Re: moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[tomas]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 12:49:39PM -0700, Weaver wrote:
> On 20-08-2021 01:12, Steve McIntyre wrote:

[...]

> >   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
> >   behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
> 
> And who is it who determines what is `inappropriate'?

[...]

> > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
> > you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
> > source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
> 
> And, who is being abusive?

Communicating is Hard Work (TM). You know that perfectly well. There
is no absolute here. You know that, too. Thus, your two questions above
can only be rhethorical.

As such, they just divert attention from the issue here: everyone of
us has to genuinely try to do her best for the whole thing to succeed.

And that includes trying (mentally) to walk in each other's shoes.
This means that in this list, I won't do things I do at home, because
I've gained the insight that they hurt people here, my Sacred Free
Speech be damned. Easy as that. I do have other venues where I can
vent that at ease.

Same as I am not going to have a shit in the middle of the streets
whenever I feel the urge. There's toilets for that.

> Building strawmen to knock over does not qualify as cogent argument.

Steve's was no strawman. The fact that there's no "mathematical" answer
to your rhethorical questions doesn't mean that "inappropriate" and
"abusive" are void terms. They describe inter-human categories, and
as such are necessarily messy and dependent on some current rough
consensus. If that rough consensus in the current group doesn't suit
you, you're free to discuss it; if it feels to you like groupthink
or tyranny, that could be a sign that this isn't a group for you.
Who knows.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Buster to Bullseye upgrade problem

[David Wright]

On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 07:42:56 (+0100), Gareth Evans wrote:
> On Thu 19 Aug 2021, at 05:50, David Wright  wrote:
> > On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 04:00:04 (+0100), Gareth Evans wrote:
> > > On Wed 18 Aug 2021, at 23:33, piorunz  wrote:
> > > > On 18/08/2021 16:14, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > > > > Unpacking gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0:amd64 (1.18.4-3) ...
> > > > > [1mdpkg:[0m error processing archive 
> > > > > /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-Un4rDW/28-gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0_1.18.4-3_amd64.deb
> > > > >  (--unpack):
> > > > >   trying to overwrite 
> > > > > '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/GstTranscoder-1.0.typelib',
> > > > >  which is also in package pitivi 0.999-1+b1
> > > > > [1mdpkg-deb:[0m [1;31merror:[0m paste subprocess was killed by signal 
> > > > > (Broken pipe)
> > > >
> > > > IMO that's the source of your problem.
> > > > You have two packages fighting to overwrite the same file. You should
> > > > inspect them.
> > > > Are you sure they come from buster, not from foreign repository?
> > > 
> > > Apparently they are both from Buster.
> > 
> > I'm afraid not. You need to check the version numbers more carefully.
> 
> I meant the packages (gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0, pitivi) being upgraded, 
> rather than the versions replacing them, were both from Buster at the point 
> of the upgrade (weren't they?)

One might assume so, but only you can check that. There are two logs
of the upgrade. /var/log/apt/history.log (and its predecessors) shows
the command issued, followed by the packages affected, with the old
and new version numbers in parentheses. /var/log/apt/term.log (and its
predecessors) shows the various packages being unpacked and then set
up. Again, there are old and new version numbers. And it's all timestamped.

BTW I can't immediately see why you would have
gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0 installed in buster (as a dependency),
because the only package that depends on it is
libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-dev, and I can't find anything that
depends on that.

> On Bullseye now:
> 
> $ apt policy *gir*bad*
> gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0:
>   Installed: 1.18.4-3
>   Candidate: 1.18.4-3
>   Version table:
>  *** 1.18.4-3 500
> 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> 
> $ aptitude why gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0
> i   pitivi Depends gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0 (>= 1.18.0)
> 
> (having installed pitivi again after removing it before upgrading to see what 
> difference it made)
> 
> I don't understand what the problem is/was - 

To summarise,

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/GstTranscoder-1.0.typelib included
↓↙
↓

yes  buster0.999-1+b1pitivi
no   bullseye  2020.09.2-3   pitivi

no   buster1.14.4-1+deb10u2  gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0
yes  bullseye  1.18.4-3  gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0

pitivi/bullseye depends on gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0 (>= 1.18.0) so
it can't be installed while buster's gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0 is there.

pitivi/buster must be removed before gir1.2-gst-plugins-bad-1.0/bullseye
is installed, to avoid having two versions of that file.

> shouldn't apt just have handled this?

AFAIK, assuming that buster was up-to-date at the start of the
dist-upgrade, and there were no "foreign" packages etc.
(I don't know anything about apt-forktracer.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Watching a directory, was Re: how would you do this?

[David Wright]

On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 08:01:24 (-0400), songbird wrote:
> David Wright wrote:
> > On Wed 18 Aug 2021 at 20:55:12 (-0400), songbird wrote:
> >>   let's suppose you have a directory where there are
> >> various scripts, libraries, programs, data, etc.
> >> 
> >>   you want to know exactly which other scripts, libraries,
> >> etc. use them and to log each caller to know the name so
> >> it can be tracked down (location would be nice too, but 
> >> that could be found later if needed).
> >> 
> >>   i don't need to keep the information in a database as
> >> just having the log file will be enough.
> >> 
> >>   how would you do this?
> >> 
> >>   this isn't a homework assignment i'm just curious how
> >> easy or hard this would be to accomplish.
> >
> > Easy.
> >
> > $ inotifywait -m -e access --timefmt "%F %T" --format "%T %f" the-directory/
> >
> > To try it, just type in that line, using a sensible directory name.
> > (The package name to install first is inotify-tools.)
> >
> > Change the formats to taste. Pipe into a   while IFS=$'\n' read Filename ; 
> > do
> > loop if you want to do something with the output. See:
> >
> >   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg01494.html
> >
> > for a real script (waiting on close-writeable-file, rather than just
> > access) that I use a lot for stealing files from FireFox's cache
> > (~/.cache/mozilla/firefox/foo.bar.profile/cache2/entries/).
> 
>   thanks!  very interesting!  :)
> 
>   thank you to others who replied also.  :)
> 
>   i was wondering if there was a general tool available as on
> debian-devel they are talking about usr-merge and if there was a
> simple way to find out who's using /bin and such instead of 
> /usr/bin,

No, that's a different problem. My solution addresses a directory,
hence the change in Subject line. You'd have to dive deeper into
inotify and inotify_add_watch, to see whether you can specify the
inode of the /bin symlink separately from that for /usr/bin.

$ ls -Glidg /bin /usr/bin
12 lrwxrwxrwx 1 7 Apr  3  2020 /bin -> usr/bin
261634 drwxr-xr-x 2 69632 Aug 11 19:10 /usr/bin
$ 

> but also the idea of being able to set up a honeypot
> on your own system and see if any programs or processes you 
> haven't done yourself are accessing it.  might give you a
> warning of being hacked, but of course there are other things
> going on in a system which you expect to access things so it
> is an interesting way to find out what is happening...
> 
>   after many years and a lot of different things being set up
> i think it is a good idea to keep an eye on what is happening.
> especially with how things are going these days.

Cheers,
David.

Re: bbc script

[Greg Wooledge]

> On Thu, 19 Aug 2021, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > Also relevant: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/115

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 07:40:23PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I had a read of your wiki  article and think I almost understand it.  To
> the left of the parens there's a single letter in that calculator example.
> That I understand.  If you have a) add as part of the case statement is
> add in that partial case statement so when that selection is made add
> appears on the screen?  If so, I can improve what I've done.

The echo commands write the output to the terminal.  They control what
the user sees as the menu.

   echo "== Make your selection:"
   echo "a) add"
   echo "s) subtract"
   echo "m) multiply"
   echo "q) quit"

There's nothing complicated here.  That's the whole point.  You decide
what the user should see, then you write that to the terminal, using
echo, or printf, or cat and a here-doc, or whatever you like.

The case statement simply compares what the user typed to a bunch of
predefined strings.  You choose what those strings are.

  case $ch in
a) add; break;;
s) subtract; break;;
m) multiply; break;;
q) exit 0;;
*) echo "Unrecognized command.  Please try again.";;
  esac

Again, it's not complicated.  If the user types "a", then you run the
"add" command.  If the user types "s", you run the "subtract" command.
And so on.

If you wanted to allow the user to type either "a" or "ad" or "add" to
enter the addition menu, you could change the case statement to look
like this:

  case $ch in
a | ad | add) add; break;;

And so on.  It's your menu.  You define how it should work.

In this example, "add" is a function.  It's defined below the "main" menu
function, but it could be defined pretty much anywhere.

add() {

That's the start of the definition of "add".  I didn't include the
definitions of "subtract" and "multiply" because they're similar, and
you should be able to figure them out.  Of course, in your program,
you probably aren't going to prompt the user for numbers and then add
them.  You're going to do something entirely different.  So, again,
there's no point in writing a bunch of useless functions in this example.

The main points I'm trying to convey here are:

1) You don't need "select" to make a menu.  You can just use echo and read.

2) In fact, "select" locks you in to a specific form of menu with very
   little flexibility.  If you use echo and read, you can make your menu
   work however you like.  You can do a *better* menu.  (Hell, you could
   get all fancy and use whiptail or dialog if you want.)

