Re: Exim4 problem?

[Charlie]

On 14/04/2017, songbird  wrote:
> Charlie wrote:
>> Received this on attempted upgrade:
>>
>> systemctl status exim4.service
>> ● exim4.service - LSB: exim Mail Transport Agent
>>Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/exim4; generated; vendor preset: enabled)
>>Active: failed (Result: resources) since Fri 2017-04-14 10:24:05
>> AEST; 4min 44s ago
>>  Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)
>>   Process: 9436 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/exim4 start (code=exited,
>> status=0/SUCCESS)
>>
>> Assume nothing I can do? Something that needs to be done higher up the
>> scale?
>>
>> Can't uninstall or purge exim4 either.
>
>   hmm...
>
>   i'm assuming this is on testing/stretch version?
>
>
>   is there something still running?  as it looks
> like to me that it tried to restart when perhaps
> another instance was running or something like
> that...
>
>   why would you need to uninstall or purge?  did
> you interrupt the upgrade?  are your apt/dpkg
> files inconsistent or showing dependency problems?
>
>   what does systemctl status exim4 say
> after you do a systemctl stop exim4
>
>   ?
>
>   and then a start?
>
>   does it restart?
>
>   check /var/log/apt/term.log
>   and /var/log/dpkg.log
>
>   or does something show up in the systemd
> journal from that timeframe?
>
>   see if there are any messages in those that may
> give an idea of what is going on.
>
>   i had exim4 upgrade go through today too.
> because there were so many processes still
> out of date according to checkrestart i
> rebooted before doing anything else.
>
>   i didn't see any errors in the upgrade or
> in the reboot and my exim4 has been chugging
> along all day.
>
>
>   songbird

Thanks Songbird,

Debian testing is correct.

Posted the top part of what systemctl status exim4 in the first email.

Hadn't done systemctl stop exim4

After systemctl stop exim4 reads like this:

systemctl status exim4
● exim4.service - LSB: exim Mail Transport Agent
   Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/exim4; generated; vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: failed (Result: resources) since Fri 2017-04-14 16:22:17
AEST; 1min 41s ago
 Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)
  Process: 1489 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/exim4 start (code=exited,
status=0/SUCCESS)

Apr 14 16:22:13 taogypsy systemd[1]: Starting LSB: exim Mail Transport Agent...
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy exim4[1489]: Starting MTA: exim4.
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy exim4[1489]: ALERT: exim paniclog
/var/log/exim4/paniclog has non-zero size, mail system possibly broken
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: PID file
/run/exim4/exim.pid not readable (yet?) after start: No such file or
directory
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: Daemon never wrote
its PID file. Failing.
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: Failed to start LSB: exim Mail
Transport Agent.
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: Unit entered failed state.
Apr 14 16:22:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: Failed with result
'resources'.

/var/log/exim4/paniclog says:

2017-04-14 10:13:04 IPv6 socket creation failed: Address family not
supported by protocol

ipv6 has been disabled for the 6 years or so I have had this regularly
upgraded Debian system installed.
/etc/default/grub
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="ipv6.disable=1"

The reason: I have a router that doesn't do ipv6. Also I was told that
satellite, which I am locked into, does not do ipv6 I have never
required it and have never changed it.

Then did: systemctl start exim4

 systemctl start exim4

Job for exim4.service failed because of unavailable resources or
another system error.
See "systemctl status exim4.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.

journalctl -xe

Apr 14 16:40:15 taogypsy systemd[1]: Starting LSB: exim Mail Transport Agent...
-- Subject: Unit exim4.service has begun start-up
-- Defined-By: systemd
-- Support: https://www.debian.org/support
-- 
-- Unit exim4.service has begun starting up.
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy exim4[2209]: Starting MTA: exim4.
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy exim4[2209]: ALERT: exim paniclog
/var/log/exim4/paniclog has non-zero size, mail system possibly broken
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: PID file
/run/exim4/exim.pid not readable (yet?) after start: No such file or
directory
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: Daemon never wrote
its PID file. Failing.
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: Failed to start LSB: exim Mail
Transport Agent.
-- Subject: Unit exim4.service has failed
-- Defined-By: systemd
-- Support: https://www.debian.org/support
-- 
-- Unit exim4.service has failed.
-- 
-- The result is failed.
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: Unit entered failed state.
Apr 14 16:40:17 taogypsy systemd[1]: exim4.service: Failed with result
'resources'.
Apr 14 16:40:29 taogypsy kernel: iptables denied: IN=eth0 OUT=
MAC=01:00:5e:00:00:01:08:86:3b:89:13:c6:08:00 SRC=192.168.2.1
DST=224.0.0.1 LEN=32 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=1
Apr 14 16:40:32 taogypsy kernel: iptables denied: IN=eth0 OUT=
MAC=01:00:5e:0

Re: Exim4 problem?

[songbird]

Charlie wrote:
> Received this on attempted upgrade:
>
> systemctl status exim4.service
> ● exim4.service - LSB: exim Mail Transport Agent
>Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/exim4; generated; vendor preset: enabled)
>Active: failed (Result: resources) since Fri 2017-04-14 10:24:05
> AEST; 4min 44s ago
>  Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)
>   Process: 9436 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/exim4 start (code=exited,
> status=0/SUCCESS)
>
> Assume nothing I can do? Something that needs to be done higher up the scale?
>
> Can't uninstall or purge exim4 either.

  hmm...

  i'm assuming this is on testing/stretch version?


  is there something still running?  as it looks
like to me that it tried to restart when perhaps
another instance was running or something like
that...

  why would you need to uninstall or purge?  did
you interrupt the upgrade?  are your apt/dpkg
files inconsistent or showing dependency problems?

  what does systemctl status exim4 say
after you do a systemctl stop exim4

  ?

  and then a start?

  does it restart?

  check /var/log/apt/term.log
  and /var/log/dpkg.log

  or does something show up in the systemd 
journal from that timeframe?

  see if there are any messages in those that may
give an idea of what is going on.

  i had exim4 upgrade go through today too.
because there were so many processes still
out of date according to checkrestart i
rebooted before doing anything else.

  i didn't see any errors in the upgrade or
in the reboot and my exim4 has been chugging
along all day.


  songbird

Exim4 problem?

[Charlie]

Received this on attempted upgrade:

systemctl status exim4.service
● exim4.service - LSB: exim Mail Transport Agent
   Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/exim4; generated; vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: failed (Result: resources) since Fri 2017-04-14 10:24:05
AEST; 4min 44s ago
 Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)
  Process: 9436 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/exim4 start (code=exited,
status=0/SUCCESS)

Assume nothing I can do? Something that needs to be done higher up the scale?

Can't uninstall or purge exim4 either.

Be well,
Charlie

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Joel Rees]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Nicolas George  wrote:
> Le quartidi 24 germinal, an CCXXV, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard a écrit :
>> Nicolas George:
>> > The process with PID one is the only immortal process on the system, and
>> > adopts all orphan processes.
>
>> Wrong.  Indeed, it was the systemd people who drove the making it wrong.
>
> I have no idea what that sentence means.
>
>> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/177361/5132
>
> Summary: Linux has a new system call to allow process to register as
> adopters for orphan processes.

Ick. I hope they don't register directly with pid1.

> Ok, Linux has a new mutant power that I did not know about, and half my
> sentence was wrong.
>
> Yet, PID 1 is still the only immortal process, unless you have another
> new mutant power to produce, and that property is needed to have a
> reliable monitoring system. Otherwise, the monitoring process could be
> killed, and nobody would notice.

Or you could have pid1 monitor only the monitoring process, to keep pid1 simple.

> So I stand by my claim: monitoring systems must be anchored at PID 1,
> and that makes monitoring part of init's job.

Conflicting requirements generally indicates a refactoring is necessary.

Of course, it's possible to refactor things incorrectly.

> (Immortal, in this context, does not mean that it cannot die: of course,
> it can die, but if it does, the kernel panics and the hardware watchdog
> reboots it. And of course, it means it cannot be killed by things like
> the OOM killer.)

pid1 seems to be doing a lot of other things in systemd. Is it
cooperatively multitasking with itself yet? Or have they borrowed
threads to define a new kind of process concept, so that pid1 can
multitask with itself preemptively?

I should go look at the source to see, I suppose, if I could only find
the time. I assume they will eventually recognize that pid1 is doing
too much and start pushing some of the conceptual changes outside
pid1.

I, of course, being superhuman, if I could find someone to fund my
efforts, could solve all these problems without mistake. ;->

Yeah.

Still it can be painful to watch them make the mistakes they are
making. I would want them to be trying different solutions. But if I
back-seat drive over in the Fedora tech lists, it will be distracting
to them, so I back-seat drive over here.

And try not to get into too much of a panic, since that doesn't seem to help.

(If I could find someone to fund my efforts, I would sure like to try
to develop an alternative. Sometimes life is not fair. :-/ )

-- 
Joel Rees

I'm imagining I'm a novelist:
http://joel-rees-economics.blogspot.com/2017/01/soc500-00-00-toc.html
More of my delusions:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/p/novels-i-am-writing.html

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Brian]

On Thu 13 Apr 2017 at 20:05:22 +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

> David is right : you don't really boot from the SD card.

The OP never claimed he was booting from the SD card. He particularly
said he did not install GRUB to the card.

