Re: Info

[Mark Fletcher]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 9:27 PM Satya Prakash Prasad <
satyaprakash.pra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am in need to build gcc-4.9/libgcc1_4.9.2-10_amd64.deb locally so that I
> can copy this deb file to another host for installation.
>
> I am aware that we can build .deb & install file using below steps:
>
> # apt-get source gcc-4.9
> # apt-get build-dep gcc-4.9
> # cd 
> # dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us
> # dpkg -i 
>
> I tried out the steps and found that during build process a lot of test
> suites where also executed - is there a way confirm its acceptance criteria
> or certify the package build?
>
> Is there a report where can refer of the test suite it ran during the
> build operation - which failed / which passed / issues or concern if any?
>
> Regards,
> Prakash
>
> Look at the output of the build process. Especially the "make check" step.
It should tell you where it put the report.

Mark

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Mark Fletcher]

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:43 AM Brian  wrote:

> On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 15:49:28 +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:04 PM Brian  wrote:
> >
> > > Sticking with the idea of using a systemd service file, the script it
> > > runs would check the time and alter the routing table when necessary.
> > > Neither cron nor iptables need come into the picture.
> > >
> > Thanks Brian. My thinking was that although this machine won't be on all
> > the time, it will be started and stopped at unpredictable times. I wanted
> > to have a situation where if it is brought up during allowed hours, the
> > internet works. If it is brought up during not-allowed hours, it doesn't,
> > until 9am arrives, at which point it starts working. So if my son gets
> out
> > of bed at 3am and fires up the computer, he gets nowhere (at least until
> he
> > figures out how to hack into my own machine and run an ssh session with X
> > forwarding... but if he figures that out without my help I'm almost
> > inclined to reward him by turning a blind eye :-) )
> >
> > Similarly, if he is surfing away on it at 9pm, well by then he is
> supposed
> > to be at least in the bath if not in bed, so the computer's internet
> > connection sets an example by going to sleep...
> >
> > If he leaves it on, I want it to connect and disconnect automatically at
> > the appropriate times, and if he doesn't, I want it to come up in the
> right
> > state. If I leave a hole in this that can be exploited without strong
> > technical skills, I'm confident he'll find it...
>
> Without the root password or sudo he should be unable to influence the
> routing. The machine will always come up with a route to the internet
> because you are using DHCP. But that shouldn't last for more thn thirty
> seconds if we can get systemd to do its stuff.
>
> We'll forget about a fixed IP. DHCP gets you an address and a default
> route when it boots. Check the latter with 'ip route'. You want a
> default route to the internet between 9am and 9pm but not otherwise.
> Consider this script
>
>   #!/bin/bash
>   while :
>   do
>   HOUR=$(date +%H)
>   if ((9 <= $HOUR && $HOUR <= 21)); then
>  echo "Help with the washingup, tidy your room, make yourself useful."
>   else
>  echo "Have a bath. Go to bed."
>   fi
>   sleep 30
>   done
>
> The first echo line would be replaced with
>
>   ip route add default via  dev 
>
> You need this in the event the machine is left on overnight and the
> second echo line
>
>   ip route del default via  dev 
>
> is in force.
>
> The script would go in /user/local/bin and be run by a systemd service
> file with its Exec directive. You should run the script first and check
> that it does do what you want. Altering the "9" and the "21" will help.
> You probably want a "one-shot" service file. You're ok with devising
> that?
>
> > I could give the box a fixed IP but I have always used DHCP on my local
> > network and don't want to disturb my habits more than necessary for this.
>
> It wasn't a important suggested change.
>
> > Also this would get rid of the need for DHCP but wouldn't get rid of NTP
> > calls, and then I'd get them vomiting all over the logs when they fail to
> > connect. Not a big problem, certainly, but an elegant solution would
> avoid
> > it.
>
> Have the script stop and start the NTP service. Elegant enough?
>
> > I didn't mention earlier, and I'm not sure if it is relevant, but the
> > computer connects via WiFi to my access point, which is also my network's
> > internet gateway -- with an LFS box between it and the cable modem as a
> > dedicated firewall. I don't trust the non-free firewall in the AP,
> although
>
> WiFi or cable shouldn't be a concern. Both set up routing in the same way.
>
> > I have left it on. The rest of my network is not to be subject to this
> 9pm
> > curfew. And I would ideally like connectivity between this machine and
> the
> > rest of my local network to remain even when the internet is denied to
> this
> > machine, so I can do remote maintenance when he's not using the machine,
> > for example. If I monkey around with the default routing as you are
> > suggesting, does that have any negative implications for connectivity to
> > the rest of my local network?
>
> It shouldn't do because you will only be adjusting the route to get off
> your network. But that's where testing comes in.
>
> Finally, I am afraid I did not understand
> the
> > point you made about how cron can be avoided. If the machine's up when
> 9pm
> > arrives, I want internet connectivity to die so I can prise him off the
> > computer and get him to bed. In your idea, how can I make that happen
> > without a cron job?
>
> The script run by systemd takes care of what happens at a particular
> time. A cron-only solution is possible but I think the systemd way seems
> more flexible because the script can be adjusted.
>
> You are after an all-or-nothing solution and iptables is intended fo

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Mark Fletcher]

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 2:48 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 05, 2016 at 03:49:28PM +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:04 PM Brian  wrote:
> >
> > I didn't mention earlier, and I'm not sure if it is relevant, but the
> > computer connects via WiFi to my access point, which is also my network's
> > internet gateway -- with an LFS box between it and the cable modem as a
> > dedicated firewall. I don't trust the non-free firewall in the AP,
> although
> > I have left it on. The rest of my network is not to be subject to this
> 9pm
> > curfew. And I would ideally like connectivity between this machine and
> the
> > rest of my local network to remain even when the internet is denied to
> this
> > machine, so I can do remote maintenance when he's not using the machine,
> > for example.
>
>
> I have a new suggestion, based on this.
>
> Do all the filtering on your LFS box.
>
> Match your kid's machine by MAC address.
>
> Write two tiny scripts:
>
> #!/bin/sh
> iptables -D FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP
>
>
> #!/bin/sh
> iptables -I FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP
>
> (substituting in the appropriate MAC address for the machine, of
> course)
>
> and run the first one at 9 PM to disable internet access, and
> run the second one at 8 AM or whatever to re-enable it. Cron is
> your friend.
>
> The LFS box (and yes that is Linux From Scratch, all my other "real"
computers are Debian) sits between my AP (wireless & wired) and the cable
modem ie the wilds of the Internet. Used to be that the AP was plugged
straight into the cable modem, but about 6 months ago or so I set up this
LFS box using an ASUS mini PC, about 10% out of concern for what weaknesses
my AP's firewall might have that I didn't and never would know about, and
90% just to see if I could. The WAN port of the AP goes into one interface
of the firewall, the other goes to the cable modem. All my computers other
than the firewall itself are connected, wired or wireless, to the AP. The
wireless card built into the firewall box is disabled.

Since the AP is doing NAT, as I believe is normal for such a device that
thinks it is the last line of defence between the network and the Internet,
I am not sure that the LFS firewall machine will be able to see the MAC
addresses of the computers on my LAN. I just tried to do an experiment
involving logging in iptables on the firewall, but the logged information
doesn't seem to include MAC address so I couldn't check.

If in fact, I can expect the firewall to be able to see source computer LAN
mac addresses in this configuration, that has all sorts of other positive
implications which I would get excited about. I'd just assumed it wouldn't
be possible due to the layer of indirection provided by the AP.