3) If you have nested menus, it's useful for each menu to be in its own
   function.  The parent menu should call the appropriate function to
   transfer control to the next (child) menu.  The child menu's function
   should simply "return" (or fall off the end of the function) to transfer
   control back to the parent.  Don't explicitly *call* the parent again.

And please, don't overthink it.  This is really basic stuff.

Re: debian10/11 ssh from ipv6 address not in /etc/hosts.allow = sshd segfault segfault

[raf]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 04:25:34PM +, Andy Smith  
wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:17:05AM +1000, raf wrote:
> > I just noticed many many sshd segfaults listed in
> > /var/log/kern.log. There are two versions. They look
> > like this:
> > 
> >   sshd[1086]: segfault at 7fff615eaec8 ip
> >   7ff2a586f42f sp 7fff615eaed0 error 6 in
> >   libwrap.so.0.7.6[7ff2a586e000+5000]
> > 
> >   sshd[1094]: segfault at 7ffcd3ff6f08 ip
> >   7f18d4f5dac7 sp 7ffcd3ff6ed0 error 6 in
> >   libc-2.31.so[7f18d4f2a000+14b000]
> 
> I think you should report this as a bug against openssh source
> package and see if you get any assistance. As the segfaults happen
> inside libwrap and libc it could end up being a bug in either of
> those instead, or in how sshd uses them, but let's see.
>
> Using "reportbug openssh-server" is probably the easiest.

> Cheers,
> Andy

Thanks. I did that already. I just posted it to the list as well
in case it helped others while waiting for a fix.

cheers,
raf

Re: RTL8852 driver for Debian 11

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 18:27:42 -0400
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:

> I haven't found rtl8852 in the mainstream kernel.
> But I've found it on github
> https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89
> And it seems to have a debian package build file.
> So possibly someone already packaged it for Debian.

I have not checked for the kernel. I believe the realtek firmware
package supports it on Debian 11 (Bullseye), not on 10 (Buster).

root@grissom:~# apt-cache show firmware-realtek | grep 8852
  * Realtek RTL8852AU Bluetooth config (rtl_bt/rtl8852au_config.bin)
  * Realtek RTL8852AU Bluetooth firmware (rtl_bt/rtl8852au_fw.bin)
  * Realtek RTL8852A firmware, version v0.9.12.2 (rtw89/rtw8852a_fw.bin)
root@grissom:~# 


-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/


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Re: bbc script

[Jude DaShiell]

I had a read of your wiki  article and think I almost understand it.  To
the left of the parens there's a single letter in that calculator example.
That I understand.  If you have a) add as part of the case statement is
add in that partial case statement so when that selection is made add
appears on the screen?  If so, I can improve what I've done.


On Thu, 19 Aug 2021, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 08:25:10AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 19, 2021 04:59:19 AM Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > #!/usr/bin/env bash
> > > # file: bbc.sh
> > > PS3="Enter a number to Choose station: "
> > > select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
> > >  b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping 
> > > bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
> > > bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
> > > do
> > > case $REPLY in
> > > $REPLY==1)
> > >mpv
> >
> > I am not a bash expert (not even close), but I don't see where your 
> > selection
> > (in PS3) gets transferred to REPLY -- shouldn't that happen somewhere
> > explicitly?
>
> The "select" builtin command does it.  Read "help select" for the brief
> version of the documentation.  (The man page's section isn't much larger,
> though.)
>
> Also relevant: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/115
>
>

Re: RTL8852 driver for Debian 11

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-08-19 3:26 p.m., Intense Red wrote:
>This is for a new consumer-grade HP laptop which seems to be
(according to
> Windows) running a Realtek 8852 wireless connection (no standard
Ethernet jack
> on this laptop).
>
>Debian 11 doesn't seem to detect the wireless NIC.
>
>Does anyone know what driver is used for this?
>
I haven't found rtl8852 in the mainstream kernel.
But I've found it on github
https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89
And it seems to have a debian package build file.
So possibly someone already packaged it for Debian.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development




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Re: Pipewire for multiple users

[martin f krafft]

Regarding the following, written by "Lucio Crusca" on 2021-08-19 at 16:05 Uhr 
+0200:

lucio@t470:~ $ su - u
...
u@t470:~ $ pactl info 
Connection failure: Connection refused 
pa_context_connect() failed: Connection refused


Pulse and systemd need a dbus session, and `su` will not get you 
that. If you want to use either, you need to ensure that you're 
properly logged in as the user, or configure your system to set up 
the dbus session accordingly.


An easy way to do this is to use `ssh` with X-forwarding:

```
ssh -X u@localhost
```

and then try it again.

If that doesn't work, confirm that "u" can use Pulse when logged in 
with a regular desktop session, i.e. at the graphical login screen.


Hope this helps,

--
 .''`.   martin f. krafft  @martinkrafft
: :'  :  proud Debian developer
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduck
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"the problem with america is stupidity. i'm not saying there should

 be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take
 the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve
 itself?"
  -- seen on irc

Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]

[Brian]

On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 14:45:16 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> 
> 
> On 2021-08-19 2:18 p.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Steve McIntyre wrote:
>  This mailing list, like all
>  Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
>  list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
>  [...]
>    Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
>   behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
> 
>  If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
>  you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
>  source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
> > 
> > Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> >>> [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess
> >>> the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear.
> > 
> > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> >> Great for him, cheer if you feel like it.
> > 
> > Well then:
> > 
> > Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of
> > Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with
> > Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most
> > influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world.
> > 
> >   https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org
> >   https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre
> > 
> > 
> > Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title
> > of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer".
> > So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems
> > somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority.
> > 
> I misunderstood the message from Steve and have sent him a apologies (in
> private).
> 
> It wasn't my goal to provoke anyone here.
> 
> And I'd like to add, now that I know that he's been the one that got the
> hard job of working with Microsoft. Thank you Steve for you hard work
> and be assured that I'm sure you had hard time convincing Microsoft that
> it would be good that they help us so we can get secure boot. I remember
> using secure boot in 2009 so it's been a long time since all this
> started and at that time they were not much into open source.
> 
> Thank you Steve and sorry for taking your limited time.

A illustration of "collapse of stout party" comes to mind her :).

-- 
Brian.

Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:
> On 2021-08-19 11:58 a.m., Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> 
>> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:
>> 
>>> On 2021-08-19 11:12 a.m., Steve McIntyre wrote:
 wea...@riseup.net wrote:
> On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote:
>
 If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
 you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
 source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
> Strange to say it's not meant to be something that I'm related to, as he
> comment on a opinion I had and goes on to say that I'm trying to pass
> something as politically correct.
>
> Anyway kind of useless to have any type of explanation here. You'll all
> be more into telling your friends they are right and keeping this as if
> it's your own club house. And pushing away everything that is not in
> your line of view.
>
> I've known for long time that computer flavored mailing list we're
> mostly male oriented and that the respect for others was only existing
> in the view of "don't bother me".

You should probably have some cup of tea, go take some fresh air and
come back with a better state of mind.

With best regards,
--
PEB


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Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian])

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 07:27:17AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> I think the primary use case of debian-user-offtopic would be to
> have a place for people on debian-user to tell others to move
> their threads.

It is technically feasible of course. That's not the bit I'd have
doubts about.

One of the common defences of the abundance of off-topic posting
here is that with proper use of a mail client they are easy to
ignore. I would also suggest that with proper use of a mail client
one can set followups to another place, i.e. the off-topic place. In
such a way, an experienced mail sender could diverge into off-topic
land for one mail but the replies would come to the other place, for
that audience.

What I don't believe though, is there there is any will amongst the
most prolific posters to do this. I think that they have decided
they are entitled to post that stuff here and absent any actual
enforced rule change they will not stop doing so.

It sounds sensible and polite to move the conversation, *if* you
believe that the conversation doesn't belong on debian-user. If you
don't believe that then one person's "sensible and polite" becomes
another's "unacceptably controlling and politically correct attempt
to destroy the community",

So I see a separate off-topic list as doomed to go the same way as
the previous effort, because hardly anyone will use it. I see it as
an easier task to get the support traffic off debian-user to a place
where it can be handled alone, than it would be at this point to get
the off-topic posts off of debian-user.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: bullseye: systemd-networkd-wait-online timeouts

[Andy Smith]

Hi Jochen,

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 09:36:30PM +0200, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Aug 18 10:59:20 h2907737 systemd-networkd-wait-online[936688]: Event loop 
> failed: Connection timed out
> Aug 18 10:59:20 h2907737 apt-helper[936686]: E: Sub-process 
> /lib/systemd/systemd-networkd-wait-online returned an error code (1)
> 
> For some reason systemd does not (fully?) recognize that the system is
> online.

I don't know yet about bullseye but in buster systemd does assume
that you are online when using ifupdown unless you enable the
"ifupdown-wait-online" service, which actually waits for every
interface marked auto be be ready before allowing "network-online"
target to be reached.

Is that service enabled? If you disable it, what happens? I expect
systemd to assume it is online.

Also are you absolutely sure that you aren't using systemd-networkd
and/or NetworkManager and there isn't any .link files for systemd
anywhere, that it's purely ifupdown?

