firewalld on Debian 12

[David Mehler]

Hello,

I'm trying to get firewalld going on Debian 12. I'm getting a python
error and I've seen it on google searches but not found a resolution.
Any suggestions welcome. Here's the complete log.
Thanks.
Dave.

root@hostname:/etc/ssh#cat /etc/debian_version
12.0
root@hostname:~#apt install firewalld
Reading package lists... 0%Reading package lists... 100%Reading
package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... 0%Building dependency tree... 0%Building
dependency tree... 50%Building dependency tree... 50%Building
dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... 0% Reading state information... 0%Reading
state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  gir1.2-nm-1.0 ipset iptables libipset13 libnftables1 libnm0 nftables
  python3-attr python3-cap-ng python3-firewall python3-idna
  python3-json-pointer python3-jsonschema python3-nftables
  python3-pyrsistent python3-rfc3987 python3-uritemplate python3-webcolors
Suggested packages:
  python-attr-doc python-jsonschema-doc
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  firewalld gir1.2-nm-1.0 ipset iptables libipset13 libnftables1 libnm0
  nftables python3-attr python3-cap-ng python3-firewall python3-idna
  python3-json-pointer python3-jsonschema python3-nftables
  python3-pyrsistent python3-rfc3987 python3-uritemplate python3-webcolors
0 upgraded, 19 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 2171 kB of archives.
After this operation, 11.4 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
0% [Working]Get:1 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm-proposed-updates/main amd64 libnftables1 amd64
1.0.6-2+deb12u1 [298 kB]
0% [1 libnftables1 0 B/298 kB 0%] 12%
[Working] Get:2 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm-proposed-updates/main amd64 nftables amd64 1.0.6-2+deb12u1
[70.1 kB]
12% [2 nftables 0 B/70.1 kB 0%]   16%
[Working] Get:3 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 libnm0 amd64 1.42.4-1 [436 kB]
16% [3 libnm0 0 B/436 kB 0%]33% [Working]
   Get:4 https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64
gir1.2-nm-1.0 amd64 1.42.4-1 [77.3 kB]
33% [4 gir1.2-nm-1.0 16.4 kB/77.3 kB 21%]
   37% [Working] Get:5
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 python3-attr all
22.2.0-1 [65.4 kB]
37% [5 python3-attr 3928 B/65.4 kB 6%]
 40% [Working] Get:6 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 python3-pyrsistent amd64 0.18.1-1+b3 [60.0 kB]
40% [6 python3-pyrsistent 0 B/60.0 kB 0%]
   43% [Waiting for headers] Get:7
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 python3-jsonschema
all 4.10.3-1 [67.9 kB]
43% [7 python3-jsonschema 0 B/67.9 kB 0%]
   47% [Working] Get:8
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm-proposed-updates/main amd64
python3-nftables amd64 1.0.6-2+deb12u1 [15.3 kB]
47% [8 python3-nftables 0 B/15.3 kB 0%]
   49% [Waiting for headers] Get:9
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 python3-firewall all
1.3.0-1 [131 kB]
49% [9 python3-firewall 0 B/131 kB 0%]
 54% [Waiting for headers] Get:10
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 firewalld all
1.3.0-1 [368 kB]
54% [10 firewalld 0 B/368 kB 0%]69%
[Working] Get:11 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 libipset13 amd64 7.17-1 [67.5 kB]
71% [11 libipset13 41.4 kB/67.5 kB 61%]
   73% [Working] Get:12 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 ipset amd64 7.17-1 [45.7 kB]
73% [12 ipset 16.4 kB/45.7 kB 36%]
75% [Working] Get:13 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 iptables amd64 1.8.9-2 [360 kB]
75% [13 iptables 0 B/360 kB 0%]   90%
[Working] Get:14 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 python3-cap-ng amd64 0.8.3-1+b3 [21.5 kB]
90% [14 python3-cap-ng 0 B/21.5 kB 0%]
 92% [Working] Get:15 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 python3-idna all 3.3-1 [39.4 kB]
92% [15 python3-idna 0 B/39.4 kB 0%]
 94% [Working] Get:16 https://ftp.debian.org/debian
bookworm/main amd64 python3-json-pointer all 2.3-2 [15.1 kB]
94% [16 python3-json-pointer 0 B/15.1 kB 0%]
 96% [Working] Get:17
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 python3-rfc3987 all
1.3.8-2 [8816 B]
96% [17 python3-rfc3987 8816 B/8816 B 100%]
   97% [Waiting for headers]
Get:18 https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64
python3-uritemplate all 4.1.1-2 [10.9 kB]
97% [18 python3-uritemplate 10.9 kB/10.9 kB 100%]
   98% [Working] Get:19
https://ftp.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 python3-webcolors
all 1.11.1-1 [12.7 kB]
98% [19 python3-webcolors 0 B/12.7 kB 0%]
   100% [Working]   

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 16:08:44 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

Hello John,

>That processor was targeted at embedded systems and it made sense in
>some applications.  I don't understand why anyone would put it in a
>desktop.

Cost.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
No rotten apple's gonna spoil my fun
Get The Funk Out - Extreme


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Transport endpoint is not connected

[hlyg]

On 7/8/23 03:00, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you don't have a floppy drive - don't set it up in the BIOS,

If you're running off a disk that's connected via USB - it will be slower
than the same disk directly attached to SATA.

Debian 12 is (probably) no slower than Debian 11 - but it is more up to date.
Some file sizes do get bigger, however, and the steady state is that you
never have quite enough memory as newer releases are made.
Thanks! deb12 has run smoothly on my thin client. but on my more capable 
pc it has usb problem from time to time. i have planed to troubleshoot 
with spare usb hub, but it takes time, and i have little incentive to do 
so as deb11 meets my needs. Thanks anyway!

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Motorola's 68000 line had an internal 32 bit architecture, which made
> the CPU both performant and expensive.

Hmm... it had a (non-internal) 32bit instruction set architecture
(i.e. programmers could directly manipulate 32bit entities), but
internally it manipulated only 16bit at a time (e.g. a 32bit addition was
performed by using twice the 16bit adder).  The external bus sent and
received 16bit as well.

> But a manufacturer of systems could contain the overall cost by using
> 8-bit devices outside of the CPU.

Indeed, for this reason the 16bit bus of the 68000 had some details that
made it easier to interface with 8bit peripherals.

But it still made the cost of the overall system higher than a 68008
since it needed 16bit memory, i.e. twice as many memory chips.

