtual
> > globe" and is LGPL 2.1+ licensed.
> 
> I did install marble.  Perhaps my installation is not correctly
> configured, but after seeing the detailed photograph of "Tour Eiffel" 
> on
> the google.com website which advertises google earth, I am 
> disappointed in
> marble.
> 
> For example, looking at London, I see nothing but pixels in shades of
> green and tan.

Have you tried using Google Maps, and street view?

BTW, you should be able to use GE on amd64 if you enable multi-arch. 

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5




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Re: kde 5 display problem

[Siard]

Hans wrote:
> At the moment the greatest problem is, that kwin-x11 and its
> dependencies are deinstalled at upgrade, as well as plasma-desktop.

My observation is that this has been solved by now.  In stretch, I could
re-install kwin-x11 and its dependency, kwin-common, and plasma-desktop,
without the unresolvable dependency problems that showed up previously.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[T.J. Duchene]

On 09/01/2015 09:11 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
I'm asking if you have built an OS from scratch, including the 
userland tools and apps, for a specific, non-trivial purpose. 


That depends.  If you consider using LFS to be the only answer you will 
accept, then "No", since as I said, I have never used it.  If you 
consider that I have taken existing code, compiled, rearranged, or added 
to it to save time, then the answer might be "Yes." depending on if you 
accept the answer provisionally


codebase, then I do not see why we are even having

it is very likely that no one on this list as done anything of the 
sort.  If you are setting the bar to ignore anything I might comment on, 
then I suspect I will fall short of your expectations no matter what I 
have done.




I'm not asking for your CV/resume.

  That is
not including other things Unix: like Solaris. No, I have not always had
documentation and sometimes had to figure it would myself.

Documentation is not really the issue.


Is there a more specific answer you wanted?

You have already given me your answer.


(1a) If you have, have you ever implemented your own init system for a
Linux-based OS that you built yourself?

No, I never had a reason to.

Clearly.


As with many things, necessity breeds invention.  I have had no reason to
invent my own when I can modify an existing one to do what I want.

And there we have, in a nutshell, why it's a little disingenuous of
you to raise the "You can always build your own!" argument.

You haven't done this one.


With
respect,

Should I believe you when you say that? (I know it seems to be picky
of me, but I've often found that this particular expression is used
more in the ironic mood. So I ask. Not that it's fair of me to ask,
because I know it's not a question that can be answered meaningfully.
But please don't ask me to assume that assertion means anything,
either.)


I doubt most programmers would bother creating an entirely new init
unless they had a pressing need or just wanted something new.  The whole
point of open source is adaptation.

Perhaps it is to you. But if I needed only adaptation, the Macintosh
is a much more comfortable environment to do the adaptation thing in.

I have other needs. Unfortunately, there is no current OS/community
that can provide me those needs. The nice, though uncomfortable, thing
about the systemd business is that it brought my attention to that
fact.


There are quite a few inits to chose from.  The fact that Systemd was
created in addition to the dozen or so previously existed probably had more
to do with cgroups than anything else if you ask me.

Well, I never said I cared much for cgroups, either. Quite the opposite, really.

cgroups is, in fact, part of the stuff I specifically do not need in my OS.


(2) Having done that much, have you ever kept that system maintained
and updated, even at just the level of keeping only the critical
applications patched or updated against vulnerabilities on a timely
basis?

Yes, I have.

Well, ...


  I used to manage servers for ISPs.  Yes, I'd even patched them
by hand because the OEM no longer provided updates.

Hey, we've all managed servers and/or workstations here, I think. Or
we are learning how. That's not the question I'm asking.

And, since you haven't built the OS from scratch, ...

No. I beg to disagree with you, but I don't think you have maintained
an OS you've built from scratch. Sorry.

Your CV looks promising, but that's not what I'm asking you about.


Okay, there's actually one more question here:

(3) Have you ever done the first two while holding down a full-time,
40+ hour a week job that doesn't particularly make allowances for
employees that need to spend the time necessary for maintaining their
OS?

Well, I can honestly say "No."  As I said, I have never bothered to write a
new init from scratch.

There it is.


What you are really asking

Please don't put words in my mouth.


is when I was working other jobs as we all have,
and maintain my own systems as best I could on my own time.  Sure.  We all
do the best we can.  None of us are perfect and I have never claimed to be
either.

Perfection is hard to achieve, as el viejo used to say. It's also not
really what I'm asking about.


If you have, how long did you keep it up without developing
personality issues for lack of sleep, developing dysfunctional
digestion problems like ulcers and diabetes, and/or ending up breaking
up your family?

Well, to be perfectly honest, I do have some of those problems. Some are bad
enough to where I am probably on medication for the rest of my life.

Sorry to hear that. There are doctors who want to get me on
medications for life, too. Fortunately, I know just enough medicine to
avoid needing what they sell.

I don't think they are particularly evil, but what they want me to
take would kill me. Not immediately, just by gradually making it
impossible for me to keep any sort of job at all. Maybe my
non-standard health has somethi

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[rlharris]

On Tue, September 1, 2015 9:47 am, Darac Marjal wrote:
> In that case, consider "marble", which provides a similar "virtual
> globe" and is LGPL 2.1+ licensed.

I did install marble.  Perhaps my installation is not correctly
configured, but after seeing the detailed photograph of "Tour Eiffel" on
the google.com website which advertises google earth, I am disappointed in
marble.

For example, looking at London, I see nothing but pixels in shades of
green and tan.

RLH

Re: Getting a serial console to work on Jessie

[Michael Biebl]

Am 01.09.2015 um 18:13 schrieb David Parker:
> And still not in the same way that they appear on Wheezy ("/sbin/getty
> 38400 tty1", etc.).  If I add the line for the serial console to
> /etc/inittab and reload the init deamon, or even reboot the PC, it simply
> does nothing.  No getty process shows up on ttyS0, and no serial console is
> available.
> 
> I know the serial port itself works, because I can connect to it from my
> laptop, then do "screen /dev/ttyS0 9600" on the PC and see characters in
> the screen session as I type them on the laptop.  So the serial port works,
> and I/O seems to work, but I can't seem to start a persistent getty process
> on that port and access the console through it.

Reading your description, I assume you have systemd-sysv installed and
systemd is your active PID 1. systemd no longer reads /etc/inittab, so
any configuration changes there don't have any effect.

getty's are started on demand by systemd-logind [1] and then show up as
instances of getty@.service, e.g. getty@tty1.service.
If you wanted to see your currently running instances you could use
something like "systemctl list-units | grep getty@"

For getty's on a serial console, there is a serial-getty@.service unit,
which is also started on demand.

If for some reason you want to enable those units statically, i.e.
always start them during boot, then this is no problem either.
Run
systemctl enable getty@tty2.service
systemctl enable getty@tty3.service
..
systemctl enable serial-getty@ttyS0.service
etc.