May be worth asking your hosting provider as well because uf they
are mandating how your /etc/network/interfaces looks (and its use)
then they need to know how to make it play nice with systemd in
Debian 11.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: RTL8852 driver for Debian 11

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-08-19 3:26 p.m., Intense Red wrote:
>This is for a new consumer-grade HP laptop which seems to be (according to 
> Windows) running a Realtek 8852 wireless connection (no standard Ethernet 
> jack 
> on this laptop).
> 
>Debian 11 doesn't seem to detect the wireless NIC.
> 
Have you tried using the install CD with the firmware ?
Or simply installing *firmware-realtek* in the non-free repository ?

https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware


If your wifi card is supported ?
https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers

>Does anyone know what driver is used for this?
> 
Driver is rtl8852 and you need *firmware-realtek*

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[Weaver]

On 20-08-2021 01:12, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> wea...@riseup.net wrote:
>>On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote:
>>> Andrew, i thought you r moderator because you post monthly list guideline
>>>
>>> and you speak kindly with some authority when some list user deviate
>>
>>By reputation, the list is unmoderated, and that's the way it used to
>>be.
>>It still bears the token title of an unmoderated list but, in reality, a
>>small collective of the politically correct have placed it under their
>>auspices to moderate it. They have all the rationale, they believe, to
>>do so, but this is quite in contradiction with the principles of open
>>source, so it's an interesting phenomenon to observe.
> 
> For the avoidance of doubt...
> 
> The debian-user list may be listed as "not moderated", but that just
> means that posting is open by default. This mailing list, like all
> Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
> list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
> 
> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
> 
> As Andrew points out in his excellent and helpful regular posting:
> 
>   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
>   behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

And who is it who determines what is `inappropriate'?

 
> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.

And, who is being abusive?
Building strawmen to knock over does not qualify as cogent argument.
Cheers!

Harry.

-- 
`Unthinking respect for authority is 
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein

RTL8852 driver for Debian 11

[Intense Red]

   This is for a new consumer-grade HP laptop which seems to be (according to 
Windows) running a Realtek 8852 wireless connection (no standard Ethernet jack 
on this laptop).

   Debian 11 doesn't seem to detect the wireless NIC.

   Does anyone know what driver is used for this?

-- 
"The world's 500 richest people have more money than the annual earnings of 
the poorest 3 billion." -- George Monbiot.

Re: Typical timescales for publishing binary packages in -backports?

[Brian]

On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 16:16:01 +, Andy Smith wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I notice that yesterday there's been an acceptance email for source
> package linux-signed-amd64 version 5.10.46+4~bpo10+1 in
> buster-backports:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2021/08/msg00139.html
> 
> Previously there had also been one for version 5.10.46+3~bpo10+1.
> 
> Yet as of today there seems to only be binary packages built from
> version 5.10.46+2~bpo10+1:
> 
> $ apt show linux-image-amd64/buster-backports
> Package: linux-image-amd64
> Version: 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1
> Built-Using: linux (= 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1)
> Priority: optional
> Section: kernel
> Source: linux-signed-amd64 (5.10.46+2~bpo10+1)
> 
> This is from back in July sometime.
> 
> So I was wondering what is the typical timescale for binary packages
> from the kernel source upload to appear in buster-backports?

I do not think there is a typical timescale. -backports is by special
effort for any of its packages. Perhaps "soon" is the best that can be
predicted.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Debian 11 installer crashed and reboot

[Andy Smith]

Hi Chuck,

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 08:04:43AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> After some testing of the Debian 11 installer on Xen
> (using the debian-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso), I find that
> this image only supports installation into a Xen PV guest,
> the guest always crashes and reboots for either a BIOS
> or OVMF boot into an HVM Xen guest.

Could you report this to Debian's Xen team as a bug? Perhaps it is
as simple as needing different kernel options in the netinst
installer kernel given that the full install works under HVM?

The Debian Xen team is very under-resourced for human help and it
has been a long time since they have managed to keep the version in
stable to a recent and supported one upstream. If you run a Xen dom0
on Debian I think really you need to be building your own packages
or using the Debian Xen team's packages from sid.

The stable packaged 4.11 hypervisor is out of even security support
upstream so it's not really suitable for production use. I don't
think the Debian Xen team would recommend using it but would instead
suggest using their newer package that;s in sid (on stable) and
test/report bigs against that. But let's get this reported.

I'm not skilled enough in Debian package building to help the team
but I do still report bigs sometimes; for production use I am
building packages from newer upstream source.

For this problem I can't help as I don't run HVM guests (only PV and
PVH).

The Debian Xen team mailing list is at:
https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-xen-devel

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 2:18 p.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Steve McIntyre wrote:
 This mailing list, like all
 Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
 list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
 [...]
   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
  behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

 If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
 you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
 source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
> 
> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>>> [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess
>>> the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear.
> 
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> Great for him, cheer if you feel like it.
> 
> Well then:
> 
> Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of
> Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with
> Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most
> influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world.
> 
>   https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org
>   https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre
> 
> 
> Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title
> of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer".
> So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems
> somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority.
> 
I misunderstood the message from Steve and have sent him a apologies (in
private).

It wasn't my goal to provoke anyone here.

And I'd like to add, now that I know that he's been the one that got the
hard job of working with Microsoft. Thank you Steve for you hard work
and be assured that I'm sure you had hard time convincing Microsoft that
it would be good that they help us so we can get secure boot. I remember
using secure boot in 2009 so it's been a long time since all this
started and at that time they were not much into open source.

Thank you Steve and sorry for taking your limited time.
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 08:18:50PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > > > This mailing list, like all
> > > > Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
> > > > list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
> > > > [...]
> > > >   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
> > > >  behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
> > > >
> > > > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
> > > > you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
> > > > source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
> 
> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> > > [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess
> > > the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear.
> 
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Great for him, cheer if you feel like it.
> 
> Well then:
> 
> Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of
> Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with
> Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most
> influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world.
> 
>   https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org
>   https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre
> 
> 
> Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title
> of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer".
> So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems
> somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
> 

People,

There's a lot of sniping back and forward, flaming and general bad behaviour.
Various people have asked nicely, put forward polite comments and suggested
constructive ways forward. I've written to the list: Steve has also been
constrained to weigh in.

However exasperated any individual may be, however tempting it is to pile
in with a sarcastic comment: stop now, enough.

The state of this particular list in the last fortnight or so has not
been an example for anyone. The mega threads have effectively become unreadable.
As previously, I'm not going to single out individuals on list - many of
you know and recognise significantly better standards of mailing list
behaviour than you may yourselves have shown in the past couple of weeks. 
Follow them.

As ever, this list remains subject to the Debian Code of Conduct and the
Debian mailing list code of conduct. 

Can we get back to providing support for users, new and old, and something
good and worthwhile in the way we communicate with each other?

Respect goes upwards downwards and sideways from an individual: it may
have to be earned over time: it can surely be lost in an instant.

Regards

Andy Cater

[For the Community Team]

Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > > This mailing list, like all
> > > Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
> > > list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
> > > [...]
> > >   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
> > >  behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
> > >
> > > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
> > > you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
> > > source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.

Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> > [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess
> > the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear.

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Great for him, cheer if you feel like it.

Well then:

Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of
Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with
Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most
influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world.

  https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org
  https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre


Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title
of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer".
So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems
somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian 11 Live USB with persistence?

[Stefan Monnier]

to...@tuxteam.de [2021-08-19 09:11:00] wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 10:24:27PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> > I wanted to do something exactly like that some months ago.
>> > What I ended up doing is using a normal Debian installation
>> > with an overlay file system mounted over the root.
>> FWIW, you can do simpler and just use a normal Debian install on
>> a USB key.  That saves the trouble of the overlay filesystem.
>> And if you want to be able to revert easily to the initial state, then
>> you can probably get a similar result using an LVM snapshot.
> There's still some charm to Santiago's approach: the device is (nearly?)
> read-only after install.

I'm not sure I see the difference: the LVM snapshot can also be tagged
as read-only.

In both cases (LVM snapshot or overlayfs) the overall system is not
read-only.  That's of course indispensable for the "persistence"
property, but it's also a disadvantage compared to a Debian Live system
in that the /var subtree will sometimes be modified "gratuitously".

[ I usually try to reduce this aspect by using a tmpfs for /var/cache
  and also by moving /var/lib/apt/lists to /var/cache (with a symlink),
  but there are various files that can get written depending on the
  packages you have installed.  ]


Stefan

Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 11:58 a.m., Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> 
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:
> 
>> On 2021-08-19 11:12 a.m., Steve McIntyre wrote:
>>> wea...@riseup.net wrote:
 On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote:

>>> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
>>> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
>>> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
Strange to say it's not meant to be something that I'm related to, as he
comment on a opinion I had and goes on to say that I'm trying to pass
something as politically correct.

Anyway kind of useless to have any type of explanation here. You'll all
be more into telling your friends they are right and keeping this as if
it's your own club house. And pushing away everything that is not in
your line of view.

I've known for long time that computer flavored mailing list we're
mostly male oriented and that the respect for others was only existing
in the view of "don't bother me".
> 
> As Steve did not send this mail to you, I would not take it personally.
> 
> And even though it were, Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess
> the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear.
> 
Great for him, cheer if you feel like it.
If mine wasn't clear enough, now it is.

Leave alone the newbies if you can't be kind and full of comprehension
for them.

In case it was missed...