> The first generation was hybrid 16/32 bit internally, and came in
> variants selected for cost vs performance: 8, 16 or 32 bit external bus.

I've never heard of a version of the 68000 with a 32bit external bus.

AFAIK the first CPU with  32bit external bus in the 68k family was the
68020, which was a completely new design released several years later,
not just a "variant".


Stefan

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 23:10:01 +0200 John Hasler  wrote:

> Bret writes:
>
>> With bits and bytes, one strange thing that I remember, is that, in
>> 1985, in Australia, a particular computer was introduced, that had a
>> 32 bit processor with 8 bit buses. It was a Motorola 68008 CPU, and,
>> I could not understand why a company would produce a 32 bit CPU wit
>> 8 bit buses.
>
> That processor was targeted at embedded systems and it made sense in
> some applications.  I don't understand why anyone would put it in a
> desktop.

For the same reason that IBM put the 8088 (an 8086 with an 8-bit bus)
into their original Personal Computer: to save money by interfacing
with existing 8-bit support chips.  In addition, rumour has it that
the 8-bit bus helped cripple the machine enough to not pose a
marketing threat to their other product lines.

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  You can't save the earth
\ /|  unless you're willing to
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  make other people sacrifice.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |-- Dogbert the green consultant

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[gene heskett]

On 7/7/23 17:24, Dan Ritter wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:


With bits and bytes, one strange thing that I remember, is that, in 1985, in
Australia, a particular computer was introduced, that had a 32 bit processor
with 8 bit buses. It was a Motorola 68008 CPU, and, I could not understand
why a company would produce a 32 bit CPU wit 8 bit buses. The computer was
named the Telecom Computerphone, and, it was an oddity in itself.


Compatible parts make for cheaper systems.

In the late 70s and early 80s, most mass-produced systems were 8-bit
microprocessors with an 8-bit bus, connecting to peripherals that assumed
an 8-bit bus.

Motorola's 68000 line had an internal 32 bit architecture, which made
the CPU both performant and expensive. But a manufacturer of systems
could contain the overall cost by using 8-bit devices outside of the
CPU. The first generation was hybrid 16/32 bit internally, and came in
variants selected for cost vs performance: 8, 16 or 32 bit external bus.

The 2nd generation 68030 was 32 bits inside and out, and had a hardware
memory manager, which meant it was the first one that we, sitting here 36
years later, would think of as a system with enough features that we could
reasonably compile software for it. Debian supported 68030s and later
from 2.0 through 4.0, though by that time it was clearly a doomed target.

-dsr-

.
Which could have done better, but debians support of accessory stuff was 
non-existent. I had a set of cd's that put an early Debian Linux on a 
68040 based machine with 64 megs of 32 bit ram on the PP&S board. It did 
not recognize the ram so was running on the 2 megs on the 2090 SCSI 
controller so obviously it spent 98% of the 68000 CPU on the A-2000's 
main board hammering on the swap on a 1Gig seagate drive. It did not 
recognize the 68040 either, so just opening a shell was a 5 minute 
process.  I went back to AmigaDos3.1 as it was usable until the battery 
leaked and ate the motherboard. I built by first Linux box, with a 
400MHz k6 and installed Red Hat 5.0 circa 1998, used the Amiga for a net 
gateway back in dial-up days.  Computing was fun then and I had lots of 
fun demoing to the dos lovers just how blazingly fast the Amiga was 
compared to their dos boxes. It was also a lot faster than the first 
McIntosh's from Apple.  Then the 2 idiots that started Commode Door took 
the accounts receivables to Bermuda for a rum and coke and never came back.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[David Wright]

On Fri 07 Jul 2023 at 16:08:44 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> Bret writes:
> > With bits and bytes, one strange thing that I remember, is that, in
> > 1985, in Australia, a particular computer was introduced, that had a
> > 32 bit processor with 8 bit buses. It was a Motorola 68008 CPU, and, I
> > could not understand why a company would produce a 32 bit CPU wit 8
> > bit buses.
> 
> That processor was targeted at embedded systems and it made sense in
> some applications.  I don't understand why anyone would put it in a
> desktop.

Perhaps be thankful that they did, though:

 "Linus Torvalds has attributed his eventually developing the Linux
  kernel, likewise having pre-emptive multitasking, in part to having
  owned a Sinclair QL in the 1980s. Because of the lack of support,
  particularly in his native Finland, Torvalds became used to writing
  his own software rather than relying on programs written by
  others. In part, his frustration with Minix, on the Sinclair, led,
  years later, to his purchase of a more standard IBM PC compatible on
  which he would develop Linux. In Just for Fun, Torvalds wrote, "Back
  in 1987, one of the selling points of the QL was that it looked
  cool", because it was "entirely matte black, with a black keyboard"
  and was "fairly angular". He also wrote he bought a floppy
  controller so he could stop using microdrives, but the floppy
  controller driver was bad, so he wrote his own. Bugs in the
  operating system, or discrepancies with the documentation, that made
  his software not work properly, got him interested in operating
  systems. "Like any good computer purist raised on a 68008 chip,"
  Torvalds "despised PCs", but decided in fall 1990 to purchase a 386
  custom-made IBM PC compatible, which he did in January 1991."

Cheers,
David.

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 07 Jul 12:59 -0500, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> There is lots of cross-pollination, though. Before the advent of Clang
> there weren't many credible alternatives to the GCC toolchain; I don't
> think any BSD sysadmin worth their salt would renounce using rsync just
> because it's GPL. Conversely, ssh is probably one of the nices gifts
> BSD gave to the GPL folks. PostgreSQL is a wonderful thing and is,
> again, BSD.
> 
> So, thanks to both :)

Oh, absolutely!

What I like about the majority of the Linux ecosystem is that it has a
rather low level of dogma.  To be sure, I prefer Free Software and any
code I've contributed over the years has been under one sort of copyleft
license or another.  Debian, like all of the major distributions, pull
software from many sources.  There is no such thing as a "pure" Linux
distributions as they're all collections from many projects.  Probably
the most dogmatic distributions are Trisquel and Guix but I doubt they
have the NIH attitude I sense from OpenBSD.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Description: PGP signature

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Dan Ritter]

Bret Busby wrote: 
> 
> With bits and bytes, one strange thing that I remember, is that, in 1985, in
> Australia, a particular computer was introduced, that had a 32 bit processor
> with 8 bit buses. It was a Motorola 68008 CPU, and, I could not understand
> why a company would produce a 32 bit CPU wit 8 bit buses. The computer was
> named the Telecom Computerphone, and, it was an oddity in itself.

