Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[tomas]

On Sat, May 06, 2023 at 10:24:52AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 05/05/2023 20:04, zithro wrote:
> > journalctl after GUI LOGOFF
> 
> I do not see obvious problems. What might be inspected more closely:
> 
> > May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: Stopping D-Bus User Message Bus...
>^^^
> If it is the bus shared with ssh connection than it may be an issue,
> however it is for systemd unit, real process may be running independently.

This would be easy to find out. @zithro: how many instances of dbus
are running once you have started all your processes *and* logged
in to the DE session?

If it's only one user dbus, then logging out is taking that one away.

Perhaps this would be an interesting data point:

 1 ps wwaux | grep dbus; keep the result
 2 start all your programs; don't log in into your DE yet
 3 repeat 1
 4 log into your DE
 5 repeat 1
 6 log out; your programs get killed
 7 repeat 1

Now compare the results of 1, 3, 5 and 7. Then,we would know whether
your DE is re-using the user session bus (possibly) started at 2
and taking it out at 6.

This is my hunch.

Then, at least, you'd know whom to yell at :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: disk usage for /usr/lib on bullseye

[David Wright]

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 14:35:08 (+), Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> As I was trying to find out what would work and if I was doing something 
> wrong getting rid of old kernels
> 
> After upgrading a new kernel for a week I will do apt autoremove to get rid 
> of the old kernel(s).

And this will produce the situation you have with 16 and 17:

  linutr:/usr/lib/modules# du * -sh
  4.7M5.10.0-16-amd64
  4.7M5.10.0-17-amd64
  309M5.10.0-18-amd64
  309M5.10.0-19-amd64
  309M5.10.0-20-amd64
  309M5.10.0-21-amd64

You need to run   apt --purge autoremove   in order to remove the
files that aren't in the linux-package that you installed. Look:

  $ ls -Glg /lib/modules/5.10.0-21-amd64/ 
  total 4968
  drwxr-xr-x 124096 Jan 23 21:45 kernel
  -rw-r--r--  1 1241172 Jan 23 21:46 modules.alias
  -rw-r--r--  1 1187730 Jan 23 21:46 modules.alias.bin
  -rw-r--r--  15541 Jan 21 08:35 modules.builtin
  -rw-r--r--  1   0 Jan 23 21:46 modules.builtin.alias.bin
  -rw-r--r--  16754 Jan 23 21:46 modules.builtin.bin
  -rw-r--r--  1   38430 Jan 21 08:35 modules.builtin.modinfo
  -rw-r--r--  1  498055 Jan 23 21:46 modules.dep
  -rw-r--r--  1  671751 Jan 23 21:46 modules.dep.bin
  -rw-r--r--  1 476 Jan 23 21:46 modules.devname
  -rw-r--r--  1  154011 Jan 21 08:35 modules.order
  -rw-r--r--  11067 Jan 23 21:46 modules.softdep
  -rw-r--r--  1  562879 Jan 23 21:46 modules.symbols
  -rw-r--r--  1  685618 Jan 23 21:46 modules.symbols.bin
  $ 

apt (auto)remove   only removes the package files, dated Jan 21.
The ones here dated Jan 23 were generated when the package was
installed, and are only removed when you /purge/ the package.

> Debian will automatically keep the current kernel and the previous in the 
> /boot folder.
> Somehow, I get the feeling there either is a bug which causes the 
> /usr/lib/modules/ folder not to be cleaned up or there are somehow links to 
> it from packages that were updated when a specific kernel was active.

> But is this a bug in the cleanup of an old kernel or are there realy 
> links to the old modules, links that are now broken?
> If it s a bug, who will report it? I know only enough to report the symptoms.

Someone who demonstrates it. AFAICT you don't seem to be aware of
the --purge option and the necessity of using it here, and have
likely just forgotten to even run apt autoremove in the case of
versions 18 and 19 above (where the modules are also present).

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 11:54:55 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 02:35:08PM +, Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> > Just created a snapshot of my servers and then did:
[ … ]
> It seems like you're just trying random commands without understanding
> what they do.

Agreed. It makes you wonder how much in this thread that was written
about these commands has been absorbed.

> > I am now cleaning some by hand. Running kernel -22 and having -21 as backup 
> > kernel I did:
> > x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-16-amd64/
> > x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-17-amd64/
> > x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-18-amd64/
> 
> One imagines that if you simply purged all of the kernel packages that
> had been autoremoved, this would clean up the modules.  But I'm not
> 100% sure about that.  If you've got modules that were built by dkms
> for example, I don't know whether those would be removed.

Custom modules would remain, and the rest of the directory tree
removed. This is confirmed by the postrm script, which disposes
of the equivalents to those files dated Jan 23 above.

  if [ "$1" = purge ]; then
  for extra_file in modules.dep modules.isapnpmap modules.pcimap \
modules.usbmap modules.parportmap \
modules.generic_string modules.ieee1394map \
modules.ieee1394map modules.pnpbiosmap \
modules.alias modules.ccwmap modules.inputmap \
modules.symbols modules.ofmap \
modules.seriomap modules.\*.bin \
modules.softdep modules.devname; do
  eval rm -f /lib/modules/$version/$extra_file
  done
  rmdir /lib/modules/$version || true
  fi

> It would be nice to know whether you had to do this "rm -r" because the
> "dpkg --purge linux-image-5.10.0-16-amd64" failed to remove the modules,
> or whether you simply did not KNOW to try the dpkg --purge first.

I don't think dpkg had yet been suggested as a solution, but it would
do just the same thing, because that is what APT itself uses of course.
Again, custom files would remain, with the usual

  dpkg: warning: while removing x, directory 'y' not empty so not removed

message as a reminder.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[David Wright]

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 13:59:37 (+0200), zithro wrote:
> On 05 May 2023 07:33, David wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 May 2023 at 19:07, zithro  wrote:
> > 
> > > this is a rather strange problem, I hope the title is explicit enough.
> > 
> > Subject: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections
> > started previously from outside X
> 
> Yeah, I meant title==subject, I was hoping it was clear enough for everyone.
> Why did you copy it ? ^^

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/04/msg01060.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[David Wright]

On Sat 06 May 2023 at 09:57:30 (+0700), Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 05/05/2023 10:30, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 05 May 2023 at 09:13:04 (+0700), Max Nikulin wrote:
> > > On 05/05/2023 02:07, zithro wrote:
> > > > 2. using VNC or rdesktop, I then log on to X on the machine, do
> > > > some stuff, then hit "log off" from the desktop menu.
> > > > Immediately, ALL the previous SSH connections started in step 1
> > > > get closed, hence all the shells and the GUI apps (firefox, etc) !
> ...
> > > A wild guess is that it might be force close of systemd user session,
> > > however it should not happen.
> ...
> > Isn't it this issue?
> > 
> > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19023885
> 
> The discussion is too long.

Yes, I'm not sure I've ever reached the end. If a discussion touches
on systemd, then everybody seems to need to get there view out there.

> I am aware of "loginctl enable-linger" and
> of user logout timeout, but I have no reason to experiment with them
> in action yet.

Yes, and terminate-user seems effectively to be what happens when you
don't use linger.

> I have read somewhere that ability to kill all user processes on
> logout was a design requirement for systemd. It must have when a
> computer is not really "personal": classrooms, public spaces like
> libraries. The implementation is to put user's processes into a
> cgroup. I hope, recipes to disable such behavior work well. Default
> behavior may be disputed, but I would not complain that such feature
> exists. If unrelated (ssh) session is killed on (DE) logout due to
> disabled lingering than it is a bug.

I think it's argued that it was desirable on grounds of security, but
is a compile-time option that most distributions have left as the
default. I think it exploits the kernel cgroups, which prevent
processes from being cast adrift as they were in the past (by
double-forking, etc). Such processes can now be grimly reaped when
a user logs out and all their resources are returned.

Raise that argument for security, and of course you get replies
criticising the increased attack surface of systemd, or criticising
the change in behaviour from the traditional default, or etc etc.

> Systemd configuration might be an issue. As I wrote earlier, I agree
> that D-Bus is more probable. It might be PAM configuration for D-Bus
> session or systemd user session, it might be some scripts executed on
> logout by desktop environment or by login manager. Debugging may take
> enough time.

It's an area I haven't needed to delve into, and that may be because
I don't use DMs and DEs. I can't replicate zithro's Step 2. I run
multiple ssh sessions to remote machines, and I run VNC with
tightvncserver and xtightvncviewer, but they all seem independent from
one another, and never get implicitly killed off.

I login to VC1, and startx for an Xserver. I run clients on this and
other machines, the latter via ssh -X. That's most of Step 1, except
that I don't see a "greeter". Were I to run "ssh -X -n user@host GUI_APP"
on a VC, I'd get Can't open display, but prefixed with DISPLAY=:0, the
application would open on my Xserver, and the VC would wait for it to
be terminated before issuing another prompt. Is the greeter just
deferring the ssh command until you login?

So I suppose the difference is that when I kill my Xserver, I'm
returned to VC1, but not logged off. The question I'll not ask is
why do you logoff? Or maybe I will.

Cheers,
David.

Re: I installed 11.6

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

 writes:

> On Fri, 5 May 2023 23:27:45 -0400
> Maureen L Thomas  wrote:
>
>> that I hate upgrading because they change everything 
>
> (...) Your window manager and
> other similar settings are stored in your home directory.

+1; Upgrading don't touch user's settings.

Sincerely, Byung-Hee (Debian Bullseye user)

Re: I installed 11.6

[Charles Curley]

On Fri, 5 May 2023 23:27:45 -0400
Maureen L Thomas  wrote:

> I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7.
> Does anyone know which utility changes the window settings.

That would depend on which window manager|desktop you have installed.

On the off chance that it is XFCE, Applications (upper left corner) ->
Settings -> Window Manager, Window Manager Tweaks. And possibly others
in Settings.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: I installed 11.6

[paulf]

On Fri, 5 May 2023 23:27:45 -0400
Maureen L Thomas  wrote:

> I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7. I
> must say that I hate upgrading because they change everything and I
> cannot find the utilities I need to make this the way I want it.
> Does anyone know which utility changes the window settings. Like the
> X in the upper right hand corner.  I want all three items including
> the - and the box.
> 
> Thank you guys for all your help.
> 

This won't help you now, but in the future. Your window manager and
other similar settings are stored in your home directory. If you
maintain your home directory on a separate drive, and don't allow the
install process to touch it, your window manager settings should be
preserved (assuming you use the same window manager in your new
install).

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

I installed 11.6

[Maureen L Thomas]

I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7. I must 
say that I hate upgrading because they change everything and I cannot 
find the utilities I need to make this the way I want it.  Does anyone 
know which utility changes the window settings. Like the X in the upper 
right hand corner.  I want all three items including the - and the box.


Thank you guys for all your help.

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/05/2023 20:04, zithro wrote:

journalctl after GUI LOGOFF


I do not see obvious problems. What might be inspected more closely:


May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: Stopping D-Bus User Message Bus...

   ^^^
If it is the bus shared with ssh connection than it may be an issue,
however it is for systemd unit, real process may be running independently.

Perhaps there is a specific command, but at leas you may compare
env | grep -i bus

from ssh and from GUI sessions. Output may be like
DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/run/user/1000/bus


May 05 14:09:14 debzit gvfsd[14302]: A connection to the bus can't be made
May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: xdg-permission-store.service: Main 
process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE

...

May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: Stopped D-Bus User Message Bus.
May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: Started D-Bus User Message Bus.


Why it started again from the same systemd user session if it is logout? 
I would compare with logout messages when there are no ssh connections.