The world has changed and so does the user on this list. Some people may
say "I've been on this list for 20 years, was better before". Yes it was
different before but those are changes that goes with the fact that now
Linux is more democratic. Some distribution made good publicity (I think
of Ubuntu) and this made more people start using Linux, even ones that
weren't system admins or that weren't forced to use a Unix/Linux system
to run some specific application or services. And Debian itself got
easier to use, with a widespread support for most common hardware on the
x86/x64 platform.
Wasn't the goal of all this to get new users to Debian ? Don't we want
as much user as possible to use Debian ? So that they can also test the
software we all use and give us feedback, even discover bugs that didn't
pop up at us ?
We can't expect all those new users to be Cisco certified network
administrator or to have a master degree in computer science, being able
to write in assembly language, C/C++/Fortran and some Lisp too. We have
to accept those new users and remember that we also asked question that
seem stupid for others and we also asked question that the answer we're
in the first page of the manual.
If we can look at ourselves and that's not something that everyone seems
able to do. Or we can join the club of all the people nostalgic of the
soviet union and the 1970s and dream of the cold war but if we do so
then we must also go back using a 1200 baud modem and a teletype.
If we can't be kind then we must abstain.

> Regards,
> --
> PEB
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: bbc script

[Jude DaShiell]

Thanks to all who have replied.  It turns out too much code was on case
statement and once I cleared that the script now works as expected.
Here's the working version:

#!/usr/bin/env bash
# file: bbc.sh
PS3="Enter a number to Choose station: "
select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
   b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping 
bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
do
case $REPLY in
1)
 mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_one.pls
 ;;

 2)
mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_1xtra.pls
;;

  3)
 mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_two.pls
 ;;

   4)
  mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_three.pls
  ;;

5)
   mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_fourfm.pls
   ;;

 6)
mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_fourlw.pls
;;

  7)
 mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_radio_four_extra
 ;;


   8)

  mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_radio_five_live_online_nonuk

  ;;


  9)

 mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_6music

 ;;


 10)

 mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_world_service

 ;;


 11)

 exit 0

 ;;




 esac

 done


On Thu, 19 Aug 2021, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
> >b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping
> > bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
> > bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
> > do
> > case $REPLY in
> >$REPLY==1)
>
> man bash says about "case" that before ")" are patterns which are tested
> whether they match.
> So the text snippet "$REPLY==" before "1)" looks wrong.
>
> This litle experiment works for me:
>
>   select station in AAA BB CC quit
>   do
> echo $REPLY
> case $REPLY in
>1) echo aaa
>   ;;
>2) echo bb
>   ;;
>3) echo cc
>   ;;
>4) break
>   ;;
>  esac
>   done
>
> (As C programmer i am more into "if"-"elif"-chains than into "case", though.)
>
>

Re: debian10/11 ssh from ipv6 address not in /etc/hosts.allow = sshd segfault segfault

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:17:05AM +1000, raf wrote:
> I just noticed many many sshd segfaults listed in
> /var/log/kern.log. There are two versions. They look
> like this:
> 
>   sshd[1086]: segfault at 7fff615eaec8 ip
>   7ff2a586f42f sp 7fff615eaed0 error 6 in
>   libwrap.so.0.7.6[7ff2a586e000+5000]
> 
>   sshd[1094]: segfault at 7ffcd3ff6f08 ip
>   7f18d4f5dac7 sp 7ffcd3ff6ed0 error 6 in
>   libc-2.31.so[7f18d4f2a000+14b000]

I think you should report this as a bug against openssh source
package and see if you get any assistance. As the segfaults happen
inside libwrap and libc it could end up being a bug in either of
those instead, or in how sshd uses them, but let's see.

Using "reportbug openssh-server" is probably the easiest.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[Steve McIntyre]

Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>
>As Steve did not send this mail to you, I would not take it personally.

Exactly, thanks.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"We're the technical experts.  We were hired so that management could
 ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs."  -- Mike Andrews

Typical timescales for publishing binary packages in -backports?

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

I notice that yesterday there's been an acceptance email for source
package linux-signed-amd64 version 5.10.46+4~bpo10+1 in
buster-backports:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2021/08/msg00139.html

Previously there had also been one for version 5.10.46+3~bpo10+1.

Yet as of today there seems to only be binary packages built from
version 5.10.46+2~bpo10+1:

$ apt show linux-image-amd64/buster-backports
Package: linux-image-amd64
Version: 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1
Built-Using: linux (= 5.10.46-2~bpo10+1)
Priority: optional
Section: kernel
Source: linux-signed-amd64 (5.10.46+2~bpo10+1)

This is from back in July sometime.

So I was wondering what is the typical timescale for binary packages
from the kernel source upload to appear in buster-backports?

I am aware that I can build the binary packages myself if I want
them sooner. It looks like I could also install the package from sid
or bookworm:

https://packages.debian.org/sid/linux-image-amd64

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:

> On 2021-08-19 11:12 a.m., Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> wea...@riseup.net wrote:
>>> On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote:
 Andrew, i thought you r moderator because you post monthly list guideline

 and you speak kindly with some authority when some list user deviate
>>>
>>> By reputation, the list is unmoderated, and that's the way it used to
>>> be.
>>> It still bears the token title of an unmoderated list but, in reality, a
>>> small collective of the politically correct have placed it under their
>>> auspices to moderate it. They have all the rationale, they believe, to
>>> do so, but this is quite in contradiction with the principles of open
>>> source, so it's an interesting phenomenon to observe.
>> 
>> For the avoidance of doubt...
>> 
>> The debian-user list may be listed as "not moderated", but that just
>> means that posting is open by default. This mailing list, like all
>> Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
>> list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
>> 
>> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
>> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
>> 
>> As Andrew points out in his excellent and helpful regular posting:
>> 
>>   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
>>   behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
>> 
>> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
>> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
>> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
> I don't know what you are trying to pass as message here. But I never
> said that open source is a pass to being abusive toward others.
> I've always pushed toward kindness and understanding as much possible.
> What I said was that as this list is "unmoderated" this means that it is
> open for posting to everyone. So yes this cause a possibility of higher
> than other list for message going off-topic.
> What I advocate and will continue to do so is going against the type of
> self appointed policing who take a pleasure of pointing others crossing
> of their interpretation of what they consider being the rules.
> There's a excellent judgement from the European High Court called the
> "TaxQuest ruling" that state the most important part of the decision is
> the motivation behind it.
> So when you simply tell a new comer "You do this wrong" and don't
> explain why then this is just not helpful and far from being what a
> welcoming community would do.
> If there's a rule of law that state "No one shall ignore the law" and
> still people seems to ignore some interpretation of the rules edict for
> our society, this also applies to this mailing list where not all the
> users read the FAQ, code of conduct and all that is related. And even if
> they did read all of this before subscribing, they'll forgot part of it
> and feel bloated.
> So if you are expecting to pass a message of the type that I'm trying to
> justify messages that you consider off-topic and making them politically
> correct. No this is not the case, even if I can do nothing for your own
> belief.
> Because in all conversation, there will always be moment where the
> simple social act of exchanging information will make us leave the main
> context and go aside. This is also what make us human being, with
> emotions and a need to socialize. Probably the ones who have a social
> life other than behind a keyboard will understand, for others then just
> hold to the belief.

As Steve did not send this mail to you, I would not take it personally.

And even though it were, Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess
the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear.

Regards,
--
PEB


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye

[Curt]

On 2021-08-18, Tixy  wrote:
>> 
>> With a normal system, a shortened version of the upgrade procedure
>> without the warnings and pre-checks and post-checks might be OK,
>> but this is *Gene*.  We know he does not have normal systems.
>> 
>> He needs *all* of the warnings.
>> 
>
> I agree with all of the above, but as the saying goes: 'you can lead a
> horse to water, but you can't make him drink'.
>

Don't you mean you can lead a girl to Vassar, but you can't make her
think?

Re: moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 11:12 a.m., Steve McIntyre wrote:
> wea...@riseup.net wrote:
>> On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote:
>>> Andrew, i thought you r moderator because you post monthly list guideline
>>>
>>> and you speak kindly with some authority when some list user deviate
>>
>> By reputation, the list is unmoderated, and that's the way it used to
>> be.
>> It still bears the token title of an unmoderated list but, in reality, a
>> small collective of the politically correct have placed it under their
>> auspices to moderate it. They have all the rationale, they believe, to
>> do so, but this is quite in contradiction with the principles of open
>> source, so it's an interesting phenomenon to observe.
> 
> For the avoidance of doubt...
> 
> The debian-user list may be listed as "not moderated", but that just
> means that posting is open by default. This mailing list, like all
> Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
> list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:
> 
> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
> 
> As Andrew points out in his excellent and helpful regular posting:
> 
>   Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
>   behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
> 
> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.
I don't know what you are trying to pass as message here. But I never
said that open source is a pass to being abusive toward others.
I've always pushed toward kindness and understanding as much possible.
What I said was that as this list is "unmoderated" this means that it is
open for posting to everyone. So yes this cause a possibility of higher
than other list for message going off-topic.
What I advocate and will continue to do so is going against the type of
self appointed policing who take a pleasure of pointing others crossing
of their interpretation of what they consider being the rules.
There's a excellent judgement from the European High Court called the
"TaxQuest ruling" that state the most important part of the decision is
the motivation behind it.
So when you simply tell a new comer "You do this wrong" and don't
explain why then this is just not helpful and far from being what a
welcoming community would do.
If there's a rule of law that state "No one shall ignore the law" and
still people seems to ignore some interpretation of the rules edict for
our society, this also applies to this mailing list where not all the
users read the FAQ, code of conduct and all that is related. And even if
they did read all of this before subscribing, they'll forgot part of it
and feel bloated.
So if you are expecting to pass a message of the type that I'm trying to
justify messages that you consider off-topic and making them politically
correct. No this is not the case, even if I can do nothing for your own
belief.
Because in all conversation, there will always be moment where the
simple social act of exchanging information will make us leave the main
context and go aside. This is also what make us human being, with
emotions and a need to socialize. Probably the ones who have a social
life other than behind a keyboard will understand, for others then just
hold to the belief.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[Steve McIntyre]

wea...@riseup.net wrote:
>On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote:
>> Andrew, i thought you r moderator because you post monthly list guideline
>> 
>> and you speak kindly with some authority when some list user deviate
>
>By reputation, the list is unmoderated, and that's the way it used to
>be.
>It still bears the token title of an unmoderated list but, in reality, a
>small collective of the politically correct have placed it under their
>auspices to moderate it. They have all the rationale, they believe, to
>do so, but this is quite in contradiction with the principles of open
>source, so it's an interesting phenomenon to observe.

