Slow connections - DNS problems?

[Charlie Gibbs]

I read Usenet (including this mailing list via the newsgroup
linux.debian.user) on my laptop. so I can keep up from anywhere.
It works well, but at home it takes 20 or 30 seconds to connect
to my NNTP server, newsguy.com.  If I take my laptop to the office
and run slrnpull there, it connects instantly.  I've mentioned this
to people in the past, and the consensus seems to be that it's some
sort of DNS problem.

My laptop is running NetworkManager.  When I wake it up at
a new location, resolv.conf (which is actually a link to
/run/NetworkManager/resolv.conf) gets overwritten with
information that works where I now am.  At the office,
it's simply:

# Generated by NetworkManager
nameserver 192.168.1.5
nameserver 192.168.1.1

while at home it becomes more intricate:

# Generated by NetworkManager
search telus
nameserver 192.168.0.1
nameserver 75.153.171.122
nameserver 2001:568:ff09:10a::56
# NOTE: the libc resolver may not support more than 3 nameservers.
# The nameservers listed below may not be recognized.
nameserver 2001:568:ff09:10b::122

My home router (supplied by Telus, notice the "search" line)
shows two DNS addresses - 75.153.176.1 and 75.153.171.122 -
on its configuration screen.  The second address (but not the
first) winds up in resolv.conf.  The router is at 192.168.0.1.
Dunno about those IPv6 addresses; I've made no conscious effort
to use IPv6 anywhere.

I suspect there's something fishy about that home resolv.conf;
can one of you gurus suggest what it might be?

--
cgi...@surfnaked.ca (Charlie Gibbs)

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Victor Sudakov]

Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
> > > > (serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?
> > > > 
> > > > I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would
> > > > just prefer some minimalistic hypervisor managed from the CLI. The
> > > > ability to access the host's raw disk devices from the guest would be a
> > > > great advantage.
> > > > 
> > > > Please don't just say "kvm" or any other single word but give a pointer
> > > > to a good step-by-step document.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I think qemu is fast and simple,
> > > 
> > > $ qemu-img create freebsd.img 4G
> > > 
> > > $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda freebsd.img -cdrom
> > > FreeBSD-12.2-RELEASE-amd64-bootonly.iso -boot d -m 512
> > > 
> > > do the installation and then try boot it with
> > > 
> > > $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda freebsd.img -m 512
> > 
> > Really, a nice thing. Thank you. A couple of questions if you please:
> > 
> > 1. Does qemu use hardware virtualization (VT-d, whatever is in the CPU)?
> 
> If qemu-kvm is installed, yes, that will be the default. qemu
> will fall back to emulation if a non-x86 guest is requested or
> the CPU of the host is incapable.

Do you think I can install qemu-kvm without installing the 230 X11
packages is requires?

> 
> 
> > 2. Can qemu present the NIC and drives to the guest paravirtualized?
> > FreeBSD understands VirtIO Block Adapter, VirtIO Ethernet and VMware
> > VMXNET3 and some other paravirtualized devices.
> 
> Yes.

That's great.

> 
> Most other tools for virtualization on Linux are built on top of
> qemu/kvm, largely to expose features that qemu already has but
> can required very long command lines, or to do management of
> multiple VMs. The libvirtd infrastructure is probably the
> simplest such management system. Although there is an X11 GUI
> included with it, the command line tools can do everything.
> 
> Here's a typical non-libvirtd qemu/kvm invocation:
> 
> cd /var/spool/kvm
> export VNAME=virtualmachinename
> export CPUS=2
> export RAM=4096
> export MAC=00:15:f1:c1:a2:01
> export VNC=:1
> export IMAGE=/var/spool/kvm/images/$VNAME.img
> 
> kvm -m $RAM -smp $CPUS -name $VNAME -rtc base=utc -boot menu=on -drive 
> file=$IMAGE,if=none,id=drive-virtio-disk0,boot=on,cache=writeback -device 
> virtio-blk-pci,bus=pci.0,addr=0x4,drive=drive-virtio-disk0,id=virtio-disk0 
> -device virtio-net-pci,vlan=0,id=net0,mac=$MAC,bus=pci.0,addr=0x3 -net
> tap -usbdevice tablet -vnc $VNC &

The "kvm" run in the line above is just a wrapper script that runs "qemu 
-enable-kvm", isn't it?


-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Victor Sudakov]

didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 23/03/2021 à 10:54, Victor Sudakov a écrit :
> 
> > 1. Does qemu use hardware virtualization (VT-d, whatever is in the CPU)?
> 
> Yes, I think that basically, KVM requires it (and that Qemu does not)

The relation between qemu and kvm confuses me. "apt install qemu-kvm" is
trying to install a ton of X11 packages including Mesa drivers etc, I
would not really want that. And "apt install kvm" does not find such a
package.

> 
> > 2. Can qemu present the NIC and drives to the guest paravirtualized?
> > FreeBSD understands VirtIO Block Adapter, VirtIO Ethernet and VMware
> > VMXNET3 and some other paravirtualized devices.
> 
> there is an introduction to Virtio in kvm:
> https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Virtio

This is also confusing, as the document is written about kvm but cites
qemu as an example.

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[David Christensen]

On 3/23/21 12:31 PM, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:40:01AM -0700, David Christensen wrote:



I use Stretch for my daily driver laptop (Dell Latitude E6520) and UniFi
Controller VPS.  ...
I need to migrate the daily
driver to Buster, but Buster does not like the Optimus graphics in the
E6520.


Have you tried installing the optimus under Buster 


Looking in my notes, it looks like I tried installing 
nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver in January.  I do not see any URL for 
instructions.  The Debian wiki page for Optimus does not look familiar:


   https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus


In any case, my fumbling around only made things worse.  So, I wiped the 
SSD and did a fresh install KISS OOTB:


Insert debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 USB flash drive.