Regards,
Michael




[1] see man logind.conf -> NAutoVTs



-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: logrotate permissions problem

[Reco]

 Hi.

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 08:27:39 -0600
"D. R. Evans"  wrote:

> D. R. Evans wrote on 08/31/2015 01:09 PM:
> 
> >> The solution of this problem should be as simple as:
> >>
> >> chgrp adm /var/log/polipo/pol*
> >> rm -f /var/log/polipo/polipo.log.1.gz
> > 
> > OK; I have done that, and will let you know tomorrow whether the problem has
> > gone away.
> > 
> 
> Yep; no notification from the system last night, so the solution looks like
> it's worked.
> 
> Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Reco

HOWTO reread boot and login messages

[David Wright]

Loading, please wait...
fsck from util-linux 2.25.2
john01: clean, 336746/977280 files, 2768454/3905795 blocks

Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux 8 (jessie)!

[  OK  ] Reached target Remote File Systems (Pre).

[ ... lots of lines ... ]

[  OK  ] Started LSB: set CPUFreq kernel parameters.

Debian GNU/Linux jessie/sid west tty1 Wed Aug 5  2015  10:22:04

west login: david
Password:
Last login: Wed Aug  5 09:23:20 CDT 2015 on tty1
Linux west 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u2 
(2015-07-17) i686

> How did you get these files? I haven't been able to come up with a way
> to get a dump of the exact text that is on a console, short of manually
> typing it into an editor (probably on another computer, for
> convenience's sake). Parts of it are logged, but not as far as I can
> tell into a single file [...]

I posted this method about 15 years ago, but things have changed a
little. It's easy but tedious, and there are more preconditions.

To get boot messages at all, you probably need to modify
/etc/default/grub thus:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet systemd.show_status=true 
fbcon=scrollback:128K"

It was once enough to have   1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty --noclear 38400 tty1
in /etc/inittab but now you need a file
/etc/systemd/system/getty@tty1.service.d/noclear.conf containing

[Service]
TTYVTDisallocate=no

You mustn't change VC before you've done capturing the messages,
so booting straight into X is out.

The scrollback buffer will be cleared (though not the screenful being
displayed at the time) if the font gets changed, so
/etc/default/console-setup should have
FONTFACE=""
FONTSIZE=""
if they're there at all.

You need a mouse and gpm installed for cut-and-paste on the console.

Your login startup shouldn't make any of these changes either.

Finally, you need to start performing the steps below within X minutes
of booting up, ie before the kernel blanks the screen, which zaps the
scrollback buffer.

Boot up.
Log in.
Type:
$ cat > a-new-file
Hold down Shift-PageUp (assuming it autorepeats) to get as far back up
the screen as you can.
Drag the mouse with (usually) the left button pressed across the
entire text to highlight it.
Press the paste (right, usually) button. The text is inserted into
the file. Usually the cursor sits at the end of the last line; if so,
press Return to complete the line ready for the next batch.
Hold down Shift-PageUp to get back up the screen and then press
Shift-PageDown twice. This should place you exactly one screenful
below where you were the first time (ie two half-screenfuls).
Drag the entire screen and paste again.
Repeat ad nauseam, but pressing Shift-PageDown 4 times, then 6 times etc.
until you find yourself highlighting back where you started, ie your
login and cat command.
Paste, press Return and then ^D.

Now you can peruse a-new-file at leisure or archive it.

Cheers,
David.

Getting a serial console to work on Jessie

[David Parker]

Hello,

I have a bunch of Debian Wheezy servers set up with the console available
via the serial port.  Generally, I just add this line to /etc/inittab:

co:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyS0 9600 vt102

And then run "kill -HUP 1" and the serial console works (I could also use
"telinit q" or "init q" instead of kill -HUP").  I just did this on a
Wheezy server to make sure, and checked the getty processes prior to making
the change:

# ps -ef | grep getty
root  2660 1  0 Jul24 tty1 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1
root  2661 1  0 Jul24 tty2 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2
root  2662 1  0 Jul24 tty3 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3
root  2663 1  0 Jul24 tty4 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4
root  2664 1  0 Jul24 tty5 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty5
root  2665 1  0 Jul24 tty6 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6

And then after:

# ps -ef | grep getty
root  2660 1  0 Jul24 tty1 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1
root  2661 1  0 Jul24 tty2 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2
root  2662 1  0 Jul24 tty3 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3
root  2663 1  0 Jul24 tty4 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4
root  2664 1  0 Jul24 tty5 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty5
root  2665 1  0 Jul24 tty6 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6
root 31705 1  0 11:33 ttyS000:00:00 /sbin/getty -L ttyS0 9600
vt102

And there's the getty on ttyS0 as expected.

That's all fine and good, but when I try to do this on my desktop PC
running Jessie, it doesn't work.  My PC is running an X server, Gnome,
etc., whereas the servers are not.  Also, on Wheezy, /sbin/getty and
/sbin/agetty seem to be two copies of the same file, wheras on Jessie,
/sbin/getty is a symlink to /sbin/agetty.

The PC is using the default /etc/inittab file.  When I check the list of
getty processes after a clean reboot, there's only this:

# ps -ef | grep getty
root  2092 1  0 11:50 tty1 00:00:00 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty1
linux

If I access the virtual consoles via CTRL-ALT-F1, etc., they show up in the
process list only after they have been accessed:

# ps -ef | grep getty
root  2092 1  0 11:50 tty1 00:00:00 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty1
linux
root  2998 1  0 11:56 tty2 00:00:00 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty2
linux
root  3001 1  0 11:56 tty3 00:00:00 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty3
linux

And still not in the same way that they appear on Wheezy ("/sbin/getty
38400 tty1", etc.).  If I add the line for the serial console to
/etc/inittab and reload the init deamon, or even reboot the PC, it simply
does nothing.  No getty process shows up on ttyS0, and no serial console is
available.

I know the serial port itself works, because I can connect to it from my
laptop, then do "screen /dev/ttyS0 9600" on the PC and see characters in
the screen session as I type them on the laptop.  So the serial port works,
and I/O seems to work, but I can't seem to start a persistent getty process
on that port and access the console through it.

Any ideas or suggestions are very much appreciated.

Thanks!
Dave

-- 
Dave Parker
Systems Administrator
Utica College
Integrated Information Technology Services
(315) 792-3229
Registered Linux User #408177

Re: /var/lib/apt/lists/partial fills entire partition

[Elimar Riesebieter]

* Tony van der Hoff  [2015-09-01 17:47 +0200]:

[...] 
[...]
> Running apt-get update manually showed an error:
> Err http://ftp.uk.debian.org jessie-backports/non-free amd64 Packages
> and the directory started filling.

deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian jessie-backports non-free

works flawlesly here.

Elimar
-- 
 Never make anything simple and efficient when a way
  can be found to make it complex and wonderful ;-)

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[Ric Moore]

On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote:


One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...] have zero sympathy or respect
in practice for" those things.