> GRUB is on the HDD. The kernel is on the HDD. Only the root filesystem is on
> the SD card.

Yes. That's what the linux line says too.

-- 
Brian.

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Nicolas George]

Le quartidi 24 germinal, an CCXXV, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard a écrit :
> Nicolas George:
> > The process with PID one is the only immortal process on the system, and
> > adopts all orphan processes.

> Wrong.  Indeed, it was the systemd people who drove the making it wrong.

I have no idea what that sentence means.

> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/177361/5132

Summary: Linux has a new system call to allow process to register as
adopters for orphan processes.

Ok, Linux has a new mutant power that I did not know about, and half my
sentence was wrong.

Yet, PID 1 is still the only immortal process, unless you have another
new mutant power to produce, and that property is needed to have a
reliable monitoring system. Otherwise, the monitoring process could be
killed, and nobody would notice.

So I stand by my claim: monitoring systems must be anchored at PID 1,
and that makes monitoring part of init's job.

(Immortal, in this context, does not mean that it cannot die: of course,
it can die, but if it does, the kernel panics and the hardware watchdog
reboots it. And of course, it means it cannot be killed by things like
the OOM killer.)

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...)

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Greg Wooledge:

> 
> Suppose you want to start DJB's daemontools from a locally created systemd
> unit/service. Here's a file that will do that:
> 

... albeit poorly.  If one wants to run daemontools under systemd, svscanboot is
not the way; svscanboot is a thing of the past
http://jdebp.eu./FGA/inittab-is-history.html#svscanboot , and was a source of
problems long before systemd was invented.


Greg Wooledge:

> 
> (The Linux kernel introduced an entirely new thing called a "cgroup" to
> make this possible. That's how ridiculous self-backgrounding is.)
> 

Control groups are not jobs
http://jdebp.eu./FGA/linux-control-groups-are-not-jobs.html ; they were
introduced to do resource limiting, and the systemd developers have actually
complained quite a lot over the years that control groups did not turn out to be
what they thought they were.


Greg Wooledge:

> 
> $ systemctl status daemontools.service
> 
> * daemontools.service – daemontools supervisor
> Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/daemontools.service; enabled)
> Active: active (running) since Wed 2017-01-11 03:28:47 EST; 2 months 21
> days ago
> Main PID: 529 (svscanboot)
> CGroup: /system.slice/daemontools.service
> |- 529 /bin/sh /command/svscanboot /dev/ttyS0
> |- 531 svscan /service
> 

... and there is svscanboot being a problem again.  Notice how the main PID is
wrong, and the log output from svscan (when there is some) does not go into the
log that systemctl shows below this.


Greg Wooledge:

> 
> if you want to change the behavior of the Debian default getty@ service to
> make it stop clearing the screen all the damned time,
> 

The world wants you to clean your screen
http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/233855/5132 , and this is merely one of the ways
that it makes you do so.

Re: ssl isues are Eating me alive.

[Martin McCormick]

Greg Wooledge  writes:
> Apparently all of the terminal-based browsers in wheezy and jessie are
> linked with libgnutls instead of libopenssl, and libgnutls (at least as
> provided by jessie) is completely incapable of forming an SSL connection
> with half of the Web.
> 
> Every time someone in IRC pastes an https://* link, it's a roll of the
> dice whether I'll be able to open it in elinks.  https://paste.debian.net/
> is one example of a site that does not work.  If you remove the 's'
> and just go to http://paste.debian.net/ it's fine.
> 
> Most other paste sites don't offer a working option like that.

Yup. The one I needed to go to didn't.

At least I don't feel like I just failed to keep
something up to date or am doing something stupid so I feel a
little better. Who knows? It might get fixed one day.

Thank you.

Martin

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Nicolas George:
> The process with PID one is the only immortal process on the system, and
> adopts all orphan processes.

Wrong.  Indeed, it was the systemd people who drove the making it wrong.

* https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/177361/5132

Tiny Utility Toolkit for Tweaking Large Environments

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Dan Ritter:

> 
> Eventually we'll have to do the work, but the operations staff here has a
> consensus that if we're going to do the work, we might as well go to a system
> that we feel capable of understanding and trusting, something more like
> daemontools. Nosh is being considered.
> 

Having thought about this, I'd do things this way:

You need two new extensions Tuttle:noshService and Tuttle::noshSocket.  Both
work by having INI files in your master configuration area, and they generate
the actual service bundles on the slave systems from those.

Tuttle:noshService ...

* ... has the extension keyword nosh-service.
* ... has two source INI files, ${wibble}.service and cyclog@.service
* ... configures for a rôle by:
1. install_file_copy()s both ${wibble}.service and cyclog@.service to
/var/local/sv/
2. run_command()s system-control convert-systemd-units --local-bundle
--no-systemd-quirks --bundle-root /var/local/sv/ --
/var/local/sv/${wibble}.service
3. run_command()s system-control convert-systemd-units --local-bundle
--no-systemd-quirks --bundle-root /var/local/sv/ --
/var/local/sv/cyclog@${wibble}.service 
4. symbolically links /var/local/sv/${wibble}/log to ../cyclog@${wibble}
5. run_command()s system-control enable -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.service
6. run_command()s system-control start --verbose -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.service
* ... deconfigures for a rôle by:
1. run_command()s system-control disable -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.service
2. run_command()s system-control stop --verbose -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.service
3. run_command()s system-control unload_when_stopped -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.service
4. remove_file()s both ${wibble}.service and cyclog@.service from /var/local/sv/
5. removes the whole tree at /var/local/sv/${wibble}/ and at
/var/local/sv/cyclog@${wibble}/

Tuttle:noshSocket ...

* ... has the extension keyword nosh-socket.
* ... has three source INI files, ${wibble}.socket, ${wibble}@.service, and
cyclog@.service
* ... configures for a rôle by:
1. install_file_copy()s all of ${wibble}.socket, ${wibble}@.service, and
cyclog@.service to /var/local/sv/
2. run_command()s system-control convert-systemd-units --local-bundle
--no-systemd-quirks --bundle-root /var/local/sv/ --
/var/local/sv/${wibble}.socket
3. run_command()s system-control convert-systemd-units --local-bundle
--no-systemd-quirks --bundle-root /var/local/sv/ --
/var/local/sv/cyclog@${wibble}.service 
4. symbolically links /var/local/sv/${wibble}/log to ../cyclog@${wibble}
5. run_command()s system-control enable -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.socket
6. run_command()s system-control start --verbose -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.socket
* ... deconfigures for a rôle by:
1. run_command()s system-control disable -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.socket
2. run_command()s system-control stop --verbose -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.socket
3. run_command()s system-control unload-when-stopped -- cyclog@${wibble}.service
 ${wibble}.socket
4. remove_file()s all of ${wibble}.socket, ${wibble}@.service, and
cyclog@.service from /var/local/sv/
5. removes the whole tree at /var/local/sv/${wibble}/ and at
/var/local/sv/cyclog@${wibble}/

I've not complicated the aforegiven by including all of the ${tuttle:id}s and
where they would be inserted into the file and directory names (just before
${wibble}, usually), on the presumption that you know all about that.

Then the INI files that you write for (say, HTTP being already taken in your
examples) nosh-socket gopherd would look like:

; gopherd@.service
[Unit]
Description=GOPHER service over IP4/IP6 using djbwares' gopherd
Description=http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/djbwares/

[Service]
EnvironmentDirectory=env
EnvironmentUser=%p-d
LimitNOFILE=20
LimitDATA=500
ExecStart=${localhost:+setenv ${PROTO:-TCP}LOCALHOST "${localhost}"} %p
${root:-/home/publicfile/public}

[Install]
WantedBy=server.target

; gopherd.socket
[Unit]
Description=GOPHER socket capable of single-stack IPV6 and IPV6-mapped IPV4

[Socket]
Backlog=2
ListenStream=gopher
Accept=true
MaxConnections=16
UCSPIRules=false
LogUCSPIRules=yes
NoDelay=false
BindIPv6Only=both

Setting up cyclog@.service, so that the generated /var/local/sv/cyclog@${wibble}
runs cyclog as user ${wibble}-l logging to /var/log/${wibble}, is an exercise in
more of the same that you only need to write once:

[Unit]
Description=Standard format %p logging service for %I
Before=%I

[Service]
WorkingDirectory=/var/log/
User=%i-l
ExecStart=%p %I/

[Install]
WantedBy=workstation.target

Re: ssl isues are Eating me alive.

[Darac Marjal]

It looks[1] like Squid can do SSL Interception. I imagine it should be
possible, therefore, for squid to perform the HTTPS connection and
either downgrade it to HTTP or to re-encrypt it with a lower grade. YMMV


[1] http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/HTTPS

On 13/04/17 18:01, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:54:32AM -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
>> This started out a year or so ago with the occasional site in
>> which lynx would report that it was unable to establish a TLS
>> connection with this or that site. [...]
> It's not just lynx.  It's EVERY single terminal-based browser, and
> as you noticed, it gets worse every day.
>
> Apparently all of the terminal-based browsers in wheezy and jessie are
> linked with libgnutls instead of libopenssl, and libgnutls (at least as
> provided by jessie) is completely incapable of forming an SSL connection
> with half of the Web.
>
> Every time someone in IRC pastes an https://* link, it's a roll of the
> dice whether I'll be able to open it in elinks.  https://paste.debian.net/
> is one example of a site that does not work.  If you remove the 's'
> and just go to http://paste.debian.net/ it's fine.
>
> Most other paste sites don't offer a working option like that.
>

Re: shared objects vs. executables in Stretch

[Christian Seiler]

Hi there,

On 04/13/2017 09:16 PM, Neoklis Kyriazis wrote:
> Having just completed installation of development tools in my
> first installation of Debian (stretch), I tried to compile the
> sources of some of my own apps but I end up with a shared library
> object instead of an ELF executable! My apps are on my web site
> in the signature below, and they compile well in Void Linux. Its
> a puzzle for me but I am a complete beginner in Debian so it may
> have something to do with my installation's setup.