Debian GNU/Linux installer boot menu (BIOS mode)
Install
LanguageC
Continent or Region North America
Country, territory or area  United States
Keymap to use   American English

Pop-up dialog:

Detect network hardware

Some of your hardware needs non-free firmware files to operate.
The firwmare can be loaded from removable media, such as a USB
stick or floppy.

The missing firmware files are: iwlwifi-6g2a-6.ucode
iwlwifi-6g2a-5.ucode

If you have such media available now, insert it, and continue.

Load missing fimrware from removable media?

Insert USB flash drive "usb64a" with "firmware" subdirectory
containing Debian 10.8.0 firmware.  Choose "Yes".

Continue with install:

Primary network interface   enp0s25
Hostnamedipsy
Domain name tracy.holgerdanske.com
Root password   ***
Full name for the new user  debian
Username for your account   debian
Choose a password for the new user  
Select your time zone   Pacific
Partitioning method manual
Encrypted volume (sda2_crypt) - 1.0 GB Linux device-mapper (crypt)
 #1 1.0 GB f  swap  swap
Encrypted volume (sda3_crypt) - 13.0 GB Linux device-mapper (crypt)
 #113.0 GB f  ext4  /
SCSI5 (0,0,0) (sda) - 60.0 GB ATA INTEL SSDSC2CW06
 #1  primary  999.3 MB  B  F  ext4  /boot
 #2  primary1.0 GB K  crypto   (sda2_crypt)
 #3  primary   13.0 GB K  crypto   (sda3_crypt)
   45.0 GBFREESPACE
Finish partitioning and write changes to disk
Use a network mirrorYes
Mirror country  United States
Archive mirror  deb.debian.org
HTTP proxy  
Participate in the package usage survey No
Choose software to install
Debian desktop environment
Xfce
print server
SSH server
standard system utilities
Install the GRUB boot loader to th emaster boot record
Yes
	Device for boot loader installation	/dev/sda 
(ata-INTEL_SSDSC2SW060A3_***redacted***)

Installation complete   Continue

Power down at POST.

Remove installation media and firmware USB flash drive.


The bug is back -- the desktop crashes within an hour when playing 
YouTube videos -- and the Dell Latitude E6520 laptop is on Craig's List. 
 So far, one scammer and two low-ballers.




- it's not as
straightforward as the standard install but there's a couple of steps
that will make it work. The main trick is to make sure that nvidia drivers
are never loaded until the point at which you've got everythng else
configured.



If you have a URL with detailed instructions of how to install Buster on 
a laptop with Optimus, you have a laptop with Optimus, you followed the 
instructions, and the laptop can play YouTube videos for 24 hours 
without crashing, please post the URL.



David

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Liam O'Toole]

On Tue, 23 Mar, 2021 at 17:06:47 +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote:
> didier gaumet wrote:

[...]

> > This one will probably do:
> >  https://wiki.debian.org/SystemVirtualization
> > (particularly the 3rd chapter "System Virtualization" if I understand your
> > usecase)
> 
> This is a comprehensive document. In your opinion, what's the best,
> simplest and most convenient CLI management tool around kvm?

I recommend libvirt, in particular the Debian package libvirt-clients.

Re: Hardware failure?: Now what? Is this worth pursuing?

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 22:03:08 +0100
Sven Hartge  wrote:

> Other than that: Intel has acknowledged the defect as an official
> erro^Werratum and documented it. So "case closed" in that regard.

Agreed. Thanks.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Hardware failure?: Now what? Is this worth pursuing?

[Sven Hartge]

Charles Curley  wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:52:27 -0600 Charles Curley 
>  wrote:

>> I ran an amd64 VM for 24 hours, and no errors. I just fired up a 486
>> VM, and no errors. I will let that run 24 hours and see what that
>> does.
>> 
>> The i386 VM is "qemu32". I see a kvm32 in my list of options. I may
>> try that as well.

> I ran the VM as qemu32 for a few seconds, and got 7 more errors. I
> then switched the VM to "kvm32". I have been running that for about an
> hour and seen 27 more errors. Still, that strikes me as pretty
> conclusive.

> Is this even worth pursuing?

Only as an amusing part-trick: "Look here folks, I can create an MCE on
demand."

Other than that: Intel has acknowledged the defect as an official
erro^Werratum and documented it. So "case closed" in that regard.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

[Brian]

On Tue 23 Mar 2021 at 21:21:32 +0200, ellanios82 wrote:

> On 3/23/21 5:51 PM, Viktor Vogel wrote:
> > An observation from a native English speaker -
> > 
> > I've lived and worked in the Republic of China, and had gotten a fairly
> > good grasp of Mandarin. In my experience tackling Russian I found it
> > much more difficult than Chinese.
> > 
> > Chinese has different sounds, and tones that need to be mastered, but
> > the grammar is dead simple.
> > 
> > Russian also has different sounds, and the grammar is incredibly
> > complex, baroque and inconsistent.
> 
>  - wonder if someone has observations on learning Modern Greek ?

Gerunds are somewhat more difficult than in Ancient Greek. Apart from
that, most modern Greeks seem to cope with them.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Hardware failure?: Now what? Is this worth pursuing?

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:52:27 -0600
Charles Curley  wrote:

> I ran an amd64 VM for 24 hours, and no errors. I just fired up a 486
> VM, and no errors. I will let that run 24 hours and see what that
> does.
> 
> The i386 VM is "qemu32". I see a kvm32 in my list of options. I may
> try that as well.

I ran the VM as qemu32 for a few seconds, and got 7 more errors. I then
switched the VM to "kvm32". I have been running that for about an hour
and seen 27 more errors. Still, that strikes me as pretty conclusive.