Mark

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 20:02:58 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 13:48:54 -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
> > I have a new suggestion, based on this.
> > 
> > Do all the filtering on your LFS box.
> > 
> > Match your kid's machine by MAC address.
> > 
> > Write two tiny scripts:
> > 
> > #!/bin/sh
> > iptables -D FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP
> > 
> > 
> > #!/bin/sh
> > iptables -I FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP
> > 
> > (substituting in the appropriate MAC address for the machine, of
> > course)
> > 
> > and run the first one at 9 PM to disable internet access, and
> > run the second one at 8 AM or whatever to re-enable it. Cron is
> > your friend.
> 
> For this particular situation (LFS=Linux From Scratch?) this does appear
> to be the easiest (less work) and most obvious solution.

But not foolproof. As was said earlier

 > If I leave a hole in this that can be exploited without strong   
 >
 > technical skills, I'm confident he'll find it...

Wicd and network-manager are popular, so one of them could be on the
system. Someone in possession of a USB wireless adapter can plug it in
or use it to replace the existing one. Either of the softwares can be
used to configure the new interface. This interface has a MAC address
unknown to the LFS box. The interface name can be found with 'ip link'
so a default route can still be controlled.

No wicd and network-manager on the machine? No problem; a USB stick with
Debian on it and a reboot solves that. Plus it could be used for MAC
spoofing. :)

Re: Chromium jumps to any workspace it likes.......

[Charlie]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 12:47:43 -0500 David Wright sent:

> On Thu 04 Aug 2016 at 23:17:08 (+1000), Charlie wrote:
> > On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 07:29:23 -0500 John Hasler sent:
> >   
> > > Programs do sometimes open in other viewports..  
> > 
> > After contemplation, my reply is:
> > 
> > Until now, I have never had a program open in a different viewport
> > from where it was opened, unless...
> > 
> > Brought up and clicked on a program and before it could open, moved
> > my mouse cursor onto a different viewport and/or desktop before the
> > program/package had opened.  
> 
> Yes, that's normal behaviour. It is, of course, a race because you
> might not make it all the way to the desired location.
> 
> Sometimes fvwm can get tripped up itself. When I start X, I map
> 22 xterms on the 20 pages (xterm terminology). Occasionally, the first
> xterm will map on Page: 0 0 before fvwm has managed to switch to
> Page: 4 3 (I map them in turn from bottom right to top left).
> 
> The tool that allows me to map so many so quickly is xtoolwait, for
> which I still have to run the squeeze version.
> 
> > So after opening a program on a viewport that I had just had another
> > program finish opening. I would click on another program, and
> > before it opened, move the cursor to the desktop and viewport where
> > I wanted it to open and click on it, and it would open in that
> > location. However, that is by design. It opened exactly where
> > required.  
> 
> That sounds as if you're usingStyle * ManualPlacement
> which requires you to click to place the window when its frame
> appears (tethered to the cursor). I used to use that years ago but
> prefer   Style * TileCascadePlacement   nowadays.
> 
> Applications can dodge being placed manually if thy specify their
> own geometry specifically.
> 
> But I thought I would point out one detail in the workaround I gave.
> In the lines
> 
> + I All ('*Mozilla Firefox*') PipeRead '/bin/cat
> ${HOME}/.fvwm/move-firefox'
> + I All ('*Chromium*') PipeRead '/bin/cat ${HOME}/.fvwm/move-chromium'
> 
> the string is a pattern, so the asterisks at each end allow for the
> frequent changes in the Window Title that occur as you navigate
> the web. (You probably only need to first *.)
> 
> Cheers,
> David.

After contemplation, my reply is:

Thanks for your help David and others for letting me know I'm not
alone in this. It's very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, though I use FVWM I don't understand much about it and
am not certain where I should place what you have offered above. But,
other FVWM users, I am certain, will know.

Demonstration of my ignorance about FVWM:

New machine, format hard drive, install Debian testing. Install
packages individually as I need them.

Need and download FVWM then an FVWM configuration and remove and tweak
and try and, get what I like without knowing what I'm doing.

An instance is ~/.fvwm/menudefs.hook is never read. Don't know how to
get it read when the X server starts.

Some upgrades change the /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook, which
is read. The Debian menu no longer being created or read or whatever.

So just quickly copy my ~/.fvwm/menudefs.hook
to /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook and restart fvwm and am working again
with the Debian menu as I like it.

A task, yes, but simple enough.

It will however, demonstrate that I have no idea what I'm doing. Maybe
something to do with dumbness as I left school at age 14 years of age
and didn't touch a computer till I was 52 years old as I am a
peasanto, a man of the land.

So thank you for your help and taking the time to offer it. Though I'm
unable to do anything with it, I'm certain others will.

Be well,
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

In the midst of this chopping sea of civilized life, such are
the clouds and storms and quicksands and thousand-and-one items
to be allowed for, that a man has to live, if he would not
founder and go to the bottom and not make his port at all, by
dead reckoning, and he must be a great calculator indeed who
succeeds..Henry David Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 15:48:44 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Friday 05 August 2016 16:40:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > As for noticing the announcements, my expiry rules for this list
> > have already nuked the last of those messages just 3 or 4 days ago.
>
> That is hardly Jonathan's fault.  Do you accept only prolific posters?
>
> I am sure that there are those on the list who would breathe a sigh of
> relief, cheer and go out to the pub (or whatever you lot have instead
> ;-)  ) if you and I were to reduce our posts to the frequency of those
> of Jonathan, who is a long standing poster, and cheer even more loudly
> if either of us were ever to make as great a contribution.
>
> Lisi

Chuckle. I do declare I just got told to shut up. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 13:52:54 Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2016-08-05 11:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > So far, no links have included what I'd call a blow by blow, which
> > resulted in his projects being moved.
>
> It's not in any of the links in his message but in
>
> https://jdebp.eu/about-the-site.html
>
> In a nutshell, Virgin Media shut http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
> down without warning.

Luverly, just luverly I say. That sort of thing has been known to cause 
me to give away a piece of my mind I could spare. Obviously he had local 
backups, thanks to one of our many such insurance programs. I use amanda 
here, with some wrapper scripts I wrote.  Works right well, backing up 
all 4 machines in the middle of the night.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 13:52:54 Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2016-08-05 11:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > So far, no links have included what I'd call a blow by blow, which
> > resulted in his projects being moved.
>
> It's not in any of the links in his message but in
>
> https://jdebp.eu/about-the-site.html
>
> In a nutshell, Virgin Media shut http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
> down without warning.

That man is A: quite intelligent, and B: has the patience of Job, he 
fairly refrained from calling them the jerks they turned out to be.  
Thats an admirable trait, one I wish I had. And which at my age, with 7 
decades of dealing with jerks, I simply never learned to STFU

Thanks Andre.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 05 August 2016 22:46:23 Gene Heskett wrote:
> Or in the present case,
> harassing the OP.  Who seems not inclined to clarify what he alluded to
> when he announced both the move and a new version.

Which is a most unworthy occupation.  You have been told both answers.  
Jonathan has no need to clarify anything.

