Re: Installation problem
On 9/14/2019 7:36 AM, David Christensen wrote: > On 9/13/19 4:45 PM, Anne wrote: >> Hi, I am new to debian and I can not seem to get the OS installed >> properly. >> >> What I have done so far is to >> >> Make a free space partition of 100GB on drive D and then >> >> 1. download the first DVD of 10.1.0 >> 2. used rufus to put it on a thumb drive >> 3. Booted from the thumb drive and selected "graphical Install" >> 4. followed the prompts >> 5. Program said OS was installed and to reboot the system >> 6. reboot >> 7. Debian page showed up and I selected the first selection. >> 8. after a bit of doing things I get a black screen with a small >> cursor in the upper left of the screen >> 9. a power off or ctrl alt del is required to go further. >> 10. after reboot I get the Debian screen and select windows and I am >> up and running again. >> >> I have done this three times >> >> Twice with the DVD debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso >> and once with the DVD firmware-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso >> >> results were the same each time... >> >> What am I doing wrong??? > > You are headed down the path of "dual boot", which is unnecessarily > difficult and risks damaging your Windows installation. > > > If you have a Windows computer and you want to experiment with GNU/ > Linux , you are better off installing virtual machine hosting software > and downloading a pre-built virtual machine. Obvious choices include > Microsoft Hyper-V, Oracle VirtualBox, and VMware Workstation Player: > > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/ > > https://www.virtualbox.org/ > > https://www.vmware.com/ > https://qemu.org Given that you didn't crash your system with multiboot and that you see the prompt to select which OS to choose, I would keep the multiboot going. Have you turned off fastboot on windows? You shouldn't see D on Windows but somespace that Windows can't use. -- John Doe
Re: Installation problem
Hi, first sorry for horrible english, well try to turn off secure boot in
bios and try again to install Debian. Or like David suggestion, get
virtualbox or enable hyper-v and install in virtual machine.
Em sex, 13 de set de 2019 às 19:54, Anne escreveu:
> Hi, I am new to debian and I can not seem to get the OS installed properly.
>
> What I have done so far is to
>
> Make a free space partition of 100GB on drive D and then
>
> 1. download the first DVD of 10.1.0
> 2. used rufus to put it on a thumb drive
> 3. Booted from the thumb drive and selected "graphical Install"
> 4. followed the prompts
> 5. Program said OS was installed and to reboot the system
> 6. reboot
> 7. Debian page showed up and I selected the first selection.
> 8. after a bit of doing things I get a black screen with a small cursor in
> the upper left of the screen
> 9. a power off or ctrl alt del is required to go further.
> 10. after reboot I get the Debian screen and select windows and I am up
> and running again.
>
> I have done this three times
>
> Twice with the DVD debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
> and once with the DVD firmware-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
>
> results were the same each time...
>
> What am I doing wrong???
>
> Anne
>
--
Muito obrigado antecipadamente pela atenção prestada a esta mensagem.
--
{}s
Joao Emanuel
Re: How to upgrade packages held back?
On 9/13/19 1:29 PM, D&P Dimov wrote: Thanks David, that took care of it, but I don't understand why it didn't happen when I upgraded from debian 9 to 10, since I used dist-upgrade to upgrade to 10... That's interesting that you do only clean installs, thanks for your tips!Luben On Friday, September 13, 2019, 4:10:38 PM EDT, David Christensen wrote: When I see "The following packages have been kept back", I usually type: # apt-get dist-upgrade I'm glad it worked for you. :-) I try to make backups, archives, and imaging my religion. Those skills give more reliable results than "type this command when you see that error message". They are the foundation of major OS upgrades, OS migrations, and disaster recovery. David
Re: Installation problem
On 9/13/19 4:45 PM, Anne wrote: Hi, I am new to debian and I can not seem to get the OS installed properly. What I have done so far is to Make a free space partition of 100GB on drive D and then 1. download the first DVD of 10.1.0 2. used rufus to put it on a thumb drive 3. Booted from the thumb drive and selected "graphical Install" 4. followed the prompts 5. Program said OS was installed and to reboot the system 6. reboot 7. Debian page showed up and I selected the first selection. 8. after a bit of doing things I get a black screen with a small cursor in the upper left of the screen 9. a power off or ctrl alt del is required to go further. 10. after reboot I get the Debian screen and select windows and I am up and running again. I have done this three times Twice with the DVD debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso and once with the DVD firmware-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso results were the same each time... What am I doing wrong??? You are headed down the path of "dual boot", which is unnecessarily difficult and risks damaging your Windows installation. If you have a Windows computer and you want to experiment with GNU/ Linux , you are better off installing virtual machine hosting software and downloading a pre-built virtual machine. Obvious choices include Microsoft Hyper-V, Oracle VirtualBox, and VMware Workstation Player: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/ https://www.virtualbox.org/ https://www.vmware.com/ David
Re: Peculiar terminology for gnupg2 options.