Is this even worth pursuing?

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:40:01AM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> On 3/23/21 9:44 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 23 Mar 2021 at 07:52:52 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> > > On 2021-03-23 at 07:43, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
> > > > buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."
> > 
> > Actually I thought David wanted to do what I did, which is *not* to add
> > buster-proposed-updates to his sources.list, but just to poke around.
> 
> I was curious about the opportunity to evaluate point upgrades prior to
> release.
> 
> 
> > With good reason: ISTR that David runs his farm of machines on stretch.
> 
> I use Stretch for my daily driver laptop (Dell Latitude E6520) and UniFi
> Controller VPS.  I also have a Stretch USB flash drive instance for
> maintenance.  I use FreeBSD for my servers.  I need to migrate the daily
> driver to Buster, but Buster does not like the Optimus graphics in the
> E6520.  So, the plan is to sell the E6520, get a newer laptop with Intel
> graphics alone, put Buster on that, and migrate.  Migrating the VPS will
> likely involve backing up the existing instance, creating or leasing a new
> UniFi Controller instance, restoring onto the new instance, and then
> switching DNS.  Creating a Buster USB flash drive instance should be easy.
> 
Have you tried installing the optimus under Buster - it's not as 
straightforward as the standard install but there's a couple of steps
that will make it work. The main trick is to make sure that nvidia drivers
are never loaded until the point at which you've got everythng else 
configured.


> 
> > I didn't think anyone would miss the pattern in sources.list's buster,
> > buster-updates, buster-proposed-updates.
> 
> I have seen "buster" and "buster-updates" (and prior equivalents), but never
> "buster-proposed-updates".
> 
> 
> > However, I was unprepared for David's response today, of going back
> > to square one.
> 
> A fresh install of the current Stable point release would be the canonical
> starting point for testing proposed Stable point release updates.  This is
> an ideal use-case for virtualization.
> 
> 
> David
> 

Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

[ellanios82]

On 3/23/21 5:51 PM, Viktor Vogel wrote:

An observation from a native English speaker -

I've lived and worked in the Republic of China, and had gotten a 
fairly good grasp of Mandarin. In my experience tackling Russian I 
found it much more difficult than Chinese.


Chinese has different sounds, and tones that need to be mastered, but 
the grammar is dead simple.


Russian also has different sounds, and the grammar is incredibly 
complex, baroque and inconsistent.


 - wonder if someone has observations on learning Modern Greek ?




 regards

Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

[Curt]

On 2021-03-23, Viktor Vogel  wrote:
> An observation from a native English speaker -
>
> I've lived and worked in the Republic of China, and had gotten a fairly 
> good grasp of Mandarin. In my experience tackling Russian I found it 
> much more difficult than Chinese.
>

I remember seeing an interview with Norman Mailer after he published his
book about Oswald, which he researched for an extended period of time in
Russia. He said that if he would have been the crying type, he would've
cried from frustration trying to learn Russian (he never managed to do
it, though he tried).

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[David Christensen]

On 3/23/21 9:44 AM, David Wright wrote:

On Tue 23 Mar 2021 at 07:52:52 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:

On 2021-03-23 at 07:43, Greg Wooledge wrote:


I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."


Actually I thought David wanted to do what I did, which is *not* to add
buster-proposed-updates to his sources.list, but just to poke around.


I was curious about the opportunity to evaluate point upgrades prior to 
release.



With good reason: 
ISTR that David runs his farm of machines on stretch.


I use Stretch for my daily driver laptop (Dell Latitude E6520) and UniFi 
Controller VPS.  I also have a Stretch USB flash drive instance for 
maintenance.  I use FreeBSD for my servers.  I need to migrate the daily 
driver to Buster, but Buster does not like the Optimus graphics in the 
E6520.  So, the plan is to sell the E6520, get a newer laptop with Intel 
graphics alone, put Buster on that, and migrate.  Migrating the VPS will 
likely involve backing up the existing instance, creating or leasing a 
new UniFi Controller instance, restoring onto the new instance, and then 
switching DNS.  Creating a Buster USB flash drive instance should be easy.




I didn't think anyone would miss the pattern in sources.list's buster,
buster-updates, buster-proposed-updates.


I have seen "buster" and "buster-updates" (and prior equivalents), but 
never "buster-proposed-updates".




However, I was unprepared for David's response today, of going back
to square one.


A fresh install of the current Stable point release would be the 
canonical starting point for testing proposed Stable point release 
updates.  This is an ideal use-case for virtualization.



David

Re: Re: Copying stuck

[komodo]

It's current testing.

And other versions are mentioned in the bug repport

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434145

I am sorry I didn't mention this before but the problem appears only with
Dolphin and Krusader.

It has to be something with Kio I think, because there is no problem when
copying with MC or cp command.

Thanks

Martin


>You don't mention what version you are running, but I've just finished
>transferring multiple GBs of movies from one machine to another, via
>sneaker net (flash drive) without incident.
>I'm running SID on an old Dell Optiplex 980.
>Cheers!

>Harry.

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Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[David Wright]

On Tue 23 Mar 2021 at 09:31:52 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> On 3/22/21 8:34 PM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 22 Mar 2021 at 17:26:14 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> > > On 3/22/21 5:03 PM, Keith Wyatt wrote:
> > > 
> > > > As o[f]
> > > > now it will include the following bug fixes. They can be found in 
> > > > "buster-
> > > > proposed-updates", which is carried by all official mirrors.
> > > 
> > > Please provide a URL.
> > 
> > Do you mean for the .deb files themselves. AIUI they're in the
> > pool with all the rest. As for the changes files, they're in
> > 
> > http://XX/debian/dists/buster-proposed-updates/
> > 
> > where XX is whatever you put in /etc/apt/sources.list
> > as your local mirror.
> 
> Thank you for the response.
> 
> Browsing:
> 
> http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/buster-proposed-updates/
> 
> Yes, I do see many *.changes files (one for each package and
> architecture combination).
> 
> But, that does not tell me how to *use* the information presented --
> e.g. that proposed Debian Stable updates are available (for testing).

