Re: Black screens on old nVidia card
On Wed Apr 12 21:44:23 2023 Charles Curley wrote: > On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 10:59:43 -0700 > Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> $ cat /etc/debian_version >> 11.5 > > Hmm, the current version is 11.6. Maybe there's a fix in the upgrades > you haven't yet installed??? Dunno. But the display has always been a bit flaky. Things got really bad after my annual vacuuming of the box. >> [ 1406.213319] NVRM: GPU at PCI::01:00: >> GPU-d7903bd4-9549-9f07-5796-886c12d2031c >> [ 1406.213322] NVRM: Xid (PCI::01:00): 79, GPU has fallen off the >> bus. [ 1406.213324] NVRM: GPU at :01:00.0 has fallen off the bus. > > ??? I wonder if the card has an electrical problem? Thermal? > >> Yes, that video card is pretty long in the tooth; I'd gladly replace >> it if a new board will solve the problem. (If not, why bother? >> It works well enough for my purposes.) > > How much is your time worth? Buying a new inexpensive card may be less > expensive than tracking this down. Maybe your local computer store > will lend you a test video card??? Perhaps. I went there after the vacuuming I mentioned above, which left the machine unable to light the screens at all. Their tech reseated a few things I missed and tweaked things a bit. That made it work again (for a while, at least), and they were kind enough to not even charge me, so I think it's worth going back and buying a new video card from them. Thanks for the help. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth \ /| unless you're willing to X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice. / \ if you read it the right way. |-- Dogbert the green consultant
Re: Black screens on old nVidia card
Charlie Gibbs composed on 2023-04-12 10:59 (UTC-0700): > My tower (running Bullseye) has been suffering the black screen > of... well, not quite death (I can ssh in from another machine and > look at things), but it's certainly unusable for normal purposes. > I have an old nVidia video card; I've always had a bit of trouble > with it, but things got better when I replaced nouveau with the > appropriate proprietary nVidia driver (currently version 390.157). > But lately things have been getting worse; it might be only minutes > before my screens go black, and the only way to get things back is > to ssh in from another machine and force a re-boot, or reach for > the Big Red Switch. ... > $ lspci -v > 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF108 [GeForce GT > 630] (rev ff) (prog-if ff) > !!! Unknown header type 7f > Kernel driver in use: nvidia > Kernel modules: nvidia ... >(==) Matched nvidia as autoconfigured driver 0 >(==) Matched nouveau as autoconfigured driver 1 > Does this mean that nouveau is still there and possibly causing a > conflict? No. nvidia is first preference, and it will be loaded if possible. Normally installation of proprietary nvidia drivers disable any possibility of any FOSS display driver loading, which includes that provided by upstream's optional, reverse-engineered, "experimental" display driver, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau. I rarely find any use for NVidia's proprietary drivers, nor xserver-xorg-video-nouveau. As shown below for my GF108, the upstream default modesetting display driver is loaded here, enabled by the nouveau kernel module. The nouveau DDX is not used. > Can anyone suggest where to look next? Thanks... Have you ever thought to give the default a try? Is the fan plugged with debris or dead? Have you considered replacing its heat sink compound, or reseating it in its slot? # inxi -SGaz --vs --zl --hostname inxi 3.3.26-00 (2023-03-28) System: Host: gb970 Kernel: 5.10.0-21-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1 parameters: root=LABEL= ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 plymouth.enable=0 noresume mitigations=auto consoleblank=0 vga=791 video=1440x900@60 3 Desktop: Trinity v: R14.0.13 tk: Qt v: 3.5.0 info: kicker wm: Twin v: 3.0 vt: 7 dm: 1: TDM 2: XDM Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GF108 [GeForce GT 630] vendor: Gigabyte driver: nouveau v: kernel non-free: series: 390.xx+ status: legacy-active (EOL~late 2022) arch: Fermi code: GF1xx process: 40/28nm built: 2010-16 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: DVI-I-1,HDMI-A-1 empty: VGA-1 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0f00 class-ID: 0300 temp: 45.0 C Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: modesetting dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau display-ID: :0 screens: 1 Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3600x1200 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 762x254mm (30.00x10.00") s-diag: 803mm (31.62") Monitor-1: DVI-I-1 pos: right model: Dell P2213 serial: built: 2012 res: 1680x1050 hz: 60 dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2 size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65") diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes: max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400 Monitor-2: HDMI-A-1 mapped: HDMI-1 pos: primary,left model: NEC EA243WM serial: built: 2011 res: 1920x1200 hz: 60 dpi: 94 gamma: 1.2 size: 519x324mm (20.43x12.76") diag: 612mm (24.1") ratio: 16:10 modes: max: 1920x1200 min: 640x480 API: OpenGL v: 4.3 Mesa 20.3.5 renderer: NVC1 direct-render: Yes # -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Re: Mailing list usage questions
>> If I'm not wrong, RFC compliance may even be required in some areas (via >> contracts). > That might happen, but it wouldn't be a great idea from a legal > standpoint: RFCs are often ambiguous in surprising ways. Most contracts are ambiguous in surprising ways anyway :-) Stefan
Re: Black screens on old nVidia card
On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 10:59:43 -0700 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > $ cat /etc/debian_version > 11.5 Hmm, the current version is 11.6. Maybe there's a fix in the upgrades you haven't yet installed??? > [ 1406.213319] NVRM: GPU at PCI::01:00: > GPU-d7903bd4-9549-9f07-5796-886c12d2031c > [ 1406.213322] NVRM: Xid (PCI::01:00): 79, GPU has fallen off the > bus. [ 1406.213324] NVRM: GPU at :01:00.0 has fallen off the bus. ??? I wonder if the card has an electrical problem? Thermal? > Yes, that video card is pretty long in the tooth; I'd gladly replace > it if a new board will solve the problem. (If not, why bother? > It works well enough for my purposes.) How much is your time worth? Buying a new inexpensive card may be less expensive than tracking this down. Maybe your local computer store will lend you a test video card??? -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: update-initramfs
Le 12 avril 2023 David Wright a écrit : > the menu/ is moot. I would maintain that this failure mode is rare > enough for a reasonable penalty of having to type a few characters > editing the Grub menu. > > The last time I booted a kernel that was on a different partition > from my installed Grub, it took no more than typing 23 characters > and a load of rubouts. (That was after installing bookworm RC1.) I agree with all you said. But on this point I don't follow you. Yes the need is extremely rare. And so I was never able to remember this few chars stance and each time rely on rescue boot to do this. So I understand that a simple grub menu could be useful.
Re: Bookworm: dash shell globs don't recognise [^...] to negate a character class
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:12:23AM +, David wrote: > $ echo [^0-9]* > 11 22 <-- new behaviour by dash The [^chars] syntax is a negation in Basic and Extended Regular Expressions, and in bash's globs (it's a bash extension), but NOT in POSIX globs. The correct negation syntax in POSIX sh globs is [!chars]. This goes all the way back to the original Bourne shell, where the ^ character was a synonym for | (pipe), because many terminals did not have a | character. Due to the way sh parses commands, using ^ in globs would have caused problems. That's why sh uses [!chars].