From: Ansgar Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:33:27 +0200 > The new default is self-sigs-only, the entry explains that one would > need to set "keyserver-options no-self-sigs-only" to revert to the > behavior of older versions of GnuPG. Thanks Ansgar. I should have been more alert when reading. ... Peter E. -- https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Medical_Machines https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon Tel: +1 604 670 0140Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
NVIDIA proprietary driver with linux-rt and Wayland
Hello everybody out there! I am using Debian 10: $ cat /etc/debian_version 10.1 I am running the real-time kernel from standard distribution repositories: $ uname -a Linux petra 5.2.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 5.2.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-08-25) x86_64 GNU/Linux I have a NVIDIA graphical controller: $ lspci | grep VGA 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] (rev a2) To help Nouveau team, they ask to install the proprietary driver. Also, for my video editing work, proprietary driver is more efficient. The problem is, by default proprietary driver does not compile for real-time kernel. But it appears some people using Archlinux have found some way to compile NVIDIA proprietary driver for real-time kernem: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/nvidia-rt/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/nvidia-96xx-dkms/ Also, there may be some way to make it run Wayland. So, here is my questions: is there any work done on Debian side to make NVIDIA proprietary driver working on Linux-rt? To make it run Wayland? How can I help? Best regards. -- Yoann LE BARS http://le-bars.net/yoann/ Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org
Re: Installation problem
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 6:55 PM Anne wrote: Hi, I am new to debian and I can not seem to get the OS installed properly. What I have done so far is to Make a free space partition of 100GB on drive D and then 1. download the first DVD of 10.1.0 2. used rufus to put it on a thumb drive 3. Booted from the thumb drive and selected "graphical Install" 4. followed the prompts 5. Program said OS was installed and to reboot the system During the install, did it repetition your drive, perhaps taking "D" and reformatting it? Your reference to "D" makes me think you have a partition that Windows calls "D:", using an NTFS file system. Debian generally wants an EXT4 file system, not an NTFS partition. Is drive "D:" missing from Windows after the install? -- Kent
FFADO-mixer does not load - patch to fix bug
Hello everybody out there! I am using Debian 10: $ cat /etc/debian_version 10.1 I am using FFADO-mixer from standard distribution repositories: $ aptitude versions ffado-mixer-qt4 i 2.4.1-0.1 stable 900 I have experimented a bug I have not seen in Debian bug tracker system: when I tried to launch FFADO-mixer, it failed to load (see log at the end of this message). I have asked for help on FFADO mailing list: https://sourceforge.net/p/ffado/mailman/ffado-user/?viewmonth=201909&viewday=11 Jonathan Whoithe has then sent a patch which solves the problem: https://sourceforge.net/p/ffado/mailman/message/36760579/ Well, I think this patch should probably be added to the package. Can anyone tell me what I should do to propose this patch? Should I open a bug issue on Debian bug tracker, then send the patch? Should I do something else? Best regards. $ ffaddo-mixer-qt4 Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/ffado-mixer-qt4/ffado/import_pyqt.py", line 35, in from PyQt4.QtCore import QByteArray, QObject, QTimer, Qt, pyqtSignal, QString, pyqtSlot ImportError: cannot import name 'QString' from 'PyQt4.QtCore' (/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/PyQt4/QtCore.cpython-37m-x86_64-linux-gnu.so) During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/ffado-mixer", line 31, in from ffado.ffadowindow import * File "/usr/share/ffado-mixer-qt4/ffado/ffadowindow.py", line 27, in from ffado.config import * File "/usr/share/ffado-mixer-qt4/ffado/config.py", line 35, in from ffado.import_pyqt import * File "/usr/share/ffado-mixer-qt4/ffado/import_pyqt.py", line 39, in from PyQt5 import QtGui, Qt, QtCore, Qt, QtWidgets, uic RuntimeError: the PyQt5.QtCore and PyQt4.QtCore modules both wrap the QObject class -- Yoann LE BARS http://le-bars.net/yoann/ Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org
Re: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
rhkramer writes: > When I used Windows, it was not multiuser. Which version? Win95 was MSDOS with a GUI stuck on with bubblegum. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Workaround for bug #874598 - Ardour: GUI doesn't load
Hello everybody out there! I am using Debian 10 : $ cat /etc/debian_version 10.1 I am using Ardour 5 from standard distribution repositories: $ aptitude versions ardour i 1:5.12.0-3stable 900 I have experimented bug #874598, i.e. Ardour GUI does not load. I have asked for help on Ardour forum: https://discourse.ardour.org/t/no-graphical-interface-with-ardour-5-on-debian-10/101633 It turned out that this bug is a bug from GTK 2. As most developing efforts from GTK team are on GTK 3 and 4, it seems quite unlikely that the bug will be solved at all. But there is a quite simple workaround to this, as indicated on Ardour bug tracker: https://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=5605 It is quite simple. Before running Ardour, you have to set a variable: $ export GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/Adwaita/gtk-2.0/gtkrc Then run Ardour. I have tested this, with this workaround Ardour GUI does load. I have sent a comment to Debian bug tracker for bug #874598 : https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=874598 But as it is the first time I propose some workaround to a bug, I want to make sure I have done what is needed. So, can anyone confirm my message is sufficient of if I should do something more? Best regards. -- Yoann LE BARS http://le-bars.net/yoann/ Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org
RE: 24-hour vs. 12-hour time, ambiguity, and abbreviations (was Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster)
Hi David, > Where would you use it? Why not just drop 12-hour times? > I don't think I've ever formatted a 12-hour time on a computer (unless you > want to count the example quoted below). > Yup, pretty much when we "send" time info to some when it is not life foce-to-face using a 12-hour clock might cause problems. The other party cannot ask us which 10 -o'clock we mean. When I write 22:00 each knows it is 10 in the evening. On the other hand, when we do talk to someone face-to-face we pretty much always use a 12-hour clock because most of the time we use the time as part of a conversation where an event is being discussed and we need to tell when that event is. Having dinner at 6 is pretty much always at 18 and almost never at 06. ;-) > Even accepting that 24:00 Thursday and 00:00 Friday express the same time > could be risky unless you know and trust that the source is consistent. > That's why people like insurance companies often use 23:59 and 00:01, because > to them the exact day matters. Yup, I have seen it go wrong with a band that thought it would be neat to have a concert starting at midnight and got it wrong on their tickets. :-( Someone did not realize 0:00 is just one minute before 0:01 on any given day and 24:00 is just one minute after 23:59 on any given day. Bonno
Installation problem
Hi, I am new to debian and I can not seem to get the OS installed properly. What I have done so far is to Make a free space partition of 100GB on drive D and then 1. download the first DVD of 10.1.0 2. used rufus to put it on a thumb drive 3. Booted from the thumb drive and selected "graphical Install" 4. followed the prompts 5. Program said OS was installed and to reboot the system 6. reboot 7. Debian page showed up and I selected the first selection. 8. after a bit of doing things I get a black screen with a small cursor in the upper left of the screen 9. a power off or ctrl alt del is required to go further. 10. after reboot I get the Debian screen and select windows and I am up and running again. I have done this three times Twice with the DVD debian-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso and once with the DVD firmware-10.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso results were the same each time... What am I doing wrong??? Anne
Re: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
On Friday, September 13, 2019 11:44:25 AM Lee wrote: > On 9/13/19, Richard Owlett wrote: > > When I used Windows I was not a aware of permission issues be they root, > > owner, or group. > > You didn't share that machine? I shared a desktop PC with a middle > schooler that I didn't want acting as an admin, so I created multiple > accounts with different privs. Even now that I'm the only user of the > PC I've still got an admin account + normal user account on the > windows PC. When I used Windows, it was not multiuser.