I would say "for trying out"; "testing" is rather ambiguous in this context.

> Assuming that I start with a fresh install of:
> 
> debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
> 
> How do I download and/or install the proposed updates?
> 
> That is the URL I need.

It's not a URL, but just another line in sources.list.

But I myself prefer to just download .debs automatically with the
usual three lines:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib 
non-free
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free

… and a cron job, then peruse and install them; and I treat
point releases in just the same way.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Cannot see update to recent linux kernel 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1 (from 5.10.13-1~bpo10+1)

[David Wright]

On Tue 23 Mar 2021 at 10:39:07 (+0200), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 22 mar 21, 18:53:54, The Wanderer wrote:
> > 
> > If I search https://packages.debian.org/source/testing/linux for those
> > package names, I find linux-image-5.10.0-4-amd64-unsigned, but I do not
> > find linux-image-5.10.0-4-amd64 itself - even though apt reports that it
> > is, in fact, present.
> > 
> > This mismatch between what packages are listed on that page and what
> > packages are actually in the repository is clearly a discrepancy, and is
> > the core of what I am focusing on in my comments here to date.
> 
> See e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=886792
> 
> It seems to me packages.debian.org is unmaintained, in particular its 
> search function has been unreliable to me and I've been using
> 'apt search', 'apt list' and 'rmadison' instead.

In buster-backports/main/binary-amd64/Packages.xz, I see six packages
built against 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1, viz

Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64-dbg
Source: linux
Version: 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1
Installed-Size: 6961276
--
Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64-unsigned
Source: linux
Version: 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1
Installed-Size: 288300
--
Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-cloud-amd64-dbg
Source: linux
Version: 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1
Installed-Size: 2142744
--
Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-cloud-amd64-unsigned
Source: linux
Version: 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1
Installed-Size: 76726
--
Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-rt-amd64-dbg
Source: linux
Version: 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1
Installed-Size: 6968406
--
Package: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-rt-amd64-unsigned
Source: linux
Version: 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1
Installed-Size: 291183

On https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/kernel/, I see
three matches for linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4…amd64, viz

linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64-unsigned (5.10.19-1~bpo10+1)
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-cloud-amd64-unsigned (5.10.19-1~bpo10+1)
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-rt-amd64-unsigned (5.10.19-1~bpo10+1)

The other three are, of course, on the page
https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/debug/

If I search on https://packages.debian.org/index for
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo. in buster-backports/any,
then I see the same six matches for
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4…amd64, where, as before,
"…" stands for cloud, rt, and nothing.

So I don't observe any discrepancy between the Packages file and
the packages.debian.org page or its search function.

But the OP is, perhaps, relying on the upgrade mechanism provided by
the linux-image-amd64 metapackage. However, that's supporting only
the signed versions, and buster-backports doesn't (yet) have any
5.10.19 signed versions:

$ xzgrep 'Source: linux-signed-amd64' /home/debian/buster/Packages-backports.xz 
| sort -u
Source: linux-signed-amd64 (5.10.13+1~bpo10+1)
Source: linux-signed-amd64 (5.9.15+1~bpo10+1)
$ ls -Glg /home/debian/buster/Packages-backports.xz 
-rw-r- 1 458020 Mar 17 15:01 /home/debian/buster/Packages-backports.xz
$ 

(I haven't delved into what the new versions support as I'm currently
on 4.19, but that might change soon as I have a newish HP laptop to
play with.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[David Wright]

On Tue 23 Mar 2021 at 07:52:52 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-03-23 at 07:43, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
> > buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."

Actually I thought David wanted to do what I did, which is *not* to add
buster-proposed-updates to his sources.list, but just to poke around.
With good reason: ISTR that David runs his farm of machines on stretch.

I didn't think anyone would miss the pattern in sources.list's buster,
buster-updates, buster-proposed-updates.

However, I was unprepared for David's response today, of going back
to square one.

> > Here's a wiki page: 
> > However, I would not follow its advice literally.  You *never* want
> > to put the word "stable" in your sources.list.  You want to put the
> > actual name of a release instead.
> 
> That depends on what your update patterns are. It's probably generally
> good advice, but it's certainly not universal.

Agreed, it's not universal practice, but it might be worth having
as a default for advice.

> For myself, I have stable and testing in my sources.liist, and usually
> update at least weekly if not daily. This is effectively updating
> against testing, but keeps packages in stable which have been removed
> from testing available to be installed if I want them.
> 
> When testing is released as stable and a new testing becomes available,
> I lose access to the packages which were previously in stable (now
> oldstable), which are old enough that it's probably not reasonable to
> want to install them without specifically knowing that that's what
> you're doing; I retain access to the packages previously in testing
> (because they're now in stable, which is already in my sources.list); I
> gain access to the new testing, to continue the pattern; and I do it all
> without having to update sources.list for the purpose.
> 
> I don't see how that's unsafe or unreasonable; certainly I've been doing
> it for years, I believe for over a decade, without encountering issues
> which I think could even potentially be traced to it.
> 
> > So, wherever the wiki says to use stable-proposed-updates, please
> > use buster-proposed-updates instead.
> 
> This is generally reasonable, however. My update pattern is unlikely to
> be typical, and might be considered a special use-case.