May 05 14:09:14 debzit sshd[14246]: Received disconnect from IP.IP.IP.IP 
port 38524:11: disconnected by user
May 05 14:09:14 debzit sshd[14246]: Disconnected from user zithro 
IP.IP.IP.IP port 38524


ssh client kicked off immediately after d-bus restart. Higher time 
resolution may be requested by


journalctl -o short-iso-precise

May 05 14:09:14 debzit sshd[14239]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session 
closed for user zithro

May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: at-spi-dbus-bus.service: Succeeded.
May 05 14:09:14 debzit lightdm[23289]: pam_unix(lightdm:session): 
session closed for user zithro


Likely it is completion of closing PAM lightdm session. I do not 
remember if it is possible to increase PAM verbosity to get a log entry 
when PAM close session are called. However systemd may perform actions 
in parallel, so attributions of log entries to specific actions may be 
ambiguous.

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/05/2023 10:30, David Wright wrote:

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 09:13:04 (+0700), Max Nikulin wrote:

On 05/05/2023 02:07, zithro wrote:

2. using VNC or rdesktop, I then log on to X on the machine, do
some stuff, then hit "log off" from the desktop menu.
Immediately, ALL the previous SSH connections started in step 1
get closed, hence all the shells and the GUI apps (firefox, etc) !

...

A wild guess is that it might be force close of systemd user session,
however it should not happen.

...

Isn't it this issue?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19023885


The discussion is too long. I am aware of "loginctl enable-linger" and 
of user logout timeout, but I have no reason to experiment with them in 
action yet.


I have read somewhere that ability to kill all user processes on logout 
was a design requirement for systemd. It must have when a computer is 
not really "personal": classrooms, public spaces like libraries. The 
implementation is to put user's processes into a cgroup. I hope, recipes 
to disable such behavior work well. Default behavior may be disputed, 
but I would not complain that such feature exists. If unrelated (ssh) 
session is killed on (DE) logout due to disabled lingering than it is a bug.


Systemd configuration might be an issue. As I wrote earlier, I agree 
that D-Bus is more probable. It might be PAM configuration for D-Bus 
session or systemd user session, it might be some scripts executed on 
logout by desktop environment or by login manager. Debugging may take 
enough time.

Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes.

[gene heskett]

On 5/5/23 18:51, Brian wrote:

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 16:32:36 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 5/5/23 13:45, Brian wrote:


[...]
  

   * An output from 'lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l' that indicates a broken
 system.


this is bad?
gene@coyote:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l
PageSize/Media Size: 184.15x260mm 195.09x269.88mm 200.03x148.17mm 4x6 A4 A5
A6 B5 B6 Env10 EnvC5 EnvDL EnvMonarch EnvYou4 Executive FanFoldGermanLegal
ISOB5 ISOB6 Legal *Letter Postcard roc16k Custom.WIDTHxHEIGHT
InputSlot/Media Source: *Manual Tray1
ColorModel/Output Mode: FastGray *Gray
Duplex/Duplex: *None DuplexNoTumble DuplexTumble
OutputBin/OutputBin: *FaceDown
cupsPrintQuality/cupsPrintQuality: *Normal


The commaand has been executed on the server, the machine named coyote. The
machine of interest is bpi51, which gives

   > gene@bpi51:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l
   > lpoptions: Unable to get PPD file for HLL2320D_coyote: The printer or class
   > does not exist.

bpi51 is unable to the printer attributes from coyote.

Contrast that with a buster machine:

gene@sixty40:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l

   > PageSize/Media Size: Custom.WIDTHxHEIGHT *Letter Legal Executive
   > FanFoldGermanLegal A4 A5 A6 Env10 EnvMonarch EnvDL EnvC5 ISOB5 B5
   > ISOB6 B6 4x6 Postcard DoublePostcardRotated EnvYou4 195x270mm
   > 184x260mm 197x273mm CUSTOM1 CUSTOM2 CUSTOM3
   > BrMediaType/MediaType: *PLAIN THIN THICK THICKERPAPER2 BOND ENV
   > ENVTHICK ENVTHIN RECYCLED
   > InputSlot/InputSlot: MANUAL *TRAY1
   > Duplex/Duplex: DuplexTumble *DuplexNoTumble None
   > Resolution/Resolution: 300dpi *600dpi 2400x600dpi
   > TonerSaveMode/Toner Save: *OFF ON
   > Sleep/Sleep Time [Min.]: *PrinterDefault 2minutes 10minutes 30minutes

This output would be expected on bpi51.
  

The only thing I don't see is its shared state? but it is.
So why can't another bullseye install use these printers? Buster machines
have 100% transparent access.


Because bpi51 is unable to get attributes from the server to form a PPD file
for HLL2320D_coyote. That is what needs sorting.

The question then becomes what is stopping it, A further clue, maybe, is 
the error log here that reports a lack of auth, but does not say from 
where. that precious little to go hunting for.  Someone more familiar 
with cups might be able to make it spit out more specifics.


Thanks Brian.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes.

[gene heskett]

On 5/5/23 13:45, Brian wrote:

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 11:40:21 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 5/5/23 10:08, Brian wrote:

On Thu 04 May 2023 at 15:57:49 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 5/4/23 15:43, zithro wrote:

On 01 May 2023 14:53, Brian wrote:


[...]


Second question: is that possible to use CUPS/printing without avahi ?


Absolutely, up to bullseye for both buster and bullseye, but not from
bullseye to bullseye.


avahi-daemon is recommended by cups-daemong. Printing is *always* possible
without its being on the system, especially if it's desired to make things
difficult for all users. I'm afraid the remainder of the sentence is very
misleading and amounts to nonsense.


What nonsense? I have repeatedly asked why printers shared from this
machine, that are seen and usable from any buster machine on my net, but
cannot be seen or used by any other bullseye machine on this same net by
localhost:631 on that bullseye machine.

lpstat and friends can see and use them, but no cups related stuff installed
on a bullseye install can.


A very general question was asked. You answered in terms of your own particular
situation:

  * An unrevealed non-Debian OS on bpi51.


The armbian version of debian  bullseye 11.6 which except for the uboot 
stuff, uses the debian arm64 repo's for everything else.  And which I'm 
pretty sure has been posted.



  * A well-known aversion to Avahi.


Which I have now reinstalled, much to my amazement has not insisted on 
replacing the default route with a 169.number. My aversion to avahi goes 
clear back to long before Jessie because it was not possible to achieve 
a working, local 192.168,xx.xx based network with avahi installed. 
Avahi, like NM has finally learned some manners.



  * An aversion to the everywhere model.


Because it reduces any printer to the lowest common denominator. No 
duplex, no multiple paper trays, huge borders & poor almost unreadable 
fonts.



  * An output from 'lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l' that indicates a broken
system.


this is bad?
gene@coyote:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l
PageSize/Media Size: 184.15x260mm 195.09x269.88mm 200.03x148.17mm 4x6 A4 
A5 A6 B5 B6 Env10 EnvC5 EnvDL EnvMonarch EnvYou4 Executive 
FanFoldGermanLegal ISOB5 ISOB6 Legal *Letter Postcard roc16k 
Custom.WIDTHxHEIGHT

InputSlot/Media Source: *Manual Tray1
ColorModel/Output Mode: FastGray *Gray
Duplex/Duplex: *None DuplexNoTumble DuplexTumble
OutputBin/OutputBin: *FaceDown
cupsPrintQuality/cupsPrintQuality: *Normal

The only thing I don't see is its shared state? but it is.
So why can't another bullseye install use these printers? Buster 
machines have 100% transparent access.



Your conclusion is that the printing system is in itself is defective and that 
is
reflected in your response. Their fault - not mine.


And no one can tell me why... none of the editors or pdf readers that have a
print this dialog, geany, evince, etc, can't see or use these printers. I
thought maybe we were on the trail of finding a solution, but you were happy
& went away when an lp command line worked. But way too many of the other
utils ignore any attempt to use lp if they can't use cups. For me, its a
serious problem. Yes, lp works, but I'm back to the amiga, ghostscript 5.05
I had to build and an array of shell scripts I wrote to print a multipage
document. That is 1990 stuff. I just looked at a calendar and found its now
2023.  Seems to me that 33 years later, we should have made more progress
than I can see here.


I gave you a classic printing solution because New Architecture printing fell 
apart
*on your system*. I am very much disinclined to dig any further into the setup
you have devised for printing.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes.

[Brian]

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 11:40:21 -0400, gene heskett wrote:

> On 5/5/23 10:08, Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 04 May 2023 at 15:57:49 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > > On 5/4/23 15:43, zithro wrote:
> > > > On 01 May 2023 14:53, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > > Second question: is that possible to use CUPS/printing without avahi ?
> > > > 
> > > Absolutely, up to bullseye for both buster and bullseye, but not from
> > > bullseye to bullseye.
> > 
> > avahi-daemon is recommended by cups-daemong. Printing is *always* possible
> > without its being on the system, especially if it's desired to make things
> > difficult for all users. I'm afraid the remainder of the sentence is very
> > misleading and amounts to nonsense.
> > 
> What nonsense? I have repeatedly asked why printers shared from this
> machine, that are seen and usable from any buster machine on my net, but
> cannot be seen or used by any other bullseye machine on this same net by
> localhost:631 on that bullseye machine.
> 
> lpstat and friends can see and use them, but no cups related stuff installed
> on a bullseye install can.

A very general question was asked. You answered in terms of your own particular
situation:

 * An unrevealed non-Debian OS on bpi51.
 * A well-known aversion to Avahi.
 * An aversion to the everywhere model.
 * An output from 'lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l' that indicates a broken
   system.

Your conclusion is that the printing system is in itself is defective and that 
is
reflected in your response. Their fault - not mine.

> And no one can tell me why... none of the editors or pdf readers that have a
> print this dialog, geany, evince, etc, can't see or use these printers. I
> thought maybe we were on the trail of finding a solution, but you were happy
> & went away when an lp command line worked. But way too many of the other
> utils ignore any attempt to use lp if they can't use cups. For me, its a
> serious problem. Yes, lp works, but I'm back to the amiga, ghostscript 5.05
> I had to build and an array of shell scripts I wrote to print a multipage
> document. That is 1990 stuff. I just looked at a calendar and found its now
> 2023.  Seems to me that 33 years later, we should have made more progress
> than I can see here.

I gave you a classic printing solution because New Architecture printing fell 
apart
*on your system*. I am very much disinclined to dig any further into the setup
you have devised for printing.

-- 
Brian.

Re : [Installation][debian][Thomson N17csl512] : Démarrage impossible

[k6dedijon]

Bonjour,
J’essayerais une live.
Car si elle ne démarre pas, c'est qu'il faut régler le BIOS de la carte mère.
En effet, je constate que l'UEFI pose des problèmes avec les distros Linux.
Mais, j'arrive à trouver les bons réglages après avoir essayé diverses options.
N'étant pas spécialiste, j' vais pragmatiquement par tâtonnement.

Bon courage
Cassis


- Mail d'origine -
De: Luc Novales 
À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Thu, 04 May 2023 11:01:29 +0200 (CEST)
Objet: [Installation][debian][Thomson N17csl512] : Démarrage impossible

Bonjour,

Même en ayant essayé pas mal de réglages relatifs au secureboot et au 
démarrage legacy ou UEFI, je n'arrive pas à faire démarrer l'ordinateur 
portable Thomson - N17csl512 

 
sur une clé d'installation ou un DVD (lecteur usb externe) debian, 
debian facile, ubuntu directement ou via une clé ventoy.