Debian activates PIE by default starting from Stretch in the
compiler. This allows ASLR (address space layout randomization)
to work not only for external library code, but also for the
executable code itself.

The thing is: internally, PIE executables don't exist in ELF.
There are either executables (with fixed addresses for their
code and no dynamic relocations) and shared objects (which are
relocated by the dynamic linker). Hence gcc/binutils actually
generate a shared library when PIE is enabled. Shared libraries
can be executable (try running /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6
on your system, which is the standard C library - that will
print some version information), so that's how PIE executables
work.

Try doing:

file /bin/ls

and that will also tell you it's a shared object. Some binaries
in Debian have not been compiled with PIE (for various reasons),
so they will still appear as executables.

See also:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/34519521/gcc-creates-a-shared-object-instead-of-an-executable-binary

You can link your code with -no-pie to get a regular ELF
executable again - but that won't benefit from ASLR for the
executable's own code.

Regards,
Christian

Re: Mail Confusion

[Dan Purgert]

Hans wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 13. April 2017, 15:47:07 CEST schrieb Dan Purgert:
> Hi Dan,
>> How are these computers connecting to the mailserver?  If it's IMAP, the
>> client and server will resync when the client connects ... so if your
>> oldPC last sync'd a month ago, it'll take it a while to validate what
>> it's supposed to do with the (now deleted) messages that it still sees
>> as 'new' since the last time you sync'd.
>> 
>
> no, it is POP3.

It should then either
(1) remove messages as soon as they've been retrieved OR
(2) mark them in such fashion that they're then deleted later (e.g. on
session close

RFC1939[1] describes how POP3 behaves. Gave it a quick skim, and it seems
that §6 (pg.9) may have some relevant information for you.

[1] - https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1939.txt

-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Brian]

On Thu 13 Apr 2017 at 12:28:58 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> Not being expert with Grub myself, I don't know how it reacts to a
> failure during the search. Just a quick glance at my own cfg shows

For the third time in this thread: GRUB reacts by shrugging its
shoulders and booting whatever the linux and initrd say. If they
are not sensible you can forget about booting. You can judge the
importance of a search line in your grub.cfg after doing this.

This is so easy to test. Just do some deletions by editing the GRUB
menu when it appears. Anything between iffi would do for a start.

> that there are "set root" commands very early on in the file. So,
> again I'm guessing, this may explain where the kernel is being
> read from: one of those early commands has given Grub a fallback
> device.

What effect a USB hub or card reader has on the booting process
I do not know. It could be a factor.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 13/04/2017 à 19:33, Richard Owlett a écrit :

On 04/13/2017 10:48 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:


USB drive ? Then (hd1) is not the SD card ? If you boot with no USB
drive plugged in, there is no (hd1), right ?


Correct on all counts. IIUC the SD card slot is connected to a USB hub.
When not the booted system, it automatically mounted in the same
apparent manner as a USB flash drive.


I don't think so, because it appears as /dev/mmcblk0 in grub.cfg, i.e. a 
MMC/SD card. A USB mass storage device would appear as /dev/sdb or so.



Then the SD card does not
appear as a usable device for GRUB and my twisted theory may still be
correct after all.


Ok then, here is my full theory. You're not going to like it.

We now know that the BIOS does not expose the SD card so GRUB cannot see 
it and the search command fails and prints the error message.


But then how does the system on the SD card boot ?

The purpose of the search command is to set the $root variable value 
with the device havind the searched UUID. As it fails, the variable 
remains unmodified and keeps its previous value. The menu entry does not 
set a default value for $root (which is rather unusual in my 
experience), so the current value comes from a previous assignement in 
grub.cfg. It's probably the root device of the system owning GRUB on the 
hard disk drive.


(In GRUB's shell, you can print the $root value with the "set" command, 
and check that this partition contains a 
/boot/grub/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-686-pae file directory with the command "ls 
/boot/grub".)


GRUB uses $root as a default device used in paths which do not specify a 
device, such as the ones in the linux and initrd commands of the menu 
entry. By chance, it seems that this location contains the same kernel 
as the one on the SD card, so GRUB can load and boot it from the hard 
disk drive. But GRUB passes the SD card partition as the root device 
root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 to the kernel command line, so the kernel comes from 
the disk and the root filesystem comes from the SD card. Unlike GRUB, 
the kernel does not rely on the BIOS to access the SD card.


David is right : you don't really boot from the SD card.
GRUB is on the HDD. The kernel is on the HDD. Only the root filesystem 
is on the SD card.

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Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

And the problem is back :-(

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13. Apr 2017 19:38 by aquar...@tutanota.de:


> I did apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx nvidia-kernel-dkms
> It failed:
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   libgl1-nvidia-glx
> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 0 B/7,479 kB of archives.
> After this operation, 45.8 MB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
> Preconfiguring packages ...
> Selecting previously unselected package libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64.
> (Reading database ... 210718 files and directories currently installed.)
> Preparing to unpack .../libgl1-nvidia-glx_340.101-1_amd64.deb ...
> Unpacking libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (340.101-1) ...
> Processing triggers for nvidia-alternative (340.101-1) ...
> update-alternatives: updating alternative /usr/lib/nvidia/current because 
> link group nvidia has changed slave links
> Processing triggers for glx-alternative-nvidia (0.5.1) ...
> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
> Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.19-18+deb8u7) ...
> Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.120+deb8u2) ...
> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64
> Setting up libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (340.101-1) ...
> Killed
> dpkg: error processing package libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (--configure):
>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 137
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
>
> Try rebooting.
>
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>
> 13. Apr 2017 19:33 by > hans.ullr...@loop.de> :
>
>
>> Am Donnerstag, 13. April 2017, 19:25:01 CEST schrieb Aquarius:
>>> Hans,
>>>
>>> How do I do this when in the menu:
>>
>> When the ncurses GUI is started (ncurses means the ASCII-GUI), then go to 
>> and 
>> enter the point "Prepare". This will then install all necessary packages.
>>  
>>> "This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies
>>> (kernel-headers etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you."?
>>>
>>> And  can I do:  "Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms"
>>> with apt-get install as well?
>>
>> Yes, either apt-get or aptitude, this is even.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

I did apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx nvidia-kernel-dkms
It failed:
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libgl1-nvidia-glx
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/7,479 kB of archives.
After this operation, 45.8 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Preconfiguring packages ...
Selecting previously unselected package libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64.
(Reading database ... 210718 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../libgl1-nvidia-glx_340.101-1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (340.101-1) ...
Processing triggers for nvidia-alternative (340.101-1) ...
update-alternatives: updating alternative /usr/lib/nvidia/current because link 
group nvidia has changed slave links
Processing triggers for glx-alternative-nvidia (0.5.1) ...
update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.19-18+deb8u7) ...
Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.120+deb8u2) ...
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64
Setting up libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (340.101-1) ...
Killed
dpkg: error processing package libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (--configure):
 subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 137
Errors were encountered while processing:
 libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

Try rebooting.

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13. Apr 2017 19:33 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


> Am Donnerstag, 13. April 2017, 19:25:01 CEST schrieb Aquarius:
>> Hans,
>>
>> How do I do this when in the menu:
>
> When the ncurses GUI is started (ncurses means the ASCII-GUI), then go to and 
> enter the point "Prepare". This will then install all necessary packages.
>  
>> "This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies
>> (kernel-headers etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you."?
>>
>> And  can I do:  "Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms"
>> with apt-get install as well?
>
> Yes, either apt-get or aptitude, this is even.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>
> Hans

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 06:44:08PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> Describing Fedora as 'community-driven' distribution is a gross
> oversimplification. It's not that I disagree with initial assessment -
> they don't sell you Debian stable like Red Hat does for RHEL.

Red Hat employees do have significant involvement in Fedora. This is true.
May I ask, what model would you prefer?

Disclaimer: I am a Red Hat employee, but I have nothing to do with Fedora.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

After m-a I have choosen the prepare option. It gave this output:
Getting source for kernel version: 3.16.0-4-amd64
Kernel headers available in /lib/modules/3.16.0-4-amd64/build
Creating symlink...
apt-get install build-essential 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
build-essential is already the newest version.

Seems all is there for installation?


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13. Apr 2017 19:09 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


> Ok, maybe try my way:
>
> When I install nvidia driver, I first check, if all depenedencies are there.
>
> Best way, module-assistant, check, if it is installed.
>
> Then try: 
>
> m-a
>
> This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies 
> (kernel-headers 
> etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you.
>
> Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms
>
> A lot of packages are now installed.
>
> Check, if they are built correctly.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Hans

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Richard Owlett]

On 04/13/2017 10:48 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 13/04/2017 à 13:40, Richard Owlett a écrit :

On 04/12/2017 02:03 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 12/04/2017 à 20:33, Richard Owlett a écrit :

On 04/12/2017 12:13 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:


[snip]

- while the SD card is inserted, in the GRUB menu press "c" to enter a
GRUB shell and report the result of the "ls" command.