To be fair, once you've added testing, then you're in the category of
a rolling-update Debian distribution, which is not the same as the
target of that webpage, a rolling-update Debian Stable distribution.

The problem that putting "stable" into sources.list causes is, of
course, the shock of Release Day to people who might be quite
unprepared for it. It's difficult to envisage that you're unprepared
for the effect of that day on testing.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[David Christensen]

On 3/23/21 4:43 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 10:34:12PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 22 Mar 2021 at 17:26:14 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:

On 3/22/21 5:03 PM, Keith Wyatt wrote:


As o[f]
now it will include the following bug fixes. They can be found in "buster-
proposed-updates", which is carried by all official mirrors.


Please provide a URL.


Do you mean for the .deb files themselves. AIUI they're in the
pool with all the rest. As for the changes files, they're in

http://XX/debian/dists/buster-proposed-updates/

where XX is whatever you put in /etc/apt/sources.list
as your local mirror.


I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."

Here's a wiki page: 
However, I would not follow its advice literally.  You *never* want
to put the word "stable" in your sources.list.  You want to put the
actual name of a release instead.

So, wherever the wiki says to use stable-proposed-updates, please use
buster-proposed-updates instead.



Thank you for understanding practicality.  :-)


David

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[David Christensen]

On 3/22/21 8:34 PM, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 22 Mar 2021 at 17:26:14 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:

On 3/22/21 5:03 PM, Keith Wyatt wrote:


As o[f]
now it will include the following bug fixes. They can be found in "buster-
proposed-updates", which is carried by all official mirrors.


Please provide a URL.


Do you mean for the .deb files themselves. AIUI they're in the
pool with all the rest. As for the changes files, they're in

http://XX/debian/dists/buster-proposed-updates/

where XX is whatever you put in /etc/apt/sources.list
as your local mirror.



Thank you for the response.


Browsing:

http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/buster-proposed-updates/


Yes, I do see many *.changes files (one for each package and 
architecture combination).



But, that does not tell me how to *use* the information presented -- 
e.g. that proposed Debian Stable updates are available (for testing).



Assuming that I start with a fresh install of:

debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso


How do I download and/or install the proposed updates?


That is the URL I need.


David

Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

[Viktor Vogel]

An observation from a native English speaker -

I've lived and worked in the Republic of China, and had gotten a fairly 
good grasp of Mandarin. In my experience tackling Russian I found it 
much more difficult than Chinese.


Chinese has different sounds, and tones that need to be mastered, but 
the grammar is dead simple.


Russian also has different sounds, and the grammar is incredibly 
complex, baroque and inconsistent.


Viktor

On 3/22/21 1:35 PM, John Hasler wrote:

  deloptes writes:

You mean Chinese is easier than Russian and Russian is harder than
French?

I have no experience with Chinese but I found Russian harder than French
(though I've pretty much forgotten both).


--
"It's always rewarding to talk to a clever man" - Raskolnikov, "Crime and 
Punishment"

Re: mdadm and whole disk array members

[Reco]

Hi.

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 01:44:23PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> IMO the problem is that if it is not a partition the mdadm can not
> assemble as it is looking for a partition,

My mdadm.conf says:

# by default (built-in), scan all partitions (/proc/partitions) and all
# containers for MD superblocks. alternatively, specify devices to scan,
# using wildcards if desired.
#DEVICE partitions containers


And /proc/partitions always had whole disks, their partitions, lvm
volumes and whatever else can be presented as a block device by the
kernel.
So mdadm is perfectly capable of assembling whole disk arrays, and it
does so for me for more than 10 years.

> but not sure how grub or whatever handle it when you boot off the
> drive.

GRUB2 can definitely boot from mdadm's RAID1 as it has an appropriate
module for this specific task. Installing GRUB2 on mdadm array made of
whole disks is tricky though.

UEFI itself, on the other hand - definitely can not, unless you resort
to some dirty hacks. After all, UEFI requires so-called "EFI System
Partition" aka ESP.

Reco

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 23 mar 21, 07:52:52, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-03-23 at 07:43, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
> > buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."
> > 
> > Here's a wiki page: 
> > However, I would not follow its advice literally.  You *never* want
> > to put the word "stable" in your sources.list.  You want to put the
> > actual name of a release instead.
> 
> That depends on what your update patterns are. It's probably generally
> good advice, but it's certainly not universal.

Agreed. I seem to remember some postings from users that had 'stable' on 
purpose in their sources.list.
 
> > So, wherever the wiki says to use stable-proposed-updates, please
> > use buster-proposed-updates instead.
> 
> This is generally reasonable, however. My update pattern is unlikely to
> be typical, and might be considered a special use-case.

Also, those who do have 'stable' in their APT package sources will know 
to use 'stable' for -updates and -proposed-updates as well, so the wiki 
should probably be changed.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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MATE desktop - changing icon of a Launcher

[Richard Owlett]

I've been use MATE almost since it came out.
IIRC I used to use a series of mouse clicks to determine the file name 
{including path} of the current icon.


On my current systems {one Stretch, one Buster} if I:
 1. right click on the Launcher
 2. select properties
 3. left click on the current icon

I get a "Select Custom Icon" menu. In it I can select a directory to 
search and it will display a list of available icons in that directory.


But I need to know the complete path to the current icon.
I can get the desired information by opening the launcher with a text 
editor. {I want a "mouse click" method to obtain the information as I'm 
setting up a system for a very novice user.}


Suggestions?
TIA

Re: mdadm and whole disk array members

[deloptes]

deloptes wrote:

> A friend told me that he found out it is a problem in some BIOSes with
> UEFI that can not handle a boot of md UEFI partition.
> Perhaps it also depends how they handle the raid of a whole disk.
> Are you trying to boot from that raid?