Compatible parts make for cheaper systems.

In the late 70s and early 80s, most mass-produced systems were 8-bit
microprocessors with an 8-bit bus, connecting to peripherals that assumed
an 8-bit bus.

Motorola's 68000 line had an internal 32 bit architecture, which made
the CPU both performant and expensive. But a manufacturer of systems
could contain the overall cost by using 8-bit devices outside of the
CPU. The first generation was hybrid 16/32 bit internally, and came in
variants selected for cost vs performance: 8, 16 or 32 bit external bus.

The 2nd generation 68030 was 32 bits inside and out, and had a hardware
memory manager, which meant it was the first one that we, sitting here 36
years later, would think of as a system with enough features that we could
reasonably compile software for it. Debian supported 68030s and later
from 2.0 through 4.0, though by that time it was clearly a doomed target.

-dsr-

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[John Hasler]

Bret writes:
> With bits and bytes, one strange thing that I remember, is that, in
> 1985, in Australia, a particular computer was introduced, that had a
> 32 bit processor with 8 bit buses. It was a Motorola 68008 CPU, and, I
> could not understand why a company would produce a 32 bit CPU wit 8
> bit buses.

That processor was targeted at embedded systems and it made sense in
some applications.  I don't understand why anyone would put it in a
desktop.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Synaptic Problem

[gene heskett]

On 7/7/23 15:32, Felix Miata wrote:

Stephen P. Molnar composed on 2023-07-07 15:17 (UTC-0400):


I have just installed Bookworm without any problems.



However, synaptic has developed a problem:


1920x1080 is working now???


Google has not found a solution that works.



I would appreciate suggstions.


It's for a Brother printer, came from Brother's web site. I find my brscan4
installed to /opt/brother/scanner/. Hopefully this can help you find the archive
you downloaded on your Bullseye disk instead of needing to hunt for it on
Brother's website.


I'd not recommend that, but look for the brother install script in his 
old /home/$user/Downloads directory, running that and giving it the 
exact model name of the brother printer, will goto the brother site and 
download the latest version.  But to get it to work at all, may require 
you use the package manager to remove and purge cups-browsed. The cups 
driverless stuff over-rides brothers stuff and the printer is reduced to 
the lowest common version, duplex disappears, tray src selection 
defaults to tray 1, and a color printer becomes black and white. 
Brothers drivers can run the printer to its full capbility.

look for: linux-brprinter-installer-*

If the printer is an MFC, you'll also get the brscan stuff for x-sane. 
And w/o cups-browsed, they Just Work flawlessly.


Or if you goto the brother site, that is the script you will dl first, 
set chom +x and then run from the cli. The version may change which is 
why I starred the line above.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Bret Busby]

On 8/7/23 03:30, mick.crane wrote:

On 2023-07-07 19:19, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


Thr rest, is, as they say...


.."A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch 
to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit 
microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand 
one bit of competition."


I don't know about the bits and bytes but I like the sound of it anyway.
mick



With bits and bytes, one strange thing that I remember, is that, in 
1985, in Australia, a particular computer was introduced, that had a 32 
bit processor with 8 bit buses. It was a Motorola 68008 CPU, and, I 
could not understand why a company would produce a 32 bit CPU wit 8 bit 
buses. The computer was named the Telecom Computerphone, and, it was an 
oddity in itself.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[gene heskett]

On 7/7/23 13:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On Fri Jul  7 09:59:56 2023 fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:

 >> Microsoft for good or bad has made major advances in software

Yup.  Like surveillance, flakiness, and an endless merry-go-round
of forced upgrades into ever-increasing bloatware.

 >> and is responsible for a fair fraction of what we experience in
 >> our Linux world.

And the Taliban is responsible for a fair fraction of what we
experience in our Western world.  So what?

 > true
 > if microsoft had ever produced a decent product
 > linux may not have ever become as popular as it is

"The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck
is the day they make vacuum cleaners."  -- unknown


+5. Thanks for the chuckle of the day Charley.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[debian-user]

jeremy ardley  wrote:
> On 7/7/23 19:28, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> >
> > That may be or not, but is irrelevant. Accurate attribution of
> > quotes is important, IMHO, and not difficult to do. So doubling
> > down on your mistake instead of a simple mea culpa means you move
> > further down in my hierarchy of respect. :(
> >  
> 
> I suspect that my saying Microsoft is not an absolute evil may be
> your issue rather than any (mis?) attribution of quotes.

Did you say something abot Microsoft? I didn't notice.

Re: camera problem seems to be solved

[gene heskett]

On 7/7/23 08:25, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 06/07/2023 18:57, gene heskett wrote:
gene@coyote:~$ findmnt --target /home/gene/Pictures/Saw4Bruce (didn't 
work)

TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS
/home  /dev/md0p1 ext4   rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,stripe=256
gene@coyote:~$ findmnt --target /home/gene/Pictures/Newjuly5dlds (worked)
TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS
/home  /dev/md0p1 ext4   rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,stripe=256


Looks like a purely application issue unrelated to udev, camera, etc.

Can you add more photos to Newjuly5dlds? To factor out camera 
completely, can you copy images withing digikam to these directories? 
Have you inspected folder (album?) properties as it represented by 
digikam? Are these directories contain files that are not images and 
that may contain metadata declaring that some directory should be 
"protected from writing"? Does digikam use akonadi? Does it connect to 
the session-wide instance or it runs another one in container? Maybe the 
application believes that some directories are managed by another 
application and tries to protect you from a conflict.


If you believe that the issue is at a lower level and your way to run 
digikam really uses namespaces, you may try to inspect its environment by


     nsenter --all -t PID_OF_DIGIKAM

e.g. output of "mount". However it is better to compare at first that

     ls -l /proc/$$/ns
     ls -l /proc/PID_OF_DIGIKAM/ns

do not identical

A sledgehammer for obscure issues is attaching to a process by strace.

After all, have you checked ~/.xseession-errors (if it is still in use)?

It appears that digiKam, in its weekly builds of the upcoming 
digKam-8.1.0, has solved the problem. What specifically was changed IDK


What caused all this hoohaw, was an apt upgrade of my bullseye install 
which indicated I should reboot, which I initiated, but when it got to 
to login, my password wasn't good, it just looped back to the login. and 
I then tried a single reboot, and again it was denied bad passwd or 
something.