Lisi

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 13:25:43 Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2016-08-05 12:36 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Point taken. The pruning is an attempt to keep each individual
> > mailbox readable in a reasonable length of time by kmail. A
> > couple of my folders have no expiry, are over 2Gb in size. It
> > takes a good 45 seconds to sort and display the list when
> > entering those folders. I didn't want the debian list to
> > become that much of a time killer.
>
> A simple way to keep mail boxes to a manageable size is to split
> them by year. In extreme cases, by month. From my .procmailrc :
>
> MM=`date +%Y-%m`
>
> :0
>
> * ^X-Mailing-List:[   ]*linux-kernel@vger\.kernel\.org$
> linux-kernel-$MM
>
> If you use Kmail, you probably don't use Procmail but it takes
> more than mere logic to stop me from giving unsolicited advice.

Chuckle, but I do use fetchmail and procmail, it handles all the spam and 
virus scanning before it dumps it into /var/spool/mail. I have a bit of 
bash and inotifywait watching that directory, and telling kmail to go 
get the mail from there when there is new mail if its real mail.  So I 
am not sitting here watching paint dry while kmail is out on the net 
getting new mail.  That time delay with a frozen keyboard caused me to 
take the job of pulling the mail away from it.  And that gives me more 
time to concentrate on the real job, reading the mail. And replying to 
it if its about something I do know about. Or in the present case, 
harassing the OP.  Who seems not inclined to clarify what he alluded to 
when he announced both the move and a new version.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

[PRIVATE REPLY} Re: Problem with NON-STANDARD install

[Richard Owlett]

On 8/5/2016 3:03 PM, David Wright wrote:

[snip]
How about trying to do
http://forums.justlinux.com/showthread.php?147959-How-to-install-and-boot-145-operating-systems-in-a-PC
 [snip]


forums.justlinux.com has a display problem.
As suggested I went to FAQ.
I clicked on "Contact Us".
Their 'bot filter asked me for n'th letter of problem forum.
NO forum problem. *SITE* problem.

Re: Problem with NON-STANDARD install

[Richard Owlett]

On 8/5/2016 3:03 PM, David Wright wrote:

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 13:44:54 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

On 8/1/2016 10:37 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

*CAVEAT LECTOR*
I _KNOW_ I'm doing an *ATYPICAL* install.
I *REQUIRE* Grub to be its own partition.
The Debian 8.4 installer at least recognizes that some users
would desire Grub to be in its own partition.
[massive SNIP]


I've been thinking ;/
My original introduction started with a "solution" rather than a
"problem report".

I'm having problems writing a readable and comprehensible problem
description.


How about trying to do
http://forums.justlinux.com/showthread.php?147959-How-to-install-and-boot-145-operating-systems-in-a-PC
but using grub2 instead...or perhaps just a subset.



Richter 10^1000 *ROFL* event ;/
That man may be stranger than I.
I've only spent a few minutes browsing the site [and *SOME* 
referenced links].
The information may be dated, *BUT* it _WILL_ guide me to asking 
useful/relevant/??? questions.


 *THANK YOU* 

Re: Chromium jumps to any workspace it likes.......

[David Wright]

On Thu 04 Aug 2016 at 19:34:15 (+0100), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Thursday 04 August 2016 19:06:51 David Wright wrote:
> > Reviewing your posts, the first sympathetically commiserated with the OP,
> > the rest seemed to be arguing with those who knew something about fvwm
> > and were trying to comment on the problem and its possible amelioration.
> 
> David, that is unfair.  I argued one thing only.  That what you are saying 
> refers to you and FVWM and not to everybody.  
> 
> It does not apply to the software I use.  Why on earth are you so determined 
> to argue?  I know nothing about FVWM and have never claimed to do so.  You 
> told me that I was wrong in what I said, when I was not.  I argued against 
> that.  I did not claim that it referred to FVWM.  In the DE I use, which I 
> have used for 12 years through a name change, I use desktops and can move 
> things from one desktop to another in the desktop preview and pager, in the 
> panel, by drag and drop.  I can then go the relevant desktop and there it is. 
>  
> You can tell me that I am wrong all you like, it will not make me wrong.  Do 
> stop arguing for the sake of it.

Please point out where I told you that you were wrong.
(Off list if you think it'll bore people.)

A summary of my posts:

1) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00051.html
Request for clarification from the OP in case their terminology is
more similar to yours than to mine or that in man fvwm.

2) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00060.html
A description of a workaround for the OP's problem, with a caveat that
it will only work with one of my interpretations of workspace.

3) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00068.html
A clarification of the terms I have used in post (2) with xterm
commands that anyone can use to ascertain whether the workaround will
work if they are using fvwm and can't figure out which meaning of
workspace applies.

4) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00098.html
Comments to the OP on their specific interactions they have had
with fvwm, and a further detail on my workaround.

5) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00099.html
a. An apology for not addressing a wider interpretation of the problem
(using the Subject line only) but restricting my comments to the
window manager mentioned in the OP.
b. The reason why I posted (1), ie my wondering which meaning of
workspace was intended by the OP.
c. A retort to your unnecessary exhortation.
d. My take on your postings.

> IT IS NOT FVWM and I never said that it was.

I haven't discussed your symptoms or software in my postings.
All my comments/workarounds have been written to the list for the
benefit of the OP and people like them using fvwm and chromium.
Whether it's polite to or not (on a list), I just ignored the
detail in your postings and concentrated on getting the workaround,
with its caveat and the gloss, onto the list.

> I said that it applied to Chrome (and chromium, of course.  See the 
> subject line).  And that the facility meant that the problem is a minor 
> annoyance only.

That's exactly what I ignored.

Having observed no difference in the behaviour of chromium and,
say, firefox on my systems, then my discussing it specifically
would be pointless, so I didn't bother.

How frustrating is it for the OP? I have no idea. I just got on with
posting my workaround.

> I know nothing about FVWM and would not pretend that I do.

I assumed that most people don't, which is why, after post (1) didn't
elicit a response from the OP, I made sure I was clear about what
*I* was describing, with concrete examples for clarification. All
written for the OP and the list, not for you or at you. Your first
posting merely triggered my writing (2) earlier than I might have
otherwise.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Problem with NON-STANDARD install

[David Wright]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 13:44:54 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 8/1/2016 10:37 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >*CAVEAT LECTOR*
> >I _KNOW_ I'm doing an *ATYPICAL* install.
> >I *REQUIRE* Grub to be its own partition.
> >The Debian 8.4 installer at least recognizes that some users
> >would desire Grub to be in its own partition.
> >[massive SNIP]
> 
> I've been thinking ;/
> My original introduction started with a "solution" rather than a
> "problem report".
> 
> I'm having problems writing a readable and comprehensible problem
> description.

How about trying to do
http://forums.justlinux.com/showthread.php?147959-How-to-install-and-boot-145-operating-systems-in-a-PC
but using grub2 instead...or perhaps just a subset.

Cheers,
David.

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 05 August 2016 18:25:43 Andre Majorel wrote:
> If you use Kmail, you probably don't use Procmail but it takes
> more than mere logic to stop me from giving unsolicited advice.

I don't often laugh loudly out loud when reading the Debian List.  I believe 
the acronym is approximately ROFLMYO.  Thank you, André.

Lisi

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 05 August 2016 16:40:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> As for noticing the announcements, my expiry rules for this list have
> already nuked the last of those messages just 3 or 4 days ago.

That is hardly Jonathan's fault.  Do you accept only prolific posters?   

I am sure that there are those on the list who would breathe a sigh of relief, 
cheer and go out to the pub (or whatever you lot have instead ;-)  ) if you 
and I were to reduce our posts to the frequency of those of Jonathan, who is 
a long standing poster, and cheer even more loudly if either of us were ever 
to make as great a contribution.