How would that be different from "he does seem to prefer underage 
girls"? :0 Ric


--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: How to read mail addressed to "root" from "root" user?

[Jayson Willson]

Thank you, now I see. I will forward root's mail to user, because 
security is important.

Yours sincerely, Jayson Willson

01.09.2015 13:43, Wouter Verhelst пишет:

(this isn't about Debian development anymore. I've added a Cc to
debian-user; if you have any follow-up questions, please drop the -devel
Cc).

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:44:04PM +0300, Jayson Willson wrote:

Thank you very much for your answer!
Could you please tell me, why is it recommended to forward root's mail to
regular user? I sometimes log in as root on tty or via sudo to administer
system, and thus I would be able to have root's and user's mailboxes
separated, while still reading root's mail.


Just have your system deliver it in a separate mailbox, then.

If you have the "allow_filter" option in your userforward router
enabled, you can do that by creating a file ~/.forward with the
following content:

# Exim filter <== do not remove this, exim checks it
if $h_to: contains "root"
then
   save /path/to/Maildir/rootmails/
   finish
endif

with the default exim config, this will cause it to be delivered in a
maildir with the given path name.

You can then read it with

mutt -f /path/to/Maildir/rootmails

as the normal user, rather than as root.

(or you could set up an IMAP server, yada yada)


Is there anything that I have missed?


The security implications of using a MUA as root.

If there is an exploitable bug in your MUA, you may end up with a
compromised system.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[Ric Moore]

On 08/31/2015 08:43 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:33:40AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:

On 2015-08-31 at 03:47, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:



Slinging mud at people never helps: Lennart Poettering isn't out
there "to get us" -- he's writing free software. He deserves to be
treated respectfully just for that.


While I understand what you're getting at here, and I believe I agree
with the underlying point, I do not agree with this actual statement.

Some people develop and distribute malware as free software. Do they
deserve to be treated with respect for doing that?


So let me correct my instance: I definitely don't assume malice on the
part of Lennart and other systemd people. Just a design taste which is
totally different from mine.


Yeah, I hated modules when they first came out. It was a commie plot. :) Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: /var/lib/apt/lists/partial fills entire partition

[Tony van der Hoff]

On 01/09/15 16:43, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 9/1/15, Elimar Riesebieter  wrote:
>> * Tony van der Hoff  [2015-09-01 14:17 +0200]:
>>
>>> On this jessie box I have started to see /var/lib/apt/lists/partial
>>> gradually filling the entire 2.7 GiB /var partition with hundreds of
>>> smallish files. Google show some results for a similar, but not
>>> identical problem for Ubuntu but I can't find anything matching this.
>>>
>>> This problem has developed over the last few days.
>>>
>>> A partial directory listing is attached (to circumvent wrapping).
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest a remedy to this problem, please?
>>
>> Try
>>
>> # apt-get clean
>>
>> From apt-get(8):
>>
>> clean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. It
>> removes everything but the lock file from /var/cache/apt/archives/ and
>> /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/.
>>
>> So after an apt-get update /var/lib/apt/lists/partial should be
>> recharged at least to zero size.
> 
> 
> 
> Let us know if it starts filling back up again. I'd already started an
> answer and had to run outside and... put the trash can on the curb.
> Part of that answer was to say that location is where at least apt
> (via apt-get update) temporarily stores "partial" files as its
> downloading updates from our *_CHOICE_* of repositories. If partial
> continues magically self-propagating and not emptying, obviously
> something needs dissected/triggered/toggled off if it's not you
> manually, consciously performing related [functions] that would result
> in that activity.
> 
> If you use something other than apt (apt-get) to update your software,
> do they offer the option to update automatically? Maybe that's toggled
> on?
> 
> I'm just... looking at your output there and comparing it to mine.
> Your partial for this one, e.g.:
> 
> 4584913 Sep  1 13:58
> ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2
> 
> You're talking about a zip file that got hung up there for some
> reason. Maybe it's not completely downloaded so then you have to track
> down why...
> 
> Or maybe the system's not finishing the transaction after a successful
> download for some reason?
> 
> In my case, I've actually sat here and watched it run live. Those
> partials *APPEAR* to become what's in the next step up, the parent
> directory, /var/lib/apt/lists.
> 
> So the question is potentially two-fold. Why is there SO MUCH of that
> activity if user is NOT manually/knowingly generating it and/or
> why is the process not completing successfully if it's a legitimately
> approved auto-update?
> 
> Speaking firsthand, one way it MIGHT happen is if someone is on
> something like dialup or alternately if they only access the Internet
> sporadically (i.e. disconnect unexpectedly throughout the day). Those
> update related downloads would get interrupted, and that MIGHT be one
> cause for what's showing in OP's partial directory.
> 
> My take on this is coming from firsthand experience rather than
> knowing how Debian technically works. I've seen something like OP's
> directory happen on my system but can't remember the exact
> circumstances now. In my case of being on dialup, the appearance has
> occasionally been that a repository's server has cut updates off
> because the server's tired of struggling under the 967 BYTES download
> rate on my end..
> 
> Cindy :)
> 
> PS Ok, I just checked my inbox one more time before sending this.
> Elimar and David replied with David's thought being similar to my own.
> Compression was a word I was actually looking for. Like something's
> not completing there that should be so that those files are
> decompressed and then magically manipulated together to become what's
> housed in the /var/lib/apt/lists parent directory... :)
> 

Thanks to all three for very helpful replies.

Unfortunately Elimar's suggestion only partially helped; it did not
clear /var/lib/apt/lists/partial, although running apt-get update did
clear it.  It then soon started filling up again.

It would appear that apt-get update is being run automatically; I'm
happy for it to do so, provided it works properly.

Running apt-get update manually showed an error:
Err http://ftp.uk.debian.org jessie-backports/non-free amd64 Packages
and the directory started filling.

I've now commented out the lines in sources.list referring to
jesie-backports, and running apt-get update doesn't seem to fill that
directory. I'll have to monitor that one!

My conclusion, if the mod fixes it, is that (a) that repository is
broken in some way, and (b) apt contains a bug allowing it to misbehave
under error conditions.

I shall only be at the end of a wet piece of string for my internet
connection for the next week, so may not be able to progress this as
much as I would like for a while.

Thanks again, Tony



-- 
Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |

Re: kde 5 display problem

[Hans]

Am Dienstag, 1. September 2015, 17:52:27 schrieb Nick Zarkadas:
> Hi all.
> After upgrade to kde5 my desktop doesn't display icons anymore
> All icons became black (see the attachments for details or click
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gyr3bzuu4mhyfyr/snapshot1_desktop_kde_5_with_dolph
> in.png?dl=0 and
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1azehqpu2evry5j/snapshot1_desktop_kde_5.png?dl=0 )
> 
> I use the debian testing release , my video driver is nouveau and my
> graphics card
> is an old nvidia FX5200.
> Does anyone has an idea why this happed?
> Thanks !
Hi Nick,

got the same problem here. The problem is wrong depenedencies in 
debian/testing. Do not know, why the package team did not care. This problem 
is since kde5 is out. 