I had already dl'd the net-install for bookworm and put it on a DVD.  So 
I crawled under the desk and unplugged all the usb's but the keyboard 
and mouse buttons, and unplugged the sata cables to all drives but the 
one I intended to install bookworm on, and installed bookworm. Rebooted, 
worked for the early checks, so I crawled under the desk and hook 
everything up, editing /etc/fstab to add my raid10 of 4 2T Samsung SSD's 
as /home, over the nearly empty /home on the installed disk, another 1T 
Samsung SSD. About 4 or 5 days later I'm staring at a df report, and 
discovered I was actually booted from /dev/sdb!! So I installed gparted, 
and canceled the boot flag on the drive I was booted from, and made sure 
it was set on the bookworm install on /dev.sda. Rebooted, reboot showed 
I was now on the bookworm drive.  Fixed its /etc/fstab to add the raid10 
/home. Rebooted again, and here I am with a whole new class of stuff 
that doesn't work for untraceable reasons as I had zero chance to read 
the Change Logs, and now no damned logs to read.  What the h--- am I 
supposed to do? hence this discussion.  That's all, something has 
changed how the keyboard buffer is handled, so now, when I'm working in 
OpenSCAD which I run in 3 workspaces when designing something to print, 
I must pause between keystrokes and wait for everything in the bottom 
bar to update, else the are you sure requestor's for cura opens 
completely behind the shell everything in that workspace was launched 
from, no way to bring it fwd to visibility, so root session of htop to 
kill the konsole, killing everything it started, doing everything all 
over again from the gitgo. So in saving a part as a 3mf I wind up 
wasting 30 seconds waiting on plasma or whatever its called, in the 
sequence of move to next workspace, clear cura's build plate, then find 
and load the just saved 3mf, slice it, save it, wait for plasma to draw 
the toolbar, then click on the save in the toolbar and finally get the 
whereto requestor that should have popped up without any interference 
from plasma. And if the next click isn't in that requester, the 
requester is moved to invisibility behind the konsole and I must kill 
the konsole and start all over again.  If I wait 3 or 4 seconds for the 
bottom toolbar to be updated, it all Just Works, but the enforced wait 
for something that was instantaneous in buster & bullseye is very 
distracting to an 88 yo's thought processes, leading inevitably to 
mistakes that result in restarting that whole workspace scenario.


Then I move to the third workspace where a copy of mc is first 
refreshed, then used to copy the sliced file to the printer over my 
local network.


Eye candy is fine, but eye candy that gets in the way is not welcome. 
And this gets in the way. Is there a configure option menu to do away 
with some parts of it? Just lengthening the double click another 200 ms 
would help, a lot. It is now so short that my ancient 

Re: Synaptic Problem

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 7/7/23, Felix Miata  wrote:
> Stephen P. Molnar composed on 2023-07-07 15:17 (UTC-0400):
>
>> I have just installed Bookworm without any problems.
>
>> However, synaptic has developed a problem:
>
> 1920x1080 is working now???
>
>> Google has not found a solution that works.
>
>> I would appreciate suggstions.
>
> It's for a Brother printer, came from Brother's web site. I find my brscan4
> installed to /opt/brother/scanner/. Hopefully this can help you find the
> archive
> you downloaded on your Bullseye disk instead of needing to hunt for it on
> Brother's website.


Am having a can-do kind of day so I took a poke at it, too. Searched
for brscan4 alone:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/brscan4

Gives some insight into package interoperability. It became instantly
clear this was about printers.

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with glee at Retirement, Day the First *

Re: Synaptic Problem

[Felix Miata]

Stephen P. Molnar composed on 2023-07-07 15:17 (UTC-0400):

> I have just installed Bookworm without any problems.

> However, synaptic has developed a problem:

1920x1080 is working now???

> Google has not found a solution that works.

> I would appreciate suggstions.

It's for a Brother printer, came from Brother's web site. I find my brscan4
installed to /opt/brother/scanner/. Hopefully this can help you find the archive
you downloaded on your Bullseye disk instead of needing to hunt for it on
Brother's website.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Synaptic Problem

[Joe]

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 15:17:57 -0400
"Stephen P. Molnar"  wrote:

> I have just installed Bookworm without any problems.
> 
> However, synaptic has developed a problem:
> 
> Google has not found a solution that works.
> 
> I would appreciate suggstions.
> 
>
Would you maybe consider telling us what the problem is?

-- 
Joe

Re: Synaptic Problem

[Andy Smith]

Hi Stephen,

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 03:17:57PM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> I have just installed Bookworm without any problems.
> 
> However, synaptic has developed a problem:
> 
> Google has not found a solution that works.
> 
> I would appreciate suggstions.

My main suggestion is that you describe the problem in full,
extreme, maniacal detail such that you sweat blood and tears over
how much detail you have written, go to bed and have nightmares over
whether you have maybe gone too far with the detail, wake up
screaming at 4am bathed in cold sweat but resolve that, no, more
detail yet is required, so you go forth and you tell us what you
did, what happened, what you expected to happen, and everything
else.

Because right now what we are working with is "on Debian 12 I ran
synaptic and there was a problem and that problem did not have a
solution when I entered an unspecified query about it on Google."

That's what you gave us.

Come on, man. No one should have to be saying this.

Regards,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[mick.crane]

On 2023-07-07 19:19, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


Thr rest, is, as they say...


.."A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch 
to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit 
microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand 
one bit of competition."


I don't know about the bits and bytes but I like the sound of it anyway.
mick

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[Reco]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 06:26:28PM +0100, Mick Ab wrote:
> The error messages were of the form :-
> 
>   "/dev/mapper/vgpcname-root contains a file system with errors, check
> forced.
>Inodes that were a part of a corrupted orphan linked lost found.
>/dev/mapper/vgpcname-root : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck
> manually.(i.e .,
>without -a or -p options). fsck exited with status code 4. The root
>filesystem on /dev/mapper/vgpcname-root requires a manual fsck
> 
> There is then a flashing prompt after "(initramfs)".

So, first things first, it's not "before reboot".
It's "during the boot". And note that initramfs ran fsck, but it failed.

Second, yes, that particular filesystem is indeed required fsck.


> The following command was thus run :-
> sudo fsck -y /dev/mapper/vgpcname-root
> The PC could then be rebooted.

You've got it wrong here again.
During initramfs stage root filesystem is mounted readonly.
This allows it to be checked by fsck, without causing an additional
damage.
And, since it's a root filesystem, it's *required* to reboot after the
fsck.


> The file system is ext4.

Thanks. It's a rare sight these days that people actually answer all the
questions they're asked.

Now, assuming you're using a stock Debian kernel, it's unlikely to be a
kernel bug. Likewise, we can exclude some "user-firendly" software (I'm
looking at you, GNOME).