J'ai un écran noir, au mieux, un curseur fixe. La lecture sur le 
périphérique externe s'arrête et la situation reste stable ;).

Les données du BIOS sont :

|AMI BIOS Core version : 5.13 Compliancy : UEFI 2.7; PI 1.6 Project 
version : GM17CE BO.14 x64|

Avez vous réussi à installer debian sur cette machine ?

Quels réglages du BIOS ?

Un lien vers la bonne procédure ?

Merci,

Luc.

PS : Un DVD d'install Seven démarre en UEFI dans le lecteur externe

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/05/2023 18:58, zithro wrote:

# loginctl list-sessions
SESSION  UID USER    SEAT  TTY
     111 1000 zithro
     112 1000 zithro
     141 1000 zithro    pts/0


I do not see anything suspicious. I suppose, dbus-user-session 
hypothesis by David may be more productive. Perhaps you may prevent 
killing of applications using "dbus-launch PROGRAM" from ssh sessions, 
but you may need to kill extra D-Bus daemon when the PROGRAM is 
finished. And be prepared that applications may be not ready to multiple 
sessions for the same user.


Frankly speaking, I expected that dbus-user-session should keep daemon 
running till at least one session is alive. It is surprise that logoff 
from desktop session kills d-bus despite other connections.



Does it happen for newly created user with no customization?


Never tried !


I recommended to do it just for a case that you added something to init 
files for the "zithro" user.

RE: bind9 and dns forward

[Bonno Bloksma]

Hi,

> In fact you don't resolv at all. Can you provide:

> dig einsccmdp-01.tio.nl +trace +cd
-
linbobo:~# dig einsccmdp-01.tio.nl +trace +cd

; <<>> DiG 9.16.37-Debian <<>> einsccmdp-01.tio.nl +trace +cd
;; global options: +cmd
.   430791  IN  NS  i.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  a.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  c.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  e.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  b.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  m.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  k.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  d.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  j.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  f.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  l.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  h.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  NS  g.root-servers.net.
.   430791  IN  RRSIG   NS 8 0 518400 2023051705 
2023050404 60955 . euvMHZqurPBykFmPr1OYrEWd3ZIP2l3skATDF8FxfGFfEZmBl/NIn+lu 
463u/qxl9F3NYoxN7ANmZyJFMoDhCVpRMEk9mRimctn9fj+6B1EiG02g 
vUiMKSBPrv/gWbZZcXobaE/F99WYV0xnWNWAKJqRO52YRXqvqltvcjNM 
FnreCFXRPLFKJ6jqortPA8XfDEUeyt2oFnNZFy9aVqBSGsIqT2gaqX++ 
6CXeemp5SSX1YHBxVVWnI6FWw7FjPBRNa485e0RmTi/0WdTTaYd2Eh5u 
Sfbpn4OzAgOkGJEU0J45Z4nO8j8M8PpRIW8xh7muW/pLUL6x3FsRsf2s scKr8w==
;; Received 1137 bytes from 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) in 0 ms

nl. 172800  IN  NS  ns4.dns.nl.
nl. 172800  IN  NS  ns1.dns.nl.
nl. 172800  IN  NS  ns3.dns.nl.
nl. 86400   IN  DS  34112 8 2 
3C5B5F9B3557455C50751A9BE9EBE9238C88E19F5F07F930976917B5 1B95CD22
nl. 86400   IN  RRSIG   DS 8 1 86400 2023051805 
2023050504 60955 . n2RgQwHUOPq0Kfit0Fs3PJx+xiSsSeZqOtzw0oq5BU0CBhM6WN75Gw/T 
u+PIFd4NEFoS2T3Y+mGuQb7PfvGNOFHbRzp1rwHrgj5GzgS3nCih9jOF 
wPNytFVYhJ/RqfD80dMwShZAs2OxlVIfD7UYEjUs/ZC38PreGAoHedQI 
wp8lECv80cr+zFHtPHh5RiW1Clg4TDWmlzOsa8y9FOH3acTM+kFjnnaQ 
se2p0ZciZk8B7aNoxG468JQnQHHKRbxQgn8wxM0ttHKkpmwZHvL7bfhE 
CH+akGcz/g4TFQA88B9eHTe0AqcUcHsPhBmB/uySv3FAiO0myKsQwuC+ 8vORCg==
;; Received 605 bytes from 192.36.148.17#53(i.root-servers.net) in 0 ms

tio.nl. 3600IN  NS  ns1.argewebhosting.eu.
tio.nl. 3600IN  NS  ns2.argewebhosting.com.
tio.nl. 3600IN  NS  ns3.argewebhosting.nl.
tio.nl. 3600IN  DS  33829 8 2 
81029E0FCAA9E0C8B2C599485634C0BD006607BAE31F51A48AF0B3A7 EBDBB8E3
tio.nl. 3600IN  RRSIG   DS 8 2 3600 20230516084745 
20230501190734 50076 nl. 
HU8NwsPjKyakNkwXofrXCi6myG361X7PYkKbenuMz+idBTsOJxQDGmVp 
QAGsuI35V0zDKV4qhjCXH9DLfoPhktYMvQF1S87OrAVT8EKVMYOEbzmH 
e1KyXWXFIYoJnZxjL+peKL4KMKmlBn2ZbAZ2CjrEaCQU+JoQNK/rjL61 y+g=
;; Received 408 bytes from 2620:10a:80ac::200#53(ns4.dns.nl) in 12 ms

tio.nl. 3600IN  SOA ns1.argewebhosting.eu. 
hostmaster\@argeweb.nl. 2023021412 10800 3600 604800 3600
tio.nl. 3600IN  RRSIG   SOA 8 2 3600 2023051800 
2023042700 11454 tio.nl. 
JxpppR49YY6NXXJStWmSmQyE1CUNBS6UVQ56WUeZUL3Hs0+ADoQ/Jr6A 
lo00s+d8yNg6zoMqVOCSp0yKmrSJQ1bbX3jsbyJjryL0YuDnu6sZz4ZE 
JsQw4xhewJhXw9MDen2UjB0TPRp+j6N2RPgdE9dtzqYddAdmqNyE0QNu fE0=
kehjo2i9ccgil56qqhgo4o6j7igguuks.tio.nl. 3600 IN NSEC3 1 0 1 AB 
KGKAK3FDJ7OR1SLCGL2M254C661KKVCU A NS SOA MX TXT RRSIG DNSKEY NSEC3PARAM
kehjo2i9ccgil56qqhgo4o6j7igguuks.tio.nl. 3600 IN RRSIG NSEC3 8 3 3600 
2023051800 2023042700 11454 tio.nl. 
mSK7JoJp+VyXIOTeW1jMndxc3l2li7uj+uwf+9/ZT1/wIqb9fCcHiITk 
ET4c3JR5VUa+Mq0rUrwCPUZ0DzXFmvvp0yrYoleoczsdgMxKgyfjpqgs 
+XaElHEF2LWzA33CNkDO8kxaXAfTXNYaGMfTzVMOi+9NYEB3n5tjGBqJ Wcg=
oji66ft00rg1tjd4kc30vno3gbkruu91.tio.nl. 3600 IN NSEC3 1 0 1 AB 
OORJ40BKUP0NDMA08HQO9NS6EMNVIKTH A RRSIG
oji66ft00rg1tjd4kc30vno3gbkruu91.tio.nl. 3600 IN RRSIG NSEC3 8 3 3600 
2023051800 2023042700 11454 tio.nl. 
VY387t4VXyf55HF9EK5l5BJupdO65JBccwQ4AAQJZ6eI/8iYak5H73Wi 
Mpqu1Dw/NSuWgfYvhtfG5KFqlqyuH88pKJtt5mra6+c3NRi1F6yu4TYS 
owv7naAaZy4Tv83zMcNYjivcM2wV4PCKX9nM1TQieRwB9nBx5+QnvUkX KvI=
o4n6i0v019dpao7abq7mfor6a1543t6g.tio.nl. 3600 IN NSEC3 1 0 1 AB 
OJI66FT00RG1TJD4KC30VNO3GBKRUU91 CNAME RRSIG
o4n6i0v019dpao7abq7mfor6a1543t6g.tio.nl. 3600 IN RRSIG NSEC3 8 3 3600 
2023051800 2023042700 11454 tio.nl. 
FGm7FofqjWiWd+9Bj7oNaLqraLyajz7rugO7N7ctd8ZKT14qcEfGkrgV 
zghw+Zpnda4Hb7aGomdsZ/XdiJorXRZRWQD5Qcirm1YEoZwAAbLyyJK0 
qfn3g8SRuVH51nVOOr7WfeZRMVXOlgYSrRnYGlsGQfg/y7or/1qrGnxM 8gM=
;; Received 1029 bytes from 
2a05:1500:702:0:1c00:eff:fe00:ce#53(ns1.argewebhosting.eu) in 8 ms

-
And just to make sure it 

Re: thunderbird missing arrows for scrolling through list of email messages

[Lee]

On 5/4/23, zithro wrote:
> On 04 May 2023 22:11, Dan Ritter wrote:
>> zithro wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I'm currently using "Greybird-dark" (so not the default).
>>> But it seems there's no GUI to alter the theme itself.
>>
>>
>> Right, you have to select a different theme.
>>
>> Or write your own.
>>
>> -dsr-
>
> Well, I just tried half of the stock themes, and some themes show the
> arrows, some don't, but ... it depends on the applications !
>
> As the OP reported, neither Thunderbird nor Firefox display the arrows,
> whereas editors, xterm or file managers do ...
>
> So I guess the problem is REALLY in the Mozilla apps.
> I opened about:config in Firefox (didn't find it in TB), typed
> "scrollbar" and played with some settings.
> "widget.non-native-theme.gtk.scrollbar.allow-buttons" seemed promising,
> but has no effect, even with skins displaying the arrows in other apps.

I think you also need
user_pref("widget.gtk.overlay-scrollbars.enabled", false);

and this is also nice
user_pref("widget.non-native-theme.scrollbar.size.override", 20);

>  From what I read it's a problem with GTK2/3.
>
> PS: no I won't write a theme ^^
> But I may check how to edit one. You know how ?

I think vim is really nice :)

But that's probably not what you want to know, so what I did was to
start with the release tarball from
  https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95

unpack it into my home directory and
  mv ~/Templates/Chicago95-2.0.1/Theme/Chicago95/gtk-2.0
/usr/share/themes/Chicago95/
  mv ~/Templates/Chicago95-2.0.1/Theme/Chicago95/gtk-3.0
/usr/share/themes/Chicago95/

>From there I can select the Chicago95 theme as any user and if there's
anything I don't like I can, once I figure out wtf needs to be changed
(which can be a non-trivial task for me), make the change.

Regards,
Lee

Re: disk usage for /usr/lib on bullseye

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 02:35:08PM +, Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> Just created a snapshot of my servers and then did:
> apt autoremove
> apt purge
> apt clean
> and I still have a working system so it will not just get rid of all 
> installed packages. :-)
> But... I still also have all those folders in /usr/lib/modules

It seems like you're just trying random commands without understanding
what they do.

"apt autoremove" will remove (not purge) packages that meet various
criteria, which can be defined in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ configuration
files.  The intent is to have it do something sensible for the ordinary
user.  Among other things, it removes all but the two most recent
kernels, and it removes packages that no longer have anything depending
on them, and which are also not marked as manually installed.

"apt purge", as we've experimentally determined, seems to do nothing.

"apt clean" removes all of the cached *.deb files in /var/cache/apt/archives.
You may not HAVE any such files, if you've been using "apt" exclusively
(as opposed to "apt-get", which leaves the files behind).