It took me hours, to get kde5 running again and I had to do some tricks.
At the moment the greatest problem is, that kwin-x11 and its dependencies are 
deinstalled at upgrade, as well as plasma-desktop.

I solved the problem with a trick:

Activate debian/unstable in the sources.list, then do an apt-get update.
Do NOT USE aptitude!

When this is done, try to install plasma-desktop and kwin-x11 again by using 
apt-get. Again: Do not use aptitude, as you get wromng dependencies.

If you get kde5 running again, remove the entry of unstable in sources.list.

Now start synaptic, and install the missing packages for kde5. I installed 
those with the version 5.3.2-1.

Hint: breeze must be installed, but a better look is with oxygen-dsx. You have 
to download this environment.

Also breeze misses some icons, so i switched to nouvola design, which must be 
extra downloaded, too.

Hope this helps a little bit. 

Good luck! 

Hans  

kde 5 display problem

[Nick Zarkadas]

Hi all.
After upgrade to kde5 my desktop doesn't display icons anymore
All icons became black (see the attachments for details or click
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gyr3bzuu4mhyfyr/snapshot1_desktop_kde_5_with_dolphin.png?dl=0
and
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1azehqpu2evry5j/snapshot1_desktop_kde_5.png?dl=0 )

I use the debian testing release , my video driver is nouveau and my
graphics card
is an old nvidia FX5200.
Does anyone has an idea why this happed?
Thanks !

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 01 September 2015 09:08:19 Richard Owlett wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 01 September 2015 01:41:20 rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> >> To facilitate our search for property and discussion over the
> >> telephone of various properties, my client wishes me to install
> >> google earth.[SNIP]
> >
> > No clue about safety, but its unsupported and doesn't work at all
> > well with the nouveau drivers. Essentially it should be considered
> > deprecated.
> >
> > There is a newer format, used by the weather maps on most local tv
> > station web sites. Preset to show about 1/4 of WV on my old stations
> > site, but put your mouse on it, and roll the wheel and the scale can
> > be reduced to planet sized, then grabbed at the mouse pointer
> > location and drag it to turn the planet until your area of interest
> > is centered, put the mouse there and zoom back in.  All of this in
> > very close to real time, easily 100x faster than GE has ever run on
> > one of my machines.
> >
> > Works with iceweazel and chromium, no GE install needed.  Just a
> > recent browser.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Sounds interesting. What is it? Where do I find it?
> TIA

Its the live weathermap on the web site of your local tv station. it 
shows a couple of usages on  and seems to have become the 
favorite way to display the last 4 hours of so of radar detected weather 
activity.  The background data is from google of course, called google 
maps, its a login required page at google, I don't remember my pw so 
I've had the site email a reset msg.  The web server using it then 
overlays the radar data in a roughly 4 hours worth of history moving 
overlay.

That email hasn't been received, so I assume I have never registered.  
Didn't need to, the weather maps work fine for that here.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Darac Marjal]

On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 03:31:22AM -0500, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> On Tue, September 1, 2015 12:41 am, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> > To facilitate our search for property and discussion over the telephone
> > of various properties, my client wishes me to install google earth.
> >
> > I see that Debian has a google earth package.
> >
> > In view of our recent discussion "laptop protection in an office
> > network", I am curious as to what danger of compromise, if any, is
> > incurred by the installation of google earth.
> 
> Answering my own question:  After installing the Debian package (which is
> a script to download google earth and make of it a Debian package) I would
> have proceded except for the fact that (according to the Debian README
> file, it currently works only on x86 packages, because google earth is an
> i386 binary.  But my laptop is an amd64.  And I am unwilling to run
> proprietary google code on my desktop machine.

In that case, consider "marble", which provides a similar "virtual
globe" and is LGPL 2.1+ licensed.

> 
> RLH
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: /var/lib/apt/lists/partial fills entire partition

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 9/1/15, Elimar Riesebieter  wrote:
> * Tony van der Hoff  [2015-09-01 14:17 +0200]:
>
>> On this jessie box I have started to see /var/lib/apt/lists/partial
>> gradually filling the entire 2.7 GiB /var partition with hundreds of
>> smallish files. Google show some results for a similar, but not
>> identical problem for Ubuntu but I can't find anything matching this.
>>
>> This problem has developed over the last few days.
>>
>> A partial directory listing is attached (to circumvent wrapping).
>>
>> Can anyone suggest a remedy to this problem, please?
>
> Try
>
> # apt-get clean
>
> From apt-get(8):
>
> clean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. It
> removes everything but the lock file from /var/cache/apt/archives/ and
> /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/.
>
> So after an apt-get update /var/lib/apt/lists/partial should be
> recharged at least to zero size.



Let us know if it starts filling back up again. I'd already started an
answer and had to run outside and... put the trash can on the curb.
Part of that answer was to say that location is where at least apt
(via apt-get update) temporarily stores "partial" files as its
downloading updates from our *_CHOICE_* of repositories. If partial
continues magically self-propagating and not emptying, obviously
something needs dissected/triggered/toggled off if it's not you
manually, consciously performing related [functions] that would result
in that activity.

If you use something other than apt (apt-get) to update your software,
do they offer the option to update automatically? Maybe that's toggled
on?

I'm just... looking at your output there and comparing it to mine.
Your partial for this one, e.g.:

4584913 Sep  1 13:58
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2

You're talking about a zip file that got hung up there for some
reason. Maybe it's not completely downloaded so then you have to track
down why...

Or maybe the system's not finishing the transaction after a successful
download for some reason?

In my case, I've actually sat here and watched it run live. Those
partials *APPEAR* to become what's in the next step up, the parent
directory, /var/lib/apt/lists.

So the question is potentially two-fold. Why is there SO MUCH of that
activity if user is NOT manually/knowingly generating it and/or
why is the process not completing successfully if it's a legitimately
approved auto-update?

Speaking firsthand, one way it MIGHT happen is if someone is on
something like dialup or alternately if they only access the Internet
sporadically (i.e. disconnect unexpectedly throughout the day). Those
update related downloads would get interrupted, and that MIGHT be one
cause for what's showing in OP's partial directory.

My take on this is coming from firsthand experience rather than
knowing how Debian technically works. I've seen something like OP's
directory happen on my system but can't remember the exact
circumstances now. In my case of being on dialup, the appearance has
occasionally been that a repository's server has cut updates off
because the server's tired of struggling under the 967 BYTES download
rate on my end..