For the avoidance of doubt...

The debian-user list may be listed as "not moderated", but that just
means that posting is open by default. This mailing list, like all
Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing
list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct:

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

As Andrew points out in his excellent and helpful regular posting:

  Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
  behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think
you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open
source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"We're the technical experts.  We were hired so that management could
 ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs."  -- Mike Andrews

Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian])

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 9:04 a.m., Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-08-19 at 07:23 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>> I've been subscribed to this list for a long time and I've seen a
>> change in how it is being used, which I think is harmful to its core
>> purpose
> 
> 100% agree.  I'm another long time subscriber here and this is just
> bonkers lately.  The noise has surpassed the signal for at least the
> last 6 months.  Trying times perhaps, but geeze this is not a good image
> to present to new Debian users.
I totally agree but can't say for the six months as I've been on the
list for only 4 months. One thing I can agree is that it sends a bad
image to new Debian users, even more when we tell  them rudely that they
are going against a specific rule.
Not everyone will take the time to read the FAQ and guidelines entirely
before subscribing. In a ideal world, we'd all read the guidelines, FAQ
and all the documents before joining this list. But it's not what's
happening and it will never be.
Still, this doesn't justify being rude or lacking consideration for new
comers. I've been on mailing list before but that was 10 years ago and
those we're only local ones we created for the university. Some rules
developed by itself.
So when someone told be in a really direct manner and without more
explanation "no top posting", I didn't really understand what he meant
until I did a search for the term. I understood easily what it was,
because we had this rule but hadn't named it, we just explained it.
Yes it's easier when someone ask about "Devuan" to tell him in a quick
say "Go away", but is this really helpful ? I doubt...
What does it take as a time to explain why it may not be the best place
for this question ain't that much. Because this person asked the
question in good faith and we have to respect him. It may be a nice
acronym RTFM but it's far from being polite.
The world has changed and so does the user on this list. Some people may
say "I've been on this list for 20 years, was better before". Yes it was
different before but those are changes that goes with the fact that now
Linux is more democratic. Some distribution made good publicity (I think
of Ubuntu) and this made more people start using Linux, even ones that
weren't system admins or that weren't forced to use a Unix/Linux system
to run some specific application or services. And Debian itself got
easier to use, with a widespread support for most common hardware on the
x86/x64 platform.
Wasn't the goal of all this to get new users to Debian ? Don't we want
as much user as possible to use Debian ? So that they can also test the
software we all use and give us feedback, even discover bugs that didn't
pop up at us ?
We can't expect all those new users to be Cisco certified network
administrator or to have a master degree in computer science, being able
to write in assembly language, C/C++/Fortran and some Lisp too. We have
to accept those new users and remember that we also asked question that
seem stupid for others and we also asked question that the answer we're
in the first page of the manual.
If we can look at ourselves and that's not something that everyone seems
able to do. Or we can join the club of all the people nostalgic of the
soviet union and the 1970s and dream of the cold war but if we do so
then we must also go back using a 1200 baud modem and a teletype.
> 
> -Jim P.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Pipewire for multiple users

[Lucio Crusca]

I'm on Debian bookworm/sid. Until a few days ago I had Pipewire 0.3.32 
from experimental and it used to work for both of the users I have in my 
system as a PulseAudio drop in replacement (thanks to 
pipewire-audio-client-libraries package). Then I accidentally removed it 
and reinstalled it, but 0.3.33 is available now and it works only for 
one of my users (namely "lucio"). For the other user (namely "u") I only 
get:


lucio@t470:~ $ su - u
...
u@t470:~ $ pactl info
Connection failure: Connection refused
pa_context_connect() failed: Connection refused

and user "u" gets no sound. I've also tried logging in as "u" from 
lightdm instead of the terminal, but I get the same results.


With 0.3.32 I had this configuration in 
/etc/pipewire/pipewire-pulse.conf, in order to let other users play sounds:


[...]
context.modules = [
[...]
{   name = libpipewire-module-protocol-pulse
args = {
server.address = [
"unix:native"
"tcp:4713"
]


That file is still there on my system, because it was there for the 
0.3.32 version and no one deleted it, but when I tried to follow these 
steps [1] again, hoping to fix the problem, I noticed that 0.3.33 does 
not bundle example configuration files anymore, or, at least, they are 
not in the directory specified by the documentation anymore. So I 
suspect something changed between 0.3.32 and 0.3.33 as far as the 
configuration is concerned, but I'm not sure.


Please also note that "u" user not only lacks a functioning PA 
replacement, but even ALSA and JACK replacements are not working anymore.


The systemctl command for the "u" user bails out with

Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory

but I'm not sure I actually need to execute systemctl commands for the 
"u" user while running "inside" the "lucio" session (xhost +)... I seem 
to recall it used to work without them, just with the "tcp:4713" config 
in place, but things may have changed with the new release, so I thought 
it could be useful to add this piece of information.


Any thoughts?

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire

Re: bullseye: systemd-networkd-wait-online timeouts

[Jochen Spieker]

Charles Curley:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 21:36:30 +0200
> Jochen Spieker  wrote:
> 
>> Is there anything I can do about this without changing
>> /etc/network/interfaces? As far as I understand, I cannot switch to
>> systemd network configuration as long as the interfaces file exists.
> 
> Can you get anywhere by editing the template?

I do not have access to the template. It does not exist on my VM and I
assume it only exists in the hosting provider's infrastructure.

> Also, this interfaces file assigns address 127.0.0.1 to the interface
> venet0. Since that block (127.0.0.0/8, I believe) is reserved for the
> loopback device (interface lo), and is assigned automatically to lo,
> this setup is assigning 127.0.0.1 to both lo and venet:0. And that
> strikes me as a recipe for problems.

I totally agree and I have no idea why they are doing it this way. I
still would like to know why systemd does not recognize that the
interface configuration using ifupdown was successful and the the system
actually is online.

J.
-- 
Tony Blair is a hypnotised self-seeking scarecrow just like all the
rest.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: bbc script

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
>  I don't see where your selection (in PS3) gets transferred to REPLY

REPLY is filled by bash command "select".
man bash says:

  select name [ in word ] ; do list ; done
 [...]
 The  PS3 prompt is then displayed and a line read from the
 standard input.
 [...]
 The  line  read  is saved  in  the  variable REPLY.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian])

[Jim Popovitch]

On Thu, 2021-08-19 at 07:23 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> I've been subscribed to this list for a long time and I've seen a
> change in how it is being used, which I think is harmful to its core
> purpose

100% agree.  I'm another long time subscriber here and this is just
bonkers lately.  The noise has surpassed the signal for at least the
last 6 months.  Trying times perhaps, but geeze this is not a good image
to present to new Debian users.

-Jim P.

Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

[songbird]

rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
...
> Aside: I have never (to the best of my recollection) done an upgrade from one 
> version to the next, I install the new version on a clean disk (or new 
> system) 
> -- the only time I could envision doing an upgrade would be if stable became 
> a 
> rolling release.

  running testing is pretty much like running a rolling release.
except of course, when it is frozen at times.

  because i've also got a different stable partition which is
only updated after point releases i don't mind risking the
once in a while snafu that i have to work through.

  my morning routine is to watch what comes through in the
package updates and set some aside if i think they might be
too intrusive and i'm in the middle of something else.

  this is more than most people probably want to do but i
don't mind it - it keeps me in tune with what is changing.  :)


  songbird

Re: how would you do this?

[songbird]

Jeremy Ardley wrote:
..
> Selinux has a lot of the hooks to do this - in permissive mode of course =
>
> - but I don't think it can identify the calling script without you going =
>
> to great lengths to tag files.

  right, i'm aware of the existence of Selinux, but have not 
looked into it further.


  songbird

Re: font-colour on a bullseye desktop: (too) white

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 02:22:23PM +0200, steef van duin wrote:
> i am sorry. it is a long time i was mailing to this list for help
> 
> 
> OK.  Now we know which terminal you use, and this*probably*  also means
> you're running XFCE as your desktop environment.  That will be useful
> information for the thread back on the mailing list.
> 
> yes, that is right  i am using xfce, last version

This was after steef accidentally replied to me privately.  I asked
them to please reply to the list instead.