Re: Mailing list usage questions
zithro wrote: > On 13 Apr 2023 01:15, Dan Ritter wrote: > > zithro wrote: > > > On 12 Apr 2023 22:15, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > > > RFCs are there for having a common ground, right ? > > > > Sort of. > > > > At various meetings, a grad student was "volunteered" to take > > notes. Not quite certain of how accurately he had transcribed > > things, he typed up "Request For Comments" at the top and sent > > around copies. > > The student was Jon Postel, right ? (RIP dude, you did us good !) Steve Crocker, who is still with us. Jon took the role of editor shortly thereafter. The story is told in RFC1000 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1000.txt > > Since then, the IETF RFC Editor has established that some RFCs > > are for noting what people are doing, some are for making > > proposals, and some are "standards track" which are expected to > > have compatible implementations. > > I guess I wrongly think RFC are standards, whereas it's only a "work in > common" ? "Standards Track" RFCs start as proposals, and if they get consensus and multiple implementations -- especially interworking implementations -- you can treat them as standards. But there are almost always interpretations, options, and experimental extensions. If you want to see a really nailed-down standard, consider WireGuard. > But isn't the IETF "standardizing" protocols ? I mean it in ISO terms. > (playword by chance ^^). Interesting that you should bring up the polar opposite of the IETF in the 'standards' world. The ISO starts by appointing a group of experts, publishes a standard, and charges for access. The IETF brings together interested volunteers, publishes many revisions until a consensus is reached, and gives them away for free. > > > If I'm not wrong, RFC compliance may even be required in some areas (via > > > contracts). > > > > That might happen, but it wouldn't be a great idea from a legal > > standpoint: RFCs are often ambiguous in surprising ways. > > Oh, good to know. Do you have an example at hand ? Nearly everything about IMAP. In the most trivial possible conflict: try to figure out the difference in expected behavior, if any, between folders in the default namespace called Trash, Junk, and Spam? > So I just use the usual software (postfix/dovecot), and should be good to go > ? No fear of loosing mails, either sending or receiving ? Let's say that the postfix/dovecot duo are capable of doing all the standard things that people want a mail system to do, or at worst can be extended in reasonably documented ways. Somebody else on the Internet is always doing something stupid, something malicious, and something arguably correct but different. With postfix and dovecot, you'll have as good a chance as anyone else to get things right. -dsr-
Re: Bookworm: dash shell globs don't recognise [^...] to negate a character class
Something else I've noticed with bash. Those work when run in mate-terminal but not in console for some strange reason. -- Jude "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. On Wed, 12 Apr 2023, Jude DaShiell wrote: > When I write bash scripts and I've done this for several debian versions I > use: > #!/usr/bin/env bash > That has worked in the past. > > > -- Jude "There are four boxes to be used in > defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that > order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. > > On Thu, 13 Apr 2023, David wrote: > > > In Debian, shell scripts that have > > #!/usr/bin/sh > > as the first line are executed by the 'dash' shell. > > > > If you write such scripts, you might be interested > > to know that 'dash' currently has a behaviour > > change in Debian version 12 Bookworm compared to > > Debian version 11 Bullseye. > > > > This is being discussed at > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1028002 > > > > Below is a demo of the change which shows an > > example of possible consequences. > > > > In Debian version 11 Bullseye, > > Bash and 'dash' behave the same: > > $ cat /etc/debian_version > > 11.6 > > $ mkdir eek > > $ cd eek > > $ touch aa bb 11 22 > > $ bash > > $ echo [!0-9]* > > aa bb > > $ echo [^0-9]* > > aa bb > > $ sh > > $ echo [!0-9]* > > aa bb > > $ echo [^0-9]* > > aa bb > > > > In Debian version 12 Bookworm, > > Bash and 'dash' behave differently: > > $ cat /etc/debian_version > > 12.0 > > $ mkdir eek > > $ cd eek > > $ touch aa bb 11 22 > > $ bash > > $ echo [!0-9]* > > aa bb > > $ echo [^0-9]* > > aa bb > > $ sh > > $ echo [!0-9]* > > aa bb > > $ echo [^0-9]* > > 11 22 <-- new behaviour by dash > > > > > >
Re: Bookworm: dash shell globs don't recognise [^...] to negate a character class
When I write bash scripts and I've done this for several debian versions I use: #!/usr/bin/env bash That has worked in the past. -- Jude "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. On Thu, 13 Apr 2023, David wrote: > In Debian, shell scripts that have > #!/usr/bin/sh > as the first line are executed by the 'dash' shell. > > If you write such scripts, you might be interested > to know that 'dash' currently has a behaviour > change in Debian version 12 Bookworm compared to > Debian version 11 Bullseye. > > This is being discussed at > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1028002 > > Below is a demo of the change which shows an > example of possible consequences. > > In Debian version 11 Bullseye, > Bash and 'dash' behave the same: > $ cat /etc/debian_version > 11.6 > $ mkdir eek > $ cd eek > $ touch aa bb 11 22 > $ bash > $ echo [!0-9]* > aa bb > $ echo [^0-9]* > aa bb > $ sh > $ echo [!0-9]* > aa bb > $ echo [^0-9]* > aa bb > > In Debian version 12 Bookworm, > Bash and 'dash' behave differently: > $ cat /etc/debian_version > 12.0 > $ mkdir eek > $ cd eek > $ touch aa bb 11 22 > $ bash > $ echo [!0-9]* > aa bb > $ echo [^0-9]* > aa bb > $ sh > $ echo [!0-9]* > aa bb > $ echo [^0-9]* > 11 22 <-- new behaviour by dash > >
Bookworm: dash shell globs don't recognise [^...] to negate a character class
In Debian, shell scripts that have #!/usr/bin/sh as the first line are executed by the 'dash' shell. If you write such scripts, you might be interested to know that 'dash' currently has a behaviour change in Debian version 12 Bookworm compared to Debian version 11 Bullseye. This is being discussed at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1028002 Below is a demo of the change which shows an example of possible consequences. In Debian version 11 Bullseye, Bash and 'dash' behave the same: $ cat /etc/debian_version 11.6 $ mkdir eek $ cd eek $ touch aa bb 11 22 $ bash $ echo [!0-9]* aa bb $ echo [^0-9]* aa bb $ sh $ echo [!0-9]* aa bb $ echo [^0-9]* aa bb In Debian version 12 Bookworm, Bash and 'dash' behave differently: $ cat /etc/debian_version 12.0 $ mkdir eek $ cd eek $ touch aa bb 11 22 $ bash $ echo [!0-9]* aa bb $ echo [^0-9]* aa bb $ sh $ echo [!0-9]* aa bb $ echo [^0-9]* 11 22 <-- new behaviour by dash
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 13 Apr 2023 01:15, Dan Ritter wrote: zithro wrote: On 12 Apr 2023 22:15, Greg Wooledge wrote: RFCs are there for having a common ground, right ? Sort of. At various meetings, a grad student was "volunteered" to take notes. Not quite certain of how accurately he had transcribed things, he typed up "Request For Comments" at the top and sent around copies. The student was Jon Postel, right ? (RIP dude, you did us good !) Since then, the IETF RFC Editor has established that some RFCs are for noting what people are doing, some are for making proposals, and some are "standards track" which are expected to have compatible implementations. I guess I wrongly think RFC are standards, whereas it's only a "work in common" ? But isn't the IETF "standardizing" protocols ? I mean it in ISO terms. (playword by chance ^^). If I'm not wrong, RFC compliance may even be required in some areas (via contracts). That might happen, but it wouldn't be a great idea from a legal standpoint: RFCs are often ambiguous in surprising ways. Oh, good to know. Do you have an example at hand ? (I admit my memory lost the info about which RFC compliance I talked about. Maybe some TCP/IP related stuff, and/or related to comms in space ? Or was it "just compliance" but not in legal terms ? Really don't remember). Like should I ignore all those non-standards stuff when setting it ? Or should I handle them in the config ? The surprising thing about the Internet is how well it works, considering how many different interpretations people have committed into code. Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you receive ? (: (the infamous Jon Postel quote, may be inaccurate as extracted from memory) So I just use the usual software (postfix/dovecot), and should be good to go ? No fear of loosing mails, either sending or receiving ? (I'm only talking about the protocols themselves, not things like DNSBL, spamhaus, etc).