Which leaves us with the hardware fault.

Hate to bring it to you, but additional information would be welcome.
You're using lvm2, it's obvious.
But which drive your physical volume resides on?
I.e. make, model, SMART attributes if any?

Reco

Synaptic Problem

[Stephen P. Molnar]

I have just installed Bookworm without any problems.

However, synaptic has developed a problem:

Google has not found a solution that works.

I would appreciate suggstions.

Thanks in advance.

--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
https://insilicochemistry.net
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype:  smolnar1

Re: Transport endpoint is not connected

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 12:34:48AM -0400, hlyg wrote:
> deb12 is slow, it complains floppy error. in bios floppy drive is set to
> 1.44M though i have no floppy drive. this isn't problem for deb10/11. it's
> easy to correct bios setting but i am afraid deb12 is still slow.
> 

If you don't have a floppy drive - don't set it up in the BIOS,

If you're running off a disk that's connected via USB - it will be slower
than the same disk directly attached to SATA.

Debian 12 is (probably) no slower than Debian 11 - but it is more up to date.
Some file sizes do get bigger, however, and the steady state is that you
never have quite enough memory as newer releases are made.

> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: scsi 4:0:0:0: Direct-Access USB  SanDisk
> 3.2Gen1 1.00 PQ: 0 ANSI: 6
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdc] 60088320 512-byte logical
> blocks: (30.8 GB/28.7 GiB)
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdc] Write Protect is off
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdc] Mode Sense: 43 00 00 00
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdc] Write cache: disabled, read
> cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel:  sdc: sdc1 sdc2 sdc3
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: random: crng init done
> ...
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 0 op 0x0:(READ) flags
> 0x0 phys_seg 1 prio class 2
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: floppy: error 10 while reading block 0
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 0 op 0x0:(READ) flags
> 0x0 phys_seg 1 prio class 2
> Jul 06 23:50:00 bw kernel: floppy: error 10 while reading block 0
>

Changed to respond to the list first
With every good wish, 

Andy Cater

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[John Covici]

You need to boot into a rescue disk like grml and then you can fix your file
systems from there.
On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:30:50 -0400,
Andy Smith wrote:
> 
> Hi Mick,
> 
> On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 06:28:55PM +0100, Mick Ab wrote:
> > Sorry, I should have said that fsck was manually run on the root
> > file system (as advised by the error message) each time that the
> > error occurred. On both occasions, the system was rebooted okay.
> 
> If you're actually interested in getting advice then I recommend
> that you start giving more information such as what actual messages
> you see, what exactly you did, how you did it and what result you
> got when you did.
> 
> Regards,
> Andy
> 
> -- 
> https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[Andy Smith]

Hi Mick,

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 06:28:55PM +0100, Mick Ab wrote:
> Sorry, I should have said that fsck was manually run on the root
> file system (as advised by the error message) each time that the
> error occurred. On both occasions, the system was rebooted okay.

If you're actually interested in getting advice then I recommend
that you start giving more information such as what actual messages
you see, what exactly you did, how you did it and what result you
got when you did.

Regards,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[tomas]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 08:43:04AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2023 07 Jul 08:13 -0500, jeremy ardley wrote:
> > 
> > My error:
> > 
> > I should have said
> > 
> > "Linux is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but not
> > much like Unix. "
> 
> If you mean MS Windows NT and later, it apparently owes much to VMS and
> OS/2.  Certainly, some POSIX support was added along the way as well,
> but I don't think that other than market speak 20+ years ago, Windows
> NT+ was intended to be a Unix implementation.

Right: NT (and NTFS) was brought over from DEC by Dave Cutler (yet another
thing Microsoft didn't invent). And Cutler *hated* UNIX. So he might get
angry if someone compares NT to UNIX :-)

NT was micro-kernel-ish (actually inspired by Mach, so it shares some
ancestry with OS/X and Hurd), until Microsoft dumped all that graphic
goodnes into it.

Thr rest, is, as they say...

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[tomas]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 04:59:48PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 7/7/23 16:51, jeremy ardley wrote:
> > 
> > On 7/7/23 16:30, Bret Busby wrote:
> > > Microsoft didn't invent anything.
> > 
> > 
> 
> I did not post that statement as the original poster of that statement.

Oh, goody. No, that was me. And I stand by what I say. I did follow
the whole thing all along: the second platform I wrote C for was
Windows 3.1. The first was an AT&T microport of UNIX, the third was
HP/UX (ISTR around 9).

Cheers
-- 
t


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Description: PGP signature

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[tomas]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 11:08:57AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2023 07 Jul 09:12 -0500, BRN wrote:
> > I could be accused of nitpicking here, however; I'd suggest that GNU was
> > inspired by the original UNIX rather than being a clone.  A clone in
> > the original biological context refers to an exact genetic copy - "byte
> > for byte" if you like.
> 
> That is probably why the term "bug-for-bug" came about as
> "byte-for-byte" would prove quite problematic in a copyright dispute.
> 
> > As for the *BSDs; OpenBSD most certainly does *not* rely on a GNU
> > framework.
> 
> Indeed, most of the work on BSDs these days is to excise as much GNU
> from their systems as they can (I don't follow their development
> closely, it's just the impression I get).

There is lots of cross-pollination, though. Before the advent of Clang
there weren't many credible alternatives to the GCC toolchain; I don't
think any BSD sysadmin worth their salt would renounce using rsync just
because it's GPL. Conversely, ssh is probably one of the nices gifts
BSD gave to the GPL folks. PostgreSQL is a wonderful thing and is,
again, BSD.

So, thanks to both :)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Fri Jul  7 09:59:56 2023 fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:

>> Microsoft for good or bad has made major advances in software

Yup.  Like surveillance, flakiness, and an endless merry-go-round
of forced upgrades into ever-increasing bloatware.

>> and is responsible for a fair fraction of what we experience in
>> our Linux world.

And the Taliban is responsible for a fair fraction of what we
experience in our Western world.  So what?