Forgot to ask what is in your /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf and the IDs of the disks

IMO the problem is that if it is not a partition the mdadm can not assemble
as it is looking for a partition, but not sure how grub or whatever handle
it when you boot off the drive.

Re: mdadm and whole disk array members

[deloptes]

Gary Dale wrote:

> It's not just me but a lot of other people have been having the same
> problem. It's been reported many times as I discovered after trying to
> use whole disks. Moreover, the fixes that I'd used in the past don't
> seem to work reliably without partitions.

A friend told me that he found out it is a problem in some BIOSes with UEFI
that can not handle a boot of md UEFI partition.
Perhaps it also depends how they handle the raid of a whole disk.
Are you trying to boot from that raid?

Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-03-23 at 07:43, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
> buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."
> 
> Here's a wiki page: 
> However, I would not follow its advice literally.  You *never* want
> to put the word "stable" in your sources.list.  You want to put the
> actual name of a release instead.

That depends on what your update patterns are. It's probably generally
good advice, but it's certainly not universal.

For myself, I have stable and testing in my sources.liist, and usually
update at least weekly if not daily. This is effectively updating
against testing, but keeps packages in stable which have been removed
from testing available to be installed if I want them.

When testing is released as stable and a new testing becomes available,
I lose access to the packages which were previously in stable (now
oldstable), which are old enough that it's probably not reasonable to
want to install them without specifically knowing that that's what
you're doing; I retain access to the packages previously in testing
(because they're now in stable, which is already in my sources.list); I
gain access to the new testing, to continue the pattern; and I do it all
without having to update sources.list for the purpose.

I don't see how that's unsafe or unreasonable; certainly I've been doing
it for years, I believe for over a decade, without encountering issues
which I think could even potentially be traced to it.

> So, wherever the wiki says to use stable-proposed-updates, please
> use buster-proposed-updates instead.

This is generally reasonable, however. My update pattern is unlikely to
be typical, and might be considered a special use-case.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Debian Stable Updates Announcement SUA 197-1

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 10:34:12PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 22 Mar 2021 at 17:26:14 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> > On 3/22/21 5:03 PM, Keith Wyatt wrote:
> > 
> > > As o[f]
> > > now it will include the following bug fixes. They can be found in "buster-
> > > proposed-updates", which is carried by all official mirrors.
> > 
> > Please provide a URL.
> 
> Do you mean for the .deb files themselves. AIUI they're in the
> pool with all the rest. As for the changes files, they're in
> 
> http://XX/debian/dists/buster-proposed-updates/
> 
> where XX is whatever you put in /etc/apt/sources.list
> as your local mirror.

I think the request was really "Please tell us how to use this
buster-proposed-updates thing, which I've never heard of before."

Here's a wiki page: 
However, I would not follow its advice literally.  You *never* want
to put the word "stable" in your sources.list.  You want to put the
actual name of a release instead.

So, wherever the wiki says to use stable-proposed-updates, please use
buster-proposed-updates instead.

Re: SERIOUSLY DANGEROUSLY OFF-TOPIC verb conjugation

[Curt]

On 2021-03-23,   wrote:
>
>
> And, oh, Weaver: either you have no clue or you are pulling our
> legs. Possibly both.
>

The uncritical ease with which it promotes its particularly narrow sentiments
to the broadness of general law is astounding.

Re: WiFi Hardware not detected, during Debian NetInst Install

[Kenneth Parker]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:03 AM Brian  wrote:

> On Mon 22 Mar 2021 at 20:26:47 -0400, Kenneth Parker wrote:
>
> > I think my best, followup is to state "how to recreate the problem"
>
> Indeed. I should not have offered the advice in that manner
> and tone. Aplologies.
>

Absolutely accepted.  No problem.

>
> --
> Brian.
>

Kenneth Parker

>

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Dan Ritter]

Victor Sudakov wrote: 
> Robbi Nespu wrote:
> > On 3/23/21 10:20 AM, Victor Sudakov wrote:
> > > Dear Colleagues,
> > > 
> > > What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
> > > (serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?
> > > 
> > > I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would
> > > just prefer some minimalistic hypervisor managed from the CLI. The
> > > ability to access the host's raw disk devices from the guest would be a
> > > great advantage.
> > > 
> > > Please don't just say "kvm" or any other single word but give a pointer
> > > to a good step-by-step document.
> > > 
> > 
> > I think qemu is fast and simple,
> > 
> > $ qemu-img create freebsd.img 4G
> > 
> > $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda freebsd.img -cdrom
> > FreeBSD-12.2-RELEASE-amd64-bootonly.iso -boot d -m 512
> > 
> > do the installation and then try boot it with
> > 
> > $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda freebsd.img -m 512
> 
> Really, a nice thing. Thank you. A couple of questions if you please:
> 
> 1. Does qemu use hardware virtualization (VT-d, whatever is in the CPU)?

If qemu-kvm is installed, yes, that will be the default. qemu
will fall back to emulation if a non-x86 guest is requested or
the CPU of the host is incapable.


> 2. Can qemu present the NIC and drives to the guest paravirtualized?
> FreeBSD understands VirtIO Block Adapter, VirtIO Ethernet and VMware
> VMXNET3 and some other paravirtualized devices.

Yes.

Most other tools for virtualization on Linux are built on top of
qemu/kvm, largely to expose features that qemu already has but
can required very long command lines, or to do management of
multiple VMs. The libvirtd infrastructure is probably the
simplest such management system. Although there is an X11 GUI
included with it, the command line tools can do everything.