Re: Mailing list usage questions
zithro wrote: > On 12 Apr 2023 22:15, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > RFCs are there for having a common ground, right ? Sort of. At various meetings, a grad student was "volunteered" to take notes. Not quite certain of how accurately he had transcribed things, he typed up "Request For Comments" at the top and sent around copies. Since then, the IETF RFC Editor has established that some RFCs are for noting what people are doing, some are for making proposals, and some are "standards track" which are expected to have compatible implementations. > If I'm not wrong, RFC compliance may even be required in some areas (via > contracts). That might happen, but it wouldn't be a great idea from a legal standpoint: RFCs are often ambiguous in surprising ways. > Like should I ignore all those non-standards stuff when setting it ? > Or should I handle them in the config ? The surprising thing about the Internet is how well it works, considering how many different interpretations people have committed into code. -dsr-
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
On 4/12/23, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > I was playing with the addresses listed by Albretch ... On 4/12/23, David Wright wrote: > After googling them, I gave Moxee a call. They answer to a subtly > different name, but it's the same business: a Canadian/US company > that's been family-owned through three generations. Their website > is now hosted by godaddy, so I guess they just hang on to those old > addresses. I don't know why they have their Moxee plant's street > address on it. (Their godaddy registration is buttoned up in the > modern manner.) Once again, "social" issues remind me of my dear grandpa Hegel ;-). There must be idiotic people like me for "smart" people out there to "be themselves". The issue at hand was the traceroute exaggerated "* * *" output, no? BTW, I made sure to put a "'little' tin hat" on my post and phrased it knowing well "it would be archived", but, in case you want to believe me, those actions weren't directed at you. Here are my candidate elucidations (and from the little corner from which I see reality Occam's Razor doesn't really apply); either the "international community" (tm) doesn't like that niggah me has to download vast amounts of data items (it is almost exclusively text anyway, so I don't know what the big deal is and I have noticed people on the same network (using windows terminals) with more than one browser window open watching high def videos) so, it might be my usage patterns which is flagged as "dangerous" dude misbehaving. There is also some idiotic perp invariably dressed on a pink shirt that USG is paying to occupy a relatively retired seat where I used to sit my days. Unfortunately, I couldn't take a picture of him for you to "analyze it" ... lbrtchx
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 22:15, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 10:04:42PM +0200, zithro wrote: So it seems that, despite (incomplete?) standards, each provider (in the whole mail chain, MUA, MTA, etc) "does what he wants" ? Why do you sound surprised? This is how everything works. Everything. I tend to agree AND disagree about "everything" ^^ [Reminds me of the discussion about categorization which happened on this ML a few days ago, about perl iirc ; ) ] RFCs are there for having a common ground, right ? If I'm not wrong, RFC compliance may even be required in some areas (via contracts). Are you referring to "extending standards w/o making it a standard" (read: intellectual property and market advantage) ? Or something else ? Because now we're at it, I am trying to understand the caveats of the whole mail system stuff. Setting it up for a local/personal network was easy, but it's another beast when getting public (IMHO). Like should I ignore all those non-standards stuff when setting it ? Or should I handle them in the config ?
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
On Wed 12 Apr 2023 at 20:18:19 (+0100), debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > I was playing with the addresses listed by Albretch and found that > 199.254.252.1 is interesting. whois says it belongs to "Alexandria Sash > & Door (ASD-1)" and > https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wa/601161047 (via google) tells > me that firm was dissolved in 2005. But the whois entry was updated in > 2021. So something's a little odd there. ping says "From 51.148.77.136 > icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable" when I try to ping it. After googling them, I gave Moxee a call. They answer to a subtly different name, but it's the same business: a Canadian/US company that's been family-owned through three generations. Their website is now hosted by godaddy, so I guess they just hang on to those old addresses. I don't know why they have their Moxee plant's street address on it. (Their godaddy registration is buttoned up in the modern manner.) Cheers, David.
Re: update-initramfs
On Wed 12 Apr 2023 at 07:50:33 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote: > On 2023-04-12 at 07:44, Michel Verdier wrote: > > Le 12 avril 2023 The Wanderer a écrit : > > > >> Without anything more, wouldn't that just result in an extra > >> GRUB-menu entry pointing to the same copy of the kernel/etc.? > > > > Of course he can change menuentry to point to another kernel/initram > > From what I understand matters, the problem is that after he creates the > copy of the initrd, update-initramfs (as run by update-grub) fails, > because the underlying files which it thinks would be needed by an > initrd with the filename that the copy has don't exist. > > >> As I think I understand matters, the goal is to have a duplicate > >> copy of the kernel/etc. *and* a separate GRUB menu entry pointing > >> to it, so that if something blows away or otherwise messes up the > >> original the duplicate is still around to serve as a fallback. > > > > Yes if he points menuentry to the backup he got this fallback. By my reckoning, the "fallbacks" in this context are old kernel versions, kept in case the newer version of the kernel doesn't work. > The question would therefore be how to have the backup copy without > resulting in this update-initramfs failure happening. But in what other situation would you make backups, and then store them all mixed in with the active versions? > About the only possibility I can think of would be to *also* copy the > respective underlying files, so that they are available under the name > update-initramfs expects to see. That would probably make the backup - > and the process of creating it - noticeably more unwieldy, however. But why ever /process/ backup copies? Surely you just repeat backing up the latest updates whenever you've ascertained that they're good. If you place the backups under a different, non-active directory, then they won't get accidentally seen by update-initramfs and tampered with. > And it's entirely possible that there's some aspect of the process I'm > not seeing which would mean that that wouldn't work. The only minor difference I see from a typical backup scenario is that you probably want this set of backups to be quickly available for the Grub menu to read. Whether that means being included /in the menu/ is moot. I would maintain that this failure mode is rare enough for a reasonable penalty of having to type a few characters editing the Grub menu. The last time I booted a kernel that was on a different partition from my installed Grub, it took no more than typing 23 characters and a load of rubouts. (That was after installing bookworm RC1.) Cheers, David.
Re: SQUASHFS error: Unable to read fragment cache entry ...
On 12 Apr 2023 19:51, Albretch Mueller wrote: I always use a Debian live DVD while exposed. The thing is that in order to squeeze every minute of attention I possibly can I tend to: a) just close the lid of my laptop b) while keeping the DVD player attached to the laptop c) then, reopen it and continue. That way I avoid like 5 minutes of configuration time. Not always, but most of the times I start getting those kinds of errors. Basically, I need to be able to close my laptop and pack it up while I am going from point A to B and then take it out and continue. How do you guys to that? I mean, "you guys who must use live DVD" ;-) Any helpful tip would be appreciated! lbrtchx I would use Qubes OS, but it's not a straight forward experience ; ) Plus your hardware must be : - recent, as Qubes is kinda CPU/memory hungry - supported, as you need to use sleep modes It is not really an answer to your particular bug though.
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 19:20, John Hasler wrote:
zithro writes:
To not have to handle issues with security or availability of an own
mail server.
I use pobox.com's paid service. Email is their business. I run Postfix
locally using the Pobox server as a smarthost and use Fetchmail to
download my mail every five minutes. Best of both worlds, and I have my
own domain so that I can easily relocate to another service with minimal
disruption. I don't want to rely on a promotional giveaway from an
advertising agency for an important service like email.
I totally get your point, after all Google is the biggest advertising
company.
And I admit I hate using it with personal/private emails.
But *only* considering public mailing list, I fail to understand how it
is a problem (I'm also not using the webmail version).
And thanks for sharing how you're using mail services.
Google's engineers are way better than me ; )
Perhaps, but Google is an advertising agency and they are giving away the
service you are using. The revenue per user that they get by extracting
marketable data from their user's emails has to be slim, and that has to
pay those engineers. How is their support? How quickly do they respond
to trouble reports?