(hd0) (hd0, msdos9) (hd0, msdos8) (hd0, msdos7) (hd0, msdos6)
(hd0, msdos5) (hd0, msdos1) (hd1) (hd1, msdos1)


Some BIOS expose a removable media only when booting from it, so my
theory was that your BIOS did not expose the SD card and GRUB could
not see it. The result of ls proves me wrong.

Can you also report the output of "ls (hd1,msdos1)" to check what GRUB
sees of the partition on the card ?


It gives the partitioning description, UUID, and label of the USB flash
drive that was plugged in. It is FAT formatted and used to exchange
information with my Windows machine.


USB drive ? Then (hd1) is not the SD card ? If you boot with no USB
drive plugged in, there is no (hd1), right ?


Correct on all counts. IIUC the SD card slot is connected to a USB hub. 
When not the booted system, it automatically mounted in the same 
apparent manner as a USB flash drive.



Then the SD card does not
appear as a usable device for GRUB and my twisted theory may still be
correct after all.


Any suggested reading on the "BASH like shell" I just used?


The GRUB manual at 


It was what prompted me to ask ;/


Sorry, I do not know any better documentation.

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[David Wright]

On Thu 13 Apr 2017 at 17:48:41 (+0200), Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 13/04/2017 à 13:40, Richard Owlett a écrit :
> >On 04/12/2017 02:03 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> >>Le 12/04/2017 à 20:33, Richard Owlett a écrit :
> >>>On 04/12/2017 12:13 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> - while the SD card is inserted, in the GRUB menu press "c" to enter a
> GRUB shell and report the result of the "ls" command.
> >>>
> >>>(hd0) (hd0, msdos9) (hd0, msdos8) (hd0, msdos7) (hd0, msdos6)
> >>>(hd0, msdos5) (hd0, msdos1) (hd1) (hd1, msdos1)
> >>
> >>Some BIOS expose a removable media only when booting from it, so my
> >>theory was that your BIOS did not expose the SD card and GRUB could
> >>not see it. The result of ls proves me wrong.
> >>
> >>Can you also report the output of "ls (hd1,msdos1)" to check what GRUB
> >>sees of the partition on the card ?
> >
> >It gives the partitioning description, UUID, and label of the USB flash
> >drive that was plugged in. It is FAT formatted and used to exchange
> >information with my Windows machine.
> 
> USB drive ? Then (hd1) is not the SD card ? If you boot with no USB
> drive plugged in, there is no (hd1), right ? Then the SD card does
> not appear as a usable device for GRUB and my twisted theory may
> still be correct after all.

This is just a guess. The OP says they "booted to the SD card". So
presumably the SD card was plugged in, and we have seen mention of
/dev/mmcblk0p1 which means it was plugged in when Grub made the
grub.cfg file. But I'm not yet convinced that the machine is actually
able to boot from an SD card (unless you put it in a USB card reader).

The boot stanza contains:

search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511
[...]
linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-686-pae root=/dev/mmcblk0p1
initrd /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-686-pae

So it's possible that the kernel and initrd are coming from the USB
stick that the OP has left in, or even the hard drive.

I normally expect to see
search --no-floppy --foo --set=root bar
[...]
linux /boot/vmlinuz-... root=foo=bar

where foo depends on whether you're using /dev/ or UUID or LABEL,
and bar is the value appropriate to foo.

That's not what the OP posted. Also their response

> It gives the partitioning description, UUID, and label of the USB
> flash drive that was plugged in. It is FAT formatted and used to
> exchange information with my Windows machine.

sadly lacks the actual information asked for as is often the case.
What is the UUID/LABEL of the USB device? I'm not bothered about
the Windows machine.

> >>>Any suggested reading on the "BASH like shell" I just used?
> >>
> >>The GRUB manual at 
> >
> >It was what prompted me to ask ;/
> 
> Sorry, I do not know any better documentation.

I'm surprised the OP isn't best qualified to answer this question;
battling with Grub goes back at least five years.

Not being expert with Grub myself, I don't know how it reacts to a
failure during the search. Just a quick glance at my own cfg shows
that there are "set root" commands very early on in the file. So,
again I'm guessing, this may explain where the kernel is being
read from: one of those early commands has given Grub a fallback
device.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Hans]

Am Donnerstag, 13. April 2017, 19:25:01 CEST schrieb Aquarius:
> Hans,
> 
> How do I do this when in the menu:

When the ncurses GUI is started (ncurses means the ASCII-GUI), then go to and 
enter the point "Prepare". This will then install all necessary packages.
 
> "This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies
> (kernel-headers etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you."?
> 
> And  can I do:  "Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms"
> with apt-get install as well?

Yes, either apt-get or aptitude, this is even.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> --

Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

Hans,

How do I do this when in the menu:
"This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies (kernel-headers 
etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you."?

And  can I do:  "Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms" 
with apt-get install as well?

Thanks

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13. Apr 2017 19:09 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


> Ok, maybe try my way:
>
> When I install nvidia driver, I first check, if all depenedencies are there.
>
> Best way, module-assistant, check, if it is installed.
>
> Then try: 
>
> m-a
>
> This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies 
> (kernel-headers 
> etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you.
>
> Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms
>
> A lot of packages are now installed.
>
> Check, if they are built correctly.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Hans]

Additionally I saw, debian offers prebuilt nvidia-kernel-headers for 3.16 
kernel. Maybe these are running for your system? I am running kernel 4.9.0-2-
*, as I am running debian testing.

Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Hans]

Ok, maybe try my way:

When I install nvidia driver, I first check, if all depenedencies are there.

Best way, module-assistant, check, if it is installed.

Then try: 

m-a

This opens a ncurses interface. Check now, if all dependencies (kernel-headers 
etc. ) are installed. Module-assistant does this for you.

Then just install libgl1-nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-dkms

A lot of packages are now installed.

Check, if they are built correctly.

Good luck!

Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Hans]

Am Donnerstag, 13. April 2017, 19:00:00 CEST schrieb Aquarius:
> Are you after this info:
Yes, it is then 340 driver.
I wanted to make sure, you chose the correct driver.

> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF108M [GeForce GT
> 525M] (rev a1) ?
> 
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Re: Cannot enable Emulate3Buttons in stretch

[Christian Seiler]

On 04/13/2017 06:36 PM, Christian Seiler wrote:
> Debian Stretch uses libinput for handling input by default, even
> on Xorg, instead of the default evdev driver that was used
> previously. The option for the middle mouse button emulation
> is disabled.

Err, I meant "renamed", not "disabled", sorry. The advice for
fixing it still stands though. :)

Since this change in the default driver selection for Xorg is
something that many people might not expect, I've also reported
a bug against Debian's release notes so that when Stretch is
released people don't face the same surprise you did:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=860259

Regards,
Christian

Re: ssl isues are Eating me alive.

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:54:32AM -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
> This started out a year or so ago with the occasional site in
> which lynx would report that it was unable to establish a TLS
> connection with this or that site. [...]

It's not just lynx.  It's EVERY single terminal-based browser, and
as you noticed, it gets worse every day.

Apparently all of the terminal-based browsers in wheezy and jessie are
linked with libgnutls instead of libopenssl, and libgnutls (at least as
provided by jessie) is completely incapable of forming an SSL connection
with half of the Web.

Every time someone in IRC pastes an https://* link, it's a roll of the
dice whether I'll be able to open it in elinks.  https://paste.debian.net/
is one example of a site that does not work.  If you remove the 's'
and just go to http://paste.debian.net/ it's fine.

Most other paste sites don't offer a working option like that.

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

Are you after this info:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF108M [GeForce GT 525M] 
(rev a1)
?

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13. Apr 2017 18:49 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


> First of all: Which nvidia card do you have?
>
> lspci shows information.
>
> Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

Yes it was a typo!
Purged it now, going to restart and see.
I'll be back (I hope ...)
thanks.

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13. Apr 2017 18:51 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


>> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64
>> dpkg --purge libg11-nvidia-glx:amd64 with message:
>>
> It is libgl1-nvidia-glx, not libg11-*
>
> Is it a typo?
>
> Hans

ssl isues are Eating me alive.

[Martin McCormick]

This started out a year or so ago with the occasional site in
which lynx would report that it was unable to establish a TLS
connection with this or that site. The next step on the road to
train reck is that lynx says it's trying an insecure connection
without TLS. That's nice that it tries and on some occasions,
some sites let this happen, but this is not good at all. Usually,
the next message is that there will be no session of any kind
from this site and that is actually a good thing since an
insecure connection invites all sorts of possibilities for leaks
of information useful to the whole menagerie of cyber scum.

What needs to be updated to make most sites at least
display a page and not just bounce one back to whatever was going
on before the alert and disconnect?

The only real pattern to all this is it's getting worse
by the day so something has expired and is starting to stink.

Thanks for all constructive ideas.

Martin McCormick

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Hans]

> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64
> dpkg --purge libg11-nvidia-glx:amd64 with message:
>
It is libgl1-nvidia-glx, not libg11-*

Is it a typo?

Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Hans]

First of all: Which nvidia card do you have?

lspci shows information.

Hans

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

Hi,

I switched to init 1. I performed a dkpg --configure on the lib11 etc but it 
did not work.
Then I decided to try remove the packages one by one:
dpkg --purge nvidia-glx: succes
dpkg --purge nvidia-driver: succes
dpkg --purge xserver-xorg-video-nvidia: succes with messages among which:
update alternatives: warning: forcing reinstallationof alternative 
/usr/lib/nvidia/current because link group nvidia is broken
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64
dpkg --purge libg11-nvidia-glx:amd64 with message:
dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove package which isn't installed

I initiated init 6 logged in then logged out and all seems well. Thanks for the 
advise or removing the packages one by one.

But what am I missing now?

Kind regards.

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12. Apr 2017 20:45 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


> Am Mittwoch, 12. April 2017, 20:32:30 CEST schrieb Aquarius:
> Hmm, your package can definetely not installed. Is it possible to remove the 
> packages one-by-one?
>
> If you are able, to remove the nvidia packages, you can download the Nvidia-
> driver from the nvidia web site. It is a file named similar NVidia-blabla.run.
>
> You have to make it executable and start it as root like 
>
> ./NVidia.blabla.run
>
> Maybe this is working for you. If this is working, you know, it is working at 
> all. This file can easily deinstalled with ./NVidia-blabla.run --uninstall.
>
> It is difficult from this side to see what is happening. It is easier, when 
> having direct access to a system, so one can see more, what is happening.
>
> Maybe someone else has also some tips ( I hope)
>
> Sorry, that my hints did not really help.
>
> Hans
>> Meanwhile I tried dpkg --configure libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64
>> Output:
>> Setting up libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (340.101-1) ...
>> Killed
>> dpkg: error processing package libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 (--configure):
>>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status
>> 137 Errors were encountered while processing:
>>  libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64
>>
>> What you described below is a bit of too 'over the top' for me.
>> Don't know exactly what to do by what you describe but will try to find out.
>> Maybe I will better first do a backup of data.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Aquarius
>>

Re: Cannot enable Emulate3Buttons in stretch

[Christian Seiler]

On 04/13/2017 05:56 PM, Neoklis Kyriazis wrote:
> I have installed (for the first time) Debian Testing (stretch) on my
> laptop and tried to enable Emulate3Buttons for my 2-button Kensington
> trackball. I tried a lot of solutions I found by searching but none
> seems to work. I have the same problem on my desktop computer, after
> upgrading my existing installation of Void Linux. The emulation used
> to work before the upgrade, which I beleive installed the latest
> version of X.org server. 
> 
> 
> I could not get any help on the Void Linux forums and this is why I 
> 
> installed Debian on the laptop - but no luck. Its obvious that the new
> version of Xorg either does not recognize the relevant options for
> setting up Emulate3Buttons or perhaps support for this is disabled by
> default.

Debian Stretch uses libinput for handling input by default, even
on Xorg, instead of the default evdev driver that was used
previously. The option for the middle mouse button emulation
is disabled.

Create a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/41-middle-emulation.conf with
the following contents:

Section "InputClass"
Identifier "mouse"
MatchIsPointer "on"
Driver "libinput"
Option "MiddleEmulation" "on"
EndSection

Restart your X server (i.e. logout and login again) and it
should work.

Regards,
Christian

Re: Problem after dist-upgrade and dpkg install -f (Probably nvidia packages related)

[Aquarius]

Hi,

I tried to find out X I have and it seemed to be lightdm. So I killed that 
proces but only my GUI was gone.
Find and Locate did not find nvidia.ko

So this did not work for me.

--
Securely sent with Tutanota. Claim your encrypted mailbox today!
https://tutanota.com

12. Apr 2017 20:26 by hans.ullr...@loop.de:


> Am Mittwoch, 12. April 2017, 20:18:22 CEST schrieb Aquarius:
> Hmm, bad thing. Maybe you should remove kdm, gdm or whatever loginmanager you 
> are using out of the way, so it will not start after boot and force you into 
> a 
> bad X.
>
> Then you can try dpkg-configure -a again.
>
> You can also try to delete nvidia.ko in the kernel libs, so it inhibits to 
> start nvidia-driver.
>
> Try then dpkg-reconfigure -a again. Maybe it is working now.
>
> You might try to deinstall the downloaded package with 
> dpkg -r nvidia-blabla.deb
>
> If this all fails, trigger me again, maybe I have some other ideas.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Hans
>> Thanks Hans.
>> I must add when shutting down I get a black screen with lots of text. The
>> system will not shut down. I have to press the powerbutton and hold it to
>> power it off. After starting up again I performed  apt-get --purge remove
>> nvidia-*
>>
>> The output was:
>> root@debian:/home/piet# apt-get --purge remove nvidia-*
>> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to
>> correct the problem.
>>
>> Well, it seems I would be running in circles then.
>> Any other idea?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Aquarius
>>

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[GiaThnYgeia]

John Hasler:
> I see no evidence that it does, nor do I see any reason why it would
> bother.  At least 99% of its users accept the cookies and scripts.  Why
> would it care about a few weirdos like me given that it wouldn't work
> very well anyway?

It is reporting on weirdos like you that paves its way to alot of
uncharted territory of invasive identification.  IOW weirdo IPs are of
interest.
Have you tried startpage.com  They sell "secure" email service but it
seems that is about the only thing they sell.  A bit of a pain but may
be worth your weirdo while.  They search google for you and provide you
with safe links of documents and media.


-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

"Who died and made you the superuser?"  Brooklinux

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Brian]

On Thu 13 Apr 2017 at 10:17:23 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 04/12/2017 02:23 PM, Brian wrote:
> >
> >So try this:
> >When the GRUB menu displays press the "e" key and remove the
> >
> >  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 
> > 380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511
> >
> >Then press the "F10" key. Can you still boot? Do you get the onscreen
> >message you are concerned about?
> >
> Something *ODD* is going on in that area.
> As that string appears in both the "then" and "else" clauses I:
>   1. tried removing them individually leaving a blank line.
>  For both cases grub crashed with a syntax error.

I'm not sure this would be a good idea without reconstructing the if...fi
phrasing.

>   2. removed entire if-then-else-fi construct.
>  That booted without the "device not found" message.

This is a much better technique than the one I suggested, which is a
little unclear as to what to remove. A GRUB stanza does not need a
search line or what is between if and fi. It can be useful, but the
linux and initrd lines are sufficient much of the time.

>   3. changed the last digit of the UUID.
>  That demonstrated that the "then" clause was the one executed.

This confirms your second point.

>   4. used gparted to change the UUID of the SD card.
>  That crashed in ways seemingly unrelated to anything.
>  I'm going to update my preferred preseed.cfg and reinstall to
>  both /dev/sda1 and the SD card in a reproducible way.

I'm afraid I'm not going to try this. Off the top my head I'd expect the
device still to boot with a suitable GRUB stanza

"Erroneous" isn't a bad description of the message. As you describe it
the boot proceeds whether or not the "ENTER" key is pressed. It would be
interesting to know why the UUID is not recognised. Perhaps a small bug
in GRUB? It is a minor inconvenience. A LABEL is the way to go but I
think 'update-grub' will only generate a search line with a UUID in it.

> What log files should I save after each test boot.

The issue arises with GRUB. The will be no records in the logs as the
system has not booted.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Mail Confusion

[Hans]

Am Donnerstag, 13. April 2017, 15:47:07 CEST schrieb Dan Purgert:
Hi Dan,
> How are these computers connecting to the mailserver?  If it's IMAP, the
> client and server will resync when the client connects ... so if your
> oldPC last sync'd a month ago, it'll take it a while to validate what
> it's supposed to do with the (now deleted) messages that it still sees
> as 'new' since the last time you sync'd.
> 

no, it is POP3.
> Note that some mail clients don't always play nice with the IMAP updates
> (I'm lookin' at you K9 Mail), so they leave messages "unread" even
> though they've been read on another device.
> 
> If it's POP ... there could be other things going on, since it's pretty
> much designed to only pull new messages.
> 
> Sounds like kmail may not be configured to tell the server to delete the
> mails when you've deleted them from within the program (or, it only
> sends the purge command on user request).  This means you delete them
> from the kmail view, but when mutt queries the server, they're still
> there.

It is configured, to delete mail, when read. Kmail only offers an option to 
activate or deactivate to keep mails when read.

However, it may be, that kmail does not delete the mails on the server when 
read. This would explain the first point, too. Strange: When I check the 
mailserver via webinterface, all read mails are gone (or just invisible???).

Weired.

Best

Hans

Re: Mail Confusion

[Hans]

Hi Dan,
> How are these computers connecting to the mailserver?  If it's IMAP, the
> client and server will resync when the client connects ... so if your
> oldPC last sync'd a month ago, it'll take it a while to validate what
> it's supposed to do with the (now deleted) messages that it still sees
> as 'new' since the last time you sync'd.
> 
it is POP3.

> Note that some mail clients don't always play nice with the IMAP updates
> (I'm lookin' at you K9 Mail), so they leave messages "unread" even
> though they've been read on another device.
> 
> If it's POP ... there could be other things going on, since it's pretty
> much designed to only pull new messages.
> 

> Sounds like kmail may not be configured to tell the server to delete the
> mails when you've deleted them from within the program (or, it only
> sends the purge command on user request).  This means you delete them
> from the kmail view, but when mutt queries the server, they're still
> there.