> true
> if microsoft had ever produced a decent product
> linux may not have ever become as popular as it is

"The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck
is the day they make vacuum cleaners."  -- unknown

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  Microsoft is not
\ /|  a necessary evil.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  Microsoft is not necessary.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |-- Ted Nelson (paraphrased)

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[Mick Ab]

On 18:10, Fri, 7 Jul 2023 Mick Ab 
> On 16:22, Fri, 7 Jul 2023 Andy Smith  >
> > Hi Mick,
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 04:01:23PM +0100, Mick Ab wrote:
> > > Twice, when trying to reboot my PC, I have had error messages which
> > > indicate the root file system is corrupted and needs the manual use
of fsck
> > > to fix the root file system before a reboot can be done.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts please as to what might cause the above problem ?
> >
> > It's something that happened in the past so difficult to tell. You
> > will keep getting the message until you run fsck to fix it. You did
> > not say whether you had done that so I'll assume not.
> >
> > I would be booting into a live or rescue environment and running
> > fsck -n first to see what it will do, before running a real fsck.
> > Also have backups.
> >
> > Most likely thing is that fixes it and you have no further
> > problems. If it keeps happening to you, however, then this will need
> > more investigation.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Andy
> >
> > --
> > https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
>
> Sorry, I should have said that fsck was manually run on the root file
system (as advised by the error message) each time that the error occurred.
On both occasions, the system was rebooted okay.
>
> I am concerned that this error might keep recurring, so am keen to find
out what is causing this error.

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[Mick Ab]

On 16:39, Fri, 7 Jul 2023 Reco 
> On July 7, 2023 6:01:23 PM GMT+03:00, Mick Ab <
recoverymail123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Twice, when trying to reboot my PC, I have had error messages which
> >indicate the root file system is corrupted and needs the manual use of
fsck
> >to fix the root file system before a reboot can be done.
> >
>
> Typically,  running fsck requires an unmounted filesystem (or at least
readonly one). Achieving this before the reboot is a pretty hard trick.
>
> Thus, more information is needed. What does the message says exactly?
What is the type (ext4, xfs, whatever) of the problematic filesystem?
>
> >Any thoughts please as to what might cause the above problem ?
>
> A hardware fault. A kernel bug. Overprotective software.
> Could be anything.
>
> Reco
> Hi.
>

The error messages were of the form :-

  "/dev/mapper/vgpcname-root contains a file system with errors, check
forced.
   Inodes that were a part of a corrupted orphan linked lost found.
   /dev/mapper/vgpcname-root : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck
manually.(i.e .,
   without -a or -p options). fsck exited with status code 4. The root
   filesystem on /dev/mapper/vgpcname-root requires a manual fsck

There is then a flashing prompt after "(initramfs)".

The following command was thus run :-

sudo fsck -y /dev/mapper/vgpcname-root

The PC could then be rebooted.

The file system is ext4.

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 07 Jul 09:12 -0500, BRN wrote:
> I could be accused of nitpicking here, however; I'd suggest that GNU was
> inspired by the original UNIX rather than being a clone.  A clone in
> the original biological context refers to an exact genetic copy - "byte
> for byte" if you like.

That is probably why the term "bug-for-bug" came about as
"byte-for-byte" would prove quite problematic in a copyright dispute.

> As for the *BSDs; OpenBSD most certainly does *not* rely on a GNU
> framework.

Indeed, most of the work on BSDs these days is to excise as much GNU
from their systems as they can (I don't follow their development
closely, it's just the impression I get).

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Description: PGP signature

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[Reco]

On July 7, 2023 6:01:23 PM GMT+03:00, Mick Ab  
wrote:
>Twice, when trying to reboot my PC, I have had error messages which
>indicate the root file system is corrupted and needs the manual use of fsck
>to fix the root file system before a reboot can be done.
>

Typically,  running fsck requires an unmounted filesystem (or at least readonly 
one). Achieving this before the reboot is a pretty hard trick.

Thus, more information is needed. What does the message says exactly? What is 
the type (ext4, xfs, whatever) of the problematic filesystem?

>Any thoughts please as to what might cause the above problem ?

A hardware fault. A kernel bug. Overprotective software.
Could be anything.

Reco
Hi.

Re: Corrupt root filesystem

[Andy Smith]

Hi Mick,

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 04:01:23PM +0100, Mick Ab wrote:
> Twice, when trying to reboot my PC, I have had error messages which
> indicate the root file system is corrupted and needs the manual use of fsck
> to fix the root file system before a reboot can be done.
> 
> Any thoughts please as to what might cause the above problem ?

It's something that happened in the past so difficult to tell. You
will keep getting the message until you run fsck to fix it. You did
not say whether you had done that so I'll assume not.

I would be booting into a live or rescue environment and running
fsck -n first to see what it will do, before running a real fsck.
Also have backups.

Most likely thing is that fixes it and you have no further
problems. If it keeps happening to you, however, then this will need
more investigation.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Corrupt root filesystem

[Mick Ab]

Twice, when trying to reboot my PC, I have had error messages which
indicate the root file system is corrupted and needs the manual use of fsck
to fix the root file system before a reboot can be done.

Any thoughts please as to what might cause the above problem ?

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[BRN]

jeremy ardley  writes:

> On 7/7/23 21:05, jeremy ardley wrote:
>>
>> On 7/7/23 20:47, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>>> What MS has done has never been relevant to the creation of GNU, X, or
>>> the Linux kernel.
>>
>>
>> Agreed, those technologies were mostly independent of anything
>> Microsoft has done.
>>
>> GNU is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but
>> not much like Unix.
>>
>> Note Windows NT was built to be Posix compliant which is a Unix
>> derived standard.
>>
>> X is a product well left alone by MS.
>>
>> The Linux Kernel is one of several options including at least one
>> GNU kernel. All are designed to run under a GNU framework.
>>
>> One option I've not seen yet is a MS kernel running with a GNU
>> framework. It's entirely feasible, but unlikely to date.
>>
>
> My error:
>
> I should have said
>
> "Linux is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but
> not much like Unix. "
>
> I should also have noted FreeBSD and other clones of Unix that also
> rely on a GNU framework

I could be accused of nitpicking here, however; I'd suggest that GNU was
inspired by the original UNIX rather than being a clone.  A clone in
the original biological context refers to an exact genetic copy - "byte
for byte" if you like.

As for the *BSDs; OpenBSD most certainly does *not* rely on a GNU
framework.

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 07 Jul 08:13 -0500, jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> My error:
> 
> I should have said
> 
> "Linux is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but not
> much like Unix. "

If you mean MS Windows NT and later, it apparently owes much to VMS and
OS/2.  Certainly, some POSIX support was added along the way as well,
but I don't think that other than market speak 20+ years ago, Windows
NT+ was intended to be a Unix implementation.

> I should also have noted FreeBSD and other clones of Unix that also rely on
> a GNU framework

Actually, the BSDs have a rightful claim to be true descendants of AT&T
Unix and not clones or derivatives.