And, of course, you have no contract with Google.
True, I'm only using their free tier offer ("free for personal use").
I don't want to act like I promote google, but their support is
reactive, even for "free" users like me.
This summer, I failed to realize there was a change in their product.
You had to "transfer" your account to still use the free tier, before a
date, or else you'd loose the service for good (i was shaking a bit ^^).
A month after the due date, I kindly asked them if they could still
"keep me" and transfer the service to the "new free offer".
A day after, mails were working again.
Ok, I agree that some of their policies are invasive to say the least.
But it's the price to pay for convenience.
In this world, except air, what's *really* free ? ^^
Take Youtube for example.
Everyone is happy that it exists, yet who is paying for it ?
From what I've read, Youtube is (was?) loosing money.
Ads are, unfortunately, a necessary evil those days.
I'm not saying I like this business model though, but, again,
it's convenient.
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 10:04:42PM +0200, zithro wrote: > So it seems that, despite (incomplete?) standards, each provider > (in the whole mail chain, MUA, MTA, etc) "does what he wants" ? Why do you sound surprised? This is how everything works. Everything.
Re: Mailing list usage questions
[Note: I snipped everything for easier read, and replied to the most recent email] Thank you all for your constructive answers ! This was a really interesting read. So it seems that, despite (incomplete?) standards, each provider (in the whole mail chain, MUA, MTA, etc) "does what he wants" ?
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 19:56, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 06:40:45PM +0200, zithro wrote:
[...]
But they don't work for you.
Well, in a sense, yes, and freely ^^
You don't want to be convinced
No, that's not how life works. How pretentious is that sentence ...
Nonetheless, I'm still curious about your thoughts.
Talking is the number one prerogative of security services.
With, and especially with, your ennemies ! ("The gatekeepers" movie)
[...]
Ah ah, this answer ... "I know but I'll keep it for myself". Very nice !
BTW, security by obscurity is a delusion.
Zuboff, Shoshana (2019).
The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a
Human Future at the New Frontier of Power.
London: Profile Books.
ISBN 978-1-78125-685-5 [1]
If only you were less cryptic I could answer.
Please don't and let's put this to rest.
It's a public mailing list.
A place to *discuss*.
A place to *exchange knowledge*.
I care and listen about knowledge and opinions from *anyone*.
It does not mean I agree or disagree with them.
In this post, you're only posting opinions (rather aggressively and
pretentiously), but zero knowledge or technical information which can
help or inform other people.
Thanks for the book though, will take a look. Is it like a technical
1984 ("Big Brother") ?
Also, if someone knows what he's talking about, I'd be glad to
read it. I mean technical or non-technical facts -and- opinions.
Sharing is caring.
Peace.
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
On 13.04.2023 00:00, Albretch Mueller wrote: Yes, but should it happen on every hop? In my case it happens while I am trying to reach every site and from wherever I have the chance to get some relatively decent Internet access? There is a chance your trace packets were filtered (rate-limited), because by default "traceroute" sends them without delay and remote hosts could "see" them as flood. Try to test same route again, but with a send delay set to a reasonable 1 second using "-z" parameter, like so: # traceroute -z 1 8.8.8.8 -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 05:37:32PM +, Albretch Mueller wrote: > > It is not with every site and it is mostly with one hop. > > > $ traceroute google.com > > traceroute to google.com (172.217.0.174), 30 hops max, 60 byte > > packets 1 _gateway (199.83.128.1) 6.687 ms 6.660 ms 6.683 ms > > 2 199.83.240.2 (199.83.240.2) 6.101 ms 6.622 ms 6.610 ms > > 3 ad.nypl.org (199.254.254.1) 6.600 ms 6.588 ms 6.577 ms > > 4 199.254.252.1 (199.254.252.1) 6.566 ms 6.590 ms 6.738 ms > > 5 * * * > > . . . > > 30 * * * > > First you have to understand how traceroute works. It's like ping, > except that instead of just sending out a stream of normal packets, > one per second, and noting the reply times, it sends out a bunch of > packets with increasing Time To Live fields. > > Each router along the path to the destination decreases the TTL field, > and if it's negative (or zero?) at any given point, that hop is > supposed to return a "Time Exceeded" response. (Time is a badly > chosen word here; it's a hop number, not an actual time interval, > that's being counted.) > > So, in theory, you should get one Time Exceeded response from each > router along the path. That's what traceroute shows you. > > However, some routers may choose not to honor this, and do not send a > Time Exceeded response to you. Or, in some cases, the response packet > may simply be lost in transit. Those are the hops where traceroute > shows * * *. > > An example from my system: > > unicorn:~$ traceroute www.google.com > traceroute to www.google.com (142.250.190.4), 30 hops max, 60 byte > packets 1 routerlogin.net (10.0.0.1) 0.413 ms 0.355 ms 0.415 ms > 2 65-131-222-254.mnfd.centurylink.net (65.131.222.254) 38.070 ms > 39.776 ms 36.299 ms 3 75.160.81.21 (75.160.81.21) 41.687 ms > 45.801 ms 39.873 ms 4 * * * > 5 ae0.11.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.151.242) 56.715 ms > ae14.14.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.216.246) 56.550 ms > ae0.11.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.151.242) 58.637 ms [...] > > No response was received from hop number 4, so traceroute shows me * > * * there. I was playing with the addresses listed by Albretch and found that 199.254.252.1 is interesting. whois says it belongs to "Alexandria Sash & Door (ASD-1)" and https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wa/601161047 (via google) tells me that firm was dissolved in 2005. But the whois entry was updated in 2021. So something's a little odd there. ping says "From 51.148.77.136 icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable" when I try to ping it.
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
On 4/12/23, Greg Wooledge wrote: > unicorn:~$ traceroute www.google.com > traceroute to www.google.com (142.250.190.4), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets > 1 routerlogin.net (10.0.0.1) 0.413 ms 0.355 ms 0.415 ms > 2 65-131-222-254.mnfd.centurylink.net (65.131.222.254) 38.070 ms 39.776 > ms 36.299 ms > 3 75.160.81.21 (75.160.81.21) 41.687 ms 45.801 ms 39.873 ms > 4 * * * > 5 ae0.11.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.151.242) 56.715 ms > ae14.14.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.216.246) 56.550 ms > ae0.11.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.151.242) 58.637 ms > [...] > No response was received from hop number 4, so traceroute shows me * * * there. Yes, but should it happen on every hop? In my case it happens while I am trying to reach every site and from wherever I have the chance to get some relatively decent Internet access? A descriptive metaphor would be. You can see the traffic light once you get out of your home's drive way, but the rest of all of them misfunction regardless of where you are driving and the time of the day and it always, consistently and apparently, exclusively happens to -you- ;-) lbrtchx
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 02:16:08PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 2:06 PM wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 02:02:39PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > If you wish to wander from the convention, then don't be surprised > > > when unexpected things happen. > > > > Unexpected things happen to me all the time -- the least of them are > > related to Message-IDs. My Message-IDs are fine, thankyouverymuch :) > > ??? > > Still it doesn't make much sense discarding incoming > messages which match the IDs of outgoing ones. > > Does it make sense now, or are switching arguments? A red-herring > fallacy is a diversionary tactic. Sorry. I don't understand. I'll leave it at that. Diminishing returns etc. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed 12 Apr 2023 at 14:02:39 (-0400), Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 1:52 PM wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 12:38:37PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:12 PM The Wanderer > > > wrote: > > > > ... > > > > Some mail services apparently treat this "discard incoming messages that > > > > look like duplicates of ones you already have a copy of" behavior as a > > > > feature; Gmail is the best-known example. That has problems when (as > > > > with this mailing list) the incoming copy is not identical to the one > > > > that was sent, even though it has the same Message-ID, but AFAIK they > > > > don't seem to care. > > > > > > I believe Message-Id's are supposed to be unique across space and > > > time. It sounds like discarding the duplicate is expected behavior (to > > > me). > > > > Still it doesn't make much sense discarding incoming messages which > > match the IDs of outgoing ones. > > Most (nearly all?) mail agents follow the RFCs. The RFCs say a > Message-Id is unique across space and time. A duplicate Message-Id > means a duplicate message. > > If you wish to wander from the convention, then don't be surprised > when unexpected things happen. Note: There are many instances when messages are "changed", but those changes do not constitute a new instantiation of that message, and therefore the message would not get a new message identifier. For example, when messages are introduced into the transport system, they are often prepended with additional header fields such as trace fields (described in section 3.6.7) and resent fields (described in section 3.6.6). The addition of such header fields does not change the identity of the message and therefore the original "Message-ID:" field is retained. In all cases, it is the meaning that the sender of the message wishes to convey (i.e., whether this is the same message or a different message) that determines whether or not the "Message-ID:" field changes, not any particular syntactic difference that appears (or does not appear) in the message. (RFC 5322) I don't see the bit about "discard". If your MUA were to discard any message it saw twice, you'd never receive a bounce, and would be mystified about what was happening to those messages. If your Mail Submission Agent or any Mail Transport Agent along the way discarded "duplicates", how would you send the same message to more than one recipient? Ditto for your own MTA receiving messages for users on your system. Cheers, David.