One of the other details they said in their private message was that
they're not interested in changing the terminal fonts.  They want to
change the "fonts under the little pictures on the desktop".

Those "little pictures" are called icons, so we can try this search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=xfce4%20change%20icon%20font%20color

I got these results as my first two:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/233483/change-xfce-desktop-font-color

https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=6553

Re: how would you do this?

[songbird]

Roberto C  Sánchez wrote:
...
> It sounds like you want something like like incrond, which gives you
> user-space hooks into the inotify kernel subsystem.  I have used it, for
> instance, for protecting artifacts published to a develpment archive
> server.  I use incron to monitor the directories where artifacts can be
> uploaded, and as soon as an upload is completed, then incron invokes a
> call to 'chattr +i' to make the new file immutable and thus protect it
> from being overwritten by a subsequent upload or deletion.
>
> Because it can also simply log accesses, reads, etc., it will probably
> do exactly what you want.


  thanks!  very useful to know.  :)


  songbird

Re: bbc script

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 08:25:10AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 04:59:19 AM Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > #!/usr/bin/env bash
> > # file: bbc.sh
> > PS3="Enter a number to Choose station: "
> > select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
> >b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping 
> > bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
> > bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
> > do
> > case $REPLY in
> > $REPLY==1)
> >  mpv
> 
> I am not a bash expert (not even close), but I don't see where your selection 
> (in PS3) gets transferred to REPLY -- shouldn't that happen somewhere 
> explicitly?

The "select" builtin command does it.  Read "help select" for the brief
version of the documentation.  (The man page's section isn't much larger,
though.)

Also relevant: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/115

Re: how would you do this?

[songbird]

Cindy Sue Causey wrote:
...
> I don't have an answer. I just wanted to say I wasn't thinking of
> school work as I read this. I was thinking more like... paranoia, lol!
>
> Not in a "bad" way but in a system protecting way. With everything
> that's going on about hacking and cracking, knowing what's calling
> what sounds like a nice, SANITY enabling idea. Bonus points if it can
> be taught to throw out alerts about any unusual calls once a
> longstanding "normal" pattern is discerned.

  that's a much more difficult thing to establish, but i'm
sure you can get closer.  i'm not too worried about that 
aspect as much as i'm just curious in general.  :)


  songbird

Re: bbc script

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 04:59:19 AM Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I tested the following script by having the $REPLY variable report its
> value after the select statement and the value I entered was correct.
> The problem I'm having is with the case statement I used.  For some reason
> the case statement isn't playing any of the stations and I have mpv on my
> machine.
> Have we got any case statement experts who wouldn't mind examining this
> script and sending me a few pointers?
> I have many other scripts with radio stations in them and if I can get
> this technique working I'll be able to roll those into a single script
> correctly:
> Cut here.
> #!/usr/bin/env bash
> # file: bbc.sh
> PS3="Enter a number to Choose station: "
> select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
>  b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping 
> bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
> bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
> do
> case $REPLY in
> $REPLY==1)
>mpv

I am not a bash expert (not even close), but I don't see where your selection 
(in PS3) gets transferred to REPLY -- shouldn't that happen somewhere 
explicitly?

Re: Watching a directory, was Re: how would you do this?

[songbird]

David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 18 Aug 2021 at 20:55:12 (-0400), songbird wrote:
>>   let's suppose you have a directory where there are
>> various scripts, libraries, programs, data, etc.
>> 
>>   you want to know exactly which other scripts, libraries,
>> etc. use them and to log each caller to know the name so
>> it can be tracked down (location would be nice too, but 
>> that could be found later if needed).
>> 
>>   i don't need to keep the information in a database as
>> just having the log file will be enough.
>> 
>>   how would you do this?
>> 
>>   this isn't a homework assignment i'm just curious how
>> easy or hard this would be to accomplish.
>
> Easy.
>
> $ inotifywait -m -e access --timefmt "%F %T" --format "%T %f" the-directory/
>
> To try it, just type in that line, using a sensible directory name.
> (The package name to install first is inotify-tools.)
>
> Change the formats to taste. Pipe into a   while IFS=$'\n' read Filename ; do
> loop if you want to do something with the output. See:
>
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg01494.html
>
> for a real script (waiting on close-writeable-file, rather than just
> access) that I use a lot for stealing files from FireFox's cache
> (~/.cache/mozilla/firefox/foo.bar.profile/cache2/entries/).


  thanks!  very interesting!  :)

  thank you to others who replied also.  :)

  i was wondering if there was a general tool available as on
debian-devel they are talking about usr-merge and if there was a
simple way to find out who's using /bin and such instead of 
/usr/bin, but also the idea of being able to set up a honeypot
on your own system and see if any programs or processes you 
haven't done yourself are accessing it.  might give you a
warning of being hacked, but of course there are other things
going on in a system which you expect to access things so it
is an interesting way to find out what is happening...

  after many years and a lot of different things being set up
i think it is a good idea to keep an eye on what is happening.
especially with how things are going these days.


  songbird

Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

[songbird]

Anssi Saari wrote:
...
> And yes, the working upgrades are the reason I've stuck with Debian
> since Hamm. My ever evolving desktop computer is on its second
> installation now since I reinstalled when I switched to 64-bits
> somewhere in the decade before last.

  when i changed motherboards i figured it was worth a fresh
install, but otherwise i've been running testing for a long
time so reading release notes is often long past when the
changes have happened here.  instead i watch what is being
proposed during the upgrades and will read up on changes as
they come through.  sometimes a glitch will burn me but i 
have a separate bootable stable partition (and backups) so
i don't usually get too far out of whack.  :)


  songbird

font-colour on a bullseye desktop: (too) white

[steef van duin]

i am sorry. it is a long time i was mailing to this list for help


OK.  Now we know which terminal you use, and this*probably*  also means
you're running XFCE as your desktop environment.  That will be useful
information for the thread back on the mailing list.

yes, that is right  i am using xfce, last version

regards

steef
 

Re: font-colour on desktop

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 09:52:47AM +0200, steef van duin wrote:
> hi folks
> 
> a small problem for me in using bullseye: how can I change the colours of the 
> fonts on the desktop??

Start by figuring out which desktop environment (if any) you're
running.  I would think most of them have some sort of "control panel"
or similar configuration program/applet which you can launch and then
click on with a mouse.

If you can't find it by clicking through menus, then try a Google search
which includes the name of your desktop environment, and a few keywords
that describe what you want to do.

I'm wondering, actually, what you mean by "fonts on the desktop".  Most of
the time, when people talk of fonts, they actually mean fonts within a
terminal emulator or a web browser, since that's where they see the
most text.  It's hard for me to wrap my head around a request to change
the font colors within a web browser, because those are so obviously
controlled by the page author.  So I'm thinking you mean a terminal
emulator.

If that's true, then you need to identify which terminal emulator you're
using.  In some cases, it may be obvious -- the terminal emulator's name
may appear in the window's title bar, or in the menu from which you
launch the terminal.  In other cases, it may not be obvious.

If you're unsure, you can *try* running this command:

ps -fp $PPID

inside a shell in a terminal.  This will show you the shell's parent
process, which is typically the terminal emulator.  Not always, but it's
worth a try.

Once you know which terminal emulator it is, you can try Googling for how
to change the default foreground and/or background colors of that terminal.
There may be something you click on with a mouse, or there may be settings
you can put into your ~/.Xresources file, etc.  It all depends on the
terminal emulator.

Re: Swiss Army Knife of Sound has me Baffled.

[Martin McCormick]

Dan Ritter  writes:
> > arecord: set_params:1345: Channels count non available
> > sox FAIL formats: can't open input  `-': WAVE: RIFF header not found
> 
> Keep recording 2 channels. Your hardware doesn't like it
> otherwise.
> 
> You can ask sox:
> 
> sox -t wav -c1 - -r44100 $filename
> 
> to merge the channels to a single output channel
> 
> I believe, but have not tested, that a final argument to sox of
> 
> remix 1
> 
> will get you just the left channel, or remix 2 for the right
> channel.
> 
> -dsr-

I haven't tried anything new yet but that sure looks right and
will probably work.

Thanks to all who responded.  This is what I like about
this list as it presently exists.  I had figured out that the
problem was  with the hardware which is a fairly decent device
but severely limited in Linux because a lot of it's power comes
from a proprietary driver like a number of other devices such as
winmodems, etc.  Then I read this:

Nicolas George  writes:
> If you read carefully, you will notice that your problem is not with
> sox, it is with arecord: sox only fails because arecord fails and does
> not produce anything.
> 
> arecord itself fails because "channels count not available": the sound
> device you are using does not like mono, it obviously like only stereo.
> 
> You have two options:
> 
> - Use a sound device that supports mono. Since you cannot change your
>   hardware, it needs to be done in software with an ALSA plugin. This is
>   all streamlined, you only need to write plughw instead of hw.
> 
> - Keep recording in stereo, and have sox convert it to mono before
>   saving. You will need to peruse the manual page of sox to know the
>   option, I only ever use ffmpeg for obvious reasons.
> 
> Note that:
> 
> - If you use plughw instead of hw, then the ALSA plugin can also
>   resample, and therefore you no longer needs sox at all.
> 
> - sox is capable of recording from ALSA directly, with something like
>   "-t alsa plughw:0".
> 
> Regards,

I actually did get a message from arecord about using a plugin
and you  have answered the question as to what needs to be done
to make that happen.  I had not even thought of the plugin
solution so this is a whole new possible route to success which I didn't even
think of before.