> I am now cleaning some by hand. Running kernel -22 and having -21 as backup 
> kernel I did:
> x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-16-amd64/
> x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-17-amd64/
> x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-18-amd64/

One imagines that if you simply purged all of the kernel packages that
had been autoremoved, this would clean up the modules.  But I'm not
100% sure about that.  If you've got modules that were built by dkms
for example, I don't know whether those would be removed.

It would be nice to know whether you had to do this "rm -r" because the
"dpkg --purge linux-image-5.10.0-16-amd64" failed to remove the modules,
or whether you simply did not KNOW to try the dpkg --purge first.

Re: disk usage for /usr/lib on bullseye

[zithro]

On 03 May 2023 18:22, Curt wrote:

You really don't have to tread dangerous waters (or rather wade into
them, unless your Jesus) because you can simulate without root privileges.

curty@einstein:~$ apt -s purge
NOTE: This is only a simulation!


Quick nitpicking.
Even if "-s" is easily remembered as Simulate, there's also the 
equivalent long option : "--dry-run".

Ok, it's longer to type

Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes.

[gene heskett]

On 5/5/23 10:08, Brian wrote:

On Thu 04 May 2023 at 15:57:49 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 5/4/23 15:43, zithro wrote:

On 01 May 2023 14:53, Brian wrote:


[...]


Second question: is that possible to use CUPS/printing without avahi ?


Absolutely, up to bullseye for both buster and bullseye, but not from
bullseye to bullseye.


avahi-daemon is recommended by cups-daemong. Printing is *always* possible
without its being on the system, especially if it's desired to make things
difficult for all users. I'm afraid the remainder of the sentence is very
misleading and amounts to nonsense.

What nonsense? I have repeatedly asked why printers shared from this 
machine, that are seen and usable from any buster machine on my net, but 
cannot be seen or used by any other bullseye machine on this same net by 
localhost:631 on that bullseye machine.


lpstat and friends can see and use them, but no cups related stuff 
installed on a bullseye install can.


And no one can tell me why... none of the editors or pdf readers that 
have a print this dialog, geany, evince, etc, can't see or use these 
printers. I thought maybe we were on the trail of finding a solution, 
but you were happy & went away when an lp command line worked. But way 
too many of the other utils ignore any attempt to use lp if they can't 
use cups. For me, its a serious problem. Yes, lp works, but I'm back to 
the amiga, ghostscript 5.05 I had to build and an array of shell scripts 
I wrote to print a multipage document. That is 1990 stuff. I just looked 
at a calendar and found its now 2023.  Seems to me that 33 years later, 
we should have made more progress than I can see here.


Take care & stay well Brian.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: processing /etc/sysctl.d

[Lee]

On 5/4/23, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, May 04, 2023 at 01:22:40PM -0400, Lee wrote:
>> OK.. I'll try to figure out how to modify whatever in /etc/NetworkManager
>
> I've been told that Network Manager will ignore any interfaces that
> are defined in /etc/network/interfaces.  So the correct way to set up
> a static address on that interface would be to add it in /e/n/i and
> simply don't touch Network Manager at all.
>
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> auto enp1s0
> iface enp1s0 inet static
> address 192.168.x.y/24
> # gateway 192.168.x.1  if you need this to be the default route
> up sysctl blah blah blah
>
> Also, having "auto enp1s0" here will tell systemd that this interface
> is one that matters, and that this interface needs to be up before it
> can activate any services that depend on the "network being up".  I
> have no idea how that works with N-M because I've never used N-M.

That does sound like the way to go.  I originally tried to configure
the box that way and failed, but it seems like it's worth another try.
But since I ended up with networkmanager because it was the only thing
that worked for me I need to allow enough time for troubleshooting &
restoring everything to my current setup before giving it a try --
which will be Monday at best.

Thanks
Lee

Re: Problème pour servir à un exécutable sa dépendance à libc.so.6 (debian 11)

[Hugues Larrive]

Bonjour,

--- Original Message ---
Le mercredi 3 mai 2023 à 22:33, RogerT  a écrit :
>
>
> je reformule : il y a des problèmes sur aarch64 INEXISTANTS sur x86_64
>
> > Le 3 mai 2023 à 20:09, RogerT roger.tar...@free.fr a écrit :
> >
> > Ça a compilé.
> > Ça tourne sur architecture aarch64.
> >
> > Mais il y a des problèmes avec certaines dépendances à des fonctions du 
> > shell ou à systemd (inexistantes sur x86_64) que je dois régler.
> >

Quels sont les problèmes ? Y a-t-il des messages d'erreur ? Quelles fonctions 
du shell sont concernées ?

Les différences les plus flagrantes entre les 2 architectures sont l'absence 
d'ACPI et de DMI remplacés par devicetree sur arm. Les arm sont souvent des SoC 
donc les périphériques sont organisés différemment, par exemple des 
périphériques qu'on trouve habituellement sur le bus PCI comme l'ethernet, la 
video ou le multimédia peuvent ne pas s'y trouver donc les outils 
habituellement utilisés sur PC pour identifier le matériel comme lspci ou lshw 
ne donneront pas les résultats attendus... Tout ce qui concerne l'ACPI et EFI 
(les interaction avec le firmware) peut poser problème aussi.

De quel genre de programme s'agit-il ?

@+
Hugues

> > > Le 3 mai 2023 à 09:40, didier gaumet didier.gau...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > >
> > > Le mercredi 03 mai 2023 à 03:18 +0200, roger.tar...@free.fr a écrit :
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > Est-ce aussi simple que ça ou y a-t-il des pièges sournois dans la
> > > > cross-compilation ?
> > >
> > > Je n'y connais rien vu que je ne construis pas/plus d'exécutables et 
> > > encore moins par cross-compilation mais le wiki Debian a un article sur 
> > > les différentes possibilités et bonnes pratiques de cross-compilation en 
> > > environnement Debian:
> > > https://wiki.debian.org/CrossCompiling

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Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN, Debian 11.7 Xfce

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 15:46, Charles Curley wrote:

On Fri, 5 May 2023 12:29:53 +0200
zithro  wrote:


That would be nice for them to tell you what THEY consider a valid
MAC addr, as I don't think Debian produces MACs with z or x in it ...
Maybe they check against a valid manufacturer (which is the 1st half
of the MAC addr, iirc called OUI) ?


See the Debian package ieee-data.


ieee-data, another discovery today \o/
But note that in my sentence, "THEY" did refer to the Ubiquity AP the OP 
was using, *not* Debian or NM.



I'm curious if the Xen OUI is valid for them (00:16:3e:nn:nn:nn).


It appears to be.

root@freeman:~# grep 16:3e /var/lib/arpwatch/ethercodes.db
0:16:3e Xensource, Inc.


Again, them == Ubiquity AP ;)

Xen recommends using its OUI on vifs, but does not enforce it, in part 
for the reasons you wrote in your other post.

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 16:10, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

I have now full logs of before/after GUI logon/logoff, I posted them in the
other post.
Will try to make sense of it with this lead ... after a needed break ^^


I saved that for a look during weekend, now I'm supposed to fix
an update of... forget it :)


Hmmm, don't put my logs on the interwebs ! Wait, what did I do ... Damn 
it, too late ! ;)
Joke aside, that's a nice thing to even think about, even if you don't 
do it in the end.


Happy update fixing then, but would be nice to know what the problem is, 
in case we have it too ?



I don't know whether there's a way to tell the DE to leave the
user session dbus alone when it was already running at start.


Don't even know what you mean, so to do it ... ^^


Too long to explain.
But that might explain also why I dislike that stuff.


The first sentence, damn, that's now two times you do it to me !
(I'm just messing with you, no anger there ;) Even if, to be totally 
honest, as much as this time I totally understand your POV, the 1st time 
I was really disappointed).


I agree about the last sentence though, always KISS ! ^^
(KISS without a comma, for those who know what I'm talking about)

Nicolas Boileau said :

Ce que l’on conçoit bien s’énonce clairement,
Et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément

[
What we conceive well is clearly stated,
And the words to say it come easily.
  /other translation/
Whatever is well conceived is clearly said,
And the words to say it flow with ease
]

RE: disk usage for /usr/lib on bullseye

[Bonno Bloksma]

Hi,

>> I expect that, by context, running
>> apt purge
>> without the restriction specifying particular package, will apply apt 
>> purge to all installed packages, according to what purge does, in 
>> relation to packages.
> 
> But as "apt purge " remove this package and remove configuration for 
> this package, I hope that "apt purge" will not remove "all installed 
> packages". Personnally I will not test it...

As I was trying to find out what would work and if I was doing something wrong 
getting rid of old kernels

After upgrading a new kernel for a week I will do apt autoremove to get rid of 
the old kernel(s).
Debian will automatically keep the current kernel and the previous in the /boot 
folder.
Somehow, I get the feeling there either is a bug which causes the 
/usr/lib/modules/ folder not to be cleaned up or there are somehow links to it 
from packages that were updated when a specific kernel was active.

Just created a snapshot of my servers and then did:
apt autoremove
apt purge
apt clean
and I still have a working system so it will not just get rid of all installed 
packages. :-)
But... I still also have all those folders in /usr/lib/modules

I am now cleaning some by hand. Running kernel -22 and having -21 as backup 
kernel I did:
x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-16-amd64/
x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-17-amd64/
x:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-18-amd64/
etc.
and then a reboot to see if all is well. ;-) No "error" in syslog and my dhcp 
server is still running. :-)

But is this a bug in the cleanup of an old kernel or are there realy links 
to the old modules, links that are now broken?
If it s a bug, who will report it? I know only enough to report the symptoms.

BTW I noticed this not only in my bullseye systems but also in my older busters 
systems, The folders are just smaller and therefore it did not realy impact my 
diskspace on / which is why I never noticed it.

Bonno Bloksma

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[tomas]

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 03:26:12PM +0200, zithro wrote:
> On 05 May 2023 14:11, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > No DE, just a window manager (fvwm2).
> 
> Isn't that fluxbox ? That's the GUI I used on Slackware.
> Simple, lean, efficient !

No, quite a bit older. Fluxbox 2000-ish, fvwm 199-small-ish.

[...]

> I have now full logs of before/after GUI logon/logoff, I posted them in the
> other post.
> Will try to make sense of it with this lead ... after a needed break ^^

I saved that for a look during weekend, now I'm supposed to fix
an update of... forget it :)

> > I don't know whether there's a way to tell the DE to leave the
> > user session dbus alone when it was already running at start.
> 
> Don't even know what you mean, so to do it ... ^^

Too long to explain. But that might explain also why I dislike
that stuff.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Debian Bookworm RC 1 installer- a Bug?

[Peter Ehlert]

On 4/23/23 05:52, Peter Ehlert wrote:



On 4/17/23 21:43, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 17 Apr 2023 at 08:47:30 (-0700), Peter Ehlert wrote:

On 4/16/23 09:29, David Wright wrote:

On Sun 16 Apr 2023 at 07:19:18 (-0700), Peter Ehlert wrote:

On 4/9/23 08:57, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 05 Apr 2023 at 07:03:41 (-0700), Peter Ehlert wrote:

Debian Bookworm RC 1 installer
Damned nice, the improvements are appreciated.

I ran rc1 in my usual manner, and the only difference I noticed was
the one extra question about non-free firmware, to which I replied
yes. (There may well be improvements under the hood, so to speak.)
Oh, and the initrd is somewhat larger, as per usual.


using the new debian-bookworm-DI-rc1-amd64-netinst.iso
Legacy install, GPT partition

I assume Legacy means BIOS booting. Same here, but only one disk.

correct. different term, same thing. Not UEFI

graphic install, manual partitioning
Mate Desktop (others were deselected)

Non-graphical here, a suitable partition existed, and only
standard and SSH server software was installed.