Re: attempted install of buster arm64 net-install on rp4 fails instantly
Gene Heskett wrote: > Keep me posted please. Assembled today and dd raspbian to the sd card. All worked fine. I am under pressure now, so I don't know when I can try the NFS root and debian. >From the experience with RPi2 it is much easier to do nfs when testing. But in general it is very nice piece of hardware. I am wondering if I can replace my desktop with it. First impression is that video quality is not the best. I ordered Joy-It box with two active fans which came with 3 heat syncs. 3A Power Supply with usb cable and a hdmi cable. regards
Re: buster netinst timezone
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 10:41:24AM -0500, David Wright wrote: On Fri 13 Sep 2019 at 08:35:51 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: I'm saying that /etc/timezone and /etc/localtime should be consistent and valid, in which case they both do the same thing. There isn't one that uses "the actual rules and not just the name of the timezone" and one that doesn't. Perhaps we'll just have to beg to differ. /etc/timezone looks very much like a name to me. What, exactly, do you think a program does with the information in /etc/timezone? Surprise! It calls a library which pulls up a file that contains the same information as /etc/localtime. Unless someone has managed to screw up the machine's configuration, there is no point in trying to make a functional distinction between the two files. (Which was my original point.) They are simply two ways to present exactly the same information.
Re: How to upgrade packages held back?
On 9/13/19 12:49 PM, D&P Dimov wrote: I upgraded to Debian 10, but 750 or so packages were held back. I read that i can try running apt-get --with-new-pkgs upgrade, which I did, but I still have 278 that are held back (listed below). Tried apt-get install , but they are still held back. How do I upgrade them?Thanks!Luben The following packages have been kept back: blueman bogofilter bogofilter-bdb bogofilter-common cinnamon cinnamon-common cinnamon-control-center cinnamon-control-center-data cinnamon-desktop-data cinnamon-l10n cinnamon-screensaver cinnamon-session cinnamon-session-common cinnamon-settings-daemon cjs cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-core-drivers cups-daemon cups-filters cups-filters-core-drivers default-jre default-jre-headless evolution evolution-common evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common evolution-plugins folks-common gdal-bin gdm3 gedit-plugins gimp gimp-data gir1.2-cinnamondesktop-3.0 gir1.2-cmenu-3.0 gir1.2-cvc-1.0 gir1.2-gdm-1.0 gir1.2-gnomedesktop-3.0 gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-1.0 gir1.2-gstreamer-1.0 gir1.2-lokdocview-0.1 gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 gir1.2-rb-3.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-xapp-1.0 gjs gnome gnome-calendar gnome-characters When I see "The following packages have been kept back", I usually type: # apt-get dist-upgrade That said, I no longer do major version upgrades. I backup, pull the system disk, install a wiped disk, do a fresh install, and reconfigure/ migrate/ restore. David
Re: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
> Do you have any problem with my statement: >> Today Linux is being used by an individual who is the _only_ >> user of a standalone system (e.g. laptop). Permission issues >> are much more intuitive in the Unix world than for a single >> user/owner of a laptop. I do: "Linux" is many different things, and I think the above is wrong in all of the cases: - Android/Linux: yes there's typically a single human user, but AFAICT [my understanding of Android's design is quite limited] the user is not really represented by any particular Linux-level user-id (instead, every application seems to have its own user-id to try and make sure they can't step on each other's toes). - GNU/Linux on (typically headless) servers: many human users, and usually none of them have a corresponding Linux-level user-id, tho sometimes they do. - GNU/Linux laptop/desktop: most of the time only one human user active on it at a time, indeed. But the Debian desktop on which I'm writing this message is used by my wife, my daughter, and myself, each with our own Linux-level user-id. And most of the time, 2 of those users are logged in (tho, since there's only a single seat, only one of the two users's sessions is displayed and active at any given time; of course I sometimes have long-running computations or SSH into the machine while my wife sits in front of it, so sometimes both users are active at the same time). BTW, historically, Gnome has not been super-good at dealing with such multi-login situations (the main culprit being sharing access to USB/bluetooth devices, audio hardware, ...). In my experience, overall the tendency is for it to get better over time, but there are occasional regressions. Software developers who don't pay attention of the "multi-user" case invariably mess up the design really badly. Stefan
Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster
> And the only solution to Zeno's Paradox that I've been able to identify > relies on the notion that space and time are not infinitely > subdivisible. Really? I thought the solution is that while the distance is divided at each step, the time between each step is also divided, so you end up performing an infinite number of step in a finite amount of time. Zeno's paradox has a real-life embodiment which helps think about it: the bouncing ball. It bounces back but with only N% of the original energy, so if you choose N at 50, you get exactly Zeno: at each bounce it bounces half as high, but it also takes half as long to perform that bounce, so while it does bounce an infinite number of times it doesn't bounce for ever. Stefan
Re: 24-hour vs. 12-hour time, ambiguity, and abbreviations (was Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster)
>> >> It seems intuitively obvious to me that between 11:59 Ante-Meridiem and >> >> 12:01 Post-Meridiem must lie 12:00 Meridiem. (Though 12:00:01 - one >> >> second later - would be Post-Meridiem again.) In my interpretation of this part of the world, it's never exactly noon nor exactly midnight: "12:00" is merely a shorthand to refer to "the interval between 12:00 and 12:01", hence "12:00 AM" is one minute before "12:01 AM" and not one minute after "11:59 AM". But of course it's just a convention and the above is just the reasoning I use to remember the existing convention. Stefan
Re: Peculiar terminology for gnupg2 options.
Hi, pe...@easthope.ca writes: > A current update gives this note. > "gnupg2 (2.2.12-1+deb10u1) buster; urgency=medium > ... default to self-sigs-only. > ... > keyserver-options no-self-sigs-only" > > If the default is self-sigs-only why is the option set to no-self-sigs-only? The new default is self-sigs-only, the entry explains that one would need to set "keyserver-options no-self-sigs-only" to revert to the behavior of older versions of GnuPG. Ansgar
Re: Is Linux a single-user system ? was: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -"
> What about the really big iron ? The heck with mainframes. Back in the 1990s I had PC-based Debian boxes with users working on dumb terminals hooked up to the PC via serial cables. That certainly seemed "multi-user" to us and it didn't require big iron. -- "There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning." -- Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the world.