Re: Mailing list usage questions
to...@tuxteam.de writes: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 12:38:37PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:12â¯PM The Wanderer > > wrote: > > > > > > ... > > > Some mail services apparently treat this "discard incoming messages that > > > look like duplicates of ones you already have a copy of" behavior as a > > > feature; Gmail is the best-known example. That has problems when (as > > > with this mailing list) the incoming copy is not identical to the one > > > that was sent, even though it has the same Message-ID, but AFAIK they > > > don't seem to care. > > > > I believe Message-Id's are supposed to be unique across space and > > time. It sounds like discarding the duplicate is expected behavior (to > > me). > FWIW, DKIM is not mailing list friendly. The DKIM signatures are from the list, and does not match the sender domain name, preventing DKIM authentication, even though the Message-ID:, References:, In-Reply-To: SMTP header records are correct. Exactly how the MTA handles this situation is kind of undocumented, and left up to the MTA's configuration, which varies from one philosophy to the next. John -- John Conover, cono...@panix.com, http://www.johncon.com/
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 2:06 PM wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 02:02:39PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > [...] > > > If you wish to wander from the convention, then don't be surprised > > when unexpected things happen. > > Unexpected things happen to me all the time -- the least of them are > related to Message-IDs. My Message-IDs are fine, thankyouverymuch :) ??? Still it doesn't make much sense discarding incoming messages which match the IDs of outgoing ones. Does it make sense now, or are switching arguments? A red-herring fallacy is a diversionary tactic. Jeff
Black screens on old nVidia card
My tower (running Bullseye) has been suffering the black screen of... well, not quite death (I can ssh in from another machine and look at things), but it's certainly unusable for normal purposes. I have an old nVidia video card; I've always had a bit of trouble with it, but things got better when I replaced nouveau with the appropriate proprietary nVidia driver (currently version 390.157). But lately things have been getting worse; it might be only minutes before my screens go black, and the only way to get things back is to ssh in from another machine and force a re-boot, or reach for the Big Red Switch. $ uname -a Linux killer-penguin 5.10.0-19-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.149-2 (2022-10-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux $ lsb_release -a Distributor ID: Debian Description:Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Release:11 Codename: bullseye $ cat /etc/debian_version 11.5 $ lspci -v 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF108 [GeForce GT 630] (rev ff) (prog-if ff) !!! Unknown header type 7f Kernel driver in use: nvidia Kernel modules: nvidia $ top top - 09:16:25 up 1:08, 2 users, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00 Tasks: 192 total, 2 running, 190 sleeping0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 25.0 us, 0.0 sy, 0.0 ni, 71.3 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st MiB Mem : 7900.4 total, 6840.5 free,513.5 used,546.7 buff/cache MiB Swap: 16384.0 total, 16384.0 free, 0.0 used. 7126.4 avail Mem PID USER PR NIVIRTRESSHR S %CPU %MEM Time+ Command 865 root 20 0 278732 105992 55708 R 100.0 1.3 48:37:59 Xorg A tail of dmesg yields the following messages: [ 1406.213319] NVRM: GPU at PCI::01:00: GPU-d7903bd4-9549-9f07-5796-886c12d2031c [ 1406.213322] NVRM: Xid (PCI::01:00): 79, GPU has fallen off the bus. [ 1406.213324] NVRM: GPU at :01:00.0 has fallen off the bus. [ 1406.213329] NVRM: A GPU crash dump has been created. If possible, please run NVRM: nvidia-bug-report.sh as root to collect this data before NVRM: the NVIDIA kernel module is unloaded. [ 1416.567009] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:0:0:0x000f [ 1416.567013] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:1:0:0x000f [ 1416.590288] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:0:0:0x000f [ 1416.590292] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:1:0:0x000f [ 1416.590682] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:0:0:0x000f [ 1416.590686] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:1:0:0x000f [ 1416.591011] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:0:0:0x000f [ 1416.591015] nvidia-modeset: ERROR: GPU:0: Failed to query display engine channel state: 0x857c:1:0:0x000f "GPU has fallen off the bus" looks suspicious. Yes, that video card is pretty long in the tooth; I'd gladly replace it if a new board will solve the problem. (If not, why bother? It works well enough for my purposes.) I tried running nvidia-bug-report.sh as recommended in the dmesg dump. It generated a _lot_ of data. Is there a guide to interpreting it? I did notice the following lines: (==) Matched nvidia as autoconfigured driver 0 (==) Matched nouveau as autoconfigured driver 1 Does this mean that nouveau is still there and possibly causing a conflict? Can anyone suggest where to look next? Thanks... -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ /| It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. |-- Lily Tomlin
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 05:37:32PM +, Albretch Mueller wrote: > It is not with every site and it is mostly with one hop. > $ traceroute google.com > traceroute to google.com (172.217.0.174), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets > 1 _gateway (199.83.128.1) 6.687 ms 6.660 ms 6.683 ms > 2 199.83.240.2 (199.83.240.2) 6.101 ms 6.622 ms 6.610 ms > 3 ad.nypl.org (199.254.254.1) 6.600 ms 6.588 ms 6.577 ms > 4 199.254.252.1 (199.254.252.1) 6.566 ms 6.590 ms 6.738 ms > 5 * * * > . . . > 30 * * * First you have to understand how traceroute works. It's like ping, except that instead of just sending out a stream of normal packets, one per second, and noting the reply times, it sends out a bunch of packets with increasing Time To Live fields. Each router along the path to the destination decreases the TTL field, and if it's negative (or zero?) at any given point, that hop is supposed to return a "Time Exceeded" response. (Time is a badly chosen word here; it's a hop number, not an actual time interval, that's being counted.) So, in theory, you should get one Time Exceeded response from each router along the path. That's what traceroute shows you. However, some routers may choose not to honor this, and do not send a Time Exceeded response to you. Or, in some cases, the response packet may simply be lost in transit. Those are the hops where traceroute shows * * *. An example from my system: unicorn:~$ traceroute www.google.com traceroute to www.google.com (142.250.190.4), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 routerlogin.net (10.0.0.1) 0.413 ms 0.355 ms 0.415 ms 2 65-131-222-254.mnfd.centurylink.net (65.131.222.254) 38.070 ms 39.776 ms 36.299 ms 3 75.160.81.21 (75.160.81.21) 41.687 ms 45.801 ms 39.873 ms 4 * * * 5 ae0.11.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.151.242) 56.715 ms ae14.14.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.216.246) 56.550 ms ae0.11.bar2.Toronto1.level3.net (4.69.151.242) 58.637 ms [...] No response was received from hop number 4, so traceroute shows me * * * there.