WiFi firmware:

Untested as this machine is a 2006-vintage mini-tower lacking wifi.

[ snipped narrative of later network-switching ]


Boot Loader:
all disk drives were detected, however the one with the bios_grub
partition was highlighted

I can't recall seeing anything other than the first item highlighted,
ie "Enter device manually", at least with the non-graphical installer
in expert mode. I selected the (sole) hard drive, item 2. The only
remaining item was the USB stick containing the installer ISO.

As expected nowadays, when the machine rebooted, the Grub menu
had only two lines, both pointing to the newly installed system.
(I hadn't made any attempt to counteract GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER
during my installation.) So Grub was correctly installed in the
MBR, and the rest of Grub occupied d400 bytes of /dev/sda1 (the
3MB BIOS boot partition on the single disk).


=
second try, using the debian-live-bkworm-DI-rc1-amd64-mate.iso
same machine and again Legacy install, GPT partition
however I did NOT install from the live session:
I chose to go directly to install rather than the Calamares installer
then manual partitioning

Boot Loader:
all drives were detected, however the one with the bios_grub partition
was NOT highlighted, but I did select it.
GRUB was Not properly installed, my former grub menu was still active.

How did you determine that it was the previous menu. Wouldn't it look
just the same?

I enable GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER so that the various other operating
systems are shown
if the new GRUB is properly installed I get the "new" one item only
GRUB display.
then when I boot the new OS I again enable GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER and
update GRUB

*** I tried a second time, same as above being super careful, same result.

I then booted with my default system, ran grub-install /dev/sde &&
update-grub
then "new" system was on my boot menu.
then booted and it ran as expected.

So you installed Grub on /dev/sde.


Which method did you use to boot the "default" system (which I assume
is bullseye, in a different partition on one or other of the disks),
in view of the rather sparse menu from grub.cfg on the new system?

I boot with the "old" GRUB menu as explained above...it has Several
operating systems listed, my old default OS is still at the top of the
list.

back to the WiFi dongle, again the obscure firmware was properly installed

Is this a Bug or a user/hardware issue?

Presumably we are now back to talking about Grub.

If you still have access to the bookworm system, you can check whether
it claimed to have completed installing Grub successfully. You should
see lines like:

 grub-installer: info: Installing grub on '/dev/sda'
 grub-installer: info: grub-install does not support --no-floppy
 grub-installer: info: Running chroot /target grub-install  --force 
"/dev/sda"
 grub-installer: Installing for i386-pc platform.
 grub-installer: Installation finished. No error reported.
 grub-installer: info: grub-install ran successfully

in /var/log/installer/syslog.

Thanks, I did not know where to look or what to look for.

I've tidied these lines:


===
Apr  5 12:59:44 grub-installer: info: Identified partition label for
/dev/sdb12: gpt
Apr  5 13:01:03 grub-installer: info: Installing grub on '/dev/sdb'
Apr  5 13:01:03 grub-installer: info: grub-install does not support
--no-floppy
Apr  5 13:01:03 grub-installer: info: Running chroot /target
grub-install  --force "/dev/sdb"
Apr  5 13:01:03 grub-installer: Installing for i386-pc platform.
Apr  5 13:01:13 grub-installer: grub-install: warning: this GPT
partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be
possible.
Apr  5 13:01:13 grub-installer: grub-install: warning: Embedding is
not possible.  GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using
blocklists.  However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is
discouraged..
Apr  5 13:01:13 

Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN, Debian 11.7 Xfce

[Charles Curley]

On Fri, 5 May 2023 12:29:53 +0200
zithro  wrote:

> That would be nice for them to tell you what THEY consider a valid
> MAC addr, as I don't think Debian produces MACs with z or x in it ...
> Maybe they check against a valid manufacturer (which is the 1st half
> of the MAC addr, iirc called OUI) ?

See the Debian package ieee-data.


> I'm curious if the Xen OUI is valid for them (00:16:3e:nn:nn:nn).

It appears to be.

root@freeman:~# grep 16:3e /var/lib/arpwatch/ethercodes.db 
0:16:3e Xensource, Inc.
root@freeman:~#

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: date de sortie prévisionnelle de Debian 12 Bookworm: le 10 juin 2023

[didier gaumet]

Le 05/05/2023 à 14:00, Erwann Le Bras a écrit :
[...]

  * si c'est le système qui démarre X et ensuite tu t'identifies sur la
mire X11, c'est forcément root le propriétaire.

[...]

En fait ton exemple illustre le fait que lightdm, bien que pas si vieux, 
a une gestion à l'ancienne et ne permet donc que le lancement de X11 par 
le super-utilisateur, si j'ai bien suivi:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg#Rootless_Xorg

mais mon exemple précédent illustre que lorsque le système démarre en 
mode graphique par défaut avec la config Debian de base (DE Gnome), gdm 
est lancé par root, mais dans le cas de gnome-classic sous Bullseye 
cette session est lancée par l'utilisateur et X11 aussi (dans le cas de 
Gnome ordinaire il n'y aurait pas de X11)


Enfin en gros tout ça c'est que je comprends mais j'ai peut-être pas 
tout capté :-)

Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN, Debian 11.7 Xfce

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 4 May 2023 21:08:07 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:

> A further problem -- Debian

Well, it isn't really Debian, it's Network Manager.

> is changing the MAC address of the Wi-Fi 
> adapter ("MAC address spoofing", a security "feature") to MAC
> addresses

This is a security feature for road warriors. Many access points (APs)
track users by MAC address, and use that data to feed ads, and
otherwise be rude. So if you are using public APs, feel free to use
random MAC addresses.

> that my networking equipment (Ubiquiti Networks UniFi)
> detects as invalid:
> 
>  "This field must be a valid MAC address"

On your home or work network you may have good reason to use the
manufacturer's MAC address. For example, your DCP server may assign
host name, IP address and other features based on MAC address. So you
should use the permanent address on known networks.

> 
> 
> The solution was to change the Wi-Fi settings in Debian:

Right. You can also do it via the command line, using nmcli. Which
makes it easy to script.

https://fedoramagazine.org/randomize-mac-address-nm/

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 14:11, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 01:58:55PM +0200, zithro wrote:

On 05 May 2023 06:32, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

dbus is a candidate. Let me explain: I have a funny setup -- no systemd,
no dbus (still, Debian buster, and X).


I'm on bullseye, I know how to switch back to old init, but have no clue
about Dbus (kinda a Linux-GUI-with-systemd noob).
Which DE/DM you using ? I'm on MATE but also would like to get rid of many
"gvfs-*" stuff. systemctl masking is not enough and filling logs with
errors.


No DE, just a window manager (fvwm2).


Isn't that fluxbox ? That's the GUI I used on Slackware.
Simple, lean, efficient !
Ah, quick search showed me that no, from the derivatives tree image of 
fvwm2 on wikipedia. may be wrong.

But I'm a bit fed up with GUIs right now. Well, systemd rather !
Anyways, back to console fun.




At some point in time, the browser (firefox) brought in dbus via some
dependencies. Annoyed, I killed dbus -- and poof, all browser instances
were gone.


Another thing I might try. But no clue what's the relation between dbus and
firefox. Also, I'm running FF in firejail.


Most applications use it to store their app preferences (just as a
transport to the store backend, typically some gsettings-thingy).
But they may use it to start other applications, etc.

No idea what firefox is messing with it (but it seems to run without
currently, nevertheless).


If I inhibit dbus from starting, the browsers run fine without it. My
hunch is that they keep an open socket conection to the dbus and die
on SIGPIPE or some such.


Again, curious how to get rid of dbus, if it's not really useful.


That depends on your needs. There are some things which will refuse
working right away because dbus is deeply built into how they work
(Bluez, for one: they use dbus like someone else would use a shared
lib). So if you use bluetooth devices, you'll have to make do with
dbus, I fear.


Good to know, another thing to look for ...
But no need for bluetooth on this machine, it's a domU \o/


So yes, if all those apps are sharing "the" session dbus, possibly
started by whoever came first *and* the logout takes the session
dbus down, this might be an explanation.


Again, dunno, after domU boot I usually first login via SSH, and on rare
occasions I login via GUI/VNC, and then ... boom.


One thing you could try is to see whether, after starting one
of those programs which get taken down, the user session dbus
is running (and wasn't before). See what happens when you log
out (does it disappear?).

Then try killing it "by hand" and see whether the same happens.


I have now full logs of before/after GUI logon/logoff, I posted them in 
the other post.

Will try to make sense of it with this lead ... after a needed break ^^


I don't know whether there's a way to tell the DE to leave the
user session dbus alone when it was already running at start.


Don't even know what you mean, so to do it ... ^^


Those DEs behave as if the computer were theirs, not yours ;-)


Aaaand I *hate* that too !


Now don't ask me why I try to avoid that ;-)


If only I knew beforehand ^^


:-)


Not funny ... for me ^^ (joking)



Cheers


Thanks again

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

So, previous post was BEFORE logging in into GUI via VNC.
Now, I have outputs from after GUI LOGIN and after GUI LOGOFF.
I've removed the maximum of useless lines (audio, GUI apps, gvfs stuff, 
etc), but tried to keep the most about systemd and dbus, as I'm clueless 
about what you wanna read ...

This post is a facking mess ! Sorry for the "encyclopedia" ...


On 05 May 2023 04:13, Max Nikulin wrote:

Have you inspected journalctl output (as root) around the "log off" moment?



journalctl after GUI LOGIN


May 05 14:04:45 debzit lightdm[23289]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon 
control file
May 05 14:04:45 debzit lightdm[23289]: gkr-pam: stashed password to try 
later in open session

May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd[1]: Stopping Session c2 of user lightdm.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit lightdm[14038]: 
pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session): session closed for user lightdm

May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd[1]: session-c2.scope: Succeeded.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd[1]: Stopped Session c2 of user lightdm.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd[1]: session-c2.scope: Consumed 12.947s 
CPU time.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit lightdm[23289]: pam_unix(lightdm:session): 
session opened for user zithro(uid=1000) by (uid=0)

May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd-logind[480]: Removed session c2.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd-logind[480]: New session 154 of user zithro.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd[1]: Started Session 154 of user zithro.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit rtkit-daemon[479]: Supervising 7 threads of 3 
processes of 1 users.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit pulseaudio[14058]: After module unload, module 
'module-null-sink' was still loaded!