Cindy :)

PS Ok, I just checked my inbox one more time before sending this.
Elimar and David replied with David's thought being similar to my own.
Compression was a word I was actually looking for. Like something's
not completing there that should be so that those files are
decompressed and then magically manipulated together to become what's
housed in the /var/lib/apt/lists parent directory... :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs... behind an ~80-year-old push reel mower *

Re: logrotate permissions problem

[D. R. Evans]

D. R. Evans wrote on 08/31/2015 01:09 PM:

>> The solution of this problem should be as simple as:
>>
>> chgrp adm /var/log/polipo/pol*
>> rm -f /var/log/polipo/polipo.log.1.gz
> 
> OK; I have done that, and will let you know tomorrow whether the problem has
> gone away.
> 

Yep; no notification from the system last night, so the solution looks like
it's worked.

Thank you very much.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR



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Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login

[The Wanderer]

(It just occurred to me that I posted the previous set of partial
"what's happening" descriptions under the unchanged Subject line of the
overall thread. Oops.)

On 2015-09-01 at 09:49, Michael Biebl wrote:

> Am 01.09.2015 um 15:08 schrieb The Wanderer:
> 
>> [  123.134567] systemd-logind[1234]: Failed to start user service:
>> Unknown unit: user@1000.service
> 
>> Note that this is on a system with only some parts of "the systemd
>> suite" present, and with systemd _not_ running as PID1. (I apologize for
>> not mentioning that earlier; it's been long enough since I was changing
>> any related part of this laptop's config that I didn't remember the
>> exact details of how I'd left it.) Specifically:
>> 
>> $ dpkg -l "*systemd*" | grep ii
>> ii  libpam-systemd:amd64  224-1amd64system and servi
>> ii  libsystemd0:amd64 224-1amd64systemd utility
>> ii  libsystemd0:i386  224-1i386 systemd utility
>> ii  systemd   224-1amd64system and servi
>> ii  systemd-shim  9-1  amd64shim for systemd
> 
> This is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756247
> 
> And yes, this is due to running systemd-logind under
> sysvinit/systemd-shim, but not under systemd as PID 1.

I remember that bug, but as far as I recall and as far as I can tell
it's only about this one single line, not about the rest of the messages
I'm talking about.

Also, that bug report claims that this was fixed in systemd-shim
upstream in November 2014, but I'm still seeing it in the version of
systemd-shim which is now in Debian testing. Has the fix somehow not
made it into a Debian package yet? Is there more to the story which
didn't get discussed on that bug report?

...I should probably ask those types of questions _on_ the bug report,
really.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: /var/lib/apt/lists/partial fills entire partition

[David Wright]

Quoting Elimar Riesebieter (riese...@lxtec.de):
> * Tony van der Hoff  [2015-09-01 14:17 +0200]:
> 
> > On this jessie box I have started to see /var/lib/apt/lists/partial
> > gradually filling the entire 2.7 GiB /var partition with hundreds of
> > smallish files. Google show some results for a similar, but not
> > identical problem for Ubuntu but I can't find anything matching this.
> > 
> > This problem has developed over the last few days.
> > 
> > A partial directory listing is attached (to circumvent wrapping).
> > 
> > Can anyone suggest a remedy to this problem, please?

I don't have any answer to this, only questions.

Presumably   ls -lt   tells you when these files were created. Is this
periodic, and is this because you have automated apt-get update?

If you run   apt-get update   manually, do you get errors? After doing
that, is there a new tranche of files? Or are there any fewer?
The .decomp. names suggest decompression has taken place and these are
the output files. Perhaps decompression is failing and setting a
return code preventing further treatment.

> Try
> 
> # apt-get clean
> 
> From apt-get(8):
> 
> clean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. It
> removes everything but the lock file from /var/cache/apt/archives/ and
> /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/.
> 
> So after an apt-get update /var/lib/apt/lists/partial should be
> recharged at least to zero size.

Unfortunately,   apt-get clean   cleans the *cache*, not the lists.
But in any case, best not wipe away the symptoms without looking for
a cause first as there may be clues in the files' properties.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[tomas]

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On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 10:07:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2015-09-01 at 09:58, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > As long as "we" use up our spare cycles bickering, nothing will get
> > done :-)
> 
> I actually use up most of my "spare cycles" on other projects [...]

fair enough

> [...] Of what's left, the unfortunate reality is that it takes far
> less to engage in a discussion like this one than it would to make
> any difference at all [...]

How true.

> Which is not to say I'd be entirely opposed to taking part in such a
> project, by any means - just that I wouldn't be able to commit to
> anything, especially not for the long term, unless and/or until I can
> get some of my other things out of the way.

Well, who knows. If there's enough interest, things will move. I'm
still figuring out where I'd fit in all of this.

Regards
- -- tomás
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Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[Joel Rees]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:03 AM, T.J. Duchene  wrote:
>
> On 08/31/2015 05:14 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
>>
>> Actually, there's a couple or three questions going begging here, that
>> I'd like to ask:
>
> Sure, ask away! =)
>
>>
>> (1) TJ, have you ever built LFS? Or, even better, built a running OS
>> on top of the Linux kernel without even the help of the LFS tutorial
>> and tool set?
>
> No, I have never used LFS.

Yeah.

> I have, however rebuilt or otherwise modified:
> Debian, Gentoo, RedHat and others over the last couple decades.

There is a difference between what I asked and what you're telling me.

Simply tweaking and recompiling debian or redhat is not what I'm
asking about, although it can be tedious enough. Nor is building a
functioning gentoo really.

I'm asking if you have built an OS from scratch, including the
userland tools and apps, for a specific, non-trivial purpose.

I'm not asking for your CV/resume.

>  That is
> not including other things Unix: like Solaris. No, I have not always had
> documentation and sometimes had to figure it would myself.

Documentation is not really the issue.

> Is there a more specific answer you wanted?

You have already given me your answer.

>> (1a) If you have, have you ever implemented your own init system for a
>> Linux-based OS that you built yourself?
>
> No, I never had a reason to.

Clearly.

> As with many things, necessity breeds invention.  I have had no reason to
> invent my own when I can modify an existing one to do what I want.

And there we have, in a nutshell, why it's a little disingenuous of
you to raise the "You can always build your own!" argument.

You haven't done this one.

> With
> respect,

Should I believe you when you say that? (I know it seems to be picky
of me, but I've often found that this particular expression is used
more in the ironic mood. So I ask. Not that it's fair of me to ask,
because I know it's not a question that can be answered meaningfully.
But please don't ask me to assume that assertion means anything,
either.)

> I doubt most programmers would bother creating an entirely new init
> unless they had a pressing need or just wanted something new.  The whole
> point of open source is adaptation.

Perhaps it is to you. But if I needed only adaptation, the Macintosh
is a much more comfortable environment to do the adaptation thing in.

I have other needs. Unfortunately, there is no current OS/community
that can provide me those needs. The nice, though uncomfortable, thing
about the systemd business is that it brought my attention to that
fact.