I also have a hard time calling GNU or Linux "clones" as they are
independent work-alike implementations but not bug-for-bug clones of
AT&T Unix or BSD.

Pedants R Us...

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Arno Lehmann]

While I found most of this discussion not very appealing...

Am 07.07.2023 um 15:05 schrieb jeremy ardley:
...
One option I've not seen yet is a MS kernel running with a GNU 
framework. It's entirely feasible, but unlikely to date.



How about this:
  07/07/2023   15:19.32   /home/mobaxterm  uname -a
CYGWIN_NT-10.0-WOW Mitochondrium 3.3.5(0.341/5/3) 2022-06-12 08:16 i686 
GNU/Linux



--
Arno Lehmann

IT-Service Lehmann
Sandstr. 6, 49080 Osnabrück

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[jeremy ardley]

On 7/7/23 21:05, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 7/7/23 20:47, Nate Bargmann wrote:

What MS has done has never been relevant to the creation of GNU, X, or
the Linux kernel.



Agreed, those technologies were mostly independent of anything 
Microsoft has done.


GNU is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but 
not much like Unix.


Note Windows NT was built to be Posix compliant which is a Unix 
derived standard.


X is a product well left alone by MS.

The Linux Kernel is one of several options including at least one GNU 
kernel. All are designed to run under a GNU framework.


One option I've not seen yet is a MS kernel running with a GNU 
framework. It's entirely feasible, but unlikely to date.




My error:

I should have said

"Linux is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but 
not much like Unix. "


I should also have noted FreeBSD and other clones of Unix that also rely 
on a GNU framework

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[jeremy ardley]

On 7/7/23 20:47, Nate Bargmann wrote:

What MS has done has never been relevant to the creation of GNU, X, or
the Linux kernel.



Agreed, those technologies were mostly independent of anything Microsoft 
has done.


GNU is a clone of Unix so a derivative. MS is also a derivative but not 
much like Unix.


Note Windows NT was built to be Posix compliant which is a Unix derived 
standard.


X is a product well left alone by MS.

The Linux Kernel is one of several options including at least one GNU 
kernel. All are designed to run under a GNU framework.


One option I've not seen yet is a MS kernel running with a GNU 
framework. It's entirely feasible, but unlikely to date.

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Kent West]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 4:00 AM Bret Busby  wrote:

> On 7/7/23 16:51, jeremy ardley wrote:
> >
> > On 7/7/23 16:30, Bret Busby wrote:
> >> Microsoft didn't invent anything.
> >
> >
>
> I did not post that statement as the original poster of that statement.
>
> In responding to messages, please properly quote the message, or excerpt
> of the message, to which the response is being made.
>
>
You wrote:

On 7/7/23 12:28, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
> 
>
> Microsoft didn't invent anything.
>
> Yes they did - the highest level of system security - the Blue Screen Of
> Death 
>

Although tomas originally wrote "Microsoft didn't invent anything", when
you quoted him, you lost the quotation markers, so it *looks* like you said
it. jeremy did actually quote what you said, even though you meant it to be
understood as a quotation from another person.


-- 
Kent West<")))><
IT Support / Client Support
Abilene Christian University
Westing Peacefully - http://kentwest.blogspot.com

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 07 Jul 06:54 -0500, fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:
> > Microsoft for good or bad has made major advances in
> > software and is responsible for a fair fraction of what we experience in
> > our Linux world.
> 
> true
> if microsoft had ever produced a decent product
> linux may not have ever become as popular as it is

What MS has done has never been relevant to the creation of GNU, X, or
the Linux kernel.  GNU has always been a project to develop RMS' vision
of a Unix compatible system.  The Linux kernel came about because even
though Linus had access to Minix, Tanenbaum had no interest in applying
the patches Linus, et. al. wanted to apply to make it a more general
system.  Linus was only interested in a Unix he could afford and since
GNU lacked a kernel that is what he focused on.  MS was never part of
the focus regarding the creation of GNU or Linux.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[jeremy ardley]

On 7/7/23 19:28, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:


That may be or not, but is irrelevant. Accurate attribution of quotes
is important, IMHO, and not difficult to do. So doubling down on your
mistake instead of a simple mea culpa means you move further down in my
hierarchy of respect. :(



I suspect that my saying Microsoft is not an absolute evil may be your 
issue rather than any (mis?) attribution of quotes.

Re: camera problem seems to be solved

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/07/2023 18:57, gene heskett wrote:

gene@coyote:~$ findmnt --target /home/gene/Pictures/Saw4Bruce (didn't work)
TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS
/home  /dev/md0p1 ext4   rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,stripe=256
gene@coyote:~$ findmnt --target /home/gene/Pictures/Newjuly5dlds (worked)
TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS
/home  /dev/md0p1 ext4   rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,stripe=256


Looks like a purely application issue unrelated to udev, camera, etc.

Can you add more photos to Newjuly5dlds? To factor out camera 
completely, can you copy images withing digikam to these directories? 
Have you inspected folder (album?) properties as it represented by 
digikam? Are these directories contain files that are not images and 
that may contain metadata declaring that some directory should be 
"protected from writing"? Does digikam use akonadi? Does it connect to 
the session-wide instance or it runs another one in container? Maybe the 
application believes that some directories are managed by another 
application and tries to protect you from a conflict.


If you believe that the issue is at a lower level and your way to run 
digikam really uses namespaces, you may try to inspect its environment by


nsenter --all -t PID_OF_DIGIKAM

e.g. output of "mount". However it is better to compare at first that

ls -l /proc/$$/ns
ls -l /proc/PID_OF_DIGIKAM/ns

do not identical

A sledgehammer for obscure issues is attaching to a process by strace.

After all, have you checked ~/.xseession-errors (if it is still in use)?

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[fxkl47BF]

> Microsoft for good or bad has made major advances in
> software and is responsible for a fair fraction of what we experience in
> our Linux world.

true
if microsoft had ever produced a decent product
linux may not have ever become as popular as it is

Re: Where is zenmap?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 01:30:27PM +0200, Hans wrote:
> does someone know, why and when zenmap was put off the repository? 

It would help if you said whether this was a package name, or a filename
inside of another package.

> I did not find a hint in the changelog of nmap, nor an advice 
> at https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nmap[1] .

According to 

it was a binary package built from the "nmap" source package, last
seen in buster.

Given that, I guess you could read through the Debian changelog in the
nmap package, and look for the top (last) instance of "zenmap".  Maybe
it'll give a hint about why it's no longer being built.

My guess is it has something to do with the dropping of python2.