Peculiar terminology for gnupg2 options.
Hi, A current update gives this note. "gnupg2 (2.2.12-1+deb10u1) buster; urgency=medium ... default to self-sigs-only. ... keyserver-options no-self-sigs-only" If the default is self-sigs-only why is the option set to no-self-sigs-only? Also, self-sigs-only might be called no-universal-sigs? Therefore no-self-sigs-only = no-no-universal-sigs = universal-sigs? Wouldn't simpler terminology suffice? Thanks, ... P. -- https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Medical_Machines https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon Tel: +1 604 670 0140Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
Re: Is Linux a single-user system ? was: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -"
Richard Owlett wrote: > Do you have any problem with my statement: Today Linux is being used > by an individual who is the _only_ user of a standalone system > (e.g. laptop). The natural person hammering on the keyboard is not the only "user". Daemons are users too, and permissions are the pentagrams that confine them. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: Is Linux a single-user system ? was: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -"
On Fri, 2019-09-13 at 16:56 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Richard Owlett wrote: > > Do you have any problem with my statement: > > > Today Linux is being used by an individual who is the _only_ > > > user of a standalone system (e.g. laptop). > > What about the really big iron ? > "Linux Runs on All of the Top 500 Supercomputers, Again!" > (June 2019) > https://itsfoss.com/linux-runs-top-supercomputers/ Not to mention hundreds or thousands of those same mainframes that run the descendants of OS/360 and now also run Linux, either natively or in VMs. As an aside: Somewhat contrary to the origina post, the Linux man page for su may be a bit above average, but covers su pretty well, including the use of the '-' or '-l' or '--login' options. regards, Tom Dial > > Have a nice day :) > > Thomas
Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster
On 2019-09-13 at 12:05, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 10:44:42AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > >> But time is continuous. > > Maybe. Quantum mechanics still holds some secrets we haven't > learned. And the only solution to Zeno's Paradox that I've been able to identify relies on the notion that space and time are not infinitely subdivisible. I've been considering an alternate one involving the idea that it's just *motion* that isn't infinitely subdivisible, but I'm not sure I've finished working out the kinks of that one to the point where I could comfortably advocate for it. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: 24-hour vs. 12-hour time, ambiguity, and abbreviations (was Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster)
On 2019-09-13 at 11:50, David Wright wrote: > On Thu 12 Sep 2019 at 23:14:52 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2019-09-12 at 21:49, David Wright wrote: >>> I don't see a need for a one-letter abbreviation for midnight, nor the >>> wisdom in introducing one that's already used in the same context. >>> Where would you use it? >> >> Wherever you need to specify midnight in a form where specifying any >> other time would get the "AM"/"PM"/"M"(eridiem) abbreviation. >> >> To have a two-letter abbreviation for midnight but a one-letter one for >> noon might be acceptable, although it would feel lopsided to me, but >> just offhand I don't know of any suitable candidate to be that >> two-letter abbreviation. Again, do you have any suggestions? > > No: I'm the one suggesting it's neither desirable nor needed. > So "Wherever you need to" doesn't help. ...this feels like taking me out of context. The question you asked was "Where would you use it?". In response to that, saying just "Wherever you need to" would seem to be short for "Wherever you need to use it", which doesn't even attempt to answer the question. What I actually said, however, is "Wherever you need to specify midnight in a form where [abbreviations would be expected]". That actually has content, albeit not much (because the answer seemed obvious enough to me that I didn't expect the question to need to be asked), and I don't see how your response here acknowledges that. Whether accommodating other people's expectations, by using an abbreviation where they expect one, constitutes "desirable" or "needed" is probably a debatable question. I think this may be one case where I just concede ground to the world's expectations, in the interest of choosing my battles. >>> Why not just drop 12-hour times? I don't think I've ever formatted a >>> 12-hour time on a computer (unless you want to count the example >>> quoted below). >> >> This isn't limited to the context of "on a computer". I think I >> originally came up with the notion of referring to noon as "12:00 M" in >> a context of mentioning the times in out-loud conversation; the >> abbreviations are certainly used in more than just computerized contexts. >> >> For myself, I likely would drop 12-hour time. But as long as the world >> isn't agreeing to do that, pursuing ways to make 12-hour time work more >> logically and less ambiguously is still worthwhile. > > Oh, don't misunderstand me. I'm not arguing against using 12-hour time > in ordinary conversation and in "real life". I've produced scores of > tickets, posters and programmes with 12-hour times, and wouldn't dream > of designing one that advertised a concert at 18:30 rather than 6.30 pm. > I don't design posters with output generated by a date command, but if > that became a necessity through sheer quantity, I would use > date +'%l.%M %P', sure (but I'd add a test for 12). So... I don't think I understand what position you *are* taking, then. >>> No. I think it's more likely that most people don't notice >>> conventions unless they're brought to their attention. Of course, if >>> you're old enough, you had years of pre-digital experience when no >>> one thought of padding dates and times with 0s. That might be why I >>> notice 'odd' formatting like this. >> >> I may be confused. I thought we were talking about why some people / >> tools use zero-padded hours fields with 12-hour time; I don't see how >> the decision to do that could in any way arise from failure to notice a >> convention without having it pointed out. > > I don't think they make a conscious *decision* to use leading zeroes, > they just use the same old %I rather than %_I (≡ %l) because they > hadn't thought about it, and their output didn't jar. > > Conventional: 8 pm9 pm 10 pm 11 pm > Casual:08 pm 09 pm 10 pm 11 pm > > I've omitted the minutes so that the jarring effect might be more obvious. > > When reading fully specified times, with minutes and seconds, I think > an experimental psychologist would be able to show that a leading zero > fools the brain into parsing the time in 24-hour clock mode, and then > the am/pm at the end causes reparsing, which slows comprehension. > Perhaps it wouldn't work like that in America; I don't know. I'd have preferred that myself, but I've actually gotten dinged by this at work. In the approval-request form for applying a proposed change, I specified the implementation time for the change as "07:00" - including the leading zero specifically as a way to indicate that this was 24-hour time - and got the form sent back to me for clarification about whether I meant AM or PM. Purely anecdotal, and at most one data point at that, but it does serve to indicate that the leading zero does not produce that effect in all cases. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unr
Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 10:44:42AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > But time is continuous. Maybe. Quantum mechanics still holds some secrets we haven't learned.