> There are quite a few inits to chose from.  The fact that Systemd was
> created in addition to the dozen or so previously existed probably had more
> to do with cgroups than anything else if you ask me.

Well, I never said I cared much for cgroups, either. Quite the opposite, really.

cgroups is, in fact, part of the stuff I specifically do not need in my OS.

>> (2) Having done that much, have you ever kept that system maintained
>> and updated, even at just the level of keeping only the critical
>> applications patched or updated against vulnerabilities on a timely
>> basis?
>
> Yes, I have.

Well, ...

>  I used to manage servers for ISPs.  Yes, I'd even patched them
> by hand because the OEM no longer provided updates.

Hey, we've all managed servers and/or workstations here, I think. Or
we are learning how. That's not the question I'm asking.

And, since you haven't built the OS from scratch, ...

No. I beg to disagree with you, but I don't think you have maintained
an OS you've built from scratch. Sorry.

Your CV looks promising, but that's not what I'm asking you about.

>> Okay, there's actually one more question here:
>>
>> (3) Have you ever done the first two while holding down a full-time,
>> 40+ hour a week job that doesn't particularly make allowances for
>> employees that need to spend the time necessary for maintaining their
>> OS?
>
> Well, I can honestly say "No."  As I said, I have never bothered to write a
> new init from scratch.

There it is.

> What you are really asking

Please don't put words in my mouth.

> is when I was working other jobs as we all have,
> and maintain my own systems as best I could on my own time.  Sure.  We all
> do the best we can.  None of us are perfect and I have never claimed to be
> either.

Perfection is hard to achieve, as el viejo used to say. It's also not
really what I'm asking about.

>> If you have, how long did you keep it up without developing
>> personality issues for lack of sleep, developing dysfunctional
>> digestion problems like ulcers and diabetes, and/or ending up breaking
>> up your family?
>
> Well, to be perfectly honest, I do have some of those problems. Some are bad
> enough to where I am probably on medication for the rest of my life.

Sorry to hear that. There are doctors who want to get me on
medications for life, too. Fortunately, I know just enough medicine to
avoid needing what they sell.

I don't t

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[The Wanderer]

On 2015-09-01 at 09:58, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:16:10AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-09-01 at 07:38, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>> I ask because I'd like myself and I'd like to get an idea
>>> whether there's enough community for that [...]
> 
>> I've considered it, but - to borrow a phrase from a fragment of
>> discussion I took part in with Russ Allbery once - I didn't, and
>> don't, have the spare cycles to do much about it myself.
> 
> As long as "we" use up our spare cycles bickering, nothing will get
> done :-)

I actually use up most of my "spare cycles" on other projects, mainly
either work-related or in the service of keeping my stress levels down
far enough to remain relatively sane. Of what's left, the unfortunate
reality is that it takes far less to engage in a discussion like this
one than it would to make any difference at all in a project of the type
being suggested.

Which is not to say I'd be entirely opposed to taking part in such a
project, by any means - just that I wouldn't be able to commit to
anything, especially not for the long term, unless and/or until I can
get some of my other things out of the way.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[tomas]

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On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:16:10AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2015-09-01 at 07:38, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:

[...]

> > I ask because I'd like myself and I'd like to get an idea whether
> > there's enough community for that [...]

> I've considered it, but - to borrow a phrase from a fragment of
> discussion I took part in with Russ Allbery once - I didn't, and don't,
> have the spare cycles to do much about it myself.

As long as "we" use up our spare cycles bickering, nothing will get
done :-)

regards
- -- tomás
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Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[Michael Biebl]

Am 01.09.2015 um 15:08 schrieb The Wanderer:

> [  123.134567] systemd-logind[1234]: Failed to start user service:
> Unknown unit: user@1000.service


> Note that this is on a system with only some parts of "the systemd
> suite" present, and with systemd _not_ running as PID1. (I apologize for
> not mentioning that earlier; it's been long enough since I was changing
> any related part of this laptop's config that I didn't remember the
> exact details of how I'd left it.) Specifically:
> 
> $ dpkg -l "*systemd*" | grep ii
> ii  libpam-systemd:amd64  224-1amd64system and servi
> ii  libsystemd0:amd64 224-1amd64systemd utility
> ii  libsystemd0:i386  224-1i386 systemd utility
> ii  systemd   224-1amd64system and servi
> ii  systemd-shim  9-1  amd64shim for systemd

This is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756247

And yes, this is due to running systemd-logind under
sysvinit/systemd-shim, but not under systemd as PID 1.





-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login

[The Wanderer]

On 2015-09-01 at 05:15, Martin Read wrote:

> On 01/09/15 04:07, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> I believe that's roughly how it works, yes - and I believe rsyslog
>> is intentionally set up that way, so that various system messages
>> which would appear in the active console if the journal were not
>> present will still appear there. It's just that now there are
>> _more_ messages, which would not have existed in the absence of
>> systemd-the-collection-of-binaries-which-orbit-the-PID1-binary.
>> (These unambiguous names get kind of unwieldy...)
> 
> "the systemd suite".

Good suggestion; I'll try to adopt it. Thanks.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[The Wanderer]

On 2015-09-01 at 07:38, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-08-31 at 10:49, Christian Seiler wrote:
>> 
>>> On 08/31/2015 02:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> The Subject line is an overstatement, yes, but it's not an
>> entirely baseless one. Consider:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> * Therefore, the only way to avoid the friction which arises from
>> that interaction and its undesirable results is to either not use
>> su or not use systemd. (And not using systemd is an increasingly
>> pushing-against-the-current proposition. It's possible, but it's
>> becoming less and less the default.)
> 
> Just a question: have you ever considered seriously *doing* anything
> about that?
> 
> I ask because I'd like myself and I'd like to get an idea whether
> there's enough community for that. No flamewars, no mud-slinging,
> just *doing*.

I've considered it, but - to borrow a phrase from a fragment of
discussion I took part in with Russ Allbery once - I didn't, and don't,
have the spare cycles to do much about it myself.

I was planning to watch the various attempts at alternatives and forks
which people were starting (such as uselessd, already mentioned here on
the list), and investigate them more deeply once I was distanced enough
from the original arguments that I had stress-level depth to spare for
it. So far that hasn't happened, though, and apparently at least some of
these projects have already been abandoned...

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[The Wanderer]

On 2015-08-31 at 13:25, David Wright wrote:

> Quoting The Wanderer (wande...@fastmail.fm):
> 
>> Debian could not have chosen systemd if Lennart had not written it,
>> and Debian could not have chosen systemd-in-its-current-form if
>> Lennart had not designed it in that form, so some layer of the
>> blame does fall on him.
> 
> That's a very interesting argument. Can we apply it to Presidents'
> parents?

A person's parents do not design or define that person. They have input,
which is not to be entirely discounted - but even on the assumption that
"nature vs. nurture" gets resolved entirely in favor of nurture, there
are many other sources for "nurture" than just the parents.