Lisi

Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot

[Michael Biebl]

Am 05.08.2016 um 09:04 schrieb Jonathan de Boyne Pollard:
> Michael Biebl: > Strictly speaking, the tmpfiles.d mechanism is not tied
> to a particular init. It's just that no-one has provided an
> implementation for non-systemd.
> 
> Untrue. The OpenRC people have had a tmpfiles utility since 2012.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
Can you post some more details? Where can I find the sources for that?
Is it packaged for Debian?

Regards,
Michael

-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Setting info on received mail after changing home_mailbox in Postfix

[soko.tica]

Hello list!

I have changed the home_mailbox format from default mbox to Maildir,
according to the instructions at https://wiki.debian.org/Postfix#Maildir

After the change, when I login through ssh to the box I always get "No
mail." The same with command:
user@box:~$ mail
No mail for user

Although mail comes regularly to ~/Maildir/new

I have set the line
session optional pam_mail.so dir=~Maildir/ standard
in
/etc/pam.d/login
according to the instructions
http://linux-pam.org/Linux-PAM-html/sag-pam_mail.html/etc/pam.d/login

Please advise what I am doing wrong.

Info on system and postfix follows.

$dmesg | less
[0.00] Linux version 3.4.112-bananian (root@bananian-build) (gcc
version 4.9.2 (Debian 4.9.2-10) ) #6 SMP PREEMPT Fri May 13 18:21:01 UTC
2016
[0.00] CPU: ARMv7 Processor [410fc074] revision 4 (ARMv7),
cr=10c5387d
[0.00] CPU: PIPT / VIPT nonaliasing data cache, VIPT aliasing
instruction cache
[0.00] Machine: sun7i
...
root@bananapi /home/user # apt list --installed | grep 'postfix'

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface yet. Use with caution in
scripts.

postfix/stable,now 2.11.3-1 armhf [installed]

Regards

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 13:48:54 -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 05, 2016 at 03:49:28PM +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:04 PM Brian  wrote:
> > 
> > I didn't mention earlier, and I'm not sure if it is relevant, but the
> > computer connects via WiFi to my access point, which is also my network's
> > internet gateway -- with an LFS box between it and the cable modem as a
> > dedicated firewall. I don't trust the non-free firewall in the AP, although
> > I have left it on. The rest of my network is not to be subject to this 9pm
> > curfew. And I would ideally like connectivity between this machine and the
> > rest of my local network to remain even when the internet is denied to this
> > machine, so I can do remote maintenance when he's not using the machine,
> > for example.
> 
> 
> I have a new suggestion, based on this.
> 
> Do all the filtering on your LFS box.
> 
> Match your kid's machine by MAC address.
> 
> Write two tiny scripts:
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> iptables -D FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP
> 
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> iptables -I FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP
> 
> (substituting in the appropriate MAC address for the machine, of
> course)
> 
> and run the first one at 9 PM to disable internet access, and
> run the second one at 8 AM or whatever to re-enable it. Cron is
> your friend.

For this particular situation (LFS=Linux From Scratch?) this does appear
to be the easiest (less work) and most obvious solution.

Re: Problem with NON-STANDARD install

[Richard Owlett]

On 8/1/2016 10:37 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

*CAVEAT LECTOR*
I _KNOW_ I'm doing an *ATYPICAL* install.
I *REQUIRE* Grub to be its own partition.
The Debian 8.4 installer at least recognizes that some users
would desire Grub to be in its own partition.
[massive SNIP]


I've been thinking ;/
My original introduction started with a "solution" rather than a 
"problem report".


I'm having problems writing a readable and comprehensible problem 
description.


In the meantime here a links which cover some faces of the 
problem. Note that some links are dated, but show others have 
seen similar problems/environments.



http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/multiboot/multiboot.html
http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/install-doz-after.html
https://old-en.opensuse.org/Bugs/grub#How_does_a_PC_boot_.2F_How_can_I_set_up_a_working_GRUB.3F
http://web.archive.org/web/20150122211446/http://members.iinet.net.au/~herman546/p20/GRUB2%20Bash%20Commands.html#Dedicated_GRUB_Partition
http://web.archive.org/web/20100819160337/http://grub.enbug.org/grub.cfg
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Multiboot_USB_drive
http://www.stevesdebianstuff.org/lilo.htm
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-grub/2011-01/msg00017.html
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2";
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2013-02/msg00032.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/04/msg00194.html
http://dedoimedo.com/computers/grub-2.html
http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/partitioningindex.html

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 15:49:28 +, Mark Fletcher wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:04 PM Brian  wrote:
> 
> > Sticking with the idea of using a systemd service file, the script it
> > runs would check the time and alter the routing table when necessary.
> > Neither cron nor iptables need come into the picture.
> >
> Thanks Brian. My thinking was that although this machine won't be on all
> the time, it will be started and stopped at unpredictable times. I wanted
> to have a situation where if it is brought up during allowed hours, the
> internet works. If it is brought up during not-allowed hours, it doesn't,
> until 9am arrives, at which point it starts working. So if my son gets out
> of bed at 3am and fires up the computer, he gets nowhere (at least until he
> figures out how to hack into my own machine and run an ssh session with X
> forwarding... but if he figures that out without my help I'm almost
> inclined to reward him by turning a blind eye :-) )
> 
> Similarly, if he is surfing away on it at 9pm, well by then he is supposed
> to be at least in the bath if not in bed, so the computer's internet
> connection sets an example by going to sleep...
> 
> If he leaves it on, I want it to connect and disconnect automatically at
> the appropriate times, and if he doesn't, I want it to come up in the right
> state. If I leave a hole in this that can be exploited without strong
> technical skills, I'm confident he'll find it...

Without the root password or sudo he should be unable to influence the
routing. The machine will always come up with a route to the internet
because you are using DHCP. But that shouldn't last for more thn thirty
seconds if we can get systemd to do its stuff.

We'll forget about a fixed IP. DHCP gets you an address and a default
route when it boots. Check the latter with 'ip route'. You want a
default route to the internet between 9am and 9pm but not otherwise.
Consider this script

  #!/bin/bash
  while :
  do
  HOUR=$(date +%H)
  if ((9 <= $HOUR && $HOUR <= 21)); then
 echo "Help with the washingup, tidy your room, make yourself useful."
  else 
 echo "Have a bath. Go to bed."
  fi
  sleep 30
  done

The first echo line would be replaced with

  ip route add default via  dev 

You need this in the event the machine is left on overnight and the
second echo line

  ip route del default via  dev 

is in force.

The script would go in /user/local/bin and be run by a systemd service
file with its Exec directive. You should run the script first and check
that it does do what you want. Altering the "9" and the "21" will help.
You probably want a "one-shot" service file. You're ok with devising
that?

> I could give the box a fixed IP but I have always used DHCP on my local
> network and don't want to disturb my habits more than necessary for this.

It wasn't a important suggested change.

> Also this would get rid of the need for DHCP but wouldn't get rid of NTP
> calls, and then I'd get them vomiting all over the logs when they fail to
> connect. Not a big problem, certainly, but an elegant solution would avoid
> it.

Have the script stop and start the NTP service. Elegant enough?
 
> I didn't mention earlier, and I'm not sure if it is relevant, but the
> computer connects via WiFi to my access point, which is also my network's
> internet gateway -- with an LFS box between it and the cable modem as a
> dedicated firewall. I don't trust the non-free firewall in the AP, although

WiFi or cable shouldn't be a concern. Both set up routing in the same way.