David Wright  also writes:
> Try -r 8000, or leave out -r and -c entirely, and you should
> succeed. But I doubt that's really your priority, is it?
> 
> > […] and I
> > guess I could leave it in stereo mode and tell sox to mix the
> > left and right channels which is fine with me but kind of clunky.
> 
> That's why it's the "Swiss Army knife". After mixing the two channels,
> you can write to a single-channel WAV file.
> 
> What you can't do is tell /arecord/ to use an ADC that doesn't exist.
> 
> Cheers,
> David.

I am in no great hurry so I will probably try both the
plugin solution and the sox coding and save them both for later
as the idea is to end up with something that is both efficient and
useful.

Thanks, everybody.

Martin McCormick   WB5AGZ

Re: Can't boot following re-install to LVM on LUKS [was: can't login via gdm]

[Morgan Read]

  
  

  
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 03:46:51PM +0100, Morgan Read wrote:
> On 11/08/2021 11:30 pm, David Christensen wrote:
> > On 8/11/21 6:45 AM, Morgan Read wrote:
> >> After having overcome a fairly fundamental bug with calamares as
> >> described here:
> >> https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1564#issuecomment-846321060
> >> And, (unnecessarily as it turned out) re-installed my system, I find
> >> I'm unable to boot. ...
> ...

Morgan,
  
  Hi Andy, Thanks for coming back to me:-
  
Possibly just don't use calamares. Use the standard Debian installer (d-i for
short). Either the standard or expert installs offer you "ordinary" LVM or
encrypted LVM with LUKS, made even more straightforward if you can choose
  
  Actually, it was calamares that worked better than d-i - after
  failing with Debian's calamares live install I followed the
  instructions for d-i here:
https://www.blakehartshorn.com/installing-debian-on-existing-encrypted-lvm/
  Blake Hartshorn seems to do a pretty good job of describing the
  problem and solution.  However, it wasn't a solution for me
  because the install failed repeatedly over the course of a couple
  of days (I was using 10.10 cf. BH using 10.4) - it wasn't until
  after I'd invested in a new flash drive and continued with the
  same fails that I tried the PureOS live install, which worked. 
  You can read a full discussion of my woes here:
https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1564#issuecomment-898246354
  Essentially, d-i couldn't get passed either the base system dpkg
  install (most usually base-passwd) or the following software
  install.  The dpkg warnings were thrown on "parsing file
  '/var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 5 package 'dpkg' : missing
  description field" with errors on the stateoverride file.
I would have filed bug reports but then Debian went to 11 and I
  figured there'd be a new disk spun so it was all history anyway
  and I had a working machine with PureOS.


  
Also: the standard size for swap is now 1G and for a dedicated /tmp 
partition of 2G.

  
  That's interesting - so nothing for hibernation on swap?  I gave
  8G to allow for hibernation, but would happily give it away if I
  could?
Many thanks.
-- 
Morgan Read

UNITED KINGDOM
Em: 

Confused about DRM?
Get all the info you need at:

  




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Re: Swiss Army Knife of Sound has me Baffled.

[Dan Ritter]

Martin McCormick wrote: 
>   So, I want a mono version.  Let's try this:
> 
> #! /bin/sh
> cd ~/tmp
> filename=$1.wav
> echo $filename
> arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 48000 -d $2 -c 1 -f S16_LE - \
> | sox -t wav - -r44100 $filename
> 
> This hasn't worked yet.  It is identical to the good version but
> for c 1 as the number of channels to arecord instead of c 2 .

...
 
> arecord: set_params:1345: Channels count non available
> sox FAIL formats: can't open input  `-': WAVE: RIFF header not found

Keep recording 2 channels. Your hardware doesn't like it
otherwise.

You can ask sox:

sox -t wav -c1 - -r44100 $filename

to merge the channels to a single output channel

I believe, but have not tested, that a final argument to sox of

remix 1

will get you just the left channel, or remix 2 for the right
channel.

-dsr-

Re: bbc script

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Jude DaShiell wrote:
> select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
>b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping
> bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
> bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
> do
> case $REPLY in
>$REPLY==1)

man bash says about "case" that before ")" are patterns which are tested
whether they match.
So the text snippet "$REPLY==" before "1)" looks wrong.

This litle experiment works for me:

  select station in AAA BB CC quit
  do
echo $REPLY
case $REPLY in
   1) echo aaa
  ;;
   2) echo bb
  ;;
   3) echo cc
  ;;
   4) break
  ;;
 esac
  done

(As C programmer i am more into "if"-"elif"-chains than into "case", though.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

bbc script

[Jude DaShiell]

I tested the following script by having the $REPLY variable report its
value after the select statement and the value I entered was correct.
The problem I'm having is with the case statement I used.  For some reason
the case statement isn't playing any of the stations and I have mpv on my
machine.
Have we got any case statement experts who wouldn't mind examining this
script and sending me a few pointers?
I have many other scripts with radio stations in them and if I can get
this technique working I'll be able to roll those into a single script
correctly:
Cut here.
#!/usr/bin/env bash
# file: bbc.sh
PS3="Enter a number to Choose station: "
select station in bbc1 bbc-1-extra bbc-2 bbc-3 bbc-4 \
   b  bc-4-long-wave-and-shipping 
bbc-4-extra bbc-5 \
bbc-6-music bbc-world-service quit
do
case $REPLY in
$REPLY==1)
 mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_one.pls
 ;;

 $REPLY==2)
mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_1xtra.pls
;;

  $REPLY==3)
 mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_two.pls
 ;;

   $REPLY==4)
  mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_three.pls
  ;;

$REPLY==5)
   mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_fourfm.pls
   ;;

 $REPLY==6)
mpv 
http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/mediaset/http-icy-mp3-a/format/pls/proto/http/vpid/bbc_radio_fourlw.pls
;;

  $REPLY==7)
 mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_radio_four_extra
 ;;


   $REPLY==8)

  mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_radio_five_live_online_nonuk

  ;;


  $REPLY==9)

 mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_6music

 ;;


 $REPLY==10)

 mpv 
http://stream.live.vc.bbcmedia.co.uk/bbc_world_service

 ;;


 $REPLY==11)

 exit 0

 ;;




 esac

 done

Re: apparmors extra profiles.

[raf]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 10:32:11PM +0300, Georgios  
wrote:

> Hi!
> Im trying to install debian 11 on virtual machine manager in order to
> prepare my self for moving my laptop to debian 11.
> 
> Default install leaves unconfined a lot of apps so I tried to install
> extra profiles.
> According to documentation it supposed to install extra profiles at
> /usr/share/apparmor/extra-profiles/
> but there is no apparmor folder. only apparmor-features.
> 
> I would like to ask if anyone knows where apparmor-profiles-extra
> install its profiles?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> George

Strangely, it's the apparmor-profiles package that includes
/usr/share/apparmor/extra-profiles:

  > dpkg-query -L apparmor-profiles
  [...]
  /usr/share/apparmor/extra-profiles
  /usr/share/apparmor/extra-profiles/README
  /usr/share/apparmor/extra-profiles/bin.netstat
  /usr/share/apparmor/extra-profiles/etc.cron.daily.logrotate
  [...]

The apparmor-profiles-extra package only contains:

  > dpkg-query -L apparmor-profiles-extra
  /etc
  /etc/apparmor.d
  /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions
  /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/gstreamer
  /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/totem
  /etc/apparmor.d/local
  /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.irssi
  /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.pidgin
  /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.totem
  /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.totem-previewers
  /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.apt-cacher-ng
  /usr
  /usr/share
  /usr/share/doc
  /usr/share/doc/apparmor-profiles-extra
  /usr/share/doc/apparmor-profiles-extra/README.Debian
  /usr/share/doc/apparmor-profiles-extra/changelog.gz
  /usr/share/doc/apparmor-profiles-extra/copyright

So you probably haven't installed the apparmor-profiles package.

  apt install apparmor-profiles

Check what apparmor packages you have with:

  dpkg-query -l | grep apparmor

And compare it with what is available:

  apt-cache search apparmor

And install any you think you'd like.

cheers,
raf

Re: Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list ...]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 4:34 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 04:27:08AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 2021-08-19 2:18 a.m., deloptes wrote:
>>> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>> You see yourself in a role to correct someone ... typical for leftist with
>>> moral superiority syndrome.
>>>
>> wow ! you seem really to have your mind sticking somewhere what does
>> politics has to do with this discussion ?
> 
> Just a humble suggestion: Polyna, please, keep it low. It was an obvious
> flamebait. If you jump (too much) for it, you are just playing his game.
> 
+1 agree
> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 4:04 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 12:51:24AM -0700, Weaver wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> Do you really think it's that bad?
> 
> I actually agree that it is manageable. OTOH, things are
> changing, and change must be tackled.
> 
> Community is these days more diverse than it used to be.
> This is a Good Thing, but it makes communication a more
> "interesting" task. No free lunch :-)
+1 for this nice thought
> 
> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list ...]

[tomas]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 04:27:08AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2021-08-19 2:18 a.m., deloptes wrote:
> > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

[...]