May 05 14:04:45 debzit systemd[14042]: pulseaudio.service: Succeeded.
May 05 14:04:45 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Activating service name='org.freedesktop.portal.IBus' requested by 
':1.23' (uid=1000 pid=23375 comm="/usr/bin/ibus-daemon --daemonize --xim ")
May 05 14:04:45 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.portal.IBus'
May 05 14:04:45 debzit at-spi-bus-launcher[23376]: dbus-daemon[23376]: 
Activating service name='org.a11y.atspi.Registry' requested by ':1.1' 
(uid=1000 pid=23383 comm="/usr/libexec/ibus-ui-gtk3 ")
May 05 14:04:45 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Activating via systemd: service name='org.freedesktop.portal.Desktop' 
unit='xdg-desktop-portal.service' requested by ':1.31' (uid=1000 
pid=23384 comm="/usr/libexec/ibus-extension-gtk3 ")

May 05 14:04:46 debzit systemd[711]: Starting Portal service...
May 05 14:04:46 debzit at-spi-bus-launcher[23376]: dbus-daemon[23376]: 
Successfully activated service 'org.a11y.atspi.Registry'
May 05 14:04:46 debzit at-spi-bus-launcher[23407]: SpiRegistry daemon is 
running with well-known name - org.a11y.atspi.Registry
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Activating via systemd: service 
name='org.freedesktop.impl.portal.desktop.gtk' 
unit='xdg-desktop-portal-gtk.service' requested by ':1.33' (uid=1000 
pid=23408 comm="/usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal ")
May 05 14:04:46 debzit systemd[711]: Starting Portal service (GTK+/GNOME 
implementation)...
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Activating service name='ca.desrt.dconf' requested by ':1.34' (uid=1000 
pid=23414 comm="/usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal-gtk ")
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Successfully activated service 'ca.desrt.dconf'
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.impl.portal.desktop.gtk'
May 05 14:04:46 debzit systemd[711]: Started Portal service (GTK+/GNOME 
implementation).
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Activating service name='org.freedesktop.secrets' requested by ':1.33' 
(uid=1000 pid=23408 comm="/usr/libexec/xdg-desktop-portal ")
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.secrets'
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[13960]: [session uid=1000 pid=13960] 
Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.portal.Desktop'

May 05 14:04:46 debzit systemd[711]: Started Portal service.
May 05 14:04:46 debzit x-session-manager[23299]: WARNING: Unable to find 
provider '' of required component 'dock'
May 05 14:04:46 debzit gnome-keyring-daemon[23296]: The Secret Service 
was already initialized
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[471]: [system] Activating via 
systemd: service name='org.freedesktop.hostname1' 
unit='dbus-org.freedesktop.hostname1.service' requested by ':1.186' 
(uid=1000 pid=23468 comm="/usr/bin/mate-settings-daemon ")

May 05 14:04:46 debzit systemd[1]: Starting Hostname Service...
May 05 14:04:46 debzit dbus-daemon[471]: [system] 

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[tomas]

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 01:58:55PM +0200, zithro wrote:
> On 05 May 2023 06:32, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > dbus is a candidate. Let me explain: I have a funny setup -- no systemd,
> > no dbus (still, Debian buster, and X).
> 
> I'm on bullseye, I know how to switch back to old init, but have no clue
> about Dbus (kinda a Linux-GUI-with-systemd noob).
> Which DE/DM you using ? I'm on MATE but also would like to get rid of many
> "gvfs-*" stuff. systemctl masking is not enough and filling logs with
> errors.

No DE, just a window manager (fvwm2).

> > At some point in time, the browser (firefox) brought in dbus via some
> > dependencies. Annoyed, I killed dbus -- and poof, all browser instances
> > were gone.
> 
> Another thing I might try. But no clue what's the relation between dbus and
> firefox. Also, I'm running FF in firejail.

Most applications use it to store their app preferences (just as a
transport to the store backend, typically some gsettings-thingy).
But they may use it to start other applications, etc.

No idea what firefox is messing with it (but it seems to run without
currently, nevertheless).

> > If I inhibit dbus from starting, the browsers run fine without it. My
> > hunch is that they keep an open socket conection to the dbus and die
> > on SIGPIPE or some such.
> 
> Again, curious how to get rid of dbus, if it's not really useful.

That depends on your needs. There are some things which will refuse
working right away because dbus is deeply built into how they work
(Bluez, for one: they use dbus like someone else would use a shared
lib). So if you use bluetooth devices, you'll have to make do with
dbus, I fear.

> > So yes, if all those apps are sharing "the" session dbus, possibly
> > started by whoever came first *and* the logout takes the session
> > dbus down, this might be an explanation.
> 
> Again, dunno, after domU boot I usually first login via SSH, and on rare
> occasions I login via GUI/VNC, and then ... boom.

One thing you could try is to see whether, after starting one
of those programs which get taken down, the user session dbus
is running (and wasn't before). See what happens when you log
out (does it disappear?).

Then try killing it "by hand" and see whether the same happens.

I don't know whether there's a way to tell the DE to leave the
user session dbus alone when it was already running at start.
Those DEs behave as if the computer were theirs, not yours ;-)

> > Now don't ask me why I try to avoid that ;-)
> 
> If only I knew beforehand ^^

:-)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: date de sortie prévisionnelle de Debian 12 Bookworm: le 10 juin 2023

[Erwann Le Bras]

bonjour

Pour moi, ça dépend :

 * si tu t'identifie sur la console texte pour lancer l'interface
   graphique là oui, elle est lancée avec ton ID
 * si c'est le système qui démarre X et ensuite tu t'identifies sur la
   mire X11, c'est forcément root le propriétaire.

Chez moi j'ai :

root    6608   1  0 avril12 ? 00:00:09 /usr/sbin/lightdm
root    6623    6608  0 avril12 tty7   04:51:46 /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg 
:0 -seat seat0 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch
root    6968    6608  0 avril12 ?  00:00:00 lightdm 
--session-child 16 25

erwann  7026    6968  0 avril12 ?  00:00:02 xfce4-session
erwann  7092    7026  0 avril12 ?  00:00:02 /usr/bin/ssh-agent 
/usr/bin/im-launch startxfce4
erwann  7160    7000  0 avril12 ?  00:00:05 
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/xfconf/xfconfd


Le système démarre X et je me loggue ensuite sur l'invite graphique.

Erwann

Le 04/05/2023 à 10:19, didier gaumet a écrit :
mais j'avais cru comprendre qu'historiquement X11 était lancé par root 
surtout pour pouvoir accéder aux ressources nécessaires, et qu'au fil 
du temps on a découvert des failles potentielles de sécurité qui 
rendaient ce mode de fonctionnement indésirable. On privilégie donc a 
priori de nos jours un lancement de X11 par un utilisateur "ordinaire". 

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 07:33, David wrote:

On Thu, 4 May 2023 at 19:07, zithro  wrote:


this is a rather strange problem, I hope the title is explicit enough.


Subject: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections
started previously from outside X


Yeah, I meant title==subject, I was hoping it was clear enough for everyone.
Why did you copy it ? ^^



That sounds like what is documented here, with the solution at the end:

$ apt show dbus-user-session
Package: dbus-user-session
Version: 1.12.24-0+deb11u1
[... some output snipped for brevity ...]
Description: simple interprocess messaging system (systemd --user integration)
  D-Bus is a message bus, used for sending messages between applications.
  Conceptually, it fits somewhere in between raw sockets and CORBA in
  terms of complexity.
  .
  On systemd systems, this package opts in to the session model in which
  a user's session starts the first time they log in, and does not end
  until all their login sessions have ended. This model merges all
  parallel non-graphical login sessions (text mode, ssh, cron, etc.), and up
  to one graphical session, into a single "user-session" or "super-session"
  within which all background D-Bus services are shared.
  .
  Multiple graphical sessions per user are not currently supported in this
  mode; as a result, it is particularly suitable for gdm, which responds to
  requests to open a parallel graphical session by switching to the existing
  graphical session and unlocking it.
  .
  To retain dbus' traditional session semantics, in which login sessions
  are artificially isolated from each other, remove this package and install
  dbus-x11 instead.
  [...]



Will keep that under the elbow, but it *seems* a systemd problem (see 
other posts, like the ycombinator link, first post is exactly my problem).


Thanks

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 06:32, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

dbus is a candidate. Let me explain: I have a funny setup -- no systemd,
no dbus (still, Debian buster, and X).


I'm on bullseye, I know how to switch back to old init, but have no clue 
about Dbus (kinda a Linux-GUI-with-systemd noob).
Which DE/DM you using ? I'm on MATE but also would like to get rid of 
many "gvfs-*" stuff. systemctl masking is not enough and filling logs 
with errors.




At some point in time, the browser (firefox) brought in dbus via some
dependencies. Annoyed, I killed dbus -- and poof, all browser instances
were gone.


Another thing I might try. But no clue what's the relation between dbus 
and firefox. Also, I'm running FF in firejail.



If I inhibit dbus from starting, the browsers run fine without it. My
hunch is that they keep an open socket conection to the dbus and die
on SIGPIPE or some such.


Again, curious how to get rid of dbus, if it's not really useful.


So yes, if all those apps are sharing "the" session dbus, possibly
started by whoever came first *and* the logout takes the session
dbus down, this might be an explanation.


Again, dunno, after domU boot I usually first login via SSH, and on rare 
occasions I login via GUI/VNC, and then ... boom.




Now don't ask me why I try to avoid that ;-)


If only I knew beforehand ^^



Cheers


Thanks

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 05:30, David Wright wrote:

Isn't it this issue?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19023885


Looks like it, yes !



I'm afraid I can't replicate the problem, though, as I don't have
a "log off" button or menu entry. That might suggest that the
problem is in something I don't run, like the DE or DM. (I assume
we're all using systemd.)


Yes, I'm using systemd.



When I run multiple jobs through multiple ssh commands, I find
they're in different scopes, eg:

0::/user.slice/user-1000.slice/session-229.scope
0::/user.slice/user-1000.slice/session-230.scope

(To see the slice and scope, add cgroup to your ps command.
Add it as the last option, or its output might get truncated.)

When you've logged in to X, what slice/scopes do you see for X and
the processes you previously started? Are they all the same?


I've posted the results of this in the reply to Max Nikulin along the 
others commands he told me to run.

But yeah they run as different scopes.



I think I've read that the way to get round this (or "go with the
flow") is to run the earlier processes as user services under systemd,
but I've not tried it.


I'm a systemd noob, don't really know what you talking about ^^
Better switch to a better init system, I still fail to see how systemd 
is helping me, I only had problems with it.

I'm a long time Slackware user, so I can compare inits. /rant off



Cheers,
David.



Thanks

Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started previously from outside X

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 04:13, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 05/05/2023 02:07, zithro wrote:
2. using VNC or rdesktop, I then log on to X on the machine, do some 
stuff, then hit "log off" from the desktop menu.
Immediately, ALL the previous SSH connections started in step 1 get 
closed, hence all the shells and the GUI apps (firefox, etc) !


Have you inspected journalctl output (as root) around the "log off" moment?


Will do, but it's such a PITA ...

A wild guess is that it might be force close of systemd user session, 
however it should not happen. Try to compare systemd-cgls (user .slice 
and .scope), "loginctl list-users", "loginctl list-sessions" on each step.