Re: 24-hour vs. 12-hour time, ambiguity, and abbreviations (was Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster)
On Thu 12 Sep 2019 at 23:14:52 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote: > On 2019-09-12 at 21:49, David Wright wrote: > > On Thu 12 Sep 2019 at 12:42:01 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2019-09-12 at 12:03, David Wright wrote: > > >>> It might be ambiguous if m were also an abbreviation for midnight, > >>> which I've never come across. > >> > >> Neither have I, but I also haven't come across any *other* abbreviation > >> for it which might be used in this type of context (have you?), and "M" > >> is just as intuitive a choice for abbreviating "midnight" as it is for > >> abbreviating "meridiem". > >> > >> One could argue "M" for "midnight" and "N" for "noon", but then you lose > >> the intuitiveness of M for meridiem, and people would mishear the two as > >> each other in nonline conversation all the time anyway. > > > > I don't see a need for a one-letter abbreviation for midnight, nor the > > wisdom in introducing one that's already used in the same context. > > Where would you use it? > > Wherever you need to specify midnight in a form where specifying any > other time would get the "AM"/"PM"/"M"(eridiem) abbreviation. > > To have a two-letter abbreviation for midnight but a one-letter one for > noon might be acceptable, although it would feel lopsided to me, but > just offhand I don't know of any suitable candidate to be that > two-letter abbreviation. Again, do you have any suggestions? No: I'm the one suggesting it's neither desirable nor needed. So "Wherever you need to" doesn't help. > > Why not just drop 12-hour times? I don't think I've ever formatted a > > 12-hour time on a computer (unless you want to count the example > > quoted below). > > This isn't limited to the context of "on a computer". I think I > originally came up with the notion of referring to noon as "12:00 M" in > a context of mentioning the times in out-loud conversation; the > abbreviations are certainly used in more than just computerized contexts. > > For myself, I likely would drop 12-hour time. But as long as the world > isn't agreeing to do that, pursuing ways to make 12-hour time work more > logically and less ambiguously is still worthwhile. Oh, don't misunderstand me. I'm not arguing against using 12-hour time in ordinary conversation and in "real life". I've produced scores of tickets, posters and programmes with 12-hour times, and wouldn't dream of designing one that advertised a concert at 18:30 rather than 6.30 pm. I don't design posters with output generated by a date command, but if that became a necessity through sheer quantity, I would use date +'%l.%M %P', sure (but I'd add a test for 12). > And of course part of the reason I like the idea is because I find the > odd looks I get when I refer to "12:00 M" without previous explanation > to be amusing. > > >>> When I read emails, I only see the Date: line from the header, and > >>> the timedates used in the quotation lines. One thing I find odd is > >>> mixing AM/PM with hours containing a leading zero. I was always > >>> taught that 7 p.m. or 7pm was not written as 07, but I see that a > >>> lot here. Contrast > >>> > >>> $ TZ=Europe/Paris date +'%I.%M %p' > >>> 06.01 PM > >>> $ TZ=Europe/Paris date +'%l.%M %p' > >>> 6.01 PM > >>> $ > >> > >> That's probably to ease parsing by automated tools, such as sort, so > >> that they don't have to worry about handling field width. > > > > That wouldn't be possible anyway, because you don't have control over, > > for example, whether the time follows the date, and other variability. > > That just makes it even harder; not impossible, but unwieldy and > problematic enough that very few are likely to bother with trying. > > > No. I think it's more likely that most people don't notice > > conventions unless they're brought to their attention. Of course, if > > you're old enough, you had years of pre-digital experience when no > > one thought of padding dates and times with 0s. That might be why I > > notice 'odd' formatting like this. > > I may be confused. I thought we were talking about why some people / > tools use zero-padded hours fields with 12-hour time; I don't see how > the decision to do that could in any way arise from failure to notice a > convention without having it pointed out. I don't think they make a conscious *decision* to use leading zeroes, they just use the same old %I rather than %_I (≡ %l) because they hadn't thought about it, and their output didn't jar. Conventional: 8 pm9 pm 10 pm 11 pm Casual:08 pm 09 pm 10 pm 11 pm I've omitted the minutes so that the jarring effect might be more obvious. When reading fully specified times, with minutes and seconds, I think an experimental psychologist would be able to show that a leading zero fools the brain into parsing the time in 24-hour clock mode, and then the am/pm at the end causes reparsing, which slows comprehension. Perhaps it wouldn't work like that in America; I don't know. Cheers, David.
Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster
On Thu 12 Sep 2019 at 22:16:45 (-0500), John Hasler wrote: > David Wright writes: > > Odd that they decided to employ that logic in the 21st century after > > (most) clocks had ceased to tick. > > All clocks tick. "Tick" no longer means "emit a noise once per second" > in modern chronometry. The sun doesn't. > > But it is remarkable to use logic to prove a contradiction... > > What contradiction? That meridies could also be either ante meridiem or post meridiem. I thought that was your argument for 'call it noon. Say "12 noon" if you feel like being redundant.'¹ > > ...and infinitesimals... > > No infinitesimals here. Perhaps some limits. Yes, when you're starting from clicks. But time is continuous. > > ...to explain an arbitrary colloquialism. > > Describe, not explain. Most people use it so the rest of us have to > deal with it, like it or not. They are going to assume that you know > what they mean by "12PM". If you don't assign the same meaning to it > that they do you will be late for your meeting. A description needs no logic. The problem, as I see it, is that people invoke logic to explain why *their* choice of am or pm for 12 noon is the "correct" one. A meeting is unlikely to be at 12 midnight unless it's an esbat. But if a *Newfoundlander* invites you for "a lunch at 12", best check what they mean. ¹ 12 noon might be redundant, but if you ever print a poster or suchlike, you realise that when people scan it for the time of the event, their eyes are searching for numbers, not words. So you might write that a meeting is at noon in running text, but the poster needs the digits "12". Cheers, David.
Re: buster netinst timezone
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 10:41:24AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Fri 13 Sep 2019 at 08:35:51 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: > > I'm saying that /etc/timezone and /etc/localtime should be consistent > > and valid, in which case they both do the same thing. > Perhaps we'll just have to beg to differ. /etc/timezone looks very much > like a name to me. > > $ ls -l /etc/localtime /etc/timezone > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 Aug 14 23:02 /etc/localtime -> > /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16 Aug 14 23:02 /etc/timezone > $ cat /etc/timezone > America/Chicago Yours are consistent and valid. They both call for the same timezone, and that timezone is one that's recognized as valid on Debian. So, all is well.