Hmm, strange. This should be. When I look at the mailserver via webinterface, 
all downloaded mails are gone. (or may only invisible),

Best 

Hans

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[John Hasler]

tomas writes:
> Part of Google's perceived superiority is that it "learns to know
> you": a couple of search terms thrown in, for Google is "search terms
> + context", while for DDG, the context is missing.

I wrote:
> Google does not "learn to know you" if you block all its scripts and
> cookies, which is how I use it.  It's still vastly superior to the Duck.

Celejar writes:
> Well, it could in theory still try to build profiles of searchers via
> IP addresses [I understand that this wouldn't be that reliable, due to
> things like proxies and NAT]. Do we know for a fact whether it does
> [or does not]?

I see no evidence that it does, nor do I see any reason why it would
bother.  At least 99% of its users accept the cookies and scripts.  Why
would it care about a few weirdos like me given that it wouldn't work
very well anyway?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Mail Confusion

[Dan Purgert]

Hans wrote:
> Dear list, 
>
> I am a little bit confused about mail behaviour. There are two things,
> I do not understand. 
>
> First of all, the following:
>
> When I was long time online with another computer, reading my mails,
> and then switch to another computer back, then I rsync the Mailfolder
> to the other computer (so that all mails are on the computer, I used
> not the long time).
>
> But then, this computer indexes the Mailfolder again (what is ok) and
> then the weired thing starts: It downloads all mails again from the
> mailserver, even I deleted them on this mailserver! This are also
> mails, which are some years old. Where do these mails come from??? By
> accessing the mailserver via webinterface, it shows - NO MAILS!
> Strange thing. Can somebody technical explain this weired behaviour?

How are these computers connecting to the mailserver?  If it's IMAP, the
client and server will resync when the client connects ... so if your
oldPC last sync'd a month ago, it'll take it a while to validate what
it's supposed to do with the (now deleted) messages that it still sees
as 'new' since the last time you sync'd.

Note that some mail clients don't always play nice with the IMAP updates
(I'm lookin' at you K9 Mail), so they leave messages "unread" even
though they've been read on another device.

If it's POP ... there could be other things going on, since it's pretty
much designed to only pull new messages.

>
>
> The second thing is: I have local system mails, which are sent to my user 
> account on my computer. These are read with kmail2, and after I read, I 
> deleted them. However, when I call mutt, these mails are still there.
> How must I configure kmail2, so that the mails are deleted in mutt,
> too, when I delte them in kmail2? There are four settings in the
> configuration: none, mutt-dotlock, procmail-lock and
> mutt-lock-with-rights (hopefully correct translated, my kmail2 is in
> German).
>

Sounds like kmail may not be configured to tell the server to delete the
mails when you've deleted them from within the program (or, it only
sends the purge command on user request).  This means you delete them
from the kmail view, but when mutt queries the server, they're still
there.

-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Richard Owlett]

On 04/12/2017 01:49 PM, songbird wrote:

Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 12/04/2017 à 17:14, Richard Owlett a écrit :


Whether initiated after power-on OR a restart the observed sequence is:
1. Appearance of the Grub2 menu with a choice of 4 instances of Debian.
2. Select instance installed on the SD card.
3. Screen clears, this message appears against the Debian 8 background.
   error:  no such device: 380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511.
   Press any key to continue ...
4. Otherwise the instance of Debian on the SD card boots routinely.


This is a GRUB error message which cannot find the UUID specified in a
"search" command.

In order to investigate, can you
- report the menu entry code for the SD card system in
/boot/grub/grub.cfg (the one from the system on the hard drive owning
GRUB, not the one on the SD card) ;


  yep!



- while the SD card is inserted, in the GRUB menu press "c" to enter a
GRUB shell and report the result of the "ls" command.


  also, check that the mount points exist for
the file system.

  you may think you've installed things to one
location only to later find you've actually
put them someplace else...


I do not understand those 2 questions.
Gparted displays what I expect to see.
All partitions are mountable using the "Places" menu on MATE's panel.




  another thing you can do is construct your own
menu entry and put it in /etc/grub.d/40_custom file


I don't see that being informative for this problem.



here is an example from when i was playing around
last week (you may need to insmod something else(s)
to get the efi, ssd, ext4, whatever partition table
type you use, etc. going):  [and only use the lines from
between the ='s]  adjust as needed/desired.  :)

oh and of course, check your partition tables on the
devices to make sure they're actually what you expect.



???
See comment re your 1st 2 questions.




==
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries.  Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment.  Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.

menuentry "Count to three before launching..." {

echo "1..."
sleep 1
echo "2..."
sleep 1
echo "3..."
sleep 1

set linux_gfx_mode=
export linux_gfx_mode
load_video
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
insmod usb
insmod fat

set root='hd0,msdos1'

echo'Loading Linux 4.9.0-1-686-pae ...'
linux   /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-1-686-pae ro root=LABEL=ROOT_007
echo'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd  /boot/initrd.img-4.9.0-1-686-pae
}
==

  and then run update-grub to get your new menu.


  songbird

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[Celejar]

On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:43:26 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> tomas writes:
> > Part of Google's perceived superiority is that it "learns to know
> > you": a couple of search terms thrown in, for Google is "search terms
> > + context", while for DDG, the context is missing.
> 
> Google does not "learn to know you" if you block all its scripts and
> cookies, which is how I use it.  It's still vastly superior to the Duck.

Well, it could in theory still try to build profiles of searchers via
IP addresses [I understand that this wouldn't be that reliable, due to
things like proxies and NAT]. Do we know for a fact whether it does [or
does not]?

Celejar

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 13/04/2017 à 13:40, Richard Owlett a écrit :

On 04/12/2017 02:03 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 12/04/2017 à 20:33, Richard Owlett a écrit :

On 04/12/2017 12:13 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:


[snip]

- while the SD card is inserted, in the GRUB menu press "c" to enter a
GRUB shell and report the result of the "ls" command.


(hd0) (hd0, msdos9) (hd0, msdos8) (hd0, msdos7) (hd0, msdos6)
(hd0, msdos5) (hd0, msdos1) (hd1) (hd1, msdos1)


Some BIOS expose a removable media only when booting from it, so my
theory was that your BIOS did not expose the SD card and GRUB could
not see it. The result of ls proves me wrong.

Can you also report the output of "ls (hd1,msdos1)" to check what GRUB
sees of the partition on the card ?


It gives the partitioning description, UUID, and label of the USB flash
drive that was plugged in. It is FAT formatted and used to exchange
information with my Windows machine.


USB drive ? Then (hd1) is not the SD card ? If you boot with no USB 
drive plugged in, there is no (hd1), right ? Then the SD card does not 
appear as a usable device for GRUB and my twisted theory may still be 
correct after all.



Any suggested reading on the "BASH like shell" I just used?


The GRUB manual at 


It was what prompted me to ask ;/


Sorry, I do not know any better documentation.

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Reco]

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:02:54PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 09:09:45AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > Fedora is the development and test bed for RHEL much as Debian
> > Testing is for Stable.
> 
> That's not a perfect analogy by any means: Fedora is used as a test bed for
> technology that later ends up in RHEL, yes, but that's the end of it. One is a
> commercial product, the other a community-driven, desktop-oriented
> distribution.

[1] says:

The Fedora Engineering Steering Committee (FESCo) is a community-elected
body empowered by the Council to manage the technical features of the
Fedora distribution and specific implementations of policy in the Fedora
Project.


[2] lists 9 current FESCo members, at least 3 of whose are Red Hat
employees. Specifically, [3], [4] and [5].


[6] also has some interesting things to say about Red Hat involvement in
Fedora.


Describing Fedora as 'community-driven' distribution is a gross
oversimplification. It's not that I disagree with initial assessment -
they don't sell you Debian stable like Red Hat does for RHEL.

Reco

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo

[2] 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Engineering_Steering_Committee?rd=FESCo

[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ausil

[4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin 

[5] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sgallagh

[6] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Richard Owlett]

On 04/12/2017 02:23 PM, Brian wrote:

On Wed 12 Apr 2017 at 13:33:02 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


On theory "too much better than too little" I see:

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ###

### END /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux (8.6) (on /dev/mmcblk0p1)' --class gnu-linux
--class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option
'osprober-gnulinux-simple-380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511' {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511
else
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511
fi
linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-686-pae root=/dev/mmcblk0p1
initrd /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-686-pae
}



GRUB is content to boot whatever is on the SD (as you observe) so must
be happy enough with the stanza above; there is no problem with booting
there. Actually, GRUB only uses

 linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-686-pae root=/dev/mmcblk0p1

and

 initrd /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-686-pae

to get everything up and running. Without those two lines you would not
be booting.

So try this:
When the GRUB menu displays press the "e" key and remove the

  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 380e2a6d-f851-4fd1-9db2-869a0982b511

Then press the "F10" key. Can you still boot? Do you get the onscreen
message you are concerned about?