Here's a typical non-libvirtd qemu/kvm invocation:

cd /var/spool/kvm
export VNAME=virtualmachinename
export CPUS=2
export RAM=4096
export MAC=00:15:f1:c1:a2:01
export VNC=:1
export IMAGE=/var/spool/kvm/images/$VNAME.img

kvm -m $RAM -smp $CPUS -name $VNAME -rtc base=utc -boot menu=on -drive 
file=$IMAGE,if=none,id=drive-virtio-disk0,boot=on,cache=writeback -device 
virtio-blk-pci,bus=pci.0,addr=0x4,drive=drive-virtio-disk0,id=virtio-disk0 
-device virtio-net-pci,vlan=0,id=net0,mac=$MAC,bus=pci.0,addr=0x3 -net
tap -usbdevice tablet -vnc $VNC &


libvirtd tooling is more comprehensive, but in the end gets
invoked with

virsh start virtualmachinename

-dsr-

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Victor Sudakov]

didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 23/03/2021 à 11:06, Victor Sudakov a écrit :
> 
> > My usecase would be, among other things, to access external media
> > attached to the host from inside the guest, e.g. those partitioned and
> > encrypted in FreeBSD-specific ways (geli encryption, gbde etc).
> 
> this link, albeit a little old should be of interest, concerning this
> scenario managed by kvm:
>  https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/USB_Host_Device_Assigned_to_Guest

Not as hardcore as USB passthrough, but
qemu -drive file=/dev/sdb 
should do the trick if I understand correctly.

> 
> [...]
> > In your opinion, what's the best,
> > simplest and most convenient CLI management tool around kvm?
> 
> Sorry, I use VirtManager (GUI) so I do not know but the kvm website has a
> list of management tools:
>  https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Management_Tools
> 
> 

Thank you!

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


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Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[didier gaumet]

Le 23/03/2021 à 10:54, Victor Sudakov a écrit :


1. Does qemu use hardware virtualization (VT-d, whatever is in the CPU)?


Yes, I think that basically, KVM requires it (and that Qemu does not)


2. Can qemu present the NIC and drives to the guest paravirtualized?
FreeBSD understands VirtIO Block Adapter, VirtIO Ethernet and VMware
VMXNET3 and some other paravirtualized devices.


there is an introduction to Virtio in kvm:
https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Virtio

and you can search for virtio on the qemu-system manpage:
https://helpmanual.io/man1/qemu-system/

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[didier gaumet]

Le 23/03/2021 à 11:06, Victor Sudakov a écrit :


My usecase would be, among other things, to access external media
attached to the host from inside the guest, e.g. those partitioned and
encrypted in FreeBSD-specific ways (geli encryption, gbde etc).


this link, albeit a little old should be of interest, concerning this 
scenario managed by kvm:

 https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/USB_Host_Device_Assigned_to_Guest

[...]

In your opinion, what's the best,
simplest and most convenient CLI management tool around kvm?


Sorry, I use VirtManager (GUI) so I do not know but the kvm website has 
a list of management tools:

 https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Management_Tools

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Victor Sudakov]

didier gaumet wrote:
> > 
> > What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
> > (serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?
> > 
> > I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would
> > just prefer some minimalistic hypervisor managed from the CLI. The
> > ability to access the host's raw disk devices from the guest would be a
> > great advantage.
> 
> - if your last sentance is correctly enounced, I do not understand your
> usecase 

My usecase would be, among other things, to access external media
attached to the host from inside the guest, e.g. those partitioned and
encrypted in FreeBSD-specific ways (geli encryption, gbde etc).

> nor did I know that it is possible

It is quite possible in bhyve (FreeBSD's hypervisor). You just tell the
hypervisor that this guest's disk is not a file but a device in /dev/.

> 
> > Please don't just say "kvm" or any other single word but give a pointer
> > to a good step-by-step document.
> 
> This one will probably do:
>  https://wiki.debian.org/SystemVirtualization
> (particularly the 3rd chapter "System Virtualization" if I understand your
> usecase)

This is a comprehensive document. In your opinion, what's the best,
simplest and most convenient CLI management tool around kvm?

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


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Re: WiFi Hardware not detected, during Debian NetInst Install

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Mar 2021 at 20:26:47 -0400, Kenneth Parker wrote:

> I think my best, followup is to state "how to recreate the problem"

Indeed. I should not have offered the advice in that manner
and tone. Aplologies.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[Victor Sudakov]

Robbi Nespu wrote:
> On 3/23/21 10:20 AM, Victor Sudakov wrote:
> > Dear Colleagues,
> > 
> > What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
> > (serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?
> > 
> > I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would
> > just prefer some minimalistic hypervisor managed from the CLI. The
> > ability to access the host's raw disk devices from the guest would be a
> > great advantage.
> > 
> > Please don't just say "kvm" or any other single word but give a pointer
> > to a good step-by-step document.
> > 
> 
> I think qemu is fast and simple,
> 
> $ qemu-img create freebsd.img 4G
> 
> $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda freebsd.img -cdrom
> FreeBSD-12.2-RELEASE-amd64-bootonly.iso -boot d -m 512
> 
> do the installation and then try boot it with
> 
> $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda freebsd.img -m 512

Really, a nice thing. Thank you. A couple of questions if you please:

1. Does qemu use hardware virtualization (VT-d, whatever is in the CPU)?

2. Can qemu present the NIC and drives to the guest paravirtualized?
FreeBSD understands VirtIO Block Adapter, VirtIO Ethernet and VMware
VMXNET3 and some other paravirtualized devices.