> I have left it on. The rest of my network is not to be subject to this 9pm
> curfew. And I would ideally like connectivity between this machine and the
> rest of my local network to remain even when the internet is denied to this
> machine, so I can do remote maintenance when he's not using the machine,
> for example. If I monkey around with the default routing as you are
> suggesting, does that have any negative implications for connectivity to
> the rest of my local network?

It shouldn't do because you will only be adjusting the route to get off
your network. But that's where testing comes in.

Finally, I am afraid I did not understand the
> point you made about how cron can be avoided. If the machine's up when 9pm
> arrives, I want internet connectivity to die so I can prise him off the
> computer and get him to bed. In your idea, how can I make that happen
> without a cron job?

The script run by systemd takes care of what happens at a particular
time. A cron-only solution is possible but I think the systemd way seems
more flexible because the script can be adjusted.

You are after an all-or-nothing solution and iptables is intended for
more finely-grained routing issues. It would probably do the job but
there is more work involved and it's a bugger to debug if the rules are
not quite right.

Re: Mythtv has lost all its on screen text

[Ric Moore]

On 08/05/2016 10:20 AM, Alan Chandler wrote:

On 05/08/16 15:14, Ric Moore wrote:

On 08/04/2016 07:12 PM, Alan Chandler wrote:

I have mythtv installed from debian multimedia.  I am running testing

Once you introduce Debian Multimedia to your mix, you get to keep all
the broken pieces. "These packages are known to not integrate well
with other software packages in Debian and cause breakage regularly. "

I know its a risk, but how else do I get a working mythtv setup other
than compiling from scratch?

I just wondered if anyone here had noticed the same problem and found a
work around.
Problems from using unofficial sources is usually a banned topic. I 
tried Deb-Multimedia once, same thing I wanted a video editor, and my 
machine became screwed up for days. I do use several unofficial repos, 
and they have worked great, so far. But, I know I'm out on a limb and 
would not complain of breakage here. No one can duplicate your problem 
and there is a lot of bad press which I wouldn't discount. . Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Andre Majorel]

On 2016-08-05 11:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> So far, no links have included what I'd call a blow by blow, which 
> resulted in his projects being moved.

It's not in any of the links in his message but in

https://jdebp.eu/about-the-site.html

In a nutshell, Virgin Media shut http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
down without warning.

-- 
André Majorel 
Imagine what would happen if the Debian project disclosed the email
addresses of their users. Spambots would harvest them and Debian
users would be inundated with spam. Good thing they don't, eh ?

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Dan Ritter]

On Fri, Aug 05, 2016 at 03:49:28PM +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:04 PM Brian  wrote:
> 
> I didn't mention earlier, and I'm not sure if it is relevant, but the
> computer connects via WiFi to my access point, which is also my network's
> internet gateway -- with an LFS box between it and the cable modem as a
> dedicated firewall. I don't trust the non-free firewall in the AP, although
> I have left it on. The rest of my network is not to be subject to this 9pm
> curfew. And I would ideally like connectivity between this machine and the
> rest of my local network to remain even when the internet is denied to this
> machine, so I can do remote maintenance when he's not using the machine,
> for example.


I have a new suggestion, based on this.

Do all the filtering on your LFS box.

Match your kid's machine by MAC address.

Write two tiny scripts:

#!/bin/sh
iptables -D FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP


#!/bin/sh
iptables -I FORWARD -m mac --mac-source 58:63:1a:af:71:72 -j DROP

(substituting in the appropriate MAC address for the machine, of
course)

and run the first one at 9 PM to disable internet access, and
run the second one at 8 AM or whatever to re-enable it. Cron is
your friend.

-dsr-

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Andre Majorel]

On 2016-08-05 12:36 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Point taken. The pruning is an attempt to keep each individual
> mailbox readable in a reasonable length of time by kmail. A
> couple of my folders have no expiry, are over 2Gb in size. It
> takes a good 45 seconds to sort and display the list when
> entering those folders. I didn't want the debian list to
> become that much of a time killer.

A simple way to keep mail boxes to a manageable size is to split
them by year. In extreme cases, by month. From my .procmailrc :

MM=`date +%Y-%m`

:0
* ^X-Mailing-List:[ ]*linux-kernel@vger\.kernel\.org$
linux-kernel-$MM

If you use Kmail, you probably don't use Procmail but it takes
more than mere logic to stop me from giving unsolicited advice.

-- 
André Majorel 
Thousands of verified email addresses available from bugs.debian.org.

Re: debian version ID

[Seeker]

On 8/1/2016 1:53 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

Ben Finney composed on 2016-08-01 03:20 (UTC-0400):


Felix Miata wrote:



Will someone please explain (or point to, since it's not in release
notes), why:



1: /etc/os-release (in Jessie at least) does not include the point
release version as represented by /etc/debian_version



The proximate explanation is: Because the API for that file is
different. It describes the stable release for its whole lifetime, not
the updates made since that version of Debian was released.


Given the many possible options[1] for that file's content, one would 
think there would be a way to get the extra detail in, maybe 
VERSION_ID=8 and VERSION="8.5 (Jessie)", or move "Jessie" to 
VERSION_CODENAME and put 8.5 as VERSION.




Think of it like this.

The last "version" of Debian released is 8. The x.4, x.5, etc.. have no 
meaning on the running system, either you have
kept up with the updates and your system is secure, or you have not kept 
up with the updates and your system is

potentially vulnerable.

The installation media is 8.5 because it includes packages that have 
been updated since the initial release and you need

a way to differentiate earlier and later versions of the installation media.

There may be more to x.x the Debian developer side of things, but for us 
end users that all we really need

to know.

It tells you right in the announcement

https://www.debian.org/News/2016/20160604

"*Please note that this update does not constitute a new version of 
Debian 8 *but only updates some of the packages included.
*There is no need to throw away old**"jessie" CDs or DVDs but only to 
update via an up-to-date Debian mirror after an

installation*, to cause any out of date packages to be updated."

Later, Seeker


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 11:59:32 Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 05, 2016 at 11:40:46AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > As for noticing the announcements, my expiry rules for this list
> > have already nuked the last of those messages just 3 or 4 days ago. 
> > If I had future use for something it gets marked and excluded from
> > those rules. I'll set that up for a couple more months.
>
> When it comes to making assertions about who has or has not posted to
> the list, perhaps consider using the public archives, which are not
> subject to your personal pruning policy.

Point taken. The pruning is an attempt to keep each individual mailbox 
readable in a reasonable length of time by kmail. A couple of my folders 
have no expiry, are over 2Gb in size. It takes a good 45 seconds to sort 
and display the list when entering those folders. I didn't want the 
debian list to become that much of a time killer.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Fri, Aug 05, 2016 at 11:40:46AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> As for noticing the announcements, my expiry rules for this list have 
> already nuked the last of those messages just 3 or 4 days ago.  If I had 
> future use for something it gets marked and excluded from those rules. 
> I'll set that up for a couple more months.

When it comes to making assertions about who has or has not posted to
the list, perhaps consider using the public archives, which are not subject
to your personal pruning policy.