Re: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
On 9/13/19, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 09/13/2019 03:30 AM, Paul Sutton wrote: >> [snip] >> >> I have it working now after using the su - thing, well it wasn't a copy >> / paste issue here but you do raise a good point there. >> >> Thanks to everyone for their help, would be good to figure out why >> things like this happen. If I put my average user hat on (as in those >> trying to switch from windows) most users would probably just give up >> and see Debian as too complex. >> > > I see an interleaving of problem sources. > > When I used Windows I was not a aware of permission issues be they root, > owner, or group. You didn't share that machine? I shared a desktop PC with a middle schooler that I didn't want acting as an admin, so I created multiple accounts with different privs. Even now that I'm the only user of the PC I've still got an admin account + normal user account on the windows PC. > There has been a recent change from using "su " to using "su - ". > I'm not yet sure if that is an actual syntax change or a change of > 'recommended usage'. My understanding is that it's a recent change in the su program. Debian 9: lee@izzy ~ $ echo $PATH /home/lee/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/usr/sbin:/sbin lee@izzy ~ $ su Password: root@izzy /home/lee # echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin Debian 10 apparently doesn't change the path unless you do "su -" > I think what is needed is an essay comparing/contrasting the proper > usage of "sudo" versus "su" versus "su -". sudo you don't have to give out the root password allows fine-grain control of who can do what (that I haven't figured out. I just added my userid to the sudo group & said close enuf) Regards, Lee
Re: buster netinst timezone
On Fri 13 Sep 2019 at 08:35:51 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: > On Sun, Sep 01, 2019 at 08:32:56PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Wed 28 Aug 2019 at 14:08:47 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:25:32PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > > On Mon 12 Aug 2019 at 08:38:47 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > > The first one is the /etc/timezone file, which as you say, is a > > > > > simple text file that a (root) user can edit. I believe this is the > > > > > backward-compatibility one. > > > > > > > > And that's the one I find useful, in that a lot of applications honour > > > > a value for TZ, which needs to be the text version. I always have a > > > > link to /etc/timezone as ~/.timezone, and TZ is set to its value in > > > > my startup files, which makes it easy to run a session in a > > > > contradictory timezone if I wish. > > > > > > > > > The second one is the /etc/localtime symbolic link, which needs to > > > > > point > > > > > to an existing binary time zone data file in /usr/share/zoneinfo. The > > > > > symbolic link can be re-pointed by hand; the binary data file should > > > > > not > > > > > be edited by hand. > > > > > > > > I assume the system is interested in this one because it needs the > > > > actual rules and not just the name of the timezone. Otherwise the > > > > system wouldn't be able to junp the clocks at the appropriate times. > > > > > > You're making a distinction that doesn't exist. The text value in TZ or > > > /etc/timezone should match a filename in /usr/share/zoneinfo. If it > > > doesn't then you'll get incons[is]tent dates. > > > > Well, yes, I'm assuming that users are playing fair and stick to > > using filenames that exist and not, say, TZ=Texas/Paris. Further > > down my post (2 back) it said "… the string UTC > > (the alternatives are simply the names of the files in > > /usr/share/zoneinfo, including subdirectories)." Is that the > > distinction you meant? > > > > So I'm not sure whether that was what you were trying to say; > > I'm saying that /etc/timezone and /etc/localtime should be consistent > and valid, in which case they both do the same thing. There isn't one > that uses "the actual rules and not just the name of the timezone" and > one that doesn't. Perhaps we'll just have to beg to differ. /etc/timezone looks very much like a name to me. $ ls -l /etc/localtime /etc/timezone lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 Aug 14 23:02 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16 Aug 14 23:02 /etc/timezone $ cat /etc/timezone America/Chicago $ od -c /etc/timezone 000 A m e r i c a / C h i c a g o \n 020 $ od -c /etc/localtime 000 T Z i f 2 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 020 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \a \0 \0 \0 \a \0 \0 \0 \0 040 \0 \0 \0 354 \0 \0 \0 \a \0 \0 \0 030 200 \0 \0 \0 060 236 246 , 200 237 272 371 p 240 206 016 200 241 232 333 p 100 242 313 t \0 243 203 367 360 244 E 322 200 245 c 331 360 … … … 0006620 002 001 002 001 002 001 002 001 002 377 377 255 324 \0 \0 377 0006640 377 271 260 001 004 377 377 253 240 \0 \b 377 377 271 260 \0 0006660 \f 377 377 271 260 001 020 377 377 271 260 001 024 377 377 253 0006700 240 \0 \b L M T \0 C D T \0 C S T \0 E 0006720 S T \0 C W T \0 C P T \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0006740 001 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 001 \0 \n C S T 6 C D 0006760 T , M 3 . 2 . 0 , M 1 1 . 1 . 0 0007000 \n 0007001 $ Cheers, David.