> > You see yourself in a role to correct someone ... typical for leftist with
> > moral superiority syndrome.
> > 
> wow ! you seem really to have your mind sticking somewhere what does
> politics has to do with this discussion ?

Just a humble suggestion: Polyna, please, keep it low. It was an obvious
flamebait. If you jump (too much) for it, you are just playing his game.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants ...]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 3:47 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 08:18:37AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> You see yourself in a role to correct someone ... typical for leftist with
>> moral superiority syndrome.
> 
> This is a crudely obvious flamebait. Why do you do this?
> 
I don't know why he does this.

But surely made me laugh to see such comment on a forum based on
cooperation and community support. That's pretty much "leftist" or
socialist as we could say.

I may have had the wrong words with some user (I think of Gunnar Gervin
for example), but I always tried in good faith to help out. Even if this
meant taking a message and time so I could explain to this user some
basic rules like "don't top post", "ask simple question, describe your
hardware", etc... I've never went this far as insulting people or
supposed political opinion or anything personal.

I think the best is only to ignore those type of behavior.
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian])

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-19 2:18 a.m., deloptes wrote:
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
>> You seem pretty good a drawing a line between *good* and *bad*, always
>> putting yourself on the *good* side.
>>
> 
> see this is exactly the attitude I am reffering to. 
> 
>> What if ? What if there wasn't any *bad* user ? You are the one bringing
>> over old subject that you consider off-topic. You seem really touched by
>> giving your self a role as governor of a mailing list or policing what's
>> acceptable and not. But don't seem to understand that the community
>> itself made the choice of having this list un-moderated.
>>
> 
> You see yourself in a role to correct someone ... typical for leftist with
> moral superiority syndrome.
> 
wow ! you seem really to have your mind sticking somewhere what does
politics has to do with this discussion ?

it's kind of awkward to talk against leftist when this list if for
cooperation and support, all of this without getting anything in return.
you seem a bit upset, is it possible to help you ?

you have something constructive to say ?

other than the fact that you seem to really dislike people who you call
*leftist*, I have serious doubt about your ability to discuss in a
civilized manner without resorting to personal insult.

accusing me of correcting someone and acting like you do is one type of
*laughable irony*
>> That is, the people chose that it will remain like this. Even if they
>> ain't with all the good technical genius expertise you have. That's what
>> was decided. So maybe it's time you just accept it...
> 
> This post was totally unnecessary. And this is my problem with you.
> I usually ignore what you write, but as this is in the focus of the
> discussion, I write this only once and "plonk" you. I am sorry for that and
> for you and for your family especially children if you have such.
> 

go ahead and plonk me one more time. feels to me like reading a high
school teenager being pissed off *sorry for your family and children*
that's low level name calling that the only comment I can add... You
must be damn sad if you have all those emotions for everybody around

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them)

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 12:51:24AM -0700, Weaver wrote:

Do you really think it's that bad?


Yes.


I can remember back when I would wake up in the morning to have over 300
list messages on screen.
And, many of those were Off-Topic but, usually, people were reasonably
active in labelling them as such.


I don't think labelling helps people who are not experienced with
mailing lists and so can interpret threads and suchlike properly,
which is the audience I want to help.


On the other hand, the majority, as it is now, would be on topic.


It doesn't *feel* to me that the majority are on topic now, but I
haven't sat down and classified a sample to truly find out.


And, further, those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to
repeat it.
We've had an off-topic mailing list in the past.
I actually signed up for it and spent a little time there.
It was a ghost town.
It simply didn't work.


Yes it didn't work, that's my impression too. So I agree with you at
least as far it would not be worth doing the exact same thing again.
One thing that wasn't done last time (or really, at any time) was
to enforce the mailing list rules more strictly. Therefore there was
no incentive for people to bother using the second list. Perhaps
stronger enforcement of the rules is needed. In which case, having a
more relaxed list where off-topic wasn't a problem might be a more
attractive proposition.

The proper place to have a discussion about whether or not the rules
should be enforced is, of course, not here: so I will do so elsewhere.

Lest it seem that I am totally "down" on the community that does exist
on -user: I think there's value in fact that a group of people with a
shared interest enjoy discussing all matter of other things. I don't
want that destroyed. I'd like to see how it might better co-exist with
the user-support aspect of the mailing list. But I might be tilting at
windmills here. There's a reason that almost no other Debian developers
engage with this list, despite them all being, almost by definition,
Debian users.


--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
🔗   https://jmtd.net

font-colour on desktop

[steef van duin]

hi folks

a small problem for me in using bullseye: how can I change the colours of the 
fonts on the desktop??
(if possible)
thanks a lot

cheers,

steef
groningen

Re: Swiss Army Knife of Sound has me Baffled.

[Nicolas George]

Martin McCormick (12021-08-18):
> arecord: set_params:1345: Channels count non available
> sox FAIL formats: can't open input  `-': WAVE: RIFF header not found

If you read carefully, you will notice that your problem is not with
sox, it is with arecord: sox only fails because arecord fails and does
not produce anything.

arecord itself fails because "channels count not available": the sound
device you are using does not like mono, it obviously like only stereo.

You have two options:

- Use a sound device that supports mono. Since you cannot change your
  hardware, it needs to be done in software with an ALSA plugin. This is
  all streamlined, you only need to write plughw instead of hw.

- Keep recording in stereo, and have sox convert it to mono before
  saving. You will need to peruse the manual page of sox to know the
  option, I only ever use ffmpeg for obvious reasons.

Note that:

- If you use plughw instead of hw, then the ALSA plugin can also
  resample, and therefore you no longer needs sox at all.

- sox is capable of recording from ALSA directly, with something like
  "-t alsa plughw:0".

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them)

[tomas]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 12:51:24AM -0700, Weaver wrote:

[...]

> Do you really think it's that bad?

I actually agree that it is manageable. OTOH, things are
changing, and change must be tackled.

Community is these days more diverse than it used to be.
This is a Good Thing, but it makes communication a more
"interesting" task. No free lunch :-)

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them)

[Weaver]

On 19-08-2021 16:23, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 01:34:24AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>>What if ? What if there wasn't any *bad* user ? You are the one bringing
>>over old subject that you consider off-topic. You seem really touched by
>>giving your self a role as governor of a mailing list or policing what's
>>acceptable and not. But don't seem to understand that the community
>>itself made the choice of having this list un-moderated.
> 
> I can't speak for Brian but I've been subscribed to this list for a long
> time and I've seen a change in how it is being used, which I think is
> harmful to its core purpose, and so I (and others) are trying to find a
> way to fix that. With respect, you've only been active here for a very
> short while, so you don't have the perspective that others do on the
> problem.
> 
> People posting off-topic and going off on tangents has always happened.

Correct!

> What has changed is the frequency and duration of those tangents, which
> are now drowning out everything else.

Do you really think it's that bad?
I can remember back when I would wake up in the morning to have over 300
list messages on screen.
And, many of those were Off-Topic but, usually, people were reasonably
active in labelling them as such.
On the other hand, the majority, as it is now, would be on topic.
Some _technically_ productive content would be there, and often, once
that purpose had been served, many of those would become off-topic,
also.
But, as I have recently stated, interaction, within a community, is
important, whether the content is on or off-topic.
Within reason.
When carried to the extreme, it's not productive.

And, further, those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to
repeat it.
We've had an off-topic mailing list in the past.
I actually signed up for it and spent a little time there.
It was a ghost town.
It simply didn't work.
Cheers!

Harry.

-- 
`Unthinking respect for authority is 
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein

Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants ...]

[tomas]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 08:18:37AM +0200, deloptes wrote:

[...]

> You see yourself in a role to correct someone ... typical for leftist with
> moral superiority syndrome.

This is a crudely obvious flamebait. Why do you do this?

 - t


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Re: metaSendsEscape not working after power outage

[tomas]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 10:03:34PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 12:16:29 (+1000), Nicholas Croft wrote:
> > 
> > After a power outage metaSendsEscape won't work for my main user.  It is 
> > defined in /etc/X11/app-defaults/XTerm and covers all users including root. 
> >  I added a new user and it works there.  
> > 
> > I've tried adding "xterm*metaSendsEscape:true" to my .Xdefaults and loading 
> > it with xrdb, but to no avail. I've rebooted as well.
> > 
> > I pretty much depend on it
> > 
> > Any thoughts, other than saving my files, doing deluser and adduser again.
> 
> No idea—except, could the power outage have flipped the NumLock state?
> It's only a guess. (Many keyboards have no indicator light.)

This hunch conflicts somewhat with the "new user is OK" observation.

Another hunch: have you looked into existing user's ~/.Xresources (or
similar user-owned X configuration tidbits)? Have you compared them to
those of the newly created user?

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Debian 11 Live USB with persistence?

[tomas]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 10:24:27PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I wanted to do something exactly like that some months ago.
> > What I ended up doing is using a normal Debian installation
> > with an overlay file system mounted over the root.
> 
> FWIW, you can do simpler and just use a normal Debian install on
> a USB key.  That saves the trouble of the overlay filesystem.
> 
> And if you want to be able to revert easily to the initial state, then
> you can probably get a similar result using an LVM snapshot.

There's still some charm to Santiago's approach: the device is (nearly?)
read-only after install.

Cheers
 - t


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