-- 
Jonathan Dowland
Please don't CC me, I'm subscribed to the list.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 09:41:00 David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 04 Aug 2016 at 21:13:19 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 04 August 2016 19:34:44 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> > > The whole sorry tale of why is on the new WWW site.  The upshot of
> > > it is that nosh and redo are in a new place.
> >
> > No, it does not offer any explanation of why you come in here with a
> > megaphone announcing these tools.  This list has not been privy to
> > any previous exchanges of yours, at least since June 6th no one
> > named Pollard has posted.
>
> Sigh; what can one say? I'm surprised you haven't noticed that the
> announcements of nosh have been a regular feature here: August x 2,
> September, October, November, December, January, February, May.
> I haven't seen the sorry tale, but it might explain the quiet period.
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/08/msg00803.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/08/msg00951.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg0.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/10/msg00114.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/11/msg00020.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/12/msg00452.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/01/msg00572.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/02/msg0.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/05/msg00280.html

So far, no links have included what I'd call a blow by blow, which 
resulted in his projects being moved.

As for noticing the announcements, my expiry rules for this list have 
already nuked the last of those messages just 3 or 4 days ago.  If I had 
future use for something it gets marked and excluded from those rules. 
I'll set that up for a couple more months.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[David Wright]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 15:03:47 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 12:00:28 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> 
> > On Friday 05 August 2016 11:40:28 Brian wrote:
> > >
> > > How essential is this? cron could
> > >
> > >   ip route add default via 
> > >
> > > at specific times between 9pm and 9am and then remove the default route.
> > > If the machine isn't up all the time it seems unnecessary to me.
> > 
> > Perhaps he wants to stop his children/grandchildren/house guests surfing 
> > the 
> > web at 3:00 am. 
> 
> Possibly.
> 
> Let us look at this from a different angle. If the machine is given a
> fixed address it negates the need for dhcp checking, If, additionally,
> no gateway to the internet is specified there would be no access to the
> internet at any time.
> 
> For an always-on machine cron jobs could switch routing at 9am and 9pm.
> If the machine was rebooted after 9pm there would be no internet. A
> reboot after 9am presents a problem. This could be solved by having cron
> check every five minutes between 9am and 9pm and providing a gateway to
> the internet.

No need to wait for five minutes; cron has a @reboot parameter, eg,

@reboot /sbin/kbdrate -r 8 -d 500 -s

slows down the keyboard repeat key so that Cindy-Sue can login more easily.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Mark Fletcher]

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:04 PM Brian  wrote:

> On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 12:00:28 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>
> > On Friday 05 August 2016 11:40:28 Brian wrote:
>
> Let us look at this from a different angle. If the machine is given a
> fixed address it negates the need for dhcp checking, If, additionally,
> no gateway to the internet is specified there would be no access to the
> internet at any time.
>
> For an always-on machine cron jobs could switch routing at 9am and 9pm.
> If the machine was rebooted after 9pm there would be no internet. A
> reboot after 9am presents a problem. This could be solved by having cron
> check every five minutes between 9am and 9pm and providing a gateway to
> the internet.
>
> Sticking with the idea of using a systemd service file, the script it
> runs would check the time and alter the routing table when necessary.
> Neither cron nor iptables need come into the picture.
>
>
Thanks Brian. My thinking was that although this machine won't be on all
the time, it will be started and stopped at unpredictable times. I wanted
to have a situation where if it is brought up during allowed hours, the
internet works. If it is brought up during not-allowed hours, it doesn't,
until 9am arrives, at which point it starts working. So if my son gets out
of bed at 3am and fires up the computer, he gets nowhere (at least until he
figures out how to hack into my own machine and run an ssh session with X
forwarding... but if he figures that out without my help I'm almost
inclined to reward him by turning a blind eye :-) )

Similarly, if he is surfing away on it at 9pm, well by then he is supposed
to be at least in the bath if not in bed, so the computer's internet
connection sets an example by going to sleep...

If he leaves it on, I want it to connect and disconnect automatically at
the appropriate times, and if he doesn't, I want it to come up in the right
state. If I leave a hole in this that can be exploited without strong
technical skills, I'm confident he'll find it...

I could give the box a fixed IP but I have always used DHCP on my local
network and don't want to disturb my habits more than necessary for this.
Also this would get rid of the need for DHCP but wouldn't get rid of NTP
calls, and then I'd get them vomiting all over the logs when they fail to
connect. Not a big problem, certainly, but an elegant solution would avoid
it.

I didn't mention earlier, and I'm not sure if it is relevant, but the
computer connects via WiFi to my access point, which is also my network's
internet gateway -- with an LFS box between it and the cable modem as a
dedicated firewall. I don't trust the non-free firewall in the AP, although
I have left it on. The rest of my network is not to be subject to this 9pm
curfew. And I would ideally like connectivity between this machine and the
rest of my local network to remain even when the internet is denied to this
machine, so I can do remote maintenance when he's not using the machine,
for example. If I monkey around with the default routing as you are
suggesting, does that have any negative implications for connectivity to
the rest of my local network? Finally, I am afraid I did not understand the
point you made about how cron can be avoided. If the machine's up when 9pm
arrives, I want internet connectivity to die so I can prise him off the
computer and get him to bed. In your idea, how can I make that happen
without a cron job?

Thanks

Mark

Re: Mythtv has lost all its on screen text

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 10:20:16 Alan Chandler wrote:

> On 05/08/16 15:14, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On 08/04/2016 07:12 PM, Alan Chandler wrote:
> >> I have mythtv installed from debian multimedia.  I am running
> >> testing
> >
> > Once you introduce Debian Multimedia to your mix, you get to keep
> > all the broken pieces. "These packages are known to not integrate
> > well with other software packages in Debian and cause breakage
> > regularly. "
>
> I know its a risk, but how else do I get a working mythtv setup other
> than compiling from scratch?
>
> I just wondered if anyone here had noticed the same problem and found
> a work around.

Install build-essential and compile from source?  I did that once, years 
ago, took about a week to pull in all its dependencies, and found I 
didn't have enough iron to run it, it is resource hungry.  But it didn't 
do funny things either like the packaged versions did and that you are 
seeing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Mark Fletcher]

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 4:26 PM Lars Noodén  wrote:

>
> iptables has some match extensions that will work with UTC time,
> specifically the extensions --timestart and --timestop  Using those you
> should be able to make rules that operate all the time but block traffic
> during the specified hours.  The only issues there are the UTC itself
> and, maybe, problems with standard time versus daylight savings time
> locally.
>
> It can also be modified to vary for certain days of the week using
> --weekdays
>
> See the manual page for iptables-extensions(8) for the details on those.
>
> Regards,
> Lars
>
>
Thanks for this suggestion Lars. I will look into iptables-extensions.

Mark

Re: (OT) Disable Secure Boot, et al

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:00:04 +0200 didier gaumet
 wrote:

> Le 05/08/2016 à 02:25, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> > Hi! All,
> > 
> > Anyway to enter UEFI Firmware Setup on contemporary UEFI W8/10
> > notebooks without having to go through Windows?  That is, is there
> > a keyboard combo, secret button or incantation whether or not a
> > hard drive/OS is installed. As far as my research goes, there's not.
> 
> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh825112.aspx

Thanks, but it seems that with W10 that procedure, at least on some
notebooks is no longer available, and you must boot fully into W10 to
get the UEFI Firmware Settings menu.  Progress.

> The dual-boot HP little notebook I am using right now to answer your
> question was factory installed with Windows 8, has migrated to Windows
> 10 and still enters at boot in UEFI management mode by pressing a Fn
> key (probably F9, I don't remember)

I'm finding from reading user manuals that the options and procedures
vary manufacturer to manufacturer  with more and more really locking
down the system to Windows 10 making it difficult, if not impossible,
to install Linux.  Guess I'll have to be very particular which
manufacturer/notebook I purchase.