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


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Re: Cannot see update to recent linux kernel 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1 (from 5.10.13-1~bpo10+1)

[didier gaumet]

Hello

from what I understand:

- in Bullseye, as indicated in its webpage on the Debian packages 
website, the linux-image-5.10.0-4-amd64 binary package is built from the 
linux-signed-amd64 source package


- the purpose of Debian Backports is to provide to Stable users binary 
packages of sources from Testing (or rarely, Unstable) that are rebuilt 
against stable libraries. That a binary package is present in Testing 
deos not implie it is (or has to be) present in Backports


- Binary packages do not have necessarily the same name as the source 
they are built from


 :-)

Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[tomas]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 12:42:17AM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> On 3/22/21 7:20 PM, Victor Sudakov wrote:
> >Dear Colleagues,
> >
> >What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
> >(serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?
> >
> >I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would

[...]
  
> I have been using VirtualBox on Debian for the past several years.

Heh. Exactly what the OP *didn't* ask for :-)
[...]

> VirtualBox is a very professional product -- reliable, performant,

Thanks for the ad.

Note that VirtualBox is (in part) not free [1]. Some base "core"
is free, the "extension pack" (including usb > 1.1 support) isn't.

Cheers

[1] https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL

 - t


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Re: Cannot see update to recent linux kernel 5.10.19-1~bpo10+1 (from 5.10.13-1~bpo10+1)

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 22 mar 21, 18:53:54, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
> If I search https://packages.debian.org/source/testing/linux for those
> package names, I find linux-image-5.10.0-4-amd64-unsigned, but I do not
> find linux-image-5.10.0-4-amd64 itself - even though apt reports that it
> is, in fact, present.
> 
> This mismatch between what packages are listed on that page and what
> packages are actually in the repository is clearly a discrepancy, and is
> the core of what I am focusing on in my comments here to date.

See e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=886792

It seems to me packages.debian.org is unmaintained, in particular its 
search function has been unreliable to me and I've been using
'apt search', 'apt list' and 'rmadison' instead.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[didier gaumet]

Le 23/03/2021 à 03:20, Victor Sudakov a écrit :

Dear Colleagues,

What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
(serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?

I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would
just prefer some minimalistic hypervisor managed from the CLI. The
ability to access the host's raw disk devices from the guest would be a
great advantage.


- if your last sentance is correctly enounced, I do not understand your 
usecase nor did I know that it is possible
- if the matter is for a Linux host to access the raw filesystem of a 
FreeBSD guest, you probably need:
a) to choose a virtualization that proposes this raw option (for 
KVM/qemu I know that it is possible, for Virtualbox, I think so, too, 
and I do not know for the others)
b) to use ZFS instead of UFS in FreeBSD (UFS read acces in Linux is not 
very convenient and for write access you need (needed?) to rebuild the 
kernel and it is (was?) rather dangerous). I have never used ZFS, so 
take this with a grain of salt.



Please don't just say "kvm" or any other single word but give a pointer
to a good step-by-step document.


This one will probably do:
 https://wiki.debian.org/SystemVirtualization
(particularly the 3rd chapter "System Virtualization" if I understand 
your usecase)

Re: SERIOUSLY DANGEROUSLY OFF-TOPIC verb conjugation

[tomas]

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 01:41:42PM -0700, Weaver wrote:
> On 23-03-2021 06:06, deloptes wrote:
> > Weaver wrote:
> > 
> >> Not an easy language to learn, however, unless you already have Slavic
> >> roots.
> > 
> > You mean Chinese is easier than Russian and Russian is harder than French?
> > And I mean not only speaking, but also writing
> 
>  Yes, once you understand the structure of Mandarin, it's not hard to
> get on top of it.
> Russian is harder than French, but the French find it easier to learn
> than most, because they are already familiar with concepts such as verb
> conjugation, which they both share.

Therefore, Arabic and Latin (which also share verb conjugation) must
be a piece of cake for French people. As should be Spanish, Adyghe
and Ilocano. All of them conjugated! THIS MUST BE A CONSPIRACY!

Actually, Russian conjugations are pretty primitive, nothing like
French. The tricky part in Russian is verb aspects, something which
is quite unfamiliar to French (and most predominantly romance
languages) and more familiar to Germanic languages. Although this
pattern has been drowned in the lexicon in most of the latter.

Uh -- whatever.

C'm on, folks. This thread has been wrung out. Let it die.

And, oh, Weaver: either you have no clue or you are pulling our
legs. Possibly both.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Running a FreeBSD guest

[David Christensen]

On 3/22/21 7:20 PM, Victor Sudakov wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

What's the minimum software kit to run a couple of FreeBSD guests
(serial console, no graphics needed) on a Debian 10 host?

I don't need any fancy management GUI like that of VirtualBox, would
just prefer some minimalistic hypervisor managed from the CLI. The
ability to access the host's raw disk devices from the guest would be a
great advantage.

Please don't just say "kvm" or any other single word but give a pointer
to a good step-by-step document.



I have been using VirtualBox on Debian for the past several years.  My 
Debian 9 graphical workstation has VirtualBox 6.1 and is currently 
running a FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p4 guest for development.  It just works.



VirtualBox is a very professional product -- reliable, performant, well 
designed GUI and CLI, good documentation, etc..  Installation 
instructions are here:



https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/virtualbox/6.0/user/install-linux-host.html


I like that VirtualBox runs on the most common platforms -- Windows, 
macOS, Linux, and Solaris.  I  want this feature, in case I need to move 
a guest between platforms:



https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/virtualbox/6.0/user/hostossupport.html


I typically use the GUI, but there is a CLI that can do everything the 
GUI can do and more.  Or, you can install the headless version if you do 
not need or use graphics.



I have shared host directories with guests in the past:


https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/virtualbox/6.0/user/sharedfolders.html


VirtualBox can also share raw drives:


https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/virtualbox/6.0/admin/adv-storage-config.html


STFW "linux kvm vs. virtualbox 2021", this article made some interesting 
points:



https://linuxconfig.org/virtualization-solutions-on-linux-systems-kvm-and-virtualbox#h3-kvm-or-virtualbox


David