Plus, of course, a person has a mind of his/her/etc. own, which a
program or set of programs does not. (Barring AI or obscure arguable
corner cases, anyway.)

All that aside, blaming parents does happen in the real world - things
like "you didn't raise that boy right" appear often enough in certain
parts of the culture.

>> There are plenty of reports of systems which worked just fine with
>> a given configuration which do not work with that configuration
>> after being transitioned to systemd; for one easy non-cosmetic
>> example (there are apparently others), consider the "a failed mount
>> which is not explicitly marked for failures to be ignored will
>> result in a failed boot" behavior, which did not occur without
>> systemd but does happen with systemd.
>> 
>> Yes, you can change your system's configuration to make it work,
>> but in a stable system you shouldn't have to. (And I'm not talking
>> about "stable" in the sense of the Debian repository codenames; I'm
>> talking about 'stable" in the larger sense.)
> 
> I can't see what's wrong with adding new features or with changing 
> defaults. Your example was documented in the release notes.

I was speaking to the claim that systemd represented a lack of
stability, vs. the claim that no instability had been seen because of
systemd. (Paraphrasing in both cases.)

Adding new features, while remaining 100% backwards compatible, is not
ordinarily a problem - except inasmuch as doing so has side effects like
increasing footprint or increasing attack surface, which is a separate
discussion.

Changing defaults isn't inherently a problem either (although I have an
entire other discussion there), but it's difficult to claim that such a
change is stable behavior.

>> On a more cosmetic level, without systemd, if you use a "quiet"
>> option on the kernel command line you will silence kernel output
>> during boot but not silence service-startup (etc.) option during
>> the later stages of the bootstrap process - but with systemd, using
>> that option silences both kernel output _and_ service-startup
>> (etc.) output..
>> 
>> Yes, you can add half-a-dozen-ish systemd-specific options on the
>> kernel command line to get systemd to display the same combination
>> of output types as would have happened by default without systemd -
>> but if you have to change your system configuration in order to get
>> the same behavior, that system is not behaving in a stable
>> fashion.
> 
> All I've added to /etc/default/grub is   systemd.show_status=true
> which gives me about the same level of output from booting as before.
> (A bit more, it's true: eg it says both starting and started for each
> service, and the granularity is finer.)

Hmm. Maybe I'm remembering wrong; I thought that when people complained
about this before, the documentation to which they were pointed listed
various individual options to re-enable various different types of boot
messages separately. I did not see one to enable the messages en-masse
which would not also enable the messages which the original 'quiet'
option would have silenced. If such an option does exist and function,
that blunts this example pretty solidly.

>> Also on a mostly-cosmetic level, if you log in at a text console
>> without systemd, you will get a certain set of messages, coming
>> mostly from login and from your shell - but with systemd, logging
>> in at a text console also produces a mess of extra messages coming
>> from logind, which are largely irrelevant to whoever just logged in
>> and which step all over either the original set of messages or the
>> actual shell prompt.
>> 
>> As far as I've been able to determine, there is no way to get
>> logind to not produce these messages, without also preventing it
>> from producing messages later - or in background logging - which
>> you might actually want. And, if I'm interpreting the situation
>> correctly, you will probably see these messages in your console
>> every time _anyone_ gets a new "session" on that computer, even if
>> it's not you. This is the final-straw behavior which led me to
>> reject systemd for my own systems.

(For clarification, the reason this was the final straw was that it
meant I could not simply ignore the presence of systemd entirely for
normal use, since this would push it in

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Richard Owlett]

Gene Heskett wrote:

On Tuesday 01 September 2015 01:41:20 rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:


To facilitate our search for property and discussion over the
telephone of various properties, my client wishes me to install google
earth.[SNIP]

No clue about safety, but its unsupported and doesn't work at all well
with the nouveau drivers. Essentially it should be considered
deprecated.

There is a newer format, used by the weather maps on most local tv
station web sites. Preset to show about 1/4 of WV on my old stations
site, but put your mouse on it, and roll the wheel and the scale can be
reduced to planet sized, then grabbed at the mouse pointer location and
drag it to turn the planet until your area of interest is centered, put
the mouse there and zoom back in.  All of this in very close to real
time, easily 100x faster than GE has ever run on one of my machines.

Works with iceweazel and chromium, no GE install needed.  Just a recent
browser.

Cheers, Gene Heskett



Sounds interesting. What is it? Where do I find it?
TIA

Re: /var/lib/apt/lists/partial fills entire partition

[Elimar Riesebieter]

* Tony van der Hoff  [2015-09-01 14:17 +0200]:

> On this jessie box I have started to see /var/lib/apt/lists/partial
> gradually filling the entire 2.7 GiB /var partition with hundreds of
> smallish files. Google show some results for a similar, but not
> identical problem for Ubuntu but I can't find anything matching this.
> 
> This problem has developed over the last few days.
> 
> A partial directory listing is attached (to circumvent wrapping).
> 
> Can anyone suggest a remedy to this problem, please?

Try

# apt-get clean

From apt-get(8):

clean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. It
removes everything but the lock file from /var/cache/apt/archives/ and
/var/cache/apt/archives/partial/.

So after an apt-get update /var/lib/apt/lists/partial should be
recharged at least to zero size.

Elimar


-- 
 Learned men are the cisterns of knowledge,
  not the fountainheads ;-)

/var/lib/apt/lists/partial fills entire partition

[Tony van der Hoff]

On this jessie box I have started to see /var/lib/apt/lists/partial
gradually filling the entire 2.7 GiB /var partition with hundreds of
smallish files. Google show some results for a similar, but not
identical problem for Ubuntu but I can't find anything matching this.

This problem has developed over the last few days.

A partial directory listing is attached (to circumvent wrapping).

Can anyone suggest a remedy to this problem, please?