I'm a systemd noob, don't really know what you talking about ^^
But seems like the culprit.
Ran those commands (fucking auto pager though, way to break scrolling 
... another fail)


So *before* logging in X via VNC :

# systemd-cgls --no-pager
Control group /:
-.slice
├─user.slice
│ ├─user-112.slice
│ │ ├─session-c2.scope
│ │ │ ├─14038 lightdm --session-child 16 19
│ │ │ └─14060 /usr/sbin/lightdm-gtk-greeter
│ │ └─user@112.service …
│ │   ├─app.slice
 [snipped unrelated]
│ │   │ ├─at-spi-dbus-bus.service
│ │   │ │ ├─14078 /usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher
│ │   │ │ ├─14083 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon 
--config-file=/usr/share/defaults/at-spi2/accessibility.conf --nofork 
--print-addr…

│ │   │ │ └─14102 /usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
│ │   │ └─dbus.service
│ │   │   └─14061 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --session --address=systemd: 
--nofork --nopidfile --systemd-activation --syslog-on…

│ │   └─init.scope
│ │ ├─14042 /lib/systemd/systemd --user
│ │ └─14043 (sd-pam)
│ ├─user-0.slice
│ │ ├─session-147.scope
│ │ │ ├─22477 sshd: root@pts/2
│ │ │ ├─22483 -bash
│ │ │ └─22725 systemd-cgls --no-pager
│ │ ├─session-148.scope
│ │ │ ├─22495 sshd: root@pts/3
│ │ │ ├─22501 -bash
│ │ │ └─22521 htop
│ │ ├─session-151.scope
│ │ │ ├─22645 sshd: root@pts/5
│ │ │ └─22651 -bash
│ │ ├─session-145.scope
│ │ │ ├─22440 sshd: root@pts/1
│ │ │ ├─22462 -bash
│ │ │ └─22634 journalctl --no-pager -b 0 --follow
│ │ └─user@0.service …
│ │   └─init.scope
│ │ ├─22443 /lib/systemd/systemd --user
│ │ └─22444 (sd-pam)
│ └─user-1000.slice
│   ├─user@1000.service …
│   │ ├─app.slice
│   │ │ ├─xdg-permission-store.service
│   │ │ │ └─14334 /usr/libexec/xdg-permission-store
│   │ │ ├─xdg-document-portal.service
│   │ │ │ ├─14331 /usr/libexec/xdg-document-portal
│   │ │ │ └─14339 fusermount -o 
rw,nosuid,nodev,fsname=portal,auto_unmount,subtype=portal -- 
/run/user/1000/doc

│   │ │ ├─pulseaudio.service
│   │ │ │ └─14031 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --daemonize=no --log-target=journal
│   │ │ ├─gvfs-daemon.service
│   │ │ │ └─14302 /usr/libexec/gvfsd
│   │ │ ├─at-spi-dbus-bus.service
│   │ │ │ └─14508 /usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher
│   │ │ ├─pipewire.service
│   │ │ │ ├─752 /usr/bin/pipewire
│   │ │ │ └─756 /usr/bin/pipewire-media-session
│   │ │ └─dbus.service
│   │ │   └─13960 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --session --address=systemd: 
--nofork --nopidfile --systemd-activation --syslog-on…

│   │ └─init.scope
│   │   ├─711 /lib/systemd/systemd --user
│   │   └─724 (sd-pam)
│   ├─session-111.scope
│   │ ├─14107 sshd: zithro [priv]
│   │ ├─14113 sshd: zithro@notty
│   │ ├─14114 firejail firefox -p junk -no-remote
│   │ ├─14117 /usr/bin/xdg-dbus-proxy --fd=4 --args=5
│   │ ├─14119 firejail firefox -p junk -no-remote
│   │ ├─14128 firefox-esr -p junk -no-remote
 [snipped all threads]
│   ├─session-141.scope
│   │ ├─21925 sshd: zithro [priv]
│   │ ├─21931 sshd: zithro@pts/0
│   │ └─21932 ssh zithro@otherhost
│   ├─session-112.scope
│   │ ├─14239 sshd: zithro [priv]
│   │ ├─14246 sshd: zithro@notty
│   │ ├─14247 firejail thunderbird
│   │ ├─14250 firejail thunderbird
│   │ ├─14259 /usr/lib/thunderbird/thunderbird
│   └─session-149.scope
│ ├─22606 sshd: zithro [priv]
│ ├─22612 sshd: zithro@pts/4
│ └─22613 -bash
├─init.scope
│ └─1 /sbin/init
└─system.slice
  ├─dbus.service
  │ └─471 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork 
--nopidfile --systemd-activation --syslog-only

 [snipped rest of slice]

# loginctl list-sessions
SESSION  UID USERSEAT  TTY
111 1000 zithro
112 1000 zithro
141 1000 zithropts/0
1450 root
1470 root
1480 root
149 1000 zithropts/4
1510 root
 c2  112 lightdm seat0

9 sessions listed.

# loginctl list-users
 UID USER
   0 root
 112 lightdm
1000 zithro

3 users listed.


To keep this answer humanly readable, I will post the results of 
previous commands after GUI login and after GUI logoff in another answer ...



Perhaps it may be related to user D-Bus sessions, however I would expect 
that ssh GUI app has its own bus created by dbus-launch.


Dunno exactly how to report this. In the firefox firejail there's 
"xdg-dbus-proxy", but not in the thunderbird firejail.


# ps -eo pid,user,args,cgroup | grep -i dbus
471 message+ /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --syst 

Re: (deb-cat) Reemplaçar fitxer de paquet, no repetible

[Alex Muntada]

Hola, Narcis:

> què puc fer per a personalitzar un fitxer de logrotate sense
> que me'l trepitgi una actualització?

Utilitza una extensió tabú del logrotate:

tabooext [+] list
The current taboo extension list is changed (see the
  include directive for information on the taboo
  extensions). If a + precedes the list of extensions,
  the current taboo extension list is augmented,
  otherwise it is replaced. At startup, the taboo
  extension list ,v, .cfsaved, .disabled, .dpkg-bak,
  .dpkg-del, .dpkg-dist, .dpkg-new, .dpkg-old,
  .rhn-cfg-tmp-*, .rpmnew, .rpmorig, .rpmsave, .swp,
  .ucf-dist, .ucf-new, .ucf-old, ~

Salut,
Alex

--
  ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
  ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁   Alex Muntada 
  ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋   Debian Developer  log.alexm.org
  ⠈⠳⣄



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Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN, Debian 11.7 Xfce

[David Christensen]

On 5/5/23 03:25, zithro wrote:

On 05 May 2023 04:52, David Christensen wrote:
I was going to surf eBay and find another Wi-Fi card, but then I had 
one last idea -- double-checking the the CMOS/NVRAM settings via 
Setup.  I cut the settings down to the bare minimum for Wi-Fi:


   Settings
   + Wireless
 + Wireless Switch
 |    WWAN   unchecked
 |    WLAN   checked
 |    Bluetooth  unchecked
 +  Wireless Device Enable
  WWAN   unchecked
  WLAN   checked
  Bluetooth  unchecked
   -> Apply
   -> Exit



Wow, good job, didn't think about the firmware.
For info, what were the settings BEFORE you changed them ?



  Settings
  + Wireless
+ Wireless Switch
|WWAN   checked
|WLAN   checked
|Bluetooth  checked
+  Wireless Device Enable
 WWAN   checked
 WLAN   checked
 Bluetooth  checked



I know the machine has Wi-Fi and it does not have WWAN.  I don't know 
if the Wi-Fi card includes Bluetooth.  But, "if it ain't broke, don't 
fix it'.


Don't touch anything, and look up your card on the net ;)
If you don't use it now, maybe you'll need it one day, and you may have 
forgotten you disabled it in the FW.



Agreed.




Damn infernal computers and networks...


Too easy, not funny ^^



David

Re: thunderbird missing arrows for scrolling through list of email messages

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 12:20, dmacdoug wrote:

Well, it appears to me that all Mozilla products have the same problem and
for Firefox there is a theme add on named "Custom Scollbars" made by Wesley
Branton which allows to change the color of the scrollbar and to make
limited changes to the width but does not restore the arrows.  He has been
asked about it and says that it is not possible to do more without changes
by the developers.


IIRC, it is a problem since the GTK2/GTK3 fix.
If many users pile on a bug report maybe the devs would move ...



This theme is not available for either Thunderbird or Filezilla and I can't
find any theme for either of those which does anything similar.


Filezilla can use mozilla themes ?

Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN, Debian 11.7 Xfce

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 06:08, David Christensen wrote:

On 5/4/23 19:52, David Christensen wrote:
That said, Wi-Fi does not work with my Ubuiquitti Networks UniFi setup 
-- it doesn't like the MAC address.



A further problem -- Debian is changing the MAC address of the Wi-Fi 
adapter ("MAC address spoofing", a security "feature") to MAC addresses 
that my networking equipment (Ubiquiti Networks UniFi) detects as invalid:


     "This field must be a valid MAC address"


That would be nice for them to tell you what THEY consider a valid MAC 
addr, as I don't think Debian produces MACs with z or x in it ...
Maybe they check against a valid manufacturer (which is the 1st half of 
the MAC addr, iirc called OUI) ?

I'm curious if the Xen OUI is valid for them (00:16:3e:nn:nn:nn).

Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN, Debian 11.7 Xfce

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 04:52, David Christensen wrote:
I was going to surf eBay and find another Wi-Fi card, but then I had one 
last idea -- double-checking the the CMOS/NVRAM settings via Setup.  I 
cut the settings down to the bare minimum for Wi-Fi:


   Settings
   + Wireless
     + Wireless Switch
     |    WWAN   unchecked
     |    WLAN   checked
     |    Bluetooth  unchecked
     +  Wireless Device Enable
  WWAN   unchecked
  WLAN   checked
  Bluetooth  unchecked
   -> Apply
   -> Exit



Wow, good job, didn't think about the firmware.
For info, what were the settings BEFORE you changed them ?

I know the machine has Wi-Fi and it does not have WWAN.  I don't know if 
the Wi-Fi card includes Bluetooth.  But, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.


Don't touch anything, and look up your card on the net ;)
If you don't use it now, maybe you'll need it one day, and you may have 
forgotten you disabled it in the FW.



Damn infernal computers and networks...


Too easy, not funny ^^

Re: thunderbird missing arrows for scrolling through list of email messages

[dmacdoug]

On Thu, May 04, 2023 at 10:50:27PM +0200, zithro wrote:
> On 04 May 2023 22:10, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > zithro wrote:
> > > On 04 May 2023 21:38, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > > It's not hidden, it's part of the theme. You can install and
> > > > change themes -- look for packages with the keyword gtk theme,
> > > > and in XFCE's settings manager, it's under appearance/style.
> > > 
> > > Well, I'm currently using "Greybird-dark" (so not the default).
> > > But it seems there's no GUI to alter the theme itself.
> > > 
> > > I looked in Appearance, Window Manager/Style, Window Manager/Advanced,
> > > Window Manager/Tweaks and even in the Settings Editor (read almost all
> > > keys/values), and found nowhere a possibility to alter the arrows.
> > > Maybe I overlooked something ?
> > 
> > It's under Appearance as "Style" for me.
> > 
> > -dsr-
> 
> Same, but I personaly find "Window Manager/Style" better, as it allows
> changing a few settings.

Well, it appears to me that all Mozilla products have the same problem and
for Firefox there is a theme add on named "Custom Scollbars" made by Wesley
Branton which allows to change the color of the scrollbar and to make
limited changes to the width but does not restore the arrows.  He has been
asked about it and says that it is not possible to do more without changes
by the developers.

This theme is not available for either Thunderbird or Filezilla and I can't
find any theme for either of those which does anything similar.

Don

Re: archive files

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 12:07:09AM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

How does cpio(1) compare?
How about dump(8) and restore(8)?


I'd note that these (like tar) are both very old tools, and there are
many more modern ones perhaps worthy of consideration too. (which; is
left as an exercise for the reader)


AIUI dd(1) produces identical backup/ restore results.  Do you know
otherwise?


It does so by cloning the device underneath the filesystem, and thus,
the filesystem on top (and all the 'gaps' between); so yes, using dd(1)
can preserve any metadata that you care about. But the result is very
unwieldy to store or access, and you have to be sure the filesystem is
in a ready state to be cloned or information that has not hit the disk
(in data structures in memory or buffer cache) could be lost, so it's
not generally recommended as a tool to produce a file archive.

--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Need some advice please.

[zithro]

On 05 May 2023 08:29, Michel Verdier wrote:

Le 5 mai 2023 zithro a écrit :


If on USB/external drive, preferably format the drive so it can be read on
multiple OS. So prefer FAT32/exFAT, and avoid ext4, ZFS, NTFS, APFS, etc.