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 12:38:37 -0400
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
Hello Jeffrey,
>I don't think I would blame GMail for that. Maybe it's the sender's MUA?
It's well known that google discard what they see as 'duplicate'
messages. It is nothing to do with the sender's MUA.
Always remember google's 'email' offering is non-RFC compliant in
various areas, and should therefore be treated with suspicion.
--
Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Only the wounded remain, the generals have all left the game
Generals - The Damned
pgpm6pmhZF4c8.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 02:02:39PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: [...] > If you wish to wander from the convention, then don't be surprised > when unexpected things happen. Unexpected things happen to me all the time -- the least of them are related to Message-IDs. My Message-IDs are fine, thankyouverymuch :) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 05:37:32PM +, Albretch Mueller wrote: > I have found a few examples and "explanations" but in the cases of > the examples I have seen by other people, like: Quoth the man page: This program attempts to trace the route an IP packet would follow to some internet host by launching probe packets with a small ttl (time to live) then listening for an ICMP "time exceeded" reply from a gateway. We start our probes with a ttl of one and increase by one until we get an ICMP "port unreachable" (or TCP reset), which means we got to the "host", or hit a max (which defaults to 30 hops) [...] If there is no response within a certain timeout, an "*" (asterisk) is printed for that probe. So that means that the probe for the TTL in question "got lost": either the router at that distance doesn't want to send an ICMP our way or there's something in between eating ICMPs. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 1:52 PM wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 12:38:37PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:12 PM The Wanderer wrote: > > > > > > ... > > > Some mail services apparently treat this "discard incoming messages that > > > look like duplicates of ones you already have a copy of" behavior as a > > > feature; Gmail is the best-known example. That has problems when (as > > > with this mailing list) the incoming copy is not identical to the one > > > that was sent, even though it has the same Message-ID, but AFAIK they > > > don't seem to care. > > > > I believe Message-Id's are supposed to be unique across space and > > time. It sounds like discarding the duplicate is expected behavior (to > > me). > > Still it doesn't make much sense discarding incoming messages which > match the IDs of outgoing ones. Most (nearly all?) mail agents follow the RFCs. The RFCs say a Message-Id is unique across space and time. A duplicate Message-Id means a duplicate message. If you wish to wander from the convention, then don't be surprised when unexpected things happen. Jeff
Re: What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
Le 12 avril 2023 Albretch Mueller a écrit : > It is not with every site and it is mostly with one hop. I my case it > is with all sites and once the packets reach the web (from hop 5 to > 30), from wherever I connect to the Internet. Why would that happen > and why would that -consistently- "happen" to me? The last hop doesn't forward your packet. If you still can ping a site or simply consult it it should be the last hop filtering the packet type used by traceroute. You can try traceroute with icmp or tcp packet to check if this is the point.
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 06:40:45PM +0200, zithro wrote: [...] > > But they don't work for you. > > Well, in a sense, yes, and freely ^^ You don't want to be convinced, I don't want to be convinced, so let's be nice to the rest of humankind and shut up now. [...] > Ah ah, this answer ... "I know but I'll keep it for myself". Very nice ! > BTW, security by obscurity is a delusion. Zuboff, Shoshana (2019). The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power. London: Profile Books. ISBN 978-1-78125-685-5 [1] > If only you were less cryptic I could answer. Please don't and let's put this to rest. Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshana_Zuboff#Surveillance_capitalism -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 12:38:37PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:12 PM The Wanderer wrote: > > > > ... > > Some mail services apparently treat this "discard incoming messages that > > look like duplicates of ones you already have a copy of" behavior as a > > feature; Gmail is the best-known example. That has problems when (as > > with this mailing list) the incoming copy is not identical to the one > > that was sent, even though it has the same Message-ID, but AFAIK they > > don't seem to care. > > I believe Message-Id's are supposed to be unique across space and > time. It sounds like discarding the duplicate is expected behavior (to > me). Still it doesn't make much sense discarding incoming messages which match the IDs of outgoing ones. I do have a filter on duplicate IDs, but (a) the cache is limited (for a good reason, some incompetent implementations *cough* Microsoft *cough*) still seem to get that wrong, and (b) I don't put outgoing messages in there, for another good reason (on mailing lists, I see that the message has made it *and* my threading works "naturally"). > I don't think I would blame GMail for that. Maybe it's the sender's MUA? I /would/ blame them for that if there weren't far worse things to blame them for, Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
SQUASHFS error: Unable to read fragment cache entry ...
I always use a Debian live DVD while exposed. The thing is that in order to squeeze every minute of attention I possibly can I tend to: a) just close the lid of my laptop b) while keeping the DVD player attached to the laptop c) then, reopen it and continue. That way I avoid like 5 minutes of configuration time. Not always, but most of the times I start getting those kinds of errors. Basically, I need to be able to close my laptop and pack it up while I am going from point A to B and then take it out and continue. How do you guys to that? I mean, "you guys who must use live DVD" ;-) Any helpful tip would be appreciated! lbrtchx
Re: Riddling over systemctl, pulseaudio, firefox-esr, and salsa.debian.org
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 06:33:49PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > i wrote: > > > But why does it [pulseaudio] stay modest until i go to > > > https://salsa.debian.org/groups/optical-media-team/-/activity > > > and why does it stay busy after i left that page ? > > Henning Follmann wrote: > > I am pretty sure this is just coincidence. > > I tried at least three times while watching activity by top(1). The browser > has a dozen tabs. First i visited others, then the tab with above URL. Each > time the activity increase happened exactly when i went to that tab. > > But now i repeated the experiments and found that the effect is not so > clearly to reproduce. There seems to be a significant preference for > Gitlab sites to trigger pulseaudio's activity, but i also had system > sessions where i could not reproduce it at all. Perhaps the browser is trying to do some kind of notification via audio? I have one instance of a browser which shouldn't be able to talk (since @#%&* firefox insisted on talking only to Pulseaudio, I have to enable an instance explicitly with apulse, so I know that one should be mute) but still it manages to make some noises for "desktop notifications". In a nutshell, audio without audio is still possible :) There are some "notification" entries in about:config worth investigating. And indeed, the one browser instance (I keep most of them to separate profiles, this one is dedicated to one of those jarring corporate chat apps) making the noises does show having received notification requests from the web site I expected (this is somewhere in about:preferences#privacy, under "Permissions"). Perhaps it's that. Good luck -- tomás signature.asc Description: PGP signature
What do all those "* * *" mean on a traceroute log?