> > I'm looking to buy a new notebook to put a custom install of Linux
> > on with as few problems as possible.  Which distro remains to be
> > chosen, but it definitely WON'T be Ubuntu (I've always hated it) or
> > SUSE or Fedora which I abandoned because of its 6 month release
> > cycles and 13 month support.
> 
> If your only gripe with Fedora is the 6 months release circle, you
> could be interested in CentOS which nowadays is essentially a Red Hat
> trademark and their free-of-charge-with-no-support version of RHEL.
> And an advantage of RHEL/CentOS from version 7 on, that could be
> valuable to you, is its ability to boot in Secure Mode.

Last time I checked CentOS (last year) didn't support Secure Boot
like RHEL.  Maybe, that's changed.  Although, I consider Cent & RHEL
more suited for servers than general use computing.  However, I'll
revisit CentOS..

Thanks for you input.

B

Re: Mythtv has lost all its on screen text

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:12:21 +0100
Alan Chandler  wrote:

Hello Alan,

>I have mythtv installed from debian multimedia.  I am running testing

You'd be better off asking on the Debian MultiMedia list.  If you wish
to subscribe, here's the address.

dmo-discussion-requ...@deb-multimedia.org?subject=subscribe

Traffic is low (less than 5 messages a week on average)

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
He signed up for just three years, it seemed a small amount
Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers


pgpWcHRu3Ec5R.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 August 2016 08:26:08 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Aug 2016, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 04 August 2016 19:34:44 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> > > The whole sorry tale of why is on the new WWW site.  The upshot of
> > > it is that nosh and redo are in a new place.
> >
> > No, it does not offer any explanation of why you come in here with a
> > megaphone announcing these tools.  This list has not been privy to
> > any
>
> Gene, there is no need to be this aggressive.
>
> For the record, Pollard and "nosh" are known to debian-devel.
>
> > A better explanation does seem to be a reasonable request.
>
> Indeed it is a reasonable request, and it would still be one even if
> Pollard was known to debian-user, or if his post had been sent to
> debian-devel.
>
>
> "nosh" is an init-system, one that might end up being a good
> replacement for sysvinit for Debian/kFreeBSD in the future.  Maybe.
>
> I am not well versed on "redo".  It looks like a set of tools that
> occupies the same locus as "Make" (to build targets from source files,
> processing dependency-aware graphs to both order the build, and
> minimize work when not evertything changed).

That was my impression after visiting all the links Mr. Pollard posted.  
But knowing the animosity that systemd has generated amongst the users 
when it was forced down their throats, possibly a bit prematurely, I 
came to the conclusion that the rest of the developers had exhibited 
less than zero interest in yet another replacement for init.

And with redo targeted at the make users, even I might have some interest 
in that. But if it changes the build environment in incompatible ways, 
I'd have less interest.

ATM I bleed enough, although I am glad to do it, running the development 
version of LinuxCNC on my 3 cnc machines, with a 4th one under 
construction. But thats slow when, in order to finish making a part for 
this Sheldon lathe which  although the bed seems in good shape, has 
obviously been rode hard & put away wet over the last 64 years. So I am 
replacing clapped out, made of pure unobtainium screws and nuts, with 
modern ball screws which will be moved by LinuxCNC of coarse, but I have 
to make every piece I need from fresh steel or brass since I've searched 
diligently for some on this unobtainium without success. ;-)

And that has demanded gib upgrades to my existing small lathe so it can 
cut finer threads more precisely.  And I have to write the G33 wrapper 
software to do that. The final software is intended to be universally 
shared, when its working as it will be an addition to LinuxCNC's 
capabilities.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Mythtv has lost all its on screen text

[Alan Chandler]

On 05/08/16 15:14, Ric Moore wrote:

On 08/04/2016 07:12 PM, Alan Chandler wrote:

I have mythtv installed from debian multimedia.  I am running testing
Once you introduce Debian Multimedia to your mix, you get to keep all 
the broken pieces. "These packages are known to not integrate well 
with other software packages in Debian and cause breakage regularly. "
I know its a risk, but how else do I get a working mythtv setup other 
than compiling from scratch?


I just wondered if anyone here had noticed the same problem and found a 
work around.






--
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Mark Fletcher]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 at 20:00, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> On Friday 05 August 2016 11:40:28 Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 00:02:40 +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > > On a stretch box I have, I want to allow access to the Internet between
> > > the hours of 9am and 9pm and block it between 9pm and 9am. Ideally
> allow
> > > local network access throughout but block Internet access between 9pm
> and
> > > 9am, but I can accept total network blockage in the off times if
> > > necessary.
> >
> > Your ideal is achievable.
> >
> >   ip route del default via 
> >
> > Plus a cron job.
> >
> > > The machine is used as a desktop, so it is not up all the time. It
> might
> > > be brought up before 9am, in which case it should come up blocked and
> > > unblock at 9am, or it may be brought up after 9am, in which case it
> > > should come up unblocked and block if it is still up at 9pm. Time
> > > precision isn't important.
> >
> > If it came up unblocked before 9am cron could see to it that blocking
> > happens.
> >
> > > An ideal solution would allow dhcp updates, ntp etc to continue but
> block
> > > any normal user access eg web browsing etc.
> >
> > How essential is this? cron could
> >
> >   ip route add default via 
> >
> > at specific times between 9pm and 9am and then remove the default route.
> > If the machine isn't up all the time it seems unnecessary to me.
>
> Perhaps he wants to stop his children/grandchildren/house guests surfing
> the
> web at 3:00 am.
>
> Lisi
>
> Spot on, Lisi! I recently set up a stretch box for my 12-year-old who's
interested in getting into Android programming, and he quickly developed
the ugly habit of getting up in the middle of the night to watch YouTube
videos of other people playing Wii games... Currently he's on his summer
holiday so it isn't doing much harm, but in a few weeks he'll be back to
school and as a responsible parent I can't let this continue. Simply asking
him to stop doesn't have the desired effect, naturally. My wife is about an
inch away from banning the computer altogether, and I'm trying to find an
acceptable compromise to prevent that...

Mark

Re: Mythtv has lost all its on screen text

[Ric Moore]

On 08/04/2016 07:12 PM, Alan Chandler wrote:

I have mythtv installed from debian multimedia.  I am running testing
Once you introduce Debian Multimedia to your mix, you get to keep all 
the broken pieces. "These packages are known to not integrate well with 
other software packages in Debian and cause breakage regularly. "

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia/FAQ
"Please do also consider to entirely remove unofficial third-party 
repositories from your /etc/apt/sources.list file. The few more features 
added to the packages provided there do often not compensate for the 
breakage they may cause. "


You're on your own with this. Maybe consider building from source?? Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 12:00:28 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Friday 05 August 2016 11:40:28 Brian wrote:
> >
> > How essential is this? cron could
> >
> >   ip route add default via 
> >
> > at specific times between 9pm and 9am and then remove the default route.
> > If the machine isn't up all the time it seems unnecessary to me.
> 
> Perhaps he wants to stop his children/grandchildren/house guests surfing the 
> web at 3:00 am. 

Possibly.

Let us look at this from a different angle. If the machine is given a
fixed address it negates the need for dhcp checking, If, additionally,
no gateway to the internet is specified there would be no access to the
internet at any time.