Re: Is Linux a single-user system ? was: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -"
Hi, Richard Owlett wrote: > Do you have any problem with my statement: > > Today Linux is being used by an individual who is the _only_ > > user of a standalone system (e.g. laptop). What about the really big iron ? "Linux Runs on All of the Top 500 Supercomputers, Again!" (June 2019) https://itsfoss.com/linux-runs-top-supercomputers/ Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
On 09/13/2019 09:29 AM, John Hasler wrote: Richard Owlett writes: Unix was a response to the needs of a large data center with possibly thousands of users. No it wasn't. Unix was a response to Multics, which *was* aimed at systems with thousands of users. If you want to see a truly complex system of permissions and access controls look at Multics. It was aimed at universities and similar institutions that wanted to serve large numbers of users on interactive terminals. It competed with the likes of MTS and Plato and was going to solve all security problems (such as they were at the time). Data centers were something else again and used IBM hardware and software. They were mostly batch: IBM's multiuser software was atrocious but it's job control, scheduling, and accounting stuff was to marvel at. Unix was aimed at small multiuser interactive systems running on minicomputers. The VAX 11/780 soon became the standard Unix box. As to history, I'll stand corrected. Do you have any problem with my statement: Today Linux is being used by an individual who is the _only_ user of a standalone system (e.g. laptop). Permission issues are much more intuitive in the Unix world than for a single user/owner of a laptop. TIA
Re: When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
Richard Owlett writes: > Unix was a response to the needs of a large data center with possibly > thousands of users. No it wasn't. Unix was a response to Multics, which *was* aimed at systems with thousands of users. If you want to see a truly complex system of permissions and access controls look at Multics. It was aimed at universities and similar institutions that wanted to serve large numbers of users on interactive terminals. It competed with the likes of MTS and Plato and was going to solve all security problems (such as they were at the time). Data centers were something else again and used IBM hardware and software. They were mostly batch: IBM's multiuser software was atrocious but it's job control, scheduling, and accounting stuff was to marvel at. Unix was aimed at small multiuser interactive systems running on minicomputers. The VAX 11/780 soon became the standard Unix box. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: rocks n diamonds
On 2019-09-13, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > And certainly many more, but that's all I could find in a minute or so > with Google. The problem is, most of the relevant threads have unrelated > Subject headers, like "rocks n diamonds". Which is not the OP's fault -- > it's just the way it ends up working out. > Then again rocks n diamonds never had anything to do with anything, and only the purest of unlikely serendipities might lead the haplessly unaware Debian user of the new su to the OP's thread (around the time hell freezes over, I should think). If you wanted to choose for extraneousness, you could hardly do better than 'rocks n diamonds' as a subject header. But had the OP chosen "dpkg-reconfigure -- command not found as root," for instance, as his subject line, that unlikelihood might have been reduced by a certain margin, though I admit maybe not one significant enough to merit this little aside. -- Thug: This is a stickup! Now come on. Your money or your life. [long pause] Thug: [repeating] Look, bud, I said, 'Your money or your life.' Jack Benny: I'm thinking, I'm thinking!
Re: rocks n diamonds
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:44:55 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote: Hello Greg, >The problem is, most of the relevant threads have unrelated >Subject headers, like "rocks n diamonds". Which is not the OP's fault Good point, well made. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" You're not so safe in the safety of your room Nasty - The Damned pgphplH6_vkzJ.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: 24-hour vs. 12-hour time, ambiguity, and abbreviations (was Re: Default date output format changed after an upgrade to buster)
The Wanderer writes: >Why do people abbreviate "AM" and "PM" when speaking out loud? They don't know what AM and PM are abbreviations of. They think of AM and PM as words. But I'm referring to abreviations for "noon" and "midnight", which take less time to say than "12 PM" and "12 AM", or even "12 P" and "12 A". -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: rocks n diamonds
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 09:45:41AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: > On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:30:46 +0100 > 'su' inherits the current environment ($PATH, etc.) > > 'su -' creates a new environment (based on user you're su-ing to [not > always root]) > > This is a change from previous behaviour (obviously). However, many > (all?) other distros do it that way, Debian just came late to that > particular party. > > There's bound to be info about it on the Debian wiki, https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes > and it has > certainly been discussed on this list in the past. Those discussions > may have taken place before you joined us here, IDK. Search for 'su vs > su -' using your preferred search engine, and you'll see lots of info. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/08/msg00487.html https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/460478/debian-su-and-su-path-differences https://superuser.com/questions/1354131/debainbuster-su-not-working-properly-command-not-found https://metabubble.net/linux/how-to-really-restore-legacy-behavior-of-su-in-debian-buster/ And certainly many more, but that's all I could find in a minute or so with Google. The problem is, most of the relevant threads have unrelated Subject headers, like "rocks n diamonds". Which is not the OP's fault -- it's just the way it ends up working out.
Re: buster netinst timezone
On Sun, Sep 01, 2019 at 08:32:56PM -0500, David Wright wrote: On Wed 28 Aug 2019 at 14:08:47 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:25:32PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 12 Aug 2019 at 08:38:47 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > The first one is the /etc/timezone file, which as you say, is a > > simple text file that a (root) user can edit. I believe this is the > > backward-compatibility one. > > And that's the one I find useful, in that a lot of applications honour > a value for TZ, which needs to be the text version. I always have a > link to /etc/timezone as ~/.timezone, and TZ is set to its value in > my startup files, which makes it easy to run a session in a > contradictory timezone if I wish. > > > The second one is the /etc/localtime symbolic link, which needs to point > > to an existing binary time zone data file in /usr/share/zoneinfo. The > > symbolic link can be re-pointed by hand; the binary data file should not > > be edited by hand. > > I assume the system is interested in this one because it needs the > actual rules and not just the name of the timezone. Otherwise the > system wouldn't be able to junp the clocks at the appropriate times. You're making a distinction that doesn't exist. The text value in TZ or /etc/timezone should match a filename in /usr/share/zoneinfo. If it doesn't then you'll get incons[is]tent dates. Well, yes, I'm assuming that users are playing fair and stick to using filenames that exist and not, say, TZ=Texas/Paris. Further down my post (2 back) it said "… the string UTC (the alternatives are simply the names of the files in /usr/share/zoneinfo, including subdirectories)." Is that the distinction you meant? So I'm not sure whether that was what you were trying to say; I'm saying that /etc/timezone and /etc/localtime should be consistent and valid, in which case they both do the same thing. There isn't one that uses "the actual rules and not just the name of the timezone" and one that doesn't.