I have found a few examples and "explanations" but in the cases of the examples I have seen by other people, like: https://serverfault.com/questions/733005/what-does-having-mean-in-the-command-traceroute-and-how-can-you-cope-wit It is not with every site and it is mostly with one hop. I my case it is with all sites and once the packets reach the web (from hop 5 to 30), from wherever I connect to the Internet. Why would that happen and why would that -consistently- "happen" to me? $ traceroute google.com traceroute to google.com (172.217.0.174), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 _gateway (199.83.128.1) 6.687 ms 6.660 ms 6.683 ms 2 199.83.240.2 (199.83.240.2) 6.101 ms 6.622 ms 6.610 ms 3 ad.nypl.org (199.254.254.1) 6.600 ms 6.588 ms 6.577 ms 4 199.254.252.1 (199.254.252.1) 6.566 ms 6.590 ms 6.738 ms 5 * * * . . . 30 * * * $ traceroute microsoft.com traceroute to microsoft.com (20.81.111.85), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 _gateway (199.83.128.1) 12.353 ms 12.319 ms 12.306 ms 2 199.83.240.2 (199.83.240.2) 11.803 ms 12.281 ms 12.268 ms 3 ad.nypl.org (199.254.254.1) 12.256 ms 12.244 ms 12.231 ms 4 199.254.252.1 (199.254.252.1) 12.255 ms 12.243 ms 12.511 ms 5 * * * . . . 30 * * * $ traceroute debian.org traceroute to debian.org (149.20.4.15), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 _gateway (199.83.128.1) 16.821 ms 17.804 ms 17.784 ms 2 199.83.240.2 (199.83.240.2) 4.739 ms 5.086 ms 5.070 ms 3 ad.nypl.org (199.254.254.1) 5.054 ms 5.389 ms 5.023 ms 4 199.254.252.1 (199.254.252.1) 6.805 ms 6.282 ms 6.773 ms 5 * * * . . . 30 * * * lbrtchx
Re: Mailing list usage questions
zithro writes: > To not have to handle issues with security or availability of an own > mail server. I use pobox.com's paid service. Email is their business. I run Postfix locally using the Pobox server as a smarthost and use Fetchmail to download my mail every five minutes. Best of both worlds, and I have my own domain so that I can easily relocate to another service with minimal disruption. I don't want to rely on a promotional giveaway from an advertising agency for an important service like email. > Google's engineers are way better than me ; ) Perhaps, but Google is an advertising agency and they are giving away the service you are using. The revenue per user that they get by extracting marketable data from their user's emails has to be slim, and that has to pay those engineers. How is their support? How quickly do they respond to trouble reports? And, of course, you have no contract with Google. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:12 PM The Wanderer wrote: > > ... > Some mail services apparently treat this "discard incoming messages that > look like duplicates of ones you already have a copy of" behavior as a > feature; Gmail is the best-known example. That has problems when (as > with this mailing list) the incoming copy is not identical to the one > that was sent, even though it has the same Message-ID, but AFAIK they > don't seem to care. I believe Message-Id's are supposed to be unique across space and time. It sounds like discarding the duplicate is expected behavior (to me). I don't think I would blame GMail for that. Maybe it's the sender's MUA? Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message-ID . Jeff
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 18:12, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 06:00:25PM +0200, zithro wrote: On 12 Apr 2023 11:21, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 08:23:23AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:08:51 + "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: Hello Andrew, If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see a copy turn up in your mailing list mails Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google. Now why would you want to do that? Cheers To not have to handle issues with security or availability of an own mail server. Google's engineers are way better than me ; ) But they don't work for you. Well, in a sense, yes, and freely ^^ Concerning *security* only, so *not privacy*, I trust them way more than any random sysadmin in his den, including me (who followed security courses). I suggest reading some of Mitnick's books, and how he had fun with some AT&T servers. Comparing entire security teams with an enthousiast is ... out of this world. What's the problem letting Google or w/e email service reading emails from a *public* mailing list ? If you don't understand the problems I think I won't be able to explain them to you. There's good literature out there. Ah ah, this answer ... "I know but I'll keep it for myself". Very nice ! BTW, security by obscurity is a delusion. If only you were less cryptic I could answer. The mails in my mailbox contain the exact same data as can be found on "lists.debian.org". They're both mirrors. So AI training works the same, if that's what you're implying.
Re: Riddling over systemctl, pulseaudio, firefox-esr, and salsa.debian.org
Hi, i wrote: > > But why does it [pulseaudio] stay modest until i go to > > https://salsa.debian.org/groups/optical-media-team/-/activity > > and why does it stay busy after i left that page ? Henning Follmann wrote: > I am pretty sure this is just coincidence. I tried at least three times while watching activity by top(1). The browser has a dozen tabs. First i visited others, then the tab with above URL. Each time the activity increase happened exactly when i went to that tab. But now i repeated the experiments and found that the effect is not so clearly to reproduce. There seems to be a significant preference for Gitlab sites to trigger pulseaudio's activity, but i also had system sessions where i could not reproduce it at all. Even worse, i had one occasion where https://www.gnu.org/software/xorriso/ triggered the activity after i had hopped over several other URLS, including https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/brasero/-/issues/357 https://salsa.debian.org/groups/optical-media-team/-/activity Of course i waited the due time after each hop so that changes of activity would become visible in top. The cherry on the cake was firefox-esr starting up with the tab that shows https://askubuntu.com/questions/1436035/xorriso-image-remaster-unable-to-find-a-medium-containing-a-live-filesystem-ub/1436235#1436235 and immediately triggering the activity of pulseaudio. At that point i concluded that the only way to permanently control this madness is systemctl --global disable pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 06:00:25PM +0200, zithro wrote: > On 12 Apr 2023 11:21, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 08:23:23AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:08:51 + > > > "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > > > > > > Hello Andrew, > > > > > > > If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see > > > > a copy turn up in your mailing list mails > > > > > > Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google. > > > > Now why would you want to do that? > > > > Cheers > > To not have to handle issues with security or availability of > an own mail server. > Google's engineers are way better than me ; ) But they don't work for you. > What's the problem letting Google or w/e email service reading > emails from a *public* mailing list ? If you don't understand the problems I think I won't be able to explain them to you. There's good literature out there. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 11:21, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 08:23:23AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:08:51 + "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: Hello Andrew, If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see a copy turn up in your mailing list mails Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google. Now why would you want to do that? Cheers To not have to handle issues with security or availability of an own mail server. Google's engineers are way better than me ; ) What's the problem letting Google or w/e email service reading emails from a *public* mailing list ?
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 13:54, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see a copy turn up in your mailing list mails Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google. Now why would you want to do that? I have experience. Gmail eat one message if that is duplicated. Thanks, that's what's happening ! So you just move your own emails from "Sent" to the "ML folder" ?
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On 12 Apr 2023 04:12, The Wanderer wrote: Some mail services apparently treat this "discard incoming messages that look like duplicates of ones you already have a copy of" behavior as a feature; Gmail is the best-known example. That has problems when (as with this mailing list) the incoming copy is not identical to the one that was sent, even though it has the same Message-ID, but AFAIK they don't seem to care. Thanks for the details ! This is exactly what's happening.
Re: how to change default nameserver?
On 11 Apr 2023 22:28, gene heskett wrote: On 4/11/23 13:36, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: There are a bunch of cups manpages: there are lots of documents online. The people recommending you avahi/bonjour/zeroconf are recommending it because it works - for them and for 99.9% of people. And its both a lockin for apple, and denies the feature the printer maker puts into his product. And I'm purist enough to object the both. For future readers : this is plain wrong. This is a perfect example of "assuming without knowing". It's a bit like saying "TCP/IP was invented for the DARPA, and I'm a pacifist, so screw it" (note it's only a metaphor). A simple web search is enough to understand what a *protocol* is, and what those particular protocols/software suites are, and are for. Approximation : it's like an automatic enhanced DHCP protocol. As Andrew says, it works for 99.9% of the users, and is recommended to people who : - don't know how to configure things, or - don't want to configure manually, or - don't care how things work But of course, and contrary to my metaphor about TCP/IP, avahi/bonjour/zeroconf is NOT required when you know what you are doing and/or you follow usual best practices. It's an helper protocol, not a required one. And as every protocol, you are tied to how the vendors implement them.