For an always-on machine cron jobs could switch routing at 9am and 9pm.
If the machine was rebooted after 9pm there would be no internet. A
reboot after 9am presents a problem. This could be solved by having cron
check every five minutes between 9am and 9pm and providing a gateway to
the internet.

Sticking with the idea of using a systemd service file, the script it
runs would check the time and alter the routing table when necessary.
Neither cron nor iptables need come into the picture.

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[David Wright]

On Thu 04 Aug 2016 at 21:13:19 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 04 August 2016 19:34:44 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> 
> > The whole sorry tale of why is on the new WWW site.  The upshot of it
> > is that nosh and redo are in a new place.
> >
> No, it does not offer any explanation of why you come in here with a 
> megaphone announcing these tools.  This list has not been privy to any 
> previous exchanges of yours, at least since June 6th no one named 
> Pollard has posted.

Sigh; what can one say? I'm surprised you haven't noticed that the
announcements of nosh have been a regular feature here: August x 2,
September, October, November, December, January, February, May.
I haven't seen the sorry tale, but it might explain the quiet period.

Cheers,
David.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/08/msg00803.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/08/msg00951.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg0.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/10/msg00114.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/11/msg00020.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/12/msg00452.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/01/msg00572.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/02/msg0.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/05/msg00280.html

Re: New Distro

[deloptes]

Satya Prakash Prasad wrote:

> I am totally confused on steps to achieve creating a new Debian Distro -
> my requirement is that we need to create a new OS image where we just have
> packages that are required.
> 
> Now is there a way where minimum packages details data is available - how
> do we know what extra needs to be added - where and how can we find the
> details.
> 
> Also how do we find dependent or can be required packages details. Say for
> example Networking suites - I only know TCP/IP and pretty sure that only
> including TCP package will just not be enough. Where can we know what
> others to be included bot for our application and for debugging /
> analyzing data?
> 
> Please assist me in my venture.
> 
> Regards,
> Prakash

Presume you have installed what you want to have on the image. Last half of
your questions is answered. Just do dpkg -l and you have the list. Even
better use dpkg --get-selections 

The first question is also misleading. When you have the installation, the
way it should be, you just make a bootable iso out of it.

"An Easier Alternative

One possible "alternative" to this procedure is to use Simple-CDD. If it
does everything you need for your custom CD, then there is no reason
(except curiosity) to go through the rest of this article"


https://wiki.debian.org/DebianCustomCD

spent just  2 minutes in google and this is only the first hit.
please India spent more time reading. It is for free :)

regards

New Distro

[Satya Prakash Prasad]

I am totally confused on steps to achieve creating a new Debian Distro - my
requirement is that we need to create a new OS image where we just have
packages that are required.

Now is there a way where minimum packages details data is available - how
do we know what extra needs to be added - where and how can we find the
details.

Also how do we find dependent or can be required packages details. Say for
example Networking suites - I only know TCP/IP and pretty sure that only
including TCP package will just not be enough. Where can we know what
others to be included bot for our application and for debugging / analyzing
data?

Please assist me in my venture.

Regards,
Prakash

Re: nosh and redo have moved

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 04 August 2016 19:34:44 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> > The whole sorry tale of why is on the new WWW site.  The upshot of it
> > is that nosh and redo are in a new place.
> >
> No, it does not offer any explanation of why you come in here with a 
> megaphone announcing these tools.  This list has not been privy to any 

Gene, there is no need to be this aggressive.

For the record, Pollard and "nosh" are known to debian-devel.

> A better explanation does seem to be a reasonable request.

Indeed it is a reasonable request, and it would still be one even if
Pollard was known to debian-user, or if his post had been sent to
debian-devel.


"nosh" is an init-system, one that might end up being a good replacement
for sysvinit for Debian/kFreeBSD in the future.  Maybe.

I am not well versed on "redo".  It looks like a set of tools that
occupies the same locus as "Make" (to build targets from source files,
processing dependency-aware graphs to both order the build, and minimize
work when not evertything changed).

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 05 August 2016 11:40:28 Brian wrote:
> On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 00:02:40 +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > On a stretch box I have, I want to allow access to the Internet between
> > the hours of 9am and 9pm and block it between 9pm and 9am. Ideally allow
> > local network access throughout but block Internet access between 9pm and
> > 9am, but I can accept total network blockage in the off times if
> > necessary.
>
> Your ideal is achievable.
>
>   ip route del default via 
>
> Plus a cron job.
>
> > The machine is used as a desktop, so it is not up all the time. It might
> > be brought up before 9am, in which case it should come up blocked and
> > unblock at 9am, or it may be brought up after 9am, in which case it
> > should come up unblocked and block if it is still up at 9pm. Time
> > precision isn't important.
>
> If it came up unblocked before 9am cron could see to it that blocking
> happens.
>
> > An ideal solution would allow dhcp updates, ntp etc to continue but block
> > any normal user access eg web browsing etc.
>
> How essential is this? cron could
>
>   ip route add default via 
>
> at specific times between 9pm and 9am and then remove the default route.
> If the machine isn't up all the time it seems unnecessary to me.

Perhaps he wants to stop his children/grandchildren/house guests surfing the 
web at 3:00 am.  

Lisi

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Aug 2016 at 00:02:40 +, Mark Fletcher wrote:

> On a stretch box I have, I want to allow access to the Internet between the
> hours of 9am and 9pm and block it between 9pm and 9am. Ideally allow local
> network access throughout but block Internet access between 9pm and 9am,
> but I can accept total network blockage in the off times if necessary.

Your ideal is achievable.

  ip route del default via 

Plus a cron job.

> The machine is used as a desktop, so it is not up all the time. It might be
> brought up before 9am, in which case it should come up blocked and unblock
> at 9am, or it may be brought up after 9am, in which case it should come up
> unblocked and block if it is still up at 9pm. Time precision isn't
> important.

If it came up unblocked before 9am cron could see to it that blocking
happens.

> An ideal solution would allow dhcp updates, ntp etc to continue but block
> any normal user access eg web browsing etc.

How essential is this? cron could

  ip route add default via 

at specific times between 9pm and 9am and then remove the default route.
If the machine isn't up all the time it seems unnecessary to me.

Re: Limiting internet access by time

[Lars Noodén]

On 08/05/2016 03:02 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> On a stretch box I have, I want to allow access to the Internet between the
> hours of 9am and 9pm and block it between 9pm and 9am. Ideally allow local
> network access throughout but block Internet access between 9pm and 9am,
> but I can accept total network blockage in the off times if necessary.
[snip]

iptables has some match extensions that will work with UTC time,
specifically the extensions --timestart and --timestop  Using those you
should be able to make rules that operate all the time but block traffic
during the specified hours.  The only issues there are the UTC itself
and, maybe, problems with standard time versus daylight savings time
locally.

It can also be modified to vary for certain days of the week using
--weekdays

See the manual page for iptables-extensions(8) for the details on those.

Regards,
Lars

How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Michael Biebl:

There are 3 kind of "timestamps":
 Access - the last time the file was read
 Modify - the last time the file was modified (content has been modified)
 Change - the last time meta data of the file was changed (e.g. permissions)


Not on all flavours of Debian.  Debian FreeBSD has 4.

* http://superuser.com/a/703927/38062

How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Michael Biebl: > Strictly speaking, the tmpfiles.d mechanism is not tied 
to a particular init. It's just that no-one has provided an 
implementation for non-systemd.


Untrue. The OpenRC people have had a tmpfiles utility since 2012.