[SOLVED] Re: Where is zenmap?

[Hans]

Am Freitag, 7. Juli 2023, 13:30:27 CEST schrieben Sie:
Answer myself: 

looked int wrong changelog, the Debian-changelog told the drop of zenmap due 
to old python version.

Sorry for the noise.

Best

Hans

> Hi,
> 
> does someone know, why and when zenmap was put off the repository?
> 
> I did not find a hint in the changelog of nmap, nor an advice
> at https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nmap[1] .
> 
> Zenmap disapperead sme years ago, but I totally missed it (as I am using
> nmap in commandline). However, I would like to know, if zenmap is still
> usable today, why it was removed and when.
> 
> Oh, and I know about qt-based nmapsi4, but it looks, it has fewer options
> than zenmap (I may fail).
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> [1] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nmap

Where is zenmap?

[Hans]

Hi,

does someone know, why and when zenmap was put off the repository? 

I did not find a hint in the changelog of nmap, nor an advice 
at https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nmap[1] .

Zenmap disapperead sme years ago, but I totally missed it (as I am using nmap 
in 
commandline). However, I would like to know, if zenmap is still usable today, 
why it was 
removed and when.

Oh, and I know about qt-based nmapsi4, but it looks, it has fewer options than 
zenmap (I 
may fail).

Best regards

Hans


[1] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nmap

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[debian-user]

jeremy ardley  wrote:
> On 7/7/23 16:59, Bret Busby wrote:
> >> On 7/7/23 16:30, Bret Busby wrote:  
> >>> Microsoft didn't invent anything.  
> >
> > I did not post that statement as the original poster of that
> > statement.   
> 
> Your comment about  BSOD strongly suggests you agree with the
> sentiment.

That may be or not, but is irrelevant. Accurate attribution of quotes
is important, IMHO, and not difficult to do. So doubling down on your
mistake instead of a simple mea culpa means you move further down in my
hierarchy of respect. :(

Re: Deactivating and Reactivating the display of a NUC 13

[Stefan Schumacher]

Sorry, forgot to mention that: It did move with the USB-C-Cable. It's
a standard Amazon Basic 0,9m USB-C-to-DP-Cable, bought quite recently.


Am Do., 6. Juli 2023 um 18:18 Uhr schrieb :
>
> Stefan Schumacher  wrote:
> > I have exchanged the connections - one NUC from HDMI to USB-C and the
> > other from USB-C to HDMI.  The problem persists.
> Yes, but did it stay with the NUC or move with the cable?
>

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[jeremy ardley]

On 7/7/23 16:59, Bret Busby wrote:

On 7/7/23 16:30, Bret Busby wrote:

Microsoft didn't invent anything.





I did not post that statement as the original poster of that statement. 



Your comment about  BSOD strongly suggests you agree with the sentiment.

I reiterate. Microsoft for good or bad has made major advances in 
software and is responsible for a fair fraction of what we experience in 
our Linux world.


My view is that much of what Microsoft produces is plain awful, mainly 
on commercial grounds, but a lot of what they have produced is highly 
influential and relevant to the Linux community.


The latest Microsoft incursion is Visual Studio Code. It's a real 
innovation. If you are a Linux Developer and not competent in using it 
you will shortly be consigned to history. Now add in ChatGPT (a 
Microsoft product) and you have the road-map of most software generation 
for Linux as well as Microsoft for the next five years.


Jeremy

(Native language English, Variant Australian, Uses GPT4 and VSCode)

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[hlyg]

On 7/7/23 10:14, Charles Curley wrote:


What, you couldn't figure that hlyg is not a master of the English
language from his|her|its sentence structure and vocabulary?

Furthermore, this is a world-wide list. We get all levels of English
mastery here, and courtesy calls for not assuming mastery.

Finally, even experts in a language can err and use the wrong word from
time to time.

Thank Charles! we all make mistakes. Bret's argument against deb12 is 
that we shall not forget Ian.


i think it's quite possible that Ian in heaven will agree to let his 
wife represent him so that debian users can save a little time in typing

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Bret Busby]

On 7/7/23 16:51, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 7/7/23 16:30, Bret Busby wrote:

Microsoft didn't invent anything.





I did not post that statement as the original poster of that statement.

In responding to messages, please properly quote the message, or excerpt 
of the message, to which the response is being made.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[jeremy ardley]

On 7/7/23 16:30, Bret Busby wrote:

Microsoft didn't invent anything.



This is highly off topic, but Microsoft 'invented' a lot of stuff much 
in the say way that many GNU developers 'invented' stuff.


This is a process of continual adaptation of existing software and 
methodology. In the Microsoft case a lot if that was bought in, but a 
lot was independently developed internally.


Specifically Windows NT was a custom evolution of several operating 
systems including VMS. FWIW I think the core Microsoft NT OS is not that 
bad a design.


The Microsoft Windows model was evolved from earlier Xerox software and 
provides at the very base a decent GDI programmer model. The look and 
feel of Windows was then adopted by the likes of Gnome - but not the 
clean API and graphic engine model.


As an aside, one of the really good decisions of Microsoft was to steer 
clear of the X server model. X-server alone has hampered Linux GUI 
development for decades now.


And, for reference, I use Windows when I have to and prefer Debian in a 
Mate environment. I'd be an awful lot happier if X on Linux died a well 
deserved death. I also have a lot of experience developing GUI 
applications on Windows, X-Windows, and custom hardware.



Jeremy

(Native language English, variant Australian)

Re: Compatibility with Dell PowerEdge R250

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 09:40:33AM +0300, Hassen Ibrahim wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I just purchased a Dell PowerEdge R250 server and was wondering if debian
> 10 is compatible with this server. The server has an Intel Xeon E-2334
> processor, 32GB RAM and 6TB storage. I'll be looking forward to hearing
> from you.
> 
> Best regards
> Hassen Mulugeta

Hi 

That should be fine: is there any reason specifically why you must use 
Debian 10 since this is now beyond end of life and is supported only
by the LTS team (and will be out of support by them within a year)?

It might be better to use Debian 12 (Bookworm)

See also https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases#Production_Releases

With every good wish,  as ever,

Andy Cater

Re: why bookworm isn't called deb12?

[Bret Busby]

On 7/7/23 12:28, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:



Microsoft didn't invent anything.

Yes they did - the highest level of system security - the Blue Screen Of 
Death - if a computer is made completely inaccessible, then it cannot be 
breached. Hence, the Blue Screen of Death is the highest level of system 
security, invented by Microsoft...


:)

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..