-- 
Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |
root@tony-lt:/var/lib/apt/lists/partial# ls -l
total 283456
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   165207 Sep  1 04:46 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie-backports_InRelease.reverify
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root50124 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_contrib_binary-amd64_Packages.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root38404 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_contrib_i18n_Translation-en.bz2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root50744 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_contrib_source_Sources.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  6767580 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_binary-amd64_Packages.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  1744896 Sep  1 10:27 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_binary-amd64_Packages.xz.decomp.BMkPJi
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  2056192 Sep  1 10:15 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_binary-amd64_Packages.xz.decomp.BRNX9i
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  4030464 Sep  1 10:39 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_binary-amd64_Packages.xz.decomp.HojPRH
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  4584913 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10797056 Sep  1 10:22 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.2WXiDR
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  9400320 Sep  1 11:03 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.4fBXOz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13623296 Sep  1 09:57 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.5otjuI
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12353536 Sep  1 10:27 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.7iM39J
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11296768 Sep  1 10:34 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.aktHVf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13496320 Sep  1 10:15 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.djvbVs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 22040576 Sep  1 10:46 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.E6UHC3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  6778880 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.lNsVwq
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11616256 Sep  1 10:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.M1LYBc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12394496 Sep  1 10:39 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.nOxAlM
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  7618560 Sep  1 10:51 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.oAEsRs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12730368 Sep  1 10:03 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.Sc0l6u
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10797056 Sep  1 11:10 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.xmJAvE
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 14397440 Sep  1 11:22 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-en.bz2.decomp.Znzko8
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  7059248 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_source_Sources.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 27451392 Sep  1 10:51 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_source_Sources.xz.decomp.8yuGu9
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  9166848 Sep  1 10:09 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_source_Sources.xz.decomp.NAXsxl
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 26550272 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_source_Sources.xz.decomp.TkuDKK
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 28758016 Sep  1 11:03 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_source_Sources.xz.decomp.usuQ4F
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root83552 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_non-free_binary-amd64_Packages.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   176128 Sep  1 10:03 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_non-free_binary-amd64_Packages.xz.decomp.9ArRKq
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root72177 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_non-free_i18n_Translation-en.bz2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root99368 Sep  1 13:58 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_non-free_source_Sources.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   32 Sep  1 10:18 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie-updates_contrib_binary-amd64_Packages.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   14 Sep  1 10:18 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie-updates_contrib_i18n_Translation-en.bz2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   32 Sep  1 10:18 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie-updates_contrib_source_Sources.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   141762 Sep  1 04:46 
ftp.uk.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie-updates_InRelease.reverify
-rw-r--r-- 1 root

HW error

[a a]

Hello

After checking randomly dmesg i have found following error on my debian
system.

[18299.816097] [Hardware Error]: CPU:0
MC4_STATUS[-|CE|MiscV|-|AddrV|-|-|CECC]: 0x9c64c0b0011c017b [18299.816108]
[Hardware Error]: MC4_ADDR: 0x00011ef37840 [18299.816113] [Hardware
Error]: Northbridge Error (node 0): L3 ECC data cache error. [18299.816119]
[Hardware Error]: cache level: L3/GEN, tx: GEN, mem-tx: EV
This error message has appeard only once for now.

My hw configuration is AMD FX-4100 with enabled overclock. When utilizing
two cores the cpu clock goes to 3,8 GHz. The cpu was not overclocked
manualy for long time, only for test a then back to default.

Can you tell my if this is bad hw or this message signals other problems ?

Thank you

Have a nice day

Re: How to read mail addressed to "root" from "root" user?

[Wouter Verhelst]

(this isn't about Debian development anymore. I've added a Cc to
debian-user; if you have any follow-up questions, please drop the -devel
Cc).

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:44:04PM +0300, Jayson Willson wrote:
> Thank you very much for your answer!
> Could you please tell me, why is it recommended to forward root's mail to
> regular user? I sometimes log in as root on tty or via sudo to administer
> system, and thus I would be able to have root's and user's mailboxes
> separated, while still reading root's mail.

Just have your system deliver it in a separate mailbox, then.

If you have the "allow_filter" option in your userforward router
enabled, you can do that by creating a file ~/.forward with the
following content:

# Exim filter <== do not remove this, exim checks it
if $h_to: contains "root"
then
  save /path/to/Maildir/rootmails/
  finish
endif

with the default exim config, this will cause it to be delivered in a
maildir with the given path name.

You can then read it with

mutt -f /path/to/Maildir/rootmails

as the normal user, rather than as root.

(or you could set up an IMAP server, yada yada)

> Is there anything that I have missed?

The security implications of using a MUA as root.

If there is an exploitable bug in your MUA, you may end up with a
compromised system.

-- 
It is easy to love a country that is famous for chocolate and beer

  -- Barack Obama, speaking in Brussels, Belgium, 2014-03-26

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2015-08-31 at 10:49, Christian Seiler wrote:
> 
> > On 08/31/2015 02:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote:

[...]

> The Subject line is an overstatement, yes, but it's not an entirely
> baseless one. Consider:

[...]

> * Therefore, the only way to avoid the friction which arises from that
> interaction and its undesirable results is to either not use su or not
> use systemd. (And not using systemd is an increasingly
> pushing-against-the-current proposition. It's possible, but it's
> becoming less and less the default.)

Just a question: have you ever considered seriously *doing* anything
about that?

I ask because I'd like myself and I'd like to get an idea whether there's
enough community for that. No flamewars, no mud-slinging, just *doing*.

regards
- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlXljicACgkQBcgs9XrR2ka6RQCffTJi3fWLqk6TERMarSkVrw7O
sP0An3LKx/LaaliQ9WTZA3Qfm5M4bDob
=ZKiL
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Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login

[Martin Read]

On 01/09/15 04:07, The Wanderer wrote:

I believe that's roughly how it works, yes - and I believe rsyslog is
intentionally set up that way, so that various system messages which
would appear in the active console if the journal were not present will
still appear there. It's just that now there are _more_ messages, which
would not have existed in the absence of
systemd-the-collection-of-binaries-which-orbit-the-PID1-binary. (These
unambiguous names get kind of unwieldy...)


"the systemd suite".

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 01 September 2015 01:41:20 rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:

> To facilitate our search for property and discussion over the
> telephone of various properties, my client wishes me to install google
> earth.
>
> I see that Debian has a google earth package.
>
> In view of our recent discussion "laptop protection in an office
> network", I am curious as to what danger of compromise, if any, is
> incurred by the installation of google earth.
>
> RLH

No clue about safety, but its unsupported and doesn't work at all well 
with the nouveau drivers. Essentially it should be considered 
deprecated.

There is a newer format, used by the weather maps on most local tv 
station web sites. Preset to show about 1/4 of WV on my old stations 
site, but put your mouse on it, and roll the wheel and the scale can be 
reduced to planet sized, then grabbed at the mouse pointer location and 
drag it to turn the planet until your area of interest is centered, put 
the mouse there and zoom back in.  All of this in very close to real 
time, easily 100x faster than GE has ever run on one of my machines.

Works with iceweazel and chromium, no GE install needed.  Just a recent 
browser.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: is google earth safe to install?

[rlharris]

On Tue, September 1, 2015 12:41 am, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> To facilitate our search for property and discussion over the telephone
> of various properties, my client wishes me to install google earth.
>
> I see that Debian has a google earth package.
>
> In view of our recent discussion "laptop protection in an office
> network", I am curious as to what danger of compromise, if any, is
> incurred by the installation of google earth.

Answering my own question:  After installing the Debian package (which is
a script to download google earth and make of it a Debian package) I would
have proceded except for the fact that (according to the Debian README
file, it currently works only on x86 packages, because google earth is an
i386 binary.  But my laptop is an amd64.  And I am unwilling to run
proprietary google code on my desktop machine.

RLH