Re: Riddling over systemctl, pulseaudio, firefox-esr, and salsa.debian.org
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 06:49:52AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 12:34:55PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > > Hi, > > > > David Wright wrote: > > > googling pulseaudio cpu usage produces a lot of hits. > > > > Yes. But why does it stay modest until i go to > > https://salsa.debian.org/groups/optical-media-team/-/activity > > and why does it stay busy after i left that page ? > > > > > > I am pretty sure this is just coincidence. Knowing Thomas, I'd venture the guess that the coincidence is repeatable (on his system, at least). > I did the exact thing you descibed, nothing happened, before or after > pening the page. This is probably a welcome data point (I have no pulseaudio running, so I can't check myself). Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
>> >If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see >> >a copy turn up in your mailing list mails >> >> Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google. > > Now why would you want to do that? I have experience. Gmail eat one message if that is duplicated. Sincerely, -- ^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//
Re: update-initramfs
On 2023-04-12 at 07:44, Michel Verdier wrote: > Le 12 avril 2023 The Wanderer a écrit : > >> Without anything more, wouldn't that just result in an extra >> GRUB-menu entry pointing to the same copy of the kernel/etc.? > > Of course he can change menuentry to point to another kernel/initram From what I understand matters, the problem is that after he creates the copy of the initrd, update-initramfs (as run by update-grub) fails, because the underlying files which it thinks would be needed by an initrd with the filename that the copy has don't exist. >> As I think I understand matters, the goal is to have a duplicate >> copy of the kernel/etc. *and* a separate GRUB menu entry pointing >> to it, so that if something blows away or otherwise messes up the >> original the duplicate is still around to serve as a fallback. > > Yes if he points menuentry to the backup he got this fallback. The question would therefore be how to have the backup copy without resulting in this update-initramfs failure happening. About the only possibility I can think of would be to *also* copy the respective underlying files, so that they are available under the name update-initramfs expects to see. That would probably make the backup - and the process of creating it - noticeably more unwieldy, however. And it's entirely possible that there's some aspect of the process I'm not seeing which would mean that that wouldn't work. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: update-initramfs
Le 12 avril 2023 The Wanderer a écrit : > Without anything more, wouldn't that just result in an extra GRUB-menu > entry pointing to the same copy of the kernel/etc.? Of course he can change menuentry to point to another kernel/initram > As I think I understand matters, the goal is to have a duplicate copy of > the kernel/etc. *and* a separate GRUB menu entry pointing to it, so that > if something blows away or otherwise messes up the original the > duplicate is still around to serve as a fallback. Yes if he points menuentry to the backup he got this fallback.
Re: update-initramfs
On 2023-04-11 at 22:30, Michel Verdier wrote: > Le 11 avril 2023 davidson a écrit : >> I believe the OP just wants an extra entry in his grub menu that >> will boot a redundant copy of his latest working kernel. (But that >> is only my understanding, which might be wrong. OP can speak for >> himself on this point.) > > Ok to cover grub menu you just have to had it in /etc/grub.d. You > simply copy a block menuentry from /boot/grub/grub.cfg and put it in > something like /etc/grub.d/40_custom. In the copy you can change > kernel params, etc. update-grub will include it in generated > grub.cfg. Without anything more, wouldn't that just result in an extra GRUB-menu entry pointing to the same copy of the kernel/etc.? As I think I understand matters, the goal is to have a duplicate copy of the kernel/etc. *and* a separate GRUB menu entry pointing to it, so that if something blows away or otherwise messes up the original the duplicate is still around to serve as a fallback. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: update-initramfs
On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 davidson wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 davidson wrote: I haven't tried booting yet with my "5.10.0-21-amd63-kg" initrd, though. I'll leave that to you, if you want to try. Boot went fine, but it is worth mentioning that grub-update *update-grub decided that the "5.10.0-21-amd63-kg" copy of the 5.10.0-21-amd64 kernel should be the default grub entry. -- Sometimes it pays to have squirrels in your head running around making you question everything. -- Clive Robinson
Re: update-initramfs
On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 davidson wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 Marc Auslander wrote: On 4/10/2023 11:00 PM, David Wright wrote: On Mon 10 Apr 2023 at 20:17:11 (-0400), Marc Auslander wrote: I'm on Buster. In /boot I keep a copy of the current working linux named by appending -knowngood to the four files. My idea is that if an update fails, I have a recent working linux. This is different from vmlinuz.old which is the previous kernel version. The updates in question are not to the kernel but to initrd.image of course. Suddenly, update-initramfs insists in trying to first update initrd.-knowngood which of course fails because there are no underling file with that name. This never happened in the past, AFAIK. Once it fails it gives up. There seems no way to force update-initramfs to update the right kernel. [trim] # update-initramfs -u # update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-21-amd64 # update-grub Generating grub configuration file ... Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-21-amd63-kg Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-21-amd63-kg Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-21-amd64 Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-21-amd64 Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-23-amd64 Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-4.19.0-23-amd64 Warning: os-prober will be executed to detect other bootable partitions. Its output will be used to detect bootable binaries on them and create new boot entries. done So update-grub didn't seem to complain. I haven't tried booting yet with my "5.10.0-21-amd63-kg" initrd, though. I'll leave that to you, if you want to try. Boot went fine, but it is worth mentioning that grub-update decided that the "5.10.0-21-amd63-kg" copy of the 5.10.0-21-amd64 kernel should be the default grub entry. -- Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures. -- Vladimir Putin
Re: Riddling over systemctl, pulseaudio, firefox-esr, and salsa.debian.org
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 12:34:55PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > David Wright wrote: > > googling pulseaudio cpu usage produces a lot of hits. > > Yes. But why does it stay modest until i go to > https://salsa.debian.org/groups/optical-media-team/-/activity > and why does it stay busy after i left that page ? > > I am pretty sure this is just coincidence. That page does not have any media content so firefox does not try to play anythink there. I did the exact thing you descibed, nothing happened, before or after pening the page. -H -- Henning Follmann | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com
Re: ICMP router advertisement (ipv4)
Anssi Saari wrote: > If "public IPv4 address" is not understood by you it can also be > formulated as "the OP has an RFC1918 IPv4 address which is not routable > on the public internet and hence a 6to4 tunnel can't work for him." Oh, it's hidden behind CGNAT. No, that won't work. My mistake. -dsr-
Re: Riddling over systemctl, pulseaudio, firefox-esr, and salsa.debian.org
Hi, David Wright wrote: > googling pulseaudio cpu usage produces a lot of hits. Yes. But why does it stay modest until i go to https://salsa.debian.org/groups/optical-media-team/-/activity and why does it stay busy after i left that page ? I wrote: > > Next riddle is how i could keep pulseaudio from being started automatically > > for my desktop user. I understand from web and man page of systemctl that > > systemctl --user disable pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket > > should do the trick. > > But on next boot and login (even via ssh) there is again a pulseaudio > > instance running with my desktop user id. David Wright wrote: > I'm guessing from what Michel Verdier wrote elsewhere that you > have to create a symlink, pointing at /dev/null, somewhere in > ~/.config/systemd/user/. I would have expected that systemctl knows how do do it. Maybe a master in dialectics can decode this statement from man systemctl: "Depending on whether --system, --user, --runtime, or --global is specified, this enables the unit for the system, for the calling user only, for only this boot of the system, or for all future logins of all users." This is with "enable" but later the section for "disable" states. "This command honors --system, --user, --runtime and --global in a similar way as enable." I would conclude from "--runtime [...] for only this boot of the system" that the others have a lasting effect. But on the other hand, only "--global" mentions "for all future logins". So the description seems to give the implementation much room for interpretation. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 08:23:23AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:08:51 + > "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > > Hello Andrew, > > >If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see > >a copy turn up in your mailing list mails > > Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google. Now why would you want to do that? Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list usage questions
On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:08:51 +
"Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote:
Hello Andrew,
>If you are subscribed to the mailing list and you post, you should see
>a copy turn up in your mailing list mails
Unless your email provider is google, or somebody covertly using google.
--
Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You destroyed my confidence, you broke my nerve
Nervous Wreck - Radio Stars
pgpWQ2jbP4iEU.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