Something *ODD* is going on in that area.
As that string appears in both the "then" and "else" clauses I:
  1. tried removing them individually leaving a blank line.
 For both cases grub crashed with a syntax error.
  2. removed entire if-then-else-fi construct.
 That booted without the "device not found" message.
  3. changed the last digit of the UUID.
 That demonstrated that the "then" clause was the one executed.
  4. used gparted to change the UUID of the SD card.
 That crashed in ways seemingly unrelated to anything.
 I'm going to update my preferred preseed.cfg and reinstall to
 both /dev/sda1 and the SD card in a reproducible way.

What log files should I save after each test boot.

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Catherine Gramze]

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 5:23 AM, GiaThnYgeia  wrote:
> 
> Catherine Gramze:
>> /snip...
> 
> I did not ask for advice on what to do, we are discussing the freedom of
> choice, remember?

Yes, your freedom of choice to attempt to do something ridiculous. Making 
choices that are not within the realm of the possible indicates a faulty thought
process. 

> What business of catering is Debian in?
> Technological developing and progressing future was what we live in.

So try joining us here, instead of in your fantasy.

> Then Debian-hierarchy should skip all this open and free moralization it
> plasters all over the place and just stick to non-free industrialists'
> puppets they have become, those decision makers, not debian!
> 
> Debian is all about choice!  It is just like claiming the same to the
> shoppers in the wal-mart racks, at this stage.

You seem to be confusing RHEL with Debian. Critical decisions like 
switching to systemd or dropping support for ancient hardware are 
not made capriciously, or because "industry" wants it, but are voted 
on by the Debian community. Sometimes just the developers, sometimes 
the users as well. 

You do still have the option of using ancient hardware. You just might 
have to use an older version of Debian with it. That is the logical 
consequence of your peculiar hardware choice.

> What is your interest in defending the authorities of this hierarchy?
> Are they hiring or are you already in? 


At one time I began the process to become a Debian package maintainer, 
but made the switch to Apple instead. So, no, I am only a user. I defend 
the "hierarchy" because I have some understanding of how it actually works, 
which is messy because it is democratic. You seem to be assuming some 
corporate structure and employees, which is not the case. Debian runs on 
volunteer labor. The developers elect the "boss" aka the project manager. 
They take Free Software seriously, donating their evening and weekend time 
and expertise to Debian while they work day jobs.

Cathy

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[John Hasler]

tomas writes:
> Part of Google's perceived superiority is that it "learns to know
> you": a couple of search terms thrown in, for Google is "search terms
> + context", while for DDG, the context is missing.

Google does not "learn to know you" if you block all its scripts and
cookies, which is how I use it.  It's still vastly superior to the Duck.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 02:43:48PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Thursday 06 April 2017 19:41:15 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I've been avoiding Google for personal reasons and using DuckDuckGo
> > instead. DuckDuckGo does not return that page - I'd assumed the two
> > search engines were equally productive.
> 
> No, they are not.  That is why some of us sadly use Google - it has a LOT of 
> faults and problems, but it is a superb search engine.
> 
> Morally, of course, DuckDuckGo wins.

Part of Google's perceived superiority is that it "learns to know you": a
couple of search terms thrown in, for Google is "search terms + context",
while for DDG, the context is missing.

I've a nice anecdote for you: a friend of mine is doing her master's
thesis in molecular biology and had a bunch of articles she researched
from her PC at work (via Google). At home, she wanted to look up something
and didn't have the refs handy, so she repeated the search... only to
get totally different results, more suitable to an interested layperson.

Her box at the lab had a different personality than the one at home
(we had a talk about this a couple of days before, and she's an incredibly
smart person, so that's why she noticed).

Since then she's a DuckDuckGo user :-)

What's the problem? Using DuckDuckGo "right" entails being aware of
that and putting slightly more work into establishing context with
additional search terms. DDG won't equal Google any time (much less
raw power), but "training" your querying skills helps reduce most
of the difference in quality. Google makes you lazy because "it
already knows what you're looking for".

I switched from Google to DDG a couple of years ago, falling back
to Google when "there must be a hit for that, dammit". From one
to two fall-backs weekly, I'm now solidly below once a month.

So if you want to do yourself a favour (in terms of skills and
autonomy), my advice would be to always try first DDG, then Google,
and try to think about how the differences come about.

Enjoy
- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAljviUMACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYBbwCdHylQwi0jcfDUL4HJr/HWpzhT
Zm0Anj4MpRY4p2kVhaVGbDzdDgWz2Moa
=hm50
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 06 April 2017 19:41:15 Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've been avoiding Google for personal reasons and using DuckDuckGo
> instead. DuckDuckGo does not return that page - I'd assumed the two
> search engines were equally productive.

No, they are not.  That is why some of us sadly use Google - it has a LOT of 
faults and problems, but it is a superb search engine.

Morally, of course, DuckDuckGo wins.

Lisi

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[solitone]

On Thursday, 13 April 2017 11:02:06 CEST solitone wrote:
> Apparenlty the only way I can restore functioning of the integrated keyboard
> and trackpad is by booting up with an external usb keyboard and an external
> usb mouse plugged in. I have the usual issues in grub and during bootup,
> but when I get the login screen, after 30 seconds or so the external usb
> devices get detected, and also the integrated keyboard and trackpad get
> detected so everything starts working.

This is what I collect from a ssh, running multiple lsusb commands.

At first only the two external devices are listed, apart from the hubs:

solitone@alan:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 04b3:3025 IBM Corp. NetVista Full Width Keyboard
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 046d:c05a Logitech, Inc. M90/M100 Optical Mouse
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

Then one of the two integrated usb devices (maybe the keyboard, I haven't 
checked, so I don't know for sure) is detected:

solitone@alan:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 05ac:8290 Apple, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 04b3:3025 IBM Corp. NetVista Full Width Keyboard
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 046d:c05a Logitech, Inc. M90/M100 Optical Mouse
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

After some further time, also the second integrated usb device (perhaps the 
trackpad) is detected:

solitone@alan:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 05ac:0273 Apple, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 05ac:8290 Apple, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 04b3:3025 IBM Corp. NetVista Full Width Keyboard
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 046d:c05a Logitech, Inc. M90/M100 Optical Mouse
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

>From this time, everything works fine, and I can also unplug the external usb 
devices and the integrated keyboard and trackpad continue to work.

Cheers,
  Davide

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Richard Owlett]

On 04/12/2017 02:11 PM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:
...

  ran across http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=128777
not sure if will help or not, but does point to what i
was thinking (bios, uefi, partition issue or module not
being loaded by grub).


It will take me a while to visually parse that page to make it legible. 
Its miss-use of graphics is a prime example of why I avoid blogs in 
favor of mailing lists and USENET groups. YMMV ;)

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Richard Owlett]

On 04/12/2017 02:03 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 12/04/2017 à 20:33, Richard Owlett a écrit :

On 04/12/2017 12:13 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:


[snip]

- while the SD card is inserted, in the GRUB menu press "c" to enter a
GRUB shell and report the result of the "ls" command.


(hd0) (hd0, msdos9) (hd0, msdos8) (hd0, msdos7) (hd0, msdos6)
(hd0, msdos5) (hd0, msdos1) (hd1) (hd1, msdos1)


Some BIOS expose a removable media only when booting from it, so my
theory was that your BIOS did not expose the SD card and GRUB could
not see it. The result of ls proves me wrong.

Can you also report the output of "ls (hd1,msdos1)" to check what GRUB
sees of the partition on the card ?


It gives the partitioning description, UUID, and label of the USB flash 
drive that was plugged in. It is FAT formatted and used to exchange 
information with my Windows machine.





Any suggested reading on the "BASH like shell" I just used?


The GRUB manual at 


It was what prompted me to ask ;/


describes some of the commands, but not all. The shell can display the
command list with "help" and information about a specific command with
"help ".

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[solitone]

On Thursday, 13 April 2017 11:20:34 CEST Michael Lange wrote: 
> Another thought: if that is possible, have you tried to boot into a live
> system, just to rule out a hardware issue?

I had used Apple Diagnostics to perform a hardware check, and nothing wrong 
was found.

After that, I tried and reset NVRAM, a nonvolatile random-access memory that 
Macs use to store certain settings like sound volume, display resolution, and 
(I realise only now) startup disk selection.. and GRUB doesn't start any 
longer, it boots up directly into MacOS.

After that, I also reset the System Management Controller (SMC) and at least 
now the initial bootup phase into MacOS is much quicker. 

Now I managed to restore GRUB, using the rescue mode option of my installation 
USB stick. Everything is as before: very slow keystrokes response in grub, 
integrated keyboard and mouse working after some time in login screen only 
when external usb mouse and keyboard plugged in (both of them!)

I've noticed that also Apple Startup Manager suffers from the same issue that 
GRUB has: I press keys and it responds after tens of seconds! Trackpad is also 
very slow or doesn't work at all. I need to check my updates on Apple side..