As I don't need to restore debian on windows I choose to format my
external drive with xfs on encrypted partition



I agree that for normal use cases, you can do whatever is easier and 
practical for you !
You could as well create a blank disk image file, mount it as a loop 
device, format as encrypted xfs (or better, encrypted zfs), unmount and 
finally copy (dd or zfs-send) the image file on whatever medium you want.
(I don't know much about xfs, but zfs has advantages for this purpose: 
snapshots, encryption, variable block size, ACLs, zfs-send directly to a 
file, etc).


But, my point was that backups must be accessible at all times, covering 
the most use cases possible.


So it means up to the most critical emergency situations, when you don't 
have a system at hand that can read a particular filesystem, but you 
must read/extract the data from your backup.

Hence choosing the most universal FS.

Re: Re : Retour de veille

[Yannick]

Le 02/05/2023 à 14:02, Hugues Larrive a écrit :

Bonjour,

Au démarrage ça dépend du gestionnaire de connexion, par exemple pour lightdm 
c'est dans /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf : autologin-user=nom_d'utilisateur. Pour 
slim c'est dans /etc/slim.conf :
default_user nom_d'utilisateur
auto_login yes

Pour le retour de veille ça dépend de l'environnement de bureau, pour Mate c'est dans les 
préférences de l'économiseur d'écran "Verrouiller l'écran quand l'économisuer 
d'écran est actif"

@+
HuguesBonjour,


Désolé pour le retard à répondre!
Cela ne marche pas. Il semblerait que Lightdm ait un soucis en Debian 12

Je cherche le bon réglage pour la sortie de veille.

Amitiés

--
Yannick VOYEAUD
Nul n'a droit au superflu tant que chacun n'a pas son nécessaire
(Camille JOUFFRAY 1841-1924, maire de Vienne)
http://www.voyeaud.org
Créateur CimGenWeb: http://www.francegenweb.org/cimgenweb/
Journées du Logiciel Libre: http://jdll.org
Généalogie en liberté avec Ancestris https://www.ancestris.org



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Re: EPSON ET M 1120 new printer: If You can read this, you are using the wrong driver

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 1. I am not a German
> 2. This is not a joke
> 3. At least one of 1, 2, or 3 is false

So the most humorous guess would be that you are a german philosopher.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Nettoyage du spam : avril 2023

[Jean-Pierre Giraud]

Bonjour,
Comme nous sommes en mai, il est désormais possible de traiter les
archives du mois de avril 2023 des listes francophones.

N'oubliez bien sûr pas d'ajouter votre nom à la liste des relecteurs
pour que nous sachions où nous en sommes.

Détails du processus de nettoyage du spam sur :

https://wiki.debian.org/I18n/FrenchSpamClean

Jean-Pierre Giraud


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Re: EPSON ET M 1120 new printer: If You can read this, you are using the wrong driver

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 09:02:20AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> 
> Good morning
> 
> The Germans like to do jokes.

1. I am not a German
2. This is not a joke
3. At least one of 1, 2, or 3 is false

Cheers
-- 
t


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(deb-cat) Reemplaçar fitxer de paquet, no repetible

[Narcis Garcia]

Bon dia,

Hi ha un tema pendent a la distribució Debian, que afecta a multitud de 
paquets: Els fitxers de configuració personalitzables no haurien de 
venir MAI inclosos en el paquet, sinó que només la versió dels valors 
predeterminats. Això hauria de formar part de la «Debian Policy».


Per exemple, un paquet sol portar els fitxers:
/usr/bin/programa
/etc/programa/parametres.conf
Però això és el què hauria de portar per anar bé:
/usr/bin/programa
/etc/programa/predeterminats.conf
I el fitxer «predeterminats.conf» portar una línia com:
include "personalitzacio-local.conf"

Com a molt, el programet «postinst» del paquet podria portar aquestes 
instruccions:

if [ ! -f /etc/programa/personalitzacio-local.conf ] ; then
echo "# default values and comments are at predeterminats.conf
# Write here your local customization
" > /etc/programa/personalitzacio-local.conf
fi

COM RESOLC AMB ELS PAQUETS MAL DISSENYATS:
$ sudo dpkg-divert --local --rename --add /etc/programa/parametres.conf
$ sudo cp -a parametres.conf.distrib /etc/programa/parametres.conf
D'aquesta manera puc personalitzar parametres.conf sense por que les 
actualitzacions me'l trepitgin.


EL MEU PROBLEMA D'AVUI
Necessito personalitzar /etc/logrotate.d/cups-daemon
Si el «diversifico» amb dpkg-divert el què em passa és que queden 2 
fitxers que carregarà logrotate:

/etc/logrotate.d/cups-daemon
/etc/logrotate.d/cups-daemon.distrib
I aleshores el logrotate em dona error de què hi ha continguts duplicats 
que no ho poden ser.


El què hauria de fer l'empaquetador de «cups-daemon» és reemplaçar:
/etc/logrotate.d/cups-daemon
Per:
/etc/cups/cups-daemon.logrotate
I aleshores que el «postinst» només hi faci un enllaç simbòlic:
/etc/logrotate.d/cups-daemon -> /etc/cups/cups-daemon.logrotate


Però, donada la situació actual amb Debian Stable, què puc fer per a 
personalitzar un fitxer de logrotate sense que me'l trepitgi una 
actualització?



Gràcies.
--

Narcis Garcia

__
I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't 
masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator 
should fix this against automated addresses collectors.

AW: EPSON ET M 1120 new printer: If You can read this, you are using the wrong driver

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good morning

The Germans like to do jokes.

Thank You
Regards
Sophie



Von: to...@tuxteam.de
Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Mai 2023 09:40
Bis: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: EPSON ET M 1120 new printer: If You can read this, you are using 
the wrong driver

On Tue, May 02, 2023 at 11:32:13AM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

[...]

> In
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/2023/03/msg00123.html
> i see 100% non-Hanlon opinions including a "sudo rm -R /" assassination
> attempt.

Murder by a Hanlon razor. Now that would be... something.

I used to be on Hanlon's side; slowly, that one is decaying.
It seems that you were right, after all.

Perhaps this is just a dark tentacle of ChatGPT, probing the
more fringe aspects of human psychology. It's coming from
a Microsoft domain, after all.

Cheers
--
t

Re: Email bodies not show anymore in Evolution Email

[didier gaumet]

Le 04/05/2023 à 20:21, Jim Popovitch a écrit :
[...]

Excellent job Debian team!


+1 Great. Hats down to Debian folks :-)

archive files

[David Christensen]

On 5/4/23 23:46, Jeremy Ardley wrote:

On 5/5/23 14:21, David Christensen wrote:

If the file is a some kind of archive (e.g. tar(1)), both the data
and metadata are inside the tarball and the full-circle results
should be identical.


Not quite. The file times are usually changed in the un-tar
operation. You can usually expect to only have a valid m-time.

In addition, extended attributes such as ACL are not preserved
without some effort.

There is a further problem in that the owner and group values may be 
different between systems


The situation is much worse with NTFS on windows where there are 
alternative data streams and up to 16 timestamps per file per

datastream.



Thank you for the clarification.


Fortunately, I use the same (user) UID's/GID's on all of my (Unix) 
systems, I have not needed ACL's, and simple use of tar(1) has preserved 
the metadata that I do care about (UID, GID, mode bits, mtime, and 
filename).



How does cpio(1) compare?


How about dump(8) and restore(8)?


AIUI dd(1) produces identical backup/ restore results.  Do you know
otherwise?


David

Re: Proper use of checkrestart

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 5:38 AM Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
>
> I have a script that fully updates a machine each night around 4:00
> AM. It also reboots the machine as required.
>
> I noticed Debian has checkrestart. The man page is at
> https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/debian-goodies/checkrestart.8.en.html.
> I want to ensure I understand "Exit Status" correctly:
>
> Normally, the program will exit with error (1) if a non-root user tries
> to run it. Otherwise, it will always exit with error status 0.
>
> If the --terse switch is given, the exit code is 1 when there are
> deleted open files and 0 when there are none. This is intended for
>consumption by Nagios and similar automated monitoring tools.
>
> I think the script should use --terse, as in:
>
> if command -v checkrestart >/dev/null 2>&1;
> then
> if ! checkrestart --terse >/dev/null 2>&1;
> then
> needs_reboot=1
> fi
> fi
>
> I think using an option like --terse is unusual to get an exit code
> that can be used in a script. I want to ensure it is correct.
>
> My question is, is that usage correct?
>
> Thanks in advance.

It looks like --terse alone is not enough. It reports files in use,
even after a reboot:


# checkrestart -v
Found 12 processes using old versions of upgraded files
(2 distinct programs)
[DEBUG] Process / (PID: 486)
List of deleted files in use:
/ (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308922)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308926)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308928)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308929)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308930)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308933)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308936)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 308937)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 309004)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 309009)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Process /usr/sbin/apache2 (PID: 309126)
List of deleted files in use:
/var/lib/php/tmp/.ZendSem.koQtBp (deleted)
[DEBUG] Running: dpkg-query --search / /usr/sbin/apache2
[DEBUG] Reading line from dpkg-query: apache2-bin: /usr/sbin/apache2

[DEBUG] Found package apache2-bin for program /usr/sbin/apache2
(1 distinct packages)
[DEBUG] Running: dpkg-query --listfiles apache2-bin

Of these, 1 seem to contain systemd service definitions or init
scripts which can be used to restart them.
The following packages seem to have definitions that could be used
to restart their services:
apache2-bin:
308922  /usr/sbin/apache2
308926  /usr/sbin/apache2
308928  /usr/sbin/apache2
308929  /usr/sbin/apache2
308930  /usr/sbin/apache2
308933  /usr/sbin/apache2
308936  /usr/sbin/apache2
308937  /usr/sbin/apache2
309004  /usr/sbin/apache2
309009  /usr/sbin/apache2
309126  /usr/sbin/apache2
These are the initd scripts:
service apache2 restart


It looks like `checkrestart -p --terse` is what is needed.

Jeff

Re: Need some advice please.

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 5/5/23 14:21, David Christensen wrote:




If the file is a some kind of archive (e.g. tar(1)), both the data and 
metadata are inside the tarball and the full-circle results should be 
identical.




Not quite. The file times are usually changed in the un-tar operation. 
You can usually expect to only have a valid m-time.


In addition, extended attributes such as ACL are not preserved without 
some effort.


There is a further problem in that the owner and group values may be 
different between systems


The situation is much worse with NTFS on windows where there are 
alternative data streams and up to 16 timestamps per file per datastream.


--
Jeremy
(Lists)

Re: Need some advice please.

[Michel Verdier]

Le 5 mai 2023 zithro a écrit :

> If on USB/external drive, preferably format the drive so it can be read on
> multiple OS. So prefer FAT32/exFAT, and avoid ext4, ZFS, NTFS, APFS, etc.

As I don't need to restore debian on windows I choose to format my
external drive with xfs on encrypted partition

Re: Need some advice please.

[David Christensen]

On 5/4/23 18:37, zithro wrote:

The easiest and fastest way to backup is on DVD/USB/external drive, so 
that you can restore offline.

...
If on USB/external drive, preferably format the drive so it can be read 
on multiple OS. So prefer FAT32/exFAT, and avoid ext4, ZFS, NTFS, APFS, 
etc.



I do not want to further confuse this thread, but feel I must point out 
the fact that when a file is copied from one file system to a different 
file system (backup), the metadata may be translated.  When the file is 
copied back (restore), the metadata may be translated again.  The 
full-circle backup/restore results may not be identical.



If the file is a some kind of archive (e.g. tar(1)), both the data and 
metadata are inside the tarball and the full-circle results should be 
identical.



David