When/how/why to use "sudo", "su" or "su -" -- was [Re: rocks n diamonds]
On 09/13/2019 03:30 AM, Paul Sutton wrote: [snip] I have it working now after using the su - thing, well it wasn't a copy / paste issue here but you do raise a good point there. Thanks to everyone for their help, would be good to figure out why things like this happen. If I put my average user hat on (as in those trying to switch from windows) most users would probably just give up and see Debian as too complex. I see an interleaving of problem sources. When I used Windows I was not a aware of permission issues be they root, owner, or group. There has been a recent change from using "su " to using "su - ". I'm not yet sure if that is an actual syntax change or a change of 'recommended usage'. The is also a more subtle issue. Linux arose out of the Unix world. Unix was a response to the needs of a large data center with possibly thousands of users. Today Linux is being used by an individual who is the _only_ user of a standalone system (e.g. laptop). Permission issues are much more intuitive in the Unix world than for a single user/owner of a laptop. I think what is needed is an essay comparing/contrasting the proper usage of "sudo" versus "su" versus "su -". It should also include a discussion of the change from "su" to "su -". Notice no mention of man pages. They are not the appropriate tool for this job. They are written by experts for experts. A useful image might be handing an ESL student a dictionary and expecting an idiomatic speaker of English to result. YMMV
Re: rocks n diamonds
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:30:46 +0100 Paul Sutton wrote: Hello Paul, >Thanks to everyone for their help, would be good to figure out why >things like this happen. 'su' inherits the current environment ($PATH, etc.) 'su -' creates a new environment (based on user you're su-ing to [not always root]) This is a change from previous behaviour (obviously). However, many (all?) other distros do it that way, Debian just came late to that particular party. There's bound to be info about it on the Debian wiki, and it has certainly been discussed on this list in the past. Those discussions may have taken place before you joined us here, IDK. Search for 'su vs su -' using your preferred search engine, and you'll see lots of info. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" When I say ugly, I don't mean rough looking, I mean hideous Ugly - The Stranglers pgpv1137LSCOm.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: rocks n diamonds
On 13/09/2019 09:25, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Paul Sutton (2019-09-13 09:27:58) >> Hi >> >> Just tried to run the rocksndiamonds games >> entering this at the command line gives. >> Run `dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds' as root >> to install/update game levels. > > What is the output of this command?: > > apt list rocksndiamonds > > >> Once I have run su to get to root I try and run >> >> dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds >> and get >> bash: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found >> >> can anyone suggest what is wrong please, > > Wild suggestion: Perhaps you copied the instruction from an interface > that kindly (but wrongly) had translated the ASCII hyphen-dash character > to another typographic variant. > > Try (if you didn't already) to type (directly key-by-key, no copying) > "dpkg-re" and then hit TAB, to let the shell tab-completion help. > > > - Jonas > I have it working now after using the su - thing, well it wasn't a copy / paste issue here but you do raise a good point there. Thanks to everyone for their help, would be good to figure out why things like this happen. If I put my average user hat on (as in those trying to switch from windows) most users would probably just give up and see Debian as too complex. Paul -- Paul Sutton http://www.zleap.net https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/ gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893 1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
Re: rocks n diamonds
Quoting Paul Sutton (2019-09-13 09:27:58) > Hi > > Just tried to run the rocksndiamonds games > entering this at the command line gives. > Run `dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds' as root > to install/update game levels. What is the output of this command?: apt list rocksndiamonds > Once I have run su to get to root I try and run > > dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds > and get > bash: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found > > can anyone suggest what is wrong please, Wild suggestion: Perhaps you copied the instruction from an interface that kindly (but wrongly) had translated the ASCII hyphen-dash character to another typographic variant. Try (if you didn't already) to type (directly key-by-key, no copying) "dpkg-re" and then hit TAB, to let the shell tab-completion help. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: rocks n diamonds
On 2019-09-13, Paul Sutton wrote: > > Once I have run su to get to root I try and run > > dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds > and get > bash: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found > > can anyone suggest what is wrong please, I can only guess you've done a 'su' rather than 'su -' in becoming root. > cat /etc/debian_version > gives : 10.1 > > Thanks > > Paul -- Thug: This is a stickup! Now come on. Your money or your life. [long pause] Thug: [repeating] Look, bud, I said, 'Your money or your life.' Jack Benny: I'm thinking, I'm thinking!
Re: rocks n diamonds
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:27:58 +0100 Paul Sutton wrote: Hello Paul, >can anyone suggest what is wrong please, Yes: you need to 'su -', not 'su' -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Life goes quick and it goes without warning Bombsite Boy - The Adverts pgpR2DmNgFMKU.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: rocks n diamonds
On 13/09/2019 08:40, Alberto Luaces wrote: > Alberto Luaces writes: > >> Paul Sutton writes: >> >>> dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds >> >> Can you add "sudo" or become root for that? I am running the above as su (root) I don't want to spend hours faffing around and struggling to set up sudo. > > Well, and also check the installation of the debconf package? > debconf Usage: debconf [options] command [args] so it appears that debconf is installed, this programme used to work, it has now stopped working. What is wrong with using su for getting root, sometimes I use su to carry out several tasks -- Paul Sutton http://www.zleap.net https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/ gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893 1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
Re: rocks n diamonds
Alberto Luaces writes: > Paul Sutton writes: > >> dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds > > Can you add "sudo" or become root for that? Well, and also check the installation of the debconf package? -- Alberto
Re: rocks n diamonds
Paul Sutton writes: > dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds Can you add "sudo" or become root for that? -- Alberto
rocks n diamonds
Hi Just tried to run the rocksndiamonds games entering this at the command line gives. Run `dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds' as root to install/update game levels. Once I have run su to get to root I try and run dpkg-reconfigure rocksndiamonds and get bash: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found can anyone suggest what is wrong please, cat /etc/debian_version gives : 10.1 Thanks Paul -- Paul Sutton http://www.zleap.net https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/ gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893 1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
Re: Display resolution 3840x2160@24rb stopped working after Upgrade from Stretch to Buster
Thanks to everybody, for all the hints. I think the way to search in, is to create an edid file and load it at boot. I searched in this direction before, I just abandoned that way because it did not work. Now the question I have is: How to create that edid file. The tool I found creates a file in a format, that is not accepted by the kernel. https://github.com/akatrevorjay/edid-generator/issues/11#issuecomment-531120166 I am using latest Debian (Buster 10.1) and put the generated .bin file in /lib/firmware/edid/. I added at boot: drm_kms_helper.edid_firmware=edid/3840x2160_24.00_rb.bin $ ls -trl 3840x2160* -rw-r--r-- 1 xxx xxx 492 Aug 24 20:57 3840x2160_24.00_rb.S -rw-r--r-- 1 xxx xxx 134 Aug 24 20:58 3840x2160_24.00_rb.bin -rw-r--r-- 1 xxx xxx 388 Aug 24 20:59 3840x2160_24.00_rb.bin.ihex -rw-r--r-- 1 xxx xxx 838 Aug 24 20:59 3840x2160_24.00_rb.c Output of dmesg contains - Missing trailing ) on purpose [drm:drm_load_edid_firmware [drm]] *ERROR* Size of EDID firmware "edid/3840x2160_24.00_rb.bin" is invalid (expected 6272, got 134