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[Michael Lange]

On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:02:06 +0200
solitone  wrote:

> On Thursday, 13 April 2017 00:27:22 CEST Michael Lange wrote:
> > I would try to install a different kernel (if possible with external
> > keyboard) and boot into that one, if the problem disappears the
> > culprit is most likely the kernel.
> 
> I managed to boot into the older kernel that I still had in the grub
> menu (4.9.0-1-amd64). It was difficult because, as I said, the keyboard
> works badly in GRUB as well, but at least it somehow works, I just have
> to wait tens of seconds after a keypress.
> 
> Anyhow, it booted in 4.9.0-1-amd64, but it showed the same issue:
> keyboard and trackpad don't work. So it doesn't seem to be kernel
> related.
> 
> Now I have rebooted again in 4.9.0-2-amd64 version 4.9.18-1
> (2017-03-30). Apparenlty the only way I can restore functioning of the
> integrated keyboard and trackpad is by booting up with an external usb
> keyboard and an external usb mouse plugged in. I have the usual issues
> in grub and during bootup, but when I get the login screen, after 30
> seconds or so the external usb devices get detected, and also the
> integrated keyboard and trackpad get detected so everything starts
> working.
> 

Another thought: if that is possible, have you tried to boot into a live
system, just to rule out a hardware issue?

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Spock: The odds of surviving another attack are 13562190123 to 1, Captain.

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[GiaThnYgeia]

Catherine Gramze:
> /snip...

I did not ask for advice on what to do, we are discussing the freedom of
choice, remember?

> Debian is not in the business of catering to the special needs of conspiracy 
> theorists,
> but of looking to a technologically developing and progressing future and 
> making it ...

I'd say pushing it not making it

>  The decisions the developers and 
> project manager make are the best decisions they can make within the
> constraints ..

What business of catering is Debian in?
Technological developing and progressing future was what we live in.

Where are we?  Back in the non-central-western-european-middle-ages?
What you are saying what big oligarchic industrialist dictate is what
Debian should comply with.  Those are the constrains.  To accept such
constrains does not incorporate a value or principles judgement.

Then Debian-hierarchy should skip all this open and free moralization it
plasters all over the place and just stick to non-free industrialists'
puppets they have become, those decision makers, not debian!

Debian is all about choice!  It is just like claiming the same to the
shoppers in the wal-mart racks, at this stage.

> Cathy

What is your interest in defending the authorities of this hierarchy?
Are they hiring or are you already in?  In this case you shouldn't be on
the "users" list.

kAt

-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

"Who died and made you the superuser?"  Brooklinux

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[Dejan Jocic]

On 13-04-17, solitone wrote:
> On Thursday, 13 April 2017 09:53:05 CEST Dejan Jocic wrote:
> > If you have old kernel, you do not have to choose it in the GRUB menu during
> > boot, you can set up your GRUB to boot from it automatically. 
> 
> I have a submenu entry in my grub.cfg:
> 
> solitone@alan:~$ grep --color menu /boot/grub/grub.cfg
>
> [...]
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux' --class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --
> class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-
> f3a2281f7d01' {   
>  
> submenu 'Advanced options for Debian GNU/Linux' $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-2-amd64' --class debian 
> --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-4.9.0-2-amd64-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {  
> 
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-2-amd64 (systemd)' --
> class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-4.9.0-2-amd64-init-systemd-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-2-amd64 (recovery 
> mode)' 
> --class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-4.9.0-2-amd64-recovery-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64' --class debian 
> --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64 (systemd)' --
> class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-init-systemd-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
> menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64 (recovery 
> mode)' 
> --class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
> 'gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-recovery-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
> 
> To automatically load 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64' I need to 
> set :
> GRUB_DEFAULT="1>3"
> in /etc/default/grub?
> 
> Cheers,
>   Davide
>  
You can set it with numbers, but you can set it also with quotes, like
for example:

GRUB_DEFAULT='gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01'

Which should be kind of more secure way if you do not to want to 
miss what you exactly want with numbers.

Anyway, however that you do it, after that you will need to run
# update-grub.

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[solitone]

On Thursday, 13 April 2017 00:27:22 CEST Michael Lange wrote:
> I would try to install a different kernel (if possible with external
> keyboard) and boot into that one, if the problem disappears the culprit is
> most likely the kernel.

I managed to boot into the older kernel that I still had in the grub menu 
(4.9.0-1-amd64). It was difficult because, as I said, the keyboard works badly 
in GRUB as well, but at least it somehow works, I just have to wait tens of 
seconds after a keypress.

Anyhow, it booted in 4.9.0-1-amd64, but it showed the same issue: keyboard and 
trackpad don't work. So it doesn't seem to be kernel related.

Now I have rebooted again in 4.9.0-2-amd64 version 4.9.18-1 (2017-03-30). 
Apparenlty the only way I can restore functioning of the integrated keyboard 
and trackpad is by booting up with an external usb keyboard and an external 
usb mouse plugged in. I have the usual issues in grub and during bootup, but 
when I get the login screen, after 30 seconds or so the external usb devices 
get detected, and also the integrated keyboard and trackpad get detected so 
everything starts working.

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[GiaThnYgeia]

Joel Rees:
> kAt, write a novel.
> 
> My dad used to tell me, if I wanted to change things, I'd have to
> change them from the inside. It's a poor expression of the principle
> because you can't get "inside" far enough without X, Y, or Z, and they
> all make it very difficult to change things once you are inside.

Once you are inside you are too pre-occupied in protecting what you are
inside of.  Change will never come from inside.

Joe:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:11:30 -0500
> David Wright  wrote:
>
>> BTW I was surprised not to see mention of the Ken Thompson hack
>> in what I snipped.
>
> Old stuff. I'd expect every significant compiler on the planet to have
> been compromised by one government or another long ago.

It makes no longer a difference, or is it worthwhile to distinguish,
between corporate and gov.  It is one long chain of domination, no
borders, no nations, no private/public separation.  One huge system of
control.  But minds can unplug themselves of the system of illusion.
There should be no need for security in a free world/system.  Isn't this
where unix started from?  No locks, no doors, no borders.  Instead we
are preoccupied in drawing 2 dimensional limits under the eye in the 3rd
dimension.

Multilingual wikipedia is probably the only thing worth saving from this
civilization.


-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

"Who died and made you the superuser?"  Brooklinux

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:42:00PM +, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> I have been doing some research, I have also managed to break and
> restore a few systems trying to run them without systemd.  Possibly a
> harder task than I thought it might be.  Possibly unnecessarily complex,
> I don't know.
> But here is a good source of background on part of the issue.
> http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/

I've just skimmed over this but it seems to not be particular impartial. IMHO
it over-emphasises the importance of launchd, under-emphasises the importance
of SMF, ignores Upstart being adopted by RHEL and seems to carry a bit of an
agenda elsewhere, not least by eliding systemd entirely. I would not rely on
it in isolation.


-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.


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Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[solitone]

On Thursday, 13 April 2017 09:53:05 CEST Dejan Jocic wrote:
> If you have old kernel, you do not have to choose it in the GRUB menu during
> boot, you can set up your GRUB to boot from it automatically. 

I have a submenu entry in my grub.cfg:

solitone@alan:~$ grep --color menu /boot/grub/grub.cfg  
 
[...]
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux' --class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --
class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-
f3a2281f7d01' { 
   
submenu 'Advanced options for Debian GNU/Linux' $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-2-amd64' --class debian 
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-4.9.0-2-amd64-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
  
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-2-amd64 (systemd)' --
class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-4.9.0-2-amd64-init-systemd-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-2-amd64 (recovery mode)' 
--class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-4.9.0-2-amd64-recovery-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64' --class debian 
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-advanced-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64 (systemd)' --
class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-init-systemd-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64 (recovery mode)' 
--class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 
'gnulinux-4.9.0-1-amd64-recovery-7f537d3b-e578-4cd3-8583-f3a2281f7d01' {

To automatically load 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64' I need to 
set :
GRUB_DEFAULT="1>3"
in /etc/default/grub?

Cheers,
  Davide
 

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[Dejan Jocic]

On 13-04-17, solitone wrote:
> On Thursday, 13 April 2017 01:23:02 CEST Dejan Jocic wrote:
> > He should have old kernel still installed, right? If that is the case,
> > he could simply boot with old kernel.
> 
> Yes, I still have 4.9.0-1-amd64. 
> 
> The point is even in the GRUB menu screen my keyboard no longer works well, 
> which is even stranger. Sometimes I press a key and after tens of seconds 
> something happens, other times nothing happens at all. So it's difficult to 
> move 
> in the GRUB menu and select the old kernel.
> 
> Plus now it's been 18 hours since last boot and everything works very well, 
> but if I reboot now I'll struggle again and I'm not sure I'll manage to have 
> it work again..
> 

If you have old kernel, you do not have to choose it in the GRUB menu during
boot, you can set up your GRUB to boot from it automatically. Glad to
hear that it works well now, though you will probably have to reboot
again, sooner or later.

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Joe]

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:11:30 -0500
David Wright  wrote:


> 
> BTW I was surprised not to see mention of the Ken Thompson hack
> in what I snipped.
> 

Old stuff. I'd expect every significant compiler on the planet to have
been compromised by one government or another long ago.

-- 
Joe

Re: System broken after yesterday's upgrade

[solitone]

On Thursday, 13 April 2017 01:23:02 CEST Dejan Jocic wrote:
> He should have old kernel still installed, right? If that is the case,
> he could simply boot with old kernel.

Yes, I still have 4.9.0-1-amd64. 

The point is even in the GRUB menu screen my keyboard no longer works well, 
which is even stranger. Sometimes I press a key and after tens of seconds 
something happens, other times nothing happens at all. So it's difficult to 
move 
in the GRUB menu and select the old kernel.

Plus now it's been 18 hours since last boot and everything works very well, 
but if I reboot now I'll struggle again and I'm not sure I'll manage to have 
it work again..